INFO-VAX Thu, 16 Oct 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 558 Contents: Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Disabling the F6 interrupt function Re: Disabling the F6 interrupt function Re: Disabling the F6 interrupt function Re: how to configure infoserver functionality in vms 8.3 Re: media of old VMS versions OT: Contract Opening Re: PC Systems for sale Re: PC Systems for sale Re: PC Systems for sale Re: PC Systems for sale Re: PC Systems for sale Re: PC Systems for sale Re: PC Systems for sale Re: PC Systems for sale Re: PC Systems for sale Re: PC Systems for sale Re: PC Systems for sale Re: PC Systems for sale Re: PC Systems for sale Re: PC Systems for sale Random: VMS inspired Dell managed switch? Re: Random: VMS inspired Dell managed switch? Re: Random: VMS inspired Dell managed switch? Re: Status of DECUS Canada ? strange disk states Re: strange disk states Re: strange disk states Re: strange disk states Re: strange disk states Re: strange disk states ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 11:54:55 -0700 (PDT) From: PR Subject: Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Message-ID: On Oct 15, 12:30=A0am, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > In article , John Santos > > writes: > > With the disk present but unmountable, you are in this Catch-22: > > the normal default for MOUNT is /ASSIST, but OPCOM isn't running yet > > and logins aren't enabled yet, so you can't log in to reply to the > > mount request. =A0You should add /noassist to the mounts in > > systartup_vms.com, or stick them in a batch job that doesn't get > > executed until after logins are enabled and the rest of the system > > is up. =A0(But you probably need the disks mounted to start the > > application, so I would go with mount/noassist. =A0Then at least you > > can log in and fix things if a disk goes south.) > > I agree! =A0MOUNT/NOASSIST in the startup, especially if you expect thing= s > to come up automatically out of the box after, say, an emergency reboot, > power failure etc. I believe that MOUNT/NOASSIST is the default at boot time. -Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 11:56:26 -0700 (PDT) From: PR Subject: Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Message-ID: <9a143a6b-a8e8-4912-99c8-ca25335a9812@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Oct 15, 4:25=A0am, Bob Gezelter wrote: > On Oct 14, 10:13=A0pm, PR wrote: > > > > > I have a remote client that has somehow gotten himself into a mess, > > and I'm not sure how to get them out of it remotely. > > > They hired a consultant to come in an "work on the network." =A0This - > > ah - "brilliant person" apparently convinced them he just had to > > reboot the 2660. > > > He booted the 2660 system with a Linux DVD and somehow or another, > > managed to format the second drive (used for data storage) with > > Linux. =A0How is beyond me... > > > Anyway, I'm a good 500 miles away from this server physically, and > > there is a mount/system command in the systartup_vms.com file to mount > > this noe Linux formatted disk. Which obviously won't mount. > > > The system boot stalls at this mount request. I think I might be able > > to put an /ASSIST qualifier in there and cancel the mount, but I have > > to get past the mount request to do that. :) > > > Is there any easy way around this? Will just pulling the drive enable > > it to bypass? > > > I'm overnighting a freshly formatted drive that will mount, but if I > > can get this production box > > up tonight, it would be a nice thing. > > > Sneaky tricks invited. =A0:) > > > -Paul > > Paul, > > When confronted with such a situation (e.g., "system will not boot > because of an unplanned for scenario that the various startup > procedures are not designed to deal with"), my standard solutions are > the two most basic solutions. When one has access to the MP console on > an Integrity, they are particularly useful remotely. > > In the both cases, a conversational bootstrap can be set from the MP > console. This will give control to the console in SYSBOOT. At the > SYSBOOT prompt, one has a wide set of choices to address the problem. > In this case, I generally find two alternatives most useful: > > - issue a "SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN", then "CONTINUE" to do a minimal > system startup (see the "OpenVMS System Manager's Manual") > - issue a "SET /STARTUP=3DOPA0:", then "CONTINUE" to give control back > to the operator before the STARTUP process actually starts. At this > point, one has a variety of options, but care is needed, most of the > environment is not functional. I particularly recommend an immediate > SPAWN command (error handling is somewhat lacking and one can > therefore need to reboot, which is an annoyance), > > In either case, some care would have allowed you to bring the damaged > volume online (e.g., SYSMAN IO ...), fix the volume label, etc., and > then continue the normal startup process manually by invoking the > [SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]STARTUP.COM. Note that this is before all of > the logical names are defined, so it is necessary to enumerate the > path directly. > > I hope that this is helpful. > > - Bob Gezelter,http://www.rlgsc.com It is very helpful, thanks. I printing this and advice from several other folks and put it in my OPS notebook. Yours, -Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 11:58:06 -0700 (PDT) From: PR Subject: Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Message-ID: <834a99b9-929d-4f50-903d-296c437573fc@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Oct 15, 5:52=A0am, FrankS wrote: > On Oct 14, 11:51=A0pm, PR wrote: > > > Amazing isn't it that someone would think that a disk mounted /NOWRITE > > must be broken and needs to be fixed under Linux? > > (*sigh*) > > Clearly he's someone that thinks OpenVMS is a Unix/Linux variant. LOL! Very good assessment - very good indeed! -Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:02:38 -0700 (PDT) From: PR Subject: Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Message-ID: <219a8fc7-e7bc-44f9-ad16-e31ff4b17feb@p58g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Oct 15, 6:25=A0am, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > PR wrote: > > I have a remote client that has somehow gotten himself into a mess, > > and I'm not sure how to get them out of it remotely. > > > They hired a consultant to come in an "work on the network." =A0This - > > ah - "brilliant person" apparently convinced them he just had to > > reboot the 2660. > > > He booted the 2660 system with a Linux DVD and somehow or another, > > managed to format the second drive (used for data storage) with > > Linux. =A0How is beyond me... > > > Anyway, I'm a good 500 miles away from this server physically, and > > there is a mount/system command in the systartup_vms.com file to mount > > this noe Linux formatted disk. Which obviously won't mount. > > > The system boot stalls at this mount request. I think I might be able > > to put an /ASSIST qualifier in there and cancel the mount, but I have > > to get past the mount request to do that. :) > > > Is there any easy way around this? Will just pulling the drive enable > > it to bypass? > > > I'm overnighting a freshly formatted drive that will mount, but if I > > can get this production box > > up tonight, it would be a nice thing. > > > Sneaky tricks invited. =A0:) > > > -Paul > > Short of concealing a poisoned needle in the power button, there isn't a > heck of a lot you can do. > > I would write a letter to each of your people who were involved. =A0The > letter =A0would threaten instant termination for tampering in any way wit= h > your server or permitting others to do so. > > You will still probably have to fire a couple of people before the > message sinks in! > > -- > draco vulgaris I wish, but they don't work for me, and they purchased the server and software. I am providing software support and upgrades for the custom software. This is the first time there has been any problem that involved VMS, and of course, this was not VMS' fault! I'm seriously debating on whether or not to invoice them, and how much to invoice them for. You guys solved the issue and incidentally, made me look good to the customer. (Thanks!) I don't really think I should invoice them because of that. :) On the other hand, if I don't reinforce the lesson, I run the risk of it being repeated. Gads... I am not really sure of the right thing to do in this case. -Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:03:22 -0700 (PDT) From: PR Subject: Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Message-ID: <17a13015-6657-4974-b5b5-9f122b3eb1b4@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On Oct 15, 7:29=A0am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article <0f71d7a7-45cf-4f1a-8caa-24a40e8a7...@b31g2000prf.googlegroups= .com>, PR writes: > > > Is there any easy way around this? Will just pulling the drive enable > > it to bypass? > > =A0 =A0Pulling the drive will cause the mount to fail. =A0If there is > =A0 =A0sufficient error handling in systartup_vms.com, that will do as > =A0 =A0a quick fix from far away. > > =A0 =A0The real fix, of course, would require access to the console. > > =A0 =A0I assume your client doesn't know enough to carry that out for > =A0 =A0you over the phone? I was nervous asking them to pull the drive, *after* I powered the machine off via the MP console. :) -Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:03:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Message-ID: <8d8c5fd7-045c-4b41-b560-a1f1a0f8cd63@u57g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Oct 15, 3:02=A0pm, PR wrote: > On Oct 15, 6:25=A0am, "Richard B. Gilbert" > wrote: > > > > > PR wrote: > > > I have a remote client that has somehow gotten himself into a mess, > > > and I'm not sure how to get them out of it remotely. > > > > They hired a consultant to come in an "work on the network." =A0This = - > > > ah - "brilliant person" apparently convinced them he just had to > > > reboot the 2660. > > > > He booted the 2660 system with a Linux DVD and somehow or another, > > > managed to format the second drive (used for data storage) with > > > Linux. =A0How is beyond me... > > > > Anyway, I'm a good 500 miles away from this server physically, and > > > there is a mount/system command in the systartup_vms.com file to moun= t > > > this noe Linux formatted disk. Which obviously won't mount. > > > > The system boot stalls at this mount request. I think I might be able > > > to put an /ASSIST qualifier in there and cancel the mount, but I have > > > to get past the mount request to do that. :) > > > > Is there any easy way around this? Will just pulling the drive enable > > > it to bypass? > > > > I'm overnighting a freshly formatted drive that will mount, but if I > > > can get this production box > > > up tonight, it would be a nice thing. > > > > Sneaky tricks invited. =A0:) > > > > -Paul > > > Short of concealing a poisoned needle in the power button, there isn't = a > > heck of a lot you can do. > > > I would write a letter to each of your people who were involved. =A0The > > letter =A0would threaten instant termination for tampering in any way w= ith > > your server or permitting others to do so. > > > You will still probably have to fire a couple of people before the > > message sinks in! > > > -- > > draco vulgaris > > I wish, but they don't work for me, and they purchased the server and > software. I am providing software support and upgrades for the custom > software. This is the first time there has been any problem that > involved VMS, and of course, this was not VMS' fault! > > I'm seriously debating on whether or not to invoice them, and how much > to invoice them for. You guys solved the issue and incidentally, made > me look good to the customer. (Thanks!) I don't really think I should > invoice them because of that. :) > > On the other hand, if I don't reinforce the lesson, I run the risk of > it being repeated. =A0Gads... I am not really sure of the right thing to > do in this case. > > -Paul Paul, You are very welcome! The question of billing is a more sensitive one. Since our general policy invoices clients by how much time is used on their behalf (generally in units of 1/4 hour), the answer here would be to invoice for the 15-45 minutes that it took to resolve the problem. However, that is a philosophical question. - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 22:31:43 -0400 From: John Sauter Subject: Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Message-ID: PR wrote (excerpted): > > I'm seriously debating on whether or not to invoice them, and how much > to invoice them for. You guys solved the issue and incidentally, made > me look good to the customer. (Thanks!) I don't really think I should > invoice them because of that. :) > > On the other hand, if I don't reinforce the lesson, I run the risk of > it being repeated. Gads... I am not really sure of the right thing to > do in this case. > > -Paul You should definitely invoice them. I once took a call from a customer who couldn't get his NewTek Video Toaster to work. My technician was out, and the customer was just down the road, so I closed the store and went to see what was the matter. It took me five minutes to see that he had a switch set wrong, and fix the problem. I told him I'd bill his school for $10. Rather than have me do that, he paid the $10 out of his own pocket, on the spot. Once when I was responsible for a PDP-10 system, we needed a driver for a disk controller we were going to buy. I went to talk to the guys at a nearby service bureau that had previously bought the controller, about getting the driver they had written. Their technician was willing to give it to me, but I persuaded their business guy to charge us $1000 for it (including a year's worth of bug fixes--there weren't any). I wanted my management to understand that software costs money. If you don't invoice them, they will decrease their estimate of your worth. Technical support is like prostitution. You don't want to get a reputation for giving freebies. John Sauter (John_Sauter@systemeyescomputerstore.com) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 23:46:09 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Message-ID: PR wrote: > On Oct 15, 6:25 am, "Richard B. Gilbert" > wrote: >> PR wrote: >>> I have a remote client that has somehow gotten himself into a mess, >>> and I'm not sure how to get them out of it remotely. >>> They hired a consultant to come in an "work on the network." This - >>> ah - "brilliant person" apparently convinced them he just had to >>> reboot the 2660. >>> He booted the 2660 system with a Linux DVD and somehow or another, >>> managed to format the second drive (used for data storage) with >>> Linux. How is beyond me... >>> Anyway, I'm a good 500 miles away from this server physically, and >>> there is a mount/system command in the systartup_vms.com file to mount >>> this noe Linux formatted disk. Which obviously won't mount. >>> The system boot stalls at this mount request. I think I might be able >>> to put an /ASSIST qualifier in there and cancel the mount, but I have >>> to get past the mount request to do that. :) >>> Is there any easy way around this? Will just pulling the drive enable >>> it to bypass? >>> I'm overnighting a freshly formatted drive that will mount, but if I >>> can get this production box >>> up tonight, it would be a nice thing. >>> Sneaky tricks invited. :) >>> -Paul >> Short of concealing a poisoned needle in the power button, there isn't a >> heck of a lot you can do. >> >> I would write a letter to each of your people who were involved. The >> letter would threaten instant termination for tampering in any way with >> your server or permitting others to do so. >> >> You will still probably have to fire a couple of people before the >> message sinks in! >> >> -- >> draco vulgaris > > I wish, but they don't work for me, and they purchased the server and > software. I am providing software support and upgrades for the custom > software. This is the first time there has been any problem that > involved VMS, and of course, this was not VMS' fault! > > I'm seriously debating on whether or not to invoice them, and how much > to invoice them for. You guys solved the issue and incidentally, made > me look good to the customer. (Thanks!) I don't really think I should > invoice them because of that. :) > > On the other hand, if I don't reinforce the lesson, I run the risk of > it being repeated. Gads... I am not really sure of the right thing to > do in this case. > > -Paul > > I think you would be more than justified in billing them for any services you rendered! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 13:18:52 -0700 (PDT) From: tadamsmar Subject: Disabling the F6 interrupt function Message-ID: I just found out that a system I maintain is hosed if someone hits F6. It halts the interface, stops ASTs from running, stops freeing locks, halts the system and sets off the watchdog timer. I am trying to figure out how to fix the problem. The interface uses SMG. I would like to leave line editing functions on if possible, when the user is entering line mode commands. This interface traps control Y and C but F6 gets by this. I let control Y and C exit the system in situations where a unified transaction is not in progress. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:58:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: Disabling the F6 interrupt function Message-ID: <3ec23150-7337-452e-aa5a-5a864e0dde28@f77g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Oct 15, 4:18=A0pm, tadamsmar wrote: > I just found out that a system I maintain is hosed if someone hits > F6. =A0It halts the interface, stops ASTs from running, stops freeing > locks, halts the system and sets off the watchdog timer. > > I am trying to figure out how to fix the problem. =A0 The interface uses > SMG. > > I would like to leave line editing functions on if possible, when the > user is entering line mode commands. > > This interface traps control Y and C but F6 gets by this. =A0 I let > control Y and C exit the system in situations where a unified > transaction is not in progress. tadamsmar, Since this post does not mention the hardware (terminal or CPU) involved, it is difficult to tell you how to resolve this problem. That said, F6 is most likely generating a "BREAK" signal. Generally, if this is producing a ">>>" prompt, one has the hardware setting (such as on a MicroVAX) set to HALT on BREAK. - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:34:51 -0700 (PDT) From: sean@obanion.us Subject: Re: Disabling the F6 interrupt function Message-ID: <700f89ca-7281-433d-bdcd-966c8cd26ffa@d10g2000pra.googlegroups.com> Is this on a workstation, a terminal via Telnet and an emulator, on the console? In other words, I think a little more information would be useful.... Sean On Oct 15, 1:18=A0pm, tadamsmar wrote: > I just found out that a system I maintain is hosed if someone hits > F6. =A0It halts the interface, stops ASTs from running, stops freeing > locks, halts the system and sets off the watchdog timer. > > I am trying to figure out how to fix the problem. =A0 The interface uses > SMG. > > I would like to leave line editing functions on if possible, when the > user is entering line mode commands. > > This interface traps control Y and C but F6 gets by this. =A0 I let > control Y and C exit the system in situations where a unified > transaction is not in progress. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:43:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Naveen Subject: Re: how to configure infoserver functionality in vms 8.3 Message-ID: On Oct 11, 3:50=A0pm, Naveen wrote: > On Oct 9, 11:05=A0pm, H Vlems wrote: > > > > > On 9 okt, 12:28, Naveen wrote: > > > > =A0I have 14 VXT terminals (vxt 2000+) which > > > boots from 2 infoservers(infoserversw1000). Eachinfoserverhas hard- > > > disk (DK3:) which contains booting software for these vxts. We have > > > five Host systems which were on vms 7.1 Now we have upgraded our > > > hardware and OS. > > > ( DS-25 )which is operating with VMS 8.3 .My host systems are not > > > in a cluster. We want to remove infoservers . Booting software of VXT= s > > > are of version > > > 2.1 which is on hard-disk (DK3:) of infoservers. Eachinfoserverhas > > > one hard-disk (device name is DK3:) > > > Some X-session applications are running of these remote Vxts. > > > > So please help us to boot these vxts from our host systems > > > > Thanx in advance. > > > Ought to be possible, I have a VXT 2000+ and noInfoserverat all and > > it seems to boot quite well... > > As it happens, I run AXP/VMS V8.3 and DECnet phase IV (aka classic > > DECnet). > > The VXT system uses MOP to boot and even though MOP is not DECnet, the > > boot characteristics are maintained in the DECnet database. > > Indium is the DECnet nodename of the VXT 2000+: > > > NCP>sho node indium char > > > Node Volatile Characteristics as of =A09-OCT-2008 19:54:42 > > > Remote node =3D =A0 1.12 (INDIUM) > > > Service circuit =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=3D EWA-0 > > Hardware address =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =3D 08-00-2B-93-C2-F2 > > Load file =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=3D VXT$LIBRARY:VXT.SYS > > > VXT$LIBRARY is a logical name of course and points to a directory that > > contains this: > > > $ dir vxt$library > > > Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VXT$LIBRARY] > > > VXT$LAUNCH.EXE;1 =A0 =A0VXT$SERVER.COM;1 =A0 =A0VXT$WSA.EXE;1 =A0 =A0 = =A0 VXT.SYS; > > 1 > > VXT021_RELEASE_NOTES.PS;1 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 VXTCONFIG.XRM;1 = =A0 =A0 VXTEX.SYS; > > 1 > > > Total of 7 files. > > $ > > > The $64,000 question is: where did those files come from and the > > answer is that I really can't remember :-( > > Hans > > Thanx Mr. Viems, > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Thanks a lot. I have = 4 NIC cards, two of > them are on mother-board (EIA0 and EWA0) and two are on PCI slots > (EWB0, and EWC0) . Here we are using EWB0 and EWC0. EWC0 is > configrued > for TCPIP communication and EWB0 is configured for LAT/DECNET etc. > My system output is attached with this mail. My system node name is > BSHFMC, decnet address is 27.979 and IP address is 192.168.68.51. My > default gateway is configured on EWC0 with IP address 192.168.68.56 > so, please help me to configure myinfoserverservices on my host, > which is running on vms 8.3 > > >sh net > > Product: =A0DECNET =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Node: =A0BSHFMC =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 Address(es): > 27.979 > Product: =A0TCP/IP =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Node: =A0bhsfmc.bsl =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= Address(es): > 192.168.68.51 > > >mc ncl show csma-cd station * all > > =A0 =A0here in my output > =A0 =A0Name =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 csma-cd-2 > =A0 =A0communication port =A0 =A0 EWB > =A0 =A0hardware address =A0 =A0 =A0 =A000-1F-29-32-55-EB > =A0 =A0state =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0ON > =A0 =A0mac adress =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 AA-00-04-00-D3-6F > =A0 =A0receive mode =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 all multicast > > >mc lancp show config /user > > LAN Configuration: > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Parent or > =A0 Device =A0PrefCPU =A0Medium/User Version =A0Link =A0Speed =A0Duplex A= uto > BufSize =A0 MAC Address =A0Type > =A0 ------ =A0------- =A0----------- ------- =A0---- =A0----- =A0------ -= --- > ------- ---------------- =A0 ------------ =A0----------- > =A0 =A0EIA0 =A0 =A0 =A00 =A0 =A0 =A0Ethernet =A0 (nopriv) Down =A0 =A0 - = =A0 =A0 =A0- =A0 =A0Yes > 1500 =A000-02-A5-20-55-B2 =A0UTP i82559 > =A0 =A0 =A0 EIA4 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0FE DECnet-V > 1497 > =A0 =A0EWA0 =A0 =A0 =A00 =A0 =A0 =A0Ethernet =A0 (nopriv) Down =A0 =A0 - = =A0 =A0 =A0- =A0 =A0Yes > 1500 =A000-16-35-3E-EC-AA =A0UTP BCM5703 > =A0 =A0 =A0 EWA4 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0FE DECnet-V > 1497 > =A0 =A0EWB0 =A0 =A0 =A00 =A0 =A0 =A0Ethernet =A0 (nopriv) =A0Up =A0 =A0 1= 00 =A0 Full =A0 Yes > 1500 =A0AA-00-04-00-D3-6F =A0UTP BCM5703 > > 00-1F-29-32-66-61 (default) > =A0 =A0 =A0 EWB4 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0FE DECnet-V > 1497 > =A0 =A0 =A0 EWB5 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A060-03 DNA Routing > 1498 > =A0 =A0 =A0 EWB17 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 80-41 LAST > 1500 > =A0 =A0EWC0 =A0 =A0 =A00 =A0 =A0 =A0Ethernet =A0 (nopriv) Down =A0 =A0 - = =A0 =A0 =A0- =A0 =A0Yes > 1500 =A000-1F-29-32-66-42 =A0UTP BCM5703 > =A0 =A0 =A0 EWC4 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0FE DECnet-V > 1497 > > >mc ncp sh know nodes > > Known Node Volatile Summary as of 11-OCT-2008 10:48:51 > > Executor node =3D 27.979 (BSHFMC) > > State =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=3D on > Identification =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =3D DECnet-OSI for OpenVMS > > > mc ncp show node bshfmc char > > Node Volatile Characteristics as of 11-OCT-2008 > 10:51:26 > > Executor node =3D 27.979 (BSHFMC) > > Identification =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =3D DECnet-OSI for > OpenVMS > Management version =A0 =A0 =A0 =3D V4.0.0 > Incoming timer =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =3D 0 > Outgoing timer > NSP version =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=3D V4.1.0 > Maximum links =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=3D 0 > Delay factor =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =3D 0 > Delay weight =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =3D 0 > Inactivity timer =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =3D 0 > Retransmit factor =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=3D 0 > Routing version =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=3D V2.0.0 > Type =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =3D nonrouting > IV > Routing timer =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=3D 0 > Subaddresses =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =3D 0 > Broadcast routing timer =A0=3D 0 > Maximum address =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=3D 0 > Maximum circuits =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =3D 0 > Maximum cost =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =3D 0 > Maximum hops =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =3D 0 > Maximum visits =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =3D 0 > Maximum area =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =3D 0 > Max broadcast nonrouters =3D 0 > Max broadcast routers =A0 =A0=3D 0 > Maximum path splits =A0 =A0 =A0=3D 0 > Area maximum cost =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=3D 0 > Area maximum hops =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=3D 0 > Maximum buffers =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=3D 0 > Segment buffer size =A0 =A0 =A0=3D 0 > Buffer size =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=3D 0 > Pipeline quota =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =3D 0 > Alias maximum links =A0 =A0 =A0=3D 0 > Path split policy =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=3D Normal > Maximum Declared Objects =3D 0 > DNS interface =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=3D Enabled > > >mc ncp show circuit e* char > > Circuit Volatile Characteristics as > of > > Circuit =3D EIA-0 > > State =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=3D on > Service =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=3D disabled > > Circuit =3D EWA-0 > > State =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=3D on > Service =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=3D disabled > > Circuit =3D EWA-1 > > State =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=3D on > Service =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=3D disable > Circuit =3D EWA-2 > > State =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=3D on > Service =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=3D disabled > > >mc ncp sh known circ > > =A0 known circuit volatile summary at 11-oct-2008 =A010:49:51 > No information in database > > >mc latcp sh link > > =A0 =A0Link Name =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Device Name = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0State > =A0 =A0-------------- =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0----= ------------- > -------- > LAT$LINK =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 _EWB7: = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ON Dear Sir, We have upgraded our vms alpha system from vms 7.1 to VMS 8.3 on DS-25E machine. Now we want to remove infoservers as vms 8.3 has infoserver functionally. At present we are using infoserver to boot our remote VXT 2000+ terminals, but want to boot our remote terminals with our host systems directly. As you are using this system , so we want some help in this regards. So please send us some of the file contents of your files so that we can get some idea to confiure our host system. Do we neet to configure net$configure.com ---> option 8 to configure mop client? If it is so then please send the names of 1. Secondary loader -- 2. Tertiary Loader-- 3.System image-- 4. Diagonostic Image-- 5.Management Image-- 6.Script file --- please send us your a. net$mop_client_startup.ncl b. net$logical.com c.directory of mom$system: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:14:05 -0700 (PDT) From: zymurgy@technologist.com Subject: Re: media of old VMS versions Message-ID: Steven M. Schweda wrote: > From: "Richard B. Gilbert" > > > ISTR > > In the words of a very wise man, "[...] knowledge is stronger than > memory, and we should not trust the weaker." The VMS FAQ exists to > obviate recollection from a weak memory. > > > that MicroVAX 3100s have some restrictions on the size of disks > > they will boot from. > > The size restriction is on the boot disk when the system does a crash > dump. You can normally still boot from larger disks, but your data are > at risk if the system crashes, and the firmware mislocates the dump > file. Perhaps there was a reason that I suggested a 1GB disk, not anything larger. When I changed the original DEC disk in my Vaxstation 3100 for a later SCSI one, there was a problem with Tagged Command Queuing which made the disk periodically thrash itself. I never did investigate it fully, as the disk did work ok. One to watch out for if upgrading to a non DEC/larger disk. Cheers, Paul. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:22:26 -0700 (PDT) From: yyyc186 Subject: OT: Contract Opening Message-ID: <1f9fbc71-d067-4c87-9e51-df20f0351575@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com> Hello, Ordinarily I don't sub, but this client wanted me to help them find someone. Location is Chicago Loop and all work must be done on site. I need an actual independent which means you need an EIN (Employer Identification Number) as I'm not issuing a 1099 to an SSN. I can pay you $90-$98/hr. Here are the requirements. Looking to engage a C++ Contractor to help redesign and recompile our Database connectivity library wrapper which we have had for several years. This wrapper in written in C++, so we will need a person extremely proficient in C++ and Sybase Libraries for 12.5 and 15.0 for ASE and IQ. A minimum of 5 years of C++ experience Must have a strong understanding of Unix and/or Linux Establish a robust Database connectivity layer based of the most current Drivers offered by Sybase for ASE and IQ. We would like the layer to be able to take advantage of High Availability features offered in ASE and IQ Add in additional support for other third party RDBMS vendors into this library. ie MS-SQL, Oracle, and MySQL. Build a layer to handle the Sybase Error messages in correct fashion for things like DeadLock, Log fulls, Security, etc. We would require a Connectivity test package to confirm the Layer is properly built and can establish connections. We would like the layer to be called with a debug mode to assist in troubleshooting efforts. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Oct 2008 18:10:21 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Message-ID: <6lmq0dFd01o7U1@mid.individual.net> In article <00A81252.9ED4222D@sendspamhere.org>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > In article <22dc096d-6865-406e-bc77-8eaa2762cb6b@75g2000hso.googlegroups.com>, johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk writes: >>On Oct 15, 3:33 pm, "David Turner, islandco.com" >> wrote: >>> Very quick >>> >>> NEW Island Datastore P2Duo Syhstems >>> >>> These have become very popular with our customers as we can still sell NEW >>> XP Pro with these >>> >>> Intel P2CoreDuo 3Ghz Minitower >>> ASUS Motherboard >>> 2GB Memory (2 x 1GB DDR2) >>> 512MB Nvidia Graphics >>> 250GB SATAII Disk >>> CD/DVDRW-DL >>> On Board Gigabit >>> Windows XP Pro >>> Keytronic Heavy Duty Keyboard and Mouse (Old IBM Style) >>> No Monitor >>> >>> Total Per System $820 >>> >>> Shipping within the US: $26 >>> >>> 3 Year Warranty >>> >>> -- >>> David B Turner >>> >>> ============================================= >>> >>> Island Computers US Corp >>> PO Box 86 >>> Tybee GA 31328 >>> >>> Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332 x201, Mobile x251 >>> Email: dtur...@islandco.com >>> International & Local: (001)- 404-806-7749 >>> Fax: 912 786 8505 >>> Web:www.islandco.com >>> >>> ============================================= >> >>For those who don't mind slumming it, both HP and Dell websites are >>quite happy to sell desktops with Windows XP support. Eg Dell Optiplex >>can still be bought with XP pre-installed for a small additional fee, >>and HP/Compaq dx-series desktops sold with Vista Business comes with >>XP Pro downgrade rights and support (Vista Business brings the >>downgrade rights, whether the box is supported with XP is decided by >>the box builder). >> >>And for those who don't mind a bit of DIY, Windows XP OEM licence >>+media should still be available (at least while stocks last) from the >>usual retail PCbuilder outlets. >> >>Vista still isn't mandatory yet, much to their disappointment. > > ...and this has "WHAT?" to do with VMS??? Why, abso-fucking-lutely nothing! > > Take it to comp.system.WEENDOZE.WANKERZ (aka. comp.system.WEENDOZE.advocacy) Oh bullshit. We just went thru this whole discussion with numerous of the VMS faithful openly admiting that you need another non-VMS system in order to even bring up something as simple as a hobbyist box. Not being int he market for yet another PC I didn't read enough of the message to know if it was a good deal or not, but knowing Island, it probably was. Or are you just mad because they didn't offer Macs as well? It's time to accept that the days of VT100's are over and you really need something else just to install VMS. It might as well be a PC running Windows as anything else. And, yes, I have a PC with a bunch of serial ports on the back providing consoles to my PDP-11's. It is, however not running Windows or OSX. :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 18:36:19 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Message-ID: In article <6lmq0dFd01o7U1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu says... > In article <00A81252.9ED4222D@sendspamhere.org>, > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > > In article <22dc096d-6865-406e-bc77-8eaa2762cb6b@75g2000hso.googlegroups.com>, johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk writes: > >>On Oct 15, 3:33 pm, "David Turner, islandco.com" > >> wrote: > >>> Very quick > >>> > >>> NEW Island Datastore P2Duo Syhstems > >>> > >>> These have become very popular with our customers as we can still sell NEW > >>> XP Pro with these > >>> > >>> Intel P2CoreDuo 3Ghz Minitower > >>> ASUS Motherboard > >>> 2GB Memory (2 x 1GB DDR2) > >>> 512MB Nvidia Graphics > >>> 250GB SATAII Disk > >>> CD/DVDRW-DL > >>> On Board Gigabit > >>> Windows XP Pro > >>> Keytronic Heavy Duty Keyboard and Mouse (Old IBM Style) > >>> No Monitor > >>> > >>> Total Per System $820 > >>> > >>> Shipping within the US: $26 > >>> > >>> 3 Year Warranty > >>> > >>> -- > >>> David B Turner > >>> > >>> ============================================= > >>> > >>> Island Computers US Corp > >>> PO Box 86 > >>> Tybee GA 31328 > >>> > >>> Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332 x201, Mobile x251 > >>> Email: dtur...@islandco.com > >>> International & Local: (001)- 404-806-7749 > >>> Fax: 912 786 8505 > >>> Web:www.islandco.com > >>> > >>> ============================================= > >> > >>For those who don't mind slumming it, both HP and Dell websites are > >>quite happy to sell desktops with Windows XP support. Eg Dell Optiplex > >>can still be bought with XP pre-installed for a small additional fee, > >>and HP/Compaq dx-series desktops sold with Vista Business comes with > >>XP Pro downgrade rights and support (Vista Business brings the > >>downgrade rights, whether the box is supported with XP is decided by > >>the box builder). > >> > >>And for those who don't mind a bit of DIY, Windows XP OEM licence > >>+media should still be available (at least while stocks last) from the > >>usual retail PCbuilder outlets. > >> > >>Vista still isn't mandatory yet, much to their disappointment. > > > > ...and this has "WHAT?" to do with VMS??? Why, abso-fucking-lutely nothing! > > > > Take it to comp.system.WEENDOZE.WANKERZ (aka. comp.system.WEENDOZE.advocacy) > > Oh bullshit. We just went thru this whole discussion with numerous > of the VMS faithful openly admiting that you need another non-VMS > system in order to even bring up something as simple as a hobbyist > box. Talk about bullshit! This statement is utter crap. All you need is a terminal. Though hyperterminal on a PC would do, it is the worst possible choice. What else would you need a PC for? (A Mac, Linux, Unix, or another, all-ready running, VMS system would do as well or better.) Not being int he market for yet another PC I didn't read enough > of the message to know if it was a good deal or not, but knowing Island, > it probably was. Or are you just mad because they didn't offer Macs > as well? It's time to accept that the days of VT100's are over and > you really need something else just to install VMS. It might as well > be a PC running Windows as anything else. And, yes, I have a PC with > a bunch of serial ports on the back providing consoles to my PDP-11's. > It is, however not running Windows or OSX. :-) > It might asxx wellxxxx better be *anything* than a M$ PC. And you certainly don't need either a terminal nor a terminal emulator if you have a graphics-capable VMS box plus KVM. > bill > > -- John ------------------------------ Date: 15 Oct 2008 18:48:58 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Message-ID: <6lms8pFd34alU1@mid.individual.net> In article , John Santos writes: > In article <6lmq0dFd01o7U1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu > says... >> In article <00A81252.9ED4222D@sendspamhere.org>, >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >> > In article <22dc096d-6865-406e-bc77-8eaa2762cb6b@75g2000hso.googlegroups.com>, johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk writes: >> >>On Oct 15, 3:33 pm, "David Turner, islandco.com" >> >> wrote: >> >>> Very quick >> >>> >> >>> NEW Island Datastore P2Duo Syhstems >> >>> >> >>> These have become very popular with our customers as we can still sell NEW >> >>> XP Pro with these >> >>> >> >>> Intel P2CoreDuo 3Ghz Minitower >> >>> ASUS Motherboard >> >>> 2GB Memory (2 x 1GB DDR2) >> >>> 512MB Nvidia Graphics >> >>> 250GB SATAII Disk >> >>> CD/DVDRW-DL >> >>> On Board Gigabit >> >>> Windows XP Pro >> >>> Keytronic Heavy Duty Keyboard and Mouse (Old IBM Style) >> >>> No Monitor >> >>> >> >>> Total Per System $820 >> >>> >> >>> Shipping within the US: $26 >> >>> >> >>> 3 Year Warranty >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> David B Turner >> >>> >> >>> ============================================= >> >>> >> >>> Island Computers US Corp >> >>> PO Box 86 >> >>> Tybee GA 31328 >> >>> >> >>> Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332 x201, Mobile x251 >> >>> Email: dtur...@islandco.com >> >>> International & Local: (001)- 404-806-7749 >> >>> Fax: 912 786 8505 >> >>> Web:www.islandco.com >> >>> >> >>> ============================================= >> >> >> >>For those who don't mind slumming it, both HP and Dell websites are >> >>quite happy to sell desktops with Windows XP support. Eg Dell Optiplex >> >>can still be bought with XP pre-installed for a small additional fee, >> >>and HP/Compaq dx-series desktops sold with Vista Business comes with >> >>XP Pro downgrade rights and support (Vista Business brings the >> >>downgrade rights, whether the box is supported with XP is decided by >> >>the box builder). >> >> >> >>And for those who don't mind a bit of DIY, Windows XP OEM licence >> >>+media should still be available (at least while stocks last) from the >> >>usual retail PCbuilder outlets. >> >> >> >>Vista still isn't mandatory yet, much to their disappointment. >> > >> > ...and this has "WHAT?" to do with VMS??? Why, abso-fucking-lutely nothing! >> > >> > Take it to comp.system.WEENDOZE.WANKERZ (aka. comp.system.WEENDOZE.advocacy) >> >> Oh bullshit. We just went thru this whole discussion with numerous >> of the VMS faithful openly admiting that you need another non-VMS >> system in order to even bring up something as simple as a hobbyist >> box. > > > Talk about bullshit! This statement is utter crap. All you need is a > terminal. Did you sleep thru the last two or three weeks here? We just went over this. Remember the thread about cut-and-paste for inputing PAKS? Hard to do on a terminal. Of copurse you CAN do it all on a terminal, but nobody in this day and age is likely to be willing to do that. It's another of them there reality-checks that seem to evade so many people here. > Though hyperterminal on a PC would do, it is the worst > possible choice. Yes, it is. :-) > What else would you need a PC for? Putty on a PC. :-) > (A Mac, Linux, > Unix, Stil requires another system running another OS, n'est-ce pas? > or another, all-ready running, VMS system would do as well or > better.) And that's the same original problem only recursive. :-) > > > Not being int he market for yet another PC I didn't read enough >> of the message to know if it was a good deal or not, but knowing Island, >> it probably was. Or are you just mad because they didn't offer Macs >> as well? It's time to accept that the days of VT100's are over and >> you really need something else just to install VMS. It might as well >> be a PC running Windows as anything else. And, yes, I have a PC with >> a bunch of serial ports on the back providing consoles to my PDP-11's. >> It is, however not running Windows or OSX. :-) >> > > It might asxx wellxxxx better be *anything* than a M$ PC. > > And you certainly don't need either a terminal nor a terminal emulator > if you have a graphics-capable VMS box plus KVM. Graphics don't work until after you enter the PAK. We just went all over that, too. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:03:24 -0400 From: "David Turner, islandco.com" Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Message-ID: <_3rJk.46767$XT1.3622@bignews5.bellsouth.net> I AM SORRY - We have been selling a lot of these and I know the pricing is better than DELL AND without all the crap they load on them to get you to bite. I just know that XP Pro systems are getting harder to find and as you guys all tend to make decisions for the companies where you work I thought it was a good little deal. I am sure you all hate to admit it but methinks you are reading this message on an XP box. Or maybe MAC. If I am not mistaken, most desktop users are PC users connected in this case to a VMS Server?!?! -- David B Turner ============================================= Island Computers US Corp PO Box 86 Tybee GA 31328 Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332 x201, Mobile x251 Email: dturner@islandco.com International & Local: (001)- 404-806-7749 Fax: 912 786 8505 Web: www.islandco.com ============================================= "Bill Gunshannon" wrote in message news:6lms8pFd34alU1@mid.individual.net... > In article , > John Santos writes: >> In article <6lmq0dFd01o7U1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu >> says... >>> In article <00A81252.9ED4222D@sendspamhere.org>, >>> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >>> > In article >>> > <22dc096d-6865-406e-bc77-8eaa2762cb6b@75g2000hso.googlegroups.com>, >>> > johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk writes: >>> >>On Oct 15, 3:33 pm, "David Turner, islandco.com" >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> Very quick >>> >>> >>> >>> NEW Island Datastore P2Duo Syhstems >>> >>> >>> >>> These have become very popular with our customers as we can still >>> >>> sell NEW >>> >>> XP Pro with these >>> >>> >>> >>> Intel P2CoreDuo 3Ghz Minitower >>> >>> ASUS Motherboard >>> >>> 2GB Memory (2 x 1GB DDR2) >>> >>> 512MB Nvidia Graphics >>> >>> 250GB SATAII Disk >>> >>> CD/DVDRW-DL >>> >>> On Board Gigabit >>> >>> Windows XP Pro >>> >>> Keytronic Heavy Duty Keyboard and Mouse (Old IBM Style) >>> >>> No Monitor >>> >>> >>> >>> Total Per System $820 >>> >>> >>> >>> Shipping within the US: $26 >>> >>> >>> >>> 3 Year Warranty >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> David B Turner >>> >>> >>> >>> ============================================= >>> >>> >>> >>> Island Computers US Corp >>> >>> PO Box 86 >>> >>> Tybee GA 31328 >>> >>> >>> >>> Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332 x201, Mobile x251 >>> >>> Email: dtur...@islandco.com >>> >>> International & Local: (001)- 404-806-7749 >>> >>> Fax: 912 786 8505 >>> >>> Web:www.islandco.com >>> >>> >>> >>> ============================================= >>> >> >>> >>For those who don't mind slumming it, both HP and Dell websites are >>> >>quite happy to sell desktops with Windows XP support. Eg Dell Optiplex >>> >>can still be bought with XP pre-installed for a small additional fee, >>> >>and HP/Compaq dx-series desktops sold with Vista Business comes with >>> >>XP Pro downgrade rights and support (Vista Business brings the >>> >>downgrade rights, whether the box is supported with XP is decided by >>> >>the box builder). >>> >> >>> >>And for those who don't mind a bit of DIY, Windows XP OEM licence >>> >>+media should still be available (at least while stocks last) from the >>> >>usual retail PCbuilder outlets. >>> >> >>> >>Vista still isn't mandatory yet, much to their disappointment. >>> > >>> > ...and this has "WHAT?" to do with VMS??? Why, abso-fucking-lutely >>> > nothing! >>> > >>> > Take it to comp.system.WEENDOZE.WANKERZ (aka. >>> > comp.system.WEENDOZE.advocacy) >>> >>> Oh bullshit. We just went thru this whole discussion with numerous >>> of the VMS faithful openly admiting that you need another non-VMS >>> system in order to even bring up something as simple as a hobbyist >>> box. >> >> >> Talk about bullshit! This statement is utter crap. All you need is a >> terminal. > > Did you sleep thru the last two or three weeks here? We just went over > this. Remember the thread about cut-and-paste for inputing PAKS? Hard > to do on a terminal. Of copurse you CAN do it all on a terminal, but > nobody in this day and age is likely to be willing to do that. It's > another of them there reality-checks that seem to evade so many people > here. > >> Though hyperterminal on a PC would do, it is the worst >> possible choice. > > Yes, it is. :-) > >> What else would you need a PC for? > > Putty on a PC. :-) > >> (A Mac, Linux, >> Unix, > > Stil requires another system running another OS, n'est-ce pas? > >> or another, all-ready running, VMS system would do as well or >> better.) > > And that's the same original problem only recursive. :-) > >> >> >> Not being int he market for yet another PC I didn't read enough >>> of the message to know if it was a good deal or not, but knowing Island, >>> it probably was. Or are you just mad because they didn't offer Macs >>> as well? It's time to accept that the days of VT100's are over and >>> you really need something else just to install VMS. It might as well >>> be a PC running Windows as anything else. And, yes, I have a PC with >>> a bunch of serial ports on the back providing consoles to my PDP-11's. >>> It is, however not running Windows or OSX. :-) >>> >> >> It might asxx wellxxxx better be *anything* than a M$ PC. >> >> And you certainly don't need either a terminal nor a terminal emulator >> if you have a graphics-capable VMS box plus KVM. > > Graphics don't work until after you enter the PAK. We just went > all over that, too. > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:13:51 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Message-ID: In article <6lms8pFd34alU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu says... > In article , > John Santos writes: > > In article <6lmq0dFd01o7U1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu > > says... > >> In article <00A81252.9ED4222D@sendspamhere.org>, > >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > >> > In article <22dc096d-6865-406e-bc77-8eaa2762cb6b@75g2000hso.googlegroups.com>, johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk writes: > >> >>On Oct 15, 3:33 pm, "David Turner, islandco.com" > >> >> wrote: > >> >>> Very quick > >> >>> > >> >>> NEW Island Datastore P2Duo Syhstems > >> >>> > >> >>> These have become very popular with our customers as we can still sell NEW > >> >>> XP Pro with these > >> >>> > >> >>> Intel P2CoreDuo 3Ghz Minitower > >> >>> ASUS Motherboard > >> >>> 2GB Memory (2 x 1GB DDR2) > >> >>> 512MB Nvidia Graphics > >> >>> 250GB SATAII Disk > >> >>> CD/DVDRW-DL > >> >>> On Board Gigabit > >> >>> Windows XP Pro > >> >>> Keytronic Heavy Duty Keyboard and Mouse (Old IBM Style) > >> >>> No Monitor > >> >>> > >> >>> Total Per System $820 > >> >>> > >> >>> Shipping within the US: $26 > >> >>> > >> >>> 3 Year Warranty > >> >>> > >> >>> -- > >> >>> David B Turner > >> >>> > >> >>> ============================================= > >> >>> > >> >>> Island Computers US Corp > >> >>> PO Box 86 > >> >>> Tybee GA 31328 > >> >>> > >> >>> Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332 x201, Mobile x251 > >> >>> Email: dtur...@islandco.com > >> >>> International & Local: (001)- 404-806-7749 > >> >>> Fax: 912 786 8505 > >> >>> Web:www.islandco.com > >> >>> > >> >>> ============================================= > >> >> > >> >>For those who don't mind slumming it, both HP and Dell websites are > >> >>quite happy to sell desktops with Windows XP support. Eg Dell Optiplex > >> >>can still be bought with XP pre-installed for a small additional fee, > >> >>and HP/Compaq dx-series desktops sold with Vista Business comes with > >> >>XP Pro downgrade rights and support (Vista Business brings the > >> >>downgrade rights, whether the box is supported with XP is decided by > >> >>the box builder). > >> >> > >> >>And for those who don't mind a bit of DIY, Windows XP OEM licence > >> >>+media should still be available (at least while stocks last) from the > >> >>usual retail PCbuilder outlets. > >> >> > >> >>Vista still isn't mandatory yet, much to their disappointment. > >> > > >> > ...and this has "WHAT?" to do with VMS??? Why, abso-fucking-lutely nothing! > >> > > >> > Take it to comp.system.WEENDOZE.WANKERZ (aka. comp.system.WEENDOZE.advocacy) > >> > >> Oh bullshit. We just went thru this whole discussion with numerous > >> of the VMS faithful openly admiting that you need another non-VMS > >> system in order to even bring up something as simple as a hobbyist > >> box. > > > > > > Talk about bullshit! This statement is utter crap. All you need is a > > terminal. > > Did you sleep thru the last two or three weeks here? We just went over It was something called "work." I don't know if you are familiar with it. It takes up a lot of time. On the other hand, it does pay well. The net result was a recapture by VMS (3 Itaniums) of an application at at a major telecommunications company that had previously migrated to Unix. :-) They are *very* *very* happy. > this. Remember the thread about cut-and-paste for inputing PAKS? Hard > to do on a terminal. Of copurse you CAN do it all on a terminal, but > nobody in this day and age is likely to be willing to do that. It's > another of them there reality-checks that seem to evade so many people > here. > All you need to enter 2 PAK's (VMS Base license (either VAX-VMS or OPENVMS-ALPHA) and TCPIP (UCX) and then you can email the rest of them to the VMS system, export the .com file from VMS mail, and execute it to get all the rest of the licenses. (I don't think you need the OPENVMS- ALPHA-USER PAK to run from the console.) > > Though hyperterminal on a PC would do, it is the worst > > possible choice. > > Yes, it is. :-) > > > What else would you need a PC for? > > Putty on a PC. :-) > > > (A Mac, Linux, > > Unix, > > Stil requires another system running another OS, n'est-ce pas? > > > or another, all-ready running, VMS system would do as well or > > better.) > > And that's the same original problem only recursive. :-) Or get a frigging terminal. They're easily obtainable on Ebay. A windows/linux box without a monitor, keyboard and mouse is equally crippled. Level playing field here. > > > > > > > Not being int he market for yet another PC I didn't read enough > >> of the message to know if it was a good deal or not, but knowing Island, > >> it probably was. Or are you just mad because they didn't offer Macs > >> as well? It's time to accept that the days of VT100's are over and > >> you really need something else just to install VMS. It might as well > >> be a PC running Windows as anything else. And, yes, I have a PC with > >> a bunch of serial ports on the back providing consoles to my PDP-11's. > >> It is, however not running Windows or OSX. :-) > >> > > > > It might asxx wellxxxx better be *anything* than a M$ PC. > > > > And you certainly don't need either a terminal nor a terminal emulator > > if you have a graphics-capable VMS box plus KVM. > > Graphics don't work until after you enter the PAK. We just went > all over that, too. > Okay, 1) you don't need DECwindows running to use the console in glass TTY mode, and 2) that's one more PAK, or 3. They aren't *that* hard to type in. Certainly a lot quicker and less work than downloading and installing the hundreds of patches required by a virgin M$ install and rebooting it about every third patch. > bill > > -- John ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:25:04 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Message-ID: John Santos wrote: > Talk about bullshit! This statement is utter crap. All you need is a > terminal. Though hyperterminal on a PC would do, it is the worst > possible choice. Correct, Putty or (in my case) Reflection is much better. > What else would you need a PC for? Mail, web, word-processing, calculating, programming (not VMS, PIC microcontrollers), worktime reporting, invoicing my customers, image/picture manegement. Just about everyting else apart from mangaging the VMS servers. Including the VPN Citrix client tools to be able to access my clients sites at all. This "VMS-only" idea is making VMS more harm then anything else. Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:51:52 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Message-ID: In article , jan- erik.soderholm@telia.com says... > John Santos wrote: > > > Talk about bullshit! This statement is utter crap. All you need is a > > terminal. Though hyperterminal on a PC would do, it is the worst > > possible choice. > > Correct, Putty or (in my case) Reflection is much better. > > > What else would you need a PC for? > > Mail, web, word-processing, calculating, programming (not VMS, > PIC microcontrollers), worktime reporting, invoicing my customers, > image/picture manegement. Just about everyting else apart from > mangaging the VMS servers. Including the VPN Citrix client > tools to be able to access my clients sites at all. > The statement was "A VMS system requires a PC (or other non-VMS computer) to install and operate it." None of those things are required to install or operate a VMS system (except maybe mail to download the PAKs, but then you don't need anything but VMS to use mail), and most of them can be done just fine on a VMS system. I do mail with Pine, web browsing with Mozilla (admittedly far from perfect), calculating, programming and worktime reporting on VMS. My company uses something else for invoicing, and I don't do much imaging for work, so it's irrelevent. VPN is done by the routers. (VMS is my primary DNS server, amongst many other functions.) BTW, if you are going to dispute a statement that something is incorrect, it would be very helpful *NOT* to snip the original disputed statement! > This "VMS-only" idea is making VMS more harm then anything else. > I'm not asserting the VMS-only is ideal or the only "worthy" situation. I'm disputing the claim that it is *never* possible. This is called the fallacy of the excluded middle. > Jan-Erik. > -- John ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:57:18 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Message-ID: <00A8126F.8C11E173@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <6lmq0dFd01o7U1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >{...snip...} > >Oh bullshit. We just went thru this whole discussion with numerous >of the VMS faithful openly admiting that you need another non-VMS >system in order to even bring up something as simple as a hobbyist >box. Not being int he market for yet another PC I didn't read enough That's bullshit and you know it. I have VAX, Alpha and Itanium boxes here and NO WEENDOZE. All three are happily humming along without some brain- damaged PoS from Micro$haft in the fold. >of the message to know if it was a good deal or not, but knowing Island, >it probably was. Or are you just mad because they didn't offer Macs >as well? It's time to accept that the days of VT100's are over and >you really need something else just to install VMS. It might as well >be a PC running Windows as anything else. And, yes, I have a PC with >a bunch of serial ports on the back providing consoles to my PDP-11's. >It is, however not running Windows or OSX. :-) My comment was directed towards John's follow-up and not at David's advert. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:03:31 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Message-ID: <00A81270.6A36F548@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <_3rJk.46767$XT1.3622@bignews5.bellsouth.net>, "David Turner, islandco.com" writes: >I AM SORRY - We have been selling a lot of these and I know the pricing is >better than DELL AND without all the crap >they load on them to get you to bite. > >I just know that XP Pro systems are getting harder to find and as you guys >all tend to make decisions for the companies >where you work I thought it was a good little deal. > >I am sure you all hate to admit it but methinks you are reading this message >on an XP box. Or maybe MAC. >If I am not mistaken, most desktop users are PC users connected in this case >to a VMS Server?!?! Newsrdr and VMS! Weendoze: never had it; never will! David, my reply was direct at the follow-up and not at your advert. If there was a *guarantee* that NO BILLY-TAX would be paid for the item you advertised -- perhaps, even a discount without that commercial virus col- lector product installed -- I might buy one. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:14:21 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Message-ID: <00A81271.ED81A313@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: >John Santos wrote: > >> Talk about bullshit! This statement is utter crap. All you need is a >> terminal. Though hyperterminal on a PC would do, it is the worst >> possible choice. > >Correct, Putty or (in my case) Reflection is much better. > >> What else would you need a PC for? > >Mail, Mail is available on my OS X Mac or there is Evolution Mail on my Ubuntu Linux. I still read most mail on VMS and only forward crap which has an attachment to one of the aformentioned. > web, Safari on my OS X Mac and Firefox on the Ununtu Linux. >word-processing, Pages on my OS X Mac and OpenOffice Word Processor on my Ubuntu Linux. >calculating, Calulators on my OS X Mac amd on my Ubuntu Linux. Numbers on my OS X Mac and OpenOffice Spreadsheet on my Ubuntu Linux. I've never in my life had to create a spreadsheet. > programming (not VMS, My only other programming is web stuff which I can do on VMS, OSX or Ubuntu. >PIC microcontrollers), worktime reporting, invoicing my customers, Invoicing... QuickBooks on Mac OS X. >image/picture manegement. Just about everyting else apart from There's only one app for that. As a photographer, I use Aperture. >mangaging the VMS servers. Including the VPN Citrix client >tools to be able to access my clients sites at all. > >This "VMS-only" idea is making VMS more harm then anything else. Who said VMS-only? Stop pushing the WEENDOZE only shit. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 16:43:58 -0700 (PDT) From: johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Message-ID: <8c7985cf-03c9-4b8d-a09f-4ebd76928a14@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com> On Oct 15, 9:57 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <6lmq0dFd01o...@mid.individual.net>, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > >{...snip...} > > >Oh bullshit. We just went thru this whole discussion with numerous > >of the VMS faithful openly admiting that you need another non-VMS > >system in order to even bring up something as simple as a hobbyist > >box. Not being int he market for yet another PC I didn't read enough > > That's bullshit and you know it. I have VAX, Alpha and Itanium boxes here > and NO WEENDOZE. All three are happily humming along without some brain- > damaged PoS from Micro$haft in the fold. > > >of the message to know if it was a good deal or not, but knowing Island, > >it probably was. Or are you just mad because they didn't offer Macs > >as well? It's time to accept that the days of VT100's are over and > >you really need something else just to install VMS. It might as well > >be a PC running Windows as anything else. And, yes, I have a PC with > >a bunch of serial ports on the back providing consoles to my PDP-11's. > >It is, however not running Windows or OSX. :-) > > My comment was directed towards John's follow-up and not at David's advert. > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection > no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) > > Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside > of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright > notice, disclaimer and quotations. "I have VAX, Alpha and Itanium boxes here and NO WEENDOZE. " Good for you. Unfortunately, you're not yet typical of the IT community at large, where Windows is often still considered acceptable (sometimes it's The One True Way, sometimes it's tolerated as a necessary evil). Perhaps you'd rather I'd stayed quiet and that readers in mixed VMS/ Windows environments continued living with the MS-sourced but widely spread deception that Vista was now the only Windows OS readily available on volume commercial x86 boxes? Personally, I'd prefer that those readers here who are stuck with Windows boxes were able to make a fully informed decision before buying new ones. Those whose IT/x86 suppliers are toeing the MS lie/ line ("it's Vista; there is no alternative") will not be able to make a fully informed decision unless they know from other sources that XP is still readily available for now. Island are one possible supplier of Windows boxes without Vista but for various reasons Island's deal may not be appropriate for everyone. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2008 00:12:09 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Message-ID: <6lnf6pFdb8tdU1@mid.individual.net> In article <00A8126F.8C11E173@sendspamhere.org>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > In article <6lmq0dFd01o7U1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>{...snip...} >> >>Oh bullshit. We just went thru this whole discussion with numerous >>of the VMS faithful openly admiting that you need another non-VMS >>system in order to even bring up something as simple as a hobbyist >>box. Not being int he market for yet another PC I didn't read enough > > That's bullshit and you know it. I have VAX, Alpha and Itanium boxes here > and NO WEENDOZE. All three are happily humming along without some brain- > damaged PoS from Micro$haft in the fold. Still, not just VMS, is it? So, you think Windows is a piece of shit and I think Macs are. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 00:59:21 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Message-ID: <00A81291.5BFF5A46@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <8c7985cf-03c9-4b8d-a09f-4ebd76928a14@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com>, johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk writes: >On Oct 15, 9:57 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> In article <6lmq0dFd01o...@mid.individual.net>, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >{...snip...} >> >> >Oh bullshit. We just went thru this whole discussion with numerous >> >of the VMS faithful openly admiting that you need another non-VMS >> >system in order to even bring up something as simple as a hobbyist >> >box. Not being int he market for yet another PC I didn't read enough >> >> That's bullshit and you know it. I have VAX, Alpha and Itanium boxes here >> and NO WEENDOZE. All three are happily humming along without some brain- >> damaged PoS from Micro$haft in the fold. >> >> >of the message to know if it was a good deal or not, but knowing Island, >> >it probably was. Or are you just mad because they didn't offer Macs >> >as well? It's time to accept that the days of VT100's are over and >> >you really need something else just to install VMS. It might as well >> >be a PC running Windows as anything else. And, yes, I have a PC with >> >a bunch of serial ports on the back providing consoles to my PDP-11's. >> >It is, however not running Windows or OSX. :-) >> >> My comment was directed towards John's follow-up and not at David's advert. >> >> -- >> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >> >> ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection >> no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) >> >> Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside >> of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright >> notice, disclaimer and quotations. > >"I have VAX, Alpha and Itanium boxes here and NO WEENDOZE. " > >Good for you. Unfortunately, you're not yet typical of the IT >community at large, where Windows is often still considered acceptable >(sometimes it's The One True Way, sometimes it's tolerated as a >necessary evil). > >Perhaps you'd rather I'd stayed quiet and that readers in mixed VMS/ >Windows environments continued living with the MS-sourced but widely >spread deception that Vista was now the only Windows OS readily >available on volume commercial x86 boxes? > >Personally, I'd prefer that those readers here who are stuck with >Windows boxes were able to make a fully informed decision before >buying new ones. Those whose IT/x86 suppliers are toeing the MS lie/ >line ("it's Vista; there is no alternative") will not be able to make >a fully informed decision unless they know from other sources that XP >is still readily available for now. Island are one possible supplier >of Windows boxes without Vista but for various reasons Island's deal >may not be appropriate for everyone. Then let them go read comp.system.WEENDOZE.WANKERZ. We're all quite aware of the shortcomings of Visual Interface Similar To Apple's. I don't think we need a perpetual billboarding of Billzebub's inferior warez here. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 01:00:39 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Message-ID: <00A81291.8B06FBBD@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <6lnf6pFdb8tdU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >In article <00A8126F.8C11E173@sendspamhere.org>, > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >> In article <6lmq0dFd01o7U1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>>{...snip...} >>> >>>Oh bullshit. We just went thru this whole discussion with numerous >>>of the VMS faithful openly admiting that you need another non-VMS >>>system in order to even bring up something as simple as a hobbyist >>>box. Not being int he market for yet another PC I didn't read enough >> >> That's bullshit and you know it. I have VAX, Alpha and Itanium boxes here >> and NO WEENDOZE. All three are happily humming along without some brain- >> damaged PoS from Micro$haft in the fold. > >Still, not just VMS, is it? So, you think Windows is a piece of shit >and I think Macs are. ...and here, all this time, I thought you liked unix. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:00:51 -0700 (PDT) From: sampsal@gmail.com Subject: Random: VMS inspired Dell managed switch? Message-ID: <0799490b-cac1-408d-9d46-07e532ccc29b@e17g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> I've just ordered a Dell PowerConnect 5448 and was reading through the manual and came across the following which I found quite intriguing / amusing: 01-Jan-xxxx 01:01:59 %INIT-I-InitCompleted: Initialization task is completed 01-Jan-xxxx 01:02:00 %SNMP-I-CDBITEMSNUM: Number of running configuration items loaded: 0 01-Jan-xxxx 01:02:00 %SNMP-I-CDBITEMSNUM: Number of startup configuration items loaded: 0 01-Jan-xxxx 01:02:01 %Box-I-SFP-PRESENT-CHNG: unit_id 1 SFP 0 status is not present. Interesting message code format, no? And the date is of course in a very VMS-like format too. Sampsa ------------------------------ Date: 15 Oct 2008 19:29:43 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Random: VMS inspired Dell managed switch? Message-ID: <6lmul7Fcu4vcU1@mid.individual.net> In article <0799490b-cac1-408d-9d46-07e532ccc29b@e17g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, sampsal@gmail.com writes: > I've just ordered a Dell PowerConnect 5448 and was reading through the > manual and came across the following which I found quite intriguing / > amusing: > > 01-Jan-xxxx 01:01:59 %INIT-I-InitCompleted: Initialization task is > completed > 01-Jan-xxxx 01:02:00 %SNMP-I-CDBITEMSNUM: Number of running > configuration items > loaded: 0 > 01-Jan-xxxx 01:02:00 %SNMP-I-CDBITEMSNUM: Number of startup > configuration items > loaded: 0 > 01-Jan-xxxx 01:02:01 %Box-I-SFP-PRESENT-CHNG: unit_id 1 SFP 0 status > is not present. > > > Interesting message code format, no? And the date is of course in a > very VMS-like format too. Could be because the box appears to be using something connected to VxWorks5.5.1. Wasn't/isn't that an offshoot of VMS? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 13:16:43 -0700 (PDT) From: johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: Random: VMS inspired Dell managed switch? Message-ID: On Oct 15, 8:29 pm, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article <0799490b-cac1-408d-9d46-07e532ccc...@e17g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > samp...@gmail.com writes: > > > > > I've just ordered a Dell PowerConnect 5448 and was reading through the > > manual and came across the following which I found quite intriguing / > > amusing: > > > 01-Jan-xxxx 01:01:59 %INIT-I-InitCompleted: Initialization task is > > completed > > 01-Jan-xxxx 01:02:00 %SNMP-I-CDBITEMSNUM: Number of running > > configuration items > > loaded: 0 > > 01-Jan-xxxx 01:02:00 %SNMP-I-CDBITEMSNUM: Number of startup > > configuration items > > loaded: 0 > > 01-Jan-xxxx 01:02:01 %Box-I-SFP-PRESENT-CHNG: unit_id 1 SFP 0 status > > is not present. > > > Interesting message code format, no? And the date is of course in a > > very VMS-like format too. > > Could be because the box appears to be using something connected to > VxWorks5.5.1. Wasn't/isn't that an offshoot of VMS? > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > billg...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include No connection between VMS and VxWorks that I'm aware of, not even when I was working in DEC UK embedded+realtime team (before they were sold off). Maybe you're confusing VxWorks with VAXELN. When DEC HQ decided distributed realtime executive VAXELN (which used VMS as the development environment and did have a few VMS-like features and compatibilities) wasn't going to be implemented on Alpha, they decided to offer a rebadged and slightly value-added Tru64-hosted VxWorks instead (with almost nothing in common between VxWorks and VAXELN). Initially it wasn't even called VxWorks (the Ultrix-hosted version was called DECelx). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:33:00 -0400 From: "Brian" Subject: Re: Status of DECUS Canada ? Message-ID: Try www.encompasscanada.com Brian "JF Mezei" wrote in message news:48ebe202$0$12411$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com... > Does anyone have any information on the status of the user group > formerly known as Decus Canada ? > > I have not received anything from them in quite some time. Does anyone > have AnneM's new email address since she moved back to Toronto ? > > I heard that the USA group formerly known as DECUS USA seems to have > been folded into the main Interex group and gotten yet another new name. > Has the same happened in Canada and the new group simply doesn't care > about its Decus constituency ? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 19:49:16 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: strange disk states Message-ID: I'll post another message about the ultimate cause of the problem. Right now, I'm wondering how one member of DSA510: can be a copy target and the other member in the "merging" status. Shouldn't either no or both members be in the "merging" status? Or will first a copy happen then a merge? (I'll have to wait about 10 hours to find out. We plan to move next spring; maybe that will be a chance for me to get some faster hardware.) The disk appears to work fine from all nodes. GLADIA is an ALPHA; DANEEL and ELIJAH are VAXes. DANEEL has been acting strange lately, but this time ELIJAH was too. I tried a shutdown on ELIJAH, which hung. Couldn't get a prompt on the DANEEL console, so did a reset, as on ELIJAH. Both hung. Only after a power cycle did they come back up. I didn't reboot GLADIA. The strange status of DSA510: is the same on all nodes. Now, a few minutes later, $22$DKA500: is showing 1% copied. The only difference is that $22$DKA400: is in MntVerifyTimeout only on DANEEL; a MOUNT fixed that. Otherwise all the disks look as expected. Device Device Error Volume Free Trans Mnt Name Status Count Label Blocks Count Cnt $22$DKA200: (DANEEL) ShadowCopying 0 (copy trgt DSA520: 0% copied) $22$DKA300: (DANEEL) ShadowMergeMbr 0 (merging DSA122: 66% merged) $22$DKA400: (DANEEL) MntVerifyTimeout 0 OVMSDOC071 61179 1 3 wrtlck $22$DKA500: (DANEEL) ShadowCopying 0 (copy trgt DSA510: 0% copied) $22$DKA700: (DANEEL) ShadowMergeMbr 0 (merging DSA122: 66% merged) $33$DKA200: (GLADIA) Online 0 $33$DKA300: (GLADIA) ShadowSetMember 36 (member of DSA520:) $33$DKA400: (GLADIA) Online wrtlck 0 $33$DKB100: (GLADIA) ShadowMergeMbr 0 (merging DSA133: 90% merged) $33$DKB600: (GLADIA) ShadowMergeMbr 0 (merging DSA133: 90% merged) $44$DKA100: (ELIJAH) ShadowMergeMbr 0 (merging DSA144: 76% merged) $44$DKA200: (ELIJAH) Mounted 0 SCRATCH_4 168837 2 3 $44$DKA300: (ELIJAH) Mounted 0 DATA 1907185 1 3 $44$DKA400: (ELIJAH) ShadowMergeMbr 0 (merging DSA510: 0% merged) $44$DKA600: (ELIJAH) ShadowMergeMbr 0 (merging DSA144: 76% merged) $131$DKA300: (NADILA) HostUnavailable 0 $131$DKA500: (NADILA) HostUnavailable 0 For completeness: Device Device Error Volume Free Trans Mnt Name Status Count Label Blocks Count Cnt DSA122: Mounted 0 OVMSVAXSYS_2 2139480 347 3 DSA133: Mounted 0 ALPHASYS_3 1934613 1 3 DSA144: Mounted 0 OVMSVAXSYS_4 2060704 1 3 DSA510: Mounted 0 USER 5533721 219 3 DSA520: Mounted 0 SOFT 514653 9 3 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:22:33 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: strange disk states Message-ID: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: >I'll post another message about the ultimate cause of the problem. >Right now, I'm wondering how one member of DSA510: can be a copy target >and the other member in the "merging" status. Shouldn't either no or >both members be in the "merging" status? That state wasn't possible back when I was messing with shadowing. You needed 2 or more full members to be in a merge state. It may be that they've updated shadowing in such a way that a copy target can be a source if reading from below the copy fence, otherwise no. If that is the case, the normal need for a merge would apply, and I don't know how they'd handle that. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:31:51 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: strange disk states Message-ID: In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de says... > I'll post another message about the ultimate cause of the problem. > Right now, I'm wondering how one member of DSA510: can be a copy target > and the other member in the "merging" status. Shouldn't either no or > both members be in the "merging" status? Or will first a copy happen > then a merge? (I'll have to wait about 10 hours to find out. We plan > to move next spring; maybe that will be a chance for me to get some > faster hardware.) > > The disk appears to work fine from all nodes. > > GLADIA is an ALPHA; DANEEL and ELIJAH are VAXes. DANEEL has been acting > strange lately, but this time ELIJAH was too. I tried a shutdown on > ELIJAH, which hung. Couldn't get a prompt on the DANEEL console, so did > a reset, as on ELIJAH. Both hung. Only after a power cycle did they > come back up. I didn't reboot GLADIA. > > The strange status of DSA510: is the same on all nodes. Now, a few > minutes later, $22$DKA500: is showing 1% copied. The only difference is > that $22$DKA400: is in MntVerifyTimeout only on DANEEL; a MOUNT fixed > that. Otherwise all the disks look as expected. > > Device Device Error Volume Free Trans Mnt > Name Status Count Label Blocks Count Cnt > $22$DKA200: (DANEEL) ShadowCopying 0 (copy trgt DSA520: 0% copied) > $22$DKA300: (DANEEL) ShadowMergeMbr 0 (merging DSA122: 66% merged) > $22$DKA400: (DANEEL) MntVerifyTimeout 0 OVMSDOC071 61179 1 3 > wrtlck > $22$DKA500: (DANEEL) ShadowCopying 0 (copy trgt DSA510: 0% copied) > $22$DKA700: (DANEEL) ShadowMergeMbr 0 (merging DSA122: 66% merged) > $33$DKA200: (GLADIA) Online 0 > $33$DKA300: (GLADIA) ShadowSetMember 36 (member of DSA520:) > $33$DKA400: (GLADIA) Online wrtlck 0 > $33$DKB100: (GLADIA) ShadowMergeMbr 0 (merging DSA133: 90% merged) > $33$DKB600: (GLADIA) ShadowMergeMbr 0 (merging DSA133: 90% merged) > $44$DKA100: (ELIJAH) ShadowMergeMbr 0 (merging DSA144: 76% merged) > $44$DKA200: (ELIJAH) Mounted 0 SCRATCH_4 168837 2 3 > $44$DKA300: (ELIJAH) Mounted 0 DATA 1907185 1 3 > $44$DKA400: (ELIJAH) ShadowMergeMbr 0 (merging DSA510: 0% merged) > $44$DKA600: (ELIJAH) ShadowMergeMbr 0 (merging DSA144: 76% merged) > $131$DKA300: (NADILA) HostUnavailable 0 > $131$DKA500: (NADILA) HostUnavailable 0 > > For completeness: > > Device Device Error Volume Free Trans Mnt > Name Status Count Label Blocks Count Cnt > DSA122: Mounted 0 OVMSVAXSYS_2 2139480 347 3 > DSA133: Mounted 0 ALPHASYS_3 1934613 1 3 > DSA144: Mounted 0 OVMSVAXSYS_4 2060704 1 3 > DSA510: Mounted 0 USER 5533721 219 3 > DSA520: Mounted 0 SOFT 514653 9 3 > > Looks pretty strange. (If you did a "show device" for a single shadow set (e.g. $ show device dsa510:, or a single member disk (e.g. $ show device $44$DKA400:), it would list the shadow set (DSA) disk followed by all the members, which would be a little easier to read. I missread the status of DSA510: at first due to the info being scattered all over the place.) Anyway, I expect if a two member shadowset were being merged and you added a third member, you would see the first two *both* in merge state, with the 3rd member as a copy target, but that's *not* what you see. You see a 2-member set with one as merging, and the 2nd as a copy target... Was there originally a third member (maybe on NADILA?) that was originally in merge state, but got dismounted before the merge completed? I think in this case, it show change the remaining member to "member" status, and the copy should proceed from it, so the status would resemble DSA520:, but maybe there's a bug if a copy is in progress at the same time as the merge, and you drop one of the "merging" disks, it doesn't change the status of the other one. P.S. I know who R. Daneel Steele is, and Gladia and Elijah, but who is Nadila? (It's been a while since I read any old Asimov.) -- John ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 22:23:44 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: strange disk states Message-ID: In article , moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes: > >I'll post another message about the ultimate cause of the problem. > >Right now, I'm wondering how one member of DSA510: can be a copy target > >and the other member in the "merging" status. Shouldn't either no or > >both members be in the "merging" status? > > That state wasn't possible back when I was messing with shadowing. You > needed 2 or more full members to be in a merge state. It may be that > they've updated shadowing in such a way that a copy target can be a source > if reading from below the copy fence, otherwise no. If that is the case, > the normal need for a merge would apply, and I don't know how they'd > handle that. The shadow set in question has each member attached directly to (only) a VAX running 7.3 (VAXstation 4000/90 and VAX 4000/100A). (The ALPHA is running 7.3-2.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 22:30:30 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: strange disk states Message-ID: In article , John Santos writes: > Looks pretty strange. > > (If you did a "show device" for a single shadow set (e.g. $ show device > dsa510:, or a single member disk (e.g. $ show device $44$DKA400:), it > would list the shadow set (DSA) disk followed by all the members, which > would be a little easier to read. I missread the status of DSA510: at > first due to the info being scattered all over the place.) SHOW DEVICE DSA510: reports the same: one member in state copying (34% now) and one in state merging (0% merged). > Anyway, I expect if a two member shadowset were being merged and you > added a third member, you would see the first two *both* in merge > state, with the 3rd member as a copy target, but that's *not* what > you see. Right---all my shadow sets have just two members. > You see a 2-member set with one as merging, and the 2nd as a copy > target... Was there originally a third member (maybe on NADILA?) No. NADILA mounts the shadow set when booted (it's a satellite and my most powerful system---ALPHAserver 1200---but to keep power costs down I boot it only when needed (using when running CSWB)). I've never even experimented with a three-member shadow set. In any case, all was OK AFTER the last shutdown of Nadila; when the problem occurred, NADILA was not in the cluster and hasn't been booted since then. > that was originally in merge state, but got dismounted before the > merge completed? I think in this case, it show change the remaining > member to "member" status, and the copy should proceed from it, so > the status would resemble DSA520:, but maybe there's a bug if a > copy is in progress at the same time as the merge, and you drop > one of the "merging" disks, it doesn't change the status of the > other one. Maybe. > P.S. I know who R. Daneel Steele That's R. Daneel Olivaw (in THE CAVES OF STEEL, among other books) > is, and Gladia and Elijah, but > who is Nadila? (It's been a while since I read any old Asimov.) A minor character, IIRC from THE NAKED SUN. When I set up my cluster, I made a list of 6-character names in Asimov's works. There are quite a few. Many are minor characters, but Palver and Mallow are relatively major. I think the mode of the distribution is actually at 6 characters. Also, ALPHAs get female characters and VAXes get male ones. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 23:10:00 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: strange disk states Message-ID: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: >In article , moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com >(Michael Moroney) writes: >> That state wasn't possible back when I was messing with shadowing. You >> needed 2 or more full members to be in a merge state. It may be that >> they've updated shadowing in such a way that a copy target can be a source >> if reading from below the copy fence, otherwise no. If that is the case, >> the normal need for a merge would apply, and I don't know how they'd >> handle that. >The shadow set in question has each member attached directly to (only) a >VAX running 7.3 (VAXstation 4000/90 and VAX 4000/100A). (The ALPHA is >running 7.3-2.) I missed that. That's old enough that I know it shouldn't do that. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.558 ************************