INFO-VAX Tue, 13 Feb 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 87 Contents: Re: Alpha to Integrity porting workshops - who's been? Re: DST changes and VMS 7.2 Re: Guidelines for converting programs to ODS-5? Re: Intel 80 core chip revealed in full detail Re: Intel 80 core chip revealed in full detail Re: Intel 80 core chip revealed in full detail Looking for hobbyists in or around Little Rock, Arkansas Make 1million in 6 weeks or less Re: Mark Daniel and/or Hein van den Huevel or anyone really Re: Mark Daniel and/or Hein van den Huevel or anyone really Re: Migrating C application from VMS to LINUX Re: Migrating C application from VMS to LINUX Need Itanium OpenVMS 8.3 Imagemagick Re: Need Itanium OpenVMS 8.3 Imagemagick Re: OSU HTTP server on Itanium Re: small ISP startup Re: small ISP startup Re: small ISP startup Re: small ISP startup Re: small ISP startup Re: small ISP startup Re: Understanding DSL10L cabinet/hardware Re: Understanding DSL10L cabinet/hardware Re: Understanding DSL10L cabinet/hardware Re: Understanding DSL10L cabinet/hardware Re: Understanding DSL10L cabinet/hardware ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:02:39 -0600 From: Chris Scheers Subject: Re: Alpha to Integrity porting workshops - who's been? Message-ID: <53bvenF1rugonU1@mid.individual.net> JF Mezei wrote: > Question: > > From a user mode application point of view, do those porting workshops > teach attendees anything ? > > Or is it more of a question of attendees playing on their IA64 box and a > supervisor answering questions as they proceed with their compiles and > may find the new compiler has differences ? > > I can see some teaching required for writing drivers and other kernel > level stuff. And I can see some system management stuff sicne there are > differences (especially with regards to EFI and managing EFI partition > etc). > > I take it that an attendee is expected to bring his/her applications to > the workshop and do the porting there ? If so, on what sort of media > should the apps be brought ? I brought a VAXstation 4000VLC with my code and build environment. I attached it to the Itanium with a crossover cable and ran DECnet between them. Surprisingly, it worked. It also made it very easy to do comparisons. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc. Voice: 817-237-3360 Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com Fax: 817-237-3074 ------------------------------ Date: 12 Feb 2007 19:09:13 -0800 From: heywood.floyd@yahoo.com Subject: Re: DST changes and VMS 7.2 Message-ID: <1171336153.403631.269620@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com> On Feb 7, 3:58 pm, "DaveG" wrote: > On Feb 7, 1:28 pm, dhutchings > > > > > mx.forums.yourdomain.com.au> wrote: > > Hi there - the company I work for has a pair of VAXen running OpenVMS > > 7.2. I understand that's out of support and as such has noDSTpatch > > created for it. > > > My plan is to submit jobs that will change the time at the appropriate > > dates. Unfortunately, this will require that each year I'm going to > > have to remember to modify those jobs with the upcoming year's newDST > > change dates. Also, I can't seem to find a way to turn offDST > > processing in 7.2 so I'll probably have to create two other jobs that > > run on the regularDSTdates (again, modified each year) to re-set the > > time. > > > What are others doing for VMS 7.2 and the upcomingDSTchanges? > > > -- > > dhutchings > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > dhutchings's Profile:http://techiegroups.com/member.php?userid=2640 > > View this thread:http://www.techiegroups.com/showthread.php?t=126695 > > In case you haven't seen this, the OpenVMS FAQ can help: > > Here's a link to the Time chapter: > > http://hoffmanlabs.org/vmsfaq/vmsfaq_004.html#faq_time > > Dave...- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Timezone files for unsupported versions of VMS can be downloaded from: System: hprc.external.hp.com Login: tz Password: timezone (NOTE: CASE-sensitive) FTP Access: ftp://tz:timezone@hprc.external.hp.com/ Heywood.Floyd@yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 19:00:10 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Guidelines for converting programs to ODS-5? Message-ID: <45D10D9A.48AB8E09@spam.comcast.net> JF Mezei wrote: > > >> For adding ODS-5 feature access from a program, I've conditionally > >> compiled my RMS code for VAX vs. other, using NAM vs. NAML. > > Note that an Alpha can have access to ODS2 disks as well. So an alpha > executable shouldn't assume ODS5 for everything. > > Another reason why I keep suggesting that VMS should have a "make valid > file name" function (perhaps an item code in SYS$PARSE) that would ensure > the file name is converted to a valid form for the target disk depending on > its structure. This way, programs could allow input of any file name, and > use that service to convert the file name into a valid one for the target > device. How do you convert it back? -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 21:16:33 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Intel 80 core chip revealed in full detail Message-ID: <9f881$45d11f9e$cef8887a$7993@TEKSAVVY.COM> Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > They are currently behind Intel in the commodity market. Intel and AMD are in a tight race. Some times Intel will be ahead,=20 sometimes AMD will be ahead. The big question now is whether AMD will stay in the "I leap ahead, you=20 lead ahead" cycles, or whether its recent period of being ahead of Intel = was a single blip and AMD won't be able to beat Intel again. But even if AMD doesn't consisently beat Intel at regular intervals, the = gap between the two will force Intel to continue to focus on improving th= e=20 8086 to stay ahead of AMD. And that means resources will be assigned to t= he=20 8086, not that IA64 thing. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 21:46:48 -0500 From: "Neil Rieck" Subject: Re: Intel 80 core chip revealed in full detail Message-ID: <45d119fd$0$16359$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> "JF Mezei" wrote in message news:9f881$45d11f9e$cef8887a$7993@TEKSAVVY.COM... Arne Vajhøj wrote: > They are currently behind Intel in the commodity market. > >Intel and AMD are in a tight race. Some times Intel will be ahead, >sometimes AMD will be ahead. > >The big question now is whether AMD will stay in the "I leap ahead, you >lead ahead" cycles, or whether its recent period of being ahead of Intel >was a single blip and AMD won't be able to beat Intel again. > >But even if AMD doesn't consisently beat Intel at regular intervals, the >gap between the two will force Intel to continue to focus on improving the >8086 to stay ahead of AMD. And that means resources will be assigned to the >8086, not that IA64 thing. > Yep it's a Darwinian thing. x86-64 competition between Intel and AMD will ensure that x86-64 will get stronger + faster, quicker. Mean while, Itanium2 will die off like the Neanderthals. Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 22:28:56 -0500 From: "Neil Rieck" Subject: Re: Intel 80 core chip revealed in full detail Message-ID: <45d123dd$0$16364$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> RE: Intel 80 core chip revealed in full detail Here's another article: http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,2093952,00.asp?kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 21:41:50 GMT From: Tad Winters Subject: Looking for hobbyists in or around Little Rock, Arkansas Message-ID: Please email me if you live in the Little Rock, Arkansas area and would benefit from some hardware to run OpenVMS. There is an Alphaserver 1000A 5/300, pedestal system available at no cost to someone who can come pick it up. Other than having removed the disk drives, this system works fine. It has at least 128 MB of memory and may have 384 MB. The current owner will not expend resources to ship the system. The weight of this system is probably near 100 pounds. I cannot say whether this system contains a VGA adapter, but it certainly supports some PCI adapters. This system _was_ running OpenVMS V6.2-x. I expect the internal StorageWorks backplane is still attached to a KZPSC RAID controller. Remove the .no.spam in order to send to me and put "hobbyist" in the subject so that I can pick it out of the folder if it gets put there as spam. Since I'm not located in Arkansas, I'll contact you with details on how to make arrangements with the current owner. Tad ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 23:47:05 GMT From: Sam Wortzberg Subject: Make 1million in 6 weeks or less Message-ID: Legal Consultants http://legal-rx.blogspot.com/index.html will show you how to make 1 million in less than 6 weeks! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 08:06:05 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Mark Daniel and/or Hein van den Huevel or anyone really Message-ID: Hi David, > While I understand that sentiment, it seems there's been a fair amount > of time spent getting it to work with this script! WASD only takes a > few minutes to install, and once configured, will run quite nicely > with no trouble at all. There's no much configuration you'd need, > just dump your .jar files into HT_ROOT:[000000] and you're off. Maybe I should also be JAVACing the code in situ on VMS in the first place an eliminating the possibility of original UCX/FTP corruption? (I see 1.5 is finally available on VMS but requires 7.3-something and I'm on 7.2-2. Maybe I should just upgrade VMS while I'm at it?) Or just maybe one of the annointed ones who are getting paid a fortune to port Java-minus-n to VMS could spare a couple of bucks for possibly a paragraph (or perhaps just one or two lines) about support for class and archive files developed on other platforms and just being hosted/residing of VMS. "How to copy 'foreign' Java files to VMS and what RMS attributes to set for which browsers". Yep, I reakon that's worth a paragraph. As I've said previously, I will get around to talking to IE without RMS in the middle and try to discover what it wants. But I'm sure you're right and WASD will fix it all. (Which version? Have you tested it?) Maybe Apache? That's got support! But Hoff says it's an abomination to call $getuai from inner-mode. What to do . . . what to do? I know what; I reakon I should just concentrate on the Java client example and worry about installing all this bloatware on VMS later. Regards Richard Maher PS. Imagine if you didn't really need Java on VMS at all, and all this money was just being pissed up against a wall like the oodles wasted on DECforms, Bridgeworks, Forte, DCE/RPC, ONC/RPC. Rally, DECAdmire and on and on and bloody ON! Someone say something about "big heavyweight ball and chain"? PPS. What's an IDE and how many of them support VMS? Yeah DECset! What happened to EDS again? wrote in message news:1170825362.950436.214610@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com... > On Feb 5, 6:37 pm, "Richard Maher" > wrote: > > I really don't want to have to install and maintain a full-blown Webserver > > just to test my applets so if someone knows of a SYSGEN, TCP/IP or Quota I > > should be looking at and adjusting then please let me know! > > While I understand that sentiment, it seems there's been a fair amount > of time spent getting it to work with this script! WASD only takes a > few minutes to install, and once configured, will run quite nicely > with no trouble at all. There's no much configuration you'd need, > just dump your .jar files into HT_ROOT:[000000] and you're off. > ------------------------------ Date: 12 Feb 2007 17:36:30 -0800 From: davidc@montagar.com Subject: Re: Mark Daniel and/or Hein van den Huevel or anyone really Message-ID: <1171330590.409373.55570@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com> On Feb 12, 6:06 pm, "Richard Maher" wrote: > Hi David, Didn't think that called for a rant. You're having an issue getting DCL to play web server, and it just seemed to me that if you are wanting something to play web server, maybe using a web server would work. That installing WASD would likely take less time and effort, and work more reliably, since DCL hasn't seemed to. This doesn't really have anything specifically to do with VMS, just a general "Use the right tool for the job". If you were fiddling around with a bash script trying to do the same thing, I'd suggest Apache or HTTPLite, rather than trying to get bash and a handful of command line tools work. > Maybe I should also be JAVACing the code in situ on VMS in the first place > an eliminating the possibility of original UCX/FTP corruption? (I see 1.5 is > finally available on VMS but requires 7.3-something and I'm on 7.2-2. Maybe > I should just upgrade VMS while I'm at it?) Not sure what that has to do with the actual serving of the files. If you want to know if the file is corrupted on OpenVMS though, just use "UNZIP -l" or "UNZIP -t" on the file, and see if unzip can handle it correctly. After all, that's what a jar file really is, is just a zip file of all the class files. There are unzip executables for OpenVMS from a variety of places. > Or just maybe one of the annointed ones who are getting paid a fortune to > port > Java-minus-n to VMS could spare a couple of bucks for possibly a paragraph > (or perhaps just one or two lines) about support for class and archive files > developed on other platforms and just being hosted/residing of VMS. At this point, the problem doesn't seem to be with hosting of the file on OpenVMS, but uploading to IE via a DCL command procedure implementing http. > "How to copy 'foreign' Java files to VMS and what RMS attributes to set for > which browsers". Yep, I reakon that's worth a paragraph. As I've said > previously, I will get around to talking to IE without RMS in the middle and > try to discover what it wants. Well, since you're using SYS$NET and RMS-based tools, rather than a web server, you have two places where RMS may or may not be getting in your way - treatment of the original file (supposedly transfered as "binary") and treatment of SYS$NET, which RMS still wants to treat as a record oriented device. > But I'm sure you're right and WASD will fix it all. (Which version? Have you > tested it?) Maybe Apache? That's got support! But Hoff says it's an > abomination to call $getuai from inner-mode. What to do . . . what to do? I > know what; I reakon I should just concentrate on the Java client example and > worry about installing all this bloatware on VMS later. I've used WASD on several systems to transfer many different types of files to a variety of browsers with excellent success. ZIP files have worked just fine, and since jar files are just zip files with a .jar suffix, I have little doubt it would work. I'd suggest using the most recent version, since you asked. I have no idea what $getuai has to do with your issue of serving up jar files, though. I suggested WASD since it works on the widest selection of OpenVMS versions and architectures (Apache, not as much) and pretty much works out of the box. > PS. Imagine if you didn't really need Java on VMS at all, and all this money > was just being pissed up against a wall like the oodles wasted on DECforms, > Bridgeworks, Forte, DCE/RPC, ONC/RPC. Rally, DECAdmire and on and on and > bloody ON! Someone say something about "big heavyweight ball and chain"? > > PPS. What's an IDE and how many of them support VMS? Yeah DECset! What > happened to EDS again? Gee, Richard, you really must not want to install WASD... ------------------------------ Date: 12 Feb 2007 19:51:10 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Migrating C application from VMS to LINUX Message-ID: <53bupeF1oqpt0U1@mid.individual.net> In article , Dave Froble writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >> I would guess he's porting because he (or his management) has seen the >> writting on the wall and is not going to wait till disaster strikes >> before looking at solutions. > > It's never been explained to me. Perhaps you could again try to help me > understand. What exactly is going to be harder to port in the future, > thus making it necessary to port now? Lack of availability of replacement equipment. Bugs that get discovered that are not going to be fixed because your a little fish and there is no incentive to spend the money. And just plain not waiting til the last minute. I have been out of the applications level of computing for quite some time, but the last major conversion I worked on (Honeywell to Univac 1100) took more than 2 years. Now, if your whole VMS library consists of one or two programs of ~100 lines each, then maybe it's not such a big thing, but if I were a major player I would be concerned. The conversion from IBM to VMS here (which used all packaged applications as we are a Banner shop) took more than a year and had ripples for long after that. A conversion from one major system to another is not something that should be taken lightly. The old and new systems whould be run in paralel for some length of time to ensure the conversion is going to give consistant results. Once it becomes obvious that the original system is a dead end what possible reason can there be for putting off the inevitable? Start now and spend some extra time on the design phase. Maybe the right answer is a total re-write in a differnt language. Especially if the language chosen in the first place (in this case "C") might not have been the best choice even then. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 00:12:28 -0500 From: Dave Froble Subject: Re: Migrating C application from VMS to LINUX Message-ID: Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article , > Dave Froble writes: >> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> >>> I would guess he's porting because he (or his management) has seen the >>> writting on the wall and is not going to wait till disaster strikes >>> before looking at solutions. >> It's never been explained to me. Perhaps you could again try to help me >> understand. What exactly is going to be harder to port in the future, >> thus making it necessary to port now? > > Lack of availability of replacement equipment. Bugs that get discovered > that are not going to be fixed because your a little fish and there is > no incentive to spend the money. And just plain not waiting til the > last minute. > > I have been out of the applications level of computing for quite some time, > but the last major conversion I worked on (Honeywell to Univac 1100) took > more than 2 years. Now, if your whole VMS library consists of one or two > programs of ~100 lines each, then maybe it's not such a big thing, but if > I were a major player I would be concerned. The conversion from IBM to > VMS here (which used all packaged applications as we are a Banner shop) > took more than a year and had ripples for long after that. > > A conversion from one major system to another is not something that > should be taken lightly. The old and new systems whould be run in > paralel for some length of time to ensure the conversion is going to > give consistant results. Once it becomes obvious that the original > system is a dead end what possible reason can there be for putting > off the inevitable? Start now and spend some extra time on the design > phase. Maybe the right answer is a total re-write in a differnt language. > Especially if the language chosen in the first place (in this case "C") > might not have been the best choice even then. > > bill > I really don't think you've directly addressed the question. Lack of available replacement equipment. Yeah, at that time, I guess you'd have to move. But that hasn't happened, and today's equipment is not going to just stop working. I'd have to feel that something would always be available long enough to perform any conversion. Bugs? They don't just appear. If they exist, and you don't have problems now, you won't start to have problems, just because something is no longer supported. It seems your major argument is why put off until tomorrow what can be done today. My argument is why not put it off until you're sure it's necessary, and then, there will be no more effort than you'd put into it today. So let's explore these two points of view. So far, we haven't left one human alive forever. Everyone is going to die. It's only a question of when. So, from your perspective, why put off until later what you can do today? Me, I think I'll squeeze every bit I can out of what I have today, putting off the inevitable as long as possible. -- David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc. 170 Grimplin Road Vanderbilt, PA 15486 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 04:03:11 GMT From: "Jeffrey H. Coffield" Subject: Need Itanium OpenVMS 8.3 Imagemagick Message-ID: <3MaAh.43866$Gr2.19249@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net> I am about to give up trying to compile Imagemagick from the freeware CDs. Does anyone have instructions on how to build it on a new system? Or, better yet, does someone have a compiled version I can get? Jeff Coffield 0 Computer 1 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 22:06:52 -0800 From: DeanW Subject: Re: Need Itanium OpenVMS 8.3 Imagemagick Message-ID: <3f119ada0702122206l3a8d9eaatc5359f2bdb58d874@mail.gmail.com> On 2/12/07, Jeffrey H. Coffield wrote: > I am about to give up trying to compile Imagemagick from the freeware > CDs. Does anyone have instructions on how to build it on a new system? Just got done with this myself- ping me offline and we'll work something out. > Or, better yet, does someone have a compiled version I can get? Could happen... but it's not just IM, it's all the sundry graphics libs that need to be compiled first. OTOH, if anyone's had any luck with PerlMagick on IA64 8.3, that one's got me whupped. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Feb 2007 15:48:51 -0800 From: "kiwi-red" Subject: Re: OSU HTTP server on Itanium Message-ID: <1171324131.018056.308440@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> On Feb 11, 2:03 am, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > Anyone running this? What changes are necessary to the source code for > 3.10a? nope running apache/tomcat/csws and that seems ok kiwi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 18:52:36 -0000 From: none@nocompany.com (Spinlock) Subject: Re: small ISP startup Message-ID: <98D5839C3spinlock1977@216.168.3.30> What country are you in? When I lived in NYC I could put a small server on the internet using my residential connection, legally. Here in Ontario, Roger's won't let you do that. I would probably have to rent server space from some "official" ISP for a hundred bucks a month. A domain name might cost you 50 bucks or more, depending on how long you want to lock it in. Hope this helps, ws Sun@mustang.org (Maverick) wrote in : >I'm contacting this newsgroup due to the many professionals that are here. > >The question is: what are the costs to get a server and domain onto the >internet? > >What will be the biggest problem? > >A contact of mine is having his business slowly pushed off a hosting >system and is looking for cost effective alternatives. > -- Buy my rock & roll ditty on iTunes: http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId= 70044982 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 18:18:25 -0500 From: "Peter Weaver" Subject: Re: small ISP startup Message-ID: <1fb201c74efc$196da650$2802a8c0@CHARONVAX> Bell Sympatico Hi-Speed Business DSL is available in Canada too. Other than one American ISP who blocks my emails because they say they do not accept mail from end-user DSL modems I have few problems. Luckily I only know one person on that ISP. Peter Weaver www.weaverconsulting.ca CHARON-VAX CHARON-AXP DataStream Reflection PreciseMail HP Commercial Hardware ----- Original Message ----- From: "Spinlock" To: Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 1:52 PM Subject: Re: small ISP startup > What country are you in? When I lived in NYC I could put a small server > on > the internet using my residential connection, legally. Here in Ontario, > Roger's won't let you do that. I would probably have to rent server space > from some "official" ISP for a hundred bucks a month. > > A domain name might cost you 50 bucks or more, depending on how long you > want to lock it in. > > Hope this helps, > > ws > > Sun@mustang.org (Maverick) wrote in > : > >>I'm contacting this newsgroup due to the many professionals that are here. >> >>The question is: what are the costs to get a server and domain onto the >>internet? >> >>What will be the biggest problem? >> >>A contact of mine is having his business slowly pushed off a hosting >>system and is looking for cost effective alternatives. >> > > > -- > Buy my rock & roll ditty on iTunes: > http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId= > 70044982 > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 18:42:27 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: small ISP startup Message-ID: <45D10973.3A34ED41@spam.comcast.net> Maverick wrote: > > I'm contacting this newsgroup due to the many professionals that are here. > > The question is: what are the costs to get a server and domain onto the > internet? Think about: - Telecomm provisions - Power supply and conditioning (think UPS, possible generator) - Environmentals for the servers and telecomm gear - Tech support for your users > What will be the biggest problem? Users and ab-users. > A contact of mine is having his business slowly pushed off a hosting > system and is looking for cost effective alternatives. Get in touch with Mark Levy at The Internet Factory, http://www.tifnet.net/ -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 20:18:40 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: small ISP startup Message-ID: Spinlock wrote: > the internet using my residential connection, legally. Here in Ontario, > Roger's won't let you do that. I would probably have to rent server space > from some "official" ISP for a hundred bucks a month. Rogers, Bell, Videotron are similar to Digital in mentality. They are milking commmercial customers for all the money they got. They cripple their affordable residential offerings to prevent businesses from using it. This way, their high end services continue to have a reason to exist. However, some of their competitive ISPs (like the one I have, www.teksavvy.com ) have no problems offering an affordable fixed IP ($4.00) and block no ports and their terms/conditions allow servers. So you can run your small business from home. The downside is that the ADSL service in canada only offers 800kbps upstream. So your customers would be getting data from your server at about 650kbps max. (ADSL has a huge amount of overhead). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 18:19:37 -0700 From: Maverick Subject: Re: small ISP startup Message-ID: David J Dachtera wrote: > Maverick wrote: > >>I'm contacting this newsgroup due to the many professionals that are here. >> >>The question is: what are the costs to get a server and domain onto the >>internet? > > > Think about: > > - Telecomm provisions > - Power supply and conditioning (think UPS, possible generator) > - Environmentals for the servers and telecomm gear > - Tech support for your users > > >>What will be the biggest problem? > > > Users and ab-users. > > >>A contact of mine is having his business slowly pushed off a hosting >>system and is looking for cost effective alternatives. > > > Get in touch with Mark Levy at The Internet Factory, > http://www.tifnet.net/ > Thnx much, David. I'll forward this to him and let him make his own decisions about which way to go from here. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 00:26:37 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: small ISP startup Message-ID: <7b2f9$45d14c2b$cef8887a$827@TEKSAVVY.COM> Dave Froble wrote: > You should be urging that person to contact their ISP and complain, and > declare that they will take their business elsewhere if the situation is > not fixed. Large ISPs like Bell do not care about losing individual customers. Consider that it probably charges $3000 a month to a bank for an internet connection and banks use many internet connections. They'd rather lose one customer at $100 per month rather than lower their $3000 fare down to $50 to compete against smaller ISPs because then, they lose revenus from their big fat rich customers. It is only when those big far rich customers will find cheaper alternatives (such as DEC customers moving to Sun back in late 1980s) that Bell will wake up. Last yesr, they lost half a million telephone customers. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 18:54:34 GMT From: Tad Winters Subject: Re: Understanding DSL10L cabinet/hardware Message-ID: "FredK" wrote in news:cS2Ah.131$qk1.54@news.cpqcorp.net: > > "Tad Winters" wrote in message > news:Xns98D5688FC5952staffordnospamwinter@130.81.64.196... >> Michael Unger wrote in >> news:53bh9eF1s1pfiU1@mid.individual.net: >> >>> On 2007-02-12 13:15, "JF Mezei" wrote: >>> >>>> I have to conclude that it is a glorified resistance designed to >>>> generate heat. >>> >>> Or to provide the "base load" absolutely required by most of the >>> switch-mode power supplies to prevent the output voltage from going >>> above the upper limit ... >>> >> [..snip..] >> >> What a terrible idea for a system that would likely be packed into a >> rack with many other system, all generating too much heat. An extra >> fan would be a much better choice, even if it costs a little more. >> > > Unpredictable load, and subject to failure. Short of smashing it with > a hammer, I've never seen one of those big-ass resistors fail. > > So...the preference is that other components in the system overheat and fail? I've had some computers run continuously for years, and the fans spinning continuously, without any failure. How about another solution? Load the bay with a bank of LEDs that indicate nothing. They can flash or not. Maybe they should be lit in a pattern. Who votes for OpenVMS? Again, more expensive, but these are rack mount systems. They don't need to produce any extra heat. Tad ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 21:57:58 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: Understanding DSL10L cabinet/hardware Message-ID: Tad Winters writes: >So...the preference is that other components in the system overheat and >fail? I've had some computers run continuously for years, and the fans >spinning continuously, without any failure. How about another solution? >Load the bay with a bank of LEDs that indicate nothing. They can flash or >not. Maybe they should be lit in a pattern. Who votes for OpenVMS? >Again, more expensive, but these are rack mount systems. They don't need >to produce any extra heat. All those energy-using devices, whether spinning fans or LEDs will eventually wind up as heat in the computer room (except whatever light escapes out windows) and the A/C will still have to remove its heat. Some, like the fans, can move the heat away from the rack full of 40 DS10Ls, but that's it. If I were king, I'd cook up a circuit with a power transistor and a current sensor such that the circuit would only dissipate enough power to meet the minimum current draw, and would take itself out of the picture entirely in a heavily loaded system. It would cost more but save electric and cooling costs. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 22:05:45 GMT From: Tad Winters Subject: Re: Understanding DSL10L cabinet/hardware Message-ID: "John Wallace" wrote in news:45d0e2b4$0$8740$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net: > > "Tad Winters" wrote in message > news:Xns98D56EFA5B5EBstaffordnospamwinter@130.81.64.196... > >> Load the bay with a bank of LEDs that indicate nothing. They can >> flash or > not. > >> They don't need to produce any extra heat. >> > > Don't think so. The LEDs would likely have to use as much current as > the resistor, for the same reason - to keep the PSU load current in > the "safety zone" where the PSU works OK. If they use as much current > as the resistor/dummy load, and at the same voltage, then they're > going to generate pretty much the same amount of heat - being LEDs, > some of the input power will initially come out as light but it pretty > much all ends up as heat sooner or later, ye canna change the laws of > physics cap'n. > [..snip..] Yet, there's at least marketing value in LEDs that spell out OpenVMS. Perhaps the resistor should be replaced with an array of resistors that burn OpenVMS into your hand when you accidentally touch it. :-v) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 21:57:07 -0000 From: "John Wallace" Subject: Re: Understanding DSL10L cabinet/hardware Message-ID: <45d0e2b4$0$8740$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> "Tad Winters" wrote in message news:Xns98D56EFA5B5EBstaffordnospamwinter@130.81.64.196... > Load the bay with a bank of LEDs that indicate nothing. They can flash or not. > They don't need to produce any extra heat. > Don't think so. The LEDs would likely have to use as much current as the resistor, for the same reason - to keep the PSU load current in the "safety zone" where the PSU works OK. If they use as much current as the resistor/dummy load, and at the same voltage, then they're going to generate pretty much the same amount of heat - being LEDs, some of the input power will initially come out as light but it pretty much all ends up as heat sooner or later, ye canna change the laws of physics cap'n. Some way of sensing the actual genuine load current, and reducing the current through the resistor to keep the excess power to the minimum required, might be helpful. In the absence of details of the circuit, might that even be what's occuring? In a heavily loaded DS10L, the resistor isn't required, does nothing and therefore runs cool, whereas in a lightly configured DS10L, the resistor has to dump a few excess watts to keep the PSU operating happily? Who knows... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 20:05:13 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Understanding DSL10L cabinet/hardware Message-ID: <19557$45d10ee7$cef8887a$24936@TEKSAVVY.COM> re: Resistor to provide base load. Wouldn't the motherboard provide a base load ? And in the case of the DS10L, if you have 2 disk drives, do you still need that base load ? Is that base load there in case you have a diskless system? ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.087 ************************