INFO-VAX Mon, 02 Jun 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 306 Contents: Re: Another Flex/VMS example - Browsing the ACCOUNTNG.DAT file RE: Another Flex/VMS example - Browsing the ACCOUNTNG.DAT file Re: Another Flex/VMS example - Browsing the ACCOUNTNG.DAT file Re: Another Flex/VMS example - Browsing the ACCOUNTNG.DAT file Re: Another Flex/VMS example - Browsing the ACCOUNTNG.DAT file RE: China responsible for past major power outages? Where is OpenVMS? Re: Galaxy on ES45 Re: How to read a damaged TK50 tape Re: How to read a damaged TK50 tape Re: How to read a damaged TK50 tape Re: How to read a damaged TK50 tape Re: How to read a damaged TK50 tape Re: LBR function result codes still not available Re: LBR function result codes still not available Re: LBR function result codes still not available Re: OpenVMS and linux, pros and cons Re: OpenVMS and linux, pros and cons Re: Patchlevel upgrade? Re: Patchlevel upgrade? Re: Patchlevel upgrade? Re: Patchlevel upgrade? Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 20:38:23 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Another Flex/VMS example - Browsing the ACCOUNTNG.DAT file Message-ID: <3ND0k.7886$R_4.6580@newsb.telia.net> Peter Weaver wrote: > ... > ... > ..., the .mxml file was compiled into the .swf using the free flex > program loaded on my IA64 system. The IA64 system can compile the > code in about 35 seconds, my Alpha 800 5/500 takes over 3 > minutes to do the same job. Right, so now I have a 80 Meg, close-to-1500-files ZIP file... What the heck am I supposed to do with that one to have it "loaded" onto my VMS system ? I guess that it's some regular set of steps to make a "java install", but I'm more or less completly lost as to what to do next. I do have a running Java environment, and the installed IDE$SERVER (server for the Distibuted Netbeans client) works just fine. But that was an PCSI-kit... Is there any general VMSINSTAL- or PROD INSTALL-like command for Java kits ? Guess not... Another thing... Peter Weavers example to "compile" mxml files, uses the bash command (line wrapped here) : > $ bash -c "java -Xmx384m -Dsun.io.useCanonCaches=false -jar /flex_disk/kits/flex/lib/mxmlc.jar +flexlib=/flex_disk/kits/flex/frameworks ''p1' ''p2' ''p3' ''p4' ''p5' ''p6' ''p7' ''p8'" Is bash needed or can the java command be run directly ? And if I *do* need bash, I guess that it's the GNV kit I should look for, right ? (I could probably also compile the mxml files on some other platform, but I'd realy like a VMS-only environment.) Oh well, someday I'll probably also understand what's so great with this "java thing"... :-) :-) Best Regards, Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 19:32:37 -0400 From: "Peter Weaver" Subject: RE: Another Flex/VMS example - Browsing the ACCOUNTNG.DAT file Message-ID: <012101c8c43f$c758abc0$2802a8c0@CHARONLAP> >... > Right, so now I have a 80 Meg, close-to-1500-files ZIP file... > > What the heck am I supposed to do with that one to have it > "loaded" onto my VMS system ? I guess that it's some regular > set of steps to make a "java install", but I'm more or less > completly lost as to what to do next. Just unzip it to some directory on you system. No installing is needed. In my case I put it in a directory called [KITS.FLEX] then I assigned a logical named FLEX_DISK (in the MXMLC.COM) to point to the disk drive. >... > Peter Weavers example to "compile" mxml files, uses the bash > command (line wrapped here) : > > > $ bash -c "java -Xmx384m -Dsun.io.useCanonCaches=false -jar > /flex_disk/kits/flex/lib/mxmlc.jar > +flexlib=/flex_disk/kits/flex/frameworks ''p1' ''p2' > ''p3' ''p4' ''p5' ''p6' ''p7' ''p8'" > > Is bash needed or can the java command be run directly ? > And if I *do* need bash, I guess that it's the GNV kit I > should look for, right ? I tried many different combinations of bash and java and logicals until I hit a combination that worked. I stopped trying then. But I just tested this without the bash and without the quotes. This worked (along with all the logicals defined in the MXMLC.COM); $ java -Xmx384m -Dsun.io.useCanonCaches=false -jar /flex_disk/kits/flex/lib/mxmlc.jar +flexlib=/flex_disk/kits/flex/frameworks 'p1' 'p2' 'p3' 'p4' 'p5' 'p6' 'p7' 'p8' In my case mxmlc.jar is in flex_disk:[kits.flex.lib] and the framworks.dir is in flex_disk:[kits.flex] so you will need to edit this line. Note that your disk name (and directories) can not contain a dollar sign (which is why I created the flex_disk logical). BTW: If you still want bash then yes, it is in the GNV kit. > > (I could probably also compile the mxml files on some > other platform, but I'd realy like a VMS-only environment.) Me too. > Oh well, someday I'll probably also understand what's so > great with this "java thing"... :-) :-) Me too. Peter Weaver www.weaverconsulting.ca www.openvmsvirtualization.com www.vaxvirtualization.com www.alphavirtualization.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 20:08:40 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Another Flex/VMS example - Browsing the ACCOUNTNG.DAT file Message-ID: <48433a06$0$90275$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > Another thing... > > Peter Weavers example to "compile" mxml files, uses the bash > command (line wrapped here) : > > > $ bash -c "java -Xmx384m -Dsun.io.useCanonCaches=false -jar > /flex_disk/kits/flex/lib/mxmlc.jar > +flexlib=/flex_disk/kits/flex/frameworks ''p1' ''p2' > ''p3' ''p4' ''p5' ''p6' ''p7' ''p8'" > > Is bash needed or can the java command be run directly ? > And if I *do* need bash, I guess that it's the GNV kit I > should look for, right ? > > (I could probably also compile the mxml files on some > other platform, but I'd realy like a VMS-only environment.) The above should run with DCL instead of bash. But an alternative does exist. Flex comes with ant tasks. And if they work on VMS, then that should really be the preferred way of building. > Oh well, someday I'll probably also understand what's so > great with this "java thing"... :-) :-) It is just another language. One great thing is that programs written in Java usually runs out of the box on VMS unlike so many C programs. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 08:25:16 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Another Flex/VMS example - Browsing the ACCOUNTNG.DAT file Message-ID: Hi Peter, Jan-Erik, > Me too. Look, me three but I really think you're doing yourselves a disservice by not at least looking at FlexBuilder. I didn't want it either and only downloaded it 'cos I couldn't see any other way of getting access to Flex Charting. I also didn't use the graphical drag-n-drop GUI editor much and probably really only used 10% of the functionality, but I'm hooked! (But still waiting for a revenue opportunity to justify the price-tag :-) I guess I just don't want to give people another excuse to say "Is that how you and Fred Flintstone do it on VMS?". And I'd also like to point it out as an option for those who don't want the Java/Garbage-Collector bloatware running on their VMS boxes. Cheers Richard Maher PS. The FlexBuilder kit (which includes the Flex 3 SDK) for Windows is also enormous, but if the relative sizes of the Java SDKs is anything to go by, then it must be about a Terrabyte on OS-X :-) "Peter Weaver" wrote in message news:012101c8c43f$c758abc0$2802a8c0@CHARONLAP... > >... > > Right, so now I have a 80 Meg, close-to-1500-files ZIP file... > > > > What the heck am I supposed to do with that one to have it > > "loaded" onto my VMS system ? I guess that it's some regular > > set of steps to make a "java install", but I'm more or less > > completly lost as to what to do next. > > Just unzip it to some directory on you system. No installing is needed. In > my case I put it in a directory called [KITS.FLEX] then I assigned a logical > named FLEX_DISK (in the MXMLC.COM) to point to the disk drive. > > >... > > Peter Weavers example to "compile" mxml files, uses the bash > > command (line wrapped here) : > > > > > $ bash -c "java -Xmx384m -Dsun.io.useCanonCaches=false -jar > > /flex_disk/kits/flex/lib/mxmlc.jar > > +flexlib=/flex_disk/kits/flex/frameworks ''p1' ''p2' > > ''p3' ''p4' ''p5' ''p6' ''p7' ''p8'" > > > > Is bash needed or can the java command be run directly ? > > And if I *do* need bash, I guess that it's the GNV kit I > > should look for, right ? > > I tried many different combinations of bash and java and logicals until I > hit a combination that worked. I stopped trying then. But I just tested this > without the bash and without the quotes. > > This worked (along with all the logicals defined in the MXMLC.COM); > $ java -Xmx384m -Dsun.io.useCanonCaches=false -jar > /flex_disk/kits/flex/lib/mxmlc.jar > +flexlib=/flex_disk/kits/flex/frameworks 'p1' 'p2' > 'p3' 'p4' 'p5' 'p6' 'p7' 'p8' > > In my case mxmlc.jar is in flex_disk:[kits.flex.lib] and the framworks.dir > is in flex_disk:[kits.flex] so you will need to edit this line. Note that > your disk name (and directories) can not contain a dollar sign (which is why > I created the flex_disk logical). > > BTW: If you still want bash then yes, it is in the GNV kit. > > > > > (I could probably also compile the mxml files on some > > other platform, but I'd realy like a VMS-only environment.) > > Me too. > > > Oh well, someday I'll probably also understand what's so > > great with this "java thing"... :-) :-) > > Me too. > > Peter Weaver > www.weaverconsulting.ca www.openvmsvirtualization.com > www.vaxvirtualization.com www.alphavirtualization.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 08:35:30 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Another Flex/VMS example - Browsing the ACCOUNTNG.DAT file Message-ID: Hi Peter, > I did not bother with the Flex Builder since I know there is no way I > can justify the cost of the full Flex Builder. I know what you mean; it certainly ain't cheap! (Except from Arne's Software Shack :-) But to put it into perspective, it's really only about two lunches for the IMM team or about half a plane ticket to fly one of them across the globe on "Mr.Remarkable" class. Anyway, as long as the VMS License-payer is getting bang-for-buck, that's the main thing :-( So, you just received a reader's choice award from the openvms.org readers (well done!) and you've stired up a lot of interest with this, and other posts, and your web-accessible examples look to be helping quite a few in the VMS community. Now let's compare that to the ROI from the money that has been thrown at the designated-hitters in HP/VMS over the last ten years shall we? Food for thought? Cheers Richard Maher "Peter Weaver" wrote in message news:04f801c8be79$9b58afa0$2802a8c0@CHARONLAP... > >... > > Any reference to that "free flex program" ? > > You can get the "Flex 3.0 SDK for all Platforms" from the link at the bottom > of http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=flex3email. The page > also has a link to download Flex Builder (which is what Richard used to get > his pie charts on the example he did) but that download is only good for 60 > days. I did not bother with the Flex Builder since I know there is no way I > can justify the cost of the full Flex Builder. > > Peter Weaver > www.weaverconsulting.ca www.openvmsvirtualization.com > www.vaxvirtualization.com www.alphavirtualization.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 19:34:14 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: China responsible for past major power outages? Where is OpenVMS? Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: ultradwc@gmail.com [mailto:ultradwc@gmail.com] > Sent: May 31, 2008 9:09 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: China responsible for past major power outages? Where is > OpenVMS? > > the power grid used to be controlled by vms, but now that some idiotic > power companies have evidently gone to windoze and linux, that virus > free vms platform that used to exist is now open to chinese > hackers ... > > http://www.nationaljournal.com/njmagazine/cs_20080531_6948.php Not sure what you mean by "used to", but certainly numerous power companies use SCADA on OpenVMS for their power grids. Re: Windows and Linux .. here is good story for you: http://www.vista-control.com/itanium_success.htm "Los Alamos, February 15th. 2007 After implementing mission-critical system= s on Windows-based computers for many years, a customer experienced a virus i= n one of these systems that shut down production for two days while the infected systems were diagnosed, restored and tested. The impact was that plant production was severely impacted at no small cost. Despite internal opposition because of the established standard, Vsystem on HP Itanium serve= rs running OpenVMS was chosen for the next system to be replaced." See rest of article. http://www.availabilitydigest.com/public_articles/0209/qei.pdf "For almost 50 years, QEI of Springfield, New Jersey, (www.qeiinc.com) has been supplying highly available SCADA systems to the electric, transit, gas= , water, and other utilities. A SCADA (Supervisory Control and Data Acquisiti= on) system provides controllers with the facilities" "...The Master Station runs on HP OpenVMS blades or towers. It can be confi= gured as a standalone system or in a dual, triple, or quadruple modular redundanc= y configuration, as described later." End quote. As I have stated here before, at some point, and as shown in first url abov= e, once they look at the big picture, Cust's will need to ask themselves If th= ey can really afford Windows and/or Linux. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-254-8911 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 22:02:15 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Galaxy on ES45 Message-ID: <484354a3$0$90273$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Main, Kerry wrote: > From: Arne Vajhøj [mailto:arne@vajhoej.dk] >> But considering how VMWare sell today, then maybe Galaxy >> could have sold better with the right marketing and > > Well, that might be part of it, but the OpenVMS Cust might simply ask > "why not just run these applications on the same OS instance?" Other OS than VMS. Different VMS versions. They want to be able to reboot on system without effecting the other apps. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 10:55:44 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: How to read a damaged TK50 tape Message-ID: On Jun 1, 1:41 pm, "Robert Jarratt" wrote: > I am attempting to read a tape that may be physically damaged in a few > places. It contains a backup saveset and I get some parity errors when > trying to read it. I would like to recover what I can. What is the best way > to do this with VMS? > > Thanks > > Rob I don't think you can get past the parity errors with normal equipment. I think your only choice is to enlist a data recovery service. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 14:57:44 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: How to read a damaged TK50 tape Message-ID: Robert Jarratt wrote: > I am attempting to read a tape that may be physically damaged in a few > places. It contains a backup saveset and I get some parity errors when > trying to read it. I would like to recover what I can. What is the best way > to do this with VMS? > > Thanks > > Rob > > I'm not sure it's possible!! I've tried a few times and never got the drive to read past the error! It's possible that the drive is bad. Have you tried to read it on another drive? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 12:11:43 -0700 (PDT) From: IanMiller Subject: Re: How to read a damaged TK50 tape Message-ID: <7ce30e3e-41d3-4286-a692-751aa6c32798@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On Jun 1, 6:41 pm, "Robert Jarratt" wrote: > I am attempting to read a tape that may be physically damaged in a few > places. It contains a backup saveset and I get some parity errors when > trying to read it. I would like to recover what I can. What is the best way > to do this with VMS? > > Thanks > > Rob Sometimes the TF (DSSI?) variant will go past problems that the TZ series drives will not. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 15:43:15 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: How to read a damaged TK50 tape Message-ID: <4842fcf2$0$7313$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Robert Jarratt wrote: > I am attempting to read a tape that may be physically damaged in a few > places. There is some old utility around, I think it was called something like VMSTPCE or something like that. I had used it once, but cannot find it anymore. (something about tape copy). It is supposedly better at copying contents of tapes. I know I had it on my system, but can't seem to recall where it was stowed. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 12:58:55 -0700 (PDT) From: FrankS Subject: Re: How to read a damaged TK50 tape Message-ID: On Jun 1, 1:41=A0pm, "Robert Jarratt" wrote: > I am attempting to read a tape that may be physically damaged in a few > places. It contains a backup saveset and I get some parity errors when > trying to read it. I would like to recover what I can. What is the best wa= y > to do this with VMS? Wow, I haven't had to do that in a long time. The best I can recall is that I did a series of consecutive restores from the tape, using the /NOREWIND qualifier. If you don't indicate the specific saveset name then BACKUP will (or at least would, back when) just process the next one that it finds. Eventually the tape will move past the bad spots and BACKUP actually finds real data. Again, though, that was a generation ago. I don't profess to have done this recently, so maybe BACKUP will behave differently. You could also play with the $SET MAGTAPE command and see if it allows you to move past the damaged area of the tape. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 15:35:16 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: LBR function result codes still not available Message-ID: <4842fb14$0$7313$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Tom Linden wrote: > And they should ALWAYS be expressed in SDL and made available through > starlet. I would suspect that resources have been limited ever since the Palmer days and they never saw any priority to finish the original work of building the SDL stuff for the library routines which they probably thought nobody used. Note that the routines to get the information about a library (forget the name) is ill defined and documentation lacks a LOT of the information necessary to produce the equivalent of LIBRARY/LIST/FULL. There is documentation on how to get the history, but no documentation of what the history record formats are. Looks to me like they abandonned the "publishing" process of the library routines halfway through and never came back to it. And these days, their focus is on supporting new HP hardware, it is very doubtful they will come back to stuff dating back from late 1980s. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 22:15:27 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: LBR function result codes still not available Message-ID: <484357bb$0$90267$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Tom Linden wrote: > On Sat, 31 May 2008 20:01:25 -0700, Arne Vajhøj wrote: > >> Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: >>> On May 30, 8:39 pm, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>>> IanMiller wrote: >>>>> lbrdef contains structures and constants needed to call the LBR$ >>>>> routines. Not the condition values returned. >>>> Correct - it don't but it should ! >>> Are you sure? >>> Ok, I did not think this through too long, but it is not clear to me >>> those definitions should ever be hardcoded. >>> By having the linker resolve them, the library function providers have >>> the opportunity to change the values without requiring between-version >>> recompiles. Not that I expect the values will ever change, but they >>> could. >> >> 1) Practically all other return codes seems to be there. >> >> 2) If HP decided to change those values, then it would >> cause a ton of disasters. > > I can not conceive of a reason why the actual values would ever need to be > changed. I agree. > And they should ALWAYS be expressed in SDL and made available through > starlet. Yep. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 12:34:31 +1000 From: Jim Duff Subject: Re: LBR function result codes still not available Message-ID: <48435c3a@dnews.tpgi.com.au> Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: >[snip] > Also, the 'globalvalue' whilest documented as the solution is at the > same time documented as being a VAXX holdover. > It escapse me right now as how to alternatively define a global value. > Best I can quickly think of is to define an extern and then compare > with the address. Yuck. > I must be overlooking somethign simple: > > #include > extern const int LBR$_ILLCREOPT; > main() { > printf (" LBR$_ILLCREOPT = %%x%08x\n", &LBR$_ILLCREOPT ); > } > [snip] $ type lbr.c #include #include #pragma extern_model save #pragma extern_model globalvalue extern const int LBR$_ILLCREOPT; #pragma extern_model restore int main (void) { (void)printf ("LBR$_ILLCREOPT = %%x%08x\n", LBR$_ILLCREOPT); return EXIT_SUCCESS; } $ cc lbr $ link lbr $ r lbr LBR$_ILLCREOPT = %x0026901a $ write sys$output f$message (%x0026901a) %LBR-E-ILLCREOPT, illegal create options Jim. -- www.eight-cubed.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 22:06:06 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: OpenVMS and linux, pros and cons Message-ID: <4843558a$0$90273$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> ultradwc@gmail.com wrote: > OpenVMS people really need to get away from the I need > to be able to buy an app ... > > if you cannot buy it, WRITE IT ... > > has development stopped in the IT world where noone knows > how to write the apps they need and they are toast if they > cannot buy it? Hardware has become cheaper, but software development cost has went up the roof. Requirements for what a system need to do has grown a lot. In house development is a way too costly option for many companies if suitable COTS solutions exist. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 22:14:15 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: OpenVMS and linux, pros and cons Message-ID: <48435775$0$90273$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Main, Kerry wrote: > From: Arne Vajhøj [mailto:arne@vajhoej.dk] >> Main, Kerry wrote: >>>> If you have sufficient customers that want your stuff on *nix >>>> and will not accept it on VMS, then you need to add *nix as >>>> supported platform. >>> You forgot one scenario under the current scenario. Instead of "do nothing", >>> you could also add >>> - upgrade current environment to use latest gui mgmt tools which will simplify >>> the Operational support environment such that any Operator who can handle a mouse >>> can manage an OpenVMS system. >> Most customers has more requirements for their platforms than >> "it can be managed with a mouse". >> >>> Other consideration as well- >>> - is your management under extreme pressures to reduce IT costs and have in >>> place a 2-3 year plan to consolidate servers, OS instances (where biggest >>> staff costs are hidden) and Data Centers? >>> >>> If yes, one bus app per OS instance platforms may not be the right target >>> environment. There are cultural and technical challenges to be considered >>> which will make it extremely difficult to consolidate at some future >> point. >> >> Consolidation is not working *for* VMS but *against* VMS. >> >> Consolidations works for the platforms where all the software is >> available for. >> >> The all VMS shop is a rare animal today. > > So is an all Wintel or an all UNIX shop. Reality is that today's world > is multi-vendor, multi-platform. I am sure there are some examples of > each today, but there are not many - especially in med-large companies. > > Only exceptions might be Microsoft (only Microsoft products) or Sun (no > Microsoft products allowed) .. Most large companies has a bit of everything. But that does not change the fact that when consolidating they consolidate on something where all the apps are available. And that is very rarely VMS. Most likely Linux or Windows. Possible Solaris or AIX. > On your consolidation note - perhaps you can explain to me what the > Cust CIO response should be to the CEO who says "that's great that > you have reduced our HW by 20% by implementing VMware, but please > explain why the number of VM OS's we are supporting grew by 40% and > our staffing numbers are not going down? Please explain to me how > you plan to reduce all of these VM's that have sprung up like > rabbits in the last year .." > > I am not saying they will move to OpenVMS, but the answer to this > question is going to be extremely difficult to answer when you have > a "one bus App, one OS" culture in place. He should reply that the virtualization reduced the HW cost and that SW and hour reduction cost will require: - reduction of number of platforms (and versions of those) - reduction of number of apps Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 12:13:25 -0700 (PDT) From: IanMiller Subject: Re: Patchlevel upgrade? Message-ID: On Jun 1, 6:30 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > The Spriteman wrote: > > Hi guys, > > > i need to explain to some old fashiond sysadmins (who=B6 motto is: Never= > > change a winning team") why we should update al of our VMS systems to th= e > > latest Patchlevels. > > > i know that HP is already telling that, but that=B6 not enough for them.= > > > also having some troubles convincing the Aplication guy=B6 that a patchu= pdate > > doesn't change anything functional to VMS (or its layerd products) > > > can u help me with some amo for this? > > > with Regards, > > > Robin, > > How about a case or two of blanks? > > If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!!!!!!!!!! Patches can include performance improvements and useful new functionality. You have to wade through lots of release notes to find the info :-( ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 15:39:41 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Patchlevel upgrade? Message-ID: IanMiller wrote: > On Jun 1, 6:30 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert" > wrote: >> The Spriteman wrote: >>> Hi guys, >>> i need to explain to some old fashiond sysadmins (who¶ motto is: Never >>> change a winning team") why we should update al of our VMS systems to the >>> latest Patchlevels. >>> i know that HP is already telling that, but that¶ not enough for them. >>> also having some troubles convincing the Aplication guy¶ that a patchupdate >>> doesn't change anything functional to VMS (or its layerd products) >>> can u help me with some amo for this? >>> with Regards, >>> Robin, >> How about a case or two of blanks? >> >> If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!!!!!!!!!! > > > Patches can include performance improvements and useful new > functionality. You have to wade through lots of release notes to find > the info :-( > This is the first time I've heard it suggested that patches add new functionality! Historically, patches have been used to fix bugs. New functionality has typically been introduced in new releases of the software! I would install security patches immediately. Others can wait for my convenience or for the problem to manifest on my system. With a few exceptions, VMS has run well without patches. The problems fixed by patches tend to be obscure and, in my experience, occur infrequently in normal operation. Thank you, VMS Engineering, for a superb product! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 13:08:33 -0700 (PDT) From: FrankS Subject: Re: Patchlevel upgrade? Message-ID: <8d5aa390-df0d-41e4-b685-1e7084683820@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Jun 1, 3:39=A0pm, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > This is the first time I've heard it suggested that patches add new > functionality! There have been cases in the past where a patch to a prior version will include new functionality from a more recent version. For example, giving v6.x some of the v7.x feature set. >=A0Others can wait for my > convenience or for the problem to manifest on my system. So much for preventive maintenance. > Thank you, VMS Engineering, for a > superb product! And for good patches. I can't recall an instance where I installed a patch and had to withdraw it. As a result, I do try to keep my client's systems up to date. The downside is that some of the patches require a system reboot, and there goes the uptime record. Once every six months or so isn't asking too much, though I have let systems run for a year+ before getting around to do the patch updates. I also can't recall a VMS patch ever breaking any applications. They have at times improved performance, so as a general rule I'd say there's no reason to avoid keeping the systems up-to-date as long as the occasional reboot isn't a factor. (And not all patches require a reboot.) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 17:13:09 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: Patchlevel upgrade? Message-ID: On Jun 1, 4:08 pm, FrankS wrote: > On Jun 1, 3:39 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert" > wrote: > > > This is the first time I've heard it suggested that patches add new > > functionality! > > There have been cases in the past where a patch to a prior version > will include new functionality from a more recent version. For > example, giving v6.x some of the v7.x feature set. I had a case in which the new 6.2 BACKUP incremental functionality was added to my 5.5-? system at a job I had in the late 90's (mixed blessing). I think it was part of a Y2K ECO kit, but I had installed at least two other ECO kits specifically to cure some problems (I think it was two), and it might have been one of those. I don't remember. > > > Others can wait for my > > convenience or for the problem to manifest on my system. Oil changes? We don't need no stinking oil changes! ;*) > So much for preventive maintenance. > > > Thank you, VMS Engineering, for a > > superb product! > > And for good patches. I can't recall an instance where I installed a > patch and had to withdraw it. As a result, I do try to keep my > client's systems up to date. The downside is that some of the patches > require a system reboot, and there goes the uptime record. Once every > six months or so isn't asking too much, though I have let systems run > for a year+ before getting around to do the patch updates. Reboot: A good chance to run AUTOGEN! > > I also can't recall a VMS patch ever breaking any applications. They > have at times improved performance, so as a general rule I'd say > there's no reason to avoid keeping the systems up-to-date as long as > the occasional reboot isn't a factor. (And not all patches require a > reboot.) I've never had anything broken by one, either. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 21:02:04 +0200 From: "Martin Vorlaender" Subject: Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Message-ID: VAXman- <@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote: > I need to access a PeeCee running Weendoze 2003. ssh has been installed > and it is running on port 22. I want to change this to another port. I > need to edit the sshd_config file and change this but the file is read- > only AFAICT. Is there any equivalent to DIRECTORY/SECURITY or ls -aFl in > Weendoze and a SET PROTECTION or SECURITY or chmod/chown? attrib [filespec] shows the atributes attrib /? gives online help attrib -R filespec removes the read-only attribute HTH, Martin -- One OS to rule them all | Martin Vorlaender | OpenVMS rules! One OS to find them | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de One OS to bring them all | http://vms.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin.vorlaender@t-online.de ------------------------------ Date: 01 Jun 2008 20:29:43 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Message-ID: <484306b7$0$11628$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article , "Martin Vorlaender" writes: >VAXman- <@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote: >> I need to access a PeeCee running Weendoze 2003. ssh has been installed >> and it is running on port 22. I want to change this to another port. I >> need to edit the sshd_config file and change this but the file is read- >> only AFAICT. Is there any equivalent to DIRECTORY/SECURITY or ls -aFl in >> Weendoze and a SET PROTECTION or SECURITY or chmod/chown? > >attrib [filespec] shows the atributes >attrib /? gives online help >attrib -R filespec removes the read-only attribute ... but from the Administrator account I'm still getting an access error. All I want to do is edit the ssh_config file of a Cygwin ssh installation to change the listener port. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 16:31:00 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Message-ID: <48430702$0$90264$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > I need to access a PeeCee running Weendoze 2003. ssh has been installed > and it is running on port 22. I want to change this to another port. I > need to edit the sshd_config file and change this but the file is read- > only AFAICT. Is there any equivalent to DIRECTORY/SECURITY or ls -aFl in > Weendoze and a SET PROTECTION or SECURITY or chmod/chown? right click, properties, security tab ... You only have access via ssh ? I don't think CMD is suitable for that. But you can use VBS for that. http://support.microsoft.com/?id=825751 Get that xcacl.vbs on the system (even if you do not have any file upload capability then it is text and copy con: should be able to do it) and then you can do both view and change. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 17:34:37 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Message-ID: <484315ea$0$90271$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Arne Vajhøj wrote: > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> I need to access a PeeCee running Weendoze 2003. ssh has been installed >> and it is running on port 22. I want to change this to another port. I >> need to edit the sshd_config file and change this but the file is read- >> only AFAICT. Is there any equivalent to DIRECTORY/SECURITY or ls -aFl in >> Weendoze and a SET PROTECTION or SECURITY or chmod/chown? > > right click, properties, security tab ... > > You only have access via ssh ? > > I don't think CMD is suitable for that. > > But you can use VBS for that. > > http://support.microsoft.com/?id=825751 > > Get that xcacl.vbs on the system (even if you do not have any > file upload capability then it is text and copy con: should > be able to do it) and then you can do both view and change. If you would consider it fun to write it yourself instead of using the MS one, then here are a simple version that does the view part. Arne ============================================================ If WScript.Arguments.Count > 0 Then fnm = WScript.Arguments.Item(0) Else WScript.Echo "Usage: cscript fileinfo.vbs filename" WScript.Quit End If Set fso = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") fnm = fso.GetAbsolutePathName(fnm) Set fso = Nothing Set f = GetObject("winMgmts:CIM_DataFile.Name='" & fnm & "'") WScript.echo "CSName=" & f.CSName WScript.echo "Drive=" & f.Drive WScript.echo "Path=" & f.Path WScript.echo "Name=" & f.Name WScript.echo "FileName=" & f.FileName WScript.echo "Extension=" & f.Extension WScript.echo "EightDotThreeFileName=" & f.EightDotThreeFileName WScript.echo "Size=" & f.FileSize WScript.echo "Archive=" & f.Archive WScript.echo "Hidden=" & f.Hidden WScript.echo "System=" & f.System WScript.echo "Readable=" & f.Readable WScript.echo "Writeable=" & f.Writeable WScript.echo "CreatioNDate=" & f.CreationDate WScript.echo "LastModified" & f.LastModified WScript.echo "LastAccessed=" & f.LastAccessed Set f = Nothing Set wmi = GetObject("winmgmts:") For Each owner in wmi.ExecQuery("ASSOCIATORS OF {Win32_LogicalFileSecuritySetting='" & fnm & "'} WHERE AssocClass=Win32_LogicalFileOwner ResultRole=Owner") WScript.Echo "ReferencedDomainName=" & owner.ReferencedDomainName WScript.Echo "AccountName=" & owner.AccountName Next Set wmi = Nothing Set fs = GetObject("winmgmts:Win32_LogicalFileSecuritySetting.Path='" & fnm & "'") stat = fs.GetSecurityDescriptor(sd) WScript.Echo "Owner.Domain=" & sd.Owner.Domain WScript.Echo "Owner.Name=" & sd.Owner.Name For Each ace in sd.DACL WScript.Echo "Trustee.Domain=" & ace.Trustee.Domain WScript.Echo "Trustee.Name=" & ace.Trustee.Name WScript.Echo "AccessMask=" & ace.AccessMask WScript.Echo "AccessMask READ=" & ((ace.AccessMask And 1) > 0) WScript.Echo "AccessMask WRITE=" & ((ace.AccessMask And 2) > 0) WScript.Echo "AccessMask EXECUTE=" & ((ace.AccessMask And 32) > 0) WScript.Echo "AccessMask DELETE=" & ((ace.AccessMask And 65536) > 0) WScript.Echo "AceFlags=" & ace.AceFlags WScript.Echo "AceType=" & ace.AceType Next Set sd = Nothing set f2 = Nothing ------------------------------ Date: 1 Jun 2008 19:18:03 -0500 From: burley+news@encompasserve.org (Graham Burley) Subject: Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Message-ID: In article <4842be88$0$15167$607ed4bc@cv.net>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > Is there any equivalent to DIRECTORY/SECURITY or ls -aFl in > Weendoze and a SET PROTECTION or SECURITY or chmod/chown? CACLS ? ------------------------------ Date: 02 Jun 2008 00:13:14 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Message-ID: <48433b1a$0$15184$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article <48430702$0$90264$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes: >VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> I need to access a PeeCee running Weendoze 2003. ssh has been installed >> and it is running on port 22. I want to change this to another port. I >> need to edit the sshd_config file and change this but the file is read- >> only AFAICT. Is there any equivalent to DIRECTORY/SECURITY or ls -aFl in >> Weendoze and a SET PROTECTION or SECURITY or chmod/chown? > >right click, properties, security tab ... > >You only have access via ssh ? Yes. >I don't think CMD is suitable for that. > >But you can use VBS for that. > >http://support.microsoft.com/?id=825751 > >Get that xcacl.vbs on the system (even if you do not have any >file upload capability then it is text and copy con: should >be able to do it) and then you can do both view and change. > >Arne Right click, left click... confuses the hell out of this southpaw. This machine is over a thousand miles away. I can't access it to use the GUI. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: 02 Jun 2008 00:20:30 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Message-ID: <48433cce$0$15173$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article <484315ea$0$90271$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes: >Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >>> I need to access a PeeCee running Weendoze 2003. ssh has been installed >>> and it is running on port 22. I want to change this to another port. I >>> need to edit the sshd_config file and change this but the file is read- >>> only AFAICT. Is there any equivalent to DIRECTORY/SECURITY or ls -aFl in >>> Weendoze and a SET PROTECTION or SECURITY or chmod/chown? >> >> right click, properties, security tab ... >> >> You only have access via ssh ? >> >> I don't think CMD is suitable for that. >> >> But you can use VBS for that. >> >> http://support.microsoft.com/?id=825751 >> >> Get that xcacl.vbs on the system (even if you do not have any >> file upload capability then it is text and copy con: should >> be able to do it) and then you can do both view and change. > >If you would consider it fun to write it yourself instead >of using the MS one, then here are a simple version >that does the view part. > >Arne > >============================================================ > >If WScript.Arguments.Count > 0 Then > fnm = WScript.Arguments.Item(0) >Else > WScript.Echo "Usage: cscript fileinfo.vbs filename" Where/how do you set the protection? > WScript.Quit >End If >Set fso = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") >fnm = fso.GetAbsolutePathName(fnm) >Set fso = Nothing >Set f = GetObject("winMgmts:CIM_DataFile.Name='" & fnm & "'") >WScript.echo "CSName=" & f.CSName >WScript.echo "Drive=" & f.Drive >WScript.echo "Path=" & f.Path >WScript.echo "Name=" & f.Name >WScript.echo "FileName=" & f.FileName >WScript.echo "Extension=" & f.Extension >WScript.echo "EightDotThreeFileName=" & f.EightDotThreeFileName >WScript.echo "Size=" & f.FileSize >WScript.echo "Archive=" & f.Archive >WScript.echo "Hidden=" & f.Hidden >WScript.echo "System=" & f.System >WScript.echo "Readable=" & f.Readable >WScript.echo "Writeable=" & f.Writeable >WScript.echo "CreatioNDate=" & f.CreationDate >WScript.echo "LastModified" & f.LastModified >WScript.echo "LastAccessed=" & f.LastAccessed >Set f = Nothing >Set wmi = GetObject("winmgmts:") >For Each owner in wmi.ExecQuery("ASSOCIATORS OF >{Win32_LogicalFileSecuritySetting='" & fnm & "'} WHERE >AssocClass=Win32_LogicalFileOwner ResultRole=Owner") > WScript.Echo "ReferencedDomainName=" & owner.ReferencedDomainName > WScript.Echo "AccountName=" & owner.AccountName >Next >Set wmi = Nothing >Set fs = GetObject("winmgmts:Win32_LogicalFileSecuritySetting.Path='" & >fnm & "'") >stat = fs.GetSecurityDescriptor(sd) >WScript.Echo "Owner.Domain=" & sd.Owner.Domain >WScript.Echo "Owner.Name=" & sd.Owner.Name >For Each ace in sd.DACL > WScript.Echo "Trustee.Domain=" & ace.Trustee.Domain > WScript.Echo "Trustee.Name=" & ace.Trustee.Name > WScript.Echo "AccessMask=" & ace.AccessMask > WScript.Echo "AccessMask READ=" & ((ace.AccessMask And 1) > 0) > WScript.Echo "AccessMask WRITE=" & ((ace.AccessMask And 2) > 0) > WScript.Echo "AccessMask EXECUTE=" & ((ace.AccessMask And 32) > 0) > WScript.Echo "AccessMask DELETE=" & ((ace.AccessMask And 65536) > 0) > WScript.Echo "AceFlags=" & ace.AceFlags > WScript.Echo "AceType=" & ace.AceType >Next >Set sd = Nothing >set f2 = Nothing You've got to be kidding me. All that shite to make a file writeable for a simple configuration file edit. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 20:43:51 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Message-ID: <48434244$0$90263$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <48430702$0$90264$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes: >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >>> I need to access a PeeCee running Weendoze 2003. ssh has been installed >>> and it is running on port 22. I want to change this to another port. I >>> need to edit the sshd_config file and change this but the file is read- >>> only AFAICT. Is there any equivalent to DIRECTORY/SECURITY or ls -aFl in >>> Weendoze and a SET PROTECTION or SECURITY or chmod/chown? >> right click, properties, security tab ... >> >> You only have access via ssh ? > > Yes. :-) >> I don't think CMD is suitable for that. >> >> But you can use VBS for that. >> >> http://support.microsoft.com/?id=825751 >> >> Get that xcacl.vbs on the system (even if you do not have any >> file upload capability then it is text and copy con: should >> be able to do it) and then you can do both view and change. > > Right click, left click... confuses the hell out of this southpaw. > This machine is over a thousand miles away. I can't access it to > use the GUI. xcacl can be run in console mode. Instructions are on the page. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 20:49:12 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Message-ID: <48434386$0$90264$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <484315ea$0$90271$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes: >> If you would consider it fun to write it yourself instead >> of using the MS one, then here are a simple version >> that does the view part. >> If WScript.Arguments.Count > 0 Then >> fnm = WScript.Arguments.Item(0) >> Else >> WScript.Echo "Usage: cscript fileinfo.vbs filename" > > Where/how do you set the protection? The code is only the view part not the update part. You also asked for DIRECTORY/SECURITY equivalent. >> WScript.Quit >> End If >> Set fso = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") >> fnm = fso.GetAbsolutePathName(fnm) >> Set fso = Nothing >> Set f = GetObject("winMgmts:CIM_DataFile.Name='" & fnm & "'") >> WScript.echo "CSName=" & f.CSName >> WScript.echo "Drive=" & f.Drive >> WScript.echo "Path=" & f.Path >> WScript.echo "Name=" & f.Name >> WScript.echo "FileName=" & f.FileName >> WScript.echo "Extension=" & f.Extension >> WScript.echo "EightDotThreeFileName=" & f.EightDotThreeFileName >> WScript.echo "Size=" & f.FileSize >> WScript.echo "Archive=" & f.Archive >> WScript.echo "Hidden=" & f.Hidden >> WScript.echo "System=" & f.System >> WScript.echo "Readable=" & f.Readable >> WScript.echo "Writeable=" & f.Writeable >> WScript.echo "CreatioNDate=" & f.CreationDate >> WScript.echo "LastModified" & f.LastModified >> WScript.echo "LastAccessed=" & f.LastAccessed >> Set f = Nothing >> Set wmi = GetObject("winmgmts:") >> For Each owner in wmi.ExecQuery("ASSOCIATORS OF >> {Win32_LogicalFileSecuritySetting='" & fnm & "'} WHERE >> AssocClass=Win32_LogicalFileOwner ResultRole=Owner") >> WScript.Echo "ReferencedDomainName=" & owner.ReferencedDomainName >> WScript.Echo "AccountName=" & owner.AccountName >> Next >> Set wmi = Nothing >> Set fs = GetObject("winmgmts:Win32_LogicalFileSecuritySetting.Path='" & >> fnm & "'") >> stat = fs.GetSecurityDescriptor(sd) >> WScript.Echo "Owner.Domain=" & sd.Owner.Domain >> WScript.Echo "Owner.Name=" & sd.Owner.Name >> For Each ace in sd.DACL >> WScript.Echo "Trustee.Domain=" & ace.Trustee.Domain >> WScript.Echo "Trustee.Name=" & ace.Trustee.Name >> WScript.Echo "AccessMask=" & ace.AccessMask >> WScript.Echo "AccessMask READ=" & ((ace.AccessMask And 1) > 0) >> WScript.Echo "AccessMask WRITE=" & ((ace.AccessMask And 2) > 0) >> WScript.Echo "AccessMask EXECUTE=" & ((ace.AccessMask And 32) > 0) >> WScript.Echo "AccessMask DELETE=" & ((ace.AccessMask And 65536) > 0) >> WScript.Echo "AceFlags=" & ace.AceFlags >> WScript.Echo "AceType=" & ace.AceType >> Next >> Set sd = Nothing >> set f2 = Nothing > > You've got to be kidding me. All that shite to make a file writeable for a > simple configuration file edit. If you were to code DIR/SEC in C it would also be a few lines of code. As I said this is only if you want to code it yourself. If not then use the XCACLS I linked to. Or maybe even better use the CACLS that Graham referred to, because that one is probably already on the system. Try: cacls /? and see if it is there. (or look for C:\WINDOWS\system32\cacls.exe) Arne ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.306 ************************