INFO-VAX Mon, 10 Nov 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 609 Contents: Re: %DSM-E-NOTRUN A DSM Re: /SYSTEM and /FOREIGN on a disk on the same MOUNT command Re: /SYSTEM and /FOREIGN on a disk on the same MOUNT command Re: /SYSTEM and /FOREIGN on a disk on the same MOUNT command Re: Compaq Office Server Fetcher Licensing Issue Re: Compaq Office Server Fetcher Licensing Issue Re: Compaq Office Server Fetcher Licensing Issue Re: Compaq Office Server Fetcher Licensing Issue Re: Compaq Office Server Fetcher Licensing Issue Re: Most impressive VAX installations Re: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of $2400.00??? Re: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of $2400.00??? Re: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of $2400.00??? Re: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of $2400.00??? Re: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of $2400.00??? Re: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of $2400.00??? Re: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of $2400.00??? Re: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of $2400.00??? Volume Shadowing Temporary Version Expired Re: Volume Shadowing Temporary Version Expired Re: Volume Shadowing Temporary Version Expired Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? RE: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 04:14:45 -0800 (PST) From: Jesse.Chambless@acs-inc.com Subject: Re: %DSM-E-NOTRUN A DSM Message-ID: On Nov 5, 6:34=A0am, Jim wrote: > On Nov 5, 4:49=A0am, k...@mols.co.uk wrote: > > > > > We have an old vax system here which is really not used much, but we > > need access to it for some records out the database. > > > Unfortunately it comes up with this error on trying to log onto it. > > %DSM-E-NOTRUN A DSM configuration is not running > > > Then it dumps you back at the logon, I found an old article on google > > that mentions running with an -M switch but havent a clue where to > > start? > > > Digital MicroVax 3100-80 > > > VMS 5.5-1 > > > DSM Version 6 > > > Just on the complete off chance I'm hoping someone may point me in the > > right direction or what to do next with it. > > > I dont have any knowledge of the system or programming what can I do > > to get it running again? > > A DSM (Digital Standard MUMPS) database environment exists as a > collection of daemon processes running detached on the system that > provide access and integrity to the database. All of these processes > run under the account/username that owns the database. That error > message is saying that these processes are not "up". So, if you have > access to account that owns the database, log into that account and > try something like > > $ DSM/MAN ^STU > > and answer the prompts and the database will start up. ^STU is the > startup routine for the DSM database. You might also be interested in > what > > $ HELP DSM > > can tell you. First find the environment manager. Set default sys$library then DSM/MAN/NOVOL you will get a prompt similiar to > Then do the following. >D ^%G Global>DSMMGR You may then carriage return to get back to > and then Halt to exit back to VMS. Here you will get a listing of environments. See if there is one called DSMMGR, if so, then look in the sysuaf and set the password for the DSMMGR account. Log into the DSMMGR account and perform the following. $DSM/MAN ^STU This will start the environment. If there is no environment called DSMMGR, then look for the environment associated with the "1". This will "most likely" be the correct environment. Follow the steps above to log into the environment manager. If you have any further question please e-mail me. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 03:25:49 -0800 (PST) From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: /SYSTEM and /FOREIGN on a disk on the same MOUNT command Message-ID: <9a4f32d5-7ea9-4f72-b4a3-e8bfaf3d2126@1g2000prd.googlegroups.com> On 9 Nov, 02:54, moro...@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote: > moro...@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes: > >>Is this a bug or have I got it the wrong way round in my head? > >Interesting. =A0I just tried that and it worked. V8.3. It definitely did= not > >allow both /SYSTEM and /FOREIGN before. =A0So the question is whether th= is > >was a deliberate change or an unintended consequence of something else (= a > >bug). > > I was corrected on this via email, apparently you could do > $ MOUNT/SYSTEM/FOREIGN since the '90s or maybe earlier. =A0The oldest sys= tem > I have access to is V7.3 which allows it. My thinking was obviously flawed then, but my thinking was like this: I mount a disk that I want to do an image restore to /FOREIGN and / SYSTEM Would the /SYSTEM cause problems to that since I could potentially have two users doing an image restore to the same disk at the same time. Steve ------------------------------ Date: 10 Nov 2008 07:17:03 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: /SYSTEM and /FOREIGN on a disk on the same MOUNT command Message-ID: In article <0007bc82$0$32289$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: > Question: > > If I MOUNT/FOREIGN/SYSTEM a disk. > > Is that ANY locking done for the disk when more than one user tries to > access it at the same time ? (I realise that file or record based > locking is not relevant in a foreign disk, but what about block or disk > based locking (aka: if use 1 opens a channel to the disk read/write, > can user 2 also do the same ?) When you say /foreign you tell VMS that it has no idea what's going on on that disk. If the device is shareable then multiple processes can access it, and disk devices are shareable. You can narrow this down with mount qualifiers and device protection, but it's up to the users to coordinate thier access. I've never tried using an HLL's exclusive open on a shareable device other than a Files-11 disk, where VMS enforses the access at the file level. It would be an interesting experiment. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:08:22 +0000 From: "R.A.Omond" Subject: Re: /SYSTEM and /FOREIGN on a disk on the same MOUNT command Message-ID: <49185d31$0$90267$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > On 9 Nov, 02:54, moro...@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > wrote: >> moro...@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes: >>>> Is this a bug or have I got it the wrong way round in my head? >>> Interesting. I just tried that and it worked. V8.3. It definitely did not >>> allow both /SYSTEM and /FOREIGN before. So the question is whether this >>> was a deliberate change or an unintended consequence of something else (a >>> bug). >> I was corrected on this via email, apparently you could do >> $ MOUNT/SYSTEM/FOREIGN since the '90s or maybe earlier. The oldest system >> I have access to is V7.3 which allows it. > > My thinking was obviously flawed then, but my thinking was like this: > I mount a disk that I want to do an image restore to /FOREIGN and > /SYSTEM You would *not* want to do this. > Would the /SYSTEM cause problems to that since I could potentially > have two users doing an image restore to the same disk at the same > time. Yes, it would cause problems. Hence: you do *not* want to Mount /System a disk you want to use privately. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 02:23:03 -0800 (PST) From: urbancamo Subject: Re: Compaq Office Server Fetcher Licensing Issue Message-ID: Thanks for the help so far. I've been asked as a favour to look at this box. I've got very little experience with Office Server other than a user a few years ago. From what I can gather there are ALLIN1 PAKS loaded. The box has a licenses directory with a number of ALLIN1 PAK files in, so I decided to remove the licenses from the license database and add them back one at a time to see at what point it started moaning about the fetcher. However, having removed all the licenses and restarted the box I get the same symptoms - the Office Server is accessible from the OFFICE (MANAGER) and user accounts just the same, and the fetcher startup log moans the same. So it would appear that the licenses that were loaded either weren't being picked up or weren't being looked for by the Office Server application. I suspect that the box might have been upgraded from ALLIN1 to Office Server at some point in the past and then left in this state. I read on the Office Server SPL that there are two licensing models - traditional ALLIN1 licensing based on PAKS or CALS. I've not come across CALs before. Could this be an issue with CALs? How would I check for them? Thanks for the help, Mark. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:33:21 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Compaq Office Server Fetcher Licensing Issue Message-ID: <00042322$0$2503$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> urbancamo wrote: > Thanks for the help so far. I've been asked as a favour to look at > this box. I've got very little experience with Office Server other > than a user a few years ago. You need to look at the fetcher configuration. (in the manager account, system management menus there are some menu options for the sender/fetcher). You need to find out if they are trying to connect to message router, or mailbus400 or to other allin1 instances. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:36:44 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Compaq Office Server Fetcher Licensing Issue Message-ID: urbancamo wrote: > Thanks for the help so far. I've been asked as a favour to look at > this box. I've got very little experience with Office Server other > than a user a few years ago. > > From what I can gather there are ALLIN1 PAKS loaded. The box has a > licenses directory with a number of ALLIN1 PAK files in, so I decided > to remove the licenses from the license database and add them back one > at a time to see at what point it started moaning about the fetcher. > However, having removed all the licenses and restarted the box I get > the same symptoms - the Office Server is accessible from the OFFICE > (MANAGER) and user accounts just the same, and the fetcher startup log > moans the same. So it would appear that the licenses that were loaded > either weren't being picked up or weren't being looked for by the > Office Server application. I suspect that the box might have been > upgraded from ALLIN1 to Office Server at some point in the past and > then left in this state. > What does LICENSE LIST say? You might want to add a /FULL to that command. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 06:35:14 -0800 (PST) From: urbancamo Subject: Re: Compaq Office Server Fetcher Licensing Issue Message-ID: <3c6c9d61-416a-40a1-9c65-ed9a0ceb5500@i24g2000prf.googlegroups.com> An update: I defined the LMF_DISPLAY_OPCOM_MESSAGE logical and whilst that outputs information if I try and run the C compiler with the license unloaded it does not display anything when the Fetcher is started (and fails). Could this be a red herring? The licenses currently loaded on the box to do with ALLIN1 are: ALLIN1 ALLIN1-CORE ALLIN1-CORE-USER ALLIN1-USER Regards, Mark. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 06:39:00 -0800 (PST) From: urbancamo Subject: Re: Compaq Office Server Fetcher Licensing Issue Message-ID: <1361d303-be5c-461d-93ca-70f3802108de@x16g2000prn.googlegroups.com> On the 'Status of Mail System' page: Message Transport: Message Router Mailbox name: Maixbox password: ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 00:50:15 -0800 (PST) From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: Most impressive VAX installations Message-ID: <3d93a503-97ac-43ed-be26-df08ee1d6fac@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com> On 9 Nov, 15:07, ChrisQ wrote: > Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > > Bob Eager wrote: > > > There was a shop on RT 130 just south of Hightstown, NJ where I saw a > > disk platter that must have been three to four FEET in diameter! Ancien= t > > technology of course. > > IBM Ramac ?. There was one of those in a scrap yard in Newbury (Uk) in > the 1960's, the result of a USAF base closing at Greenham Common. The > drive had the disks vertically on a spindle, with 2 axis head movement - > vertically to select the platter, then laterally to select the track . > Probably 10 or 15 platters around 3 feet across iirc. overall height > around 6 feet. > > I was late teens at the time and spent hours removing parts and some of > =A0 plug in modules, one module per flip flop or gates etc. Carefully > removed all the r/w heads from a fixed head drum drive as well, which I > guess would have been used for cache. This was a valve (tube) computer > and probably still have some of the heads and stuff like wire ended neon > lamps that were everywhere in the plugin modules. The majority of the > tubes were 6211 double triodes, a mil spec version of the 12AU7 or simila= r. > > Knowing what I know now, I should have bought the whole thing, though it > would probably have filled the ground floor of a house. They probably > dumped a couple of hundred tons of aviation, electronics, radio and test > gear scrap, much with a hammer through the face to stop it being reused. > As young radio & electronics enthusiast, it was like being transported > to paradise :-)... > > Chris You sure it wasn't just new technology replacing old at Greenham Common? I remember the peace campaigners outside there on the TV in the 1980s... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:01:05 -0500 From: "John Reagan" Subject: Re: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of $2400.00??? Message-ID: "JF Mezei" wrote in message news:0003e74f$0$26284$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com... > John Reagan wrote: > >> I've been staying out of the discussion since I don't even understand >> them. >> That part of the productizing of the compilers is above my pay grade as >> they >> say. > > But Shirley, you guys could add a couple of IF statements in your > compilers to check the status of the licence check call and exit > gracefully when it is not good ? SYS$LOOKUP_LICENSE signals errors instead of returning them. As I said, using LIB$SIG_TO_RET can help us easily detect it and then make some direct call to SYS$EXIT. Just never been high on my list. John ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 14:14:46 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of $2400.00??? Message-ID: <00A8269D.3D3AFDF1@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , "John Reagan" writes: > >"JF Mezei" wrote in message >news:0003e74f$0$26284$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com... >> John Reagan wrote: >> >>> I've been staying out of the discussion since I don't even understand >>> them. >>> That part of the productizing of the compilers is above my pay grade as >>> they >>> say. >> >> But Shirley, you guys could add a couple of IF statements in your >> compilers to check the status of the licence check call and exit >> gracefully when it is not good ? > >SYS$LOOKUP_LICENSE signals errors instead of returning them. As I said, >using LIB$SIG_TO_RET can help us easily detect it and then make some direct >call to SYS$EXIT. Just never been high on my list. Curious, why SYS$LOOKUP_LICENSE and not SYS$GRANT_LICENSE? -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 06:29:48 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of $2400.00??? Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 06:14:46 -0800, VAXman- <@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote: > In article , "John > Reagan" writes: >> >> "JF Mezei" wrote in message >> news:0003e74f$0$26284$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com... >>> John Reagan wrote: >>> >>>> I've been staying out of the discussion since I don't even understand >>>> them. >>>> That part of the productizing of the compilers is above my pay grade >>>> as >>>> they >>>> say. >>> >>> But Shirley, you guys could add a couple of IF statements in your >>> compilers to check the status of the licence check call and exit >>> gracefully when it is not good ? >> >> SYS$LOOKUP_LICENSE signals errors instead of returning them. As I said, >> using LIB$SIG_TO_RET can help us easily detect it and then make some >> direct >> call to SYS$EXIT. Just never been high on my list. > > Curious, why SYS$LOOKUP_LICENSE and not SYS$GRANT_LICENSE? > Because it only works with DEC as the provider. -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: 10 Nov 2008 16:22:40 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of $2400.00??? Message-ID: <6nr5egFf2ikU2@mid.individual.net> In article , "Tom Linden" writes: > On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 13:19:01 -0800, JF Mezei > wrote: > >> John Reagan wrote: >> >>> I've been staying out of the discussion since I don't even understand >>> them. >>> That part of the productizing of the compilers is above my pay grade as >>> they >>> say. >> >> But Shirley, you guys could add a couple of IF statements in your >> compilers to check the status of the licence check call and exit >> gracefully when it is not good ? >> >> And a better thing would be to put the licence check in a loop with a 10 >> second timer. If the licence is already "in use", wait 10 seconds and >> try again. This way, as soon as the other compile is done, this one can >> begin. (this loop could be controlled though some logical name whose >> value would be the maximum amount of time to wait for licence to become >> available) > > I used a C compiler on a Sun box about 20 years ago, and if someone had > used the > compiler, you had to wait a half hour, because that useer had preemptive > rights > for that period, we ended up expanding the license to 2 users. I have been using Suns since the M68K Sun3 days and have never seen a compiler that was not just wide open. Well, that may have happened when they moved to the first Solaris versions (much less than 20 years ago and when we stopped being a Sun shop) when I seem to remember Sun unbundling the compiler but even then GNU-C was already available and had no such limitation. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 10 Nov 2008 16:26:24 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of $2400.00??? Message-ID: <6nr5lgFf2ikU3@mid.individual.net> In article <00A82514.67CBCF1B@sendspamhere.org>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > In article <6nlgdmFm4tcqU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>In article <00A8247E.E4E037C0@sendspamhere.org>, >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >>> In article <0003e74f$0$26284$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: >>>>John Reagan wrote: >>>> >>>>> I've been staying out of the discussion since I don't even understand them. >>>>> That part of the productizing of the compilers is above my pay grade as they >>>>> say. >>>> >>>>But Shirley, you guys could add a couple of IF statements in your >>>>compilers to check the status of the licence check call and exit >>>>gracefully when it is not good ? >>>> >>>>And a better thing would be to put the licence check in a loop with a 10 >>>>second timer. If the licence is already "in use", wait 10 seconds and >>>>try again. This way, as soon as the other compile is done, this one can >>>>begin. (this loop could be controlled though some logical name whose >>>>value would be the maximum amount of time to wait for licence to become >>>>available) >>> >>> Polling? How unixy. :) >> >>Since when? Version 6? > > Bill, you never cease to amaze me in the lack of humor department. ;) Oh, I have humor. But that was yet another of the typical Unix type comments here and based on the demonstrated level of real Unix knowledge in this group there is little if any reason to assume it isn's a serious comment requiring an answer. I mean would be the response here if I constantly complained about SOS being the only VMS editor. :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:40:02 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of $2400.00??? Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 08:22:40 -0800, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article , > "Tom Linden" writes: >> On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 13:19:01 -0800, JF Mezei >> wrote: >> >>> John Reagan wrote: >>> >>>> I've been staying out of the discussion since I don't even understand >>>> them. >>>> That part of the productizing of the compilers is above my pay grade >>>> as >>>> they >>>> say. >>> >>> But Shirley, you guys could add a couple of IF statements in your >>> compilers to check the status of the licence check call and exit >>> gracefully when it is not good ? >>> >>> And a better thing would be to put the licence check in a loop with a >>> 10 >>> second timer. If the licence is already "in use", wait 10 seconds and >>> try again. This way, as soon as the other compile is done, this one can >>> begin. (this loop could be controlled though some logical name whose >>> value would be the maximum amount of time to wait for licence to become >>> available) >> >> I used a C compiler on a Sun box about 20 years ago, and if someone had >> used the >> compiler, you had to wait a half hour, because that useer had preemptive >> rights >> for that period, we ended up expanding the license to 2 users. > I have been using Suns since the M68K Sun3 days and have never seen a > compiler that was not just wide open. Well, that may have happened when > they moved to the first Solaris versions (much less than 20 years ago and > when we stopped being a Sun shop) when I seem to remember Sun unbundling > the compiler but even then GNU-C was already available and had no such > limitation. > bill > This was in 1994 Sun had asked me to write an IMS multiplexor with 3270 screens for Hughes. It may be that you used educational license? The 3270 emulator, BTW, was not reentrant so had to fork and spawn a lot, all because some implementor did not have the experience to avoid the use of static storage. The license did behave as I said until it was expanded. The original IMS front-end had been written in PL/I for a Stratus machine, which explains my involvement (in case you wonder) used named stream pipes to communicate between client and server -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: 10 Nov 2008 18:28:19 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of $2400.00??? Message-ID: <6nrcq2Fgp63U2@mid.individual.net> In article , "Tom Linden" writes: > On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 08:22:40 -0800, Bill Gunshannon > wrote: > >> In article , >> "Tom Linden" writes: >>> On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 13:19:01 -0800, JF Mezei >>> wrote: >>> >>>> John Reagan wrote: >>>> >>>>> I've been staying out of the discussion since I don't even understand >>>>> them. >>>>> That part of the productizing of the compilers is above my pay grade >>>>> as >>>>> they >>>>> say. >>>> >>>> But Shirley, you guys could add a couple of IF statements in your >>>> compilers to check the status of the licence check call and exit >>>> gracefully when it is not good ? >>>> >>>> And a better thing would be to put the licence check in a loop with a >>>> 10 >>>> second timer. If the licence is already "in use", wait 10 seconds and >>>> try again. This way, as soon as the other compile is done, this one can >>>> begin. (this loop could be controlled though some logical name whose >>>> value would be the maximum amount of time to wait for licence to become >>>> available) >>> >>> I used a C compiler on a Sun box about 20 years ago, and if someone had >>> used the >>> compiler, you had to wait a half hour, because that useer had preemptive >>> rights >>> for that period, we ended up expanding the license to 2 users. >> I have been using Suns since the M68K Sun3 days and have never seen a >> compiler that was not just wide open. Well, that may have happened when >> they moved to the first Solaris versions (much less than 20 years ago and >> when we stopped being a Sun shop) when I seem to remember Sun unbundling >> the compiler but even then GNU-C was already available and had no such >> limitation. >> bill >> > This was in 1994 Sun had asked me to write an IMS multiplexor with 3270 > screens for Hughes. It may be that you used educational license? The SunOS had no kind of license manager. You sure you weren't using a third party product? I do remember things like FrameMaker and Rational Rose all using license managers (and some even had dongles) but nothing I ever saw from Sun prior to the existence of Solaris. > 3270 emulator, BTW, was not reentrant so had to fork and spawn a lot, > all because some implementor did not have the experience to avoid the use > of static storage. The license did behave as I said until it was expanded. > The original IMS front-end had been written in PL/I for a Stratus machine, > which explains my involvement (in case you wonder) used named stream pipes > to communicate between client and server bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:03:10 -0500 From: "John Reagan" Subject: Re: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of $2400.00??? Message-ID: "yyyc186" wrote in message news:2c2daad8-f3ec-457e-b92a- > If the BASIC maintainer is lurking, you'll want to contact this user > off-list and get the remaining details. The trace-back and stack dump > are already here. Are the language maintainers even in this country anymore? Last I heard, HP no longer meets ITAR requirements for U.S. citizens working on their products. I am a US-born citizen (born in Indiana) and I have a birth certificate to prove it. There are other US-born/US-based folks working on compilers besides me. John ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 06:54:54 -0800 (PST) From: Ramon Jimenez Subject: Volume Shadowing Temporary Version Expired Message-ID: Hello, Someone installed a Volume Shadowing Temporary Version, and ensure us that the license will be acquired before expiration. So we do all our work on the shadow disc. Now the temporary version has expired. My guess, (my hope really) is once we get the license we recover all the work he have done. Could anyone confim if I'm right or may I get ready to do the job again? Regards ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 10:18:15 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Volume Shadowing Temporary Version Expired Message-ID: Ramon Jimenez wrote: > Hello, > > Someone installed a Volume Shadowing Temporary Version, and ensure us > that the license will be acquired before expiration. So we do all our > work on the shadow disc. > > Now the temporary version has expired. My guess, (my hope really) is > once we get the license we recover all the work he have done. > > Could anyone confim if I'm right or may I get ready to do the job > again? > > Regards You should be able to mount and read any member of that shadow set. What you cannot do is mount it as a shadow set. Once you get your license, you can, once again, mount the shadow set as a shadow set. It has been a few years since I last had a volume shadowing license to work with. IIRC you can mount, use, and even write to, ONE member of that set. When you get your license, install it, and load it, you will be able to mount your disks as a shadow set again. When you mount your second volume, it should do a shadow copy to update the second volume. Get a copy of the Volume Shadowing manual, READ IT and UNDERSTAND IT. You should NOT rely on my ten year old memories of volume shadowing! My memory grows DIMM! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:09:19 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Volume Shadowing Temporary Version Expired Message-ID: <00A826AD.3DE9A177@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >Ramon Jimenez wrote: >> Hello, >> >> Someone installed a Volume Shadowing Temporary Version, and ensure us >> that the license will be acquired before expiration. So we do all our >> work on the shadow disc. >> >> Now the temporary version has expired. My guess, (my hope really) is >> once we get the license we recover all the work he have done. >> >> Could anyone confim if I'm right or may I get ready to do the job >> again? >> >> Regards > >You should be able to mount and read any member of that shadow set. >What you cannot do is mount it as a shadow set. Once you get your >license, you can, once again, mount the shadow set as a shadow set. > >It has been a few years since I last had a volume shadowing license to >work with. IIRC you can mount, use, and even write to, ONE member of >that set. When you get your license, install it, and load it, you will >be able to mount your disks as a shadow set again. When you mount your >second volume, it should do a shadow copy to update the second volume. If he needs only to access what is on the set, mount one of the drives $ MOUNT[/SYSTEM]/NOWRITE device label Then there won't even be a shadow copy when he does get the license and can recreate/remount the set. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 01:50:43 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: <0003b6c1$0$2534$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> David J Dachtera wrote: > in my case) and our careers)? We're not only ones "hurting" here. HP is > shooting their own feet while blowing sunshine up their people's skirts. > "There are none so blind as those who will not see." When you own your own business, and you have a primary source of revenu, you cherish it and ensure you don't lose customers and try to make it grow. But a large corporation is runned by accountants. They look at the revenus vs cost ratios, trends and decide which business units should grow and which should be allowed to wither away. Since HP has many products that fill the VMS niche, letting VMS wither away while steeriung customers over to HP-UX, Linux, Windows or NSK means that HP doesn't lose the customer. And when they close down a business unit but retain most of the customers, it means that they have redeuced the costs tremendously while keeping revenus the same, and to accountants, this is like an orgasm. MPE got the axe when HP moved to that IA64 thing. And when IA64 is put out of its misery, VMS will get the axe. We may complain about HP not having leveraged VMS or tried to grow it, tried to market it etc etc. But we should be thankful that HP chose to grandfather its unwanted, non-strategic VMS asset for this long. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 00:59:10 -0800 (PST) From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: <0f37417b-dfde-477b-b0fc-351faa237825@e38g2000prn.googlegroups.com> On 10 Nov, 02:30, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > David J Dachtera wrote: > > Jerry Eckert wrote: > >> On Oct 26, 11:54 am, David J Dachtera > >> wrote: > > >>> "Complaints" are like pain: they tell us when something is wrong. > >> Sometimes. > > > Always. > > >> Or they can just be an itch that wants to be scratched. =A0Some, an it= ch > >> that won't go away. > > > ...in which case, you should be very, VERY afraid! > > > "Google" for Inflammatory Breast Cancer (IBC). > > > As one of the few men who has had a mammogram, this has special meaning > > for me. > > > What at first seems an annoyance can indeed become potentially deadly, > > if dismissed as blithely as "an itch". > > > D.J.D. > > > P.S.: > > If you dismiss our pain so blithely, ask yourself: Where would OpenVMS > > profits be if HP took VMS as seriously as we take HP's neglect of it > > (and also the impact of that on our employers, our industry (healthcare= , > > in my case) and our careers)? We're not only ones "hurting" here. HP is > > shooting their own feet while blowing sunshine up their people's skirts= . > > "There are none so blind as those who will not see." > > VMS has never been very significant to HP! =A0Ink and toner is where the > money comes from. =A0The damage was done many years ago and I can't think > of anything likely to undo it! =A0There are none so blind. . . . > > If it weren't for Sue, you wouldn't be able to find anyone at HP who > could sell you a license or a media kit.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Ok, I'm going to defend the UK sales team here. As someone working for a reseller of VMS systems, I have absolutely no problem getting the Teleweb team in the UK to talk to me and talk about selling VMS into customers. We've done and continue to do some very nice deals on OpenVMS on Integrity. Our software product relies on OpenVMS in its current incarnation and nicely it runs too. Also, there was lots of push and lots of help from HP to get us to Preferred Partner status for FY09. That doesn't mean that there isn't still some space for improvement, but it's not as bleak as only Sue knows where to get a media kit or license. Steve ------------------------------ Date: 10 Nov 2008 07:19:33 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: <3wmmutDb+s6e@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <0003b6c1$0$2534$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: > > Since HP has many products that fill the VMS niche, letting VMS wither > away while steeriung customers over to HP-UX, Linux, Windows or NSK > means that HP doesn't lose the customer. HP has lots of products that can fill many niches where VMS is an option. But there are niches where VMS and not UNIX, Windows, or even Tandem is an option. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:30:05 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > On 10 Nov, 02:30, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: >> David J Dachtera wrote: >>> Jerry Eckert wrote: >>>> On Oct 26, 11:54 am, David J Dachtera >>>> wrote: >>>>> "Complaints" are like pain: they tell us when something is wrong. >>>> Sometimes. >>> Always. >>>> Or they can just be an itch that wants to be scratched. Some, an itch >>>> that won't go away. >>> ...in which case, you should be very, VERY afraid! >>> "Google" for Inflammatory Breast Cancer (IBC). >>> As one of the few men who has had a mammogram, this has special meaning >>> for me. >>> What at first seems an annoyance can indeed become potentially deadly, >>> if dismissed as blithely as "an itch". >>> D.J.D. >>> P.S.: >>> If you dismiss our pain so blithely, ask yourself: Where would OpenVMS >>> profits be if HP took VMS as seriously as we take HP's neglect of it >>> (and also the impact of that on our employers, our industry (healthcare, >>> in my case) and our careers)? We're not only ones "hurting" here. HP is >>> shooting their own feet while blowing sunshine up their people's skirts. >>> "There are none so blind as those who will not see." >> VMS has never been very significant to HP! Ink and toner is where the >> money comes from. The damage was done many years ago and I can't think >> of anything likely to undo it! There are none so blind. . . . >> >> If it weren't for Sue, you wouldn't be able to find anyone at HP who >> could sell you a license or a media kit.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Ok, I'm going to defend the UK sales team here. > As someone working for a reseller of VMS systems, I have absolutely no > problem getting the Teleweb team in the UK to talk to me and talk > about selling VMS into customers. We've done and continue to do some > very nice deals on OpenVMS on Integrity. > Our software product relies on OpenVMS in its current incarnation and > nicely it runs too. > Also, there was lots of push and lots of help from HP to get us to > Preferred Partner status for FY09. > > That doesn't mean that there isn't still some space for improvement, > but it's not as bleak as only Sue knows where to get a media kit or > license. > Steve The available evidence suggests that the UK team is doing a better job than the US team (with ONE notable exception). There have been a number of horror stories posted here concerning people's unsuccessful efforts to contact someone at HP who can sell them a VMS license or a media kit. In each case, Sue has been able to kick butt and get some action and/or supply a hard to find phone number for the VMS salesperson at HP. There is ONE but he's hard to find. ------------------------------ Date: 10 Nov 2008 16:14:56 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: <6nr500Ff2ikU1@mid.individual.net> In article <3wmmutDb+s6e@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article <0003b6c1$0$2534$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: >> >> Since HP has many products that fill the VMS niche, letting VMS wither >> away while steeriung customers over to HP-UX, Linux, Windows or NSK >> means that HP doesn't lose the customer. > > HP has lots of products that can fill many niches where VMS is an > option. But there are niches where VMS and not UNIX, Windows, or > even Tandem is an option. Not enough of them to even count. And certainly not enough to justify investing any money in the advancement of VMS. If it were othewrwise, we wouldn't always be coming back to this same discusion. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:54:03 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: <9D02E14BC0A2AE43A5D16A4CD8EC5A593ED9530A6E@GVW1158EXB.americas.hpqcorp.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:billg999@cs.uofs.edu] > Sent: November 10, 2008 11:15 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? > > In article <3wmmutDb+s6e@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > > In article <0003b6c1$0$2534$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei > writes: > >> > >> Since HP has many products that fill the VMS niche, letting VMS > wither > >> away while steeriung customers over to HP-UX, Linux, Windows or NSK > >> means that HP doesn't lose the customer. > > > > HP has lots of products that can fill many niches where VMS is an > > option. But there are niches where VMS and not UNIX, Windows, or > > even Tandem is an option. > > Not enough of them to even count. And certainly not enough to justify > investing any money in the advancement of VMS. If it were othewrwise, > we wouldn't always be coming back to this same discusion. > > bill > > Yeah, you are likely right - I mean how much money is there really in these small markets like banks, telecom, manufacturing, stock exchanges, education, transportation, retail, utility and military markets anyway? :-) Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-254-8911 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: 10 Nov 2008 18:25:08 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: <6nrck4Fgp63U1@mid.individual.net> In article <9D02E14BC0A2AE43A5D16A4CD8EC5A593ED9530A6E@gvw1158exb.americas.hpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" writes: > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:billg999@cs.uofs.edu] >> Sent: November 10, 2008 11:15 AM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? >> >> In article <3wmmutDb+s6e@eisner.encompasserve.org>, >> koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >> > In article <0003b6c1$0$2534$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei >> writes: >> >> >> >> Since HP has many products that fill the VMS niche, letting VMS >> wither >> >> away while steeriung customers over to HP-UX, Linux, Windows or NSK >> >> means that HP doesn't lose the customer. >> > >> > HP has lots of products that can fill many niches where VMS is an >> > option. But there are niches where VMS and not UNIX, Windows, or >> > even Tandem is an option. >> >> Not enough of them to even count. And certainly not enough to justify >> investing any money in the advancement of VMS. If it were othewrwise, >> we wouldn't always be coming back to this same discusion. >> >> bill >> >> > > Yeah, you are likely right - > > I mean how much money is there really in these small markets like banks, > telecom, manufacturing, stock exchanges, education, transportation, retail, > utility and military markets anyway? > You forgot hospitals. Oh wait, they are as gone as some of the ones above. Or did you miss that after loosing the academic side of education VMS is now starting to loose the administrative side as companies like SCT tell more and more of their customers that they are migrating. And then we have the recent nugget I got (and announced here) that DISA is dropping VMS from its stable of OSes of interest. If you know anything about DITSCAP/DIACAP you should be able to interpret the writting on the wall as far as future GOV and not just military business. But, that's OK. Just ignore it. Hey Dave, what was it you recently said about "blowing sunshine up their people's skirts". :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.609 ************************