INFO-VAX Mon, 21 Jul 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 405 Contents: Re: "Network tape drive" for VMS Re: "Network tape drive" for VMS Re: Any known BASIC/SMG issues on Itanium? RE: Curious problem with a dynamic rights identifier Re: F$CVTIME inconsistency after all those years Re: F$CVTIME inconsistency after all those years Re: F$CVTIME inconsistency after all those years Re: Non-CDE DECwindows on Itanium? OT: Valley Boy (the Education of Tom Perkins) Re: OT: Valley Boy (the Education of Tom Perkins) PDF docs Re: PDF docs Re: PDF docs Re: PDF docs Re: PDF docs Re: PDF docs VAX w/zero votes and no QuorumDisk access? Re: VAX w/zero votes and no QuorumDisk access? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 08:47:38 +0100 From: baldrick Subject: Re: "Network tape drive" for VMS Message-ID: johnwallace4@gmail.com wrote: > On Jul 18, 12:01 am, Mark McIntyre ... > "Lights out computing" [1] isn't a phrase you hear much these days, > but once upon a time, there was a widespread goal of keeping people > OUT of the computer room as much as was possible, because a routinely ... > > [1] http://www.it-analysis.com/technology/infrastructure/content.php?cid=8169 Ah yes I remember that. I pioneered some of that using VMS and Robomon as was (from CIS, Heroix now Itheon) and doing dial out to pagers, using high capacity tape drives (not natively available from Digital at the time) (circa 1991) and look what happened? Yep, VMS was run out of the data centre, to be replaced with those boxes that when remote desktop fails, some one has to go in and power cycle the damn thing, usually by pulling *all* the redundant power leads. -- nclews at csc dot com aka Mr. CP Charges "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second-rate technology, led them into it in the first place."- DNA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:18:11 -0700 (PDT) From: johnwallace4@gmail.com Subject: Re: "Network tape drive" for VMS Message-ID: <61b74302-e98f-491b-a98f-899ba6ec4f91@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Jul 21, 8:47 am, baldrick wrote: > johnwalla...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Jul 18, 12:01 am, Mark McIntyre > ... > > "Lights out computing" [1] isn't a phrase you hear much these days, > > but once upon a time, there was a widespread goal of keeping people > > OUT of the computer room as much as was possible, because a routinely > ... > > > [1]http://www.it-analysis.com/technology/infrastructure/content.php?cid=... > > Ah yes I remember that. I pioneered some of that using VMS and Robomon > as was (from CIS, Heroix now Itheon) and doing dial out to pagers, using > high capacity tape drives (not natively available from Digital at the > time) (circa 1991) and look what happened? > > Yep, VMS was run out of the data centre, to be replaced with those boxes > that when remote desktop fails, some one has to go in and power cycle > the damn thing, usually by pulling *all* the redundant power leads. > > -- > nclews at csc dot com aka Mr. CP Charges > "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour > to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly > ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second-rate technology, > led them into it in the first place."- DNA Welcome back indeed. As Kerry said, everything old is new, and vice versa. Your quote from Douglas Adams is just as current in the Vista era as it was in the Win95 era when he said it. Then and now, it could have benefited a little from a few extra words: "peddling second-rate technology >>borrowed from other people<<"... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 08:21:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: Any known BASIC/SMG issues on Itanium? Message-ID: <25a54ceb-486b-4171-9132-4d8a8883831a@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com> On Jul 18, 9:20=A0pm, John Santos wrote: > John Sauter wrote: > > Rich Jordan wrote: > > >> BASIC V1.7 worked, after we recompiled the library modules as well as > >> the program source. =A0I'm getting an informational link message now > > >> %ILINK-I-DIFTYPE, symbol VT.PRINT_SCREEN_PRT of type FUNC cannot be > >> referenced as type OBJECT > >> =A0 =A0 =A0module VT.PRINT_SCREEN > >> =A0 =A0 =A0file: DKA0:[TEST]VT.PRINT_SCREEN.OBJ;3 > > >> VT.PRINT_SCREEN_PRT is the user action subroutine passed to SMG > >> $PUT_PASTEBOARD, and VT.PRINT_SCREEN is the actual subroutine called > >> by the test program. > > >> I'm sure its something simple, but obviously the itanium is being more > >> picky about it than the VAX or Alpha were (though I haven't installed > >> V1.7 on the test VMS 8.3 Alpha yet so we'll see). > > >> Thanks for the suggestions. > > >> Rich > > > I find this error message both astonishing and pleasing. =A0As a softwa= re > > research project I proposed that the compilers be augmented to describe > > how entry points expected to be called. =A0The linker would take this > > information from all the callers and from the subroutine definition, an= d > > output a warning message if there was a mismatch. =A0I called it link-t= ime > > argument checking. > > > My proposal was rejected by the VMS group, using language similar to > > "over my dead body". =A0The messages you are seeing tells me that wiser > > heads eventually prevailed, at least in a limited case, and part of > > what I proposed was implemented. > > > I did a google search for diftype vms, and found this: > > > > > > Here is an excerpt: > > > On OpenVMS I64 systems, if a module defines a variable as data (OBJECT)= , > > it must be referenced as data by all other modules. If a module defines > > a variable as a procedure (FUNC), it must be referenced as a procedure > > by all other modules. > > > When a procedure is referenced as data, the following informational > > message is displayed: > > > %ILINK-I-DIFTYPE, symbol symbol-name of type FUNC cannot be > > referenced as type OBJECT > > > Type checking is performed by the linker on OpenVMS I64 because the > > linker must create function descriptors. The equivalent procedure > > descriptor was created by the compiler on OpenVMS Alpha, so this > > informational message is new for the linker on OpenVMS I64. > > =A0 =A0 John Sauter (John_Sau...@systemeyescomputerstore.com) > > We got a zillion of these messages as well. =A0The correct thing to do > seems to be to ignore them (after checking to make sure the complaint > is in fact about passing a function as data in a context where that is > really what you intend to do...) =A0The resulting programs always seem to > work okay :-) > > The real cure would be for BASIC to implement a FUNC datatype and to > change SDL to generate function prototypes using it when appropriate > when creating BASIC$STARLET.TLB and friends (and for customers to > do the same when writing their own code.) > > -- > John Santos > Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. > 781-861-0670 ext 539 Seems to be the case. When we have the user action routine defined as EXTERNAL LONG VT.PRINT_SCREEN_PRT in our calling program, we get the linker informational but the program works. Attempting to declare it as an EXTERNAL LONG FUNCTION ... with the user action routine defined as FUNCTION LONG we get a clean link, but the program fails with the 'BAS_F_TOOFEWARG' error that we saw prior to the BASIC upgrade. Using EXTERNAL SUB VT.PRINT_SCREEN_PRT with both basic and fully qualified argument 'prototypes' and the user action routine set up as a subroutine gives us a clean link but the program dies with a memory management violation that looks like a typical uninitialized pointer (address 0x0). So I don't see any way to eliminate the link message at this time. BUt the program works as long as the user action routine is a SUBroutine, and declared as an EXTERNAL LONG in the calling program; John's experience of success with apparently similar issues is promising. Thanks for the help and feedback. Rich ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:47:44 -0400 From: "Peter Weaver" Subject: RE: Curious problem with a dynamic rights identifier Message-ID: <026701c8eb40$bccfd2f0$2802a8c0@CHARONLAP> >... > $ SET RIGHTS/DISABLE IP_ALLOW > $ > > (No error message, so I assume everything went fine) > > $ SHOW PROC/RIGHTS > (...) > Process rights: > SYSTEM resource > INTERACTIVE > REMOTE > IP_ALLOW dynamic > > (But the identifier is STILL THERE!) >... I can't help you other than saying that I tried the same commands on my AXP 8.3 system and it worked fine. I recall using the SET RIGHT/DISABLE command in a project 5 or 6 years ago (pre V8.3 but I do not remember the version) and I know that it worked then so my guess is that this is something unique to your system. Is it possible that you have a logical named IP_ALLOW? Peter Weaver www.weaverconsulting.ca www.openvmsvirtualization.com www.vaxvirtualization.com www.alphavirtualization.com Winner of the 2007 OpenVMS.org Readers' Choice Award for System Management/Performance ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 11:23:08 +0200 From: "Martin Vorlaender" Subject: Re: F$CVTIME inconsistency after all those years Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > Martin Vorlaender wrote: >> JF Mezei wrote: >> >> Correct. That's why they added F$DELTA_TIME. > > Thanks, but even there, there is a bit of an inconsistency... > > $ curtime = f$time() > > $ delta = f$delta_time(curtime, f$time()) > $ show symbol delta > DELTA = " 0 00:00:15.30" > $ wait &delta > %DCL-W-IVDTIME, invalid delta time - use DDDD-HH:MM:SS.CC format > \0 &DELTA\ > $ wait 'delta' > > I figured that the & would have been safer since it would tranfer the > actual value to the function instead of putting the value on the command > line which would have given it 2 DCL arguments. The reason here is much simpler: the WAIT command doesn't take a full-blown delta time as a parameter, but rather a short one that's missing the 'days' field - see $HELP WAIT Parameter. But this help entry then goes on to refer to delta time in the DCL_Tips Date_Time online help entry. And "$ WAIT 0 00:05" doesn't throw an error (like %DCL-W-MAXPARAM, too many parameters), but waits for 5 seconds... I agree that this whole thing is a minefield. cu, Martin -- One OS to rule them all | Martin Vorlaender | OpenVMS rules! One OS to find them | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de One OS to bring them all | http://vms.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin.vorlaender@t-online.de ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 06:02:50 -0700 (PDT) From: "David P. Murphy" Subject: Re: F$CVTIME inconsistency after all those years Message-ID: on VAX/VMS V6.2 (the only version I have access to) from $ HELP WAIT PARAM "The colons (:) and period (.) are required delimiters; also, the delta time must begin with the number of hours and not a colon. Note that the days field, usually included in the delta time format, must be omitted here." Yet . . . $ show time 21-JUL-2008 12:54:49 $ wait 00:00:03 $ show time 21-JUL-2008 12:54:52 $ wait 0 00:00:03 $ show time 21-JUL-2008 12:54:55 $ And the commands $ wait 0-00:00:03 $ wait "00:00:03" $ wait "0 00:00:03" all fail with %DCL-W-IVDTIME, invalid delta time. ok dpm ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jul 2008 13:51:00 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: F$CVTIME inconsistency after all those years Message-ID: <48849444$0$5021$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article , "David P. Murphy" writes: >on VAX/VMS V6.2 (the only version I have access to) > > >from $ HELP WAIT PARAM > >"The colons (:) and period (.) are required delimiters; >also, the delta time must begin with the number of hours ----------------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >and not a colon. Note that the days field, usually -^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >included in the delta time format, must be omitted here." $ WAIT ::2 -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:38:41 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: Non-CDE DECwindows on Itanium? Message-ID: zembla7 writes: >Michael Moroney wrote: >> Can you use the old style (like what's still used on a VAX) DECwindows >> environment on an Itanic running VMS V8.3? >Edit sys$manager:DECW$PRIVATE_APPS_SETUP.COM >$ ! DCL global symbols: >$ ! >$ ! - The desktop to start (New Desktop or DECwindows Desktop) >(Alpha or IA64) >$ ! SYMBOL = DECW$START_NEW_DESKTOP >$ ! VALUES = True or False >$ ! DEFAULT = True (can be changed in the installation >procedure) >and add the line >$ decw$start_new_desktop == "false" Thank you. That's just what I was looking for. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 03:40:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Neil Rieck Subject: OT: Valley Boy (the Education of Tom Perkins) Message-ID: I just started reading the autobiography of Tom Perkins titled "Valley Boy". In case anyone else is interested, the first twenty pages discuss in detail what really happened between the HP board and Carly Fiorina, Pattie Dunn, Jay Keyworth. p.s. I got the impression that Carly didn't think the board of directors could tell her what to do. It sounds to me that HP could have ended up being another company with a megalomaniacal CEO and an impotent board (Enron? Hollinger International? Nortel?). HP really dodged a bullet by bringing in Mark Hurd. Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jul 2008 07:35:57 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: OT: Valley Boy (the Education of Tom Perkins) Message-ID: In article , Neil Rieck writes: > > p.s. I got the impression that Carly didn't think the board of > directors could tell her what to do. In that case, she'd probably fit in better with the current administration than either that may replace it. But certainly better with Republicans than Democrats in any case. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 11:53:56 -0400 From: Jack Patteeuw Subject: PDF docs Message-ID: Maybe these exist, maybe they don't. My Googling talents could not find them. I'm looking for PDFs of (VAX) OpenVMS Calling Standard and OpenVMS Programming Concepts (volumes 1 and 2). ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jul 2008 16:04:20 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: PDF docs Message-ID: <4884b384$0$5016$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article , Jack Patteeuw writes: >Maybe these exist, maybe they don't. My Googling talents could not find >them. > >I'm looking for PDFs of (VAX) OpenVMS Calling Standard and OpenVMS >Programming Concepts (volumes 1 and 2). http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/archived.html -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jul 2008 16:08:18 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: PDF docs Message-ID: <4884b472$0$5016$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article , Jack Patteeuw writes: >Maybe these exist, maybe they don't. My Googling talents could not find >them. > >I'm looking for PDFs of (VAX) OpenVMS Calling Standard and OpenVMS >Programming Concepts (volumes 1 and 2). Oops... didn't finish... http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/documentation/pdf/ovms_73_call_stand.pdf http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/documentation/pdf/OVMS_73_PROG_CON1.PDF http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/documentation/pdf/OVMS_73_PROG_CON2.PDF -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 09:12:37 -0700 (PDT) From: IanMiller Subject: Re: PDF docs Message-ID: On Jul 21, 4:53=A0pm, Jack Patteeuw wrote: > Maybe these exist, maybe they don't. =A0My Googling talents could not fin= d > them. > > I'm looking for PDFs of (VAX) OpenVMS Calling Standard and OpenVMS > Programming Concepts (volumes 1 and 2). Calling standard (current) http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82final/5973/aa-qsbbe-te.pdf Concepts http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82FINAL/5841/aa-rnshd-te.PDF http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82final/5841/aa-pv67h-tk.PDF ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jul 2008 17:08:37 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: PDF docs Message-ID: <4884c295$0$20907$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article , IanMiller writes: >On Jul 21, 4:53=A0pm, Jack Patteeuw wrote: >> Maybe these exist, maybe they don't. =A0My Googling talents could not fin= >d >> them. >> >> I'm looking for PDFs of (VAX) OpenVMS Calling Standard and OpenVMS >> Programming Concepts (volumes 1 and 2). > > >Calling standard (current) >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82final/5973/aa-qsbbe-te.pdf > >Concepts >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82FINAL/5841/aa-rnshd-te.PDF >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82final/5841/aa-pv67h-tk.PDF Save that Jack asked for *VAX* calling standard. The VAX calling standard has been elided from the V8 docs. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:07:24 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: PDF docs Message-ID: Jack Patteeuw wrote: > Maybe these exist, maybe they don't. My Googling talents could not find > them. > > I'm looking for PDFs of (VAX) OpenVMS Calling Standard and OpenVMS > Programming Concepts (volumes 1 and 2). Hi Jack, Long time no see, no talk!! (DECUS 1995 in Washington DC?) You will find a document on the OpenVMS Calling Standard at: http://whitepapers.zdnet.co.uk/0,1000000651,260087026p,00.htm Hope it's what you are looking for or a reasonable facsimile! See: http://www.itec.suny.edu/scsys/vms/vmsdoc/72final/5841/5841pro.html for "Programming Concepts". I have copies of both but you'd have to wrench them from my cold, dead, hands! Or offer me enough money to retire on. ;-) They are old, ca. VMS V6.2 If you see/talk to Stu Fuller, please tell him that I said "Hi"! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 09:05:32 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: VAX w/zero votes and no QuorumDisk access? Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0047EA978525748D_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" If I have a cluster w/2 AS systems and a quorum disk (each with one vote, quorum=2), Can I boot a vax into this cluster (with zero votes) if it has no direct access to the quorum disk? If yes, would it need the quorum disk sysgen parameters set and that disk mspc-served from one or both of the AS systems? --=_alternative 0047EA978525748D_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
If I have a cluster w/2 AS systems and a quorum disk (each with one vote, quorum=2),
Can I boot a vax into this cluster (with zero votes) if it has no direct access to the quorum disk?
If yes, would it need the quorum disk sysgen parameters set and that disk mspc-served from
one or both of the AS systems?
--=_alternative 0047EA978525748D_=-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:18:12 -0400 From: "Jilly" Subject: Re: VAX w/zero votes and no QuorumDisk access? Message-ID: <48849a37$0$2866$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com> wrote in message news:OF414C4FC1.40115A4A-ON8525748D.0047A3C2-8525748D.0047EA99@metso.com... > If I have a cluster w/2 AS systems and a quorum disk (each with one vote, > quorum=2), > Can I boot a vax into this cluster (with zero votes) if it has no direct > access to the quorum disk? Yes > If yes, would it need the quorum disk sysgen parameters set and that disk > mspc-served from > one or both of the AS systems? > No, leave DISK_QUORUM blank on this node. The other 2 nodes will server as quorum disk watches and provide it's vote to the cluster. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.405 ************************