INFO-VAX Sun, 23 Dec 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 701 Contents: Re: IMAP server security vulnerability Re: IMAP server security vulnerability Re: IMAP server security vulnerability Re: OT: Merry Christmas to c.o.v. ! Re: OT: Merry Christmas to c.o.v. ! Re: OT: Merry Christmas to c.o.v. ! Re: OT: Merry Christmas to c.o.v. ! Re: OT: Merry Christmas to c.o.v. ! Re: OT: Merry Christmas to c.o.v. ! Re: OT: Merry Christmas to c.o.v. ! Re: OT: Merry Christmas to c.o.v. ! Re: OT: Merry Christmas to c.o.v. ! Re: OT: Merry Christmas to c.o.v. ! Re: quick question Re: quick question Re: quick question Re: quick question Re: Volume label. Re: Volume label. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 16:32:14 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: IMAP server security vulnerability Message-ID: <476d825a$0$90266$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> IanMiller wrote: > IIRC IMAP is not a secure protocol and therefore its not recommended > to be allowing it on a interface connected to an untrusted network. not secure = not encrypted = vulnerable to password sniffing I don't think that imply that protection against password guessing (intrusion detection) is never necessary. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 16:48:02 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: IMAP server security vulnerability Message-ID: <476d860f$0$90267$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Richard Maher wrote: > What if the login attack was successful; is the last login time(s) updated? I am not so convinced that it should. POP3 and IMAP4 are not really a login and will happen very frequently. If you have a PC fetching POP3 email every 60 seconds, then I would say that having that update last non interactive login decreases security. > What privileges do your Apache, Tomcat, PHP, Python, and WASD, servers run > under? Python is not a server (servers written in Python do exist though). They should be running with normal privs (possible NETMBX and TMPMBX). > Do all these servers assume the VMS persona of the client before attemting > to access file/devices etc? Obviously not. Since login is not always required or even possible if it is to be public to everyone. > If we all continue to ignore Session-Hijacking do you reakon it'll go away? > > Cookies, Session Ids, Expiration Dates - that's what VMS is all about these > days :-( If it is web yes. > What's the authentication module for SOAP? Jan-Erik? Still HTTPS or is that > not part of the specification? I do not think I have ever heard of anyone doing web service authentication via HTTPS and client certficate. HTTPS for transport encryption and a oldfashioned username/password is common. If you are to the advanced stuff you use WS-S, which is signing and encryption at the message level instead of at the transport level. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 10:59:38 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: IMAP server security vulnerability Message-ID: Hi Arne, > They should be running with normal privs (possible NETMBX and TMPMBX). I'd be interested in hearing the experiences of others who've found the need to run their servers or servlet-containers at higher privileges. And for those of you who like VMS Auditing; how do you feel about the Server's username being logged against the audit logs for failed access attempts rather than the Client's username? Or wouldn't it be nice to have a trigger on an Rdb database table that could log the table access into an auditing table using the Session User Intrinsic rather than the System User? > If it is web yes. Not necessarily! > HTTPS for transport encryption and a oldfashioned username/password > is common. How is the username/password presented to the web-service? (In the wsse:token stuff, or plucked out of the URL, or passed as parameters?) > If you are to the advanced stuff you use WS-S, which is signing and > encryption at the message level instead of at the transport level. Ok, but can you explain a little more about the WS-Authorization/Authentication mechanisms involved? I guess I was asking Jan-Erik which method his SOAP implementation was using to pass Client-Authorization so that we could at least have a real world SOAP example. (Anyone been able to find examples on the HP/VMS site?) The gSOAP site says that gSOAP supports WS-Security and unless Jan-Erik's client doesn't request much except read-only Google-maps or "Give me the weather forcast" stuff, I'm guessing that the target of his SOAP-call would want to validate that a) the client is who he says he is, and b) that he's authorized to perform the requested action on the requested data. I, for one, am very interested in the codepath for how this is being achieved! Do you have to pass authorization for each SOAP call, or are you aiming for a Single-Sign-on mechanism like SAML? The term "Security Interceptors" sounds interesting also. As long as our System Managers are abrogating our control over our servers, data, and security, I'd just like to know a bit more. Who is your "Identity Provider"? How much does it cost? How long do the identities live? How do you prevent Identity-Hijacking a la mode de JavaScript Session-Hijacking? How could one integrate the Identity-providers "Identity" with our VMS Usernames? How many of you are working on, or have even seen (website please), an application that combines update functionality (not news/sports/weather-aggregators or language translators) from two or more disparate, heterogenous SOAP servers and RPCs? WS-AT? "Business Activity" transactions? BEA got a debit/credit thing happening with OracleiAS somewhere? Wanting point-to-point access from you to your bank-account is just too pedestrian I guess? Having the bank make the account transfers at the back-end rather than parking your Universal Currency Units temporarily in a Business Facilitator with compensatory-transaction skills, is clearly the way of the future. . .for some. SOAP by OASIS - talk about a horse designed by commitee :-( Cheers Richard Maher . . .And a Merry Christmas to and and all! "Arne Vajhøj" wrote in message news:476d860f$0$90267$14726298@news.sunsite.dk... > Richard Maher wrote: > > What if the login attack was successful; is the last login time(s) updated? > > I am not so convinced that it should. > > POP3 and IMAP4 are not really a login and will happen very frequently. > > If you have a PC fetching POP3 email every 60 seconds, then I would say > that having that update last non interactive login decreases security. > > > What privileges do your Apache, Tomcat, PHP, Python, and WASD, servers run > > under? > > Python is not a server (servers written in Python do exist though). > > They should be running with normal privs (possible NETMBX and TMPMBX). > > > Do all these servers assume the VMS persona of the client before attemting > > to access file/devices etc? > > Obviously not. Since login is not always required or even possible if > it is to be public to everyone. > > > If we all continue to ignore Session-Hijacking do you reakon it'll go away? > > > > Cookies, Session Ids, Expiration Dates - that's what VMS is all about these > > days :-( > > If it is web yes. > > > What's the authentication module for SOAP? Jan-Erik? Still HTTPS or is that > > not part of the specification? > > I do not think I have ever heard of anyone doing web service > authentication via HTTPS and client certficate. > > HTTPS for transport encryption and a oldfashioned username/password > is common. > > If you are to the advanced stuff you use WS-S, which is signing and > encryption at the message level instead of at the transport level. > > Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:50:35 -0800 (PST) From: AEF Subject: Re: OT: Merry Christmas to c.o.v. ! Message-ID: On Dec 22, 1:25 pm, Neil Rieck wrote: > On Dec 21, 3:48 am, JF Mezei wrote: > > > > > Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all readers of c.o.v. (1) > > > May this festive season bring you lots of snow (2), joy, happiness in > > your family. > > > May the next 12 months bring you success with your challenges and > > endeavours. > > > > > Disclaimer: > > > (1) If you are offended by the expression "Merry Christmas", then > > substitute it with "Happy Holidays". If your culture's calendar doesn't > > end on Dec 31, then disregard the "Happy New Year" expression. No > > offense meant to anyone for whom those wishes may be derogatory. > > > (2) For those in southern hemisphere, read "sun and fun at the beach" > > instead of "snow". > > > No animals were harmed in the making of the announcement. > > > Any use of the word "man" or "mankind" is meant to apply equally to all > > sexes. > > > This message has a very low carbon footprint. Only one fart was produced > > while typing it. > > \ > > > > Only one fart? :-) > > Seriously now, were has the time gone? > > Happy holidays to all no matter what your personal beliefs or cultural > observances. Whatever happened to "Season's Greetings"? > > Let's all hope/pray for world piece in 2008. Is that the Australian spelling of "piece"? :_) > > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, > Ontario, Canada.http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ AEF ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 20:36:41 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: OT: Merry Christmas to c.o.v. ! Message-ID: In article , AEF writes: >{...snip...} >Whatever happened to "Season's Greetings"? It confusing to me as I need to know the date and time of the solstices and equinoxes to determine whether it is winter's, spring's, summer's or fall's felicitations which are being bestowed. Merry Christmas, on the otherhand, defines a particularly well focused time coordinate. >> Let's all hope/pray for world piece in 2008. > >Is that the Australian spelling of "piece"? :_) A world piece is far more likely than world peace. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 16:00:41 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: OT: Merry Christmas to c.o.v. ! Message-ID: <476D8909.C09E5D56@spam.comcast.net> Neil Rieck wrote: > [snip] > Let's all hope/pray for world piece in 2008. Are you suggesting the possibility of producing another moon for Terra? Gee - and there's already all this flack about global warming... ;-) David J Dachtera DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 14:13:22 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: OT: Merry Christmas to c.o.v. ! Message-ID: <95df2a2e-2c2d-4e34-9caf-08bb3dd7a883@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Dec 22, 1:25=A0pm, Neil Rieck wrote: > On Dec 21, 3:48=A0am, JF Mezei wrote: > > > > > > > Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all readers of c.o.v. (1) > > > May this festive season bring you lots of snow (2), joy, happiness in > > your family. > > > May the next 12 months bring you success with your challenges and > > endeavours. > > > > > Disclaimer: > > > (1) If you are offended by the expression "Merry Christmas", then > > substitute it with "Happy Holidays". If your culture's calendar doesn't > > end on Dec 31, then disregard the "Happy New Year" expression. No > > offense meant to anyone for whom those wishes may be derogatory. > > > (2) For those in southern hemisphere, read "sun and fun at the beach" > > instead of "snow". > > > No animals were harmed in the making of the announcement. > > > Any use of the word "man" or "mankind" is meant to apply equally to all > > sexes. > > > This message has a very low carbon footprint. Only one fart was produced= > > while typing it. > > \ > > > > Only one fart? :-) > > Seriously now, were has the time gone? > > Happy holidays to all no matter what your personal beliefs or cultural > observances. > > Let's all hope/pray for world piece in 2008. > > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, > Ontario, Canada.http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Thanks to the kind souls who pointed out my error... Let's all hope/pray for world "peace" in 2008. p.s. Let's all hope that George W didn't see my original post then "push the big red button" :-) Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 16:20:49 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: OT: Merry Christmas to c.o.v. ! Message-ID: <476D8DC1.7B2E6843@spam.comcast.net> Neil Rieck wrote: > [snip] > Thanks to the kind souls who pointed out my error... > > Let's all hope/pray for world "peace" in 2008. > > p.s. Let's all hope that George W didn't see my original post then > "push the big red button" > > :-) Well, y'know, "piece", taken another way could mean a world of "love". Maybe the answer to global warming is a global daisy-chain... ;-) D.J.D. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 18:04:14 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: OT: Merry Christmas to c.o.v. ! Message-ID: <476D97EE.8020203@comcast.net> VAXman- wrote: > In article , AEF writes: > >>{...snip...} >>Whatever happened to "Season's Greetings"? > > > It confusing to me as I need to know the date and time of the solstices and > equinoxes to determine whether it is winter's, spring's, summer's or fall's > felicitations which are being bestowed. > December 21 is the Winter Solstice. June 21 is the Summer Solstice. March 21, if I'm not mistaken is the Spring Equinox and September 21 is the Fall Equinox. Are you all straightened out now? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 18:12:51 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: OT: Merry Christmas to c.o.v. ! Message-ID: <476d9a09$0$22096$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > December 21 is the Winter Solstice. June 21 is the Summer Solstice. > > March 21, if I'm not mistaken is the Spring Equinox and September 21 is > the Fall Equinox. > > Are you all straightened out now? Nop ! More confused than ever. You forgot to mention whether your statement applied to the northern or southern hemisphere, and whether at the equator, which season applies ? Shoudln't there also be a wet equinox and a dry equinoxe for those areas of the planet where there are only 2 seasons ? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:28:59 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: OT: Merry Christmas to c.o.v. ! Message-ID: <476DABCB.7070404@comcast.net> JF Mezei wrote: > Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > >>December 21 is the Winter Solstice. June 21 is the Summer Solstice. >> >>March 21, if I'm not mistaken is the Spring Equinox and September 21 is >>the Fall Equinox. >> >>Are you all straightened out now? > > > > Nop ! More confused than ever. You forgot to mention whether your > statement applied to the northern or southern hemisphere, and whether at > the equator, which season applies ? > > Shoudln't there also be a wet equinox and a dry equinoxe for those areas > of the planet where there are only 2 seasons ? Since VAXman and I are separated by a little less than 60 miles, the equinoxes I gave him have the same meaning for both of us. If he plans to change hemispheres he will need to make some adjustments. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 00:39:30 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: OT: Merry Christmas to c.o.v. ! Message-ID: <67ibj.5$BX2.3@newsfe12.lga> In article <476D97EE.8020203@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > > >VAXman- wrote: >> In article , AEF writes: >> >>>{...snip...} >>>Whatever happened to "Season's Greetings"? >> >> >> It confusing to me as I need to know the date and time of the solstices and >> equinoxes to determine whether it is winter's, spring's, summer's or fall's >> felicitations which are being bestowed. >> > > > >December 21 is the Winter Solstice. June 21 is the Summer Solstice. > >March 21, if I'm not mistaken is the Spring Equinox and September 21 is >the Fall Equinox. > >Are you all straightened out now? No. The winter solstice was at 6:08UT 22 Dec. Thus, in the eastern time zone where you and I reside, solstice was at 1:08 Dec. 22. Folks in Mountain and Pacific time zones had solstice at 23:08 and 22:08 on the 21st. The solstices and equinoxes vary from year to year and can occur on different days depending upon the time zone where one resides. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 20:22:41 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: OT: Merry Christmas to c.o.v. ! Message-ID: <476DB861.6010004@comcast.net> VAXman- wrote: > In article <476D97EE.8020203@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > >> >>VAXman- wrote: >> >>>In article , AEF writes: >>> >>> >>>>{...snip...} >>>>Whatever happened to "Season's Greetings"? >>> >>> >>>It confusing to me as I need to know the date and time of the solstices and >>>equinoxes to determine whether it is winter's, spring's, summer's or fall's >>>felicitations which are being bestowed. >>> >> >> >> >>December 21 is the Winter Solstice. June 21 is the Summer Solstice. >> >>March 21, if I'm not mistaken is the Spring Equinox and September 21 is >>the Fall Equinox. >> >>Are you all straightened out now? > > > No. > > The winter solstice was at 6:08UT 22 Dec. Thus, in the eastern time zone > where you and I reside, solstice was at 1:08 Dec. 22. Folks in Mountain > and Pacific time zones had solstice at 23:08 and 22:08 on the 21st. The > solstices and equinoxes vary from year to year and can occur on different > days depending upon the time zone where one resides. > If you already knew, why did you imply that you needed to know? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 14:02:38 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: quick question Message-ID: <476D5F4E.6040206@comcast.net> Neil Rieck wrote: > On Dec 19, 4:36 am, JF Mezei wrote: > >>Sue wrote: >> >>>Can somone tell me what M15 is and what it has to do with VMS. I am >>>sorry I just do not know. >>>sue >> >>MI-5 is the UK equivalent of your FBI. (aka: domestic security) >> >>MI-6 is the UK equivalent of yor CIA/NSA/whatever other 3 letter >>acronym. (James Bond works for MI-6) >> > > > Incase anyone cares, "MI" stands for "Military Intelligence" > > (I apologize if you are now laughing uncontrollably) How many former "oxymorons" do we have here? I was an oxymoron! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 14:10:56 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: quick question Message-ID: <476d615d$0$25350$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Neil Rieck wrote: > > Incase anyone cares, "MI" stands for "Military Intelligence" > This is misleading. The Security Service (the official name) is now a civilian organisation remporting to the ministry of the interior (but not part of it). http://www.mi5.gov.uk/output/Page443.html But you are correct that when it was formed back in 1909, it was part of the military. It changed from Military Operations to Military Intelligence in 1916. Not sure if it became civilian in 1931 (renamed Security Service) or in 1989 when its charter was last modified. http://www.mi5.gov.uk/output/Page65.html The hostory of James Bond's employer are at: http://www.mi6.gov.uk/output/Page50.html Interesting that both organisations go out of their way to mention that the MI5 or MI6 isn't their official name anymore, but their web site uses that name :-) Note that during 2nd world war, there were 17 MI divisions. MI6 reports to the Foreign Office. Warning: accessing any of these sites will provide MI5/6 with personal information about you. What computer you are using, what languages you accept, where you are located, the colour and type of underwear as well as whether you are supportive of terrorists or not. (all included in the HTTP request sent to them :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:48:41 -0800 (PST) From: AEF Subject: Re: quick question Message-ID: On Dec 22, 11:56 am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > In article <476C7ADA.E9618...@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > > >Malcolm Dunnett wrote: > > >> Michael Kraemer wrote: > >> >> The only other episode I can recall offhand in which this type of > >> >> thing happens is The Changeling (Nomad). The end of the show where > >> >> Kirk talks Nomad into self-destruction is absolutely brilliant. What > >> >> other episodes am I forgetting? There's Landru (Are you of the > >> >> body? :-) but I think they just used their phasers on it. > > Kirk's destructive effect on computer systems has it's own webpage > see > > http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Induced_self-destruction > > ( > and No Landru was destroyed by Kirk showing that it had violated it's own > directive by harming the "body" by allowing the civilisation to stagnate. Ah yes. It was the wall behind which Landru resided that was blasted by the phasers. Somehow I didn't recall Kirk talking him down, but I'm sure that's right. I loved the tubes that converted people by gently "firing" sparks at them (or do I recall that incorrectly also!) and I especially liked the spooky look on Landru's face! Question: In all these episodes, how can the computers be so powerful, capable, etc., and even more amazing, never crash or get hung, yet can be easily talked out of doing their evil biddings by Kirk? A reboot would be fun: Kirk: Quick, blast it while it's rebooting! > ) > > David Webb [...] AEF ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 20:03:11 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: quick question Message-ID: In article , AEF writes: > Question: In all these episodes, how can the computers be so powerful, > capable, etc., and even more amazing, never crash or get hung, yet can > be easily talked out of doing their evil biddings by Kirk? Why does Scotty need almost the whole episode to cut through a wall with a phaser in order to get to some hidden cable etc while a Klingon can just punch his fist through it? Scotty, squeezed inside the Jeffries tube, talking to Kirk on the intercom: I can give ye power to the shields, captain, but I can't give ye warp drive! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:53:41 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Volume label. Message-ID: In article <4f065429-003a-460c-b0b7-63ad8756f2cf@n20g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > On Dec 22, 6:26 am, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- > remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > > In article <476bda4f$0$22049$c3e8...@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei > > > > writes: > > > > $define/system/exec/trans=(conc,terminal) $mydisk 'f$trnlnm("$DISK2") > > > > $define/system/exec/trabs=(conc) $mydisk $DISK2 > > > > > in cases where you want to: > > > > > > $define/system/trans=(conc,term) $myroot 'f$trnlnm("$mydisk")'[myroot.] > > > > > The first case will work. The second case won't work because $myroot > > > will point to $disk2 which won't translate to whatever disk drive it is > > > pointing to. > > > > Yes. However, if you really need to define a (CONC,TERM) logical name, > > I would recommend writing a procedure which uses F$PARSE, NOCONCEAL etc > > to define it properly whatever parameter is passed to it. > > WHY would you ever "really need" to do this? The purpose of "terminal" > is to stop logical name translation when a "terminal" equivalence name > is encountered. You don't need "terminal" in and of itself. You only > need it when you have to stop logical name translation. If you're > equivalence name contains a logical name, you need to NOT make that > equivalence name "terminal". Various software wants/needs terminal equivalence names for security reasons, so a user can't redefine a logical name and thus change where the logical name used by the software ends up (yes, there are other ways to achieve the same effect). In such cases, the setup procedure for this software could use such a procedure: the manager would enter the target disk, and the procedure would translate it until it got to the final translation and then use that for its own definitions. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:56:43 -0800 (PST) From: AEF Subject: Re: Volume label. Message-ID: <1dfafb08-8ae4-493b-9073-0813333cda47@21g2000hsj.googlegroups.com> On Dec 22, 10:27 am, AEF wrote: > On Dec 22, 6:26 am, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- > remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > > > > > In article <476bda4f$0$22049$c3e8...@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei > > > writes: > > > > $define/system/exec/trans=(conc,terminal) $mydisk 'f$trnlnm("$DISK2") > > > > $define/system/exec/trabs=(conc) $mydisk $DISK2 > > > > in cases where you want to: > > > > > $define/system/trans=(conc,term) $myroot 'f$trnlnm("$mydisk")'[myroot.] > > > > The first case will work. The second case won't work because $myroot > > > will point to $disk2 which won't translate to whatever disk drive it is > > > pointing to. > > > Yes. However, if you really need to define a (CONC,TERM) logical name, > > I would recommend writing a procedure which uses F$PARSE, NOCONCEAL etc > > to define it properly whatever parameter is passed to it. > > WHY would you ever "really need" to do this? The purpose of "terminal" > is to stop logical name translation when a "terminal" equivalence name > is encountered. You don't need "terminal" in and of itself. You only > need it when you have to stop logical name translation. If you're > equivalence name contains a logical name, you need to NOT make that > equivalence name "terminal". Uh, I need to correct myself here. (Apologies if that bugs anyone -- responding to my own post, i.e.) Actually, I have a case at work where I have one logical name translate to another and stop there via the terminal translation attribute as it is then plopped into a file-spec containing a node name and I need it translated on the remote node specified in that file-spec. So still yet again, it's what you need to do, not that you need conc,term for the sake of it being conc,term. > > Remember: CONC and TERM are attributes of equivalence names, not > logical names. For example, SYS$SYSROOT translates to a search string > containing a terminal equivalence name followed by a non-terminal one. > So you can't say that SYS$SYSROOT is "terminal" or not. It translates > to equivalence names of both types. > > AEF > > AEF AEF ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.701 ************************