INFO-VAX Fri, 24 Aug 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 464 Contents: Alan Winston, when are you correcting your WASD book? Alan Winston, when are you correcting your WASD book? All Accounting jobs are available here...here...here... Re: COBOL Transactions? Re: COBOL Transactions? Re: COBOL Transactions? Re: COBOL Transactions? Re: COBOL Transactions? Re: COBOL Transactions? Re: COBOL Transactions? Re: COBOL Transactions? Re: COBOL Transactions? Re: COBOL Transactions? Re: COBOL Transactions? Re: COBOL Transactions? Re: COBOL Transactions? Re: COBOL Transactions? Re: COBOL Transactions? Re: COBOL Transactions? Dataoverun on tape Re: Dataoverun on tape Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Logical name translation under Apache Re: Peer review (was Re: Wisconsin professor says global warming a hoax!) Re: Processing Ideas Needed: Re: Using a MacBook pro as a console for an Alphaserver 800 Re: Using a MacBook pro as a console for an Alphaserver 800 Re: VMS 8.3 and TCPIP X.Y: the killer application Volume Shadowing Availability Re: Volume Shadowing Availability Re: Volume Shadowing Availability Re: Volume Shadowing Availability Re: [Slightly off-topic] Using a MacBook pro as a console for an Alphaserver 800 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:25:03 -0700 From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: Alan Winston, when are you correcting your WASD book? Message-ID: <1187976303.792533.209020@l22g2000prc.googlegroups.com> no wonder the WASD SSL compile failed ... my associate after failing with the WASD creators instructions used Alans book ... well it tuns out the instructions in that book how to configure WASD are WRONG ... 4.2.4 states to create a dir such as [WASD] then $ unzip "-v" htrootxxx.zip $ unzip "-v" opensslwasdxxxx well, it should read $ unzip "-v" htrootxxx.zip $ set def [.ht_root] $ inzip "-v" [-]opensslwasdxxx because then the openssl would actually load into [WASD.HT_ROOT.SRC] instead of into [WASD.SRC] ... then the install routine might actually find the openssl source sub dir ... do you give refunds Alan? :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:30:52 -0700 From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: Alan Winston, when are you correcting your WASD book? Message-ID: <1187976652.137170.157490@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com> no wonder the WASD SSL compile failed ... my associate after failing with the WASD creators instructions used Alans book ... well it tuns out the instructions in that book how to configure WASD are WRONG ... 4.2.4 states to create a dir such as [WASD], put the zips into it then $ unzip "-v" htrootxxx.zip $ unzip "-v" opensslwasdxxxx well, it should read $ unzip "-v" htrootxxx.zip $ set def [.ht_root] $ unzip "-v" [-]opensslwasdxxx because then the openssl would actually load into [WASD.HT_ROOT.SRC] instead of into [WASD.SRC] ... then the install routine might actually find the openssl source sub dir ... but don't feel too bad Alan, the web servers author got his docs wrong too ... do you give refunds Alan? :) P.S. before placing your tin foil hat on Alan, be advised that the refund line was a JOKE ... we will commence with the rest of your book to find out if we are getting our $60 worth ... :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:16:40 -0000 From: ssmith159@gmail.com Subject: All Accounting jobs are available here...here...here... Message-ID: <1187950600.662629.68140@r23g2000prd.googlegroups.com> Hii!! am Steve. I was leisurely surfing the net, when I found the site that calls itself accounting crossing. I already heard about this site and had a little idea of what it is all about. But when i personally visited there, it really seemed to be a happening site. This is the only site I have ever seen that is exclusively designed for accounting and finance professionals. It surely made it different from the other not-so-unique-but-common websites. You can check it out by yourself! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 04:37:42 -0700 From: FrankS Subject: Re: COBOL Transactions? Message-ID: <1187955462.613585.17620@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Aug 23, 9:19 pm, "Paul Raulerson" wrote: > The only issue with > the Alpha is that the 4mm tape drive on it does not seem to be recognized. Given your inexperience with OpenVMS, perhaps you just don't know where to look for the device name? Have you tried $SHOW DEVICE MK Maybe the tape drive is dead? Hardware failures have been known to occur. > off to the UNIX machine which *does* know how to > talk to tape. This is what makes you so annoying. You have admitted to having little experience with OpenVMS and yet you make statements like "OpenVMS can't do X like all those other operating systems". IIRC at every turn you've been shown to be incorrect about OpenVMS' capabilities. Of course OpenVMS can work with tapes. Even file-oriented if that's your desire. Get the hardware working, learn to recognize the device name, and then it'll be trivial to do a backup to tape. Rather than making statements about what OpenVMS can or can't do, you'd be a lot better served (and earn more respect) by learning to ask questions first. Like, "how do I find my tape drive", "is there an RPG compiler for OpenVMS", "is it RDB or RMS that handles indexed file support", "how do I convert a status value to text in Cobol", etcetera. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 08:02:02 -0400 From: sol gongola Subject: Re: COBOL Transactions? Message-ID: <5Ozzi.9$qH6.0@newsfe12.lga> Ron Johnson wrote: > On 08/23/07 08:25, Tom Linden wrote: >> On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 21:37:53 -0700, Paul Raulerson >> wrote: >> >>> Not so. COBOL is not COBOL unless it supplies certain indexed file >>> handling >>> capabilities, something that is NOT true of other languages. Part of the >>> normal COBOL thing is to supply the BEGIN TRANSACTION keywords, though >>> it is >>> not required in the language spec for COBOL 85. I believe it is for >>> the new >>> spec coming out... >> Indexed file handling is in the PL/I semantics. > > Yeah, but anyone in his right mind knows that PL/1 sucks. > It had (has?) all the best features of cobol and fortran (and C) combined into a single package. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 08:06:53 -0400 From: sol gongola Subject: Re: COBOL Transactions? Message-ID: Paul Raulerson wrote: > In article , "Paul Raulerson" writes: >>> No, it is an inherent part of the language defnition. The definition does= >>> NOT speak as to how the underlying system is implemented, so you have it= >>> implemented with "RMS" under VMS, VISION or a descendant under AcuCOBOL,= >>> VSAM under z/OS, z/VM, z/VSE. and z/TPM, and so forth and so on for each= >>> different COBOL vendor. >> Must be a PITA to implement on an OS without a file system, like >> UNIX or DOS. But if Solaris and HP-UX can have "VAX compatable >> Fortran" with indexed file operations, I guess it can be done. > > Boy, you can say *that* again! It is also one of the reasons that > COBOL is so darn expensive on UNIX or non-VMS/non-Mainframe platforms. > By "UNIX or non-VMS/non-Mainframe" i assume you mean that they don't have indexed key access data files built into the system. ------------------------------ Date: 24 Aug 2007 07:20:21 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: COBOL Transactions? Message-ID: <81MDahE4Dtux@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , Ron Johnson writes: > > And actually, the (Linux) world, though, is heading in that > direction with the GCC (which now means "GNU Compiler Collection" > instead of GNU C Compiler). It's now simple to create language > bindings for any shared library compiled with a GCC compiler. It is not actually the compiler that is so much work, it is the record processing level of code. Years ago TOPS-20 folks determined that they were foolishly doing different RMS for their Fortran, COBOL, and other language libraries. They gave it up and wrote one RMS for all, even documented it so others could use it. VMS and other OS were there from day 1. UNIX and DOS weren't there. POSIX selecting C-ISAM as part of its standard probably helped, but I've not seen anything that shipped with most of them. (I remember when ULTRIX-32 added some Ingress routines as part of its standard libraries to provide this.) ------------------------------ Date: 24 Aug 2007 12:27:05 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: COBOL Transactions? Message-ID: <5j814pF3q1endU1@mid.individual.net> In article , "Tom Linden" writes: > On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:31:56 -0700, Paul Raulerson > wrote: > >> Wow - I freely admit to ignorance on this - I've always (in the IBM >> world) >> seen it written as PL/1, with an arabic "1" instead of a Roman Numeral >> "I". >> They *are* the same language are they not, or are they different? >> > Yes. Even on IBM gear it is the Roman numeral. I don't want to start a flame war over something as trivial as this, but it was definitely a "1" on the Primes I worked on and I have numerous books in my library (sadly, packed up at this point so I can't get any actual titles) that use the logo "PL/1". bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 07:31:18 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: COBOL Transactions? Message-ID: On 08/23/07 20:02, Tom Linden wrote: > On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 07:25:52 -0700, Ron Johnson > wrote: > >> On 08/23/07 08:25, Tom Linden wrote: >>> On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 21:37:53 -0700, Paul Raulerson >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Not so. COBOL is not COBOL unless it supplies certain indexed file >>>> handling >>>> capabilities, something that is NOT true of other languages. Part of >>>> the >>>> normal COBOL thing is to supply the BEGIN TRANSACTION keywords, though >>>> it is >>>> not required in the language spec for COBOL 85. I believe it is for >>>> the new >>>> spec coming out... >>> >>> Indexed file handling is in the PL/I semantics. >> >> Yeah, but anyone in his right mind knows that PL/1 sucks. >> > That would be PL/I BTW, you obviously know little about programming > languages. So you also say that PL/I sucks? (Just jerking your chain, Tom, since you are such a big booster of a not-so-popular-anymore language. Was it ever very popular outside the mainframe?) -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: 24 Aug 2007 13:18:24 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: COBOL Transactions? Message-ID: <5j8450F3sfeh9U1@mid.individual.net> In article , Ron Johnson writes: > On 08/23/07 20:02, Tom Linden wrote: >> On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 07:25:52 -0700, Ron Johnson >> wrote: >> >>> On 08/23/07 08:25, Tom Linden wrote: >>>> On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 21:37:53 -0700, Paul Raulerson >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Not so. COBOL is not COBOL unless it supplies certain indexed file >>>>> handling >>>>> capabilities, something that is NOT true of other languages. Part of >>>>> the >>>>> normal COBOL thing is to supply the BEGIN TRANSACTION keywords, though >>>>> it is >>>>> not required in the language spec for COBOL 85. I believe it is for >>>>> the new >>>>> spec coming out... >>>> >>>> Indexed file handling is in the PL/I semantics. >>> >>> Yeah, but anyone in his right mind knows that PL/1 sucks. >>> >> That would be PL/I BTW, you obviously know little about programming >> languages. > > So you also say that PL/I sucks? > > (Just jerking your chain, Tom, since you are such a big booster of a > not-so-popular-anymore language. Was it ever very popular outside > the mainframe?) Minicomputers. Prime used it and much of the OS and utilites was written in PL/1 :-) and various subset dialects. Microcomputers. PL/M (well, it may not be PL/1, but I think it qualifies as a dialect.) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 15:15:06 +0000 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: Re: COBOL Transactions? Message-ID: On Aug 23, 9:19 pm, "Paul Raulerson" wrote: >> The only issue with >> the Alpha is that the 4mm tape drive on it does not seem to be recogni= zed. > >Given your inexperience with OpenVMS, perhaps you just don't know >where to look for the device name? > >Have you tried $SHOW DEVICE MK Well, it shows up if you do a show dev at the bios prompt, but not in VMS= , even with a SHOW DEV /FULL/PAGE and looking pretty carefully for anythi= ng tht says "tape" in it. As you suggest below, either the tape drive is dead or the Sony 4mm drive= in the machine is just not recognized by VMS. >Maybe the tape drive is dead? Hardware failures have been known to >occur. > >> off to the UNIX machine which *does* know how to >> talk to tape. > >This is what makes you so annoying. You have admitted to having >little experience with OpenVMS and yet you make statements like >"OpenVMS can't do X like all those other operating systems". IIRC at >every turn you've been shown to be incorrect about OpenVMS' >capabilities. Boy are you ever sensitive. By your statement, what you are saying is that I am incorrect that: OpenVMS can be a sucessful replacement for a mainframe platform OpenVMS on Itanium is a viable platform for SMB business clients OpenVMS has one of the better COBOL compilers I have ever seen OpenVMS has a record aware file system OpenVMS is well supported by HP, and will probably be around for years And so forth and so on. What you *seem* to be objecting to is when I say, "Here is what I need to= do, here is how I would normally do it, what is the facility under VMS that d= oes this?" Rather than complaining that someone is comparing and contrasting VMS to = other commercial systems, you might want to consider *why*. In the partial quote you used as an example above, you left out the part = that the hardware the tape is on is an Alpha that I picked up for just ab= out nothing, and I also said I need to move it to a new (or used) support= ed Itanium machine. Why in heavens name would I, or *anyone* for that matter, go chasing arou= nd a hunk of hardware that is either not supported or simply broken when = the needed capabilty is available on another resource which is working? Better yet, why in heavens name would you assume I would NOT backup valua= ble (at least to me) work on which I have spent much time and effort? >Of course OpenVMS can work with tapes. Even file-oriented if that's >your desire. Get the hardware working, learn to recognize the device >name, and then it'll be trivial to do a backup to tape. Why bother? I was talking mostly about hardware. >Rather than making statements about what OpenVMS can or can't do, >you'd be a lot better served (and earn more respect) by learning to >ask questions first. Like, "how do I find my tape drive" Gee, I kind of went through that with SCSI controllers; if a device shows= up in the bios when you do a SHOW DEV, but not in VMS when you do a SHOW= DEV, chances are it is not recognized by VMS. I'm willing to hear what you think is wrong with that statement. Are you = saying that is probably not true? I do have an old Compaq DTL tape I was = thinking of connecting to it, and an old DEC 4mm tape. Just haven't bothe= red to do so since in reality, backup is going to be an issue for SMB and= I don't have the best answer for that. Sure seems like a question to me.= , "is there >an RPG compiler for OpenVMS", Kerry sent a link on that the other day. The reason I did not reply is th= at the website maintains it is an RPG-II compiler. Being first as it was = very kind of Kerry to do so, and second, as most people here have probabl= y never ever seen RPG, I did not publicy reply that the current version o= f RPG is RPGIV, and is based upon an ILE base. A modern RPGIV program wou= ld be virutally unrecognizable to an RPG-II programmer, given as most mod= ern programs do *not* use "the cycle", have a ton of built in fuctions, a= re written in free-form syntax, and so on and so forth. In other words, i= t is less trouble to convert the RPG to COBOL or even Assembler than it i= s to try and rewrite it RPG-II. Now that everyone is throughly bored by a paragraph talking about somethi= ng that is not really even relevant in the VMS world... "is it RDB or RMS that handles indexed >file support" Okay, what is the equivalent in RMS of sepcifying the CI intervals to con= trol splits? How large a file can RMS support, and where and when does th= e indexing start to bog down because of size? Is there an significant imp= act on the indexing performance with software raid and if so, what is the= cost/benefit ratio that determines when it makes sense to move to hardwa= re raid? How easy is it to expand VMS volumes when necessary, and when/wh= ere does degration of performance set in? (If you don't understand what I= mean by degredation, consider it in light of the CI question above.) Okay, I admit to being just a bit annoyed with the level of your complain= t. I don't put a lot of that stuff out there because the people here cont= ribute answers out of the goodness of their heart. I have not sent any of= them a check for their answers (well, outside of HP in general that is) = and don't consider it polite to ask questions that I can usually find the= answer to, either by experiment or digging though manuals. You want a real complaint about VMS? The documentation isn't cross refere= nced well enough, and when you search through the PDF manual files, the P= DF files are not bookmarked. You cannot click on the table of contents en= try for a sectoin and have the PDF jump to that section. Nope- you have t= o SCROLL to page 6-11 or whatever. There - a real honest to goodness comp= laint about VMS! :) >"how do I convert a status value to text in Cobol", >etcetera. I know how to convert status values; the real question there should have = been "how does the Alpha hold signed COMP values and how is Itanium diffe= rent?" Obviously that is a question I can go look up myself, and then I m= ight remember it next time I need it. In short, VMS, in a very real sense, is in competition with other systems= If you do not compare and contrast everything, a potentional customer *= will* do so, and you run the risk of loosing that customer to competition= who *did* do all their homework. Anyone here annoyed by those comparisions, well - I apologize for that. O= n the other hand, I very much APPRECIATE the people here who are not insu= lted and who are very very helpful. It is a little depressing sometimes to hear the horror stories about non-= support for VMS from HP. I do not doubt at all the veracity of those who = have those stories, but I have not personally seen that problem. Also remember, VMS is *not* a "mainstream" environment any longer, which = is in many ways an advantage, but in many other ways, means taking what i= s common in VMS-land and having to translate it to the equivalent common = facilty in Mainstream-land. None of which is a "cut down" to VMS. If you want rough and insulting? Look into Windows. If you don't do every= thing the "Microsoft" way, you are out of date, antiquated, or just incap= able of understanding any "advanced" topic. It isn't that way in the main= frame, or VMS, worlds. At least, not very much so. -Paul ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 15:22:48 +0000 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: Re: COBOL Transactions? Message-ID: ----=_vm_0011_W6861731149_10184_1187968968 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> Boy, you can say *that* again! It is also one of the reasons that >> COBOL is so darn expensive on UNIX or non-VMS/non-Mainframe platforms.= >> > >By "UNIX or non-VMS/non-Mainframe" i assume you mean that they don't >have indexed key access data files built into the system. Pretty much. UNIX filesystems have no idea about record oriented files, o= r rather, all the files on a UNIX file size have a record size of 1 byte.= COBOL (and I assume PL/I :) running under UNIX has to supply a record ori= ented file system layered over the UNIX filesystem. Or they can use a emp= ty DASD partition and roll their own filesystem, still has the same probl= em. Or they can use a RDMS, which internally has to solve exactly the same problem. System that normally deal with record based file systems have a great adv= antage in terms of support for COBOL (and PL/I). -Paul ----=_vm_0011_W6861731149_10184_1187968968-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:01:20 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: COBOL Transactions? Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 05:31:18 -0700, Ron Johnson wrote: > On 08/23/07 20:02, Tom Linden wrote: >> On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 07:25:52 -0700, Ron Johnson >> wrote: >> >>> On 08/23/07 08:25, Tom Linden wrote: >>>> On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 21:37:53 -0700, Paul Raulerson >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Not so. COBOL is not COBOL unless it supplies certain indexed file >>>>> handling >>>>> capabilities, something that is NOT true of other languages. Part of >>>>> the >>>>> normal COBOL thing is to supply the BEGIN TRANSACTION keywords, >>>>> though >>>>> it is >>>>> not required in the language spec for COBOL 85. I believe it is for >>>>> the new >>>>> spec coming out... >>>> >>>> Indexed file handling is in the PL/I semantics. >>> >>> Yeah, but anyone in his right mind knows that PL/1 sucks. >>> >> That would be PL/I BTW, you obviously know little about programming >> languages. > > So you also say that PL/I sucks? > > (Just jerking your chain, Tom, since you are such a big booster of a > not-so-popular-anymore language. Was it ever very popular outside > the mainframe?) And I yours:-) It sold pretty well on the VAX, and was/is used by many of the three letter agencies both here and abroad. Did/does very well in Aerospace (used both at NASA and ESA) and Automotive, Steel, Insurance, Banking > Here is a good piece of propoganda http://www.kednos.com/pli/king.pdf -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:06:00 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: COBOL Transactions? Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 08:15:06 -0700, Paul Raulerson wrote: >> Have you tried $SHOW DEVICE MK > Well, it shows up if you do a show dev at the bios prompt, but not in > VMS, even with a SHOW DEV /FULL/PAGE and looking pretty carefully for > anything tht says "tape" in it. > As you suggest below, either the tape drive is dead or the Sony 4mm > drive in the machine is just not recognized by VMS. maybe the tape driver isn't loaded, try $ mc sysman SYSMAN> io auto -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:07:55 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: COBOL Transactions? Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 08:22:48 -0700, Paul Raulerson wrote: >>> Boy, you can say *that* again! It is also one of the reasons that >>> COBOL is so darn expensive on UNIX or non-VMS/non-Mainframe platforms. >>> >> >> By "UNIX or non-VMS/non-Mainframe" i assume you mean that they don't >> have indexed key access data files built into the system. > > Pretty much. UNIX filesystems have no idea about record oriented files, > or rather, all the files on a UNIX file size have a record size of 1 > byte. > > COBOL (and I assume PL/I :) running under UNIX has to supply a record > oriented file system layered over the UNIX filesystem. Or they can use a > empty DASD partition and roll their own filesystem, still has the same > problem. Or they can use a RDMS, which internally has to solve exactly > the same problem. Yes, basically it is an ISAM package. On Ultrix PL/I it was sold as a separate product that could be bundled with applications. > > System that normally deal with record based file systems have a great > advantage in terms of support for COBOL (and PL/I). > > -Paul > > > -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 12:18:56 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: COBOL Transactions? Message-ID: <4qEzi.90812$dI1.77306@newsfe08.phx> On 08/24/07 08:18, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article , > Ron Johnson writes: >> On 08/23/07 20:02, Tom Linden wrote: >>> On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 07:25:52 -0700, Ron Johnson >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 08/23/07 08:25, Tom Linden wrote: >>>>> On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 21:37:53 -0700, Paul Raulerson >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Not so. COBOL is not COBOL unless it supplies certain indexed file >>>>>> handling >>>>>> capabilities, something that is NOT true of other languages. Part of >>>>>> the >>>>>> normal COBOL thing is to supply the BEGIN TRANSACTION keywords, though >>>>>> it is >>>>>> not required in the language spec for COBOL 85. I believe it is for >>>>>> the new >>>>>> spec coming out... >>>>> Indexed file handling is in the PL/I semantics. >>>> Yeah, but anyone in his right mind knows that PL/1 sucks. >>>> >>> That would be PL/I BTW, you obviously know little about programming >>> languages. >> So you also say that PL/I sucks? >> >> (Just jerking your chain, Tom, since you are such a big booster of a >> not-so-popular-anymore language. Was it ever very popular outside >> the mainframe?) > > Minicomputers. Prime used it and much of the OS and utilites was written > in PL/1 :-) and various subset dialects. Prime has been dead for how many years now? 15? > Microcomputers. PL/M (well, it may not be PL/1, but I think it qualifies > as a dialect.) Who used PL/M besides DRI? -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 17:22:05 +0000 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: Re: COBOL Transactions? Message-ID: ----=_vm_0011_W7608327335_29854_1187976125 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >New Product from IBM >The product is called "PL/1 Package/2" for OS/2, and >so far it looks like a blockbuster. I just could NOT help noticing that Arabic "1" in there.... -Paul ----=_vm_0011_W7608327335_29854_1187976125-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 17:34:36 +0000 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: Re: COBOL Transactions? Message-ID: ----=_vm_0011_W7642013283_5082_1187976876 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>> Have you tried $SHOW DEVICE MK >> Well, it shows up if you do a show dev at the bios prompt, but not in >> VMS, even with a SHOW DEV /FULL/PAGE and looking pretty carefully for >> anything tht says "tape" in it. >> As you suggest below, either the tape drive is dead or the Sony 4mm >> drive in the machine is just not recognized by VMS. > >maybe the tape driver isn't loaded, try >$ mc sysman >SYSMAN> io auto What an excellent thought! Let me go try that immediately... Great thought, but no joy. I really rather expect the hardware is just not something VMS has been configured to support right now. No big loss at the moment, as the entire machine will need to be replaced with an Itanium model, and all the software ported to IA64, before it starts getting sold. Alpha is great, but support is in the IA64 world right now. Just for kicks, here is the output from a SHOW DEV statement. Perhaps you or someone else may recognize the tape drive hiding in there somewhere. P.S. It it were working, I believe it should be on the DKA600: slot. It is LUN 6 on the PKA0: SCSI Adapter. Thanks ! -Paul $ show dev Device Device Error Volume Free Trans Mnt Name Status Count Label Blocks Count Cnt ALPHIE$DKA0: Online 0 ALPHIE$DKA400: Online wrtlck 0 ALPHIE$DKB0: Mounted 0 VMS83$IPL 14262672 476 1 ALPHIE$DKB100: Mounted 0 VMS0100 17636144 2 1 ALPHIE$DKB200: Mounted 0 VMSA00000000 0 2 1 ALPHIE$DKB300: Mounted 0 VMSA00000001 0 2 1 ALPHIE$DKB400: Mounted 0 VMSA00000002 0 2 1 ALPHIE$DKB500: Mounted 0 VMSA00000003 0 2 1 ALPHIE$DKB600: Mounted 0 VMS0600 12952864 2 1 ALPHIE$DVA0: Online 0 DPA0: (ALPHIE) Online 0 DPA1: (ALPHIE) Mounted 0 VMS$DATA 70552608 141 1 Device Device Error Name Status Count ASN0: Online 0 FTA0: Offline 0 FTA18: Online 0 OPA0: Online 0 RTA0: Offline 0 RTB0: Offline 0 TNA0: Online 0 TTA0: Online 0 TTB0: Online 0 Device Device Error Name Status Count LRA0: Online 0 Device Device Error Name Status Count EWA0: Online 9 EWA2: Online 0 EWA3: Online 0 EWA4: Online 0 EWA5: Online 0 EWA6: Online 0 EWA8: Online 0 EWA9: Online 0 EWA10: Online 0 GQA0: Online 0 IKA0: Offline 0 IMA0: Offline 0 INA0: Offline 0 MPA0: Online 0 OPA2: Online 0 OPA3: Online 0 PKA0: Online 0 PKB0: Online 0 PPP0: Online 0 PWIP0: Online 0 WSA0: Offline 0 WSA1: Online 0 WSA2: Online 0 ----=_vm_0011_W7642013283_5082_1187976876-- ------------------------------ Date: 24 Aug 2007 12:49:44 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: COBOL Transactions? Message-ID: In article , "Paul Raulerson" writes: > COBOL (and I assume PL/I :) running under UNIX has to supply a record ori= > ented file system layered over the UNIX filesystem. As do Ada implementations. There is a distinct problem with an operating system written by folks who think the lowest common denominator programming language is the only one. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 08:16:33 -0700 From: tadamsmar Subject: Dataoverun on tape Message-ID: <1187968593.142717.302240@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com> I taped off an image from an AS400. Took two tapes, used /VER I tried to put it on a DS10 I just bought and got a DATAOVERUN during the 2nd tape. I am trying again. Any idea what caused it? An hope it will work this time? ------------------------------ Date: 24 Aug 2007 11:16:30 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: Dataoverun on tape Message-ID: <6SP9uIMt6ywj@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <1187968593.142717.302240@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, tadamsmar writes: > I taped off an image from an AS400. Took two tapes, used /VER > > I tried to put it on a DS10 I just bought and got a DATAOVERUN during > the 2nd tape. I am trying again. > > Any idea what caused it? An hope it will work this time? It would be nice if you included the commands that you used both to create and restore what I assume is a two volume BACKUP save set along with the exact text of the resulting error message. It sounds to me like a hardware error. DATAOVERRUN tends to indicate that a block read from tape was too large to fit in the buffer provided for it. Since BACKUP uses a fixed block size and since your error occurred on the 2nd tape, it isn't plausible that the buffer size is the wrong size. So it must be the tape block that is the wrong size. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 07:37:48 GMT From: "Robert Jarratt" Subject: Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist Message-ID: "Bob Koehler" wrote in message news:ZqOiOHVCP9HG@eisner.encompasserve.org... > In article <46CCE489.38A33AB4@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera > writes: >> >> Post the output of SHOW DEVICE E and maybe we can figure out where >> NETCONFIG >> made an invalid assumption. (ESA0: doesn't sound right for a VLC - I'd >> have >> expected EWA0: and EWA-0, but it's been a while). > > I don't think he's seeing a NETCONFIG.COM bug, I think the poster was > right about this being an issue with having some other protocol > started prior to DECnet Phase IV trying to change the physical > address. > > None of which is doing him any good since he needs MOP, not DECnet. > Indeed I now see that I do not need DECnet for downloading firmware to a DECserver, I was misled slightly by the Hoffman Labs page which mentions DECnet, but then says it is not actually used. Still it is nice to get DECnet going and I succeeded with phase IV when I started TCP/IP afterwards (thanks to other posters for this advice). Is there somewhere that summarises DECnet Phase IV addressing and also explains its relationship to SCSSYSTEMID (I am sure I saw somewhere that they are related)? Regards Rob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 02:53:14 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist Message-ID: <1187949194.783875.89580@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com> Robert Jarratt wrote: > "Bob Koehler" wrote in message > news:ZqOiOHVCP9HG@eisner.encompasserve.org... > > In article <46CCE489.38A33AB4@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera > > writes: > >> > >> Post the output of SHOW DEVICE E and maybe we can figure out where > >> NETCONFIG > >> made an invalid assumption. (ESA0: doesn't sound right for a VLC - I'd > >> have > >> expected EWA0: and EWA-0, but it's been a while). > > > > I don't think he's seeing a NETCONFIG.COM bug, I think the poster was > > right about this being an issue with having some other protocol > > started prior to DECnet Phase IV trying to change the physical > > address. > > > > None of which is doing him any good since he needs MOP, not DECnet. > > > > Indeed I now see that I do not need DECnet for downloading firmware to a > DECserver, I was misled slightly by the Hoffman Labs page which mentions > DECnet, but then says it is not actually used. Still it is nice to get > DECnet going and I succeeded with phase IV when I started TCP/IP afterwards > (thanks to other posters for this advice). > > Is there somewhere that summarises DECnet Phase IV addressing and also > explains its relationship to SCSSYSTEMID (I am sure I saw somewhere that > they are related)? > > Regards > > Rob I'm not sure that there is a requirement (in the back of my mind there is something that says there is, but that doesn't help) but it's certainly traditional that the SCSSYSTEMID is the same as the DECnet phase IV address. The DECnet phase IV address is made up of a DECnet area and a node number within that area: area.number So, for a node 36.101 it's node 101 in DECnet area 36. There are up to 1023 nodes in an area. the SCSSYSTEMID is a number which is made up as: (area*1024)+number So, for the 36.101 it's (36*1024)+101 = 36965 You can actually put the calculation as above in the MODPARAMS.DAT for setting the SCSSYSTEMID: SCSSYSTEMID=(36*1024)+101 DECnet phase IV isn't MOP, but includes control of the MOP service for downline loading. Similarly, it isn't command console protocol but it can be used to control it. Steve ------------------------------ Date: 24 Aug 2007 07:32:21 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist Message-ID: <1w46wgdK8iCv@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , "Robert Jarratt" writes: > > Is there somewhere that summarises DECnet Phase IV addressing and also > explains its relationship to SCSSYSTEMID (I am sure I saw somewhere that > they are related)? If you set SCSSYSTEMID and start DECnet Phase IV they must contain the same bits. cluster_config.com will look at your DECnet address and I think netcongif.com will look at your SCSSYSTEMID to try to make them so. If you're doing it by hand the relationship is (area.node being the DECnet address): scssystemid = (area * 1024) + node Both of these will cause the NIC's physical address to become AA-00-04-00-xx-yy where scssystemid in hex is yyxx. Some protocols can't deal with the physical address changing after they've started which is why DECnet Phase IV won't start if other protocols are already using the hardware address as the physical address. ------------------------------ Date: 24 Aug 2007 07:34:26 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist Message-ID: <2hpmlleQ0JNy@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <1187949194.783875.89580@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk writes: > DECnet phase IV isn't MOP, but includes control of the MOP service for > downline loading. Similarly, it isn't command console protocol but it > can be used to control it. I think that's a bit stronger statement than reality. The only thing DECnet Phase IV and MOP have in common is using NCP and the NCP database as management tools. I can see why you might use "control" in that context, but the DECnet stack does not control the MOP stack. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 16:27:54 GMT From: "Robert Jarratt" Subject: Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist Message-ID: "Bob Koehler" wrote in message news:ZqOiOHVCP9HG@eisner.encompasserve.org... > In article <46CCE489.38A33AB4@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera > writes: >> >> Post the output of SHOW DEVICE E and maybe we can figure out where >> NETCONFIG >> made an invalid assumption. (ESA0: doesn't sound right for a VLC - I'd >> have >> expected EWA0: and EWA-0, but it's been a while). > > I don't think he's seeing a NETCONFIG.COM bug, I think the poster was > right about this being an issue with having some other protocol > started prior to DECnet Phase IV trying to change the physical > address. > > None of which is doing him any good since he needs MOP, not DECnet. > I thought I replied to this but I cannot see the reply several hours later, so apologies if this is duplicate: I now realise that I don't need DECnet for downloading firmware to a DECserver (I was led astray by the Hoffman article which mentions DECnet and then says it is not actually used). Still it was fun to get it working. Is there a relationship between DECnet addresses and SCSSYSTEMID? If so what is it? Is there a simple explanation somewhere of Phase IV addresses? Thanks Rob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 13:14:10 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist Message-ID: Bob Koehler wrote: > I think that's a bit stronger statement than reality. The only > thing DECnet Phase IV and MOP have in common is using NCP and the > NCP database as management tools. I can see why you might use > "control" in that context, but the DECnet stack does not control > the MOP stack. Out of curiosity, who registers with the ethernet driver the "if you see a MOP packet, send it to me" ? In an environment where you have LANCP, is it correct that while a boot node boots, it will not serve any MOP requests until LANACP has started ? In an environment that predates LANCP, did LANACP exist ? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 08:21:09 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: In article <230820070052253169%nospam@yrl.co.uk>, Elliott Roper writes: > In article <130820070946381392%nospam@yrl.co.uk>, Elliott Roper > wrote: > > > I have a pile of old kit waiting to go to the tip. > > Phillip Helbig, as he grabbed the best stuff, convinced me I should > > mention what's left in case anyone wants it. > > The last of it has left the building. WOW! Just like Elvis! Hopefully, we staunch supporters of VMS who say that it is "still alive" won't be thrown into the same bin as the multitude of people who have reported Elvis sightings. :-| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:16:15 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Message-ID: In article , Ron Johnson writes: >On 08/23/07 08:06, Tom Linden wrote: >> On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:09:40 -0700, wrote: >> >>> Being prepared to suffer and die for your faith doesn't imply any >>> validity to >>> that faith just that you believe in it very strongly. >> >> It suggests a psychosis. > >It suggests stupidity. Kill the other guy for his cause before he >kills you for your. (Paraphrased from George Patton.) > This was in response to a comment about the early Christians being prepared to die for their faith at the hands of the Romans. I don't think the early Christians starting to fight a guerilla war against the Roman Empire would have helped much. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University >-- >Ron Johnson, Jr. >Jefferson LA USA > >Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. >Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 11:44:48 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Message-ID: In article <1187892204.789756.284980@x40g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, ultradwc@gmail.com writes: > >the apostles such as Paul travelled to many countries >including Greece and spoke the language ... > >No, the apostles did not write the Gospels, but others >did and somewhere along the line it got written in >Greek ... how do you or anyone else know the >exact sequence of events ... That is rather the point. How do you know that what was written and then what was selected out of all the Gospels and other early Christian literature for inclusion in the New Testament represents the real teachings of the historical Jesus ? There were many different Christian groups which held a wide variety of beliefs in the first and second century. These groups vied with each other for support in similar ways to how different Protestant groups have vied with each other and Catholicism since the reformation (though the differences were rather more pronounced). One group with the help of the Roman Emperor Constantine became dominant and produced the canon of the New Testament pretty much as we know it today - proscribing other texts as heretical. These other "heretical" texts though had been considered sacred texts by various groups of Christians. The fact that a text was included in the New testament doesn't make it any more authentic than other texts which were excluded - it just meant it fitted in better with the beliefs and desires of the group which put together the New testament and the political aims of Constantine. >the writings are close >enough that God must approve or He would have >done something about it ... > >the only ones who are changing the bible are the >ones who do not like what it says ... > Given the existence of an all powerful God those two statements sound contradictory. However the usual answer to such things is that God gave us free will. Hence it would seem likely that men throughout the ages have had the opportunity to exercise that free will by shaping the Bible to their own ends. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 07:15:39 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Message-ID: On 08/23/07 20:06, David J Dachtera wrote: > Tom Linden wrote: >> On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:09:40 -0700, wrote: >> >>> Being prepared to suffer and die for your faith doesn't imply any >>> validity to >>> that faith just that you believe in it very strongly. >> It suggests a psychosis. > > Eh, I don't know as I'd go quite that far until the subject turns to homicide > bombers and other terrorists. (They're usually called "suicide" bombers; but, > homicide is their actual intent. Their own death is merely incidental.) > > At the risk of sounding like I'm defending anyone, I can't help thinking about > the early Christians facing the lions and other horrible fates. Surely, these > innocents did nothing to deserve to die that way. THEY were truly martyrs, dying > for their chosen convictions, and "convicted" of nothing worthy of death. Or Jews in Europe and blacks in America. > ...not to mention other true cases of persecution, such as the persecution > inflicted upon the innocent by homicide bombers and other terrorists. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 07:18:29 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Message-ID: On 08/24/07 05:16, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > In article , Ron Johnson writes: >> On 08/23/07 08:06, Tom Linden wrote: >>> On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:09:40 -0700, wrote: >>> >>>> Being prepared to suffer and die for your faith doesn't imply any >>>> validity to >>>> that faith just that you believe in it very strongly. >>> It suggests a psychosis. >> It suggests stupidity. Kill the other guy for his cause before he >> kills you for your. (Paraphrased from George Patton.) >> > This was in response to a comment about the early Christians being prepared to > die for their faith at the hands of the Romans. > I don't think the early Christians starting to fight a guerilla war against the > Roman Empire would have helped much. Too true. Especially since Christianity was (and still is, to a large degree) mostly a religion of women and slaves. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 15:41:54 +0200 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Message-ID: <46cedf96$0$21926$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk> Ron Johnson wrote: > On 08/23/07 14:00, FredK wrote: > [snip] >> >> Now, now Bob. Please. We know that both the Old and New Testaments >> *have* changed over time. First translation IN ITSELF can change >> the meaning. Second we know that there were several major revisions >> made to the New > > Which is why old Muslims are smart to make young Muslims (no matter > their ethnicity) learn Arabic, so that they can read the Koran in > the original language. > Errr - not quite. The Koran is noted for its "mistranslation" as a matter of dogma as much as any other reason. Knock yourself out here, or any other place that documents this issue http://www.blessedcause.org/Quran.htm The Koran is by Islamic definition "the word of God" and can thus never be questioned, which is heresy. In order to maintain this patently false position, the Koran is constantly mistranslated and changed to indicate that it is not a human narrator but from God Himself that the words emanate. Religion = Dogma != Truth Dweeb > [snip] >> >> The writings in the Bible are the words of Men, not of God. Those >> who wrote them, and some who read them may believe they are the >> inspired Word of God - yet they often betray all-to-human failings - >> like Paul the nutjob who lived two centuries after Christ and >> created much of the Christian mythology and > > A smart guy like you should *know* that Paul died in the mid-60s. > Either 64CE or 67CE. > >> orthodoxy and who had some real problems with woman and sex - among >> other things. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 07:37:50 -0700 From: issinoho Subject: Logical name translation under Apache Message-ID: <1187966270.557910.313900@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com> Chaps, What is the best method for returning the value of a logical name from within server-side script under Apache (SWS)? I had a look at the OPENVMS extension for PHP but it only has a subset of lexicals, none of which account for logical names. Any help much appreciated. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 16:07:00 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Peer review (was Re: Wisconsin professor says global warming a hoax!) Message-ID: In article , "Tom Linden" writes: >On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 08:54:05 -0700, wrote: > >>> That is not accurate, the period of precession of the equinoxes is >>> 25,600 >>> years, IIRC, advancing one degree about every 70 years (perhelion >>> currently is >>> January 4) >>> >> The predominant astronomical cycle affecting glaciation for the last >> 800,000 years has been a 100,000 year cycle of ice ages punctuated by >> briefer >> usually 9000 - 12000 year long interglacials. There are a number of >> different >> astronomical cycles which acting together may explain this. I believe the >> interglacial can generally be thought of as lasting for about one half >> of the >> equinox precessional period (the exact length depending upon how all the >> cycles mesh together and probably also modulated by other >> non-astronomical >> factors). The variation caused by the precession of the equinoxes >> obviously >> occurs repeatedly during the 100,000 year period but only leads to >> interglacial >> conditions at the beginning/end of the 100,000 year cycle. >> However as indicated in some of the links below more recent findings >> from ice >> cores point to some interglacials having lasted much longer than half the >> equinox precessional period. > > > >Because there are a number of different repeating factors ( google >Milankovitch) >there is a beat phenomenon that can occur resulting in extremes. >I copied the following article which I think is well put together >http://www.kednos.com/physics/CLIMATOLOGY/ICEAGE.HTML > >Note the graph on insolation, the 100K period to which you refer is >clearly significant, >the 400K period is caused by perturbation of the earths orbit by planetary >alignments >resulting in the eccentricity becoming as high as 0.04 (currently almost >circular, 0.01) >but also not that the last ice age in which the ice was several km thick >on northern Europe >was maybe 12000 years ago and that is outside the 100KA cycle. > I'm not sure then why you objected so strenuously to my statement that the last interglacial started about 11500 years ago (there are a number of different ways to measure when the interglacial started and hence figures from 10,000 upto 12,000 years ago are often quoted but I'm sure you can't have been objecting on that basis - The links I provided used all of those figures). The only other thing you could have been objecting to was the statement that in the 1970s it was thought that interglacial's generally lasted about 11,000 years again the links provide adequate support for that statement. I'm also not sure what you mean by "outside the 100KA cycle" in your last remark. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/image:Ice_Age_Temperature.png for a diagram showing Antarctic temperature changes during the last several glacial/interglacial cycles over the past 450,000 years (unfortunately the date scale isn't linear - stretching out the recent past and compressing the more distant past). David Webb security team leader CCSS Middlesex University >-- >PL/I for OpenVMS >www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 13:08:09 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Processing Ideas Needed: Message-ID: <7a998$46cf107c$cef8887a$9437@TEKSAVVY.COM> DECNET is your friend. Say the web server runs under WWW_SERVER account, and your user is under JDOE. If WWW_SERVER has captured the username/password for JDOE, it can OPEN/READ/WRITE 0"jdoe password"::0=MYSUBMIT (not sure if the syntax for the task is 100% right). This will cause a process to be created under the JDOE account and which will invoke the MYSUBMIT command procedure in JDOE's account which can then submit the job that will run under JDOE's account. No need for any special privileges. If the web server has not captured username/password, you can create a decnet proxy in UAF that will allow the web server acocunt to open a task under JDOE without having to specify the password. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:19:36 -0700 From: sampsal@gmail.com Subject: Re: Using a MacBook pro as a console for an Alphaserver 800 Message-ID: <1187972376.335809.206160@l22g2000prc.googlegroups.com> > > >- Which serial port on the Alphaserver do I plug the null modem cable > > >into? [snip] > It has, IIRC, two DB9 ports and one MMJ port. At least one of the > DB9's is a functioning console when you're talking to SRM (the console > firmware), but once VMS starts booting, it uses only the "real" console, > which was the MMJ. [snip] > I think it is generally true, at least for the newer systems, if they > have multiple serial ports, all of them can talk to SRM, but VMS uses > the "right" one exclusively. (Once they succeeded in booting it, and > VMS has enabled logins, they could log in from the "wrong" serial > ports, but you don't see the OPCOM messages there, nor other system > startup messages. If "$ show terminal" reveals it to be OPA0:, you've > got the right port, if it's TTA0: or TTA1: or TTB0:, it's the wrong > port.) Yeah, confirmed, the COM1 port is a "semi-console" . I've plugged a null modem cable between that and a Keyspan USB serial adapter and it works, to a degree (using Kermit and Vaxman's scripts in this thread), i.e. you get the SRM ">>>" prompt and can boot the system but then the next thing that is shown is the login prompt once the system is up. For my needs, this is enough but it would be nice to see the boot up and OPCOM messages, I ordered one off Ebay, hopefully it works :) Sampsa ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:40:43 +0200 From: Albrecht Schlosser Subject: Re: Using a MacBook pro as a console for an Alphaserver 800 Message-ID: sampsal@gmail.com wrote: > Yeah, confirmed, the COM1 port is a "semi-console" . I've plugged a > null modem cable between that and a Keyspan USB serial adapter and it > works, to a degree (using Kermit and Vaxman's scripts in this thread), > i.e. you get the SRM ">>>" prompt and can boot the system but then the > next thing that is shown is the login prompt once the system is up. > > For my needs, this is enough but it would be nice to see the boot up > and OPCOM messages, I ordered one off Ebay, hopefully it works :) what does (SRM) >>> "show console" show ? IIRC, something like what you saw, happens, if the console is set to graphics - you can get it, if you really want ;-) - but the system boot goes to the graphics console. >>> set console serial (as Steven M. Schweda suggested before) would do the trick, then. Albrecht ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 08:15:45 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: VMS 8.3 and TCPIP X.Y: the killer application Message-ID: In article , healyzh@aracnet.com writes: > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply > wrote: > > Will it fix my problem (i.e. Symbiont-Checks-Deliverability: FALSE > > will silently drop all mail to addresses, whether they are valid VMS > > usernames or not)? > > This was why I upgraded. Some ******** was sending out spam that claimed to > be coming from my domain. An emergency upgrade to OpenVMS V8.3 and TCPIP > V5.6 solved the problem with all the bounces I was the target of. > > Though the problem I had was that "Symbiont-Checks-Deliverability: FALSE" > wouldn't drop email to addresses over the legal lenght, but instead tried to > deliver them. Same problem here: "Symbiont-Checks-Deliverability: FALSE" will drop them UNLESS it is a SYNTACTICALLY invalid VMS username, e.g. too long, illegal characters etc. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 06:34:36 -0700 From: Neil Lowden Subject: Volume Shadowing Availability Message-ID: <1187962476.450324.132520@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Hi Guys There was a document kicking around some 10 years ago that gave a mathematical analysis of relative availability with single, two and three member shadow sets. Guess it was about 15-20 pages long. Anyone have an electronic copy or knwo where it was published? Thanks and regards -Neil ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 11:39:02 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Volume Shadowing Availability Message-ID: <46CEFB96.10502@comcast.net> Neil Lowden wrote: > Hi Guys > > There was a document kicking around some 10 years ago that gave a > mathematical analysis of relative availability with single, two and > three member shadow sets. Guess it was about 15-20 pages long. > > Anyone have an electronic copy or knwo where it was published? > > Thanks and regards > > -Neil > Have you tried Google? Plug in what you remember about the title, author, publisher, date, content, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:43:11 -0700 From: Neil Lowden Subject: Re: Volume Shadowing Availability Message-ID: <1187973791.919628.112760@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com> > Have you tried Google? Plug in what you remember about the title, > author, publisher, date, content, etc. Yeah, I exhausted Google. I originally had only a hardcopy which I think was a handout at some Digital (possibly Compaq) bash. -Neil ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:51:06 -0700 From: Neil Lowden Subject: Re: Volume Shadowing Availability Message-ID: <1187974266.605511.142530@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com> Found something with very similar material here (http://www.vldb.org/ conf/1988/P331.PDF) if anyone else is interested. -Neil ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 01:26:19 -0600 From: Jeff Campbell Subject: Re: [Slightly off-topic] Using a MacBook pro as a console for an Alphaserver 800 Message-ID: <1187940211_6777@sp12lax.superfeed.net> sampsal@gmail.com wrote: > I've recently acquired an old Alphaserver 800 that I intend to run VMS > on. My only other machines in the house are Apple Macs, none with > built in serial ports. I do however own a few null modem cables and am > in the process of buying a USB serial adapter, with the view to > running the Alphaserver headless in a closet (the other half is not as > big a fan of old VMS boxes as I am, unfortunately) and simply using a > Macbook Pro, a USB - serial adapter and a null modem cable to do any > necessary console work. > > So my questions more or less come to this: > - Which USB serial adapter do you recommend? Not all of them seem Mac > compatible > - Which serial port on the Alphaserver do I plug the null modem cable > into? > - Anything special that needs to be done in the SRM to make all this > work? > > Finally, can anyone recommend a terminal program for OS X that does > serial and works decently with VMS (esp. EVE). > > Thanks in advance, > > Sampsa Laine > The console port COM1 is the MMJ connector on the rear I/O panel. The SRM commands's: >>> set console serial >>> init will need to be issued to use the serial console. I found a copy of the user manual at: Google is yout friend. 8-) Jeff ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.464 ************************