INFO-VAX Thu, 26 Jun 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 355 Contents: Display problem Re: Display problem Re: How to transfer complete disk images without using tape Looking for Broadcom Fimrware 2.33 Re: Network gear pricing Subroutine(s) at end re-execute(s) if EXIT statement missing Re: Support for PL/I applications on OpenVMS Itanium Re: Support for PL/I applications on OpenVMS Itanium Re: Support for PL/I applications on OpenVMS Itanium Symbol Substitution Mystery Re: Symbol Substitution Mystery Re: Symbol Substitution Mystery Re: Symbol Substitution Mystery Re: Symbol Substitution Mystery Re: Symbol Substitution Mystery Re: Symbol Substitution Mystery TTA0 port Re: TTA0 port Re: TTA0 port Re: TTA0 port Re: TTA0 port Re: TTA0 port Re: TTA0 port Re: TTA0 port Re: TTA0 port Re: TTA0 port ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:50:31 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Display problem Message-ID: I run eXcursion on my XP laptop and am able to run emacs through an ssh tunnel on all but one node, which complains as follows NORNS> emacs [Spawning a new Kept EMACS] emacs: Terminal type vt102-80 is not defined. If that is not the actual type of terminal you have, use the Bourne shell command `TERM=3D... export TERM' (C-shell: `setenv TERM ...') to specify the correct type. It may be necessary to do `unset TERMCAP' (C-shell: `unsetenv TERMCAP') as well. I tried set term/perm/dev=3Dvt102 but no change. Any ideas on what to persue? this is on 7.3-1 and emacs uses the multinet socket library. -- = PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:54:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: Display problem Message-ID: <7fa2ea2a-3faf-4dd9-8d45-d9647c6de332@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com> On Jun 26, 9:50=A0am, "Tom Linden" wrote: > I run eXcursion on my XP laptop and am able to run emacs through an > ssh tunnel on all but one node, which complains as follows > > NORNS> emacs > [Spawning a new Kept EMACS] > emacs: Terminal type vt102-80 is not defined. > If that is not the actual type of terminal you have, > use the Bourne shell command `TERM=3D... export TERM' (C-shell: > `setenv TERM ...') to specify the correct type. =A0It may be necessary > to do `unset TERMCAP' (C-shell: `unsetenv TERMCAP') as well. > > I tried > > set term/perm/dev=3Dvt102 > > but no change. =A0Any ideas on what to persue? > this is on 7.3-1 and emacs uses the multinet socket library. > > -- > PL/I for OpenVMSwww.kednos.com I wonder if it expects either a symbol or a logical be set to the terminal type. I haven't used Emacs in many years; I don't remember. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:48:38 +0100 From: baldrick Subject: Re: How to transfer complete disk images without using tape Message-ID: Bob Gezelter wrote: > On Jun 25, 4:07 pm, s...@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda) wrote: >> From: Bob Gezelter >> >>> BACKUP/IMAGE/IGNORE=NOBACKUP/VERIFY olddisk ES45"user >>> password"::tempdisk:olddisk.BCK/SAVE_SET >> /IGNORE=NOBACKUP because it's so important to preserve the contents >> of the page and swap files? Might make more sense to search for the >> files which are marked NOBACKUP, and see if the data in them have any >> Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-info > Several years ago, I encountered a site where people had implemented > their own backup regimes for a variety of reasons, some valid (e.g., > confidentiality requirements) and some less valid. Unfortunately, they > had not noticed the NOBACKUP bits before migrating disks, and some > important files were lost. Just to echo what Bob's saying, in some cases especially relational databases it often makes a lot of sense to have files set NOBACKUP because the contents are useless, so long as you also have a stable and related copy somewhere, plus relevant logs to apply to bring the database up to the backup point, than wasting tape space and time with useless files can be a really good strategy to employ. Oracle* (not RDB based) have a habit of saying to VMS people do not use /IGNORE=INTERLOCK and this prevents ANY copy of the file being made, which includes my aforementioned security data (!!) so while they are correct in essence that the file contents are useless, the 'shell/container' of the file most definitely is useful. * These are database admins that explain to me why a backup strategy was in place, and while I'm busy reassembling their data, i explain that VMS system admins often have good reason to do what they do which may not reflect data uses. Brings up an interesting topic of "useless backups", and specifically in this case, (for the original poster) why hasn't restoring from the existing backup set been considered (then copy changed data only)? No backups? nic -- nclews at csc dot com aka Mr. CP Charges ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:05:30 -0400 From: "David" Subject: Looking for Broadcom Fimrware 2.33 Message-ID: If anyone has the BIN file I would massively appreciate an email with the 8k file Thanks -- David B Turner ============================================= Island Computers US Corp PO Box 86 Tybee GA 31328 Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332 x201, Mobile x251 Email: dturner@islandco.com International & Local: (001)- 404-806-7749 Fax: 912 786 8505 Web: www.islandco.com ============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:00:05 -0400 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: Network gear pricing Message-ID: <300d8$4863a0e6$4c0aab67$1491@TEKSAVVY.COM> "William Webb" wrote in message news:8660a3a10806252226x79f25e27l5d08b8f14515657@mail.gmail.com... > On 6/25/08, John Smith wrote: >> Thanks David. >> >> >> "David" wrote in message >> news:bjb8k.10111$AJ6.7838@bignews8.bellsouth.net... >>> Ellacoya Product >>> >>> E30-64-ac (A/C Power for 64K with 64K subscriber license subscriber) >>> $61,400 >>> E30-64-dc (DC Power for 64K with 64K Subscriber license Subscriber) >>> $61,300 >>> >>> Availabilty 2 weeks >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> David B Turner >>> >>> ============================================= >>> >>> Island Computers US Corp >>> PO Box 86 >>> Tybee GA 31328 >>> >>> Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332 x201, Mobile x251 >>> Email: dturner@islandco.com >>> International & Local: (001)- 404-806-7749 >>> Fax: 912 786 8505 >>> Web: www.islandco.com >>> >>> ============================================= >>> "John Smith" wrote in message >>> news:df6ce$486132e7$4c0aab67$11203@TEKSAVVY.COM... >>>> >>>> Does anyone here know ballpark pricing for these traffic shaping >>>> devices? >>>> >>>> Arbor Ellacoya e30: >>>> Support up to 64,000 subscribers at 4 Gbps speed. >>>> >>>> Arbor Ellacoya e100: >>>> Support up to 500,000 subscribers at 20 Gbps speed >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>> >>> >> > > John, > > Your new email address cracked me up. > > I know the John Smith at HP of whom you speak, he's a good guy. > > And I think you are, too. > > You've had more better VMS marketing ideas than anyone else I've ever > known. > > Best regards, and I'd like to shake your hand one day. > > WWWebb Thanks William. Maybe I should apply for that VMS marketing job HP posted recently. But I'm certain I want MUCH more autonomy and money than they are willing to offer. Responsibility without authority to act is a losing proposition. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:24:59 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Subroutine(s) at end re-execute(s) if EXIT statement missing Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0054AC9785257474_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I got caught by this after a bad edit. If the EXIT statement before the "subroutine(s)" in the procedure is missing, the procedure will re-execute the subroutine code and not "RETURN" without complaining about a missing execution of a GOSUB statement. The first example is normal. In the second, the EXIT is commented out, and SUB1 re-executes with no message when the naked RETURN is encountered. $ TYPE TESTG.COM;1 $! TESTG.COM $! $SAY="WRITE SYS$OUTPUT" $SAY "START" $ GOSUB SUB1 $SAY "RETURN" $SAY "EXIT" $EXIT $SUB1: $SAY "SUB1" $RETURN $ @ TESTG.COM;1 START SUB1 RETURN EXIT $ TYPE TESTG.COM;2 $! TESTG.COM $! $SAY="WRITE SYS$OUTPUT" $SAY "START" $ GOSUB SUB1 $SAY "RETURN" $SAY "EXIT SKIPPED" $!$ EXIT $SUB1: $SAY "SUB1" $RETURN $ @ TESTG.COM;2 START SUB1 RETURN EXIT SKIPPED SUB1 $ --=_alternative 0054AC9785257474_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
I got caught by this after a bad edit.
If the EXIT statement before the "subroutine(s)"
in the procedure is missing, the procedure will
re-execute the subroutine code and not "RETURN"
without complaining about a missing execution of
a GOSUB statement.
The first example is normal.  In the second, the
EXIT is commented out, and SUB1 re-executes with
no message when the naked RETURN is encountered.

$ TYPE TESTG.COM;1
$!      TESTG.COM
$!
$SAY="WRITE SYS$OUTPUT"
$SAY "START"
$ GOSUB SUB1
$SAY "RETURN"
$SAY "EXIT"
$EXIT
$SUB1:
$SAY "SUB1"
$RETURN
$ @    TESTG.COM;1
START
SUB1
RETURN
EXIT
$ TYPE TESTG.COM;2
$!      TESTG.COM
$!
$SAY="WRITE SYS$OUTPUT"
$SAY "START"
$ GOSUB SUB1
$SAY "RETURN"
$SAY "EXIT SKIPPED"
$!$ EXIT
$SUB1:
$SAY "SUB1"
$RETURN
$ @    TESTG.COM;2
START
SUB1
RETURN
EXIT SKIPPED
SUB1
$ --=_alternative 0054AC9785257474_=-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 03:46:49 -0700 (PDT) From: IanMiller Subject: Re: Support for PL/I applications on OpenVMS Itanium Message-ID: On Jun 26, 3:41=A0am, "Tom Linden" wrote: > We are pleased to announce that we have developed an environment =A0 > facilitating the portation of PL/I applications running on VAX or Alpha t= o =A0 > Itanium. > > Kednos is announcing the field test release of it's PL/I Run-Time Library= =A0 > for Translated Images on OpenVMS I64. This means that PL/I images =A0 > originally compiled and linked under OpenVMS Alpha can now be translated = =A0 > using HP's OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to Integrity Servers =A0 > (OMSAIS) and executed on OpenVMS I64. > > For more information see the Kednos website at: > > =A0 =A0www.kednos.com > > For the announcement: > > =A0 =A0http://www.kednos.com/pli/docs/announcements/pli_rtl_av-20080623.p= df > > The kit may be download from our website and instructions for obtaining a= =A0 > license are included there. > > What is next? =A0Web enablement of existing PL/I aplications, coming soon= . > > Tom Linden > CEO > > -- > PL/I for OpenVMSwww.kednos.com Although this a good short term measure I think providing a native PL/ I compiler would be better. I know there are complications with that. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:05:10 -0400 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: Support for PL/I applications on OpenVMS Itanium Message-ID: "Tom Linden" wrote in message news:op.udb4fzmvhv4qyg@murphus.hsd1.ca.comcast.net... > We are pleased to announce that we have developed an environment > facilitating the portation of PL/I applications running on VAX or Alpha to > Itanium. > > Kednos is announcing the field test release of it's PL/I Run-Time Library > for Translated Images on OpenVMS I64. This means that PL/I images > originally compiled and linked under OpenVMS Alpha can now be translated > using HP's OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to Integrity Servers > (OMSAIS) and executed on OpenVMS I64. > > For more information see the Kednos website at: > > www.kednos.com > > For the announcement: > > http://www.kednos.com/pli/docs/announcements/pli_rtl_av-20080623.pdf > > The kit may be download from our website and instructions for obtaining a > license are included there. > > What is next? Web enablement of existing PL/I aplications, coming soon. > > Tom Linden > CEO Congrats Tom. As Ian said, a native compiler would be ideal but I know it's been a long hard road wth HP to even get this far. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:32:19 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Support for PL/I applications on OpenVMS Itanium Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:05:10 -0700, John Smith wrote: > > "Tom Linden" wrote in message > news:op.udb4fzmvhv4qyg@murphus.hsd1.ca.comcast.net... >> We are pleased to announce that we have developed an environment >> facilitating the portation of PL/I applications running on VAX or Alpha >> to >> Itanium. >> >> Kednos is announcing the field test release of it's PL/I Run-Time >> Library >> for Translated Images on OpenVMS I64. This means that PL/I images >> originally compiled and linked under OpenVMS Alpha can now be translated >> using HP's OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to Integrity Servers >> (OMSAIS) and executed on OpenVMS I64. >> >> For more information see the Kednos website at: >> >> www.kednos.com >> >> For the announcement: >> >> http://www.kednos.com/pli/docs/announcements/pli_rtl_av-20080623.pdf >> >> The kit may be download from our website and instructions for obtaining >> a >> license are included there. >> >> What is next? Web enablement of existing PL/I aplications, coming soon. >> >> Tom Linden >> CEO > > > Congrats Tom. > As Ian said, a native compiler would be ideal but I know it's been a long > hard road wth HP to even get this far. > We should have included performance benchmark data, I will post that later. -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 00:07:13 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Symbol Substitution Mystery Message-ID: <0ed830a1-b236-434f-b868-2d98e09f5ce4@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> $ SHOW SYMBOL ZERO ZERO == "ONE" $ SHOW SYMBOL ONE ONE == "TWO" $ $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$STRING(ZERO) ONE $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$STRING("''ZERO'") ONE $ $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT 'F$STRING(ZERO)' TWO $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT 'F$STRING("''ZERO'")' ONE $ Say what? AEF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:11:20 +0100 From: baldrick Subject: Re: Symbol Substitution Mystery Message-ID: AEF wrote: > $ SHOW SYMBOL ZERO > ZERO == "ONE" > $ SHOW SYMBOL ONE > ONE == "TWO" > $ > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$STRING(ZERO) > ONE > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$STRING("''ZERO'") > ONE > $ > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT 'F$STRING(ZERO)' > TWO > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT 'F$STRING("''ZERO'")' > ONE > $ > > Say what? Welcome to DCL. Why don't you try using the "&" as a symbol substitution character and repeat your "tests"? Self modifying DCL code is a breeze, and while some might argue it doesn't follow typical programming expectations, remember it is interpreted, which makes all the difference because you're changing the order of interpretation, but it also allows for some very imaginative, err, well i hesitate to call it coding, but I think you get the idea. Apart from the DCL dictionary, "Writing Real Programs In DCL (2nd Ed) " by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos and Steve Hoffman" is a must buy, but don't expect it to teach you tricks like that !! Google for "Stupid DCL Tricks" and you'll find quite a few references to Kevin G Barkes' work, among others. In my time I've deliberately used DCL for some tasks simply because I can do things that are a PITA in high level languages (or even lower ones!) nic -- nclews at csc dot com aka Mr. CP Charges ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:25:37 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Symbol Substitution Mystery Message-ID: <48636eaa$0$8462$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> AEF wrote: > Say what? Listen Carefully, I shall say this only once... What? Based on the long diatribe below, my conclusion is that the DCL parser also parses arguments for the lexicals when they are prefixed with a ' and then calls the lexical with a list fo arguments already pre-parsed and pre-expanded. When the lexical executes normally, it is the one that fetches its own arguments and deals with them. Tests follow: (look at bottom for conclusion with the OP's examples) [1] $ a = F$STRING("''SUE'") $ show symbol A A = "" [2] $ A = F$STRING("Hello ''SUE' Skonetski") $ show symbol a A = "Hello Skonetski" [3] $ write sys$output "Hello ''SUE' Skonetski" Hello Skonetski I suspect that DCL's symbol substitution doesn't complain when it is asked to translate a non existant symbol within enclosing double quotes since it still has the rest of the contents in the double quotes to return. ----------------- $ a = "Hello" 'SUE' + "Skonetski" $ show symbol a A = "HelloSkonetski" $ a = "Hello" 'SUE' "Skonetski" %DCL-W-EXPSYN, invalid expression syntax - check operators and operands $ a = "Hello" "Skonetski" %DCL-W-EXPSYN, invalid expression syntax - check operators and operands In the first case, it probably results in "Hello" + "Skonetski". In the second case, it results in "Hello" "Skonetski" which is not valid (same as third case). ---------------------- [3] $ a = 'F$STRING("''SUE'") %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spelling \SUE\ The command line parser here is forced to evaluate the F$STRING so it can place the results in the command line a = What is interesting is that here, it complains about SUE, but in $ a = "Hello" 'SUE' + "Skonetski" It doesn't complain. Perhaps Lexicals are done in such a way to complain when they are called by the command line interpreter portion, and not complain when they are executed as part of the command. [4] $ A = F$STRING('SUE') %DCL-W-ARGREQ, missing argument - supply all required arguments I suspect here that DCL doesn't do the command line parsing because the ' are inside a lexical. F$STRING does its quiet translation when it executes, but then it realises that it doesn't have any arguments and returns that error code. [5] $ A = 'F$STRING('SUE') %DCL-W-EXPSYN, invalid expression syntax - check operators and operands This is interesting. You'd expect either a complaint about SUE not being defined, or F$STRING given 0 arguments. The command parser definitely works differently. ----------------------------- This is where I started to lose it..... $ x = 2 $ write sys$output f$string("x + x") x + x $ write sys$output 'f$string("x + x") 4 In the first care, f$string is given a string argument of "x + x" and just spits it back out as result. In the second case, DCL's parser kicks in and obviously evaluates x + x to a numerical value of 4 and opasses the value of 4 as argument to f%string which would then return the string value. ------------------------------- $ write sys$output f$string("""ONE""") "ONE" $ write sys$output 'f$string("""ONE""") ONE $ write sys$output 'F$STRING("ONE")' TWO In the first case, f$string is given a value of "ONE" (quotes being part of value) and spits it back out. In the second case, the DCL parser probably evaluates """ONE""" first. This would come to "ONE" (including quotes) and DCL might feed F$STRING a pre-parsed string argument which would result in WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "ONE" In the 3rd case, the DCL parser kicks in, evaluates "ONE" to the string value ONE which is fed to F$STRING, F$STRING evaluates it as a symbol and spits out the string "TWO" as output. ----------- [CONCLUSION] ------[ MY THEORY ]---------------------- $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT 'F$STRING(ZERO)' TWO $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT 'F$STRING("''ZERO'")' ONE $ First one is simple. DCL parses the F$STRING and calls F$STRING, giving it one argument identified as a symbol. F$STRING translates it, makes sure it is a string, and spits out ONE as a result. The PARSER then feeds WRITE SYS$OUTPUT ONE to the command interpreter. In the second case, heck, I really don't know. You would think that DCL would pass the string ONE to F$STRING, but it seems to be passing "ONE" as a parsed argument at which point F$STRING spits it back out as the result and it comes out as WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "ONE" Beats me. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 05:02:31 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: Symbol Substitution Mystery Message-ID: On Jun 26, 5:11 am, baldrick wrote: > AEF wrote: > > $ SHOW SYMBOL ZERO > > ZERO == "ONE" > > $ SHOW SYMBOL ONE > > ONE == "TWO" > > $ > > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$STRING(ZERO) > > ONE > > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$STRING("''ZERO'") > > ONE > > $ > > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT 'F$STRING(ZERO)' > > TWO > > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT 'F$STRING("''ZERO'")' > > ONE > > $ > > > Say what? > > Welcome to DCL. Yes, I know. But what's with this particular fun item? > > Why don't you try using the "&" as a symbol substitution character and > repeat your "tests"? Why? You're talking to Mr. Ampersand. I recently posted something like 8 uses for the ampersand. &-) > > Self modifying DCL code is a breeze, and while some might argue it Self modifying code? Say what? What does that have to do with this? > doesn't follow typical programming expectations, remember it is > interpreted, which makes all the difference because you're changing the > order of interpretation, but it also allows for some very imaginative, > err, well i hesitate to call it coding, but I think you get the idea. > > Apart from the DCL dictionary, "Writing Real Programs In DCL (2nd Ed) " > by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos and Steve Hoffman" is a must buy, but don't > expect it to teach you tricks like that !! I have the book. I read the book. > > Google for "Stupid DCL Tricks" and you'll find quite a few references to > Kevin G Barkes' work, among others. Fine, but right now I'm more interested in this particular example. I thought I finally understood apostrophe symbol substitution, but this one threw me. > > In my time I've deliberately used DCL for some tasks simply because I > can do things that are a PITA in high level languages (or even lower ones!) I use it quite a lot. > > nic > > -- > nclews at csc dot com aka Mr. CP Charges AEF ------------------------------ Date: 26 Jun 2008 07:45:27 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Symbol Substitution Mystery Message-ID: In article <0ed830a1-b236-434f-b868-2d98e09f5ce4@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$STRING(ZERO) > ONE > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$STRING("''ZERO'") > ONE > $ > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT 'F$STRING(ZERO)' > TWO > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT 'F$STRING("''ZERO'")' > ONE f$string(), 'f$string(), and 'symbol', have documented behaviour. 'f$string()' and 'symbol don't, and may be tripping you up with the undocumented tendency of DCL to assume close quote when a terminator is seen (in this case RETURN is a terminator). In any case persuing what happens in response to undocunmented "features" is likley to be a waste of time. And subject to change wihtout notice. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:07:42 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: Symbol Substitution Mystery Message-ID: <2b901398-9712-4364-b4eb-7406d1944ebb@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com> On Jun 26, 8:45 am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article <0ed830a1-b236-434f-b868-2d98e09f5...@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > > > > > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$STRING(ZERO) > > ONE > > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$STRING("''ZERO'") > > ONE > > $ > > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT 'F$STRING(ZERO)' > > TWO > > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT 'F$STRING("''ZERO'")' > > ONE > > f$string(), 'f$string(), and 'symbol', have documented behaviour. > 'f$string()' and 'symbol don't, and may be tripping you up with the > undocumented tendency of DCL to assume close quote when a terminator > is seen (in this case RETURN is a terminator). > > In any case persuing what happens in response to undocunmented > "features" is likley to be a waste of time. And subject to change > wihtout notice. OK, I'll accept that this particular case is just screwy. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:34:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: Symbol Substitution Mystery Message-ID: <72a2fcf8-1b75-4973-90f2-630ebcc03f4f@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> On Jun 26, 2:07 am, AEF wrote: > $ SHOW SYMBOL ZERO > ZERO == "ONE" > $ SHOW SYMBOL ONE > ONE == "TWO" > $ > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$STRING(ZERO) > ONE > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$STRING("''ZERO'") > ONE > $ > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT 'F$STRING(ZERO)' > TWO > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT 'F$STRING("''ZERO'")' > ONE > $ > > Say what? > > AEF AEF, Not so much screwy as subtlety different. F$STRING(ZERO) will compute the string value of the value contained in string ZERO. Hence ZERO=="ONE", and the symbol ONE=="TWO". The expression F$STRING("ZERO") yields the string of the string "ZERO" [not the variable named ZERO], substituting that yields "ONE". Admittedly, the syntax can be confusing, but the actual description of F$STRING appears correct (e..g, the paramter is an EXPRESSION, to wit, either a constant or a variable). Admittedly, the example HELP text that I looked at is hardly a model for clarity. In effect, this is an example of what is called an "Indirection error" in a compiled language. - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:30:16 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: TTA0 port Message-ID: I have two identical machines, ES45s one running 8.3 the other 7.3-1. When I connect from 8.3 to the OPA0 port of a third box I can talk to SRM fine but from the other the characters don't and it spits out somewhat random characters. Any idea what to look for? set host/dte tta0 -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:36:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: TTA0 port Message-ID: <2a5a68ab-5566-4543-bf95-90b3998a8e63@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> Tom Linden wrote: > I have two identical machines, ES45s one running 8.3 the other > 7.3-1. When I connect from 8.3 to the OPA0 port of a third box > I can talk to SRM fine but from the other the characters don't > and it spits out somewhat random characters. Any idea what to > look for? > > set host/dte tta0 > > -- > PL/I for OpenVMS > www.kednos.com Tom, Best guess is that the baud rates are set diffferently. At least, that is the most common reason for "garbage" characters that I encounter. - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.colm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:20:34 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: TTA0 port Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:36:03 -0700, Bob Gezelter wrote: > Best guess is that the baud rates are set diffferently. At least, that > is the most common reason for "garbage" characters that I encounter. I agree it looks that way, but how do you show or set the baud rate on this port? -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:28:15 +0200 From: Joseph Huber Subject: Re: TTA0 port Message-ID: Tom Linden wrote: > On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:36:03 -0700, Bob Gezelter > wrote: > >> Best guess is that the baud rates are set diffferently. At least, that >> is the most common reason for "garbage" characters that I encounter. > > I agree it looks that way, but how do you show or set the baud rate on this > port? > SET TERM/SPEED=19200[/PERM] -- Joseph Huber - http://www.huber-joseph.de ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:34:50 +0200 From: Joseph Huber Subject: Re: TTA0 port Message-ID: Tom Linden wrote: > On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:36:03 -0700, Bob Gezelter > wrote: > >> Best guess is that the baud rates are set diffferently. At least, that >> is the most common reason for "garbage" characters that I encounter. > > I agree it looks that way, but how do you show or set the baud rate on this > port? > Sorry, too fast return key hit , Show speed; SHOW TERMINAL TTA0: Set speed: SET TERMINAL TTA0: /SPEED=19200 [/PERM] Eventually needs SET TERMINAL/SET_SPEED before depend. on system mgr setting. -- Joseph Huber - http://www.huber-joseph.de ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:25:48 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: TTA0 port Message-ID: Tom Linden wrote: > I have two identical machines, ES45s one running 8.3 the other > 7.3-1. When I connect from 8.3 to the OPA0 port of a third box > I can talk to SRM fine but from the other the characters don't > and it spits out somewhat random characters. Any idea what to > look for? > > set host/dte tta0 > Different baud rates? Parity? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:34:33 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: TTA0 port Message-ID: <0_-dnbnbA6o0WP7VnZ2dnUVZ_uOdnZ2d@comcast.com> Tom Linden wrote: > On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:36:03 -0700, Bob Gezelter > wrote: > >> Best guess is that the baud rates are set diffferently. At least, that >> is the most common reason for "garbage" characters that I encounter. > > I agree it looks that way, but how do you show or set the baud rate on this > port? > $ SHOW TERMINAL TTA0:P and $ SET TERMINAL /SPEED=(send speed, receive speed) TTA0: ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:36:33 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: TTA0 port Message-ID: <0_-dnbjbA6q9W_7VnZ2dnUVZ_uOdnZ2d@comcast.com> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > Tom Linden wrote: >> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:36:03 -0700, Bob Gezelter >> wrote: >> >>> Best guess is that the baud rates are set diffferently. At least, that >>> is the most common reason for "garbage" characters that I encounter. >> >> I agree it looks that way, but how do you show or set the baud rate on >> this >> port? >> > > $ SHOW TERMINAL TTA0:P Correction: The above should read TTA0: without the "P". ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:39:15 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: TTA0 port Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:25:48 -0700, Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > Tom Linden wrote: >> I have two identical machines, ES45s one running 8.3 the other >> 7.3-1. When I connect from 8.3 to the OPA0 port of a third box >> I can talk to SRM fine but from the other the characters don't >> and it spits out somewhat random characters. Any idea what to >> look for? >> set host/dte tta0 >> > > Different baud rates? Parity? The only difference between the two is, that on the misbehaving one it is set to NO BROADCAST. I suppose there could be something amiss with the port itself, I used the same cable on each. -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: 26 Jun 2008 17:50:35 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: TTA0 port Message-ID: <4863d6eb$0$7331$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article , "Tom Linden" writes: >On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:25:48 -0700, Richard B. Gilbert > wrote: > >> Tom Linden wrote: >>> I have two identical machines, ES45s one running 8.3 the other >>> 7.3-1. When I connect from 8.3 to the OPA0 port of a third box >>> I can talk to SRM fine but from the other the characters don't >>> and it spits out somewhat random characters. Any idea what to >>> look for? >>> set host/dte tta0 >>> >> >> Different baud rates? Parity? > >The only difference between the two is, that on the misbehaving one >it is set to NO BROADCAST. I suppose there could be something amiss >with the port itself, I used the same cable on each. That shouldn't matter. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps there's a hardware failure? The UART may be flakey. Have you tried to initiate communications from the other side to see is you have the same sort of errors occuring? You said you were connecting to OPA0: I believe the default rate for these is 9600. Try $ SET HOST/DTE/SPEED=9600 TTA0: Put a small piece of wire (a paper clip is what I typically use when I'm in a pinch) into pins 2 & 3 of the female connector of the wire you are using to connect the machines. Then use $ SET HOST to see if there is a problem on the sending receiving side of each machine. You should be able to con- nect with SET HOST and then type. What you type should be echoed back to you. Check both sides this way. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.355 ************************