INFO-VAX Sat, 12 Jan 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 24 Contents: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Anyway to "smarten up" the console terminal? Re: Anyway to "smarten up" the console terminal? Re: Anyway to "smarten up" the console terminal? Re: Anyway to "smarten up" the console terminal? Re: Cards you may want Re: Cards you may want default e-mail editor Re: default e-mail editor Re: IA64 VMS installation DVD creation. Re: Island Computers is moving Re: OpenVMS awk and gawk password-less SSH authentication Re: password-less SSH authentication Re: Security level of SET PASS /GENERATE ? Re: USB-stick ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:22:33 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: In article , pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) writes: > > >In article , wrote: >>In article <4783B4F2.3070807@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" >> writes: >>>{...snip...} >>> >>>It's been done already. It was called PCVMS. It gave you a DCL shell >>>and, IIRC, some VMS-like APIs. A toy, really. This was twelve or >>>fifteen years ago. . . . >> >>Try 20! Wendin Associates in Wash. state. > >It was kind of slick. >I had a copy in my Fort Monmouth days... I still have the docs but >can't find the disks. > >> >>The biggest issue, IMO, for PC-VMS at that time was the lack of a more >>robust and sophisticated processor to run on. That was the era of the >>80286 and, toward the end of the 80s, the 80386. I'd had a copy of it >>back when I worked at Lakehurst NAEC. It was, like you've said, a toy >>but fun to play with. CP/M ran on the box when there was something to >>do beside see what would fail in PC-VMS DCL when you typed in a certain >>command. > > >Lakehurst, eh. I remember a figher jock tailgaiting me when I was down >there fixing some PDP one afternoon. Shades of Top Gun. I thought I >saw him laughing in the rear view mirror. > >In my Pre-DEC days I did newspapers for Leisure Village West and a >couple of the other Leisure Village's. I always wanted to see the >heavy lifting blimp-helocopter mix they were building there before the >crash. > >You sound like a local... I'm pretty sure we've discussed this before. I spent a number of years at Lakehurst at the ATE software center. Left there to go to GE Astro- Space for a stint. Left there and spent five years in the Myers Center (aka, the hexagon) at Ft. Monmouth. I did my undergraduate and graduate studies at Monmouth University (was College at that time). I've lived in Long Branch, West LB, Asbury Park and now I'm in Jackson. Drop me a line. We should get together for a meetup. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 02:12:56 -0600 From: Slor Subject: Anyway to "smarten up" the console terminal? Message-ID: This may be a really silly question, but here goes anyway... I have OpenVMS 8.3 running on an old DEC 3000 with only 64MB of memory. Following suggestions from this group based on this system's specs, I chose not to install any of the windowing components, so my console is the basic black text screen. A bit of web searching tells me that this console is pretty much as dumb as it gets, so there's really no valid terminal type to be used unless some helper like DECWindows is loaded and doing terminal emulation in its windows. My question - is there any other way to get the physical console to behave in a more full-featured manner for screen- oriented text apps, command line editing support, etc.? Obviously, I can emulate any sort of console I want using SSH/telnet or even a serial console connection, but I'm interested in whether or not there is any solution for the local console. thanks! -- James http://www.e-host-direct.com Reliable web hosting from $12/year. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 02:34:06 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Anyway to "smarten up" the console terminal? Message-ID: <08011202340576_206002CA@antinode.org> From: Slor > This may be a really silly question, but here goes anyway... I've seen worse. > I have OpenVMS 8.3 running on an old DEC 3000 with only 64MB of memory. > Following suggestions from this group based on this system's specs, I chose > not to install any of the windowing components, so my console is the basic > black text screen. A bit of web searching tells me that this console is > pretty much as dumb as it gets, so there's really no valid terminal type to > be used unless some helper like DECWindows is loaded and doing terminal > emulation in its windows. My question - is there any other way to get the > physical console to behave in a more full-featured manner for screen- > oriented text apps, command line editing support, etc.? You might try SET TERMINAL /DEVICE_TYPE = VT52 (or, for a short stroll down memory lane, SET TERMINAL /VT52). I seem to recall hearing someone say that EDIT /EDT did better than EDIT /TPU with a VT52, but I know nothing. Well, I do know that more memory would be a good thing. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 02:42:30 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: Anyway to "smarten up" the console terminal? Message-ID: <67e1f87e-c0ec-4bc7-b99b-5c112b089b0e@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> On Jan 12, 3:12 am, Slor wrote: > This may be a really silly question, but here goes anyway... > > I have OpenVMS 8.3 running on an old DEC 3000 with only 64MB of memory. > Following suggestions from this group based on this system's specs, I chose > not to install any of the windowing components, so my console is the basic > black text screen. A bit of web searching tells me that this console is > pretty much as dumb as it gets, so there's really no valid terminal type to > be used unless some helper like DECWindows is loaded and doing terminal > emulation in its windows. My question - is there any other way to get the > physical console to behave in a more full-featured manner for screen- > oriented text apps, command line editing support, etc.? > > Obviously, I can emulate any sort of console I want using SSH/telnet or > even a serial console connection, but I'm interested in whether or not > there is any solution for the local console. > > thanks! > > -- > James > http://www.e-host-direct.com > Reliable web hosting from $12/year. James, I would just go ahead and load DECwindows. I often use a similar similar system, and the truth be told, while DECwindows does consume more space than the desktop windowing systems, the system is far more reasonable in performance when compared with many personal desktop systems. If you are thinking of tools like Java, which tend to be resource intense (on all platforms), then you will need a major increment in memory capacity, and possibly processor speed (more along the order of 640M rather than 64Mbyte). DECWindows will also open up the possibility of using remote X desktops, which are slightly more functional than simple telnet sessions, particularly with DECwindows-aware tools like the DEBUGGER. - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:10:15 +0100 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: Anyway to "smarten up" the console terminal? Message-ID: In article <08011202340576_206002CA@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) wrote: > You might try SET TERMINAL /DEVICE_TYPE = VT52 (or, for a short > stroll down memory lane, SET TERMINAL /VT52). I seem to recall hearing > someone say that EDIT /EDT did better than EDIT /TPU with a VT52, but I > know nothing. EDIT/TPU will refuse to work with a VT52: $ set term/vt52 $ edit/tpu %TPU-E-NONANSICRT, SYS$INPUT must be supported CRT $ -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:23:42 -0800 (PST) From: "tomarsin2015@comcast.net" Subject: Re: Cards you may want Message-ID: On Jan 11, 5:07=A0pm, Tad Winters wrote: > I have some items in my possession that I don't need (and just take up > space.) =A0I'd like them to avoid the landfill at this time. =A0If you tak= e > care of the shipping, I'm happy to you the items you want. =A0I can also > email you a picture of any item, if that helps, but I have no hardware in > which to test them. =A0(Well, I do have a few MicroVAX 3100 boxes, but I'm= > sure they won't be of use testing most of these items.) > Here's the list: > > . CQD-220/M (Qbus SCSI Disk controller, supported by MSCP?) > . M7546 (Qbus TK50 tape controller) > . 54-17131 (SLU converter board for VAXstation 2000) > . 54-17230 (DSH32-AA/DST32 Sync driver/receiver) [2 of these] > . 54-19830-01 (8MB memory option for MicroVAX 3100) > . 54-16802 (2/4MB memory option, fully populated) > . LPV11 clone as previously identified by Bill Gunshannon and pictured at > the following URL:http://mysite.verizon.net/stafford.winters2/SIS-circuit-= board.html > . Unidentified board labeled as 6050-7009 rev. B that may be another SCSI > controller, since the back side seems to have 6050-5001 rev. B. =A0It has = a > CS-1 next to a logo and a couple prominent Cypress chips. > > Send me email if you'd like a picture of any of these items. =A0To send me= > email, remove the obvious, leaving only a single period between the first > and last name. Hello Tried e-mailing you but I keep getting this error: The following recipient(s) could not be reached: 'stadddord.winters@verison.net' on 1/12/2008 10:17 AM 452 4.1.1 ... temporary failure If no one has claimed the CQD-220 and the 6050-7009 I will take them. I am willing to throw in some cash for your time and effort. tks phillip ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 12:55:28 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Cards you may want Message-ID: <4788FF10.8020709@comcast.net> tomarsin2015@comcast.net wrote: > On Jan 11, 5:07 pm, Tad Winters > wrote: > >>I have some items in my possession that I don't need (and just take up >>space.) I'd like them to avoid the landfill at this time. If you take >>care of the shipping, I'm happy to you the items you want. I can also >>email you a picture of any item, if that helps, but I have no hardware in >>which to test them. (Well, I do have a few MicroVAX 3100 boxes, but I'm >>sure they won't be of use testing most of these items.) >>Here's the list: >> >>. CQD-220/M (Qbus SCSI Disk controller, supported by MSCP?) >>. M7546 (Qbus TK50 tape controller) >>. 54-17131 (SLU converter board for VAXstation 2000) >>. 54-17230 (DSH32-AA/DST32 Sync driver/receiver) [2 of these] >>. 54-19830-01 (8MB memory option for MicroVAX 3100) >>. 54-16802 (2/4MB memory option, fully populated) >>. LPV11 clone as previously identified by Bill Gunshannon and pictured at >>the following URL:http://mysite.verizon.net/stafford.winters2/SIS-circuit-board.html >>. Unidentified board labeled as 6050-7009 rev. B that may be another SCSI >>controller, since the back side seems to have 6050-5001 rev. B. It has a >>CS-1 next to a logo and a couple prominent Cypress chips. >> >>Send me email if you'd like a picture of any of these items. To send me >>email, remove the obvious, leaving only a single period between the first >>and last name. > > > Hello > Tried e-mailing you but I keep getting this error: > The following recipient(s) could not be reached: > > 'stadddord.winters@verison.net' on 1/12/2008 10:17 AM > 452 4.1.1 ... temporary failure > If no one has claimed the CQD-220 and the 6050-7009 I will take them. > I am willing to throw in some cash for your time and effort. > tks > phillip Should the "s" in "verison.net" be a "z". These little subtleties can make all the difference! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 05:45:09 -0800 (PST) From: Crni Gorac Subject: default e-mail editor Message-ID: How to setup vim as default e-mail editor ("set editor=vim" is not working)? Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:40:46 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: default e-mail editor Message-ID: In article , Crni Gorac writes: > > >How to setup vim as default e-mail editor ("set editor=vim" is not >working)? http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/6489/6489pro_047.html#examples $ ! Command procedure to invoke an editor for Mail. $ ! $ ! Inputs: $ ! $ ! P1 = Input file name. $ ! P2 = Output file name. $ ! $ ! If MAIL$EDIT is undefined, Mail will invoke the user's selected $ ! callable editor set by the mail SET EDITOR command. $ ! $ ! If MAIL$EDIT is defined to be a command procedure, Mail will create $ ! a subprocess to edit the mail, but any SET EDITOR command in Mail $ ! will override the definition of MAIL$EDIT for the remainder of that $ ! Mail session. $ ! $ ! Note that this procedure is run in the context of a subprocess. $ ! LOGIN.COM is not executed. However, all process logical names $ ! and DCL global symbols are copied. In particular, note that the $ ! user's individual definition of the symbol EDIT is used if there $ ! is one. Otherwise, the system default editor is used. $ ! $ ! The default directory is the same as the parent process $ ! $ DEFINE /USER SYS$INPUT 'F$TRNLNM("SYS$OUTPUT")' (1) $ IF P1 .EQS. "" THEN GOTO NOINPUT (2) $ EDIT /OUTPUT='P2' 'P1' (3) $ EXIT $NOINPUT: $ EDIT 'P2' (4) $ EXIT You will need to figure out how to pass P1 and P2 to vim. I was going to check this on EISNER for you but it's down (I believe it's being upgraded to V8.3). You need to define the logical MAIL$EDIT to refer to this procedure. When you then invoke MAIL and edit a message, MAIL will use this procedure and vim. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 06:26:12 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: IA64 VMS installation DVD creation. Message-ID: <4788a484$0$16196$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Steven M. Schweda wrote: > If I were to create an LD container of an appropriate size, and > restore (BACKUP /IMAGE) this save set onto the corresponding LD device, > should I be able to use the resulting LD container to make a working > installation DVD, or would the LD device first need to be fiddled using > some exotic SET BOOTBLOCK command (which is, of course, "Valid on I64 > systems only.")? HELP BACKUP/IMAGE help backup/image Beginning in Version 8.2, this qualifier is supported for I64 system disks. The image of an I64 system disk can be saved and restored on either an Alpha or an I64 system. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:04:50 +0100 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: Island Computers is moving Message-ID: In article <890539d90801111411o44bf230dr869e0a0e6c353bdc@mail.gmail.com>, "Carl Friedberg" wrote: > I've written modules in COBOL, BASIC, and FORTRAN > which contain calls to VMS system services. > > BASIC has a nice collection of definition files from STARLET > which make this a piece of cake (in most cases). Unfortunately that is not the case for COBOL. You need to hit the manuals and define the item lists manually. It's a pain in the neck the first time you do that, but thereafter it isn't so bad. > The choice is usually made by the customer, who would > prefer to see these things in a "native" language. Yes. On one memorable occasion I could have written something in macro with a COBOL wrapper, but I could have become trapped at that customer site forever :-( > Whatever floats your boat... Agreed. -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 05:28:18 -0800 (PST) From: Doc Subject: Re: OpenVMS awk and gawk Message-ID: <9ea66f11-24d9-44aa-b792-49678bf45b5d@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> > and awk and gawk make more sense than using vms > commands? No, not at all! What makes sense is for a person to be able to use vi, eve, lse, etc. on any platform on which they are required to work. (In 35 years I've seen little change in the assumption that programming people is preferable to programming computers.) They are learning DCL. I'm learning the unix tools. The latter is primarily a psychological ploy intended to augment the former -- but if something practical comes of it, we're that far ahead of the game. > either unix is more convuluted than I thought or we both > are getting really old ... :) IMHO, the convolution reflects our failure to teach the last couple of generations that there is more to design and programming than "Cool!" (I was going to say "Neato!") The "getting really old" is a default setting for which I have yet to find a really "cool" hack. :-) Thank you, everyone, for the help! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 05:51:02 -0800 (PST) From: Crni Gorac Subject: password-less SSH authentication Message-ID: What should be the name of file with public SSH keys, and in which directory this file should be stored on OpenVMS? The machine in question is eisner.decus.org, when connecting to a remote machine [.ssh2] directory is created in my home directory, and I tried with storing my public SSH key in files with names authorized_keys., and authorized_keys2. in this directory, but when trying to log to this machine, I'm still asked for password... Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:11:28 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: password-less SSH authentication Message-ID: <08011209112828_206002CA@antinode.org> From: Crni Gorac > What should be the name of file with public SSH keys, and in which > directory this file should be stored on OpenVMS? Under SYS$LOGIN, [.SSH2]AUTHORIZATION. holds the names of public key files. Mine looks like this: alp $ type [.ssh2]authorization. KEY SMS_ID_DSA_1024_A.PUB KEY SMS_NPP_ID_DSA_1024_A.PUB alp $ Note that this file contains names of other files which contain the key data. It does not contain the actual key data (as "authorized_keys" would). Assuming that you are (or it is) running TCPIP, the actual manual may be found at or near: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/index.html http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/tcpip56.html [...] http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/tcpip54.html [...] http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/732final/aa-rvbua-te/aa-rvbua-te.html > The machine in > question is eisner.decus.org, when connecting to a remote machine > [.ssh2] directory is created in my home directory, and I tried with > storing my public SSH key in files with names authorized_keys., and > authorized_keys2. in this directory, but when trying to log to this > machine, I'm still asked for password... As usual, "ssh -v [...]" could be informative. Note also that the key file formats on VMS (SSH2) tend to differ from those on other systems (OpenSSH), so some conversion may be needed. In some cases, it may be possible to generate a key on the VMS system just to see its format, and then convert (edit) a foreign key file to agree with it. (I started with key files generated on VMS, and then used "ssh-keygen -X" (or, later, "-i") on OpenSSH systems to convert in that direction. I don't know if there's a good tool that lets you go the other way. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 06:40:01 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Security level of SET PASS /GENERATE ? Message-ID: On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:23:02 -0800, JF Mezei wrote: > Used to run a private email system for some banking association. It was > interesting to deal with individual members because password policies > varied tremendously between banks. > > Some would be happy to not have anything, while others required that > their password requirements on my system had to match those of their > bank (and would ask me to set their expiry date to match that of their > accounts at their bank as they had set a day each month to change all > their passwords) > > When your employees access not only your own systems but external > systems as well, having policies for password selection on the external > systems is important as well. Many European banks issue a SecurID device, which must ne used as a secondary password for online banking -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 11:44:53 +0100 From: Albrecht Schlosser Subject: Re: USB-stick Message-ID: John Wallace wrote: > "Albrecht Schlosser" wrote in message [...] >> If you have access to the Cygwin tools on Windows, then you could try to >> pack your file(s) in a zip file, copy them with dd to the USB stick, >> mount this stick /FOR on the VMS system, and $ COPY the contents to >> a file called something.zip. Then, unzip this file. >> >> That's what I would try to do. [...] > Is there a reason one couldn't do something functionally equivalent to this, > but without needing Cygwin (or even ZIP), just by using MOUNT /FOREIGN and > BACKUP to/from a sequential saveset on the USB stick? > > $ mount /foreign dna1: > $ backup thefileineed.dat thesaveset.sav /sav > $ dismount dna1: > ... move stick to other box, reverse procedure, job done????? Well, somehow I implied that the OP wanted to copy a file from a Windows box to a VMS system. That's what I described. However, the other way (VMS to windows) would work, too. The idea behind using zip is: if you copy a file from or to a device mounted foreign, and this file has fixed length, 512 byte record size, then there won't be any trouble handling the correct record format. The same applies to copying with ftp (image mode), if there is a non-VMS system in the transport chain. The other advantage I thought of is that zip would find the beginning and end of the data, even if you copy the full raw USB device into one big file, but I may be wrong with that. > What have I overlooked? If I'm wrong and the OP wants to copy files from one VMS system to another VMS system (and both of them have a USB device), then your idea is much shorter, of course, but you might have to "repair" the backup saveset after retrieving it on the other system. Maybe you would also have to mount /for with an appropriate block size. Would backup write to such a device? I don't know and can't test it. Again, packing a saveset in a zip file and copying the zip file to the device should do the trick. Albrecht ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.024 ************************