INFO-VAX Thu, 13 Dec 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 682 Contents: Re: 20+ year old encrypted source code Re: 20+ year old encrypted source code Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) Re: OT: One Laptop per Child Re: Picking nits Re: Picking nits Re: Picking nits Re: Removing blank lines in a file... Re: Removing blank lines in a file... Re: Removing blank lines in a file... Shifted Function Keys On OpenVMS XWindows Don't Work Re: SSRVEXCEPT, Unexpected system service exception Re: SSRVEXCEPT, Unexpected system service exception Re: SSRVEXCEPT, Unexpected system service exception Re: SSRVEXCEPT, Unexpected system service exception Re: Unix for VMS guys VMS Audio Update - Episode #14 Re: What causes a STKOVF ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 07:41:40 GMT From: Tad Winters Subject: Re: 20+ year old encrypted source code Message-ID: FrankS wrote in news:6024224e-dcdd-4dd1-a058- b295c054c526@l16g2000hsf.googlegroups.com: > Any thoughts on how source code that was produced circa 1985 may have > been encrypted "back in the day"? > > The source code files are available, and a $DIR/FULL shows fixed, 512- > byte records. The contents are pure gibberish. I have no way of > knowing how they were encrypted. > > The good news (if you can look at it that way) is that the system disk > has likely been upgraded in-place all these years. Therefore, if > there was something installed to do the encryption it's probably still > there. > > I just don't know what command or utility to look for. Did you ever find an answer? It occurs to me that there was a squeeze program used back in those days, though I don't remember if it was available on VMS. You might try writing a little program of you own that analyzes these files looking for 2 or more adjacent printable characters, just in case it yields some kind of signature. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 04:53:27 -0800 (PST) From: FrankS Subject: Re: 20+ year old encrypted source code Message-ID: <3f8038ae-cd0b-4b9b-935f-4fba7216782d@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com> On Dec 13, 2:41 am, Tad Winters wrote: > Did you ever find an answer? > It occurs to me that there was a squeeze program used back in those days, > though I don't remember if it was available on VMS. > You might try writing a little program of you own that analyzes these files > looking for 2 or more adjacent printable characters, just in case it yields > some kind of signature. I tried everything that has been mentioned here and suggestions sent to me privately, all to no avail. At this point I've rewritten about 8 of 12 routines and used VEST to migrate everything else. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 03:17:57 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: <23bc4$4760ea2f$cef8887a$14489@TEKSAVVY.COM> B H wrote: > http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071212/NEWS01/312120101 Is this the last remnant of Digital Equipment Corporation ? Or are there other digital-legacy buildings that are still being used by HP ? In terms of staffing,I have seen circumstances where a move has forced employees to resign because they were not offered telecommuting and they could not do the traveling bit. I need to thank the former VMS engineer who managed to convince me in a subtle way that VMS was too far behind to ever come back. I am therefore less emotionally attached and this news which essentially amounts to a partial funeral for VMS simply re-enforces my decision to finally move my butt to another platform. I say partial funeral not so much because ZKO is being abandonned by HP, but because HP confirms that staffing levels have been reduced sufficiently to close that building. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 03:24:10 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: I wonder if many VMS engineers would opt for some severance package and then work for HP on a contact basis. This way, their income would still be declared in NH. Any new on how long time digits still at ZKO (like Sue) are taking the news ? This move isn't a susprise, but I guess it woudl still be quite har on people who have spent so many years there (like those who had worked at the mill). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 06:10:27 -0500 From: Bob Willard Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > Is this the last remnant of Digital Equipment Corporation ? Or are there > other digital-legacy buildings that are still being used by HP ? > MRO has been a DEC/CPQ/HP plant since the '70s. DEC bought the MRO buildings when RCA dropped out of the computer business. -- Cheers, Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 04:04:55 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: On Dec 13, 6:10 am, Bob Willard wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: > > Is this the last remnant of Digital Equipment Corporation ? Or are there > > other digital-legacy buildings that are still being used by HP ? > > MRO has been a DEC/CPQ/HP plant since the '70s. DEC bought the MRO > buildings when RCA dropped out of the computer business. > > -- > Cheers, Bob I spent quite a bit of time during the 1980s in the customer lab at 20 Crosby Drive, Bedford Mass. At that time, many DEC employees had a short commute back to NH because of Bedford's northern location. By the 1990's DEC had moved customer training to Marlborough and Maynard. Lots of people told us (Canadians) about the "taxachussetts name" but we were shocked to learn that taxes in Mass taxes were lower than taxes in Ontario, Canada. The only thing I can add is that New Hampshire and Massachusetts are very beautiful at all times of the year. I envy all of you. Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 07:31:39 -0500 From: bradhamilton Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: <4761262B.105@comcast.net> B H wrote: > http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071212/NEWS01/312120101 If HP wants to move the ZKO employees a little farther south, there's a large abandoned mill building available: :-) There's even a small street in our town called DEC Court. :-) :-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 04:50:45 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: <5417d233-1b49-46b1-9562-25ed1eb21733@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com> I saw the announcement about the closing of ZKO around noon yesterday, but I try to avoid posting in haste. The following in my personal comment. I can assure all that there is free of any discussions with OpenVMS Product Management or members of the Engineering team. Even as someone who has never held a Digital/Compaq/HP badge, will need to adjust to Spit Brook Road not being the off-ramp from the highway for OpenVMS Engineering. I have been traveling to Spit Brook Road since about 1980, shortly after it opened. I remember how all of the development groups that I had been dealing with at Digital (RSX-11, DECnet, then VAX/VMS) had been scattered at various sites in Massachusetts, and how all of them, in stages to be sure, migrated to ZKO. I was there on a visit on one of the rare days when the entire facility had to shut down, to allow the construction teams to use explosives to clear some rock for the site that became, if I recall correctly, ZK3. But that was a long time ago. The change from South Nashua to Marlborough will take getting used to, but it is not the end. The world is different today than it was in the late 1970's, when Spit Brook Road became the home of then-Digital software engineering. Then, sitting in the lobby, there was a constant flow of people in and out. Today, with large numbers of telecommuters, there is far less traffic. Ironically, this is a technology that Digital effort spearheaded in many ways. When Spit Brook was built, it was far more necessary for software engineering to be adjacent to the laboratory on a minute to minute basis, this is far less so today. Some groups still need physical access to lab facilities, and I am sure that the labs will be reconstituted in Marlborough. Other groups have been using remotely located systems for so long that a lab is no longer necessary in the next room. Still others have been on personal systems for so long that any office location is suitable. The technology has changed in three decades, and the office requirements of the organization as a group have changed. There have been some comments about taxes, commutes and other issues. In all honesty, the issue of state income taxes is a highly technical one, and I would recommend any and all to speak with a tax professional familiar with these issues. How the details shake out, differs dramatically from one individual to another. Where employees are considered to "work" is complex. Additionally, state taxes may be deductible. There is no easy way to compute the impact, short of going back to the last few years and generating the appropriate tax returns. Some commutes will be longer, some shorter, and others merely different. For many years, OpenVMS Engineering has had members throughout the world. Many of these members were in ZKO for only the briefest of intervals. It has never been about the geography, it is about the shared ethos. It will be a change to take the off-ramp for Marlborough, and not continue the three decades long path around the Boston outer beltway to Route 3, and then up Route 3 to the New Hampshire border, where the first landmark was to see the Medieval outline of the (now) Radisson, but I will get used to it. There will be some sadness at the end of this spring's bootcamp to say goodbye to the facility that has been a part of our lives for so long, but I look forward to visiting OpenVMS Engineering in Marlborough at their new offices. - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2007 12:58:54 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: <5scokeF181864U1@mid.individual.net> In article <476093E9.8030909@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > Dan O'Reilly wrote: >> At 06:21 PM 12/12/2007, bradhamilton wrote: >> >>> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>> >>>> In article , >>>> brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) writes: >>>> >>>>> billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>>>> >>>>>> "Ken Robinson" writes: >>>>>> >>>>>>> What's this going to do to the location for the VMS Technical Boot >>>>>>> Camp? It's my understanding that the location was picked to be close >>>>>>> to the VMS engineers in Nashua. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At least the article indicated that there would be no jobs eliminated >>>>>>> by the move. >>>>>> >>>>>> Unless it turns out that HP offers them enough to take early(?) >>>>>> retirement that they all opt to leave on their own. The result >>>>>> for VMS would be pretty much the same as a layoff. >>>>> >>>>> There is no early retirement being offered. >>>>> >>>>> As many VMS engineers live in NH (and pay no income tax), I expect >>>>> a large number of VMS engineering will telecommute, rather than work >>>>> in MA and pay a 5.3% income tax. >>>> >>>> If their place of employment is in MA won't MA get to tax them anyway? >>>> I know that was the way it worked around here. Before PA had things >>>> lime "occupational priviledge" taxes people who worked over the border >>>> in NY had to pay it to NY. That was one of the reasons why PA started >>>> doing it. If the tax had to be paid anyway, why shouldn;t they be the >>>> one collecting (and profiting from) it. >>> >>> >>> I think so - as a former Fidelity employee working in Marlborough, (we >>> shared the "campus" with Compaq/HP) one of my managers commuted from >>> Manchester, NH, and paid income tax - since NH has none, I'm assuming >>> he paid MA income tax. Perhaps there was some kind of "arrangement" >>> between the two states that I'm unaware of. >> >> >> I doubt that was the case. I live in CO and telecommute to MA (Process >> Software). I pay CO taxes, not MA taxes. The interesting thing is, >> there are some MA labor laws that affect me here in CO, although paying >> taxes isn't one of them. Did you pay CO taxes? > > Massachusetts laws may affect you but they can't be enforced against you > since you are not in their jurisdiction! Massachusetts can enforce > their laws against an employer who is within their jurisdiction. > > I used to work in Pennsylvania but paid no Pennsylvania income taxes > because I was employed and paid by a company in New Jersey. > Did you pay NJ taxes? Luckily, except for local taxes, they can only tax you in one jurisdiction. The whole point is that when two states are involved, one of them is going to collect income taxes. If your home state doesn't have them then ususally, the state in which you work has the right to collect them. Unless, I guess, you lived in NH and worked in NV. :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2007 13:02:59 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: <5scos3F181864U2@mid.individual.net> In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > In article <47607D71.2040505@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >> >> >>Rich Jordan wrote: >>> On Dec 12, 1:55 pm, "B H" wrote: >>> >>>>http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071212/NE... >>> >>> >>> Thats just too bad. Given a choice between New Hampshire and >>> taxachussetts, a state that gives Ill-annoy a run for the "most >>> incompetent and corrupt" title, I know where I'd prefer to live and >>> work... That and I got to visit that facility a couple of times... it >>> feels like more of a loss because of those trips. >> >>I thought everyone knew that New Jersey is the "most incompetent and >>corrupt"! > > I wasn't going to bring it up. ;) > Well, PA is in the running too. All the way down to the local level. I know, I live in a county that thinks borrowing $90,000,000 is balancing the budget. And when a local resident stalled that plan by filing a complaint in court they have taken to meeting to decide what to do, all behind closed doors. And we won't even get into the fact that the entire state from top to bottom is run by carpetbaggers. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2007 13:17:28 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: <5scpn7F181864U3@mid.individual.net> In article , norm.raphael@metso.com writes: > This is a multipart message in MIME format. > --=_alternative 000EE72B852573B0_= > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Dan O'Reilly wrote on 12/12/2007 08:33:56 PM: > >> At 06:21 PM 12/12/2007, bradhamilton wrote: >> >Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> >>In article , >> >> brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) writes: >> >>>billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >>>> "Ken Robinson" writes: >> >>>>>What's this going to do to the location for the VMS Technical Boot >> >>>>>Camp? It's my understanding that the location was picked to be > close >> >>>>>to the VMS engineers in Nashua. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>At least the article indicated that there would be no jobs > eliminated >> >>>>>by the move. >> >>>>Unless it turns out that HP offers them enough to take early(?) >> >>>>retirement that they all opt to leave on their own. The result >> >>>>for VMS would be pretty much the same as a layoff. >> >>>There is no early retirement being offered. >> >>> >> >>>As many VMS engineers live in NH (and pay no income tax), I expect >> >>>a large number of VMS engineering will telecommute, rather than work >> >>>in MA and pay a 5.3% income tax. >> >>If their place of employment is in MA won't MA get to tax them anyway? >> >>I know that was the way it worked around here. Before PA had things >> >>lime "occupational priviledge" taxes people who worked over the border >> >>in NY had to pay it to NY. That was one of the reasons why PA started >> >>doing it. If the tax had to be paid anyway, why shouldn;t they be the >> >>one collecting (and profiting from) it. >> > >> >I think so - as a former Fidelity employee working in Marlborough, (we >> >shared the "campus" with Compaq/HP) one of my managers commuted from >> >Manchester, NH, and paid income tax - since NH has none, I'm assuming > he >> >paid MA income tax. Perhaps there was some kind of "arrangement" > between >> >the two states that I'm unaware of. >> >> I doubt that was the case. I live in CO and telecommute to MA (Process >> Software). I pay CO taxes, not MA taxes. > > > (Since Col. has income taxes, your case is not analogous.) > The thing if it is: Since N.H. has no income tax, Mass. can and does > collect Non-Resident State Income Tax from those living in N.H., but > working in Mass. > My point exactly. That makes this move a sudden reduction of pay by several thousand dollars for all these people. Depending on circumstances, this could be a very strong incentive to either retire, if possible, or just find other employment. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:30:21 -0500 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: <4760ED9D.27454.432F14D@infovax.stanq.com> On 13 Dec 2007 at 4:50, Bob Gezelter wrote: > There will be some sadness at the end of this spring's bootcamp to say > goodbye to the facility that has been a part of our lives for so long Perhaps Sue could arrange a tour like she did for the Mill last year. That was my first trip there, and I've never been to ZK-land (close, but never visited). --Stan Quayle Quayle Consulting Inc. ---------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH 43147 USA stan-at-stanq-dot-com http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:52:23 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > In article <47607D71.2040505@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >> >> >>Rich Jordan wrote: >>> On Dec 12, 1:55 pm, "B H" wrote: >>> >>>>http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071212/NE... >>> >>> >>> Thats just too bad. Given a choice between New Hampshire and >>> taxachussetts, a state that gives Ill-annoy a run for the "most >>> incompetent and corrupt" title, I know where I'd prefer to live and >>> work... That and I got to visit that facility a couple of times... it >>> feels like more of a loss because of those trips. >> >>I thought everyone knew that New Jersey is the "most incompetent and >>corrupt"! > > I wasn't going to bring it up. ;) Rhode Island. With a population and area smaller than New Hampshire, they have almost twice as many state employees as NH, many of them patronage positions. Maybe the people don't mind. The former mayor of Providence just got back from a few years in federal prison for corruption to a hero's welcome. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:34:50 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: In article <5scos3F181864U2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > >In article , > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >> In article <47607D71.2040505@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >>> >>> >>>Rich Jordan wrote: >>>> On Dec 12, 1:55 pm, "B H" wrote: >>>> >>>>>http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071212/NE... >>>> >>>> >>>> Thats just too bad. Given a choice between New Hampshire and >>>> taxachussetts, a state that gives Ill-annoy a run for the "most >>>> incompetent and corrupt" title, I know where I'd prefer to live and >>>> work... That and I got to visit that facility a couple of times... it >>>> feels like more of a loss because of those trips. >>> >>>I thought everyone knew that New Jersey is the "most incompetent and >>>corrupt"! >> >> I wasn't going to bring it up. ;) >> > >Well, PA is in the running too. All the way down to the >local level. I know, I live in a county that thinks borrowing >$90,000,000 is balancing the budget. And when a local resident >stalled that plan by filing a complaint in court they have taken >to meeting to decide what to do, all behind closed doors. > >And we won't even get into the fact that the entire state from top >to bottom is run by carpetbaggers. I know one who isn't. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:46:46 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: In article <5417d233-1b49-46b1-9562-25ed1eb21733@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Bob Gezelter writes: >{...snip...} >first landmark was to see the Medieval outline of the (now) Radisson, >but I will get used to it. There will be some sadness at the end of >this spring's bootcamp to say goodbye to the facility that has been a >part of our lives for so long, but I look forward to visiting OpenVMS >Engineering in Marlborough at their new offices. Which is why I will always cherish this photo: http://www.tmesis.com/pix/VAXman_at_the_gates_of_heaven.jpg I will be at the bootcamp this spring even if I have to drive up there and sleep in the van for the week -- just don't get too close to me by week's end though. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 07:26:51 -0800 (PST) From: Sue Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: On Dec 12, 3:25 pm, "Ken Robinson" wrote: > On Dec 12, 2007 2:55 PM, B H wrote: > > >http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071212/NE... > > What's this going to do to the location for the VMS Technical Boot > Camp? It's my understanding that the location was picked to be close > to the VMS engineers in Nashua. > > At least the article indicated that there would be no jobs eliminated > by the move. > > Ken The Boot Camp is still on as scheduled and as always we will see what is the best thing to do for the customers and engineers regarding the boot camp. Sue ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:04:20 -0800 (PST) From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: <574b62a9-e70b-4274-bbea-aabb758c5d04@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com> On Dec 13, 8:46 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <5417d233-1b49-46b1-9562-25ed1eb21...@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Bob Gezelter writes: > > >{...snip...} > >first landmark was to see the Medieval outline of the (now) Radisson, > >but I will get used to it. There will be some sadness at the end of > >this spring's bootcamp to say goodbye to the facility that has been a > >part of our lives for so long, but I look forward to visiting OpenVMS > >Engineering in Marlborough at their new offices. > > Which is why I will always cherish this photo: > > http://www.tmesis.com/pix/VAXman_at_the_gates_of_heaven.jpg > > I will be at the bootcamp this spring even if I have to drive up there > and sleep in the van for the week -- just don't get too close to me by > week's end though. > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > > http://tmesis.com/drat.html I was there in 1998 for a training class the same week the shareholder vote sold out Digital. Somewhere I have a snapshot of that same sign with flowers laid all around it. Sigh Yeah maybe a bit maudlin, but just last month my parents moved out of the house I grew up in, back in Las Vegas. That was harder than this but it still is a loss. Rich ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:07:04 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 00588A2B852573B0_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007 08:52:23 AM: > In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > > In article <47607D71.2040505@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" > writes: > >> > >> > >>Rich Jordan wrote: > >>> On Dec 12, 1:55 pm, "B H" wrote: > >>> > >>>>http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071212/NE... > >>> > >>> > >>> Thats just too bad. Given a choice between New Hampshire and > >>> taxachussetts, a state that gives Ill-annoy a run for the "most > >>> incompetent and corrupt" title, I know where I'd prefer to live and > >>> work... That and I got to visit that facility a couple of times... it > >>> feels like more of a loss because of those trips. > >> > >>I thought everyone knew that New Jersey is the "most incompetent and > >>corrupt"! > > > > I wasn't going to bring it up. ;) > > Rhode Island. > > With a population and area smaller than New Hampshire, they have almost > twice as many state employees as NH, many of them patronage positions. > Maybe the people don't mind. The former mayor of Providence just got > back from a few years in federal prison for corruption to a hero's > welcome. It is a condition of the forming of the United States of America that the older states, with their legacy of colonial governments, are the most likely to be (seen as) corrupt. They have institutionalized patronage systems and no incentive to change cultures, in fact the opposite. [Massachusetts has an elected Governor's Council which was created in colonial times as a check on the Crown-appointed Governor and which has left only the power to confirm judicial appointments, and which has successfully withstood numerous calls and campaigns for its elimination. Seven pols no one can name - odds are no one can name even his/her own - who are a needless drain on the treasury, but it's a political sinecure.] Also, Mass. and Penn. and Va. (and Ky, for some reason) are Commonwealths, an even older form of government where the cities and towns are creatures of the state with no power of their own to tax. In Mass., the legislature controls the budget of the courts - not exactly three separate branches. Then there is the Big Dig - $15 Billion and one confirmed negligent death, which will be "finished" 12/31/07. On the other hand, no state is "a city on a hill." --=_alternative 00588A2B852573B0_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"



moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007 08:52:23 AM:

> In article <up%7j.4$Xg.0@newsfe12.lga>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
> > In article <47607D71.2040505@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert"
> <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:
> >>
> >>
> >>Rich Jordan wrote:
> >>> On Dec 12, 1:55 pm, "B H" <bill03...@comcast.ner> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071212/NE...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thats just too bad.  Given a choice between New Hampshire and
> >>> taxachussetts, a state that gives Ill-annoy a run for the "most
> >>> incompetent and corrupt" title, I know where I'd prefer to live and
> >>> work...  That and I got to visit that facility a couple of times... it
> >>> feels like more of a loss because of those trips.
> >>
> >>I thought everyone knew that New Jersey is the "most incompetent and
> >>corrupt"!
> >
> > I wasn't going to bring it up.  ;)
>
> Rhode Island.
>
> With a population and area smaller than New Hampshire, they have almost
> twice as many state employees as NH, many of them patronage positions.
> Maybe the people don't mind.  The former mayor of Providence just got
> back from a few years in federal prison for corruption to a hero's
> welcome.

It is a condition of the forming of the United States of America that the
older states, with their legacy of colonial governments, are the most
likely to be (seen as) corrupt.  They have institutionalized patronage
systems and no incentive to change cultures, in fact the opposite.

[Massachusetts has an elected Governor's Council which was created in
colonial times as a check on the Crown-appointed Governor and which has
left only the power to confirm judicial appointments, and which has
successfully withstood numerous calls and campaigns for its elimination.
Seven pols no one can name - odds are no one can name even his/her own -
who are a needless drain on the treasury, but it's a political sinecure.]

Also, Mass. and Penn. and Va. (and Ky, for some reason) are
Commonwealths, an even older form of government where the cities and
towns are creatures of the state with no power of their own to tax.
In Mass., the legislature controls the budget of the courts - not exactly
three separate branches.  Then there is the Big Dig - $15 Billion and
one confirmed negligent death, which will be "finished" 12/31/07.

On the other hand, no state is "a city on a hill." --=_alternative 00588A2B852573B0_=-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:23:36 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) Message-ID: norm.raphael@metso.com writes: >This is a multipart message in MIME format. >--=_alternative 00588A2B852573B0_= >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007 >08:52:23 AM: >> In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG >writes: >> > In article <47607D71.2040505@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" >> writes: >> >> >> >> >> >>Rich Jordan wrote: >> >>> On Dec 12, 1:55 pm, "B H" wrote: >> >>> >> >>>>>http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071212/NE... >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Thats just too bad. Given a choice between New Hampshire and >> >>> taxachussetts, a state that gives Ill-annoy a run for the "most >> >>> incompetent and corrupt" title, I know where I'd prefer to live and >> >>> work... That and I got to visit that facility a couple of times... >it >> >>> feels like more of a loss because of those trips. >> >> >> >>I thought everyone knew that New Jersey is the "most incompetent and >> >>corrupt"! >> > >> > I wasn't going to bring it up. ;) >> >> Rhode Island. >> >> With a population and area smaller than New Hampshire, they have almost >> twice as many state employees as NH, many of them patronage positions. >> Maybe the people don't mind. The former mayor of Providence just got >> back from a few years in federal prison for corruption to a hero's >> welcome. >It is a condition of the forming of the United States of America that the >older states, with their legacy of colonial governments, are the most >likely to be (seen as) corrupt. They have institutionalized patronage >systems and no incentive to change cultures, in fact the opposite. I think it has more to do with where powerful political machines existed in the late 1800s, which probably depended on where the big cities of the time were. I don't sense NH, one of the original 13 colonies, as corrupt nor states like NC SC GA or DE as any worse than average. Also among the 13. >[Massachusetts has an elected Governor's Council which was created in >colonial times as a check on the Crown-appointed Governor and which has >left only the power to confirm judicial appointments, and which has >successfully withstood numerous calls and campaigns for its elimination. >Seven pols no one can name - odds are no one can name even his/her own - >who are a needless drain on the treasury, but it's a political sinecure.] Yes, that Governor's Council is a joke. >Also, Mass. and Penn. and Va. (and Ky, for some reason) are >Commonwealths, an even older form of government where the cities and >towns are creatures of the state with no power of their own to tax. "Commonwealth" for those four states is just a name, it has nothing to do with the type of government or anything. It's not like the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, which is a unique creature, and not a state. New England type towns are pretty much unique to New England, and I'm pretty sure cities and towns in PA VA KY are quite different, and different from each other. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:34:20 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 00608760852573B0_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007 12:23:36 PM: > norm.raphael@metso.com writes: > > >This is a multipart message in MIME format. > >--=_alternative 00588A2B852573B0_= > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > >moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007 > >08:52:23 AM: > > >> In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG > >writes: > >> > In article <47607D71.2040505@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" > >> writes: > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>Rich Jordan wrote: > >> >>> On Dec 12, 1:55 pm, "B H" wrote: > >> >>> > >> > >>>>>http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071212/NE... > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> Thats just too bad. Given a choice between New Hampshire and > >> >>> taxachussetts, a state that gives Ill-annoy a run for the "most > >> >>> incompetent and corrupt" title, I know where I'd prefer to live and > >> >>> work... That and I got to visit that facility a couple of times... > >it > >> >>> feels like more of a loss because of those trips. > >> >> > >> >>I thought everyone knew that New Jersey is the "most incompetent and > >> >>corrupt"! > >> > > >> > I wasn't going to bring it up. ;) > >> > >> Rhode Island. > >> > >> With a population and area smaller than New Hampshire, they have almost > >> twice as many state employees as NH, many of them patronage positions. > >> Maybe the people don't mind. The former mayor of Providence just got > >> back from a few years in federal prison for corruption to a hero's > >> welcome. > > >It is a condition of the forming of the United States of America that the > >older states, with their legacy of colonial governments, are the most > >likely to be (seen as) corrupt. They have institutionalized patronage > >systems and no incentive to change cultures, in fact the opposite. > > I think it has more to do with where powerful political machines existed > in the late 1800s, which probably depended on where the big cities of the > time were. > > I don't sense NH, one of the original 13 colonies, as corrupt nor states > like NC SC GA or DE as any worse than average. Also among the 13. > Yes, the ones with seaports, commerce, cities are indeed the ones. > >[Massachusetts has an elected Governor's Council which was created in > >colonial times as a check on the Crown-appointed Governor and which has > >left only the power to confirm judicial appointments, and which has > >successfully withstood numerous calls and campaigns for its elimination. > >Seven pols no one can name - odds are no one can name even his/her own - > >who are a needless drain on the treasury, but it's a political sinecure.] > > Yes, that Governor's Council is a joke. > > >Also, Mass. and Penn. and Va. (and Ky, for some reason) are > >Commonwealths, an even older form of government where the cities and > >towns are creatures of the state with no power of their own to tax. > > "Commonwealth" for those four states is just a name, it has nothing to > do with the type of government or anything. It's not like the Commonwealth > of Puerto Rico, which is a unique creature, and not a state. I am not a poli-sci major, but a Commonwealth state is in fact a different "type of government." Notice that those in Ky who want to avail themselves of a gambling casino must cross the river to Ohio. There are not yet any in Mass. either, whereas in N.J. the world is different. This is not a coincidence. Puerto Rico is a Trust Territory, something outside the scope of this discussion (which I prefer to leave outside). > > New England type towns are pretty much unique to New England, and I'm > pretty sure cities and towns in PA VA KY are quite different, and different > from each other. > --=_alternative 00608760852573B0_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"



moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007 12:23:36 PM:

> norm.raphael@metso.com writes:
>
> >This is a multipart message in MIME format.
> >--=_alternative 00588A2B852573B0_=
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> >moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 12/13/2007
> >08:52:23 AM:
>
> >> In article <up%7j.4$Xg.0@newsfe12.lga>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG
> >writes:
> >> > In article <47607D71.2040505@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert"
> >> <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>Rich Jordan wrote:
> >> >>> On Dec 12, 1:55 pm, "B H" <bill03...@comcast.ner> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >>
> >>>>>http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071212/NE...
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thats just too bad.  Given a choice between New Hampshire and
> >> >>> taxachussetts, a state that gives Ill-annoy a run for the "most
> >> >>> incompetent and corrupt" title, I know where I'd prefer to live and
> >> >>> work...  That and I got to visit that facility a couple of times...
> >it
> >> >>> feels like more of a loss because of those trips.
> >> >>
> >> >>I thought everyone knew that New Jersey is the "most incompetent and
> >> >>corrupt"!
> >> >
> >> > I wasn't going to bring it up.  ;)
> >>
> >> Rhode Island.
> >>
> >> With a population and area smaller than New Hampshire, they have almost
> >> twice as many state employees as NH, many of them patronage positions.
> >> Maybe the people don't mind.  The former mayor of Providence just got
> >> back from a few years in federal prison for corruption to a hero's
> >> welcome.
>
> >It is a condition of the forming of the United States of America that the
> >older states, with their legacy of colonial governments, are the most
> >likely to be (seen as) corrupt.  They have institutionalized patronage
> >systems and no incentive to change cultures, in fact the opposite.
>
> I think it has more to do with where powerful political machines existed
> in the late 1800s, which probably depended on where the big cities of the
> time were.
>
> I don't sense NH, one of the original 13 colonies, as corrupt nor states
> like NC SC GA or DE as any worse than average.  Also among the 13.
>

Yes, the ones with seaports, commerce, cities are indeed the ones.

> >[Massachusetts has an elected Governor's Council which was created in
> >colonial times as a check on the Crown-appointed Governor and which has
> >left only the power to confirm judicial appointments, and which has
> >successfully withstood numerous calls and campaigns for its elimination.
> >Seven pols no one can name - odds are no one can name even his/her own -
> >who are a needless drain on the treasury, but it's a political sinecure.]
>
> Yes, that Governor's Council is a joke.
>
> >Also, Mass. and Penn. and Va. (and Ky, for some reason) are
> >Commonwealths, an even older form of government where the cities and
> >towns are creatures of the state with no power of their own to tax.
>
> "Commonwealth" for those four states is just a name, it has nothing to
> do with the type of government or anything.  It's not like the Commonwealth
> of Puerto Rico, which is a unique creature, and not a state.


I am not a poli-sci major, but a Commonwealth state is in fact a
different "type of government."  Notice that those in Ky who want to avail
themselves of a gambling casino must cross the river to Ohio.  There are not
yet any in Mass. either, whereas in N.J. the world is different.  This is
not a coincidence.

Puerto Rico is a Trust Territory, something outside the scope of this
discussion (which I prefer to leave outside).

>
> New England type towns are pretty much unique to New England, and I'm
> pretty sure cities and towns in PA VA KY are quite different, and different
> from each other.
>
--=_alternative 00608760852573B0_=-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:50:06 -0800 (PST) From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: OT Corrupt States (was Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO)) Message-ID: On Dec 13, 12:34 pm, norm.raph...@metso.com wrote: > different "type of government." Notice that those in Ky who want to avail > > themselves of a gambling casino must cross the river to Ohio. There are > not > yet any in Mass. either, whereas in N.J. the world is different. This is > not a coincidence. Actually it's Indiana that has the casinos on the Ohio river. Us in Ohio must go elsewhere for casino gambling. Though last March there was a referendum about putting slots in certain places. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:21:04 +0100 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: OT: One Laptop per Child Message-ID: <4760eb71$0$21927$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk> George Cook wrote: > In article , Michael Kraemer > writes: >> George Cook schrieb: >>> In article , Michael Kraemer >>> writes: >>>> >>>> Well, "official" Mosaic stopped at 2.7-sth IIRC. >>>> This version is unable to render most of the stuff >>>> which is around in the WWW today. >>> >>> >>> I am curious why you think "official" would be a requirement? >>> >> >> I'm well aware that you are the current maintainer of Mosaic. >> This is of course appreciated and I might consider it even >> for other historical platforms left in the cold >> as far as browsers are concerned. >> >> However, I'm curious how a single person can hope to keep >> up with the ever changing web standards, as compared to the number >> of people working on Mozilla, Firefox, Opera etc. >> And as compared to the number of people working at M$ to spoil the >> standards. > > One person can't if you want everything Mozilla, etc. does, but a > lot of what they do is little more than bloat. If I understand > correctly, Firefox resulted from that realization. Yes, css and > javascript are needed for many web pages, but I don't remember > any web page I have needed to use which required Java. > All 4 of my banks. Dweeb > One of the purposes of VMS Mosaic is to provide a very fast, light > weight browser which doesn't depend on a huge amount of the latest > and greatest bloatware. Motif 1.1 and a TCP/IP with UCX compatibility > are the only requirements for everything except secure connection > support. > > Mosaic also makes a decent VMS file browser (unlike Mozilla which > uses Unix syntax). > > Unfortunately, I agree completely with your comment about M$ > spoiling the standards. The crap that is produced and passes for > valid HTML is incredible. A bunch of moneys at keyboards comes to > mind. As a computer programmer I find it embarassing. > > > George Cook > WVNET ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2007 08:45:05 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Picking nits Message-ID: <6FQ+wqcnD7HI@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <3f119ada0712120741w5beb2d61y4a094ce5af1178cf@mail.gmail.com>, DeanW writes: > I know this is minor- but I installed 8.3 on a different disk in my > Hobbyist RX2600 and tripped over this: What's wrong with this > picture? > > $ tcpip sho ver > > HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Industry Standard 64 Version V5.6 > on an HP rx2600 (1.40GHz/1.5MB) running OpenVMS V8.3 > > $ type SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0.SYSEXE]MODPARAMS.DAT > ! SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0.SYSEXE]MODPARAMS.DAT > ! Created during installation of OpenVMS AXP V8.3 11-DEC-2007 14:59:20.69 > ! > [snip] Must be a missing %BLISS directive in that module. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:59:09 -0800 From: DeanW Subject: Re: Picking nits Message-ID: <3f119ada0712130959q1880e1e1ra2ac5698025e07ce@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 12, 2007 11:49 AM, wrote: > >Intel Developer Forum, where I was lucky enough to meet VAXman, Bob > >Gezelter, and a couple other notables. > > Hi Dean! I remember that IDF... at some hotel in northern proNJ. > Is your rx2600 still running? After the IDF licenses expired, It sat idle for quite a while, until someone here sold me a copy of 8.3 media last winter. It's been running ever since. One day I'll even get to do something fun with it (other than build an 8.3 system disk for my boss's RX2620) -- Dean Woodward =o&o dean.woodward@gmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:20:38 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: Picking nits Message-ID: On Dec 12, 12:24 pm, DeanW wrote: > On Dec 12, 2007 8:44 AM, Mark Daniel wrote: > > > A hobbyist (note the spelling Steven) with an RX2600? ;-) > > Intel Developer Forum, where I was lucky enough to meet VAXman, Bob > Gezelter, and a couple other notables. Dean, Thank you for the hello. I hope that things are well with you! - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:19:57 +0000 From: Tom Wade Subject: Re: Removing blank lines in a file... Message-ID: > Quick everyone! What is "1---1"?? > It's the expression for the last day of the previous month! Both the > month and the year are defaulted to the current values. . . . I never knew that (and I've been looking after VMS since 2.5). Incidentally, it seems to be a composite. "1--" seems to be the first of the current month (which makes sense), and the extra "-1" is one hour behind that. Converting dates to ISO-8601: PICARD-# a==f$cvtime("1--","comparison") PICARD-# show sym a A == "2007-12-01 00:00:00.00" PICARD-# a==f$cvtime("1---1","comparison") PICARD-# show sym a A == "2007-11-30 23:00:00.00" neat. --------------------------------------------------------- Tom Wade | EMail: tee dot wade at eurokom dot ie EuroKom | Tel: +353 (1) 296-9696 A2, Nutgrove Office Park | Fax: +353 (1) 296-9697 Rathfarnham | Disclaimer: This is not a disclaimer Dublin 14 | Tip: "Friends don't let friends do Unix !" Ireland ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 06:04:20 -0800 (PST) From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: Removing blank lines in a file... Message-ID: <65fccf93-00ae-469b-9e7c-5dcedd357c46@d27g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Dec 13, 7:19 am, Tom Wade wrote: > > Quick everyone! What is "1---1"?? > I never knew that (and I've been looking after VMS since 2.5). > Incidentally, it seems to be a composite. "1--" seems to be the first of > the current month (which makes sense), and the extra "-1" is one hour > behind that. yeah, which is not as useful as adding one more dash $ write sys$output f$cvtime("1---1-","comparison") 2007-11-30 00:00:00.00 Which leads me to the 'leap year test' I posted years ago: $ LEAP = F$CVTIME("28-FEB-''year' +1-",,"DAY") .NE. 1 But that's really over complicated, as this will do just fine (with a dash) $ LEAP = F$CVTIME("1-MAR-''year' -1-",,"DAY") and for the current year: $ LEAP = F$CVTIME("1-MAR- -1-",,"DAY") $ IF LEAP THEN ... This work of cours because in DCL true or false depends on the least significant bit wether binary or text is being tested. So "28" is false, "29" is true. But we are drifting away from the blank line stripping.... When is someone going to compliment/berate me on the shortest program I've ever written which still performs a useful, requested task? Just 2 characters! ( $ awk "NF" file.dat :-) Cheers Hein ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:21:53 +0100 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: Removing blank lines in a file... Message-ID: <47617846$0$19307$ba620dc5@text.nova.planet.nl> on 12-12-2007 22:38 Larry Kilgallen wrote... > Your opinion is not correct. The difference between FN and FS is > that FN provides an automatic Yank whenever required. Ok, foot in mouth, I stand corrected. Hmm, that doesn't sound right either... -- Wilm Boerhout Zwolle, NL remove OLD PAINT from return address to reply ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 07:58:42 -0800 (PST) From: The_Nth_Traveler Subject: Shifted Function Keys On OpenVMS XWindows Don't Work Message-ID: <390d0551-4b67-4d70-84fb-1814a2a2c422@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Summary: I would like to know how to get function keys F11-F20 to map to Shift- F1 to Shift-F10 on a Windows based Xserver connecting to Xwindows on OpenVMS Folks, I have been trying to use an OpenVMS Alpha system over Xwindows on a Windows PC instead of a VT terminal emulator. Through the use of an Windows based XWindows server, I have been able to establish an XWindows logon just as if I were at the system console. However, one of my applications requires the use of the keys F7-F20. On the system console, I of course have dedicated physical keys for these function keys (it is a LK411 keyboard). However, on a PC I only have F1-F12. I would like to make the PC function keys F1-F10 work as OpenVMS function keys F11-F20 when shifted, i.e. Shift-F2=F12. I wrote a simple DCL script to define the programmable keys to output the name of the key pressed, i.e.: $ ! KEY_TEST.COM $ set terminal /application_keypad $ set terminal /noline_editing $ define /key PF1 "PF1 " $ define /key PF2 "PF2 " . . . $ define /key F19 "F19 " $ define /key F20 "F20 " On a VT terminal emulator, I was able to get all the keys to work, including keys F11-F20 (except on this emulator, F11-F20 is defined as CTRL+F1, etc.). When I press "F13" (i.e. CTRL-F3), I get "F13 " shown on the screen (after running the KEY_TEST.COM script). Both the VT terminal emulator and Xwindows server have a means to redefine the output of the keyboard. I have done so on both the VT and Xwindows. On the XWindows server, I have defined F11 to be Shift- F1, F12 to be Shift -F2, etc. When logging onto the OpenVMS system via the Windows based Xwindows server, the OpenVMS system shows the Xwindow F7 key (keycode=72) to be defined as "keycode 72 = F7 F17" (as shown by the DECW $UTILS:XMODMAP.EXE tool with options -pke, i.e. xmodmap -pke). And when using DECW$UTILS:XEV.EXE, and I press and release F7, I get KeyPress event, serial 16, synthetic NO, window 0x800001, root 0x28, subw 0x800002, time 161257078, (35,51), root:(210,957) state 0x0, keycode 72 (keysym 0xffc4), F7), same_screen YES, XLookupString gives 0 characters: "" KeyRelease event, serial 16, synthetic NO, window 0x800001, root 0x28, subw 0x800002, time 161257203, (35,51), root:(210,957) state 0x0, keycode 72 (keysym 0xffc4), F7), same_screen YES, XLookupString gives 0 characters: "" Now when I press the key combination Shift+F7, I get KeyPress event, serial 16, synthetic NO, window 0x800001, root 0x28, subw 0x800002, time 161659734, (35,51), root:(210,957) state 0x0, keycode 61 (keysym 0xffe2), Shift_R), same_screen YES, XLookupString gives 0 characters: "" KeyPress event, serial 16, synthetic NO, window 0x800001, root 0x28, subw 0x800002, time 161660250, (35,51), root:(210,957) state 0x1, keycode 72 (keysym 0xffce), F17), same_screen YES, XLookupString gives 0 characters: "" KeyRelease event, serial 16, synthetic NO, window 0x800001, root 0x28, subw 0x800002, time 161660328, (35,51), root:(210,957) state 0x1, keycode 72 (keysym 0xffce), F17), same_screen YES, XLookupString gives 0 characters: "" KeyRelease event, serial 16, synthetic NO, window 0x800001, root 0x28, subw 0x800002, time 161660500, (35,51), root:(210,957) state 0x1, keycode 61 (keysym 0xffe2), Shift_R), same_screen YES, XLookupString gives 0 characters: "" which is what I believe I would expect. However, if I do this at a VMS prompt (i.e. $), I simply get a beep, and nothing else is shown on the screen. Now , if I issue the command at the OpenVMS prompt: $ xmodmap -e "keycode 72 = F17 F7" And then press the F7 key, F17 shows up! When I press Shift+F7, I get the beep again. So it seems like I cannot get Function keys to work when they are shifted. Any ideas? I also tried to get this to work directly on the console by removing the definition of F11 through F20 from the actual keys, and mapping F11-F20 to be shifted F1-F10. No luck there as well. It is like I am fighting an operating system problem. Any help would be appreciated. Sincerely, The_Nth_Traveler ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 06:14:34 -0800 (PST) From: Volker Halle Subject: Re: SSRVEXCEPT, Unexpected system service exception Message-ID: Brad, a SSRVEXCEPT crash in most cases makes the current image a possible suspect. The current process seems to be running a privileged software called HyperSPI. This software has been developed in the OpenVMS V6.x time-frame and is supposed to work on V7.1 - according to it's WEB page. Running this software - based on an un-documented and therefore un-supported interface EXE$GETSPI - is for the adventurers... Did you rebuild this image from sources ? Any error messages ? Did you use this software before on other versions of OpenVMS ? The system crashes immediately following a call into SPISHR, an OpenVMS shareable library. There is a saved return address in R26. In the dump, try SDA> EXA/INS 7B456B0C-40;60 If you think this software should work and not crash the system, further analysis of the SYSDUMP.DMP file may be necessary. Volker. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 06:56:33 -0800 (PST) From: Volker Halle Subject: Re: SSRVEXCEPT, Unexpected system service exception Message-ID: <855da7ca-37ba-420b-b252-1f598224ab72@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com> Brad, there is a new SPISHR.EXE in the VMS83A_MONTOR-V0100 kit. It's worth a try to see, if this problem may disappear with the most recent SPIRSHR.EXE image. Volker. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 01:36:19 +1030 From: Mark Daniel Subject: Re: SSRVEXCEPT, Unexpected system service exception Message-ID: <13m2ikjl8lmpmb5@corp.supernews.com> Volker Halle wrote: > Brad, > > a SSRVEXCEPT crash in most cases makes the current image a possible > suspect. The current process seems to be running a privileged software Neither the data collection agent or the display application require either account or INSTALLed privileges. > called HyperSPI. This software has been developed in the OpenVMS V6.x > time-frame and is supposed to work on V7.1 - according to it's WEB Personally, I have it running on three systems currently at V7.3-2 without issue. I do not have it in a V8.n environment. > page. Running this software - based on an un-documented and therefore > un-supported interface EXE$GETSPI - is for the adventurers... Eryup. Both the read-me and agent source code note this, and It utilizes the undocumented EXE$GETSPI interface. Interface details plagiarized (and extensively reworked) from a VMS X Window System utility named SPI. > Did you rebuild this image from sources ? Any error messages ? > Did you use this software before on other versions of OpenVMS ? > > The system crashes immediately following a call into SPISHR, an > OpenVMS shareable library. There is a saved return address in R26. In > the dump, try > > SDA> EXA/INS 7B456B0C-40;60 > > If you think this software should work and not crash the system, Surely no user-mode, non-privileged application *should* crash the system? You would hope at worst it might bugcheck itself, not the whole shebang! :-) > further analysis of the SYSDUMP.DMP file may be necessary. > > Volker. -- It seems to me what is called for is an exquisite balance between two conflicting needs: the most skeptical scrutiny of all hypotheses that are served up to us and at the same time a great openness to new ideas … If you are only skeptical, then no new ideas make it through to you … On the other hand, if you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an ounce of skeptical sense in you, then you cannot distinguish the useful ideas from the worthless ones. [Carl Sagan; The Burden of Skepticism] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:44:36 -0800 (PST) From: Volker Halle Subject: Re: SSRVEXCEPT, Unexpected system service exception Message-ID: <14b3a486-3c73-4570-9818-7f1b1cc771d6@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com> Mark, thanks for providing additional information about this tool ;-) I had a look at the source code and also tried a standalone example (FREEWARE_V5:[SRH_EXAMPLES]I_SPI.C) for the EXE$GETSPI call on V8.3 (with VMS83A_UPDATE-V0400 installed) with just TMPMBX and NETMBX. It works and does not crash. Now trying to convince HP that using an undocumented and unsupported interface from user mode may create a system crash, is another challenge. Brad, please try the most recent SPISHR.EXE available from VMS83A_MONTOR- V0100 first. Did the crash happen immediately after starting HYPERSPI $AGENT ? Or did it work for a while and then crashed ? $ ANAL/CRASH dumpfile SDA> exa/time ctl$gq_login Volker. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2007 08:42:47 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Unix for VMS guys Message-ID: <2lWu5dk9H431@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <5sacmiF17o5oaU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > I have, repeatedly!! For those who prefer a simple editor to work > with the password file Unix has provided the "vipw" command since > BSD 4.0 (October 1980). It handles locking the password system and, > since the advent of shadow passwords, handles them as well. Beyond > that, there are any of a number of different GUI methods and even > simple batch mode systems for adding, deleting or modifying the users > on a system. And a simple google search will show that I stated > this at the very beginning of this thread!! The last time I did vipw on a Solaris box the shadow password for the new account could not be created by any command that "man -k pass" could find, and existing accounts could not update thier own passwords until a more Solaris savy admin spent some time cleaning up. All I did in vipw was add one line with a new name, UID, and login path. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:04:25 -0800 (PST) From: IanMiller Subject: VMS Audio Update - Episode #14 Message-ID: <15dd1a3f-e536-4b6c-a215-748dfe8d5b25@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com> In this episode, we'll cover some of the news highlights from since the last update, get a segment from Guy Peleg about embracing Itanium, and get some magic nostalgia and positive comments on the past and future of VMS from Bruce Ellis. http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=07/12/12/4781764 OpenVMS.Org always wants to hear from people willing to contribute to the podcast or companies willing to sponsor an episode. Contact us via http://www.openvms.org/feedback ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 05:30:08 -0800 (PST) From: Joe Sewell Subject: Re: What causes a STKOVF Message-ID: <57098cd0-9c95-4a31-8b79-41d5c7a8719c@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com> On Dec 10, 12:00 pm, Volker Halle wrote: > Joe, > > you'll get a STKOVF (instead of just an ACCVIO), if the process is > running a Thread Manager (like PTHREADs) or you're not running on the > process's initial kernel thread. Use SDA> SHOW PROC/IMA to see, > whether PTHREAD$RTL is in the image list. I'll bet it is for a > DECwindows image. > > Check the stack pointer SP with DBG> EX SP > > then examine the stack addresses and limits > > DBG> SDA > SDA> EXA ctl$aq_stack;20 > SDA> EXA ctl$aq_stacklim;20 > > SDA will show 1 quadword for each stack (offset 0=kernel, then exec, > super, user) > > Try to figure out, if the current SP is near the limits (or outside) > the stack. > > Volker. Thanks for the info; I'll do this. You say that you wouldn't be surprised if a DECwindows image is multithreaded. I cannot speak for what DECwindows itself is doing, but *we* aren't multithreading it. On the other hand, I *do* see PTHREAD $RTL high up in the call stack. Assuming DECwindows is instigating multithreading (or perhaps the X11R6 update -- that makes Xt "thread safe" -- does just enough to kick this in), then much is explained. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.682 ************************