INFO-VAX Fri, 14 Nov 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 616 Contents: Re: AlphaServer 8400 for Trade Re: AlphaServer 8400 for Trade DECserver 716 configuration Re: DECserver 716 configuration Re: DECserver 716 configuration Re: DECserver 716 configuration Re: DECserver 716 configuration Re: DECserver 716 configuration Re: DECserver 716 configuration RE: EDT: inserting special characters RE: EDT: inserting special characters Re: EFi firmware revision infos from DCL Re: Emulation Re: Emulation Re: Emulation Re: Emulation Looking for NEWSRDR that supports authentication Re: Looking for NEWSRDR that supports authentication Re: Most impressive VAX installations Re: Most impressive VAX installations Re: Peek&Spy anyone ? Re: Seagate ST31051N on MicroVAX 3100 Re: Seagate ST31051N on MicroVAX 3100 Re: Seagate ST31051N on MicroVAX 3100 Re: Seagate ST31051N on MicroVAX 3100 Re: Seagate ST31051N on MicroVAX 3100 Re: Seagate ST31051N on MicroVAX 3100 Re: strange disk state Re: strange disk state VMS, HP and the recession Re: VMS, HP and the recession Re: VMS, HP and the recession Re: VMS, HP and the recession ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:54:21 -0800 (PST) From: H Vlems Subject: Re: AlphaServer 8400 for Trade Message-ID: <1c6f1d68-25e0-4e9b-aa4a-9384d5214f41@e38g2000prn.googlegroups.com> On 13 nov, 18:08, Dennis Grevenstein wrote: > In comp.sys.dec Galen wrote: > > > > > If I recall correctly--and it's been a long time, so I may be > > inaccurate about the details--good modern compilers (since, maybe, the > > early 1990's?) may optimize away much or all of a simple benchmark > > like dhrystone or whetstone, rendering them, in effect, a great big no- > > op. If so you don't really get a measurement that will help predict > > the performance of real applications. Also, modern processors may fit > > most or all of these small benchmark applications into high speed > > cache or use other hardware features that render the old benchmarks > > less than useless. And how do multiple processors > > That's just my point. You can't predict how an 11/750 might > score on SPEC. It wouldn't be a fair comparison, because modern > benchmarks are made to show differences between modern computers. > If an old benchmark doesn't move enough data to go beyond the > CPU cache on modern machines, that's fine, because old machines > don't have a cache like that and that's one reason why they are > slower. It all depends on what kind of an application you are > thinking about. You can't say that an AS8400 is X times faster > than an 11/750. For whom? For a single user editing a text file > with vi or for a programmer who can use the entire machine for > serious number crunching? > In the end, it's only a useless number, but you could say that > the newer machine can do the same work much faster than the old > machine. If you want to make that comparision, stick to the old > type of work that the old machine was built to do. > > Dennis > > -- > Don't suffer from insanity... > Enjoy every minute of it. All these tests tried to do is come up with a performance statistic for a new system that customers could compare to what they already had running in their computer rooms. If your workload was as "average" as the test then you could predict performance gains and possibly get more work done and send more bills to customers. Unfortunately we don't run "average workloads". And I recall applications that ran faster on certain VAX models than on the first Alpha's even when the latter "ran faster'. I wrote a small DCL program that 'computes" VUPS ratings for VAXes. Of course it runs on Alpha's and I ran it on the test Itaniums once. The DCL code produces a number for ALpha and I64 but the significance ought to be rated low. It does not make use of the advantages of these 64 bit systems. A microVAX II, a VAX 11/780 and a VAX 8200 have approximately the same rating (0.9, 1.0 and 1,0 VUPS). For heavy network traffic (10BASE5 remember) I'd certainly prefer the 8200 with its much faster BI bus. The 11/780 was faster than the microVAX II in number crunching but the microVAX had a faster Qbus and could handle graphics. Price (purchase and maintenance) and application decided what was "best" and certainly not VUPS. Possibly why the 10000 never became a success and the 4705A is one of the most underrated VAX models (it was fast). Hans ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:05:54 -0700 From: Glen Herrmannsfeldt Subject: Re: AlphaServer 8400 for Trade Message-ID: Galen wrote: (snip) > If I recall correctly--and it's been a long time, so I may be > inaccurate about the details--good modern compilers (since, maybe, the > early 1990's?) may optimize away much or all of a simple benchmark > like dhrystone or whetstone, rendering them, in effect, a great big no- > op. That problem is much older. There is a story from the OS/360 days of a Fortran benchmark that was a very complicated set of statement functions doing complicated calculations. The OS/360 Fortran H compiler expands statement functions inline, and also does constant expression evaluation. The particular benchmark compiled very slow and ran very fast. The compiler evaluated the whole thing down to one constant and a WRITE statement. > If so you don't really get a measurement that will help predict > the performance of real applications. Also, modern processors may fit > most or all of these small benchmark applications into high speed > cache or use other hardware features that render the old benchmarks > less than useless. And how do multiple processors But if you want to compare old processors running old programs the old benchmarks might be the best choice. -- glen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 19:18:50 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: DECserver 716 configuration Message-ID: I have a DECserver 716 that I need to configure a couple of ports so they appear as much like a hardwired terminal line as possible. That is, so that if you plugged in a VTxxx into it and hit return, you'd see a VMS Username: prompt. You login, do your stuff and log out. The terminal is idle then, but if you hit return again you'd see the Username prompt again. In other words, you'd never see the DECserver Local> prompt. I can set up a port Autoconnect with a preferred service, and the first part works fine, but when you log out I get the Local> prompt. I must be missing something, like an automatic port logout or something. What am I missing? Also, has anyone gotten SYSMAN ALF (Automatic Login Facility) to work with DECservers connecting via TCP/IP, to automatically have DECserver XXX Port YYY automatically log in to a VMS account? I can do it with LAT but not TCP/IP. Aside: This DECserver has the maroon digital logo on it, but appears to have been made in 2007. What else is currently being made that still has a digital logo on it? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 20:34:45 +0100 From: Michael Unger Subject: Re: DECserver 716 configuration Message-ID: <6o3e14F1m9lcU1@mid.individual.net> On 2008-11-13 20:18, "Michael Moroney" wrote: > [...] > > I can set up a port Autoconnect with a preferred service, and the first > part works fine, but when you log out I get the Local> prompt. I must > be missing something, like an automatic port logout or something. What > am I missing? It has been quite a long time ago (and a different DECserver model) -- but isn't there a "dedicated server/service" option enforcing connection to a single service only? > [...] Michael -- Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:39:36 -0800 (PST) From: johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: DECserver 716 configuration Message-ID: <773e73b0-f8b6-43a5-b4b7-4c8780665e35@40g2000prx.googlegroups.com> On Nov 13, 7:18=A0pm, moro...@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote: > I have a DECserver 716 that I need to configure a couple of ports so > they appear as much like a hardwired terminal line as possible. =A0That > is, so that if you plugged in a VTxxx into it and hit return, you'd > see a VMS Username: prompt. =A0You login, do your stuff and log out. =A0T= he > terminal is idle then, but if you hit return again you'd see the Username > prompt again. =A0In other words, you'd never see the DECserver Local> pro= mpt. > > I can set up a port Autoconnect with a preferred service, and the first > part works fine, but when you log out I get the Local> prompt. =A0I must > be missing something, like an automatic port logout or something. =A0What > am I missing? > > Also, has anyone gotten SYSMAN ALF (Automatic Login Facility) to work wit= h > DECservers connecting via TCP/IP, to automatically have DECserver XXX Por= t > YYY automatically log in to a VMS account? =A0I can do it with LAT but no= t > TCP/IP. > > Aside: =A0This DECserver has the maroon digital logo on it, but appears t= o > have been made in 2007. =A0What else is currently being made that still > has a digital logo on it? Have you looked at setting the port "dedicated" as well as autoconnect? If you want to discourage/prevent getting to the "local>" prompt there's other important stuff too, but "dedicated" seems to be the starting point, iirc. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:18:54 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: DECserver 716 configuration Message-ID: Michael Moroney wrote: > I have a DECserver 716 that I need to configure a couple of ports so > they appear as much like a hardwired terminal line as possible. That > is, so that if you plugged in a VTxxx into it and hit return, you'd > see a VMS Username: prompt. You login, do your stuff and log out. The > terminal is idle then, but if you hit return again you'd see the Username > prompt again. In other words, you'd never see the DECserver Local> prompt. > > I can set up a port Autoconnect with a preferred service, and the first > part works fine, but when you log out I get the Local> prompt. I must > be missing something, like an automatic port logout or something. What > am I missing? > > Also, has anyone gotten SYSMAN ALF (Automatic Login Facility) to work with > DECservers connecting via TCP/IP, to automatically have DECserver XXX Port > YYY automatically log in to a VMS account? I can do it with LAT but not > TCP/IP. > > Aside: This DECserver has the maroon digital logo on it, but appears to > have been made in 2007. What else is currently being made that still > has a digital logo on it? The DECserver business was sold off to a "DEC Network[ing] Something" a good many years ago. The DEC employees who worked there were mostly sold with the business. Sorry, my memory grows DIMM, and I no longer recall the details. Perhaps someone else recalls more than I do.?.?. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 20:28:02 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: DECserver 716 configuration Message-ID: johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk writes: >Have you looked at setting the port "dedicated" as well as >autoconnect? If you want to discourage/prevent getting to the "local>" >prompt there's other important stuff too, but "dedicated" seems to be >the starting point, iirc. Aha! I think I know what happened. I did try "dedicated" but it didn't seem to help. What I think I did was set the port "dedicated" but then tried to tell it what system to connect to so I did a DEFINE PORT n PREFERRED xxxx, forgetting that I specified xxxx with the DEFINE PORT n DEDICATED command. Well, PREFERRED undoes DEDICATED. Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:17:00 -0800 (PST) From: GraphicDave Subject: Re: DECserver 716 configuration Message-ID: <517ccd26-4167-412d-8602-a6a8a3cceacb@w24g2000prd.googlegroups.com> On Nov 13, 3:18=A0pm, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > Michael Moroney wrote: > > I have a DECserver 716 that I need to configure a couple of ports so > > they appear as much like a hardwired terminal line as possible. =A0That > > is, so that if you plugged in a VTxxx into it and hit return, you'd > > see a VMS Username: prompt. =A0You login, do your stuff and log out. = =A0The > > terminal is idle then, but if you hit return again you'd see the Userna= me > > prompt again. =A0In other words, you'd never see the DECserver Local> p= rompt. > > > I can set up a port Autoconnect with a preferred service, and the first > > part works fine, but when you log out I get the Local> prompt. =A0I mus= t > > be missing something, like an automatic port logout or something. =A0Wh= at > > am I missing? > > > Also, has anyone gotten SYSMAN ALF (Automatic Login Facility) to work w= ith > > DECservers connecting via TCP/IP, to automatically have DECserver XXX P= ort > > YYY automatically log in to a VMS account? =A0I can do it with LAT but = not > > TCP/IP. > > > Aside: =A0This DECserver has the maroon digital logo on it, but appears= to > > have been made in 2007. =A0What else is currently being made that still > > has a digital logo on it? > > The DECserver business was sold off to a "DEC Network[ing] Something" a > good many years ago. =A0The DEC employees who worked there were mostly > sold with the business. =A0Sorry, my memory grows DIMM, and I no longer > recall the details. > > Perhaps someone else recalls more than I do.?.?.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Purchased by/became Digital Networks (DNPG.com). 1/1/2008 They merged with Vnetek Communications.(www.vnetek.com) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:04:46 -0500 From: "William Webb" Subject: Re: DECserver 716 configuration Message-ID: <8660a3a10811131504u2ee3c7ddu2b998d70b1d5913d@mail.gmail.com> ------=_Part_26880_11943044.1226617486530 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 2:18 PM, Michael Moroney < moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> wrote: > I have a DECserver 716 that I need to configure a couple of ports so > they appear as much like a hardwired terminal line as possible. That > is, so that if you plugged in a VTxxx into it and hit return, you'd > see a VMS Username: prompt. You login, do your stuff and log out. The > terminal is idle then, but if you hit return again you'd see the Username > prompt again. In other words, you'd never see the DECserver Local> prompt. > > I can set up a port Autoconnect with a preferred service, and the first > part works fine, but when you log out I get the Local> prompt. I must > be missing something, like an automatic port logout or something. What > am I missing? > > Also, has anyone gotten SYSMAN ALF (Automatic Login Facility) to work with > DECservers connecting via TCP/IP, to automatically have DECserver XXX Port > YYY automatically log in to a VMS account? I can do it with LAT but not > TCP/IP. > > Aside: This DECserver has the maroon digital logo on it, but appears to > have been made in 2007. What else is currently being made that still > has a digital logo on it? You want to set up a DEDICATED as opposed to a PREFERRED service, for one thing. Also, are you doing a DEFINE as well as a SET, and then logging the port? Never used ALF, so I can't help you there. WWWebb, who did more terminal server config for a federal agency than he cares to remember. ------=_Part_26880_11943044.1226617486530 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
 
On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 2:18 PM, Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> wrote:
I have a DECserver 716 that I need to configure a couple of ports so
they appear as much like a hardwired terminal line as possible.  That
is, so that if you plugged in a VTxxx into it and hit return, you'd
see a VMS Username: prompt.  You login, do your stuff and log out.  The
terminal is idle then, but if you hit return again you'd see the Username
prompt again.  In other words, you'd never see the DECserver Local> prompt.

I can set up a port Autoconnect with a preferred service, and the first
part works fine, but when you log out I get the Local> prompt.  I must
be missing something, like an automatic port logout or something.  What
am I missing?

Also, has anyone gotten SYSMAN ALF (Automatic Login Facility) to work with
DECservers connecting via TCP/IP, to automatically have DECserver XXX Port
YYY automatically log in to a VMS account?  I can do it with LAT but not
TCP/IP.

Aside:  This DECserver has the maroon digital logo on it, but appears to
have been made in 2007.  What else is currently being made that still
has a digital logo on it?
 
 
 
  You want to set up a DEDICATED as opposed to a PREFERRED service, for one thing.
 
Also, are you doing a DEFINE as well as a SET, and then logging the port?
 
Never used ALF, so I can't help you there.
 
WWWebb,
who did more terminal server config for a federal agency than he cares to remember.

 
------=_Part_26880_11943044.1226617486530-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:37:26 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: RE: EDT: inserting special characters Message-ID: In article <23C780ECBCFD4A0E951483AB90533F93@CHARONLAP>, "Peter Weaver" writes: > The reason your original "INSERT;s|=0D||w" line did not do what you > wanted is that it was just putting a CR (ASCII 13) character into the > record, it was not creating a new record. You can see what I mean by running > your writing out the file then do a DUMP/RECORD of the file. Then run the > modified macro and DUMP/RECORD the file again. It wasn't doing that; the =0D and =0A were still there after running the macro. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 20:12:02 -0500 From: "Peter Weaver" Subject: RE: EDT: inserting special characters Message-ID: <70AD8C7387634DC9B660D9051C40E1D8@CHARONLAP> > > The reason your original "INSERT;s|=0D||w" line did not do what you > > wanted is that it was just putting a CR (ASCII 13) character into the > > record, it was not creating a new record. You can see what I mean by > running > > your writing out the file then do a DUMP/RECORD of the file. Then run > the > > modified macro and DUMP/RECORD the file again. > > It wasn't doing that; the =0D and =0A were still there after running the > macro. I don't know what happened when you tried it, I tried your code yesterday and I just tried it again and both times it replaced =0D with and =0A with . Did add the two new lines just before the FIND LAST? You might want to check out the contents of you KQP buffer to make sure all the substitute commands look correct in there. Peter Weaver www.weaverconsulting.ca www.openvmsvirtualization.com www.vaxvirtualization.com www.alphavirtualization.com Winner of the 2007 OpenVMS.org Readers' Choice Award for System Management/Performance ------------------------------ Date: 13 Nov 2008 20:14:20 +0100 From: eplan@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: EFi firmware revision infos from DCL Message-ID: <491c8a9c$1@news.langstoeger.at> In article <48eb3bd7$0$26587$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>, "Walter Kuhn" writes: >do I have any chance to get some (or all) firmware revision infos on a >rx6600 via DCL? What information _did_ you get so far? $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT ("CONSOLE_VERSION") Have you tried F$GETENV with random/guessed keywords as well? -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTÖGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail Peter@LANGSTOeGER.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 02:50:35 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: Emulation Message-ID: <%H5Tk.394$4g5.380@nwrddc01.gnilink.net> Wilm Boerhout wrote: > Main, Kerry vaguely mentioned on 12-11-2008 21:37: > >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Wilm Boerhout [mailto:w6.boerhout@planet.nl] >>> Sent: November 12, 2008 12:11 PM >>> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >>> Subject: Re: Emulation >>> >>> Main, Kerry vaguely mentioned on 11-11-2008 22:34: >>> >>> >> >> [snip] >> >>> I have more than 20 years experience with designing and quoting VAX and >>> Alpha solutions. Although (or because?) I'm currently a CHARON >>> reseller, >>> I'm still a professional. My quotes always take the workload into >>> account, and contain the full hardware, software and (transfer) license >>> and service costs. My customers tell me in *all* cases, the payback >>> time >>> is way under 18 months by *their* accounting standards. Why should I >>> tell you otherwise? (Mind you, I'm in Europe. YMMV). Second hand VAX or >>> Alpha is hardly an option here (We have no Island Computers lookalike, >>> so David, if you'd like to go international...). Itanium migation is >>> *always* perceived as too expensive. >>> >>> And Kerry, could you set things straight about the CHARON Transfer >>> licenses (not) being used for SIMH? It was never the intention, but >>> should I assume another position on this issue? IMO the transfer >>> licenses are for CHARON platforms only. >>> >>> /Wilm >> >> >> Wilm, >> >> The issues I raised were generic and not pointed at any individual. >> >> As far as "Itanium migrations always being too expensive", while that >> might be the case for Cust's without the source or code that contains >> a lot of low level arch specific code, or App that is about to retire, >> but that is certainly not the case for many other Customers. >> >> That blanket statement is another example of why I get so cranky when >> Cust's are presented with options that have not been properly >> researched. >> >> Heck, there were some Cust's that ported the majority of their code >> during the 3 day porting workshops held earlier. And this was done on >> entry level Itanium servers that they received free with the workshop. >> >> And btw, I do not pretend to be a license guru, so will leave that >> for others more familiar with the issues. > > > OK, point taken. Virtualization nor migration is *the* solution. > > However "porting" in a three day workshop cannot possibly include > thorough functional testing of the newly compiled and linked > applications. Virtualization with CHARON -seen by our customers as a > simple hardware replacement- is seldom more than a few days work, and > includes all testing, since HP themselves certify and support the CHARON > platform solution as being genuine VAX/Alpha. > > Down from the soapbox, already! Our customers need both our viewpoints > to keep VMS alive for a few more years. Then I'll retire, and you're on > your own... > > /Wilm > As a data point here, I did port 99.9% of a 1.5M line application to Itanium at the porting workshop. Of course I couldn't test a significant portion of it at the workshop, but it was tested since then with only minimal problems found and is now in production. (The part I didn't port at the workshop involved replacing code that parsed Alpha/VAX object libraries with the same for ELF format. Why did it do this in the first place? "Shut up", he explained... :-) :-) Adapting a small chunk of code to understand ELF format seemed at the time easier than re-writing a much larger chunk of code to avoid the whole problem. But if it had used a more sensible method of accomplish its goal in the first place, the port would have been trivial.) BTW, some of the code was originally written in BASIC-PLUS and had been minimally modified while migrating through BP2, VAX BASIC and Alpha BASIC on its way to Itanium. -- John Santos Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:15:31 -0500 From: "William Webb" Subject: Re: Emulation Message-ID: <8660a3a10811131915s7f51f300y5b2e0b8923c2715d@mail.gmail.com> ------=_Part_167_23129039.1226632531566 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 10:07 AM, David Turner, islandco.com < dturner@islandco.com> wrote: > Why not buy 2 Vax 4000-108 with original HP Licenses (from Island of > course) > ??? > You are looking at way less than $50K with cluster licenses, VMS licenses > etc. > This would include shared disk etc. > A lot cheaper than emulation plus it is a REAL Vax ! > They are small too. Same size as an Alpha PWS or XP1000 > > Call or email me > > David > > -- > David B Turner > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > Island Computers US Corp > PO Box 86 > Tybee GA 31328 > > Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332 x201, Mobile x251 > Email: dturner@islandco.com > International & Local: (001)- 404-806-7749 > Fax: 912 786 8505 > Web: www.islandco.com > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > "Tim Wilkinson" wrote in message > news:oZdSk.85907$E41.40889@text.news.virginmedia.com... > > Well tell me how good/bad it is. > > > > At home I play with simh and have never had a problem. However, my > > employers still have a cluster with a pair of 6100 for legacy data and > > about 4 interactive users. It is costing us about =A330,000 per annum t= o > > maintain/run. > > > > They are clustered for resilience but the HSC went down for 1/2 a day > last > > month which is making the internal customer uneasy about reliability. W= e > > did have a spare HSC but the maintenance company insisted in shipping i= n > > parts rather than use an unknown controller that had been sat in a stor= e > > room for 6 years. > > > > So the customer is asking about moving it all to virtualisation. Guess = we > > have oversold our VMWare setup. > > > > > > First issue is that we should be clear of our legal requirement on data > > retention in about 18 months, and the only live app should have been > > replaced by then. Therefore it does not make sense to install new > > dedicated hardware for 18 months. We do not have sources for the two ma= in > > legacy applications and the vendors ceased trading some years ago. Henc= e > I > > have suggested to my employers the emulation route, and would guess the= y > > would opt towards a Charon solution as they are still very wary of open > > source and a perceived lack of support and/or problem ownership etc. > > > > What is the opinion out there in the land of real users, how > > quick/involved is it to set up an emulated VAX system? (I know I did it > > with simh in a couple of hours and I had not touched VMS for at least 1= 0 > > years). What sort of host platform is required in the real world? What > > lessons did the people who have replaced VAX hardware with emulation > > learn? and what mistakes? > > > > I guess if we do opt for an emulation based replacement I would end up > > being the PM. and having raised the issue, suggested a potential soluti= on > > I would be keen to avoid egg on my face if reliability/cost of ownershi= p > > etc. fail to meet expectation. > > > > We have a history of under estimating project costs/ complexity in orde= r > > to make the transition through mahogany row and I am keen that this is > not > > another typical project by identifying all risk/costs early. > > > > Any advice you guys out there can offer would be appreciated. Remember > > this is very early days. No project has yet been identified/sanctioned > > etc. > > > You still got somma them things? I know where they came from. > :-) WWWebb ------=_Part_167_23129039.1226632531566 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline

On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 10:07 AM, David Turner, = islandco.com <dturner@islandco.com> wro= te:
Why not buy 2 Vax 4000-108 with = original HP Licenses (from Island of course)
???
You are looking at w= ay less than $50K with cluster licenses, VMS licenses
etc.
This would include shared disk etc.
A lot cheaper than emulation= plus it is a REAL Vax !
They are small too. Same size as an Alpha PWS o= r XP1000

Call or email me

David

--
David B Turner
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

I= sland Computers US Corp
PO Box 86
Tybee GA 31328

Toll Free: 1-= 877 636 4332 x201, Mobile x251
Email: dturner@islandco.com
International & Local: (001)- 404-806-7749
Fax: 912 786 8505
Web:= www.islandco.com

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
&q= uot;Tim Wilkinson" <tjw@(remove).
twsoft.co.uk> wrote in message
news:oZdSk.85907$E41.40889@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> Well tell me how good/bad it is.
>
>= At home I play with simh and have never had a problem. However, my
>= employers still have a cluster with a pair of 6100 for legacy data and
> about 4 interactive users. It is costing us about =A330,000 per annum = to
> maintain/run.
>
> They are clustered for resilience = but the HSC went down for 1/2 a day last
> month which is making the = internal customer uneasy about reliability. We
> did have a spare HSC but the maintenance company insisted in shipping = in
> parts rather than use an unknown controller that had been sat in= a store
> room for 6 years.
>
> So the customer is askin= g about moving it all to virtualisation. Guess we
> have oversold our VMWare setup.
>
>
> First issue is= that we should be clear of our legal requirement on data
> retention= in about 18 months, and the only  live app should have been
> r= eplaced by then. Therefore it does not make sense to install new
> dedicated hardware for 18 months. We do not have sources for the two m= ain
> legacy applications and the vendors ceased trading some years a= go. Hence I
> have suggested to my employers the emulation route, and= would guess they
> would opt towards a Charon solution as they are still very wary of ope= n
> source and a perceived lack of support and/or problem ownership e= tc.
>
> What is the opinion out there in the land of real users= , how
> quick/involved is it to set up an emulated VAX system? (I know I did i= t
> with simh in a couple of hours and I had not touched VMS for at l= east 10
> years). What sort of host platform is required in the real = world? What
> lessons did the people who have replaced VAX hardware with emulation> learn? and what mistakes?
>
> I guess if we do opt for a= n emulation based replacement I would end up
> being the PM. and havi= ng raised the issue, suggested a potential solution
> I would be keen to avoid egg on my face if reliability/cost of ownersh= ip
> etc. fail to meet expectation.
>
> We have a history= of under estimating project costs/ complexity in order
> to make the= transition through mahogany row and I am keen that this is not
> another typical  project  by identifying all risk/costs earl= y.
>
> Any advice you guys out there can offer would be appreci= ated. Remember
> this is very early days. No project has yet been ide= ntified/sanctioned
> etc.
>
You still got somma them things?  I know where th= ey came from.
 
:-)

WWWebb

------=_Part_167_23129039.1226632531566-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 06:36:24 +0200 From: Mike Rechtman Subject: Re: Emulation Message-ID: emu wrote: > On Nov 12, 11:19 am, Wilm Boerhout wrote: >> But first of all, it's HP who grants the transfer licenses, so they >> should speak up of what their intention is for commercial use (CHARON >> only or any emulator). If it is then contended in a particular >> jurisdiction, let the judge decide. Make some lawyers happy... > > But HP doesn't speak up, so they probably (?) don't care at all, as > long as you paid the transfer license fees. ave a look at: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/sri-charon-vax-emulator.pdf?jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN -- Mike R. http://alpha.mike-r.com/ -- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 06:48:19 +0100 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: Emulation Message-ID: <491d1142$0$8605$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl> Mike Rechtman vaguely mentioned on 14-11-2008 5:36: > ave a look at: > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/sri-charon-vax-emulator.pdf?jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN Yes, I know about this document. It appears to express the intention of HP to using the transfer license on CHARON platforms only (and not SIMH for instance). However, when you actually order a license and read what it says on that (legally binding) paper document, it is as vague as can be, mumbling something about Intel platform. The way I read it, the license document gives far mor leeway to other emulation platforms, while not allowing usage at all on an AMD-based server. Ah, you say a lawyer approved the final document? Now I understand... /Wilm ------------------------------ Date: 13 Nov 2008 21:58:52 GMT From: fcoffey@nyx3.nyx.net (Fred) Subject: Looking for NEWSRDR that supports authentication Message-ID: <1226613531.377792@irys.nyx.net> Good afternoon: I have been scouring google and all sorts of other places including the freeware sites, but cannot seem to find a version of NEWSRDR for my hobbyist AlphaStation that supports authentication as required by my ISP's news server. Some googling in the past reveals that a Mr. VAXMan may have such an animal. I am not totally sold/biased toward NEWSRDR - I would entertain any terminal based news client for OpenVMS that supports authentication. Would someone be able to point me in the right direction? Cheers, Fred ------------------------------ Date: 14 Nov 2008 00:27:45 GMT From: hamilton@news.individual.net (Bradford Hamilton) Subject: Re: Looking for NEWSRDR that supports authentication Message-ID: In article <1226613531.377792@irys.nyx.net>, Fred wrote: >Good afternoon: > >I have been scouring google and all sorts of other places including the >freeware sites, but cannot seem to find a version of NEWSRDR for my >hobbyist AlphaStation that supports authentication as required by my ISP's >news server. Some googling in the past reveals that a Mr. VAXMan may >have such an animal. I am not totally sold/biased toward NEWSRDR - I >would entertain any terminal based news client for OpenVMS that supports >authentication. Someone on EISNER:: has modified NEWSRDR to use authentication. Telnet to eisner.encompasserve.org, and follow the details to register (for free). Then have fun searching through NOTES. :-) Or else try slrn, as I am currently using - the Deathrow cluster has a NOTES thread on how to implement slrn in the "current" VMS environment. Telnet to deathrow.vistech.net for details on how to register (again, for free). Or perhaps the community here will speak up... [...] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:37:05 +0000 (UTC) From: legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) Subject: Re: Most impressive VAX installations Message-ID: [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup] Rich Jordan spake the secret code <3423f919-20c7-4e7a-9bbf-ddc17d31e4bf@35g2000pry.googlegroups.com> thusly: >On Nov 12, 8:49 pm, legalize+jee...@mail.xmission.com (Richard) wrote: >> [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup] >> >> johnwalla...@yahoo.co.uk spake the secret code >> <3c395fbc-074b-419b-9562-482b0b6fe...@q9g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> thusly: >> >> >Meanwhile a Windows licence isn't noticeably cheaper today than it was >> >when Win3.11 first came out in the mid 90s [1] (around $100 or so?), >> >> This is as silly as the memory comparison.  You're not buying a Win 3.11 >> license when you put out that $100 today.  You're getting a *lot* more >> software and functionality for that same $100.  Remember that 3.11 >> doesn't even include TCP/IP. >> -- >> "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download >>       >> >>         Legalize Adulthood! > >But you are buying the 'top of the line' desktop product from that >vendor in both cases. No, you are not. "Top of the line" back then would have been Windows NT (probably 3.something) and today it would be Windows Server 2008. >some) it was 3.11. Now (for some) its Vista Ultimate. It is the same >product adjusted for time, just more features made standard due to >market forces. "more features", which is why its not the same. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download Legalize Adulthood! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:02:44 -0800 (PST) From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: Most impressive VAX installations Message-ID: <41548924-273b-443b-bc03-ce079f1622da@v22g2000pro.googlegroups.com> On Nov 13, 3:37=A0pm, legalize+jee...@mail.xmission.com (Richard) wrote: > [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup] > > Rich Jordan spake the secret code > <3423f919-20c7-4e7a-9bbf-ddc17d31e...@35g2000pry.googlegroups.com> thusly= : > > > > >On Nov 12, 8:49=A0pm, legalize+jee...@mail.xmission.com (Richard) wrote: > >> [Please do not mail me a copy of your followup] > > >> johnwalla...@yahoo.co.uk spake the secret code > >> <3c395fbc-074b-419b-9562-482b0b6fe...@q9g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> thu= sly: > > >> >Meanwhile a Windows licence isn't noticeably cheaper today than it wa= s > >> >when Win3.11 first came out in the mid 90s [1] (around $100 or so?), > > >> This is as silly as the memory comparison. =A0You're not buying a Win = 3.11 > >> license when you put out that $100 today. =A0You're getting a *lot* mo= re > >> software and functionality for that same $100. =A0Remember that 3.11 > >> doesn't even include TCP/IP. > >> -- > >But you are buying the 'top of the line' desktop product from that > >vendor in both cases. > > No, you are not. =A0"Top of the line" back then would have been Windows N= T > (probably 3.something) and today it would be Windows Server 2008. > > >some) it was 3.11. =A0Now (for some) its Vista Ultimate. =A0It is the sa= me > >product adjusted for time, just more features made standard due to > >market forces. > > "more features", which is why its not the same. No worries, just realized I got tempted into a totally off-topic meander of a thread. I'm gone. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:33:05 -0500 From: "Tom Simpson" Subject: Re: Peek&Spy anyone ? Message-ID: You are correct, of course. It was three years ago and things are starting to get fuzzy already... I had not heard of a "WINDOW" feature in the Raxco product before now. If it was in the version we were using, I certainly would have tried it. I don't believe it was. It very well could have been an upgrade that we did not purchase and I was unaware of. -Tom wrote in message news:00A828E1.F8D40AB4@SendSpamHere.ORG... > In article , "Tom Simpson" > writes: >>I used the Raxco product for years and worked fine for most everything. >>However, one thing it did have a problem with was FMS screens, which was >>what our main application used. When monitoring, you could see everything >>that the user saw except what was on the screen before you started your >>monitoring session (which is logical). A control-w would not force the >>FMS > > I thought CTRL-R was refresh under FMS. > > > >>graphics to refresh. If the user moved off the screen to a different >>screen, you would see everything. It was an aggravation but not a >>show-stopper. > > So, you'd like to hear a symphony even though you weren't present > when it was performed and nobody was there to recording it? Hmm. > So, your enhancement request is that CONTRL would prognosticate? > > With the WINDOW portion of the RaxcoSupport product, this too can > be realized. There are myriad other benefits and features using > the WINDOW utility. > > > >>The Peek&Spy product handled the monitoring task much differently could >>display what was on the user's FMS screen before you started your monitor >>session (claimed the vendor). This additional functionality significantly >>increased the resources required to run the application (from my >>discussions >>with the vendor). Unfortunately, I changed jobs before I actually had a >>chance to install and test the Peek&Spy product, but it sounded like would >>solve the one issue we had with Raxco's product. > > No difference. They're buffering all terminal I/O in anticipation > of someone wanting to see some terminal screen's contents prior to > someone actually showing interest in seeing it. This feature comes > at a steeper price both monetarily and as a performance hit. > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional > protection > no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. > (NJSC) > > Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article > outside > of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this > copyright > notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:51:40 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Seagate ST31051N on MicroVAX 3100 Message-ID: <08111312514090_202004DB@antinode.info> From: shadoooo > I acquired two Seagate ST31051N to use it on my VAX boxes. > I used TEST 75 on the MicroVAX 3100, disk erased correctly. Then I > tried to install a VMS 5.5 from > another bootable disk I prepared with STABACKIT, but when it tries to > INIT/MOUNT it, I received a drive fatal error. > I read the ng and found the problem about ARRE ARWE bits, so > downloaded the SCU application, connected the drive to the PC and > disabled these bits. Then I retried with install operation, but it is > the same as before, even with ARRE ARWE disabled. So I tried to > disable also EER (early error recovery) but it's the same. I tried to > mount the disk also on my 4000-100A, but also there no way. I don't > understand why it doesn't work. > Any idea? Maybe I need to redo TEST75 after the bit disable operation? What makes you believe that the disk drives are good (and properly installed, configured, cabled, terminated, ...)? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-info 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:36:00 -0800 (PST) From: shadoooo Subject: Re: Seagate ST31051N on MicroVAX 3100 Message-ID: > What makes you believe that the disk drives are good (and properly > installed, configured, cabled, terminated, ...)? Hello Steven. On PC disks works well. Also in the 3100 I can see it on show dev and TEST 75 (as well TEST E1 on 4000-100A) does the job well. No errors so far. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:37:24 -0800 (PST) From: H Vlems Subject: Re: Seagate ST31051N on MicroVAX 3100 Message-ID: <92529c09-7586-4d36-8659-aae9d3a78632@k1g2000prb.googlegroups.com> On 13 nov, 19:36, shadoooo wrote: > I acquired two Seagate ST31051N to use it on my VAX boxes. > I used TEST 75 on the MicroVAX 3100, disk erased correctly. Then I > tried to install a VMS 5.5 from > another bootable disk I prepared with STABACKIT, but when it tries to > INIT/MOUNT it, I received a drive fatal error. > I read the ng and found the problem about ARRE ARWE bits, so > downloaded the SCU application, connected the drive to the PC and > disabled these bits. Then I retried with install operation, but it is > the same as before, even with ARRE ARWE disabled. So I tried to > disable also EER (early error recovery) but it's the same. I tried to > mount the disk also on my 4000-100A, but also there no way. I don't > understand why it doesn't work. > Any idea? Maybe I need to redo TEST75 after the bit disable operation? I've used several Seagate disks in my 3100's and VAXstation 4000's but this is new to me. And I certainly never had to use a PC to configure a SCSI-2 disk. You did read the appropriate manual, stilla available at the Seagate site: http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/iguides/scsi/67490_c.pdf Some questions: On the 3100, what is the result of the command >>> SHO DEV Are the sizes shown accurately, 1.0 GB ? Did you INIT/SYSTEM the drive with VMS? If so, what happened? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:55:30 -0800 (PST) From: H Vlems Subject: Re: Seagate ST31051N on MicroVAX 3100 Message-ID: <8105d710-dad8-4ca1-b03b-12efe06fad9f@e38g2000prn.googlegroups.com> On 13 nov, 19:36, shadoooo wrote: > I acquired two Seagate ST31051N to use it on my VAX boxes. > I used TEST 75 on the MicroVAX 3100, disk erased correctly. Then I > tried to install a VMS 5.5 from > another bootable disk I prepared with STABACKIT, but when it tries to > INIT/MOUNT it, I received a drive fatal error. > I read the ng and found the problem about ARRE ARWE bits, so > downloaded the SCU application, connected the drive to the PC and > disabled these bits. Then I retried with install operation, but it is > the same as before, even with ARRE ARWE disabled. So I tried to > disable also EER (early error recovery) but it's the same. I tried to > mount the disk also on my 4000-100A, but also there no way. I don't > understand why it doesn't work. > Any idea? Maybe I need to redo TEST75 after the bit disable operation? P.S. Could you elaborate on "disk erased correctly", what did you do with the disks? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:46:07 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Seagate ST31051N on MicroVAX 3100 Message-ID: <000bf2e5$0$6611$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> My VAXstation 3100-30 (not the same as Microvax 3100 but relatively same vintage) has a Seagate 310055N disk drive. I did not have any issues getting it working. On the other hand, I did have problems with an older apple scsi drive because it did not respond to certain commands issued by VMS early in boot sequence, and the solution was to get VMS to stall during boot, then physically power off the disk, and physically power it back on, and VMS would then continue with the boot sequence and didn't have problems afterwards. (this was a scsi-1 drive, VMS expects SCSI-2). I don't have easy access to the pin settings on that drive. But it was basically just a question of setting the SCSI ID and formatting and and then using VMS to load itself onto it (from my older apple drive). ------------------------------ Date: 13 Nov 2008 23:52:50 GMT From: "Bob Eager" Subject: Re: Seagate ST31051N on MicroVAX 3100 Message-ID: <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-WzQ3vMjRdCYv@rikki.tavi.co.uk> On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 23:46:07 UTC, JF Mezei wrote: > My VAXstation 3100-30 (not the same as Microvax 3100 but relatively same > vintage) has a Seagate 310055N disk drive. I did not have any issues > getting it working. > > On the other hand, I did have problems with an older apple scsi drive > because it did not respond to certain commands issued by VMS early in > boot sequence, and the solution was to get VMS to stall during boot, > then physically power off the disk, and physically power it back on, and > VMS would then continue with the boot sequence and didn't have problems > afterwards. (this was a scsi-1 drive, VMS expects SCSI-2). > > I don't have easy access to the pin settings on that drive. But it was > basically just a question of setting the SCSI ID and formatting and and > then using VMS to load itself onto it (from my older apple drive). Can't remember which disk it was, but on my 3100 I remember that the '1GB' disk was in practice fractionally too large. I had to modify its apparent size using a custom program I wrote. Did something similar on my VS4000/60 for 4.3GB disks. -- Bob Eager Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 19:26:16 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: strange disk state Message-ID: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: >Do to an unfortunate unplanned accidental reboot of two nodes in my >cluster, something strange happened. There are three nodes in the >cluster. The problem is with a member of the system-disk shadow set on >one of the nodes. Like all system-disk shadow sets, both members have a >direct connection only to their own node. From two nodes, the shadow >set looks like this: Hmm, the shadowset is not consistent across the cluster. This sounds dangerous to me, since a system that thinks there is only one member will only write to that one member and make the members different. What I'd do is to dismount the member not seen as a member on all nodes, and dismount the set by any system that doesn't need it (not its system disk). Add the member back in and do $ ANALYZE/DISK/SHADOW to see if the set is consistent. There are plenty of shadowing fixes, get updated on the patches since you've got older versions of VMS (which may rule out ANALYZE/DISK/SHADOW) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:41:52 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: strange disk state Message-ID: In article , moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes: > Hmm, the shadowset is not consistent across the cluster. This sounds > dangerous to me, Indeed, which is why I am worried. > since a system that thinks there is only one member > will only write to that one member and make the members different. True. However, that never happens. It's a system-disk shadow set. On that system, both members are there. The only time another node would write to it would be if I were to do something manually. While this might occasionally happen, I certainly won't do so before the problem is fixed. > What I'd do is to dismount the member not seen as a member on all nodes, > and dismount the set by any system that doesn't need it (not its system > disk). Add the member back in and do $ ANALYZE/DISK/SHADOW to see if the > set is consistent. There are plenty of shadowing fixes, get updated on > the patches since you've got older versions of VMS (which may rule out > ANALYZE/DISK/SHADOW) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:32:13 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: VMS, HP and the recession Message-ID: <00086bca$0$12267$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> There seems to be a consensus that a global recession will be rather severe. We all know that many corporations, when faced with numbers below Wall Street Casino expectations, will revert to announcing cutback in staffing. Any predictions on when HP's sales will start to hurt ? Any chance that staff cutbacks would decimate VMS engineering, essentially putting VMS in maintenance mode even if still officially being developped ? In recent month, the US dollar has risen sharply against other world currencies, so foreign revenus , when transfered to USD will be lower for HP further amplifying the problem. Are there serious concerns here, or am I just being paranoid ? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:38:38 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: VMS, HP and the recession Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > There seems to be a consensus that a global recession will be rather > severe. > > We all know that many corporations, when faced with numbers below Wall > Street Casino expectations, will revert to announcing cutback in staffing. > > Any predictions on when HP's sales will start to hurt ? Any chance that > staff cutbacks would decimate VMS engineering, essentially putting VMS > in maintenance mode even if still officially being developped ? > > > In recent month, the US dollar has risen sharply against other world > currencies, so foreign revenus , when transfered to USD will be lower > for HP further amplifying the problem. > > > Are there serious concerns here, or am I just being paranoid ? JF, You KNOW that we have had doubts about your sanity for many years! So what's a little paranoia between friends? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:43:31 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: VMS, HP and the recession Message-ID: In article <00086bca$0$12267$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: > There seems to be a consensus that a global recession will be rather > severe. Grant it, for now. > We all know that many corporations, when faced with numbers below Wall > Street Casino expectations, will revert to announcing cutback in staffing. Indeed. > Any predictions on when HP's sales will start to hurt ? Any chance that > staff cutbacks would decimate VMS engineering, essentially putting VMS > in maintenance mode even if still officially being developped ? VMS survived Palmer; it can survive a worldwide recession! :-) > In recent month, the US dollar has risen sharply against other world > currencies, so foreign revenus , when transfered to USD will be lower > for HP further amplifying the problem. Not long ago, the EURO was very high compared to the dollar. Did this result in a renaissance of VMS, new hires at HP etc? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:38:57 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: VMS, HP and the recession Message-ID: <0008978f$0$12313$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > Not long ago, the EURO was very high compared to the dollar. Did this > result in a renaissance of VMS, new hires at HP etc? When the USD sank, USA companies saw increased profits due to their foreign revenus translating into higher numbers when converted to USD. So this would help delay any staff cuts. But with the USD having risen back to more traditional levels, foreign revenus will drop significantly, and whenever companies show a drop in profits, there are expections it will respond with some cost cutting programme. As a point of comparison, the euro dropped 17% against USD. Canadian dollar dropped 23%. The australian dollar dropped even more. The BGP dropped 26% against USD. Since HP makes a significant portion of its revenus from outside the USA. (Not sure if more than 50%, but DEC was more than 50% from outside the USA). This means that one can expect currency fluctuations alone to cut profits by about 10% for HP. Profit margins may also go down since made-in-USA products will cost much more when sold outside USA, reducing profit margins because prices are not likely to rise by as much. If VMS revenus depend more on overseas sales than the average HP product, then VMS revenus will be seen as dropping more than the rest of HP and thus may be a easy target for cost cuts. On the other hand, what is left of the VMS customer base is probably the type of company which survives bad economy cycles because those VMS boxes have been there for decades, so perhaps VMS revenus (outside of currency fluctuations) may be less affected than disposable wintel boxes that people will decide to keep an extra year or two instead of replacing every year. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.616 ************************