INFO-VAX Sat, 28 Jul 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 410 Contents: adding second IA64 to vms cluster Re: adding second IA64 to vms cluster Re: adding second IA64 to vms cluster Re: adding second IA64 to vms cluster RE: Advanced Server MAX_SMB_DATA_SIZE Grab tool Re: Grab tool Re: Grab tool Re: Grab tool Re: Grab tool Re: Grab tool itanium memory/page sizes Re: July the 4th Re: July the 4th RE: July the 4th RE: July the 4th Re: unable to dispaly actual used size after RMS CONVERT to an indexed file Re: What does GEM mean? Re: What does GEM mean? Re: What does GEM mean? Re: What does GEM mean? Re: What does GEM mean? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 05:32:30 -0700 From: magalettac@hotmail.com Subject: adding second IA64 to vms cluster Message-ID: <1185625950.032770.88100@b79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> I have a 2 node cluster that I am in the process of building. Both servers are rx6600's running VMS 8.3. I am using eva fibre In cluster. I believe I have done all the work correctly on the eva, drives have been created and presented and hosts are setup. I installed VMS originally on both systems on scsi local drives before I did the san work. I was able to boot both up locally with no problems and was able to see all shared drives from each system. I then booted from dvd on node 1 and was able to install VMS cleanly to shared drive. I added quorum disk and what not and first node looks great. I then ran cluster_config.com from node 1 and told it to boot 2nd node from shared fibre and gave it its votes and other information. I get to the part where it says waiting for node 2 to boot. I goto second node and can not see any shared drives from efi , I boot it from its local disks and see all the shared drives,so I know communication is not the problem. This is my first attempt at using Itaniums in a cluster so I must be missing a step but I do not know what it is. Any help with this is greatly appreciated... Thanks, Carmine ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 16:20:22 +0200 From: "Martin Vorlaender" Subject: Re: adding second IA64 to vms cluster Message-ID: wrote: > I have a 2 node cluster that I am in the process of building. > Both servers are rx6600's running VMS 8.3. I am using eva fibre > In cluster. ... > I then booted from dvd on node 1 and was able to install VMS cleanlyto shared drive. I added quorum disk and what not and first node looksgreat. I then ran cluster_config.com from node 1 and told it to boot2nd node from shared fibre and gave it its votes and otherinformation. I get to the part where it says waiting for node 2 toboot. > > I goto second node and can not see any shared drives from efi , I bootit from its local disks and see all the shared drives,so I knowcommunication is not the problem. AFAIK, you have to boot the second node from the DVD in order to call BOOT_OPTIONS.COM to make boot options for the SAN devices. Disclaimer: As I have not yet set up an Integrity cluster, this is how I think it might work. HTH, Martin -- One OS to rule them all | Martin Vorlaender | OpenVMS rules! One OS to find them | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de One OS to bring them all | http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin.vorlaender@t-online.de ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 14:40:16 GMT From: Robert Deininger Subject: Re: adding second IA64 to vms cluster Message-ID: In article <1185625950.032770.88100@b79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, magalettac@hotmail.com wrote: > I have a 2 node cluster that I am in the process of building. > Both servers are rx6600's running VMS 8.3. I am using eva fibre > In cluster. Your reference for this work is the OpenVMS Clustering manual: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/4477/4477PRO.HTML Unfortunately, that manual is overdue for a refresh. It's missing useful Itanium-specific information. > I believe I have done all the work correctly on the eva, > drives have been created and presented and hosts are setup. > > I installed VMS originally on both systems on scsi local drives before > I did the san work. I was able to boot both up locally with no > problems and > was able to see all shared drives from each system. Please be careful to keep both systems from accessing the shared storage at the same time, until both systems are in the same VMS cluster. Without the cluster to synchronize access, it is only safe for 1 system at a time to mount the EVA disks with write access. (Uncoordinated read-only disk mounts are generally safe, but not officially supported.) > I then booted from dvd on node 1 and was able to install VMS cleanly > to > shared drive. I added quorum disk and what not and first node looks > great. Ok. At this point, I'll assume you have a 1-node cluster, with a system disk and a quorum disk, both on FibreChannel. The most common choice here would be to give the system and the quorum disk 1 vote each, making a quorum of 2 votes. And I'll assume your goal is to set up the second node to boot into the cluster from that same FibreChannel disk. And I'll assume that you have a working network connection between the two systems. That's mandatory for this kind of cluster configuration. If my assumptions are wrong, my advice is probably bad. > I then ran cluster_config.com from node 1 and told it to boot 2nd node > from shared fibre > and gave it its votes and other information. I get to the part where > it says > waiting for node 2 to boot. > > I goto second node and can not see any shared drives from efi , I boot > it from > its local disks and see all the shared drives,so I know communication > is not the problem. The EFI shell doesn't scan the SAN for all devices by default. (On a big SAN, it would take too long.) If you make a boot option in the EFI menu, the shell will discover that device automatically. One safe way to do this is to boot node 2 from it's local SCSI or SAS disk. DO NOT mount any FC disks at this point. Use CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM to have node 2 form a cluster. Use the SAME cluster group number and cluster password that node 1 is using. When node 2 reboots after CLUSTER_CONFIG, it will join the existing cluster with node 1. Once the systems are clustered in this way, you can safely mount and use the shared disks. You can use BOOT_OPTIONS.COM on node 2 to create an EFI boot option to boot the system from the shared FC disk. Then you should be able to boot node 2 from the shared FC disk. If you haven't put the systems into production yet, it would be a good idea to experiment until you have a good understanding of the details of managing this kind of cluster. You have plenty of room to make mistakes, if you have some spare time and you don't care about the data yet! -- Robert > This is my first attempt at using Itaniums in a cluster so I must be > missing a step > but I do not know what it is. > > Any help with this is greatly appreciated... > > > Thanks, > Carmine ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 09:45:54 -0700 From: Volker Halle Subject: Re: adding second IA64 to vms cluster Message-ID: <1185641154.608142.267220@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com> Carmine, you've probably answered YES to the 'Will the node be a satellite [Y]?' question. Therefore it wants to wait for the 2nd node to boot. Or you tried to specify a local disk on the 2nd node for paging/ swapping... If you just want to create a second (probably [SYS1]) root for the 2nd node on a FC shared system disk, just run @CLUSTER_CONFIG -> 1. Add node -> satellite ?: NO ... Specify the device name of the existing system disk and a new root [SYS1] for the 2nd system. The CLUSTER_CONIFG(_LAN) procedure will just create the root and the necessary files and will then exit back to DCL. Boot the 2nd node from the OpenVMS I64 OE DVD and run @SYS $MANAGER:BOOT_OPTIONS to specify the boot device (same as the other system, if you want a shared system disk). Make sure you specify the correct VMS_FLAGS value (most likely 1,0 for the 2nd node). Then boot the 2nd node form the SYS1 root of the shared system disk... Volker. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 13:53:15 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Advanced Server MAX_SMB_DATA_SIZE Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Ed Wilts [mailto:ed.wilts@gmail.com] > Sent: July 27, 2007 3:10 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Advanced Server MAX_SMB_DATA_SIZE > > On Jul 27, 12:19 pm, "Main, Kerry" wrote: > > Based on information I received, the limit is still 32768. > > Thanks Kerry! I had read the ITRC thread but didn't find the Ask > The > Wizard before your posting. > > Are there any downsides to setting a maximum smb data size of 32k > vs > 16k? We last changed it in 2002 so it might be time for an > update... > When is a smaller data size more appropriate? Memory consumption > is > not an issue - we have lots to spare. > > I don't think that changing it to 32k would help this particular > case > with the Cisco appliance but it doesn't hurt to get the parameters > set > right anyway. I've captured a trace that shows a negotiated > maximum > buffer size of 16448 and then the appliance asks for 65k and > naturally > Advanced Server says no (STATUS_BUFFER_TOO_SMALL). Cisco has the > traces to look at this now. > > Thanks again, > .../Ed > > mailto:ewilts@ewilts.org > Ed Wilts, RHCE, BCFP, BCSD Ed, No disadvantages that I am aware of. Fwiw, I use 32768 on my home lab serve= r running AS. Have not had any issues. As a suggestion, you might want to try some simple file copying tests with = different file sizes (small, medium, large) etc just to see what impact dif= ferent values have. Also, you might also try testing different file copying tests with the curr= ent and new parameters and see what the impact is. Just do not forget to do= the normal stuff like turning off disk high-water marking (assuming it is = not required) and making sure the target disk is not badly fragmented. An additional reference with performance tips: http://tinyurl.com/3aubfy (especially note the /nodelay_ack tip) Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 13:45:01 -0000 From: apogeusistemas@gmail.com Subject: Grab tool Message-ID: <1185630301.012728.294090@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> Hi: I=B4m trying install grab tool (from process.com) in my vax 5.5-2, but when I try execute @build procedure I get this output: $ if compiler .eqs. "VAXC" $ then define/user LNK$LIBRARY SYS$LIBRARY:VAXCRTL $ endif $ link/traceback grab, grab_cld, grab_msg %DCL-W-IVQUAL, unrecognized qualifier - check validity, spelling, and placement %DCL-W-IVQUAL, unrecognized qualifier - check validity, spelling, and placement Can you help me ? Thanks ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jul 2007 16:45:29 +0200 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: Grab tool Message-ID: <46ab72a9$1@news.langstoeger.at> In article <1185630301.012728.294090@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, apogeusistemas@gmail.com writes: >$ link/traceback grab, grab_cld, grab_msg >%DCL-W-IVQUAL, unrecognized qualifier - check validity, spelling, and >placement 1) /TRACEBACK is a valid qualifier for LINK. So look for a private (and wrong) definition for LINK. eg. HELP SET SYMBOL/SCOPE ! /SCOPE=(NOGLOBAL,NOLOCAL) 2) /TRACEBACK is default for LINK. Remove it. -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 07:54:26 -0700 From: apogeusistemas@gmail.com Subject: Re: Grab tool Message-ID: <1185634466.014872.5770@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> On 28 jul, 11:45, pe...@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) wrote: > In article <1185630301.012728.294...@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, apogeusiste...@gmail.com writes: > >$ link/traceback grab, grab_cld, grab_msg > >%DCL-W-IVQUAL, unrecognized qualifier - check validity, spelling, and > >placement > > 1) /TRACEBACK is a valid qualifier for LINK. > So look for a private (and wrong) definition for LINK. > > eg. HELP SET SYMBOL/SCOPE ! /SCOPE=(NOGLOBAL,NOLOCAL) > > 2) /TRACEBACK is default for LINK. Remove it. > > -- > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER > Network and OpenVMS system specialist > E-mail pe...@langstoeger.at > A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist Sorry, in the original procedure was : $ link/notraceback grab, grab_cld, grab_msg and I continue receiving this output: $ link/notraceback grab, grab_cld, grab_msg %DCL-W-IVQUAL, unrecognized qualifier - check validity, spelling, and placement %DCL-W-IVQUAL, unrecognized qualifier - check validity, spelling, and placement ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jul 2007 17:08:51 +0200 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: Grab tool Message-ID: <46ab7823$1@news.langstoeger.at> In article <1185634466.014872.5770@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>, apogeusistemas@gmail.com writes: >Sorry, in the original procedure was : > >$ link/notraceback grab, grab_cld, grab_msg > >and I continue receiving this output: >$ link/notraceback grab, grab_cld, grab_msg >%DCL-W-IVQUAL, unrecognized qualifier - check validity, spelling, and >placement $ SHOW SYMBOL LINK -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 17:00:46 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: Grab tool Message-ID: In article <1185630301.012728.294090@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, apogeusistemas@gmail.com wrote: > Hi: > I´m trying install grab tool (from process.com) in my vax 5.5-2, but > when > I try execute @build procedure I get this output: > > $ if compiler .eqs. "VAXC" > $ then define/user LNK$LIBRARY SYS$LIBRARY:VAXCRTL > $ endif > $ link/traceback grab, grab_cld, grab_msg > %DCL-W-IVQUAL, unrecognized qualifier - check validity, spelling, and > placement > %DCL-W-IVQUAL, unrecognized qualifier - check validity, spelling, and > placement > > Can you help me ? > Have you got link defined as a foreign command? -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 08:51:11 -0700 From: apogeusistemas@gmail.com Subject: Re: Grab tool Message-ID: <1185637871.287390.214700@l70g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On 28 jul, 12:00, "P. Sture" wrote: > In article <1185630301.012728.294...@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, > > > > > > apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: > > Hi: > > I=B4m trying install grab tool (from process.com) in my vax 5.5-2, but > > when > > I try execute @build procedure I get this output: > > > $ if compiler .eqs. "VAXC" > > $ then define/user LNK$LIBRARY SYS$LIBRARY:VAXCRTL > > $ endif > > $ link/traceback grab, grab_cld, grab_msg > > %DCL-W-IVQUAL, unrecognized qualifier - check validity, spelling, and > > placement > > %DCL-W-IVQUAL, unrecognized qualifier - check validity, spelling, and > > placement > > > Can you help me ? > > Have you got link defined as a foreign command? > > -- > Paul Sture > > Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks:http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookm= arks.html- Ocultar texto entre aspas - > > - Mostrar texto entre aspas - Thank you and sorry for my stupid error. Loooking in my login.com procedure I found this: VAX5 =BB sh sym link LI*NKS =3D=3D "@sys$login:links" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 13:33:52 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: itanium memory/page sizes Message-ID: <4BHqi.13$RS1.10@newsfe12.lga> I vaguely recall that the Itanium begins it's life with a 4Kb page size and that the EFI changes this page size. Is/was this true or do I have a short-circuit somewhere in my inter-cranial data banks? -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 10:06:42 -0400 From: Bill Todd Subject: Re: July the 4th Message-ID: Wow - when I called you a moron before, I considered it mild hyperbole. Now it's clear that it wasn't exaggerated in the slightest. The world would be considerably better off without self-satisfied, arrogant ignoramuses like you, Paul: you personify 'the ugly American', a species that seemed to be on the way to extinction a few decades ago but which now seems to have staged a major come-back. And you don't even have a clue that that's what you are (but of course that's a characteristic of the species as well). A while ago I observed that I'd pretty much accomplished what I set out to with respect to Itanic - making sure that whatever level of success it enjoyed would be based on whatever actual merits it could demonstrate rather than on the ridiculously free ride it was getting six years ago. And VMS is so clearly a completely lost cause now that wasting any more time on it would be silly (nor is there any remaining technical content of interest to me here: that's what happens when most development dies off). Now it's also clear that a large percentage of the contributors here are people with whom I wouldn't want to have anything to do with elsewhere. For a long time there was sufficient diversity in the group that I still considered it a community worth visiting, but so many of the sensible people have now apparently given up (either just on VMS or on the community itself) that even that has ceased to be the case. So enjoy your dwindling little stagnant cesspool of American smugness: you seem sufficiently beyond help that there's no reason for me to put up with the stink any more even as a public service. - bill Paul Raulerson wrote: >> Paul Raulerson wrote: >>> See, that is the way the U.S. works, we try to be respectful of other >>> people's beliefs, but we absolutely insist on the right to have our >>> individual beliefs respected too. And we back that right up with force of >>> arms. >> You can't tell others they can't have while the USA insists that it >> can have >> >> = nuclear, WMD's land mines, pollution etc etc etc. >> > > Of course we can, and have since around 1823 when the Monroe Doctrine came into play. At that was based on far older rules of precendence. > > A ICBM can reach any square mile of territory in the entire Western Hemisphere, it is a perfectly legal and justifiable extension of what began with the Monroe Doctine to take steps to avoid them landing anywhwere in our territory. It is just as valid for another power, say Russia, to want to defend their borders. Even countries like North and South Korea, who do it with landmines. > > It is NOT valid, not is it legal, for another power or an orgranization supported by another power, to crash airplanes into our building and kill our people, murder our soldiers with IED's, or what. > > >> The USA is *a* country of the planet. Not "THE" country of the planet. >> It deserves no speacial consideration and if it wants to be respected, >> it must adhere to what the world has decided via the UN. > > Horsehockey! By your lights all countries are equal and deserve exactly the same rights. Nothing could be further from the truth. What do you think would happen should the U.S. suddenly drop their forgein aid levels to that of say, Uganda? > > Or suppose we dropped out portion of financial support to the UN to that of Brazil? The UN is not a world government, it is a forum for the governments of the world to come to consensus. And the voice of those government is proportional to the funding provided to the UN by those governments. > > Take a look at the membership of the security council to verify that. > >> Someone else complained about my attitude towards your country. Does it >> not bother you that so many people in the world have come to hate what >> the USA has become ? Do you really believe your lying idiot politicians >> who claim that people hate the uSA simply because the USA has freedom ? > > Not in the least - they can have whatever opinion they care to, whether it be some careful, thought out opinion, or some opinion I think quite foolish. If they intend to *act* on those opinions in terms of military or terrorist ideas, then yes, it is worth looking into the "whys" and seeing if there are things that can be done to defuse the situation. But there are some groups out there that are just so crazy they demand that all of us agree with them and do things *their* way. > > Like separate bathrooms for Muslims... sheesh - *that* crap went out in the 1960's. And good riddance to it too! > > >> The reason the USA is so despised, the reason you have groups such as >> Al-Quada hell bent on hurting the USA is because the USA insists on >> disregarding what the planet wants and impose its own will on the world. > > Bull crap again. The reason is they are flat jealous of what we hav worked so hard to achieve, and what they are not jealous of, they are terrified by. How can so MANY diffrent races, ethnic groups, immigrant groups, and people with varied ethical, social, sexual, and religions beliefs possible live in the same country without shooting each other? And how can all of them be essentially *rich*? > > They cannot see the real, simple, answer in front of their noses. (*sigh*) > Your idea that there is some consensus of what "the planet wants" is a little on the ridiculous side too. Who specificly, is "the planet." > >> And the USA has now shows it is a very dangerous baby. UN didn't want to >> give Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz/Cheney's gift by refusing a resolution to allow >> them to send their army to Iraq, so they throw a tamper tantrum and go >> into Iraq anyways and enjoy the fireworks they created. > > You go that partly right. The US *is* dangerous. Very *very* dangerous. Just let you pals keep up their threats a bit longer, and the very most dangerous part of us will come to the forefront again. > > Your freinds seem to believe that the U.S. is not dangerous at all, and maybe safely twitted anytime they like. They are wrong. > > >> History has proven that when an invador deploys land mines, it never >> removes them when it leaves because it always ends up leaving in shame >> and fairly quickly. There are very good reasons why the rest of the >> world has banned the use of land mines. The USA has no business laying >> land mines outside its own territory. If it wants to have the burden of >> all the extra medical costs of taking care of americans maimed by land >> mines inside the USA, that it isn't business. But it has no business >> laying land mines outside its territory, forcing that country to then be >> burndened for *decades* by the high costs of taking care of the victims >> of the USA's short term use of landmines. > > Quite simply, your history is incomplete. Talk to North Korea, Iran, and most of North Africa about landmines. > > >> Do you realise that people are still getting maimed in Vietnam ? > > They can pay a good commercial company to come in and clean 'em up you know. But that would (gasp)cost MONEY, and not get them sympanthy. It would just keep their own people from getting killed. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 07:09:45 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: July the 4th Message-ID: <1185631785.621783.118190@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Jul 27, 1:13 pm, JF Mezei wrote: > Paul Raulerson wrote: > > See, that is the way the U.S. works, we try to be respectful of other > > people's beliefs, but we absolutely insist on the right to have our > > individual beliefs respected too. And we back that right up with force of > > arms. > > You can't tell others they can't have while the USA insists that it > can have > > = nuclear, WMD's land mines, pollution etc etc etc. You would prefer that MORE countries get atomic weapons? You would prefer that some other country had gotten atomic weapons first? Thank your lucky stars it was the United States that got them first. The problem with principles is that they sometimes have unintended consequences. As a superpower, the USA is pretty restrained compared to what it could do and to what many other countries would have done if they were a leading superpower or had gotten atomic weapons first. I don't recall the US forbidding anyone from using land mines, but I could just be unaware of it. No one wants pollution!!! What's your point there? > The USA is *a* country of the planet. Not "THE" country of the planet. > It deserves no speacial consideration and if it wants to be respected, > it must adhere to what the world has decided via the UN. > > Someone else complained about my attitude towards your country. Does it > not bother you that so many people in the world have come to hate what > the USA has become ? Do you really believe your lying idiot politicians > who claim that people hate the uSA simply because the USA has freedom ? Hmmm. Lots of people hate the French. Many hate the Jews. Others hate blacks. Still others hate Muslims. A lot of people hate terrorists. And you hate America and/or Americans. One reason some hate the USA is that it is so successful. This is a basic principle of human nature summed up by the saying, "No one ever kicks a dead dog". Yes, some hate the USA because of what the Bush administration has done. But going by who hates whom isn't a very good argument for your point. People are entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts. The USA also does a lot of good in the world, though it could and should do better. > The reason the USA is so despised, the reason you have groups such as > Al-Quada hell bent on hurting the USA is because the USA insists on > disregarding what the planet wants and impose its own will on the world. Hmmmm. This sounds a lot more like Al Qaida than the USA. I believe Osama was pissed off that their were US troops in Saudi Arabia. I really don't think bin Laden gives a rat's ass about what "the planet" wants. He wants to rule an Islamic empire and kill all the "infidels". He wants to oust the Saudi gov't. He wants to kill all Americans and Jews. This is what "the planet" wants? Maybe it's what YOU want! Just what exactly does "the planet" want and why do you call it "the planet"? > And the USA has now shows it is a very dangerous baby. UN didn't want to > give Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz/Cheney's gift by refusing a resolution to allow > them to send their army to Iraq, so they throw a tamper tantrum and go > into Iraq anyways and enjoy the fireworks they created. Yep. I'll let you in on a secret: Canada is next!!! So you better arm yourselves now!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 10:49:24 -0500 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: RE: July the 4th Message-ID: <000d01c7d12e$e127c810$a3775830$@com> Bill - you are to be pitied son.=20 I seriously suggest you get some help, preferably from someone who does = not share your hate filled ridiculous ultra-liberal ideas. I'll be glad = to send you the names and phone numbers of mental health professionals = in your area.=20 And you might want to read some real history - you live in what was once = the American Frontier. You could learn a lot from the attitudes of the = people that lived there. The world, and this country are far from the = simple place you imagine it to be, and the childish solutions you seem = to embrace are not solutions at all.=20 -Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@metrocast.net] > Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 9:07 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: July the 4th >=20 > Wow - when I called you a moron before, I considered it mild = hyperbole. > Now it's clear that it wasn't exaggerated in the slightest. >=20 > The world would be considerably better off without self-satisfied, > arrogant ignoramuses like you, Paul: you personify 'the ugly > American', > a species that seemed to be on the way to extinction a few decades ago > but which now seems to have staged a major come-back. >=20 > And you don't even have a clue that that's what you are (but of course > that's a characteristic of the species as well). >=20 > A while ago I observed that I'd pretty much accomplished what I set = out > to with respect to Itanic - making sure that whatever level of success > it enjoyed would be based on whatever actual merits it could > demonstrate > rather than on the ridiculously free ride it was getting six years = ago. > And VMS is so clearly a completely lost cause now that wasting any > more time on it would be silly (nor is there any remaining technical > content of interest to me here: that's what happens when most > development dies off). >=20 > Now it's also clear that a large percentage of the contributors here > are > people with whom I wouldn't want to have anything to do with = elsewhere. > For a long time there was sufficient diversity in the group that I > still considered it a community worth visiting, but so many of the > sensible people have now apparently given up (either just on VMS or on > the community itself) that even that has ceased to be the case. >=20 > So enjoy your dwindling little stagnant cesspool of American smugness: > you seem sufficiently beyond help that there's no reason for me to put > up with the stink any more even as a public service. >=20 > - bill >=20 > Paul Raulerson wrote: > >> Paul Raulerson wrote: > >>> See, that is the way the U.S. works, we try to be respectful of > other > >>> people's beliefs, but we absolutely insist on the right to have = our > >>> individual beliefs respected too. And we back that right up with > force of > >>> arms. > >> You can't tell others they can't have while the USA insists = that > it > >> can have > >> > >> =3D nuclear, WMD's land mines, pollution etc etc etc. > >> > > > > Of course we can, and have since around 1823 when the Monroe = Doctrine > came into play. At that was based on far older rules of precendence. > > > > A ICBM can reach any square mile of territory in the entire Western > Hemisphere, it is a perfectly legal and justifiable extension of what > began with the Monroe Doctine to take steps to avoid them landing > anywhwere in our territory. It is just as valid for another power, say > Russia, to want to defend their borders. Even countries like North and > South Korea, who do it with landmines. > > > > It is NOT valid, not is it legal, for another power or an > orgranization supported by another power, to crash airplanes into our > building and kill our people, murder our soldiers with IED's, or what. > > > > > >> The USA is *a* country of the planet. Not "THE" country of the > planet. > >> It deserves no speacial consideration and if it wants to be > respected, > >> it must adhere to what the world has decided via the UN. > > > > Horsehockey! By your lights all countries are equal and deserve > exactly the same rights. Nothing could be further from the truth. What > do you think would happen should the U.S. suddenly drop their forgein > aid levels to that of say, Uganda? > > > > Or suppose we dropped out portion of financial support to the UN to > that of Brazil? The UN is not a world government, it is a forum for = the > governments of the world to come to consensus. And the voice of those > government is proportional to the funding provided to the UN by those > governments. > > > > Take a look at the membership of the security council to verify = that. > > > >> Someone else complained about my attitude towards your country. = Does > it > >> not bother you that so many people in the world have come to hate > what > >> the USA has become ? Do you really believe your lying idiot > politicians > >> who claim that people hate the uSA simply because the USA has > freedom ? > > > > Not in the least - they can have whatever opinion they care to, > whether it be some careful, thought out opinion, or some opinion I > think quite foolish. If they intend to *act* on those opinions in = terms > of military or terrorist ideas, then yes, it is worth looking into the > "whys" and seeing if there are things that can be done to defuse the > situation. But there are some groups out there that are just so crazy > they demand that all of us agree with them and do things *their* way. > > > > Like separate bathrooms for Muslims... sheesh - *that* crap went out > in the 1960's. And good riddance to it too! > > > > > >> The reason the USA is so despised, the reason you have groups such > as > >> Al-Quada hell bent on hurting the USA is because the USA insists on > >> disregarding what the planet wants and impose its own will on the > world. > > > > Bull crap again. The reason is they are flat jealous of what we hav > worked so hard to achieve, and what they are not jealous of, they are > terrified by. How can so MANY diffrent races, ethnic groups, immigrant > groups, and people with varied ethical, social, sexual, and religions > beliefs possible live in the same country without shooting each other? > And how can all of them be essentially *rich*? > > > > They cannot see the real, simple, answer in front of their noses. > (*sigh*) > > Your idea that there is some consensus of what "the planet wants" is > a little on the ridiculous side too. Who specificly, is "the planet." > > > >> And the USA has now shows it is a very dangerous baby. UN didn't > want to > >> give Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz/Cheney's gift by refusing a resolution to > allow > >> them to send their army to Iraq, so they throw a tamper tantrum and > go > >> into Iraq anyways and enjoy the fireworks they created. > > > > You go that partly right. The US *is* dangerous. Very *very* > dangerous. Just let you pals keep up their threats a bit longer, and > the very most dangerous part of us will come to the forefront again. > > > > Your freinds seem to believe that the U.S. is not dangerous at all, > and maybe safely twitted anytime they like. They are wrong. > > > > > >> History has proven that when an invador deploys land mines, it = never > >> removes them when it leaves because it always ends up leaving in > shame > >> and fairly quickly. There are very good reasons why the rest of the > >> world has banned the use of land mines. The USA has no business > laying > >> land mines outside its own territory. If it wants to have the = burden > of > >> all the extra medical costs of taking care of americans maimed by > land > >> mines inside the USA, that it isn't business. But it has no = business > >> laying land mines outside its territory, forcing that country to > then be > >> burndened for *decades* by the high costs of taking care of the > victims > >> of the USA's short term use of landmines. > > > > Quite simply, your history is incomplete. Talk to North Korea, Iran, > and most of North Africa about landmines. > > > > > >> Do you realise that people are still getting maimed in Vietnam ? > > > > They can pay a good commercial company to come in and clean 'em up > you know. But that would (gasp)cost MONEY, and not get them sympanthy. > It would just keep their own people from getting killed. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 12:42:55 -0500 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: RE: July the 4th Message-ID: <000701c7d13e$bb5d9b40$3218d1c0$@com> Like I said, I feel very sorry for you, and really truly hope you get = some help soon. To live with such anger is not only painful, but hurts = nobody more than yourself and anyone close to you. There are people who = can help, go talk to them. -Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@metrocast.net] > Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 11:49 AM > To: Paul Raulerson > Cc: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: July the 4th >=20 > Paul Raulerson wrote: > > Bill - you are to be pitied son. > > > > I seriously suggest you get some help, preferably from someone who > does not share your hate filled ridiculous ultra-liberal ideas. >=20 > You fucking moron, I'm not even a liberal - not that you'd have a clue > about the difference between that and a progressive. I rejected a lot > of what traditional liberalism stood for long ago and even flirted = with > libertarianism for a while until its inability to avoid going to > ridiculous extremes became apparent. >=20 > ... >=20 > > And you might want to read some real history - you live in what was > once the American Frontier. >=20 > I've not only read about it, I heard about it as part of my up- > bringing: > I had ancestors on the Mayflower and at the first Constitutional > Convention, and I can assure you that their attitudes were = considerably > more akin to mine than to yours. >=20 > - bill ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 06:23:17 -0700 From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: unable to dispaly actual used size after RMS CONVERT to an indexed file Message-ID: <1185628997.562809.83410@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com> On Jul 27, 7:10 pm, 51 wrote: > > $ create/fdl=t.fdl t.ism > $ type t.ism > $ convert t.ism t1.ism > $ convert/fdl=t.fdl t.ism t2.ism > $ dir/size=all t*.ism > T.ISM;1 10008/10008 > T1.ISM;1 10008/10008 > T2.ISM;1 10008/10008 > Total of 3 files, 30024/30024 blocks. > $ I'm not sure about the first line of your procedure. Should't it be something like this: $ ana/rms/fdl=t.fdl t.ism You many also want to do this as a second step: $ edit/fdl t (then select INVOKE then select OPTIMIZE) Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 07:51:57 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: What does GEM mean? Message-ID: In article , John Reagan wrote: > Tom Linden wrote: > > > > > > Here is a bit of esoterica for you > > http://de.scientificcommons.org/20647427 click on the link (Verknüpfungen) > > > > Interesting. Arthur Sale's comments about Pascal where on a draft > standard. After that paper was published, the drafts (and eventual > standard) now allows underlines in identifiers. > > Back in the 1980s, some group inside of DEC did an Internationalization > study on VAX Pascal. They wanted the compiler to recognize upper and > lower case versions of the same "word" where the spellings were > different. For example, there are some French words that gain or loose > an accent when changing case (and sometimes only in Quebec). There are > German words like straße (5 chars long) and STRASSE (6 chars long). > They wanted the Pascal compiler to treat both spellings as the same > identifier. We passed around the report, got a good laugh, and shoved > it in a drawer (I think I still have it). An interesting story thanks. On a similar theme, in German it is accepted practice to use an "e" after the vowel instead of the umlaut for representation in block capitals, data entry - ae, oe, ue instead of ä, ö, ü. This also applies to e-mail and website addresses to get around keyboard, font and 7-bit limitations. Some database search engines such as address lookups match on either form, others don't. Out of interest, does anyone know how a match on either form is done? -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 07:53:50 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: What does GEM mean? Message-ID: In article , John Reagan wrote: > John Reagan wrote: > > > German words like straße (5 chars long) and STRASSE (6 chars long). > > and to compound the problem, I can't count. :-) And why would a compiler author need to? :-) -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 07:42:27 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: What does GEM mean? Message-ID: <46AB2BA3.7090100@comcast.net> P. Sture wrote: > In article , > John Reagan wrote: > > >>John Reagan wrote: >> >> >>>German words like straße (5 chars long) and STRASSE (6 chars long). >> >>and to compound the problem, I can't count. :-) > > > And why would a compiler author need to? :-) > Indeed! That's what computers are for! If God had meant us to count above twenty he would have given us more digits! ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 12:29:01 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: What does GEM mean? Message-ID: On 07/27/07 21:57, Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > Ron Johnson wrote: [snip] >> >> I wish American English spelling could be rationalized, but then >> children would need to learn the Old Way and the New Way, leaving >> even less time for important things like science and recess. >> > > It's been done. See http://www.rajeun.net/index4.html > ;-) I've read that kind of rationalization-taken-extreme article before. Very amusing and totally missing the point that English (being an accretion of Angle/Germanic, Saxon/French, Greek, Latin & Viking, with lots of words tossed in from Hindu, China, Spain, etc, etc ad nauseum) is a total mess, with more exceptions than Bill Clinton's promise to be faithful to his wife. English spelling *can* be made more rational. Not "perfect"; there would still be exceptions, but a lot fewer than there are now. Won't happen, though. Just as the year should start on June 1 (or Sept 1, or even April 1, since that's the *approximate* beginning of planting season for the majority of the world) and the day should begin at what is now 6AM. But there's too much momentum behind the current ways of doing things. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 12:53:34 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: What does GEM mean? Message-ID: On 07/28/07 06:42, Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > P. Sture wrote: >> In article , >> John Reagan wrote: >> >> >>> John Reagan wrote: >>> >>> >>>> German words like straße (5 chars long) and STRASSE (6 chars long). >>> >>> and to compound the problem, I can't count. :-) >> >> >> And why would a compiler author need to? :-) >> > > Indeed! That's what computers are for! If God had meant us to count > above twenty he would have given us more digits! ;-) Actually, according to linguists, the Big Intellectual Leap, unknown millennia ago, came at, variously, "two" or "three". They (or some...) assert that the most ancient forms of all studied languages had either ["one" and "many"] or ["one", "two" and "many"]. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.410 ************************