INFO-VAX Mon, 17 Dec 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 690 Contents: Compiling PHP and/or any PHP Extension on VMS Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Re: looking for blue |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| logo Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) Re: Shifted Function Keys On OpenVMS XWindows Don't Work Timezone rule change won't stick! Re: Unix for VMS guys Re: Unix for VMS guys Re: Unix for VMS guys Re: Unix for VMS guys Re: VMS 5.5-2 patch question Re: Why can't I use an IA64 as a boot server for an Alpha? Re: Why can't I use an IA64 as a boot server for an Alpha? Re: ZKO to close ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 09:34:24 -0800 (PST) From: Grant Croker Subject: Compiling PHP and/or any PHP Extension on VMS Message-ID: <3780b58b-d104-4aae-822e-32e472253f51@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> Hi, I have over the last year or so tried to build the PHP source provided by HP[1] on OpenVMS. The driver for this is a client request to have the PHP Ingres extension[2] built on the same platform. Unfortunately I have encountered problems building PHP using the supplied source. Whilst I realize the source code has been provided as-is and "The save sets do not include complete build procedures...", I was wondering if any brave soul had managed to build PHP on their VMS system? regards grant [1] http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws_source.html [2] http://pecl.php.net/ingres ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 07:32:54 -0800 (PST) From: "David P. Murphy" Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: HP to close Nashua site By ASHLEY SMITH Telegraph Staff asmith@nashuatelegraph.com NASHUA - Hewlett-Packard is closing its Nashua site, sending all the jobs to Massachusetts and bringing an end to a quarter-century of computer development that goes back to the days of Digital Equipment Corp. Company spokesman Ed Woodward said the move comes as part of an effort to cut real estate costs and does not involve a reduction in staff. Employees were notified in a meeting Tuesday afternoon, he said. Woodward said the company plans to vacate the Spit Brook Road building by June of next year. On a case-by-case basis, some employees will be allowed to work from home rather than commute to Marlborough, Mass. It is unclear how many employees will be affected. HP does not disclose the number of employees in each facility. All of the computer equipment is being shipped to an unspecified location in Jackson, NJ, which is widely known as a worldwide focus point for VAX machines. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:44:06 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: <47669946.2020200@comcast.net> David P. Murphy wrote: > HP to close Nashua site > By ASHLEY SMITH Telegraph Staff > asmith@nashuatelegraph.com > > NASHUA - Hewlett-Packard is closing its Nashua site, sending all the > jobs to Massachusetts and bringing an end to a quarter-century of > computer development that goes back to the days of Digital Equipment > Corp. > > Company spokesman Ed Woodward said the move comes as part of an effort > to cut real estate costs and does not involve a reduction in staff. > Employees were notified in a meeting Tuesday afternoon, he said. > > Woodward said the company plans to vacate the Spit Brook Road building > by June of next year. On a case-by-case basis, some employees will be > allowed to work from home rather than commute to Marlborough, Mass. > > It is unclear how many employees will be affected. HP does not > disclose the number of employees in each facility. All of the > computer equipment is being shipped to an unspecified location in > Jackson, NJ, which is widely known as a worldwide focus point for VAX > machines. Why do I have this feeling of deja vu? I don't think this is news any longer! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 07:52:26 -0800 (PST) From: "David P. Murphy" Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: <7631c102-7060-4ef2-97de-1ec1d56d60aa@b1g2000pra.googlegroups.com> On Dec 17, 10:44 am, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > Why do I have this feeling of deja vu? > > I don't think this is news any longer! Perhaps I was too subtle. ok dpm ------------------------------ Date: 17 Dec 2007 11:52:20 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: <0NqzBHrHoNM$@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , "David P. Murphy" writes: > It is unclear how many employees will be affected. HP does not > disclose the number of employees in each facility. All of the > computer equipment is being shipped to an unspecified location in > Jackson, NJ, which is widely known as a worldwide focus point for VAX > machines. "VAX machines"? HP still has VAXen? Or is this just another example of journalistic accuracy? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:45:39 -0800 (PST) From: "David P. Murphy" Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: On Dec 17, 12:52 pm, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article , "David P. Murphy" writes: > > > It is unclear how many employees will be affected. HP does not > > disclose the number of employees in each facility. All of the > > computer equipment is being shipped to an unspecified location in > > Jackson, NJ, which is widely known as a worldwide focus point for VAX > > machines. > "VAX machines"? HP still has VAXen? Or is this just another > example of journalistic accuracy? When my employer discovers the damaged surfaces in my cubicle and demands to know what caused the forehead-shaped dents, I can refer him to the posts by Bob and Richard. I was attempting to have a bit of fun at Brian's expense, but apparently I have overestimated the number of comp.os.vms readers who know of the VAXcave. http://www.tmesis.com/VAXcave/ I would also add, just because I am very nitpicky, that I did not say that any VAXen were being moved, merely that the destination of the equipment was known for its VAXenicity. ok dpm ------------------------------ Date: 17 Dec 2007 16:26:47 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Message-ID: <5snma7F1a6a99U1@mid.individual.net> If I pull out an old MVII that has some relatively old version of VMS on it and stick an RXV11 in it, will it work? Will it recognize it? Will it actually read disks in it? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 17 Dec 2007 11:59:48 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Message-ID: <8EZc8Wl4JUvg@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <5snma7F1a6a99U1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > If I pull out an old MVII that has some relatively old version of VMS on > it and stick an RXV11 in it, will it work? Will it recognize it? Will > it actually read disks in it? RXV11 should connect to RX01, which is not listed as supported. I don't think there was any RX01 support except via the LSI-11 in the 11/78x console. But it might work anyhow. RX02 didn't look too much different. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Dec 2007 18:19:56 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Message-ID: <5snsucF1a8askU2@mid.individual.net> In article <8EZc8Wl4JUvg@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article <5snma7F1a6a99U1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> If I pull out an old MVII that has some relatively old version of VMS on >> it and stick an RXV11 in it, will it work? Will it recognize it? Will >> it actually read disks in it? > > RXV11 should connect to RX01, which is not listed as supported. I > don't think there was any RX01 support except via the LSI-11 in the > 11/78x console. > > But it might work anyhow. RX02 didn't look too much different. Next question. Given the above. :-) If I have all the necessary hardware info, how hard is it write a device driver for VMS? I have another 8" controller for QBUS that was never supported by DEC but did have RT-11 drivers written by the vendor so it did work there. Would it be reaosnable to try to write and install a device driver for this card or is it likely more work than it would be worth and not likely to succeed. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 17 Dec 2007 10:36:53 -0600 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) Subject: Re: looking for blue |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| logo Message-ID: <5f$v2l2EHrmu@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) writes: Thanks to everyone that responded with links. I think I've found the mother lode, thanks to Paul Anderson and Ned Batchelder. This is now probably the ultimate logo reference: http://nedbatchelder.com/blog/20071216T110049.html > BTW, after seeing the announcement for the PDP LinkedIn group, I was > wondering if there was interest in a Digital alumni group. I see them for HP > and IBM and other computer companies; DEC needs to be represented there. Or > is there already one there that I somehow missed? And I've discovered that there isn't one but at least TWO DEC alumni groups on LinkdIn already. But they don't show up on the rather small group index pages. At least one of the creators wants to merge the two into one if possible. Those ex-DECcies on LinkedIn can go to https://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/31829/5C2521314E46/ and/or http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/28209/0A356A3C554C Alas, one uses the Palmer era red logo (a remnant of all the red ink from his era), and the other a logo that doesn't incorporate the 7 lower case block letters we all know and love. That will have to change! -- Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://www.nira-rocketry.org/Document/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org Sir, if I was building a weapon of mass destruction, you wouldn't be able to find it. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Dec 2007 07:59:12 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) Message-ID: In article , norm.raphael@metso.com writes: > > Easy there. I did not say there were no local taxes, only that the state > had to grant the locality permission to tax...and I could be wrong; the > point is Commonwealths have their own political differences from States. > That's all I was trying to say. As far as the Feds are concerned, they're all states. As far as the individual states are concerned, they can each call themselves whatever they please with no connection to any pre-conceived notion of what that means. Any actuall similarity between those calling themselves "Commonwealths" is pure political whim. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:26:06 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 005A4D81852573B4_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote on 12/17/2007 08:59:12 AM: > In article 0005B358@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes: > > > > Easy there. I did not say there were no local taxes, only that the state > > had to grant the locality permission to tax...and I could be wrong; the > > point is Commonwealths have their own political differences from States. > > That's all I was trying to say. > > As far as the Feds are concerned, they're all states. As far as the > individual states are concerned, they can each call themselves > whatever they please with no connection to any pre-conceived notion > of what that means. Any actual similarity between those calling > themselves "Commonwealths" is pure political whim. > Yes, I agree about the Feds. In Mass., for example, every citizen has the right of free petition to the Great and General Court of the Commonwealth. That means he or she can draft legislation and request his or her legislator to file it. That is, I believe, a condition true only in Commonwealth states. That's an impediment to efficiency, but not political whim. So I think we agree that differences are internal and no form has a monopoly on opportunities for corruption. --=_alternative 005A4D81852573B4_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"



koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote on 12/17/2007 08:59:12 AM:

> In article <OFBC8E4190.757416D8-ON852573B1.000573DF-852573B1.
> 0005B358@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes:
> >
> > Easy there.  I did not say there were no local taxes, only that the state
> > had to grant the locality permission to tax...and I could be wrong; the
> > point is Commonwealths have their own political differences from States.
> > That's all I was trying to say.
>
>    As far as the Feds are concerned, they're all states.  As far as the
>    individual states are concerned, they can each call themselves
>    whatever they please with no connection to any pre-conceived notion
>    of what that means.  Any actual

 similarity between those calling
>    themselves "Commonwealths" is pure political whim.
>

Yes, I agree about the Feds.
In Mass., for example, every citizen has the right of free petition to the
Great and General Court of the Commonwealth.  That means he or she can draft
legislation and request his or her legislator to file it.  That is, I believe,
a condition true only in Commonwealth states.  That's an impediment to
efficiency, but not political whim.

So I think we agree that differences are internal and no form has a monopoly
on opportunities for corruption. --=_alternative 005A4D81852573B4_=-- ------------------------------ Date: 17 Dec 2007 08:04:21 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Shifted Function Keys On OpenVMS XWindows Don't Work Message-ID: <14TvUJL+l$MQ@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <390d0551-4b67-4d70-84fb-1814a2a2c422@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, The_Nth_Traveler writes: > Summary: > I would like to know how to get function keys F11-F20 to map to Shift- > F1 to Shift-F10 on a Windows based Xserver connecting to Xwindows on > OpenVMS You pretty much can't fix this from the VMS end since it has no control over what your PC is sending to VMS. There are a couple of solutions: 1) use a terminal emulator on your PC that will do what you want to do 2) attach a keypad to your PC that will do what you want to do I use both. I use PuTTY as my terminal emulator and a Targus USB keypad to have all the missing buttons that are so hard to get to with IBM/Lenovo style keypad mapping. Using a DECterm from my VMS systems, or the X11 based version of TPU is no-joy. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:48:00 -0800 (PST) From: ChrisL Subject: Timezone rule change won't stick! Message-ID: <9d677706-3b47-4ada-ba17-b8320194495a@c4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> We have several DS15 alphas running VMS 7.3-2 with DTSS, all of them currently have a problem which will show up at the next clock change in March. show log SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE gives the following output. "SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE" = "GMT0BST-1,M3.4.0/01,M10.4.0/02" (LNM $SYSTEM_TABLE) If this rule is used in March our clocks will go forward a week early. The rule should be "GMT0BST-1,M3.5.0/01,M10.5.0/02" I've followed instructions for using NET$CONFIGURE.COM to select the Europe/London rule combination, which generated DTSS$UTC_STARTUP.COM and TDF$UTC_STARTUP.COM files all of which indicate the correct rule. After this the rule does change however DTSS does not come back up so I have to reboot the system. Once the system comes back up SYS $TIMEZONE_RULE is back to it's original, incorrect, value. I can't find any COM files in our start up sequence that override the SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE variable so, for the moment at least, I am completely stumped as to where this incorrect value is coming from. Most of these systems are production machines and the idea of having to manually coordinate time changes across them all sends chills up my spine! If anyone has seen this before and can advise where I should look next or maybe even let me know how to fix it I would appreciate it greatly. Thanks in advance. Chris. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Dec 2007 07:54:14 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Unix for VMS guys Message-ID: In article <5sfmt2F18qogpU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > As I said, vipw has been around since 1980 which, of course, pre-dates > even Solaris by quite a bit. You will pardon me if I am just a bit > skeptical. Of course, if it was Solaris, you could have used the real > documentation (Sun has long a wall to rival the Grey, Orange or even > Blue walls from DEC). The "real" documentation? You mean the man pages aren't perfect? > >> >> All I did in vipw was add one line with a new name, UID, and login >> path. > > Well, my experience is that vipw usually refuses to save a corrupt file > if your entries are wrong and if all you put in was "a new name, UID, > and login path" that would have been insufficient. I've never seen vipw refuse to save anything I put into /etc/passwd on any UNIX. But I did clone an existing line and just update the name, UID, login path, and clear the password field. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Dec 2007 15:25:16 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Unix for VMS guys Message-ID: <5snimsF1aafpiU1@mid.individual.net> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article <5sfmt2F18qogpU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >> As I said, vipw has been around since 1980 which, of course, pre-dates >> even Solaris by quite a bit. You will pardon me if I am just a bit >> skeptical. Of course, if it was Solaris, you could have used the real >> documentation (Sun has long a wall to rival the Grey, Orange or even >> Blue walls from DEC). > > The "real" documentation? You mean the man pages aren't perfect? Of course they are, but as everyone knows, there is a real big market for "XXX for Idiots" books and people fill those needs. >> >>> >>> All I did in vipw was add one line with a new name, UID, and login >>> path. >> >> Well, my experience is that vipw usually refuses to save a corrupt file >> if your entries are wrong and if all you put in was "a new name, UID, >> and login path" that would have been insufficient. > > I've never seen vipw refuse to save anything I put into /etc/passwd > on any UNIX. But I did clone an existing line and just update the > name, UID, login path, and clear the password field. From vipw on a FreeBSD system: added line cyrux:*:60:60::0:the cyrus mail server:/nonexistent:/usr/sbin/nologin Note, it is short one field. typed ZZ got back: /etc/pw.hJu9kX: 27 lines, 1698 characters pwd_mkdb: corrupted entry pwd_mkdb: at line #27 pwd_mkdb: /etc/pw.hJu9kX: Inappropriate file type or format re-edit the password file? I suppose I could have forced it to accept the corrupt file, but then, that wold be my fault, wouldn't it. Sorry, sounds way too much like the usual user comment, "I didn't do anything, it just stopped working." Followed shortly by, "Well, I did install this cool screen saver, but I'm sure it isn't the problem." To be fair, Linux appears to be more than capable of screwing up the password file but then, I have said all along that Linux was crap so this just further confirms it. The solution, stay with real Unix. I don't have a copy of Solaris available to test it, but I would bet ti, too, would not save a corupted password file by default. I will check it out when I get a chance. I'm not really a big fan of Solaris either. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 17 Dec 2007 11:48:55 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Unix for VMS guys Message-ID: <20kF+vnoddvq@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <5snimsF1aafpiU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > Sorry, sounds way too much like the usual user comment, "I didn't do > anything, it just stopped working." Followed shortly by, "Well, I did > install this cool screen saver, but I'm sure it isn't the problem." So, since I have a habit of noting UNIX shortcomings in real life, none of them could be true? ------------------------------ Date: 17 Dec 2007 18:15:39 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Unix for VMS guys Message-ID: <5snsmbF1a8askU1@mid.individual.net> In article <20kF+vnoddvq@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article <5snimsF1aafpiU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >> Sorry, sounds way too much like the usual user comment, "I didn't do >> anything, it just stopped working." Followed shortly by, "Well, I did >> install this cool screen saver, but I'm sure it isn't the problem." > > So, since I have a habit of noting UNIX shortcomings in real life, > none of them could be true? Didn't say that. But, given your bias and my (rather extensive) experience I have my doubts. Kind of like me pointing out VMS shortcomings and saying all you experts are just plain wrong.... Give me some real info, (just like they ask for here) Version, exact commands typed, etc. And I will gladly try to duplicate it, but don't expect me to just accept that you're right when I have more than enough experience to have serious doubts. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:37:57 +0000 From: "R.A.Omond" Subject: Re: VMS 5.5-2 patch question Message-ID: gerry77@no.spam.mail.com wrote: > [...snip...] > > [1] http://decnet.ipv7.net/index.html.en Gerry77, that's very impressive! I'd be interested to learn more about Retro DECnet. If you're ever in the UK, I have one or two systems I'd be willing to donate to your efforts. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Dec 2007 08:13:12 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Why can't I use an IA64 as a boot server for an Alpha? Message-ID: In article , JF Mezei writes: > > Note that a VAX was able to serve Alpha boot requests. (even though it > was not supported). Cross-architecture booting was not supported when Alphas first came out, but support was added after there was time for sufficient testing. The same may be true for IA-64, but I thought I'd already seen it on the roadmap. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 09:06:29 -0800 From: Malcolm Dunnett Subject: Re: Why can't I use an IA64 as a boot server for an Alpha? Message-ID: <4766ac96$1@flight> Bob Koehler wrote: > > Cross-architecture booting was not supported when Alphas first came > out, but support was added after there was time for sufficient > testing. > That's all I was really getting at with my original post. I can't see any technical reason it shouldn't work just fine and I was wondering if anyone had any insights into hidden showstoppers or if it's just a case of "we haven't tested that sufficiently yet". I don't see anything in the Sept 2007 Roadmap about cross-architecture booting. It seems to focus on mixed architecture clusters via shared FC storage. That's what I normally do, but I'm trying to build a smaller version of a mixed architecture cluster for a satellite campus. Rather than using an MSA array I want to use a Smart Array controller in the IA64 box (rx2600) which will support several arrays using disks in a 4200 series shelf. The Alpha server I want to use is a DS10L. The two systems will communicate via GB ethernet (which testing indicates offers more than adequate performance even with MSCP serving all the DS10L disk access over the ethernet). I could use an ATA drive in the DS10L, but performance of these in the DS10L is fairly poor and I wouldn't have any redundancy for the system disk. I guess I need to do a bit more testing to decided between the "supported but slow" local ATA disk vs the "unsupported but fast" network served disk. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:45:23 -0500 From: John Reagan Subject: Re: ZKO to close Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > >>FWIW, this needs to move with the rest of VMS engineering. >> >>http://wiz.openvms.org/images/zk03bench/jw_zk03_bench_2.jpg > > > OK, consider this SPECULATION just for a minute. Say that 3 months after > the move, HP announces the end of VMS. Where should the bench go after > there is nothing VMS related left at the MA site ? > > > Perhaps a better tribute would be to have the onwer of ZKO declare the > bench (and perhaps the non-paged pool) to be historical monuments that > must remain in place for perpetuity. > > > Or is there some computer museum who would accept the bench ? Mr > Wisniewski was known outside of the VMS community as well. The JW bench will surely leave ZKO. Might end up in Sue's back yard, who knows. Same with the non-paged pool sign and various other "oddities" around here -- John Reagan OpenVMS Pascal/Macro-32/COBOL Project Leader Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.690 ************************