INFO-VAX Tue, 29 Apr 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 238 Contents: Re: 8.3 Alpha Upgrade Tips Re: 8.3 Alpha Upgrade Tips Re: Any one out there have VAX APL Manuals Re: DEC-BASIC Capablities Re: DEC-BASIC Capablities Re: DEC-BASIC Capablities Re: DEC-BASIC Capablities Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86 Re: Odd backup corruption Re: Odd backup corruption Re: Odd backup corruption Re: scripting a telnet session to VMS Re: scripting a telnet session to VMS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 20:50:07 +0100 From: Mike Subject: Re: 8.3 Alpha Upgrade Tips Message-ID: Jan-Erik wrote: >Mike wrote: > > > Rephrasing the original question, if you had a choice, would you > > upgrade 7.3 to 8.3 (possibly requiring an intermediate upgrade) or > > re-build live onto 8.3? > > That's highly dependent on what's on the sys-disk ! One licenced app plus the usual gamut of freeware apps co-resident with the OS. > *I* would probably do two upgrades (if needed, and if > I had access to the medias needed). The hobbyist kits are thankfully now available. Rebuilding vs. updating. I guess though if the OS "jump" was big enough you'd rebuild? Would your choice be influenced by the wish to make the cold standby a little warmer? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:25:27 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: 8.3 Alpha Upgrade Tips Message-ID: Mike wrote: > Jan-Erik wrote: >> Mike wrote: >> >> > Rephrasing the original question, if you had a choice, would you >> > upgrade 7.3 to 8.3 (possibly requiring an intermediate upgrade) or >> > re-build live onto 8.3? >> >> That's highly dependent on what's on the sys-disk ! > > One licenced app plus the usual gamut of freeware apps co-resident > with the OS. > >> *I* would probably do two upgrades (if needed, and if >> I had access to the medias needed). > > The hobbyist kits are thankfully now available. > > Rebuilding vs. updating. I guess though if the OS "jump" was big > enough you'd rebuild? My choice whould be based on the work of doing two upgrades vs. the job to re-install the app and all freewares. The end result is the same. In most cases (with users registred in UAF, queues setup and so on) I'd go the upgrade route. Jan-Erik. > > Would your choice be influenced by the wish to make the cold standby > a little warmer? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:59:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: Any one out there have VAX APL Manuals Message-ID: <1c5476c0-abd7-4798-8a83-db1d60149e6d@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On Apr 26, 3:08 pm, urbancamo wrote: > Sorry for repeating myself, but does anyone out there have a set of > the VAX APL Manuals? > > Thanks for your time, > > Mark. I certainly don't have hardcopy. Would they have ever been available on the CONDIST/CONDOC sets? If so any idea what timeframe? I do have some moderately old ones of those but stored offsite so I can't look at them now. Rich ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 20:06:54 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: DEC-BASIC Capablities Message-ID: <48166699$0$90270$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Steve Pisani wrote: > I'm relatively new to this environment, so I'm hoping to get some info > from this forum. > > On one side I have an application running on OpenVMS written in DEC- > BASIC which maintains RMS files. > On the other side I have a relational DB (Cache from InterSystems) > > The relational DB allows me to extract/update information into it via > a number of methods, namely, via ODBC calls, or programs written in C, > C++, Java, .NET... and other technologies. > > The task is to modify the DEC-BASIC information such that I can send > data to the relational Database. Whilst I know the capabilities > afforded to me by the rdbms side, I do not knwo what capabilities DEC- > BASIC has. > > so - > > 1/ Does DEC-BASIC have commands that allow me to make ODBC calls ? If > so - what do I need to set this up? If you have a Cache ODBC driver for VMS and you are capable of writing Basic code that calls the ODBC API (which is C based) as C would, then YES. Basic---(ODBC)---Cache ODBC------Cache > 2/ Can a DEC-BASIC program call a C++ program ? If so - does this need > to be "linked" in with the BASIC object. You can call C++ functions declared with extern "C" without any problems. VMS has excellent cross-language capabilities (for procedural programming). Basic---(your C style API)---C++---(ODBC)---Cache ODBC------Cache This still requires an ODBC driver for VMS. > 3/ Can a DEC-BASIC program call a Java program ? Yes. Basic---(JNI)---Java---(JDBC)---Cache If the JDBC driver is a type 4 driver you can use a generic driver (does not need a VMS specifc). But the JNI interface is a bit cumbersome to use. I would not recommend this solution. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 20:08:18 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: DEC-BASIC Capablities Message-ID: <481666eb$0$90270$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > Steve Pisani wrote: >> 3/ Can a DEC-BASIC program call a Java program ? > I don't think so but I'm not really an expert on anything to do with > Java. You would probably have to call LIB$SPAWN to create a process to > run the Java interpreter. The JVM is callable via a C API. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 20:28:37 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: DEC-BASIC Capablities Message-ID: <48166bae$0$90275$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <60abd1e3-674d-452f-ad33-2e0ffa83907b@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>, Steve Pisani writes: >> 1/ Does DEC-BASIC have commands that allow me to make ODBC calls ? If >> so - what do I need to set this up? > > I might be possible that the ODBC API was written in such a way as > not to be directly callable form BASIC, but I doubt it. The ODBC API is a classic C API. Simple extract from sql.h: ... typedef short SWORD; ... typedef SWORD SQLSMALLINT; ... typedef SQLSMALLINT SQLRETURN; ... typedef void* SQLHANDLE; ... typedef SQLHANDLE SQLHENV; ... SQLRETURN SQL_API SQLAllocEnv(SQLHENV*); ... Arne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:49:51 GMT From: "Jeffrey H. Coffield" Subject: Re: DEC-BASIC Capablities Message-ID: Steve Pisani wrote: > Hi, > > I'm relatively new to this environment, so I'm hoping to get some info > from this forum. > > On one side I have an application running on OpenVMS written in DEC- > BASIC which maintains RMS files. > On the other side I have a relational DB (Cache from InterSystems) > > The relational DB allows me to extract/update information into it via > a number of methods, namely, via ODBC calls, or programs written in C, > C++, Java, .NET... and other technologies. > > The task is to modify the DEC-BASIC information such that I can send > data to the relational Database. Whilst I know the capabilities > afforded to me by the rdbms side, I do not knwo what capabilities DEC- > BASIC has. > > so - > > 1/ Does DEC-BASIC have commands that allow me to make ODBC calls ? If > so - what do I need to set this up? > 2/ Can a DEC-BASIC program call a C++ program ? If so - does this need > to be "linked" in with the BASIC object. > 3/ Can a DEC-BASIC program call a Java program ? > > Any feedback appreciated.. > > Thanks > > Steve I have developed a Java to RMS interface that uses VMS Basic to receive connections from a Java program. I am currently working on an open source version of it but it's not quite ready (in my opinion) to be released. In addition to access to RMS files, it has the capability to call VMS subprograms. If you are interested I can give you more info. Jeff Coffield www.digitalsynergyinc.coim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:57:39 -0500 From: pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) Subject: Re: Intel Itanium RAS Comparison with X86 Message-ID: In article <6795a6F2npagmU2@mid.individual.net>, Bill Gunshannon wrote: >In article <480f23a1$0$25036$607ed4bc@cv.net>, > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >> In article <677i8hF2k0pq2U2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu >(Bill Gunshannon) writes: > >When I am not on active duty I do my military duty in Gettysburg. Perkins >is the only place open early enough and with service fast enough for me to >have breakfast before I have to report to work. And I am definitely a >breakfast person. Of course, a Denny's would be better. :-) I knew there was somewhere we see eye to eye. One thing about Field Service in the Central NJ area... especially on 2nd and third shift. You grow to appreciate NJ Diners and places that serve 24x7. There was this little waffle-house-like place near Lawrenceville I remember near Naval Air Propulsion... Boy... I remember it more than the 11/70 they had. >Now we can start a new thread on where to eat when yu are in the middle of > nowhere. > >bill > > >-- >Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves >billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. >University of Scranton | >Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include Lousy nuked burrito's in the 7-11 by I-195 near Trenton. Field Service breakfast of champions on my way home at 3AM along with a Big Gulp or Slurpee and a bag of Doritos. No wonder I couldn't wait to get off second shift and quit DEC eventially to do it. Bill -- -- "When I think back on all the crap I learned in Vax school It's a wonder I fixed anything at all." (to the tune of Kodachrome) pechter-at-ureach.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:53:28 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: Odd backup corruption Message-ID: In article , nospam@picard.eurokom.ie says... > Greetings, > > I've seen the following bizarre situation with BACKUP on an Alpha PS 433au. > > OpenVMS7.3-2 with UPDATE 12 (which includes BACKUP 7). > BACKUP 7 appears to be the latest BACKUP patch, but UPDATE 15 is current, and there have been lots of driver (FIBRE_SCSI), SYS, RMS, and maybe some XFC (cache) patches since UPDATE 12, so it could be one of those. That said, I have a customer site running 4 Alphas on VMS V7.3-2, UPDATE 13 for the last 7 months with no signs of corruption. They use BACKUP all the time for disk-to-disk file copies. Previously, they were using earlier UPDATE levels, always worked fine. Does BACKUP complain if done with /verify? Does BACKUP/COMPARE say the files are the same or different? > $ copy temp-input.ps temp-copy.ps > $ diff temp-input.ps temp-copy.ps > Number of difference sections found: 0 > Number of difference records found: 0 > > DIFFERENCES /IGNORE=()/MERGED=1- > DKA0:[TEMP]TEMP-INPUT.PS;1- > DKA0:[TEMP]TEMP-COPY.PS;2 > > SO far so good. Similar result for CONVERT. Now for BACKUP > > $ backup temp-input.ps temp-backup.ps > $ diff temp-input.ps temp-backup.ps > File DKA0:[TEMP]TEMP-INPUT.PS;1 > 119 GetPageDeviceName @ type @/nametype ne ~/stringtype ne > and{!/none}if(.)5 > 120 -1 1{^ length add}for string 6 1 $ 5 ^ 5{~ 1 ^ cvs length 1 ^ > length 1 ^ > ****** > File DKA0:[TEMP]TEMP-BACKUP.PS;1 > 119 GetPageD @/nametype ne ~/stringtype ne and{!/none}if(.)5 > 120 -1 1{^ length add}for string 6 1 $ 5 ^ 5{~ 1 ^ cvs length 1 ^ > length 1 ^ > ************ > ************ > File DKA0:[TEMP]TEMP-INPUT.PS;1 > 300 ex cy flipXY -1 eq {exch} if itransform pop > 301 x2 sub /eShift exch def > ****** > File DKA0:[TEMP]TEMP-BACKUP.PS;1 > 300 eeviceName @ typeq {exch} if itransform pop > 301 x2 sub /eShift exch def > ************ > %DIFF-F-READERR, error reading DKA0:[TEMP]TEMP-BACKUP.PS;1 > -RMS-W-RTB, 26988 byte record too large for user's buffer > > The file produced is the same size, and has the same RMS attributes > > File Organization: sequential > Record Format: variable > Record Attributes: carriage-return > Maximum Record Size: 0 > Longest Record: 153 > Blocks Allocated: 600, Default Extend Size: 0 > End-of-File VBN: 542, Offset: %X'008A' > File Monitoring: disabled > File Length Hint (Record Count): -1 (invalid) > File Length Hint (Data Byte Count): -1 (invalid) > Global Buffer Count: 0 > > However, the file is corrupted. > > I also noticed the following: > > 1. The problem arises when trying to copy a file (as above), or > extracting a file from a Backup saveset. Writing a backup saveset is > OK, as I can move the newly created saveset to another machine, and > unpack the file successfully there. > > 2. The problem occurs irrespective of which disk (there are two) is used. > > 3. I tried copying over the BACKUP.EXE and BACKUPSHR.EXE from another > 7.3-2 machine (with UPDATE 4) and the same thing happens. The problem > does not occur on this second machine (I remembered to INSTALL REPLACE). > > 4. SHOW ERROR produces NOERRORS (no device errors found). > > I am somewhat perplexed. Silent corruption from BACKUP is not something > I would have expected. > > Has anyone seen anything like this ? > No hardware errors are logged, but it does sound like it could be an undetected hardware error (CPU cache, SCSI bus termination or noise etc.) Pretty scary idea :-( Is it consistent and reproducible (Does the same file get corrupted the exact same way each time?) Can you try installing BACKUP 7 on the system with BACKUP 4, to see if it works fine there? (I think BACKUP 7 is recent enough to support /SAVE_RECOVERY_DATA on the PRODUCT INSTALL and no reboot is required, so you could roll it back if it causes problems. It could be BACKUP 7 only causes problems if some other ECO is not also installed. The happy customer systems also have AUDSRV 5, CLIUTL 1, and PTHREAD 6. Two of them also have LIBRTL 2, MANAGE 6, STARLETOLB 1 and SYS 14, installed a month later, plus whatever is in UPDATE 13 but not in UPDATE 12. UPDATE 13 and SYS 14 require a reboot, not sure about the others (except BACKUP 7, which I looked at, does *not*.) > --------------------------------------------------------- > Tom Wade | EMail: tee dot wade at eurokom dot ie > EuroKom | Tel: +353 (1) 296-9696 > A2, Nutgrove Office Park | Fax: +353 (1) 296-9697 > Rathfarnham | Disclaimer: This is not a disclaimer > Dublin 14 | Tip: "Friends don't let friends do Unix !" > Ireland > -- John ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:58:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Volker Halle Subject: Re: Odd backup corruption Message-ID: <3fe66eca-5948-4009-9279-91d8a73a565a@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com> Tom, try to find out, where in the file the 'corruption' is located. Dump the blocks and find the block/byte offset of the corrupted data. Is the corruption on a block boundary ? What is the size of the corruption (byte,word,longword,quadword) ? This may as well be a hardware problem. What does BACKUP/VERIFY have to say ? Volker. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:26:41 +0100 From: "John Wallace" Subject: Re: Odd backup corruption Message-ID: "Tom Wade" wrote in message news:QElRj.25217$j7.467250@news.indigo.ie... > Greetings, > > I've seen the following bizarre situation with BACKUP on an Alpha PS 433au. > > OpenVMS7.3-2 with UPDATE 12 (which includes BACKUP 7). > > $ copy temp-input.ps temp-copy.ps > $ diff temp-input.ps temp-copy.ps > Number of difference sections found: 0 > Number of difference records found: 0 > > DIFFERENCES /IGNORE=()/MERGED=1- > DKA0:[TEMP]TEMP-INPUT.PS;1- > DKA0:[TEMP]TEMP-COPY.PS;2 > > SO far so good. Similar result for CONVERT. Now for BACKUP > > $ backup temp-input.ps temp-backup.ps > $ diff temp-input.ps temp-backup.ps > File DKA0:[TEMP]TEMP-INPUT.PS;1 > 119 GetPageDeviceName @ type @/nametype ne ~/stringtype ne > and{!/none}if(.)5 > 120 -1 1{^ length add}for string 6 1 $ 5 ^ 5{~ 1 ^ cvs length 1 ^ > length 1 ^ > ****** > File DKA0:[TEMP]TEMP-BACKUP.PS;1 > 119 GetPageD @/nametype ne ~/stringtype ne and{!/none}if(.)5 > 120 -1 1{^ length add}for string 6 1 $ 5 ^ 5{~ 1 ^ cvs length 1 ^ > length 1 ^ > ************ > ************ > File DKA0:[TEMP]TEMP-INPUT.PS;1 > 300 ex cy flipXY -1 eq {exch} if itransform pop > 301 x2 sub /eShift exch def > ****** > File DKA0:[TEMP]TEMP-BACKUP.PS;1 > 300 eeviceName @ typeq {exch} if itransform pop > 301 x2 sub /eShift exch def > ************ > %DIFF-F-READERR, error reading DKA0:[TEMP]TEMP-BACKUP.PS;1 > -RMS-W-RTB, 26988 byte record too large for user's buffer > > The file produced is the same size, and has the same RMS attributes > > File Organization: sequential > Record Format: variable > Record Attributes: carriage-return > Maximum Record Size: 0 > Longest Record: 153 > Blocks Allocated: 600, Default Extend Size: 0 > End-of-File VBN: 542, Offset: %X'008A' > File Monitoring: disabled > File Length Hint (Record Count): -1 (invalid) > File Length Hint (Data Byte Count): -1 (invalid) > Global Buffer Count: 0 > > However, the file is corrupted. > > I also noticed the following: > > 1. The problem arises when trying to copy a file (as above), or > extracting a file from a Backup saveset. Writing a backup saveset is > OK, as I can move the newly created saveset to another machine, and > unpack the file successfully there. > > 2. The problem occurs irrespective of which disk (there are two) is used. > > 3. I tried copying over the BACKUP.EXE and BACKUPSHR.EXE from another > 7.3-2 machine (with UPDATE 4) and the same thing happens. The problem > does not occur on this second machine (I remembered to INSTALL REPLACE). > > 4. SHOW ERROR produces NOERRORS (no device errors found). > > I am somewhat perplexed. Silent corruption from BACKUP is not something > I would have expected. > > Has anyone seen anything like this ? > > --------------------------------------------------------- > Tom Wade | EMail: tee dot wade at eurokom dot ie > EuroKom | Tel: +353 (1) 296-9696 > A2, Nutgrove Office Park | Fax: +353 (1) 296-9697 > Rathfarnham | Disclaimer: This is not a disclaimer > Dublin 14 | Tip: "Friends don't let friends do Unix !" > Ireland In addition to suggestions already posted (in particular, I agree with the suggestion of posting a "DUMP /BLOCK" of the relevant part of the files)... How much memory is there in this box? My recollection is that the PWS, being a PC-class machine, has no memory error detection or correction for main memory. In this respect, more memory = worse (because it increases the likelihood of an undetected error). Many Alphas used to have some kind of console-mode memory diagnostic, does a PWS have one, if it does, have you tried it? I also had a very very very vague recollection of a specific IDE DMA problem with the Pyxis chip (the CPU<->outside bus interface) in (some of the) PWS workstations; you can read more at e.g. http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/linux/axp/2003-q1/0088.html - please ignore the Linux in the subject, there is an underlying *hardware* issue which for most purposes was believed to have been hidden by driver-level workarounds and relatively simple signal integrity measures (signal integrity is again something that most PC-class machines and OSes and users don't much care about). Also note that the DMA problem was later 'fixed' with a hardware workaround; the article provides a method for telling whether your PWS is (a) affected (b) fixed. If Atlant was here, he'd have more info. Best of luck, John ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 20:30:24 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: scripting a telnet session to VMS Message-ID: <48166c19$0$90275$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: >> Just because you haven't heard of it happening does mean that it never >> happens. > > That should obviously have been > > " > Just because you haven't heard of it happening doesn't mean that it never > happens. > " I could figure that out. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:39:49 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: scripting a telnet session to VMS Message-ID: <48167c60$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > In article <4814d72c$0$90263$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes: >> That is not hacking unless the malware is targeted against a >> specific PC. >> > I've seen tons of desktop "classroom" PCs which were infected with backdoor > programs by students so that they could show off by ejecting the CD or > controlling the machine in some otherway remotely. These were definitely > targeted at the machines in those particular classrooms and used programs such > as B02K, Sub7 etc etc But if the students has been granted access to the systems, then it is still not hacking. > From a hacker perspective installing a RAT on a user's PC and recording his > keystrokes whilst he logs in through the company firewall would definitely > be a better option than directly attacking the firewall. Absolutely. I just think it is very rare that the malware gets installed via hacking. Sending them an email with "click on this EXE to see a nude picture of xxxxxxxxxx" seems to be the preferred way. >> >> It is definitely possible. But it just never seems to happen in >> real life. >> > Just because you haven't heard of it happening does mean that it never > happens. True. But we hear daily about virus infections etc.. If one hear about 1000 cases of A and 0 cases of B over a year it is rather obvious to conclude that A is much more frequent than B. It does not mean that B can not happen. > There have also been a number of cases where after a court case involving > pornography the defendent has been declared innocent since the computer > involved had backdoor programs installed on it which could have been used to > plant the pictures. > > "A landmark trial recently found that illegal pornography had been placed on an > innocent man's computer by a trojan program..." trojan != hacking There are millions of PC's infected with all kinds of malware. Arne ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.238 ************************