INFO-VAX Fri, 09 Mar 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 136 Contents: Re: Cluster connection lost when one link fails? Re: DNS- What I'm NOT doing wrong Re: DNS- What I'm NOT doing wrong Re: Experiences with Charon and Ingres 6.4? Re: Experiences with Charon and Ingres 6.4? GnuPG 1.4.7 for VMS Re: History of VMS and related operating systems Re: History of VMS and related operating systems Re: History of VMS and related operating systems Re: History of VMS and related operating systems Re: History of VMS and related operating systems Re: OT: IBM's Power to power Boeing's 787 Re: OT: IBM's Power to power Boeing's 787 Re: OT: IBM's Power to power Boeing's 787 Problem with sysdump.dmp Re: Problem with sysdump.dmp Re: Problem with sysdump.dmp Re: Problem with sysdump.dmp Re: PRODUCT INSTAL question Re: SAMBA on OpenVMS with OS X client Re: Sigma7 Re: Sigma7 Re: Sigma7 Re: Sigma7 Re: Sigma7 Re: Time zone/DST change question. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 9 Mar 2007 09:44:14 -0800 From: "Volker Halle" Subject: Re: Cluster connection lost when one link fails? Message-ID: <1173462254.596696.149680@64g2000cwx.googlegroups.com> Roy, this is the first available/released patch solving this problem and it does list the affected LAN drivers. You will have to wait for a patch for your OpenVMS operating system version and architecture or escalate the problem to obtain a pre-release patch. Volker. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 17:42:37 +0100 From: Paul Sture Subject: Re: DNS- What I'm NOT doing wrong Message-ID: In article <45F0C43E.A18B3AA8@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera wrote: > Paul Sture wrote: > > >> > > As Tad says, it's not just a GUI, but can give you the console. My use > > for it was to control my Windows box from my VAXstation. In conjunction > > with the VNC client on the VS, I had the VNC server on the Windows > > system. > > > > As long as Windows was up, I could do everything short of changing > > floppies without needing the Windows monitor/keyboard/mouse in front of > > me. > > ...and how does that differ from Windows Remote Desktop (Terminal Services > client)? > > ...or are you saying that it "sort of" did the iLO thing? Ah, I didn't realise that Terminal Services client meant Remote Desktop. I haven't used that so cannot compare them. One thing I forgot to add was that IIRC, performance was fine on the VAXstation 3100, but not very good on the Alpha. I put down to the Elsa Gloria card, and carried on using the VAXstation. -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: 9 Mar 2007 18:35:27 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: DNS- What I'm NOT doing wrong Message-ID: <55dnnfF24jp8kU1@mid.individual.net> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article , sol gongola writes: > >> VNC is like pcanywhere. You take over the desktop but someone >> at the computer itself can monitor your activity. > > "Take over" is a bit strong. Someone sitting at the system can still > enter data and move the mouse. And it works on systems that are not > PCs. And, server behaviour is different depending on the platform. While on a PC you get a second connection to the console, on a Unix/X11 system you get a window all your own which can be shared, but is not the same as your existing desktop. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 09:26:24 +0100 From: "nst" Subject: Re: Experiences with Charon and Ingres 6.4? Message-ID: <45f11a60$1@news.arcor-ip.de> Hello from Munich, CHARON-VAX on Windows and Ingres 6.x no problem. There is a previous version support from HP for OpenVMS 5.5-2 on CHARONN-VAX Ingres 6.x is out of service With the new disk drives and storage controllers you will see a speed up of your IO Norbert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 11:13:32 -0000 From: "Roy Hann" Subject: Re: Experiences with Charon and Ingres 6.4? Message-ID: <1KKdnVgnNarA3GzYnZ2dnUVZ8sCsnZ2d@pipex.net> wrote in message news:12v1jq56ul1sca8@corp.supernews.com... > We're currently running Ingres 6.4/06 applications (ABF, embedded SQL, > embedded QUEL, VAX C 3.1) on VAX 7820s running VMS 5.5-2. We're looking > at modernizing and are considering various things including emulation, > migration. With the Ingres port to Itanium not due until December, that > option has moved to the back burner. > > Does anyone have any experiences they'd like to share running Ingres 6.4 > apps on a Charon-VAX emulator under Windows, Linux, VMS (Itanium, > Alpha), etc.? Is there support from any vendor for such a thing? Last year we did a migration of a government system using exactly that mix of software off a VAX 7400 to Windows 2003 in about a month. Now anyone will tell you that Windows is not my favorite platform, but the customer claimed to want it, so we did it. It took about a month to resolve their source code control issues, and another month to write bits and pieces that are standard in VMS but missing from Windows. But the actual application migration only took a month. It has been absolutely rock solid ever since. The ABF code compiled without a single incident that I can remember (apart from idiot mistakes of my own). Incidentally, what made the migration all the more remarkable, was that we moved the ABF applications off the server onto the client workstations because Windows doesn't have a usable telnet server. I give ABF all the credit for the ease with which that was accomplished! If we could move from VMS to Windows that easily, it shouldn't be all that hard to move to anything that is stable. So your real problem is more about how stable your intended target platform is. Ah QUEL. Happy days... Roy Hann (rhann at rationalcommerce dot com) Rational Commerce Ltd. www.rationalcommerce.com Ingres Partner ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 09:55:38 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: GnuPG 1.4.7 for VMS Message-ID: <07030909553889_2020028F@antinode.org> Anyone interested in GnuPG (1.4.7) for VMS (or merely desperate for entertainment) might wish to consider: http://antinode.org/dec/sw/gnupg.html No big new features, just some source restructuring and, I assume, a few bug fixes. No new VMS-specific stuff. If you thought that 1.4.5 and 1.4.6 weren't tested much, just wait until you try 1.4.7. As always, complaints are welcome. If anyone is actually using this stuff, I'd like to hear about it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 17:20:44 +0800 From: Paul Repacholi Subject: Re: History of VMS and related operating systems Message-ID: <87r6ryg4cz.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com> "UnderMine" writes: > I am not sure but was there any link between VAXELN and RT-11? A > number of documents mention both together but I am not sure whether > this just is because both were real time enviroments able to run > Pascal or whether there was actually a link between the two. VAXeln had NO predecessor in the wild. It is a totally unique OS. The only `link' with RT was the Eln would be used in the sort of situation the RT was used for. It had almost nothing in common with VMS, your code lived in P1, not P0, and you had a for then unique data/thread sharing. Also tasks could be (almost) transparently spread over multiple systems. Oh, and it had MSCP, DECnet etc in the standard libries ass well. Later on, almost all of X as well. Went like the wind! RBDEln could almost turn 50 odd RA81s to slag running on an 8200. With CPU to spare I might add. ------------ And now a word from our sponsor ------------------ Want to have instant messaging, and chat rooms, and discussion groups for your local users or business, you need dbabble! -- See http://netwinsite.com/sponsor/sponsor_dbabble.htm ---- ------------------------------ Date: 9 Mar 2007 11:43:45 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: History of VMS and related operating systems Message-ID: <55cvjhF211tnhU1@mid.individual.net> In article <87r6ryg4cz.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi writes: > > VAXeln had NO predecessor in the wild. It is a totally unique OS. The > only `link' with RT was the Eln would be used in the sort of situation > the RT was used for. Just out of curiosity, can you still get VAXeln? You can still get RT!! :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 9 Mar 2007 07:47:25 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: History of VMS and related operating systems Message-ID: <70KrawTeCHfi@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <1173376224.510539.188110@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com>, "UnderMine" writes: > > I am not sure but was there any link between VAXELN and RT-11? A > number of documents mention both together but I am not sure whether > this just is because both were real time enviroments able to run > Pascal or whether there was actually a link between the two. IIRC RT-11 was before MicroPower PASCAL on the PDP-11. The only link I know of between RT-11 and VMS was the VAX-11/78x console, which seemed to be an RT-11 derivative and used the RT-11 floppy format. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 07:19:06 -0700 From: Dan O'Reilly Subject: Re: History of VMS and related operating systems Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20070309071644.0767c120@192.168.0.11> At 06:47 AM 3/9/2007, Bob Koehler wrote: >In article <1173376224.510539.188110@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com>, >"UnderMine" writes: > > > > I am not sure but was there any link between VAXELN and RT-11? A > > number of documents mention both together but I am not sure whether > > this just is because both were real time enviroments able to run > > Pascal or whether there was actually a link between the two. > > IIRC RT-11 was before MicroPower PASCAL on the PDP-11. The only > link I know of between RT-11 and VMS was the VAX-11/78x console, > which seemed to be an RT-11 derivative and used the RT-11 floppy format. A derivative of RT-11 was also used in the HSC controllers. I nearly took a job with the HSC group in the early 80's but was so used to extra beeper pay while working at the CSC (it was the TSC at the time) that I couldn't afford the pay cut . ------ +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+ | Dan O'Reilly | "There are 10 types of people in this | | Principal Engineer | world: those who understand binary | | Process Software | and those who don't." | | http://www.process.com | | +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 19:04:14 GMT From: John Reagan Subject: Re: History of VMS and related operating systems Message-ID: Tom Linden wrote: > > > I'm curious what you mean by the politics. People who didn't like each other or thought the others were hacks. -- John Reagan HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO/COBOL for OpenVMS Project Leader Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 09:02:19 +0100 From: Michael Unger Subject: Re: OT: IBM's Power to power Boeing's 787 Message-ID: <55ciujF2441kgU1@mid.individual.net> On 2007-03-09 02:28, "JF Mezei" wrote: > [...] >=20 > For its 787, in order to save weigth and power demand, Boeing's contrac= tor has=20 > decided to consolidate many cockpit systems together. It will be PowerP= C based,=20 > running Wind River Systems=92 VxWorks 653 real-time operating system (= RTOS) which=20 > will support many applications in the cockpit (about 80 different funct= ions). I am not aware of "VxWorks for Alpha". > [...] >=20 > Imagine if Alpha were still alive and had won that contract to supply t= he=20 > systems to Boeing. I am not aware of any _low_ power Alpha chip. You most probably won't find an Itanic chip in these applications either. Michael --=20 Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 17:34:14 +0800 From: Paul Repacholi Subject: Re: OT: IBM's Power to power Boeing's 787 Message-ID: <87mz2mg3qh.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com> Rick Jones writes: > Not sure just how exciting that would be from a numbers perspective. Very, when you get to see the one with the $ as first char... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 12:06:22 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: OT: IBM's Power to power Boeing's 787 Message-ID: <7293b$45f19429$cef8887a$6123@TEKSAVVY.COM> Robert Deininger wrote: > Once again, it's not the CPU that matters, its the applications. This > isn't a Power win, it's a VxWorks win. It is a Power win in the sense that Aircraft are expected to last around 20 years at the very least. Selecting Power means that Boeing and its subcontractors have reasonable expectation that Power will remain available for at least that long. This is different from J-stars where a specific number of aircraft are built with VMS in it and then expected to fly for 20 years. Boeing will be building new 787 for 20 years. And note that VxWorks is available on multiple platforms, including the industry standard. So selecting Power instead of an 8086 derivative is a significant win. Imagine what Sue could do with marketing at presentations if she could have announced that Boeing 787s ran on Alphas. It would also be interesting to see just how "real time" VxWorks is when you load it up with a number of different applications. (And whether VMS might have been usable in such a circumstance) ------------------------------ Date: 9 Mar 2007 03:40:16 -0800 From: "mb301@hotmail.com" Subject: Problem with sysdump.dmp Message-ID: <1173440416.276653.299250@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com> Have manually created a dumpfile of the system disk. Everytime we run autogen it creates another file which is 1 block in size. $ DIR $1$DGA77:[SYS0.SYSEXE]SYSDUMP.DMP Directory $1$DGA77:[SYS0.SYSEXE] SYSDUMP.DMP;1 1764612/1764697 $ @sys$update:autogen getdata setparams check_feedback . . %AUTOGEN-I-NEWFILE, A new version of SYS$SYSTEM:SETPARAMS.DAT has been created. You may wish to purge this file. %AUTOGEN-I-END, GENPARAMS phase has successfully completed. %AUTOGEN-I-BEGIN, GENFILES phase is beginning. %SYSGEN-I-CREATED, $1$DGA77:[SYS0.SYSEXE]SYSDUMP.DMP;2 created $ DIR $1$DGA77:[SYS0.SYSEXE]SYSDUMP.DMP Directory $1$DGA77:[SYS0.SYSEXE] SYSDUMP.DMP;2 1/147 Why it autogen calculating the wrong file? $ SH MEM/PHY System Memory Resources on 9-MAR-2007 11:32:38.17 Physical Memory Usage (pages): Total Free In Use Modified Main Memory (8192.00Mb) 1048576 981947 63731 2898 ------------------------------ Date: 9 Mar 2007 04:23:18 -0800 From: "Ian Miller" Subject: Re: Problem with sysdump.dmp Message-ID: <1173442998.057423.260480@c51g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> is the name of the dump file in its off system disk location in MODPARAMS.DAT ? ------------------------------ Date: 9 Mar 2007 04:40:24 -0800 From: "mb301@hotmail.com" Subject: Re: Problem with sysdump.dmp Message-ID: <1173444024.518003.110080@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com> On 9 Mar, 12:23, "Ian Miller" wrote: > is the name of the dump file in its off system disk location in > MODPARAMS.DAT ? Have DUMPFILE_DEVICE = "$1$DGA77" DUMPSTYLE = 13 ! compress select off system disk DUMPBUG = 1 DUMPFILE = 1 Am I right in think you can't use autogen to create the dumpfile to the correct size? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 15:02:14 GMT From: "Colin Butcher" Subject: Re: Problem with sysdump.dmp Message-ID: I tend to set the files up manually, then ensure that AUTOGEN keeps it's hands off with the following lines in MODPARAMS.DAT: PAGEFILE = 0 SWAPFILE = 0 DUMPFILE = 0 Create the file sizes you want with SYSGEN> CREATE /SIZE=/CONTIG Works much faster if you turn high-water marking off before creating the files. -- Cheers, Colin. Legacy = Stuff that works properly! ------------------------------ Date: 9 Mar 2007 08:53:55 +0100 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: PRODUCT INSTAL question Message-ID: <45f120a3$1@news.langstoeger.at> In article <59567$45f07ed5$cef8887a$15355@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: >OK, never mind. Even if I do a PRODUCT INSTALL without the /NORECOVERY, it warns >me that the recovery data from the previous patch will be zapped. Yes, installing a full kit will always zap the recovery data of patch kits. And a full kit has no recovery data to save (despite a "/SAVE_RECOVERY_DATA"). You can see if the kit you want to install is a full kit or an ECO kit on the file name. "*-1.PCSI*" is a full kit, "*-4.PCSI*" is an update one. Eg. TCPIP V5.5ECO1/V5.5ECO2 are both full kits, not ECO kits for TCPIP V5.5 So, if you install more than one kit at a session (before rebooting), you better start with deleting the old recovery data, then installing all VMSINSTAL ones (yes, they still exists, eg. DFG), then all full kits and at last all update ones (like VMS ECOs). >Is it correct to assume that only the most recently applied patch can be rolled >back with that recovery data ? You can roll back (with PRODUCT UNDO PATCH - still doesn't exist on VAX) as many ECO kit installations as you have recovery data saved (PRODUCT SHOW RECOVERY_DATA). But only one by one and starting with the last (named 1). HIH -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 15:51:35 +0100 From: Paul Sture Subject: Re: SAMBA on OpenVMS with OS X client Message-ID: In article <00A64496.00E5355A@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > And here is the ODS-5 drive, directories and files in question: > > $ DIRECTORY/SECURITY DSA5:[000000]GigsOfPixOfGigs.dir > > Directory DSA5:[000000] > > GigsOfPixOfGigs.DIR;1 > [DEFAULT] (RWE,RWE,RE,RE) > >$ DIRECTORY/SECURITY DSA5:[GigsOfPixOfGigs.Squyrm]test.txt > >Directory DSA5:[GigsOfPixOfGigs.Squyrm] > >test.txt;1 [FAMILY,SQUYRM] (RWD,RWD,RWD,RWD) > > >Looks, from a protection/access point of view like both are more or less >identical. In fact, the ODS-5 protection masks are even less strict. Agreed. The immediate difference from my setup that I see is that you have multiple users, and I don't. When I do let someone else have at my Apache document area I use ACLs to grant access, and as we know, the current release of Samba doesn't handle them. > I'm convinced! Samba simply does not function with ODS-5 volumes. I > tried to copy a folder to the ODS-5 share and it too pukes. And I managed to do that. This time however, I created a non-admin user on the Mac side and used that. sturep as the Samba username to connect, and all those files which previous belonged to "sturep, admin" now list as belonging to "fred admin". I would like to see some documentation on how OSX / Samba maps to VMS file protections and usernames. I'm not entirely convinced that there isn't some problem on the OS X side as well. > To whomever is working on this at HP, Samba has got to work with ODS-5 > volume shares. > Roundly seconded. -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: 9 Mar 2007 07:42:10 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Sigma7 Message-ID: In article <55ba2kF23j9cfU1@mid.individual.net>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > It's worse than that. I understand out newest professor happened to walk > by the office when the woman from the Registrar's Office was handing the > tape to my boss. He looked at it and asked what it was!! My first job after grad school used 20 year old IBM 360 and we did all our programming via card decks. When I mentioned how old this technology was to one of our quality assuance folk he asked what we would submit for changes if we didn't have cards, tapes? Then another project got some VAX-11/780 and I fled to it, where I spent several happy years submitting changes on 1600 BPI BACKUP tapes, and using print/remote to access our only mixed case band printer when I wrote reports. ------------------------------ Date: 9 Mar 2007 07:43:10 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Sigma7 Message-ID: In article , Keith Parris writes: > Chris Scheers wrote: >> When you say Sigma-7, do you mean CP-V? > > CP-V was the operating system which ran on the Sigma. CP-6 came later > under Honeywell. IIRC we ran RBM. ------------------------------ Date: 9 Mar 2007 13:50:43 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Sigma7 Message-ID: <55d71jF23e2pfU1@mid.individual.net> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article <55b79kF24due4U1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >> That's pretty much what I told them this morning. Although, given what >> data they were looking for, it would have been possible to write the >> data to a tape in an agnostic way so that any hardware that could read >> the tape could return it to the user in a format that would at least >> allow them to manipulate it manually. > > Once upon a time we used 80 byte EBCDIC card images on 800 BPI > 9-track drives as something we could "read anywhere". Now I know > of one system that could read such a tape. Yeah, mine!!! :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 16:09:59 +0100 From: Paul Sture Subject: Re: Sigma7 Message-ID: In article <55b4vfF204aguU2@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > It does bring up an interesting point, however. In looking in their > vault it is apparent that numerous tapes were kept from the IBM > system that was the next in line (followed by a VAX). But, if the data > center no longer has the hardware to read them, what good are they? :-) A project I got involved in about 15 years ago involved scanning a load of legal documents onto optical WORM discs. I wonder if any hardware and software still exists to read those discs. -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: 9 Mar 2007 07:37:18 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Sigma7 Message-ID: In article <55b79kF24due4U1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > That's pretty much what I told them this morning. Although, given what > data they were looking for, it would have been possible to write the > data to a tape in an agnostic way so that any hardware that could read > the tape could return it to the user in a format that would at least > allow them to manipulate it manually. Once upon a time we used 80 byte EBCDIC card images on 800 BPI 9-track drives as something we could "read anywhere". Now I know of one system that could read such a tape. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 18:25:48 +0100 From: Paul Sture Subject: Re: Time zone/DST change question. Message-ID: In article <3f587$45f0662b$cef8887a$9473@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei wrote: > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: > > Modems -- who cares? What would they do with the time of day if they > > knew what time of day it was? > > Ever looked at modern DSL modems ? They have a cli and facilities more > complex than VMS. My new one, yet to be fully tested even support HTTPS > configuration, and the CLI had a gazillion commands and subcommands. And > one important (to me) function is the ability to send mesages to a SYSLOG > server when the sync is lost or if someone is trying to access it with > bad password. (FTP, TELNET, HTTP, HTTPS, SNMP etc). > Heh, the User Guide for my DSL modem is 163 pages, 19 of which are the title page and list of contents, figures and tables. It has its own OS. 5 years old, so no web interface, but who cares, as it has a serial port? > And its clock can be synchronised via NTP. > I've got an all in one printer / scanner / fax / camera card reader which uses NTP. I certainly wasn't expecting that. -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.136 ************************