INFO-VAX Tue, 22 Jan 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 43 Contents: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: automated DECWrite doc to postscript Re: automated DECWrite doc to postscript Re: automated DECWrite doc to postscript Re: automated DECWrite doc to postscript Re: encrypt / decrypt - Anything available for Tru64 ? Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: Marketing of operating sytems Re: Marketing of operating sytems Re: our toll free number is down Re: Send mail without a file Re: Send mail without a file The global village, the operating system version Re: This NG seems unusually quiet... Toll Free Number back up Re: VMS to Nexsan storage? Re: Why Writers Buy Asbestos Undies windows server (was F$UNIQUE library function) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:37:29 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <4794F479.2050807@comcast.net> VAXman- wrote: > In article <4794D25D.2030008@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > >> >>VAXman- wrote: >> >>>In article <4794B925.5030903@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >>> >>> >>>>Bob Koehler wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>In article <4793B85E.6040901@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>The the VMS source was/is available but it wasn't/isn't cheap and the >>>>>>licensing issues are a real obstacle! I'm not sure that the *complete* >>>>>>and *buildable* source was ever released. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The VMS source listings did ship with the binaries and later only >>>>> cost a couple $K. But those of us who've had access to it take our >>>>> knowledge seriously and avoid contributing to FreeVMS so that it >>>>> won't be subject to IP lawsuits. >>>>> >>>> >>>>Yeah! I think I have microfiche source listings for VMS V4.x somewhere. >>>>They can be a big help if you are trying to interpret a crash dump of >>>>the version you have AND you are familiar with VMS Internals. But, VMS >>>>doesn't crash all that often, and the crash dump weenies in Colorado are >>>>a hell of lot better at it than I am. (I saw, at most, two crash dumps >>>>per year and the dump weenies do three or four per day!) >>> >>> >>>WEENIES! I happen to be a _crash_dump_weenie_ and I know several of the >>>"crash dump weenies in Colorado" too. I sat in Rob Eulenstein's class: >>>OpenVMS crash dump analysis _for_crash_dump_weenies_ given by a _crash_- >>>_dump_weenie_ (Rob Eulenstein) _from_Colorado_. I've also been in crash >>>dump classes headed up by another _crash_dump_weenie_, Ruth Goldenberg, >>>back in 1992 for Alpha. Good company in this "pack of weenies". >>> >> >>Ruth "wrote the book". I'm fortunate enough to have a copy of her text >>on crash dump analysis "VAX/VMS Troubleshooting" EY-5315E-P0-0001. The > > > I have all the VMS internals books (Kenah's predated Ruth's contributions) > and the EY-5315E-P0-0001 of which you speak. (Revision 0.C Parts 1 and 2) > > > > >>lady knows her stuff and writes well too! I attended a class at a DECUS >> Symposium as well. I never saw enough dumps to get the kind of >>practice it takes to be able to read one like a comic book! One or two >>per year just does not generate the incentive or the experience it takes >>to get really good at it. > > > Hacking in kernel mode all these years, I've seen many many more than you. > Well, that's one good way to generate a lot of crash dumps! :-) My life is not yet so boring that I need to take up kernel mode hacking. I expect that VMS Engineering has done a far better job than I ever could! ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jan 2008 22:14:33 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <5vkjq8F1lpt8bU1@mid.individual.net> In article <4794D25D.2030008@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > VAXman- wrote: >> In article <4794B925.5030903@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >> >>> >>>Bob Koehler wrote: >>> >>>>In article <4793B85E.6040901@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >>>> >>>> >>>>>The the VMS source was/is available but it wasn't/isn't cheap and the >>>>>licensing issues are a real obstacle! I'm not sure that the *complete* >>>>>and *buildable* source was ever released. >>>> >>>> >>>> The VMS source listings did ship with the binaries and later only >>>> cost a couple $K. But those of us who've had access to it take our >>>> knowledge seriously and avoid contributing to FreeVMS so that it >>>> won't be subject to IP lawsuits. >>>> >>> >>>Yeah! I think I have microfiche source listings for VMS V4.x somewhere. >>>They can be a big help if you are trying to interpret a crash dump of >>>the version you have AND you are familiar with VMS Internals. But, VMS >>>doesn't crash all that often, and the crash dump weenies in Colorado are >>>a hell of lot better at it than I am. (I saw, at most, two crash dumps >>>per year and the dump weenies do three or four per day!) >> >> >> WEENIES! I happen to be a _crash_dump_weenie_ and I know several of the >> "crash dump weenies in Colorado" too. I sat in Rob Eulenstein's class: >> OpenVMS crash dump analysis _for_crash_dump_weenies_ given by a _crash_- >> _dump_weenie_ (Rob Eulenstein) _from_Colorado_. I've also been in crash >> dump classes headed up by another _crash_dump_weenie_, Ruth Goldenberg, >> back in 1992 for Alpha. Good company in this "pack of weenies". >> > > Ruth "wrote the book". I'm fortunate enough to have a copy of her text > on crash dump analysis "VAX/VMS Troubleshooting" EY-5315E-P0-0001. The > lady knows her stuff and writes well too! I attended a class at a DECUS > Symposium as well. I never saw enough dumps to get the kind of > practice it takes to be able to read one like a comic book! One or two > per year just does not generate the incentive or the experience it takes > to get really good at it. I never had a chance (or a reason) to deal with a VMS Dump but back in my IBM COBOL/Fortran days I was quite good at interpreting IBM Dumps. A dump and a listing and I could point you right to the line of source code that caused it. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:17:20 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <47951a54$0$15754$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > Really? What percent of the kernel has been re-written? My guess is > less than 1%. It's linux. And until you take the time and effort to > write an entire new kernel that implements the VMS paradigm as opposed > to the Unix paradigm it will continue to be nothing bu Linux with a > different user interface. When VMS was moved from VAX to Alpha, there were many claims that "VMS is VMS" even if the innards were very different, your apps would recompile and run without much trouble. And again, when VMS was moved to that IA64 contraption, the same was said, even though big portion of the booting process had to be rewritten , and the image file format changed to follow Intel stanards. If freeVMS ends up having a different kernel, but to the user and system manager, it still looks and smells like VMS, then there is no reason to discredit it. And if that project does succeed, then it is the one that should have the rights to the name "open VMS". ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jan 2008 22:24:36 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <5vkkd3F1lpt8bU2@mid.individual.net> In article , JKB writes: > Le 21-01-2008, à propos de > Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS?, > Bill Gunshannon écrivait dans comp.os.vms : >> In article , >> JKB writes: >>> No. FreeVMS _was_ built over a 2.4.15 linux kernel. Only _was_. >>> There are today a lot of differences between a linux kernel and >>> FreeVMS. >> >> Really? What percent of the kernel has been re-written? My guess is >> less than 1%. It's linux. And until you take the time and effort to >> write an entire new kernel that implements the VMS paradigm as opposed >> to the Unix paradigm it will continue to be nothing bu Linux with a >> different user interface. > > You just prove that you've never seen FreeVMS sources. A lot of > internal have been rewritten to implement VMS paradigms. I have as much reason and desire to see it as I do Linux kernel code. But you failed to answer the question. What percentage of the code is origina linux kernel and what percentage is unique to FreeVMS? If we go back to the (in)famous BSDI/AT&T lawsuit we find that a court held that BSDI was shipping AT&T proprietary Unix code when in the end it was determined to be only about a dozen lines out of all the kernel sources. Changing less than 1% hardly makes it not a linux kernel. > >>> If you download 0.3.9 sources you shall see that kernel is >>> only a part of these sources and if its directory is named "linux", >>> it isn't a linux kernel. >> >> The OS is the kernel. The kernel is the OS. If the kernel is still >> primarily composed of code written by the linux weenies then it is >> not really VMS at all and, as Kerry should be pointing out, it suffers >> from all the same bugs, security problems and necessatu patching as >> any other linux kernel. > > No. You cannot patch this kernel with linux patches because it's NOT > a linux kernel. I don't know if there is more or less bugs than in > linux kernel, but these bugs are _different_. Any bugs you have contributed are in addition to the well known ones that Kerry loves to trot out here all the time. Unless you can assure everyone that all those bugs have been removed. Somehow, I doubt that. > >> Let me know when you plan to clean-room clone the VMS kernel, which is >> what Linus (supposedly) did to create Linux. > > Your supposition is erroneous. Linus has modified Minix kernel. > Is Linux a Minix kernel ? And how does that counter my aegument? Linus (and supposedly those who later contributed) did not see Unix code. Minix is no more Unix than Linux is. Is Linux a Minix kernel? Based on Tannenbaum's opinion of Linus and linux (an opinion I wholeheartedly agree with) I doubt he would allow any formal claim by the linux camp to being true Minix. > >> Then and only then will >> what you have even vaguely resemble VMS rather than being just another >> linux distro. > > FreeVMS is not a new linux distro. What was it that Bob Koehler said? "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck." bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:29:17 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <47951CBC.4F28A193@spam.comcast.net> Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > > In article <4786D5CC.94F055F1@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera > writes: > > > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > > > > > > In article <4781869B.FA5DD8F1@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera > > > writes: > > > > > > > There is a Free VMS project around. Haven't heard much about it lately, > > > > though. Google this group for the Free VMS project. > > > > > > It's been around for years and what they have is very rudimentary. > > > > Remember the early days of Linux? > > What was the time span between Linus's first attempts and the first > ready-to-use "commercial" Linux? Certainly MUCH less than the time > between the beginning of Free VMS and now. How long has the original VMS source code been completely available for purchase? Companies could buy the UNIX source code from AT&T and modify/support it as they saw fit. VMS has likely had little such interest, with a few noteworthy exceptions I once heard about could not read back to you at his late date. How many BBS's or websites have carried the FreeVMS source code? What's the motivation for the community at-large? For that matter, what's the demotivation? Linus, et al had few concerns about copyright until the AT&T and SCO things came about many years apart. That VMS has always been a commercial product is well known. > And, of course, Unix is much > easier to do than VMS. Well, yes and no. Since the base o.s. is relatively feature-poor compared to VMS, yes, it is much simpler/easier: not so much to get in the way (like RMS, ODS, etc.). Then again, since the base o.s. is relatively feature-poor compared to VMS, no it isn't easier/simpler since so many "wheels" have to be re-invented (no RTL, no DCL, no RMS, etc.). David J Dachtera DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jan 2008 22:31:39 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <5vkkqbF1lpt8bU3@mid.individual.net> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article <5vjmf7F1ldmcnU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >> The OS is the kernel. The kernel is the OS. > > A kernel without utilities is not an OS. I disagree. There are many embeded systems that have no utilities that are an OS just the same. The stuff on top of the kernel are applications, wether they come from the OS vendor or from someone outside. > It's a start. You couldn't > give away Linux to very many people without the gnu utilities bundled > in. But the utility of the OS is totally unrelated to wether or not it is, in fact, an OS. OS9 is an OS. It can and is often used without any of the Unix like add-ons. CPM is also an OS. One would hardly say that because it runs on top of VMS that Oracle is part of the OS. What would make it any different than any of the other userland stuff that runs on top of Linux? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:30:24 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <47951dee$0$26778$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Bob Koehler wrote: > The VMS source listings did ship with the binaries and later only > cost a couple $K. But those of us who've had access to it take our > knowledge seriously and avoid contributing to FreeVMS so that it > won't be subject to IP lawsuits. I doubt very much HP will take notice of free VMS. 1- HP has shown that the loss of VMS customers is perfectly acceptable (by telling Cerner it is OK to stop developping for VMS). Wether it is IBM or freeVMS that steals VMS customers, HP is perfectly happy losing those customers. 2- HP has shown that it has no intention of leveraging and further developping the IP within VMS in its maintream products. It abandonned plans to move the Digital clustering technology to HP-UX. And it has stopped development on most of the VMS interactive utilities, having sent them to "maintenance mode" in India. (TPU, Decterm, Mail etc come to mind). 3- Over the years, the various owners of VMS have donated bits of VMS IP to Microsoft and Oracle and probably others, so it isn't as if HP wants to retain exclusive use of that IP. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:37:11 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <47951e90$0$90275$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> JF Mezei wrote: >> The desktop world is 95% Windows, > > Maybe inside HP it is. But in the real world, Windows is way down on the > desktop. (I think it is down to 85%). I think the 95% is rather accurate. Linux is still waiting for the big breakthrough at the desktop. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 22:49:41 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: In article , JKB writes: > Today, FreeVMS is _only_ a VMS clone. How long has the project been going on? What has it got to offer? Does anyone outside the project take it seriously? > But it is the only chance to > keep VMS alive for a long time. I'm not a lawyer, but presumably if it becomes viable HP can and will take legal action against it. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jan 2008 22:50:47 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <5vklu7F1lpt8bU6@mid.individual.net> In article <47951a54$0$15754$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >> Really? What percent of the kernel has been re-written? My guess is >> less than 1%. It's linux. And until you take the time and effort to >> write an entire new kernel that implements the VMS paradigm as opposed >> to the Unix paradigm it will continue to be nothing bu Linux with a >> different user interface. > > > When VMS was moved from VAX to Alpha, there were many claims that "VMS > is VMS" even if the innards were very different, your apps would > recompile and run without much trouble. > > And again, when VMS was moved to that IA64 contraption, the same was > said, even though big portion of the booting process had to be rewritten > , and the image file format changed to follow Intel stanards. > > > If freeVMS ends up having a different kernel, but to the user and system > manager, it still looks and smells like VMS, then there is no reason to > discredit it. I think you are missing the point. I thas nothing to do with what it can or can not be called. If it is still primarily a linux kernel then it will have all the same bugs and security problems that other linux kernels have. And trying to equate this to something that is we are expected to believe is 100% stable and bullet-proof seems rather a stretch. And I would expect the VSM faithful to be the first ones who would complain about this kind of a travesty. > > And if that project does succeed, then it is the one that should have > the rights to the name "open VMS". It's not about names, but, as I stated above, I would think the VMS faithful would be totally against calling something that is really just linux under the hood VMS. After all, there were much better alternatives as starting points. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:19:44 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <479536A0.3040908@comcast.net> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article <4794D25D.2030008@comcast.net>, > "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > >>VAXman- wrote: >> >>>In article <4794B925.5030903@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >>> >>> >>>>Bob Koehler wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>In article <4793B85E.6040901@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>The the VMS source was/is available but it wasn't/isn't cheap and the >>>>>>licensing issues are a real obstacle! I'm not sure that the *complete* >>>>>>and *buildable* source was ever released. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The VMS source listings did ship with the binaries and later only >>>>> cost a couple $K. But those of us who've had access to it take our >>>>> knowledge seriously and avoid contributing to FreeVMS so that it >>>>> won't be subject to IP lawsuits. >>>>> >>>> >>>>Yeah! I think I have microfiche source listings for VMS V4.x somewhere. >>>>They can be a big help if you are trying to interpret a crash dump of >>>>the version you have AND you are familiar with VMS Internals. But, VMS >>>>doesn't crash all that often, and the crash dump weenies in Colorado are >>>>a hell of lot better at it than I am. (I saw, at most, two crash dumps >>>>per year and the dump weenies do three or four per day!) >>> >>> >>>WEENIES! I happen to be a _crash_dump_weenie_ and I know several of the >>>"crash dump weenies in Colorado" too. I sat in Rob Eulenstein's class: >>>OpenVMS crash dump analysis _for_crash_dump_weenies_ given by a _crash_- >>>_dump_weenie_ (Rob Eulenstein) _from_Colorado_. I've also been in crash >>>dump classes headed up by another _crash_dump_weenie_, Ruth Goldenberg, >>>back in 1992 for Alpha. Good company in this "pack of weenies". >>> >> >>Ruth "wrote the book". I'm fortunate enough to have a copy of her text >>on crash dump analysis "VAX/VMS Troubleshooting" EY-5315E-P0-0001. The >>lady knows her stuff and writes well too! I attended a class at a DECUS >> Symposium as well. I never saw enough dumps to get the kind of >>practice it takes to be able to read one like a comic book! One or two >>per year just does not generate the incentive or the experience it takes >>to get really good at it. > > > I never had a chance (or a reason) to deal with a VMS Dump but back in my > IBM COBOL/Fortran days I was quite good at interpreting IBM Dumps. A dump > and a listing and I could point you right to the line of source code that > caused it. > > bill > > Ah yes! I have fond memories of Princeton's IBM/360 Model 91 with its 16 Megabytes of water cooled core memory! The 0C0 "mystery ABEND" and all that stuff. The 90 ns register to register add time. It was a Super-Computer in its day. The 1403N1 printers with cables almost as thick as your forearm! The nostalgia!!!! Today, I can put more computing power and storage in my shirt pocket than they had in a data center the size of a football field (almost). Thank God for WATFOR and then WATFIV; they would usually point you at exactly the place(s) where you had done something really stupid. I learned a lot there. I got occasional dumps and learned to extract useful information from them but WATFOR/WATFIV were far better debugging tools. I think maybe the most valuable thing I learned was the kind of errors to look for. Eighty percent of the problems could be blamed on either subscript range violations or failure to initialize or reinitialize variables. WATFOR/WATFIV caught both the subscript range violations and the failure to initialize. If you failed to reinitialize, you were on your own but that was not nearly so common an error. Some of the programs were a real nightmare! Remember COMMON? These things typically had several named COMMON blocks with each subroutine accessing one or two variables in each named COMMON! Naturally the subroutines could not be used in any other program without taking the COMMON environment along with them. I de-kludged a number of programs by removing the "COMMON coupling" between modules. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 00:43:44 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <4%alj.4$oZ1.3@newsfe09.lga> In article <47951a54$0$15754$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: > > >Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >> Really? What percent of the kernel has been re-written? My guess is >> less than 1%. It's linux. And until you take the time and effort to >> write an entire new kernel that implements the VMS paradigm as opposed >> to the Unix paradigm it will continue to be nothing bu Linux with a >> different user interface. > > >When VMS was moved from VAX to Alpha, there were many claims that "VMS >is VMS" even if the innards were very different, your apps would >recompile and run without much trouble. > >And again, when VMS was moved to that IA64 contraption, the same was >said, even though big portion of the booting process had to be rewritten >, and the image file format changed to follow Intel stanards. VMS is still VMS. Despite the moves to different architectures and to even larger address spaces, the VMS kernel still look and smells like the VMS kernel. Things in the memory subsystem, for example, needed to change to support the mechanics of the processor's page table scheme but it's still very much VMS! -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:59:23 -0000 From: "John Wallace" Subject: Re: automated DECWrite doc to postscript Message-ID: <13pa2cre3lsv850@corp.supernews.com> wrote in message news:3f8f1668-0808-4cbd-a821-695b33c81e76@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... > > Hello > > We have a few hundreds of DECWrite documents (*.doc) that we want to > convert to postscript. Of course, we can open the documents in the > DECWrite editor one-by-one, go to the respective menu and "print" to > postrscript file. It is possible but not desirable. > Could you suggest the ways to automate the process? Is it possible, > for example, to force DECWrite to do what we want from the command > line? Or, may be, there exist other tools that understand *.doc format > which are better suited for the task than DECWrite itself? > > Please, keep in mind that our house has very little VMS knowledge left > so the sloooow end elaborate explanation will be greatly appreciated. > > Best regards, > Michael I am a little bit surprised that no one has already suggested what I am about to, but that may well be because I don't fully know what I'm talking about, and that those who do know the subject know the idea is daft. But what is there to lose, given that the CDA converter apparently does not want to play fair? Do you have Linux or other UNIX-inspired OS in the shop, or can you get it? Are you aware of the X11 extensions XTrap, XTest, and RECORD? Are you aware of the GNU application suite Xnee which reportedly uses these X11 features to record and playback X11 keyboard and mouse actions? I wasn't, till just now, but the concept is not new at all. Would such a concept be relevant here: you record the desired keyboard and mouse actions to invoke DECwrite and do the necessary, on one file, and then use xnee and a bit of scripting in your favourite language to invoke DECwrite automagically as required using the recorded data on however many files need doing. Or some variation on that theme. I'm assuming you or someone else round here is capable of doing a distributed X session with display on the X box and DECwrite running on the VMS box; the detail doesn't belong here now but can be provided if you need it. I get my X client and server confused and haven't looked at what follows in enough detail to know whether it sits on the DECwrite (client) end or the display (server) end, a detail which may be important here. http://www.gnu.org/software/xnee/ and http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/xnee#options seem like good places to look if the concept is of interest. It comes as source, so isn't an immediate "out of the box" answer. I haven't looked at it in any great detail. Meanwhile, if you are lucky enough to have access to a relevant version of DEC/Test Manager or similar tool on site (as already briefly mentioned by Larry Kilgallen), you likely already have this kind of capability, nicely packaged in a "ready to run on VMS" form. If there are other relevant implementations of the same concept, especially ones that are "ready to run" on VMS, it would be good to hear about them. If you're feeling brave and generous and have a C compiler and a workstation, you might even want to see if Xnee builds in a VMS environment. In fact, depending on how it works in terms of client and server, you may *have* to look at that. This may all be a complete red herring, or something you've already looked at and eliminated, or you might prefer to open hundreds of files by hand rather than head down this road which may lead nowhere, in which case please accept my apologies. Other random thoughts: how about creating a one-line DECwrite document on A4/Letter size paper (assuming the ones you want to print are A4/Letter), posting the relevant PostScript, and seeing if it wants to be printed on A3 ? IE is it the documents or your print settings that are forcing A3 on you? Regards John ps if you don't like this one, ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:12:30 -0000 From: "John Wallace" Subject: Re: automated DECWrite doc to postscript Message-ID: <13pa2mbj6erhi52@corp.supernews.com> "John Wallace" wrote in message news:13pa2cre3lsv850@corp.supernews.com... > > wrote in message > news:3f8f1668-0808-4cbd-a821-695b33c81e76@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... > > > > Hello > > > > We have a few hundreds of DECWrite documents (*.doc) that we want to > > convert to postscript. Of course, we can open the documents in the > > DECWrite editor one-by-one, go to the respective menu and "print" to > > postrscript file. It is possible but not desirable. > > Could you suggest the ways to automate the process? Is it possible, > > for example, to force DECWrite to do what we want from the command > > line? Or, may be, there exist other tools that understand *.doc format > > which are better suited for the task than DECWrite itself? > > > > Please, keep in mind that our house has very little VMS knowledge left > > so the sloooow end elaborate explanation will be greatly appreciated. > > > > Best regards, > > Michael > > I am a little bit surprised that no one has already suggested what I am > about to, but that may well be because I don't fully know what I'm talking > about, and that those who do know the subject know the idea is daft. But > what is there to lose, given that the CDA converter apparently does not want > to play fair? > > Do you have Linux or other UNIX-inspired OS in the shop, or can you get it? > > Are you aware of the X11 extensions XTrap, XTest, and RECORD? > > Are you aware of the GNU application suite Xnee which reportedly uses these > X11 features to record and playback X11 keyboard and mouse actions? I > wasn't, till just now, but the concept is not new at all. > > Would such a concept be relevant here: you record the desired keyboard and > mouse actions to invoke DECwrite and do the necessary, on one file, and then > use xnee and a bit of scripting in your favourite language to invoke > DECwrite automagically as required using the recorded data on however many > files need doing. Or some variation on that theme. I'm assuming you or > someone else round here is capable of doing a distributed X session with > display on the X box and DECwrite running on the VMS box; the detail doesn't > belong here now but can be provided if you need it. > > I get my X client and server confused and haven't looked at what follows in > enough detail to know whether it sits on the DECwrite (client) end or the > display (server) end, a detail which may be important here. > > http://www.gnu.org/software/xnee/ and > http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/xnee#options seem like good places to look > if the concept is of interest. It comes as source, so isn't an immediate > "out of the box" answer. I haven't looked at it in any great detail. > > Meanwhile, if you are lucky enough to have access to a relevant version of > DEC/Test Manager or similar tool on site (as already briefly mentioned by > Larry Kilgallen), you likely already have this kind of capability, nicely > packaged in a "ready to run on VMS" form. If there are other relevant > implementations of the same concept, especially ones that are "ready to run" > on VMS, it would be good to hear about them. > > If you're feeling brave and generous and have a C compiler and a > workstation, you might even want to see if Xnee builds in a VMS environment. > In fact, depending on how it works in terms of client and server, you may > *have* to look at that. > > This may all be a complete red herring, or something you've already looked > at and eliminated, or you might prefer to open hundreds of files by hand > rather than head down this road which may lead nowhere, in which case please > accept my apologies. > > Other random thoughts: how about creating a one-line DECwrite document on > A4/Letter size paper (assuming the ones you want to print are A4/Letter), > posting the relevant PostScript, and seeing if it wants to be printed on A3 > ? IE is it the documents or your print settings that are forcing A3 on you? > > Regards > John > > ps > if you don't like this one, > > the "ps" should have said something along the lines of "if you don't like this Xnee idea, have you looked at Ghostscript and the like, fed from the output of the CDA converter?" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:20:02 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: automated DECWrite doc to postscript Message-ID: <47951af5$0$15754$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> already5chosen@yahoo.com wrote: > Thanks. Tried that. > The only files touched were cda$convert executives, input file, output > file and font files. I didn't see anything resembling style files. If it didn't touch your options files, then it would explain why the paper size option didn't kick in. Do you have any CDA* logical names defined ? BTW, if all you are interested in is the text, you can simply TYPE/output=myfile.txt the decwrite documents. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 18:09:53 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: automated DECWrite doc to postscript Message-ID: <4795273b$0$22039$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > OK. I've created a file called TEST.TXT and in it I typed: In fairness, TEST.TXT does not contain any formatting directives, so the output depends entirely on the whim of the postscript output backend. I created a bona fide decwrite document of "Legal" size on my VAX. And I can confirm that the PS PAPER_SIZE option in the postscript write optiosn file is overriden by the page size inside the DDIF document. HOWEVER... PS_OUTPUT LAYOUT OFF in the options file will cause the postscript backend to honour the PS PAPER_SIZE directive. However, this will "dumb down" the DECwrite document's formatting quite a bit. (for instance, it appears to remove page headers. example: http://www.vaxination.ca/test1.ps -> converted with LAYOUT ON http://www.vaxination.ca/test2.ps -> converted with LAYOUF OFF One possibility which I have not yet investigated would be to use the ALLIN1 document formatter used to print documents. This would imply the decwrite being converted to WPSPLUS and then to postcript, and during the last phase, page layout information can be provided. Consider that when changing from legal (14") to letter (11"), not all the text/graphics would fit inside the new page, and this would require major reformatting. So changing page size like that is probably disabled. To the original poster: you might wish to do an inventory of the features used in your decwrite documents and how much you expect to conserve when converted. Another option to consider might be the RTF output converter. You could then import the documents onto modern platform word processors and preserve some of the formatting. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:26:33 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: encrypt / decrypt - Anything available for Tru64 ? Message-ID: <4794f1e3$0$90263$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> R.A.Omond wrote: > I find myself needing a generic file encrypt/decrypt utility for > some Tru64 sites that I support. What do others use for this sort > of requirement ? > > Ideally, it should contain similar functionality that the VMS > Encrypt and Decrypt commands provide: > > $ help encrypt > > ENCRYPT > > There are four ENCRYPT commands: > ENCRYPT Encrypts files. Before you enter > this command, create a key with the > ENCRYPT /CREATE_KEY command. > ENCRYPT /AUTHENTICATE Checks for changes to either plain > text or cipher text files (see > /AUTHENTICATE). > ENCRYPT /CREATE_KEY Defines a key to be used during > encryption (see /CREATE_KEY). > ENCRYPT /REMOVE_KEY Deletes a key definition from a key > storage table (see /REMOVE_KEY). > > Format for the ENCRYPT Command > > ENCRYPT input-file key-name [qualifiers] > > /DATA_ALGORITHM > > { DESCBC (default) } > /DATA_ALGORITHM= { AESmmmkkk } > { } > > Where mmm is the mode CBC, ECB, CFB, or OFB; and kkk is 128, > 192, or 256 bits. Cipher Block Chaining (CBC) and Electronic Code > Book (ECB) are 16-byte block modes, meaning blocks are padded to > 16 bytes if necessary during encryption. The padding is removed > during decruption. Cipher Feedback (CFB) and Output Feedback > (OFB) are 8-bit character stream mode emulation, useful in data > communications and where no padding is required. > > Note that /DATA_ALGORITM=AES is a shortcut for specifying AESCBC128. > > The data algorithm is used with the randomly generated key to > perform encryption of the file's data. When specifying an AES > algorithm, specify both /KEY and /DATA=AESmmmkkk qualifiers and > use an AES created key. > > Alternatively, has anyone built a generic encrypt/decrypt utility > using the routines supplied in CDSA (Common Data Security Architecture), > which is part of the Tru64 Security Subsystem (it's part of the base > operating system in VMS) ? The algorithms mentioned are very "standard" ones. I would spend 2 minutes searching for a utility already on the system and if unsuccessful then start coding. A Java version >= 1.4 or a C compiler with a cryptographic library should be relative easy. If you tell me what you have, then I would be happy to slam some code together. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:42:51 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: <4794F5BB.80707@comcast.net> sol gongola wrote: > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > >> In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk >> writes: >> >>> >>> In article >>> <357aec0b-4cb3-4f73-922f-5364457ef352@v17g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, >>> yyyc186 writes: >>> >>>> On Jan 19, 10:10 pm, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: >>>> >>>>> yyyc186 wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I'm not really interested in looking at anything MS has to say. What >>>>>> they produce is neither technology nor business quality software. >>>>>> Like the rest of the world, I'm moving to Ubuntu. >>>>> >>>>> Ubuntu is competing for the same customers as Windows. >>>>> >>>>> Have you considered something more "different": Centos, >>>>> Debian, Gentoo or maybe FreeBSD ? >>>>> >>>>> Arne >>>> >>>> I've looked at many. Ubuntu is the next wave. It has a sever edition >>> >> >> What is a sever edition? Once you buy and install it, it makes you want >> to slash your wrists out of sheer frustration? Sounds to me just like a >> Micro$oft product a la Weendoze. :) >> > > Linux desktops and servers were customized (optimized?) for the purpose > but can be used either way and the missing applications can be added. > > When MS has server and desktop editions, they intend server and desktop > use, licensed accordingly. One isn't supposed to be upgradeable to the > other. With windows NT, microsoft even claimied they were two completely > different systems until someone showed that the main difference, besides > the installed applications, were only in the registry settings. ApplicationS??? I was never a Windows Server person but I got the impression that the rule was one application per server! At the very least, one application at a time!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 15:05:06 -0500 From: sol gongola Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: <4794fb11$0$6334$607ed4bc@cv.net> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > sol gongola wrote: >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> >>> In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk >>> writes: >>> >>>> >>>> In article >>>> <357aec0b-4cb3-4f73-922f-5364457ef352@v17g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, >>>> yyyc186 writes: >>>> >>>>> On Jan 19, 10:10 pm, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> yyyc186 wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm not really interested in looking at anything MS has to say. >>>>>>> What >>>>>>> they produce is neither technology nor business quality software. >>>>>>> Like the rest of the world, I'm moving to Ubuntu. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ubuntu is competing for the same customers as Windows. >>>>>> >>>>>> Have you considered something more "different": Centos, >>>>>> Debian, Gentoo or maybe FreeBSD ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Arne >>>>> >>>>> I've looked at many. Ubuntu is the next wave. It has a sever edition >>>> >>> >>> What is a sever edition? Once you buy and install it, it makes you want >>> to slash your wrists out of sheer frustration? Sounds to me just like a >>> Micro$oft product a la Weendoze. :) >>> >> >> Linux desktops and servers were customized (optimized?) for the purpose >> but can be used either way and the missing applications can be added. >> >> When MS has server and desktop editions, they intend server and desktop >> use, licensed accordingly. One isn't supposed to be upgradeable to the >> other. With windows NT, microsoft even claimied they were two completely >> different systems until someone showed that the main difference, besides >> the installed applications, were only in the registry settings. > > ApplicationS??? I was never a Windows Server person but I got the > impression that the rule was one application per server! At the very > least, one application at a time!! > > Application was a bad word choice. I meant the different pieces of software (or services) that are present in windows server that are not present in windows desktop. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:17:15 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: In article <4794e19c$0$6363$607ed4bc@cv.net>, sol gongola writes: > > >VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: >>> >>> In article <357aec0b-4cb3-4f73-922f-5364457ef352@v17g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, yyyc186 writes: >>>> On Jan 19, 10:10 pm, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: >>>>> yyyc186 wrote: >>>>>> I'm not really interested in looking at anything MS has to say. What >>>>>> they produce is neither technology nor business quality software. >>>>>> Like the rest of the world, I'm moving to Ubuntu. >>>>> Ubuntu is competing for the same customers as Windows. >>>>> >>>>> Have you considered something more "different": Centos, >>>>> Debian, Gentoo or maybe FreeBSD ? >>>>> >>>>> Arne >>>> I've looked at many. Ubuntu is the next wave. It has a sever edition >> >> What is a sever edition? Once you buy and install it, it makes you want >> to slash your wrists out of sheer frustration? Sounds to me just like a >> Micro$oft product a la Weendoze. :) >> > >Linux desktops and servers were customized (optimized?) for the purpose >but can be used either way and the missing applications can be added. > >When MS has server and desktop editions, they intend server and desktop >use, licensed accordingly. One isn't supposed to be upgradeable to the >other. With windows NT, microsoft even claimied they were two completely >different systems until someone showed that the main difference, besides >the installed applications, were only in the registry settings. Doh! You missed the misspelling mirth. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:32:45 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: <47951d87$0$90275$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> yyyc186 wrote: > On Jan 20, 4:55 pm, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> It has a server edition, but it is not very widely used. > > It is gaining ground and attention since a lot of companies are > looking at moving their desktops to Ubuntu with OpenOffice. Ubuntu is very widely used as a desktop OS. I do not consider that good argument for using it as server OS - on the contrary. > We shall agree to disagree. I have been doing work for Fortunate 50 > and Fortunate 10 clients and have YET to encounter a Red Hat box at > _any_ of their locations or data centers. I have seen Ubuntu on DELL > servers and even HP blades. Have you looked at http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/alliances/en/linux?c=us&cs=555&l=en&s=biz ? > Now that Microsoft Windows and HP-UX have trained upper management to > accept outages and system crashes as a way of life, most companies (at > least the ones I'm encountering) are looking to replace both back end > servers and desktops with a single distro to reduce support issues and > overhead. But they will not reduce cost. Desktop requirements and server requirements are too different. Arne ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jan 2008 22:36:24 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: <5vkl38F1lpt8bU4@mid.individual.net> In article <4794F5BB.80707@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > sol gongola wrote: >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> >>> In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk >>> writes: >>> >>>> >>>> In article >>>> <357aec0b-4cb3-4f73-922f-5364457ef352@v17g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, >>>> yyyc186 writes: >>>> >>>>> On Jan 19, 10:10 pm, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> yyyc186 wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm not really interested in looking at anything MS has to say. What >>>>>>> they produce is neither technology nor business quality software. >>>>>>> Like the rest of the world, I'm moving to Ubuntu. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ubuntu is competing for the same customers as Windows. >>>>>> >>>>>> Have you considered something more "different": Centos, >>>>>> Debian, Gentoo or maybe FreeBSD ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Arne >>>>> >>>>> I've looked at many. Ubuntu is the next wave. It has a sever edition >>>> >>> >>> What is a sever edition? Once you buy and install it, it makes you want >>> to slash your wrists out of sheer frustration? Sounds to me just like a >>> Micro$oft product a la Weendoze. :) >>> >> >> Linux desktops and servers were customized (optimized?) for the purpose >> but can be used either way and the missing applications can be added. >> >> When MS has server and desktop editions, they intend server and desktop >> use, licensed accordingly. One isn't supposed to be upgradeable to the >> other. With windows NT, microsoft even claimied they were two completely >> different systems until someone showed that the main difference, besides >> the installed applications, were only in the registry settings. > > ApplicationS??? I was never a Windows Server person but I got the > impression that the rule was one application per server! At the very > least, one application at a time!! Who told you that rule? Kerry? You were misinformed. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jan 2008 22:37:37 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: <5vkl5hF1lpt8bU5@mid.individual.net> In article <4794fb11$0$6334$607ed4bc@cv.net>, sol gongola writes: > Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >> sol gongola wrote: >>> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >>> >>>> In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk >>>> writes: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> In article >>>>> <357aec0b-4cb3-4f73-922f-5364457ef352@v17g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, >>>>> yyyc186 writes: >>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 19, 10:10 pm, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> yyyc186 wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm not really interested in looking at anything MS has to say. >>>>>>>> What >>>>>>>> they produce is neither technology nor business quality software. >>>>>>>> Like the rest of the world, I'm moving to Ubuntu. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ubuntu is competing for the same customers as Windows. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Have you considered something more "different": Centos, >>>>>>> Debian, Gentoo or maybe FreeBSD ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Arne >>>>>> >>>>>> I've looked at many. Ubuntu is the next wave. It has a sever edition >>>>> >>>> >>>> What is a sever edition? Once you buy and install it, it makes you want >>>> to slash your wrists out of sheer frustration? Sounds to me just like a >>>> Micro$oft product a la Weendoze. :) >>>> >>> >>> Linux desktops and servers were customized (optimized?) for the purpose >>> but can be used either way and the missing applications can be added. >>> >>> When MS has server and desktop editions, they intend server and desktop >>> use, licensed accordingly. One isn't supposed to be upgradeable to the >>> other. With windows NT, microsoft even claimied they were two completely >>> different systems until someone showed that the main difference, besides >>> the installed applications, were only in the registry settings. >> >> ApplicationS??? I was never a Windows Server person but I got the >> impression that the rule was one application per server! At the very >> least, one application at a time!! >> >> > Application was a bad word choice. I meant the different pieces of > software (or services) that are present in windows server that are > not present in windows desktop. You were still misinformed. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:46:05 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: <479520a7$0$90263$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > ApplicationS??? I was never a Windows Server person but I got the > impression that the rule was one application per server! At the very > least, one application at a time!! That is the usual story at least. And it possible is less geared towards multiple usages than OS's that grew up with terminal users running dozens of different apps. But it can do it. And the main reason that it is not seen so often is the change in the way computers are used today. The majority of apps are running on the desktops. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:48:19 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: <47953D53.9060509@comcast.net> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article <4794F5BB.80707@comcast.net>, > "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > >>sol gongola wrote: >> >>>VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >>> >>> >>>>In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk >>>>writes: >>>> >>>> >>>>>In article >>>>><357aec0b-4cb3-4f73-922f-5364457ef352@v17g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, >>>>>yyyc186 writes: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>On Jan 19, 10:10 pm, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>yyyc186 wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I'm not really interested in looking at anything MS has to say. What >>>>>>>>they produce is neither technology nor business quality software. >>>>>>>>Like the rest of the world, I'm moving to Ubuntu. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Ubuntu is competing for the same customers as Windows. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Have you considered something more "different": Centos, >>>>>>>Debian, Gentoo or maybe FreeBSD ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Arne >>>>>> >>>>>>I've looked at many. Ubuntu is the next wave. It has a sever edition >>>>> >>>>What is a sever edition? Once you buy and install it, it makes you want >>>>to slash your wrists out of sheer frustration? Sounds to me just like a >>>>Micro$oft product a la Weendoze. :) >>>> >>> >>>Linux desktops and servers were customized (optimized?) for the purpose >>>but can be used either way and the missing applications can be added. >>> >>>When MS has server and desktop editions, they intend server and desktop >>>use, licensed accordingly. One isn't supposed to be upgradeable to the >>>other. With windows NT, microsoft even claimied they were two completely >>>different systems until someone showed that the main difference, besides >>>the installed applications, were only in the registry settings. >> >>ApplicationS??? I was never a Windows Server person but I got the >>impression that the rule was one application per server! At the very >>least, one application at a time!! > > > Who told you that rule? Kerry? You were misinformed. > > bill > That's what I saw in the companies I worked for that used Windows servers. (Some used Novell instead). And this was all from four to fourteen years ago( back to Windows 3.1)! I was not, however, a Windows support person; the closest I came to that was taking over the Anti-malware effort at my last employer. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:32:05 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Marketing of operating sytems Message-ID: <47951D65.66AD72AE@spam.comcast.net> Sue wrote: > > On Jan 15, 3:26 am, JF Mezei wrote: > > Apple is holding a little shingding in San Francisco this week. Steve > > Job's keynote address should be available for viewing later this > > afternoon athttp://www.apple.com. He is bound to make a great sales > > pitch for our favourite operating system (OS-X :-) > > > > Wasn't there a time when DECUS events were larger than Macworld ? > > > > Imagine if VMS had been allowed to be marketed, andSuewould have made > > similar keynote adresses in front of thousands with worldwide media > > reporting on it ? > > I am flattered JF, to tell the truth I am in awe of Steve Jobs. We've seen you in front of crowds, Sue. You've got your own special gift, and more heart than 10 Steve Jobs's put together. ...better lookin', too! ;-) David J Dachtera DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 18:19:31 -0800 (PST) From: Sue Subject: Re: Marketing of operating sytems Message-ID: On Jan 21, 5:32=A0pm, David J Dachtera wrote: > Suewrote: > > > On Jan 15, 3:26 am, JF Mezei wrote: > > > Apple is holding a little shingding in San Francisco this week. Steve > > > Job's keynote address should be available for viewing later this > > > afternoon athttp://www.apple.com. He is bound to make a great sales > > > pitch for our favourite operating system (OS-X :-) > > > > Wasn't there a time when DECUS events were larger than Macworld ? > > > > Imagine if VMS had been allowed to be marketed, andSuewould have made > > > similar keynote adresses in front of thousands =A0with worldwide media= > > > reporting on it ? > > > I am flattered JF, to tell the truth I am in awe of Steve Jobs. > > We've seen you in front of crowds,Sue. You've got your own special > gift, and more heart than 10 Steve Jobs's put together. > > ...better lookin', too! ;-) > > David J Dachtera > DJE Systems ok now I am Way flattered. By the way folks I have a plaque that was given to me from the original ground breaking of ZKO. I think it will make a nice Digital (pun intended) picture. Sue ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:39:53 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: our toll free number is down Message-ID: <47951F39.C26FDA45@spam.comcast.net> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > In article <478ECA26.52F69402@spam.comcast.net>, > David J Dachtera writes: > > VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > >> > >> In article <37wjj.75603$K27.10062@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, David Turner writes: > >> > > >> > > >> >As we do a lot of business with people on this newsgroup we thought it > >> >prudent to note that ATT, in their infinite wisdom have screwed up our > >> >toll free number. They "don't know" (!!!) when they will have it fixed. > >> >Our regular number (912 786 8502) is working as well as email and web > >> > >> Be thankful you don't have Verizon! > > > > In the chi.internet newsgroup, it was referred to as "Verizoff" in > > testimony to the perceived uptime of the services. I don't lurk there > > anymore, though. > > > > Interesting. I used to have cable modem service for my INTERNET. Verto, > then Adelphia and most recently it became Comcast. I dumped them in the > Adelphia perid after calling them every day for a week because my service > was out only to have them tell me they were not aware of any problems and > they had no reports from customers about any outages. I've had Comcast cable internet since fall of 2003 when we moved in with my Mom while the house* was being built. When we moved in here, at first it was a bit flaky. This area was still developing and Comcast was replacing their existing infrastructure to accomdate the increased service demands and allow for future services. It's been very reliable of late and I consistently get 8Mbits down. David J Dachtera DJE Systems *: See http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/personal/60544/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:53:08 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Send mail without a file Message-ID: <47952254.346E9197@spam.comcast.net> glen herrmannsfeldt wrote: > > vancouvercancun@yahoo.ca wrote: > > > Is it possible to send a VMS email without specifying a file to send? > > Maybe, but it might create a file anyway. The way SMTP is implemented for outbound MAIL, it results in a "batch" (server queue) job, which does actually require a file. The OP was likely thinking along the lines of the responses he got which mention the PIPE verb or image data in-line. David J Dachtera DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 18:57:05 -0800 (PST) From: AEF Subject: Re: Send mail without a file Message-ID: <160d4f82-3645-45e6-920f-73a9cb9b5cbe@c23g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> On Jan 17, 4:23 pm, vancouvercan...@yahoo.ca wrote: > Is it possible to send a VMS email without specifying a file to send? Yes. Type MAIL and press Enter and follow the prompts. > Normal command is: > $ mail somefile.txt someuser /sub=Test > where somefile.txt is sent as the body. > > I want to send this > $ mail "Some text that I like!" someuser /sub=Test No. > > TIA > Van YW. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:23:50 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: The global village, the operating system version Message-ID: <4795541b$0$15779$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Marshall McCluhen had discussed the concept of the global village. A lot of it is happening but with a twist: english language is the lowest common denominator, and only cultural contributiosn in english (with a few exceptions) are adopted and globally distributed around the world. For instance, the french songs from Céline Dion never made it out of Québec, but her english songs (unfortunatly) did. Similarly, the norvegian group A-Ha didn't succeed by signing in norwegian, their global success was due to english songs. But once a culture succeeds in injecting some of its own into the global village, it becomes healthier because it becomes mainstream inside that culture and also known outside of that local culture. Now back to operating systems. It seems to me that there is starting to be a similar phenomenon forming with regards to OS platforms. There is a global culture appearing where certain applications have formed a global culture. Adobe PDF, MySQL, Perl, Phython, Apache, Thunderbird, etc etc. Those applications are written with a certain philosophy that makes it easier to port to mainstream operating systems. If you're not a target for those "global" applications, your OS just won't make it. If it requires significant engineering to port to another OS, that OS won't be able to keep up withnew versions, improvements and patches unless its owner puts in the significant resources needed to keep up. And the global culture evolves quickly with new "fads" coming up (like Ruby and whatever other new fads exist out there). So in the end, only operating systems that naturally support the building tools and middleware to EASILY build all the new apps/fads will survive. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:57:39 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: This NG seems unusually quiet... Message-ID: <47952363.A3A9C594@spam.comcast.net> Bob Koehler wrote: > > In article <9095cd13-d33e-4a63-8291-a3b71e045115@l32g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, Neil Rieck writes: > > Compared to this time last year, this NG seems unusually quiet. Is > > something going on the the OpenVMS world that I don't know about? Have > > all the OpenVMS developers already jumped to other platforms? Many > > previous contributors seem missing in action. > > We've all added enough entries to our killfiles to improve the > signal-to-noise ratio. The signal level seems to be about the same. Eh, ... one way or another, this group is a fair bit "quieter" than it has been. I expect there's many possibilities. Among them: - Lay-offs and other attrition in the "membership" - Those who remain are now more resigned to VMS's fate David J Dachtera DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:38:59 -0500 From: "David Turner, Island Computers" Subject: Toll Free Number back up Message-ID: <13pa47iom3s4u5c@news.supernews.com> FYI - Our toll free number is back up DT -- David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 1207 East Highway 80 Suite D Tybee GA 31328 Toll Free: 877-6364332 x201 Intl: 912 786 8502 x201 Fax: 912 786 8505 E: dturner@islandco.com F: 912 201 0402 W: http://www.islandco.com The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:54:26 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: VMS to Nexsan storage? Message-ID: <479522A2.AE72C1E3@spam.comcast.net> ewilts@ewilts.org wrote: > > Has anybody connected Nexsan fibre storage to a VMS system? Does it > work? Well? > > We're currently using EVA-based storage but since I have a new > SATABeast waiting to be installed, I was hoping I could throw some > archives out on the beast. Thoughts? The SATABeast has dual fibre > connections that run in an active/failover configuration (similar to > the original EVAs). Looks like you're guinea pig, VMS-wise. David J Dachtera DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:26:15 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Why Writers Buy Asbestos Undies Message-ID: <47951c01$0$90267$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Main, Kerry wrote: > Well, from what I have seen, while many shops are talking about SOA and > some are actually doing small pilots or have new programs with limited > risks involved, very few shops have actually implemented SOA in a very > big way. Typically the ones who have doe this are large IT shops with > very centralized IT groups that have the power to mandate what happens. The more complex IT configs the bigger potential benefits from SOA, so it should not be a surprise that it is most used in bigger companies. Besides the price tag of getting a bunch of consultants to help with implementing it would get most small companies running awat screaming. :-) > If one wants to understand why SOA has not taken off, all they have to > do is research why DCE never took off. Same strategy, different era. SOA has taken off. And SOA does not share very much with DCE. SOA is a concept that can be implemented multiple ways using multiple technologies. DCE is a specific set of architectures and protocols. > The concept of breaking up programs into distributed services is great > in theory, but has a basic flaw in that corporations do not work that > way from a cultural perspective. > > SOA implementation is a huge cultural and different way of developing > applications, different tools and different skill sets than what most > companies have today. And all of this is happening at a time when IT > departments are being asked to slash their IT budgets. > > In addition, Customers are implementing massive consolidation programs, > so distributed architectures and strategies run counter to the primary > consolidation strategy. Corporate culture is indeed on of the biggest obstacles for implementing SOA successfull. Many SOA projects has failed for that reason. Consolidation and SOA fits fine together. SOA is mostly independent of the physical deployment model (consolidation of boxes) and consolidation of apps can never remove the need for SOA. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 15:47:26 -0500 From: "Carl Friedberg" Subject: windows server (was F$UNIQUE library function) Message-ID: <890539d90801211247k4c367e6bo5e32eebef1a949bb@mail.gmail.com> In my experience, windows 3rd party drivers have been a frequent cause of problems requiring reboot. For this reason, any windows "application" tied to a third party driver (and related hardware) needs to run on a separate hardware platform, so that a reboot to fix a hardware or driver issue did not impact other critical functions (e.g., exchange, sql, httpd, etc) Buggy software is not limited to Windows, of course, but there is an attitude (stemming from DOS ancestry) of just good enough, and easy access to the restart button... On Jan 21, 2008 3:05 PM, sol gongola wrote: > > Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > Application was a bad word choice. I meant the different pieces of > software (or services) that are present in windows server that are > not present in windows desktop. > etc ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.043 ************************