INFO-VAX Tue, 09 Oct 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 551 Contents: Re: European OpenVMS Technical Update Days Re: European OpenVMS Technical Update Days Re: European OpenVMS Technical Update Days Re: European OpenVMS Technical Update Days Re: European OpenVMS Technical Update Days Log file management ( 32768 version limit) Re: Log file management ( 32768 version limit) Re: Log file management ( 32768 version limit) Re: Newbie guide to NFS between MAC and VMS Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever Re: OT: Powerpoint and Microsoft security ! Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax? Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax? Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax? Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax? TCPIP SMTP receiver issues (SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS) Re: TCPIP SMTP receiver issues (SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS) Re: TCPIP SMTP receiver issues (SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS) Re: TCPIP SMTP receiver issues (SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS) UNIX equivalent of VMS group logicals? Re: UNIX equivalent of VMS group logicals? Re: UNIX equivalent of VMS group logicals? Re: UNIX equivalent of VMS group logicals? Re: UNIX equivalent of VMS group logicals? Re: UNIX equivalent of VMS group logicals? Re: UNIX equivalent of VMS group logicals? Re: UNIX equivalent of VMS group logicals? Re: UNIX equivalent of VMS group logicals? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 11:03:00 -0700 From: deano Subject: Re: European OpenVMS Technical Update Days Message-ID: <1191866580.250914.318990@o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Oct 8, 7:58 am, Neil Rieck wrote: > On Oct 7, 8:16 am, Sue wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Newsgroup, > > > I am sitting at Heathrow airport waiting for my flight to be called > > reflecting on the last two weeks in Europe. > > > So I thought I would try and work with an English keyboard and try and > > give you an update. > > > Every country has their own keyboard so its a series of mistakes for > > me but itdoes provide yet another excuse for bad spelling. \its funny > > but every year I think that the TUD's will not get better and they do. > > I have also noticed that VMS culture is very similar in every country > > even though there are small differences. I really wish that you had a > > chance to all meet each other it would be so exciting. We were in > > Germany, Netherlands and Sweden and were pretty much full in each > > location. > > > If I am honest the team was excellent from HP and then partners in > > Germany Guy P was there from Bruden as well as Andre and then in > > \netherlands Colin B was there and then in Sweden Guy was back so > > there was a star studded speaker list not to mention blades > > sessions. > > > We also went to a college in Germany where Andy G spoke there were > > 50-60 people including 10 customers, he spoke for 2 or so hours and > > they loved what he said. We have a VMS user there who worked with the > > user group to coordinate it was awesome. > > > Gotta go sorry, you would have loved it. > > sue > > Sue. This Canadian of German decent is glad to hear that you're still > promoting OpenVMS on the continent that produced Linux. Good luck to > you and your team. > > p.s. Aren't they currently celebrating Oktoberfest in Munich? :-) > > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, > Ontario, Canada.http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.htmlhttp://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Hi Sue, VMS forever, enjoy your trips.. Model 19 teletype!! we ham radio operators used to use them for radio teletype (RTTY). ancient but they worked great. ------------------------------ Date: 8 Oct 2007 18:10:25 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: European OpenVMS Technical Update Days Message-ID: <5mva4hFfgdlkU1@mid.individual.net> In article <1191866580.250914.318990@o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, deano writes: > > Model 19 teletype!! we ham radio operators used to use them for > radio teletype (RTTY). ancient but they worked great. "Model 19"? What's that? I had a Lorenz LO15. And after writting a driver (in Z80 Assembler) it doubled as my first printer, too. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:59:50 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: European OpenVMS Technical Update Days Message-ID: On 10/08/07 08:07, Richard B. Gilbert wrote: [snip] > > I learned to type on an "MC88" telegrapher's keyboard. I subsequently > used model 19, 26, 33 and 35 teletype, model 26 and model 29 card punch, > IBM Selectric and enough others that I now just look at the damned thing > and adapt! Did you burn your toes? -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:59:12 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: European OpenVMS Technical Update Days Message-ID: <470AE070.4060703@comcast.net> Ron Johnson wrote: > On 10/08/07 08:07, Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > [snip] > >>I learned to type on an "MC88" telegrapher's keyboard. I subsequently >>used model 19, 26, 33 and 35 teletype, model 26 and model 29 card punch, >>IBM Selectric and enough others that I now just look at the damned thing >>and adapt! > > > Did you burn your toes? > Sorry, you lost me! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 23:07:51 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: European OpenVMS Technical Update Days Message-ID: On 10/08/07 20:59, Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > Ron Johnson wrote: >> On 10/08/07 08:07, Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >> [snip] >> >>> I learned to type on an "MC88" telegrapher's keyboard. I subsequently >>> used model 19, 26, 33 and 35 teletype, model 26 and model 29 card punch, >>> IBM Selectric and enough others that I now just look at the damned thing >>> and adapt! >> >> >> Did you burn your toes? >> > > Sorry, you lost me! The earth was pretty hot way back in the Paleoarchean era... -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:50:00 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Log file management ( 32768 version limit) Message-ID: The TCPIP RECEIVER creates a new log file for every incoming email attempt. The TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.COM procedure has logic to purge its own log files, but it has no logic to deal with version limit issues. I would like to automate this in as generic a way as possible. My initial thoughts are just to add code (or invoke an external procedure) that check if version limit is greater than say 32000 and then purge down to say 500 versions (to handle cases where a directory may not have version limits), and then proceeed to rename each one in proper order starting at version 1. (this code would be generic and be used for any command procedure or heck, even in sylogin.com for batch or network mode :-). Questions: Can a command procedure obtain the exact full file specification of its output file ? Can the command procedure rename its own log file to an earlier version, or would this fail because the file is in use ? (in which case, the command procedures would just submit the cleanup code to a batch queue instead of doing the cleanup themselves.) Any ideas on how to handle two processes running the same .COM and writing to different .LOG to ensure that only one of the two would perform a cleanup at a time ? Each could create a temporary file to as a poor man's lock, but this has issues should the procedure fail leaving a stray file there. Logical names that can be shared between processes require privileges. Any other ideas on how to have one process signal to another that it is handling a job (in DCL) without requiring any privileges ? Can unprivileged use JDOE create a logical name table owned by JDOE so that any JDOE process can read/write to it ? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 20:15:52 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Log file management ( 32768 version limit) Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > > The TCPIP RECEIVER creates a new log file for every incoming email > attempt. The TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.COM procedure has logic to purge its > own log files, but it has no logic to deal with version limit issues. > > I would like to automate this in as generic a way as possible. > > > My initial thoughts are just to add code (or invoke an external > procedure) that check if version limit is greater than say 32000 and > then purge down to say 500 versions (to handle cases where a directory > may not have version limits), and then proceeed to rename each one in > proper order starting at version 1. > > (this code would be generic and be used for any command procedure or > heck, even in sylogin.com for batch or network mode :-). > > Questions: > > Can a command procedure obtain the exact full file specification of its > output file ? > > Can the command procedure rename its own log file to an earlier version, > or would this fail because the file is in use ? (in which case, the > command procedures would just submit the cleanup code to a batch queue > instead of doing the cleanup themselves.) > > Any ideas on how to handle two processes running the same .COM and > writing to different .LOG to ensure that only one of the two would > perform a cleanup at a time ? Each could create a temporary file to as > a poor man's lock, but this has issues should the procedure fail leaving > a stray file there. Logical names that can be shared between processes > require privileges. Any other ideas on how to have one process signal to > another that it is handling a job (in DCL) without requiring any > privileges ? > > Can unprivileged use JDOE create a logical name table owned by JDOE so > that any JDOE process can read/write to it ? > For the SMTP RECV logs in particular, there is no real need of them, so I just let the version "hit the roof" and let it be like that. It (as you wrote) does not stop the SMTP server from running or processing received mails. If there is an actual problem to investigate, one can always delete all logs and just ask the sender to resend the "problem-mail"... > in which case, the command procedures would just submit > the cleanup code... Why would one need to run the cleanup code for *each* run of the batch job ? Just let the versions numbers grow and run the cleanup code nightly or weekly (or whatever, depending on how fast the version numbers grow). I have a similar case where a few 1000s of LOG's are created each day and each night they are renumbered back to ;1, ;2... After an PURGE/BEF=YESTERDAY to keep two days of logs. The "renumber" is done using two RENAMES commands and is run on the same batch queue as the original jobs and thus "blocking" any new LOG files during processing. Must have been running each night for well over 5 years now... Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 16:40:15 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Log file management ( 32768 version limit) Message-ID: <07100816401517_20200296@antinode.org> From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= > For the SMTP RECV logs in particular, there is no real need of them, > so I just let the version "hit the roof" and let it be like that. > It (as you wrote) does not stop the SMTP server from running or > processing received mails. If there is an actual problem to > investigate, one can always delete all logs and just ask the > sender to resend the "problem-mail"... On the other hand, keeping, say, the last 1000 log files allows one to look for recent problems/annoyances, not all of which may be easy to reproduce. > > in which case, the command procedures would just submit > > the cleanup code... > Why would one need to run the cleanup code for *each* run > of the batch job ? Just let the versions numbers grow and > run the cleanup code nightly or weekly (or whatever, > depending on how fast the version numbers grow). Perhaps the procedure which makes the log file could look for a high version number, and run the version shifter when the highest version gets high enough. Knowing "how fast the version numbers grow" before it's too late may be difficult. It's probably also a good idea to avoid having two version shifters running at the same time. It's probably also a good idea to write the version shifter so that it can deal with new (high) file versions being created while it's shifting. And/or being able to cope with gaps in the version numbers. Coping with this particular design flaw in TCPIP-SMTP (and others) is a non-trivial task. My current solution seems to work, but it's not what I'd call elegant. (Some day, SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP]TCPIP$FTP_RUN.LOG will probably overflow, too, for example. And how many others? Any outside of TCPIP? Seems unlikely in a generally well designed OS.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:54:11 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Newbie guide to NFS between MAC and VMS Message-ID: <73afa$470adf45$cef8887a$31488@TEKSAVVY.COM> Thanks to a kind soul who emailed me a link to some mac tech notes, I have tried to mount a VMS disk on the mac in a different way. On BRAKES (the mac at 10.0.0.20), I am user "pastry", gid=501 groups=501 On CHAIN (the alpha at 10.0.0.11) : $ tcpip show proxy VMS User_name Type User_ID Group_ID Host_name SYSTEM OND 501 501 10.0.0.20 Question: Is it correct to assume from the above that pastry on BRAKES trying to mount a drive on CHAIN would automatically have whatever file permissions that SYSTEM would have on CHAIN ? (aka: sysprv etc) ???? -------------------------------------- TCPIP> show map Dynamic Filesystem Map Pathname Logical File System /disk2 $11$DQB0: TCPIP> show export File System Host name /disk2/users/pastry BRAKES.ViXeNATION.CA -------------------------------------------- Now, on BRAKES, (the mac), I try the following: > brakes:~ PASTRY$ sudo mount 10.0.0.11:/disk2/users/pastry/ /private/mnt > Password: > mount_nfs: can't access /disk2/users/pastry/: Permission denied The resulting OPCOM message on CHAIN is: > %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 8-OCT-2007 21:44:17.48 %%%%%%%%%%% > Message from user TCPIP$NFS on CHAIN > %TCPIP-E-NFS_BFSCAL, operation MOUNT_POINT failed on file /disk2/users/pastry/ What I am trying hard to do is to get the MAC to have access to user "pastry"'s SYS$LOGIN directory on VMS (and whatever is below it). Am not interested in some container file system. Should the SHOW MAP and SHOW EXPORT allow this to happen ? Are both required to allow an NFS client to get to VMS file system ? (as opposed to a container file system). Now, the mac gets permission denied, but if it gets mapped to SYSTEM, shouldn't SYSTEM have access to any/all files on the VMS host ? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:08:10 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever Message-ID: In article , Michael Kraemer wrote: > Jan-Erik Söderholm schrieb: > >> > >> But OpenVMS is a server platform, not a client, right? :\ > > At least not a *desktop* client platform. But that's nothing > > new about that, is there ? > > Funny. When I had my VMS term (OK, many moons ago), > it was pitched as a cool desktop OS as opposed to dull mainframes. The first proper desktop I had was a VAXstation 2000, but running VWS rather than DECwindows, since I wanted to get some work done with it:-) My usage was to be able to have separate windows displayed for the source, the compiler listing and the running program display, and possibly when necessary the debugger, and I found it much more productive than a couple of VTs (only 1 VT slowed me down too much). -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:14:13 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever Message-ID: In article <_OeOi.13369$495.245@newsfe22.lga>, Ron Johnson wrote: > On 10/07/07 04:09, Michael Kraemer wrote: > > JF Mezei schrieb: > > > >> In fairness to that IA64 contraption, one can configure an IA64 server > >> as a workstation (add graphics card, monitor, keyboard, mouse) and > >> then run X windows on it. > > > > Well, IMHO a workstation is sth which is living-room- and > > wife-compatible. I'm not sure a redeclared server with > > its noise level and power consumption qualifies as such. > > > >> And yes, X windows is still being made available for VMS. What is > >> lacking for that IA64 thing is VMS support for sound. (useful for > >> mission critical applications such as air traffic control). > > > > What for ? > > Hmmm. Why ever would an air traffic controller want an alarm to go > off if a plane: > > 1. got too close to another plane, > 2. was approaching at too steep an angle, > 3. was approaching too low an angle, > 4. was approaching too fast, > 5. was approaching too slow, > 6. got too near the end of the runway, > 7. left it's designated flight path, > 8. slowed down too much, > 9. sped up too much, > 10. indicated "running on fumes", > 11. indicated "engine fire", > 12. indicated "hijack alert", > 13. indicated medical emergency, > 14. etc, etc, etc, etc. > > > > To make the appropriate sound whenever planes crash ? There's also this: http://www.heise.de/ct/schlagseite/03/01/gross.jpg Sorry it's in German: New device found Device:Airbus310 Start autoconfiguration? - Start/stop -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:56:14 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever Message-ID: In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > http://tmesis.com/powerpuke.html I have embedded the video in a bit of HTML so that it doesn't need Javascript. It still needs Flash of course. http://sture.ch/chicken.html -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:33:35 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever Message-ID: P. Sture wrote: > > My usage was to be able to have separate windows displayed for the > source, the compiler listing and the running program display, and > possibly when necessary the debugger, and I found it much more > productive than a couple of VTs (only 1 VT slowed me down too much). > Reminds me of one of the presentations at the VMS Tech Update last week. It was about "Distributed NetBeans" which is a (as I understod it) popular software development environment. The tool itself is written in 100% Java, but can have plugins for just about any language. What the VMS group at HP has done, is to write plugins for all the popular VMS languages. (Bliss and one more was currently missing.) The usual way of running NetBeans is on a Windows workstation and through the "Distributed" part from HP one can compile, debug and test the code on the VMS server. As I understood it, they have written server tools and plugins so the edit/compile/debug can be run completely inside the integrated environment. One can run DCL scripts (or any other "command") directly from the NetBeans environment. Note, I do not know very much about NetBeans as such... http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/netbeans/distnb.html Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 22:24:33 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever Message-ID: In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: > > >P. Sture wrote: > >> >> My usage was to be able to have separate windows displayed for the >> source, the compiler listing and the running program display, and >> possibly when necessary the debugger, and I found it much more >> productive than a couple of VTs (only 1 VT slowed me down too much). >> > >Reminds me of one of the presentations at the VMS Tech Update >last week. It was about "Distributed NetBeans" which is a (as >I understod it) popular software development environment. The >tool itself is written in 100% Java, but can have plugins for >just about any language. What the VMS group at HP has done, >is to write plugins for all the popular VMS languages. >(Bliss and one more was currently missing.) Unless there is a Macro-32 plug-in, it's completely useless to me. ;) -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 22:21:31 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever Message-ID: In article <1191857468.306034.293790@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>, "David P. Murphy" writes: > > >On Oct 7, 7:28 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > >> I've got a VAXstation 3100M76 sitting here somewhere. >> Also a VAXstation 4000-96 which, for a VAX, was a snappy box. > >Surely it would be easier for you to list the models >you *don't* own, or at least used to. > >It's not called "the VaxCave" for nothing, you know! I've found homes for quite a few models I used to have. One regular poster here has my MicroVAX-11 in the BA123. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:54:45 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever Message-ID: On 10/08/07 08:08, Tom Linden wrote: > On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 02:37:24 -0700, JF Mezei > wrote: > >> Michael Kraemer wrote: >>> So you really think a control workstation should play >>> a different tune (ring tones come to mind) for each of these incidents ? >>> A couple of 'beep's which every X-terminal should be capable of >>> would be sufficient I guess. >> >> >> CAE used to base its flight simulators on VMS.(They are long gone from >> VMS). For them, sound is critical because in a cockpit, you have many >> different alarm tones (and now voices) to alert of different situations. > > Guess which high-level language they were written in. Bliss-32 !!!!! -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 03:32:22 +0200 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever Message-ID: Jan-Erik Söderholm schrieb: > > The usual way of running NetBeans is on a Windows workstation > and through the "Distributed" part from HP one can compile, > debug and test the code on the VMS server. Seems more like another sign of decline to me. VMS needing a windoze box to produce its own software. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:21:22 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: OT: Powerpoint and Microsoft security ! Message-ID: In article , Ron Johnson wrote: > On 10/05/07 21:35, David J Dachtera wrote: > > JF Mezei wrote: > > Can PPTs be hacked? Probably, but that was likely not the case in this > > instance. Likely as not, the speaker forgot about WhineBloze's > > eagerness to "help" the user... > > I'm sure that GNOME & KDE can be configured for similar "generosity". > It's been a while, but when I was running Gnome/KDE, I had the Explorer set up to display thumbnails of photos i found in a folder. It generated the thumbnails itself (as I discovered when backing the thing up once - I grabbed the thumbnails instead of the full size photos and lost some good pics). -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 22:44:52 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax? Message-ID: On 10/08/07 09:04, ultradwc@gmail.com wrote: > On Oct 7, 11:02 pm, Neil Rieck wrote: >> On Oct 4, 12:40 pm, JF Mezei wrote: >> >>> Question: >>> In my mind, a religious person has always been a compassionate person >>> willing to share wealth, help others, live a good honest life and make >>> sure to protect god's creations (wether humans or animals or the planet). >>> How come in the USA, religious persons are most often associated with >>> the exact opposite ? right wing conservatives who want wars that kill >>> hundreds of thousands of humans, help large business instead of helping >>> the poor, don't care about polluting the planet etc ? >>> Or is it a case of religious persons in the USA supporting one party >>> that is 99% against what they believe in just because the agree with the >>> remaining 1% (abortion) ? >> True Christians are non-violent evangelists but many North American >> Christians are obsessed with escatology and other end-time nonsense. >> They think it is OK to destroy the Earth because Christ will return >> soon and make everything right. > > you been following revelation lately? > > 1. when Israel becomes a nation again, the time of the > gentiles will be fulfilled ... 1948 It (Christ's Return) was supposed to happen within 1 generation of 1948. That's 25-30 years. It's been 60. > 2. He will gather the jews from the all over the world back, > and from the land of the north (Moscow, Russia) ... 1988 > the Berlin wall falls as well as communism and since then > over 2 million jews have left for Israel ... Well, ok. You're right about that one. > 3. wars and rumors of wars ... world war I, II, korean, vietnam, > Iraq 1, Iraq 2, plus many others smaller ones ... Iran? > Israel and Syria? Humans have been fighting wars since the beginning of civilization. > 4. children disrespectful to their elders ... happening ... I've read similar complaints from the 18th and 19th centuries. Even from classical Greece. > 5. earthquakes in divers places ... happening and increasing ... Earthquakes where people go SCUBA swimming? Oh, my! Earthquakes along fault zones? Shocking! Recording more earthquakes because we've got more (and more sensitive) seismographs spread across the world? Amazing! > 6. old roman empire reforms ... EU Somehow, I don't see Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libia, Egypt, Israel, Jordan and Syria joining the EU. > 7. a failing away from the church ... happening And a damned good thing, too. > when you see these signs, look up, for your redemption is near ... > > Daniel, Isaiah and other prophecies in the bible confirm > revelation ... Paul expected the return 1,940 years ago. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 22:49:53 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax? Message-ID: On 10/08/07 08:19, Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > Bob Koehler wrote: >> In article <4705367C.9010302@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" >> writes: >> >> >>> Dwight Eisenhower was the last president I had any respect for. >> >> >> You know, I'm a life-long Democrat and I didn't care for a lot of >> things Regan did, nor how he did them, but I give him credit for >> ending the cold war and respect for that. >> >> Too bad W is leting the cold war restart. >> > > Too bad that Dubya allowed himself to be sucked into the Iraq quagmire. > Thank God that he can't succeed himself! I'm a lifelong Republican > but if Dick Cheney runs for President, I'll switch parties in a > microsecond! Oh puh-leeze. The guy's got a heart condition and is almost as polarizing as Hillary. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 22:57:58 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax? Message-ID: On 10/08/07 08:10, Bob Koehler wrote: > In article , JF Mezei writes: >> How come in the USA, religious persons are most often associated with >> the exact opposite ? right wing conservatives who want wars that kill >> hundreds of thousands of humans, help large business instead of helping >> the poor, don't care about polluting the planet etc ? > > i.e. why isn't conservation a conservative principle? Why did a > man get fired from being a conservative religious leader when he > tried to teach that we must take action on ecological issues to > protect God's Earth? > > A recent study discussed in the Washington Post provides some > clue: conservatives tend to follow the notion that there is one > right answer and one right way for all issues, liberals tend to feel > that some issues are not so black-and-white. That's the problem with modern liberals. They don't *think*, they *feel*. But then again, most Conservatives don't think either. They just *feel* different things about different issues than liberals do. > So when something new comes along, even strong evidence that past > ideas were wrong or not all-encoimpassing, conservatives have a harder > time adding it to their beliefs. Pre-concieved notions rule the > conservative mind. It's called "sticking with the tried and true", whereas liberal activists want to remake society over and over, based on pie-in- the-sky feel-good theories. > But the most liberal thinkers of 200 years ago are the champions of > the conservative cause, even though they don't always understand or > agree with the level of change those liberals fought for. See the previous paragraph regarding "tried and true". -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 07:48:23 +0200 From: "Rudolf Wingert" Subject: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax? Message-ID: <004e01c80a38$01704380$994614ac@domina.fom> Hello, I think, that the global warming is not a hoax. But the question is: = what's the part of mankind and what is normal (we did have a lot of Ice Ages = and times where it was very warm). Regardless of reason, we (the mankind) = should do, what we can do to prevent the earth. AFAIK God's will is, that the whole mankind becomes believer. So = Christians should live that this will be seen. IMHO, they have to do, all what they = can do to prevent the earth. What could it be? Don't use your car if you = can. Buy less powerful PCs. Don't support wars, etc. Search for the best way = to stop the global warming. Best regards Rudolf Wingert ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:17:47 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: TCPIP SMTP receiver issues (SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS) Message-ID: <18c03$470a825e$cef8887a$789@TEKSAVVY.COM> Investigating while I wasn't getting emails from a specific store, I first found that my TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG log files were at version 32767 ... :-( so no new logfiles were being created (but I am still receiving new mail though , interesting development !) Once I fixed this, the first incoming email got the following: TCPIP/VMS version info: V5.6-9, OpenVMS V8.3 Alpha SMTP_RECV_MAIL: local name is chain.vaxination.ca SMTP_RECV_MAIL: calling socket(TCPIP$C_AUXS) SMTP_RECV_MAIL: socket: 3 SMTP_RECV_MAIL: getpeername failed: vaxc$errno: %SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS, maximum netwo rk logical links exceeded %SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS, maximum network logical links exceeded TCPIP$SMTP job terminated at 8-OCT-2007 14:51:36.75 Does anyone know which TCPIP/BIND/whatever parameter would be needed to increase the number of permissible links ? (this appears to have happened while the receiver wanted to DNS lookup the IP address of the remote SMTP sender). (this appears to have been a sporadic thing though). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 19:24:03 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: TCPIP SMTP receiver issues (SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS) Message-ID: In article <18c03$470a825e$cef8887a$789@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: > Investigating while I wasn't getting emails from a specific store, I > first found that my TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG log files were at version > 32767 ... :-( so no new logfiles were being created (but I am still > receiving new mail though , interesting development !) From my nightly batch job: $ @ CLUSTER_MANAGER:LOWER_VERSIONS.COM - DISK$ALPHASYS_3:[SYS0.TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG (See below for the code, handy in other places as well.) I get up to 5000 or 6000 in a day. > SMTP_RECV_MAIL: getpeername failed: vaxc$errno: %SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS, I asked the same question here a while back. ---------8<------------------------------------------------------------------- $ IF P1 .EQS. "" .OR. F$ELEMENT(1,";",P1) .NES. ";" .OR. - F$LOCATE("*",P1) .NES. F$LENGTH(P1) .OR. - F$LOCATE("%",P1) .NES. F$LENGTH(P1) - THEN GOTO USAGE $ LV := SYS$SCRATCH:LV.TMP $ DIR/NOHEA/NOTRAI/OUT='LV' 'P1' $ CLOSE/NOLOG LV $ OPEN/READ LV 'LV' $ I = 0 $LOOP1: $ READ/END=DONE1 LV FILENAME $ I = I + 1 $ FILENAME'I' = FILENAME $GOTO LOOP1 $DONE1: $ CLOSE/NOLOG LV $ DELETE 'LV';* $ J = 0 $LOOP2: $ J = J + 1 $ RENAME/LOG &FILENAME'I' 'F$ELEMENT(0,";",FILENAME)';'J' ! quick hack $ I = I - 1 $ IF I .EQ. 0 THEN GOTO DONE2 $GOTO LOOP2 $DONE2: $ EXIT $USAGE: $ TYPE SYS$INPUT P1 (required): name of file (no wildcards, no version numbers) This procedure will rename file ;N to ;1, ;N+1 to ;2 etc (N: lowest version) $ EXIT ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 15:44:40 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: TCPIP SMTP receiver issues (SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS) Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 006C75868525736E_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote on 10/08/2007 03:24:03 PM: > In article <18c03$470a825e$cef8887a$789@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei > writes: > > > Investigating while I wasn't getting emails from a specific store, I > > first found that my TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG log files were at version > > 32767 ... :-( so no new logfiles were being created (but I am still > > receiving new mail though , interesting development !) > > From my nightly batch job: > > $ @ CLUSTER_MANAGER:LOWER_VERSIONS.COM - > DISK$ALPHASYS_3:[SYS0.TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG > > (See below for the code, handy in other places as well.) I get up to > 5000 or 6000 in a day. > > > SMTP_RECV_MAIL: getpeername failed: vaxc$errno: %SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS, > > I asked the same question here a while back. > > ---------8<------------------------------------------------------------------- > > $ IF P1 .EQS. "" .OR. F$ELEMENT(1,";",P1) .NES. ";" .OR. - > F$LOCATE("*",P1) .NES. F$LENGTH(P1) .OR. - > F$LOCATE("%",P1) .NES. F$LENGTH(P1) - > THEN GOTO USAGE > $ LV := SYS$SCRATCH:LV.TMP > $ DIR/NOHEA/NOTRAI/OUT='LV' 'P1' > $ CLOSE/NOLOG LV > $ OPEN/READ LV 'LV' > $ I = 0 > $LOOP1: > $ READ/END=DONE1 LV FILENAME > $ I = I + 1 > $ FILENAME'I' = FILENAME > $GOTO LOOP1 > $DONE1: > $ CLOSE/NOLOG LV > $ DELETE 'LV';* > $ J = 0 > $LOOP2: > $ J = J + 1 > $ RENAME/LOG &FILENAME'I' 'F$ELEMENT(0,";",FILENAME)';'J' ! quick hack > $ I = I - 1 > $ IF I .EQ. 0 THEN GOTO DONE2 > $GOTO LOOP2 > $DONE2: > $ EXIT > $USAGE: > $ TYPE SYS$INPUT > > P1 (required): name of file (no wildcards, no version numbers) > > This procedure will rename file ;N to ;1, ;N+1 to ;2 etc (N: lowest version) > $ EXIT > Couldn't you make use of the fact that FILENAME.TYP;-0 is the lowest version? What will this do if there are actually 32767 files extant? --=_alternative 006C75868525736E_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"



helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote on 10/08/2007 03:24:03 PM:

> In article <18c03$470a825e$cef8887a$789@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei
> <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:
>
> > Investigating while I wasn't getting emails from a specific store, I
> > first found that my TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG log files were at version
> > 32767 ... :-( so no new logfiles were being created (but I am still
> > receiving new mail though , interesting development !)
>
> From my nightly batch job:
>
> $  @ CLUSTER_MANAGER:LOWER_VERSIONS.COM -
>     DISK$ALPHASYS_3:[SYS0.TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG
>
> (See below for the code, handy in other places as well.)  I get up to
> 5000 or 6000 in a day.
>
> > SMTP_RECV_MAIL: getpeername failed: vaxc$errno: %SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS,
>
> I asked the same question here a while back.
>
> ---------8<-------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> $  IF P1 .EQS. "" .OR. F$ELEMENT(1,";",P1) NES. ";"  .OR. -
>     F$LOCATE("*",P1) .NES. F$LENGTH(P1)               .OR. -
>     F$LOCATE("%",P1) .NES. F$LENGTH(P1)                    -
>     THEN GOTO USAGE
> $  LV := SYS$SCRATCH:LV.TMP
> $  DIR/NOHEA/NOTRAI/OUT='LV' 'P1'
> $  CLOSE/NOLOG LV
> $  OPEN/READ LV 'LV'
> $  I = 0
> $LOOP1:
> $  READ/END=DONE1 LV FILENAME
> $  I = I + 1
> $  FILENAME'I' = FILENAME
> $GOTO LOOP1
> $DONE1:
> $  CLOSE/NOLOG LV
> $  DELETE 'LV';*
> $  J = 0
> $LOOP2:
> $  J = J + 1
> $  RENAME/LOG &FILENAME'I' 'F$ELEMENT(0,";",FILENAME)';'J' ! quick hack
> $  I = I - 1
> $  IF I .EQ. 0 THEN GOTO DONE2
> $GOTO LOOP2
> $DONE2:
> $  EXIT
> $USAGE:
> $  TYPE SYS$INPUT
>
> P1 (required):  name of file (no wildcards, no version numbers)
>
> This procedure will rename file ;N to ;1, ;N+1 to ;2 etc (N: lowest version)
> $  EXIT
>
Couldn't you make use of the fact that FILENAME.TYP;-0 is the lowest version?

What will this do if there are actually 32767 files extant? --=_alternative 006C75868525736E_=-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 20:24:15 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: TCPIP SMTP receiver issues (SYSTEM-F-NOLINKS) Message-ID: In article , norm.raphael@metso.com writes: > Couldn't you make use of the fact that FILENAME.TYP;-0 is the lowest > version? Probably. On the other hand, a) it was just a quick hack and b) it is possible that ;-0 gets purged while the procedure is running. > What will this do if there are actually 32767 files extant? I execute it once a day and only get up to about 5000.... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 12:56:29 -0700 From: Mike Subject: UNIX equivalent of VMS group logicals? Message-ID: <1191873389.045301.188670@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com> We have a bunch of in-house applications written in C, running on Alpha OpenVMS V8.3. These applications use the system service sys $trnlnm to read group logicals, which contain options controlling their behaviour (e.g. logging level verbosity). The logicals can be changed on the command line by privileged users. We are looking to port some of these applications to Solaris 10, and as a UNIX novice, I am struggling to find something equivalent in Solaris to the OpenVMS group logicals. Can anyone here suggest an equivalent? Mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:56:13 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: UNIX equivalent of VMS group logicals? Message-ID: <470A996D.2020906@comcast.net> Mike wrote: > We have a bunch of in-house applications written in C, running on > Alpha OpenVMS V8.3. These applications use the system service sys > $trnlnm to read group logicals, which contain options controlling > their behaviour (e.g. logging level verbosity). The logicals can be > changed on the command line by privileged users. > > We are looking to port some of these applications to Solaris 10, and > as a UNIX novice, I am struggling to find something equivalent in > Solaris to the OpenVMS group logicals. Can anyone here suggest an > equivalent? > > Mike > Lots of luck Mike! Solaris, or any other Unix/Linux O/S just does NOT work like VMS. VMS and Unix are both Operating Systems and that's about the end of the resemblance!!! Unix does use "signals". You can send a signal to a Unix process that will cause it to reread it's configuration file or something like that. It has been ten or fifteen years since I last did such a thing so the details have (mercifully) faded. ------------------------------ Date: 8 Oct 2007 15:59:14 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: UNIX equivalent of VMS group logicals? Message-ID: <66vfy3x10AF8@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <1191873389.045301.188670@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>, Mike writes: > We have a bunch of in-house applications written in C, running on > Alpha OpenVMS V8.3. These applications use the system service sys > $trnlnm to read group logicals, which contain options controlling > their behaviour (e.g. logging level verbosity). The logicals can be > changed on the command line by privileged users. > > We are looking to port some of these applications to Solaris 10, and > as a UNIX novice, I am struggling to find something equivalent in > Solaris to the OpenVMS group logicals. Can anyone here suggest an > equivalent? Have you tried asking in a Unix newsgroup ? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:15:52 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: UNIX equivalent of VMS group logicals? Message-ID: On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 12:56:29 -0700, Mike wrote: > We have a bunch of in-house applications written in C, running on > Alpha OpenVMS V8.3. These applications use the system service sys > $trnlnm to read group logicals, which contain options controlling > their behaviour (e.g. logging level verbosity). The logicals can be > changed on the command line by privileged users. > > We are looking to port some of these applications to Solaris 10, and > as a UNIX novice, I am struggling to find something equivalent in > Solaris to the OpenVMS group logicals. Can anyone here suggest an > equivalent? > > Mike > I would use some sort of (locking) semafore. -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:02:42 -0800 From: glen herrmannsfeldt Subject: Re: UNIX equivalent of VMS group logicals? Message-ID: Mike wrote: > We have a bunch of in-house applications written in C, running on > Alpha OpenVMS V8.3. These applications use the system service sys > $trnlnm to read group logicals, which contain options controlling > their behaviour (e.g. logging level verbosity). The logicals can be > changed on the command line by privileged users. Unless I am very confused, what you want is related to environment variables in unix. There is no standard for them, but each shell has a systemwide initialization file. That could test on group and execute group specific initializations. -- glen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:17:31 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: UNIX equivalent of VMS group logicals? Message-ID: On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:26:33 -0700, Steven M. Schweda wrote: > From: Mike > >> We have a bunch of in-house applications written in C, running on >> Alpha OpenVMS V8.3. These applications use the system service sys >> $trnlnm to read group logicals, which contain options controlling >> their behaviour (e.g. logging level verbosity). The logicals can be >> changed on the command line by privileged users. >> >> We are looking to port some of these applications to Solaris 10, and >> as a UNIX novice, I am struggling to find something equivalent in >> Solaris to the OpenVMS group logicals. Can anyone here suggest an >> equivalent? > > I doubt it. About the closest thing on UNIX might be environment > variables, which are process-specific, and not easily susceptible to > change from outside. > > I suppose that you could put the data into a file somewhere, and have > the application read the file when it starts. Write permission on that > configuration file could be restricted to your privileged users. If you > need to change things on the fly, then the app could re-read the config > file as needed. > > You might also be able to rig up some shared memory, read-only for > the application, read-write for a (new) control program. Or some other > kind of inter-process communication which could interrogate a (new) > server program which would act as a repository for the info. > > Many things are possible, but if you find anything as nice as logical > names, be sure to let us know. I don't claim exhaustive knowledge, but > I haven't stumbled across anything comparable. Named Stream Pipes. Each pipe can essentially be made to behave like a logical, the other end of the pipe is a server which has a file it reads(writes) which contains the logicals. I think this could be made to mimic the behaviour of logicals quite well, for such a use. Of course, for it to behave like a logical to the shell you would need to get into shell itself. You might also consider using Rexx or Regina instead of bash, or Korn or whatever, as it may have some tricks that will help out. It has been a long while since I last looked at it. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org > 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 > Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 23:29:47 GMT From: Bob Harris Subject: Re: UNIX equivalent of VMS group logicals? Message-ID: In article <1191873389.045301.188670@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>, Mike wrote: > We have a bunch of in-house applications written in C, running on > Alpha OpenVMS V8.3. These applications use the system service sys > $trnlnm to read group logicals, which contain options controlling > their behaviour (e.g. logging level verbosity). The logicals can be > changed on the command line by privileged users. > > We are looking to port some of these applications to Solaris 10, and > as a UNIX novice, I am struggling to find something equivalent in > Solaris to the OpenVMS group logicals. Can anyone here suggest an > equivalent? > > Mike You could use Symbolic Links. The contents of the link does not need to actually be a file path. ln -s "stuff to put in the symlink" /the/symlink/path In scripts you can use the commands 'readlink' or 'ls -l' to get the "stuff from the symlink". In programs you can use the readlink(2) system call to read the current value of the symlink. In programs you can also use the symlink(2) system call to create and modify symlinks. You can write your own users programs to control setting the symlinks with valid parameters, or just use the 'ln -s' command. The 'ls -sf' command would be used to modify an existing symlink. Since symlinks exists in the file system tree, you can structure them anyway you like, similar to Logical Name Tables. You can control access to the symlinks via the ownership and protections applied to the symlink's directory. This is the closest and best analogy for OpenVMS Logicals. Bob Harris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 00:32:45 GMT From: Bob Harris Subject: Re: UNIX equivalent of VMS group logicals? Message-ID: In article , Bob Harris wrote: > In article > <1191873389.045301.188670@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>, > Mike wrote: > > > We have a bunch of in-house applications written in C, running on > > Alpha OpenVMS V8.3. These applications use the system service sys > > $trnlnm to read group logicals, which contain options controlling > > their behaviour (e.g. logging level verbosity). The logicals can be > > changed on the command line by privileged users. > > > > We are looking to port some of these applications to Solaris 10, and > > as a UNIX novice, I am struggling to find something equivalent in > > Solaris to the OpenVMS group logicals. Can anyone here suggest an > > equivalent? > > > > Mike > > You could use Symbolic Links. The contents of the link does not > need to actually be a file path. > > ln -s "stuff to put in the symlink" /the/symlink/path > > In scripts you can use the commands 'readlink' or 'ls -l' to get > the "stuff from the symlink". > > In programs you can use the readlink(2) system call to read the > current value of the symlink. > > In programs you can also use the symlink(2) system call to create > and modify symlinks. > > You can write your own users programs to control setting the > symlinks with valid parameters, or just use the 'ln -s' command. > The 'ls -sf' command would be used to modify an existing symlink. > > Since symlinks exists in the file system tree, you can structure > them anyway you like, similar to Logical Name Tables. You can > control access to the symlinks via the ownership and protections > applied to the symlink's directory. > > This is the closest and best analogy for OpenVMS Logicals. > > Bob Harris minor typo: 'ln -sf' to modify existing symlink ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:14:05 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: UNIX equivalent of VMS group logicals? Message-ID: <470AE3ED.D2421F5B@spam.comcast.net> Mike wrote: > > We have a bunch of in-house applications written in C, running on > Alpha OpenVMS V8.3. These applications use the system service sys > $trnlnm to read group logicals, which contain options controlling > their behaviour (e.g. logging level verbosity). The logicals can be > changed on the command line by privileged users. > > We are looking to port some of these applications to Solaris 10, and > as a UNIX novice, I am struggling to find something equivalent in > Solaris to the OpenVMS group logicals. Can anyone here suggest an > equivalent? As others have mentioned, logical names are rather unique to VMS and its predecessors. Environment symbols, symlinks, disk files, ... these are all potential substitutes. Others probably exist. Though, to answer your question more directly, I believe there is a getenv() function built-into UN*X C that will return the strings/values represented by environment variables. That's about all I know about it. See "man getenv" - that might produce something semi-useful. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.551 ************************