INFO-VAX Fri, 02 Feb 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 66 Contents: Change a DECnet iV interface on the fly Re: Change a DECnet iV interface on the fly Re: Do PAKS add up? Re: DVD writer for DS10L ? Re: DVD writer for DS10L ? Re: DVD writer for DS10L ? Re: DVD writer for DS10L ? Re: DVD writer for DS10L ? Re: hsg80 INFO Re: hsg80 INFO Re: Intel prepares to kill off the Pentium 4 Re: Intel prepares to kill off the Pentium 4 Re: Intel prepares to kill off the Pentium 4 Re: Intel prepares to kill off the Pentium 4 LAN failover Re: Performance comparaison EV68/P4/Core 2 Re: Performance comparaison EV8/P4/Core 2 Re: Purveyor CGI mailbox capacity [now very long winded] Re: Purveyor CGI mailbox capacity [now very long winded] Re: Selling: Alphaserver DS25 Re: You gotta see this ! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 11:58:56 +0100 From: "Rudolf Wingert" Subject: Change a DECnet iV interface on the fly Message-ID: <000001c746b9$224faed0$994614ac@domina.fom> Hello, we do have OpenVMS 7.3-1 and a few Alphas with two Ethernet interface = (Fast Ethernet and GigabitEthernet). In case of an failure, two of them uses = the fFast Ethernet interface. Is it possible to change the used interface on = the fly, without any reboot? Best regards R. Wingert ------------------------------ Date: 2 Feb 2007 07:54:51 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Change a DECnet iV interface on the fly Message-ID: In article <000001c746b9$224faed0$994614ac@domina.fom>, "Rudolf Wingert" writes: > Hello, > we do have OpenVMS 7.3-1 and a few Alphas with two Ethernet interface = > (Fast > Ethernet and GigabitEthernet). In case of an failure, two of them uses = > the > fFast Ethernet interface. Is it possible to change the used interface on = > the > fly, without any reboot? > Best regards R. Wingert > If you're only running DECnet Phase IV, you can disable one circuit and enable the other on the fly via ncp set circuit yyy state on/off You should be OK as long as you don't try to run two circuits with the same address at the same time (I'm assuming routing is turned off). If you have other protocols running on the same NICs this might not be possible. ------------------------------ Date: 2 Feb 2007 07:24:52 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Do PAKS add up? Message-ID: In article <1170342924.150016.195220@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>, "tadamsmar" writes: > Say you have a couple of PAKs from old machines and you put them on a > new machine that requires more units than either of the PAKs, but not > more than the sum of the units. > > Will that work? Will you have the license covered for the new machine? > Transfer of PAKs from one machine to another may not be consistent with the terms of your license. Consult HP policies on whether you need to pay a transfer fee, can't do it, or can do it. It varies according to the product type. ------------------------------ Date: 2 Feb 2007 04:31:29 -0800 From: "omc6" Subject: Re: DVD writer for DS10L ? Message-ID: <1170419489.695637.322400@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> On Feb 1, 6:42 pm, "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" wrote: > JF > > We rebuild the 3X-PBXRY-AA (CDROM/Floppy combo) into a DVD/CDRW/floppy combo > > This is done with a special laptop style dvd/cdrw > > Due to the high price of the slot-in canister/circuit board and the fact we > install a new dvd/cdrw we charge $219 > > If interested we have them in stock and they work great > > David > > "JF Mezei" wrote in message > > news:e5da5$45c2206a$cef8887a$5731@TEKSAVVY.COM... > > >I have a DS10L with the right bay free. > > > I have a DSL10L with a SCSI card, but both bays full. > > > What would be the recommended solution to get some sort of DVD/CD writer > > on one of these machines ? One where I could burn CDs and DVDs preferably > > ? > > > I looked in some of the on-line catalogues and couldn't find SCSI based > > DVD writers. (since those seemed to focus on consumer market). > > > Are there any DVD writers that actually fit inside the DS10L ? Would those > > be the types designed for laptops ? > > David Turner > Island Computers > > "JF Mezei" wrote in message > > news:e5da5$45c2206a$cef8887a$5731@TEKSAVVY.COM... > > >I have a DS10L with the right bay free. > > > I have a DSL10L with a SCSI card, but both bays full. > > > What would be the recommended solution to get some sort of DVD/CD writer > > on one of these machines ? One where I could burn CDs and DVDs preferably > > ? > > > I looked in some of the on-line catalogues and couldn't find SCSI based > > DVD writers. (since those seemed to focus on consumer market). > > > Are there any DVD writers that actually fit inside the DS10L ? Would those > > be the types designed for laptops ? US Design makes a dvd-ram scsi external drive for VMS on Itanium/Alpha/ VAX...if dvd-ram is ok for you. I've used it. It works. ------------------------------ Date: 2 Feb 2007 13:42:00 +0100 From: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) Subject: Re: DVD writer for DS10L ? Message-ID: <45c33198$1@merkur.rz.uni-konstanz.de> In article <4Uuwh.15328$p%6.3132@bignews7.bellsouth.net>, "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" writes: >JF > >We rebuild the 3X-PBXRY-AA (CDROM/Floppy combo) into a DVD/CDRW/floppy >combo > >This is done with a special laptop style dvd/cdrw > >Due to the high price of the slot-in canister/circuit board and the fact >we >install a new dvd/cdrw we charge $219 > >If interested we have them in stock and they work great > >David > >"JF Mezei" wrote in message >news:e5da5$45c2206a$cef8887a$5731@TEKSAVVY.COM... >>I have a DS10L with the right bay free. >> >> I have a DSL10L with a SCSI card, but both bays full. >> >> What would be the recommended solution to get some sort of DVD/CD writer >>> on one of these machines ? One where I could burn CDs and DVDs >preferably >> ? >> >> I looked in some of the on-line catalogues and couldn't find SCSI based >>> DVD writers. (since those seemed to focus on consumer market). >> >> Are there any DVD writers that actually fit inside the DS10L ? Would >those >> be the types designed for laptops ? > >David Turner >Island Computers > > >"JF Mezei" wrote in message >news:e5da5$45c2206a$cef8887a$5731@TEKSAVVY.COM... >>I have a DS10L with the right bay free. >> >> I have a DSL10L with a SCSI card, but both bays full. >> >> What would be the recommended solution to get some sort of DVD/CD writer >>> on one of these machines ? One where I could burn CDs and DVDs >preferably >> ? >> >> I looked in some of the on-line catalogues and couldn't find SCSI based >>> DVD writers. (since those seemed to focus on consumer market). >> >> Are there any DVD writers that actually fit inside the DS10L ? Would >those >> be the types designed for laptops ? > This is not a DVD writer, isn't it? Eberhard ------------------------------ Date: 2 Feb 2007 05:23:55 -0800 From: "omc6" Subject: Re: DVD writer for DS10L ? Message-ID: <1170422635.069374.292000@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> On Feb 2, 7:42 am, vax...@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) wrote: > In article <4Uuwh.15328$p%6.3...@bignews7.bellsouth.net>, "David Turner, > Island Computers US Corp" writes: > > > > >JF > > >We rebuild the 3X-PBXRY-AA (CDROM/Floppy combo) into a DVD/CDRW/floppy > >combo > > >This is done with a special laptop style dvd/cdrw > > >Due to the high price of the slot-in canister/circuit board and the fact > >we > >install a new dvd/cdrw we charge $219 > > >If interested we have them in stock and they work great > > >David > > >"JF Mezei" wrote in message > >news:e5da5$45c2206a$cef8887a$5731@TEKSAVVY.COM... > >>I have a DS10L with the right bay free. > > >> I have a DSL10L with a SCSI card, but both bays full. > > >> What would be the recommended solution to get some sort of DVD/CD writer > >>> on one of these machines ? One where I could burn CDs and DVDs > >preferably > >> ? > > >> I looked in some of the on-line catalogues and couldn't find SCSI based > >>> DVD writers. (since those seemed to focus on consumer market). > > >> Are there any DVD writers that actually fit inside the DS10L ? Would > >those > >> be the types designed for laptops ? > > >David Turner > >Island Computers > > >"JF Mezei" wrote in message > >news:e5da5$45c2206a$cef8887a$5731@TEKSAVVY.COM... > >>I have a DS10L with the right bay free. > > >> I have a DSL10L with a SCSI card, but both bays full. > > >> What would be the recommended solution to get some sort of DVD/CD writer > >>> on one of these machines ? One where I could burn CDs and DVDs > >preferably > >> ? > > >> I looked in some of the on-line catalogues and couldn't find SCSI based > >>> DVD writers. (since those seemed to focus on consumer market). > > >> Are there any DVD writers that actually fit inside the DS10L ? Would > >those > >> be the types designed for laptops ? > > This is not a DVD writer, isn't it? > > Eberhard It is a dvd writer... it is essentially a 4gb drive that responds to standard VMS commands. You put it in...initializeit...mount it..and use it like any other drive on VMS. To VMS it looks and responds like any disk...a bit slower. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 15:17:27 +0100 From: "Eberhard Heuser" Subject: Re: DVD writer for DS10L ? Message-ID: <001a01c746d4$ddf39e10$05072286@vg2> ----- Original Message ----- From: "omc6" To: Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 2:23 PM Subject: Re: DVD writer for DS10L ? > On Feb 2, 7:42 am, vax...@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard > Heuser-Hofmann) wrote: >> In article <4Uuwh.15328$p%6.3...@bignews7.bellsouth.net>, "David Turner, >> Island Computers US Corp" writes: >> >> >> >> >JF >> >> >We rebuild the 3X-PBXRY-AA (CDROM/Floppy combo) into a DVD/CDRW/floppy >> >combo >> >> >This is done with a special laptop style dvd/cdrw >> >> >Due to the high price of the slot-in canister/circuit board and the fact >> >we >> >install a new dvd/cdrw we charge $219 >> >> >If interested we have them in stock and they work great >> >> >David >> >> >"JF Mezei" wrote in message >> >news:e5da5$45c2206a$cef8887a$5731@TEKSAVVY.COM... >> >>I have a DS10L with the right bay free. >> >> >> I have a DSL10L with a SCSI card, but both bays full. >> >> >> What would be the recommended solution to get some sort of DVD/CD >> >> writer >> >>> on one of these machines ? One where I could burn CDs and DVDs >> >preferably >> >> ? >> >> >> I looked in some of the on-line catalogues and couldn't find SCSI >> >> based >> >>> DVD writers. (since those seemed to focus on consumer market). >> >> >> Are there any DVD writers that actually fit inside the DS10L ? Would >> >those >> >> be the types designed for laptops ? >> >> >David Turner >> >Island Computers >> >> >"JF Mezei" wrote in message >> >news:e5da5$45c2206a$cef8887a$5731@TEKSAVVY.COM... >> >>I have a DS10L with the right bay free. >> >> >> I have a DSL10L with a SCSI card, but both bays full. >> >> >> What would be the recommended solution to get some sort of DVD/CD >> >> writer >> >>> on one of these machines ? One where I could burn CDs and DVDs >> >preferably >> >> ? >> >> >> I looked in some of the on-line catalogues and couldn't find SCSI >> >> based >> >>> DVD writers. (since those seemed to focus on consumer market). >> >> >> Are there any DVD writers that actually fit inside the DS10L ? Would >> >those >> >> be the types designed for laptops ? >> >> This is not a DVD writer, isn't it? >> >> Eberhard > > It is a dvd writer... it is essentially a 4gb drive that responds to > standard VMS commands. You put it in...initializeit...mount it..and > use it like any other drive on VMS. To VMS it looks and responds > like any disk...a bit slower. > I have responded to this: > >We rebuild the 3X-PBXRY-AA (CDROM/Floppy combo) into a DVD/CDRW/floppy > >combo My program DVDwrite burns DVD-RAM, too. There is no additional driver needed (the US Design needs one because a DVD-RAM is a read only device for OVMS. Eberhard ------------------------------ Date: 2 Feb 2007 06:27:02 -0800 From: "omc6" Subject: Re: DVD writer for DS10L ? Message-ID: <1170426422.178810.164840@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> On Feb 2, 9:17 am, "Eberhard Heuser" wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "omc6" > To: > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 2:23 PM > Subject: Re: DVD writer for DS10L ? > > > On Feb 2, 7:42 am, vax...@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard > > Heuser-Hofmann) wrote: > >> In article <4Uuwh.15328$p%6.3...@bignews7.bellsouth.net>, "David Turner, > >> Island Computers US Corp" writes: > > >> >JF > > >> >We rebuild the 3X-PBXRY-AA (CDROM/Floppy combo) into a DVD/CDRW/floppy > >> >combo > > >> >This is done with a special laptop style dvd/cdrw > > >> >Due to the high price of the slot-in canister/circuit board and the fact > >> >we > >> >install a new dvd/cdrw we charge $219 > > >> >If interested we have them in stock and they work great > > >> >David > > >> >"JF Mezei" wrote in message > >> >news:e5da5$45c2206a$cef8887a$5731@TEKSAVVY.COM... > >> >>I have a DS10L with the right bay free. > > >> >> I have a DSL10L with a SCSI card, but both bays full. > > >> >> What would be the recommended solution to get some sort of DVD/CD > >> >> writer > >> >>> on one of these machines ? One where I could burn CDs and DVDs > >> >preferably > >> >> ? > > >> >> I looked in some of the on-line catalogues and couldn't find SCSI > >> >> based > >> >>> DVD writers. (since those seemed to focus on consumer market). > > >> >> Are there any DVD writers that actually fit inside the DS10L ? Would > >> >those > >> >> be the types designed for laptops ? > > >> >David Turner > >> >Island Computers > > >> >"JF Mezei" wrote in message > >> >news:e5da5$45c2206a$cef8887a$5731@TEKSAVVY.COM... > >> >>I have a DS10L with the right bay free. > > >> >> I have a DSL10L with a SCSI card, but both bays full. > > >> >> What would be the recommended solution to get some sort of DVD/CD > >> >> writer > >> >>> on one of these machines ? One where I could burn CDs and DVDs > >> >preferably > >> >> ? > > >> >> I looked in some of the on-line catalogues and couldn't find SCSI > >> >> based > >> >>> DVD writers. (since those seemed to focus on consumer market). > > >> >> Are there any DVD writers that actually fit inside the DS10L ? Would > >> >those > >> >> be the types designed for laptops ? > > >> This is not a DVD writer, isn't it? > > >> Eberhard > > > It is a dvd writer... it is essentially a 4gb drive that responds to > > standard VMS commands. You put it in...initializeit...mount it..and > > use it like any other drive on VMS. To VMS it looks and responds > > like any disk...a bit slower. > > I have responded to this: > > > >We rebuild the 3X-PBXRY-AA (CDROM/Floppy combo) into a DVD/CDRW/floppy > > >combo > > My program DVDwrite burns DVD-RAM, too. There is no additional driver needed > (the > US Design needs one because a DVD-RAM is a read only device for OVMS. > > Eberhard I must disagree...here is my dvd-ram drive... $ create/dir omf0:[temp] $ copy login.com omf0:[temp]*/log %COPY-S-COPIED, USER1:[NELSONR]LOGIN.COM;13 copied to OMF0: [TEMP]LOGIN.COM;13 (14 blocks) $ dir omf0:[temp] Directory OMF0:[TEMP] LOGIN.COM;13 Total of 1 file. $ delete omf0:[temp]login.com;13 $ dir omf0:[temp] %DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found $ I can write whatever I want to the drive...delete it...re-initialize the drive if needed. Read and write just like any other drive. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 07:43:02 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: hsg80 INFO Message-ID: On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 05:41:50 -0800, Pete wrote: > The fault you speak of for 5,0 may be caused by a previously defined > drive in that slot. Might try deleting it first if it exists. That is a possibility, but with the old drives I had 5 ambers with the new drives 1. Swapping that drive with another from same enclosure, light turns amber in that same slot, so it is the slot not the drive. Not sure if this is fixable, or if the entire 370 enclosure needs to be replaced. Of course, I really could live with 23 drives, just means one more spare:-) -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: 2 Feb 2007 08:42:35 -0800 From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: hsg80 INFO Message-ID: <1170434555.840457.69170@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> On Feb 2, 10:43 am, "Tom Linden" wrote: > On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 05:41:50 -0800, Pete wrote: > > The fault you speak of for 5,0 may be caused by a previously defined > > drive in that slot. Might try deleting it first if it exists. > > That is a possibility, but with the old drives I had 5 ambers with the > new drives 1. Swapping that drive with another from same enclosure, > light turns amber in that same slot, so it is the slot not the drive. > > Not sure if this is fixable, or if the entire 370 enclosure needs to > be replaced. Of course, I really could live with 23 drives, just means > one more spare:-) > > -- > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client:http://www.opera.com/mail/ Tom, What Pete is saying is that sometimes the HSG80 thinks the drive is still bad, even if you have replaced it. I've had to delete the DISKxxxxx device (and any associated containers) and then re-add it to clear the amber light error before. It's certainly worth a try. John H. Reinhardt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 03:15:02 -0500 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: Intel prepares to kill off the Pentium 4 Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > Stephen Hoffman wrote: >> I do not work for HP, and no one has yet engaged HoffmanLabs to >> provide a DIRECTORY command or a DCL shell. > > Yeah but... HoffmanLabs' R&D division might have a self funded project > to port VMS to industry standard platform. This would not contradict > your above statement :-) And once HoffmanLabs announces the existance > of this project, your sale of VMS licences would instantly exceed those > of HP. Roughly thirty-five million lines of OpenVMS source code and various and correspondingly giant build and test procedures, multiple languages, object code generation for x86-64, memory management for x86-64, linking for x86-64, signal handling, dealing with ACPI differences, dealing with I/O devices and interfaces, multiple third-party products. Yeah. Right. Piece of cake. Be done with the port by lunchtime. The next step past this discussion: who would buy this OpenVMS x86-64 port, and why? And more importantly, how many and how much? Enough revenue to offset the engineering hours required for roughly thirty-five million lines of HP source code and correspondingly giant build and test procedures, multiple languages, object code generation for x86-64, memory management for x86-64, the private jet, linking for x86-64, the signal handling, multiple international travel boondoggles and a junket or twelve, dealing with ACPI differences, dealing with I/O devices and interfaces, multiple third-party products and the requisite partridge installed into the pear tree? Yep, that's an R&D budget that HL management could easily retire on. >> http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/firmware/efibrief.mspx > > Thank you for the link. So basically, Microsoft is not against UEFI, but > isn't going to push for it. > > In your educated opinion, will Intel/Amd at one point start to "enforce" > UEFI for the X86 platform ? Don't Intel/AMD release the motherboard and > system interface standards ? Or are the assemblers such as HP and Dell > truly in the driver's seat when it comes to decide whether to stick with > BIOS or go with UEFI ? The organization at the core of the Windows platform and of the associated hardware and platform requirements is Microsoft. There are x86-64 boards around that can support EFI, but few (no?) vendors have shipped the necessary platform enablement code if for no other reason than Microsoft isn't yet using it. Most (all?) of these boards will boot as BIOS boards. But again, EFI does not matter here. Whatever console that can manage to bootstrap Windows or Linux is almost certainly sufficient to boot OpenVMS. >> bootstrap. It would be easier to port to a box with EFI than with >> BIOS, but the work involved in this particular area of an operating >> system port is a rounding error in the context of the effort involved >> in a porting project for something of the scale of OpenVMS. > > Thank you for the reality check. > > So, in a THEORETICAL scenario where HP would announce this morning that > VMS is to be ported to X86, is is fair to state that such a port could > go either way with regards to BIOS or EFI ? You're fixated on something that isn't difficult to deal with, and really isn't a factor -- either way. qv: LILO and GRUB. There are monstrously larger parts of the porting effort lurking. Technically, this port appears feasible. Financially? HL certainly wouldn't fund this without a strong financial case, and I would most expect HP to apply similar caution. This is a very large and likely multi-year investment. And then there's the whole second-level discussion around fixing and upgrading and correcting existing limitations during any port... If HL had enough to cash on-hand to completely fund the hypothetical port of OpenVMS to x86-64 (and had the requisite permission for same from the copyright holder), HL would likely not fund the port. Far more likely, HL would be funding an executive retreat somewhere comfortably warm, with umbrella drinks and Bass on tap, palm trees swaying in the gentle ocean breezes, WiFi, and long clear sandy beaches. -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 08:56:10 -0500 From: "Neil Rieck" Subject: Re: Intel prepares to kill off the Pentium 4 Message-ID: <45c3411e$0$7431$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com> "JF Mezei" wrote in message news:e6f92$45c2ae58$cef8887a$30846@TEKSAVVY.COM... > [...snip...] > > Actually, I really wouldn't be surprised at this point in time to see > Bruden get the rights to VMS once HP retires it (like Mentec got the PDP > stuff). At which point, Bruden has the right people to continue to develop > VMS and can hire the independant folks like HofflamLabs to help with big > projects like the port. Bruden seems to have grown significantly in recent > months. > A company with deep pockets (Oracle) ended up being a good home for RDB. If the Greek gods are still directing the actions of humans as if we are all chess pieces, they should make sure Intel is the final home for OpenVMS. Currently, only the Itanium folks at Intel care about OpenVMS and are able to leverage it in their product line. But if OpenVMS was owned by Intel, some bean counter there would see benefits in getting our OS to run across their whole product line, including Pentium-E. Let's be realistic, Microsoft enjoyed a huge savings by merging their consumer OS (Windows-9x) and business OS (Windows-NT) into one product called Windows-XP. Other s/w convergences from MS are still coming. Likewise, silicon manufacturers will soon realize that it makes sense to merge their consumer and business product lines. Will Intel force the market to morph from Pentium-E to Itanium2 or is it better to do the reverse? Itanium kind of made sense in 1995 but now makes almost no sense. ### To answer Hoff's question in a previous note about who will buy "OpenVMS on x86-64" let me tell you about political changes in large corporations consuming computer products: Ten years ago IS/IT purchases were authorized by someone in IT (above middle management but below the CTO) who was familiar with the technology. Today, all purchases greater than $5M need to go to the board of directors for approval and this means that the hardware being recommended for purchase had better be capable of running many kinds of software so that if your system was suddenly no longer need in the next few years, that the hardware could be used elsewhere. (BTW, now middle level IS/IT people don't want to send something to the board that will be questioned by the board so they tend to push stuff they are familiar with). So it is easier for me to take my existing OpenVMS software and move it to new industry-standard hardware than it would be for me to buy "what the board may see as special-purpose hardware. (I suspect that is one reason why my computer room is full of Compaq Proliant servers; the board assumed they were buying very expensive Pentium-based PCs and this is a term those people had at least heard of). Getting back to the folks in IS/IT, while it is true that people who hang out in newsgroups like this have heard about Itanium, you would be surprised about how many corporate IS/IT people know about the Alphacide but have never heard the phrase "Itanium". Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 14:02:12 -0000 From: "Richard Brodie" Subject: Re: Intel prepares to kill off the Pentium 4 Message-ID: "Stephen Hoffman" wrote in message news:epuruf$p8a$1@pyrite.mv.net... > Right. Piece of cake. Be done with the port by lunchtime. That'll leave the afternoon free for the Power port then, just in case. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 12:00:41 -0500 From: "Neil Rieck" Subject: Re: Intel prepares to kill off the Pentium 4 Message-ID: <45c36c5c$0$7444$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com> "Tom Linden" wrote in message news:op.tm4o4qmftte90l@hyrrokkin... > On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 00:15:02 -0800, Stephen Hoffman [...snip...] > Like Alpha, Itanium will never receive the economy of scale to justify the > cost of ongoing R&D to keep it competitive, although I suppose you could > argue that it will benefit from the technical advances applied to the x86 > architecture. I receive Intel's newsletters and I have yet to see mention > of Itanium, so I have to conclude that it is not a compelling product for > Intel. HP needs to get Intel's full attention, and how many $ will that > take? > You are correct. Transitioning from VAX to Alpha was the correct thing to do at the time. VAX started when memory was expensive and Alpha was ready once memory started to get much cheaper (which enabled the whole RISC concept). Also, DEC waited until a large percentage of the OpenVMS customer base was on Alpha before announcing the end of VAX. But announcing the end of Alpha (and killing off any new development of that product) before OpenVMS was ported to Itanium was a big mistake. The history books are full of examples where the underdog just needs to bide his time waiting for the top dog to sub his toe. Intel and IBM (no underdogs mind you) were waiting while HPQ and SUN stubbed big-time. Like I said earlier today, Itanium was probably a good idea in 1995 but it just took too long to come to market. Today multi-core technology makes Itanium irrelevant. Some day soon Intel will be having a bad year and someone there will decide to kill off Itanium in order to save Intel (and possibly get a bonus). I just hope that when this happened, the back room boys in OpenVMS engineering will announce to the world that they have been doing stealth ports of OpenVMS to x86-64 for the past few years just in case. Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 12:04:00 +0100 From: "Rudolf Wingert" Subject: LAN failover Message-ID: <000301c746b9$d7da98f0$994614ac@domina.fom> Hello, we would like to upgrade our OpenVMS cluster to version 8.3 AXP. This version supports a LAN failover. In a course, I did learn to configure a standalone system. But how can I do this an to sarellites of a cluster, without access to the local console? Also I must stop the whole network to install this feature, what's happen with SCA, aso. Best regards R. Wingert ------------------------------ Date: 2 Feb 2007 14:11:32 +0100 From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, DTI Athis ex CENA, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40) Subject: Re: Performance comparaison EV68/P4/Core 2 Message-ID: When I wrote EV8, you need to read EV68 (ah, an EV8 workstation will be a dream, but only a dream ....). But EV68 is quite good ... Patrick -- =============================================================================== pmoreau@ath.cena.fr ______ ___ _ (Patrick MOREAU) DSNA/DTI/SDER (ex CENA) / / / / /| /| Athis-Mons France / /___/ / / | / | __ __ __ __ BP 205 / / / / |/ | | | |__| |__ |__| | | 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX / / :: / / | |__| | \ |__ | | |__| http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/ http://membres.lycos.fr/pmoreau/ =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 09:11:07 -0500 From: "Neil Rieck" Subject: Re: Performance comparaison EV8/P4/Core 2 Message-ID: <45c3449f$0$7433$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com> "Patrick MOREAU, DTI Athis ex CENA, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40" wrote in message news:NvWr+cP8GDoT@sinead... > Hi, > > I've made some quick performance comparaisons (using mpeg audio encoding > with > lame 3.96-1 on VMS and a Windows lame 3.96.1 dll on WIN XP SP2) on my > various hobby systems. Compressing 44.1 Khz stereo WAVs at 128 kbs. > > - On DS15A (EV68) 1 Ghz, you can compress at about 7 times the real-time > using > a U160 SCSI Seagate 36 Gb disk (I need to test with the 72 Gb internal > disks of > the system which seems faster than the 36 Gb). > > - On a Pavillion HP PC with P4 3 Ghz, you can compress at about 8 times > the > real time (disk is a SATA1 Seagate 200 Go). > > - On a Pavillion HP PC with a Core 2 Duo E6300 (dual core 1,86 Ghz, but > only > one core probably used, disk is a Samsung SATA2 250 Gb) you can compress > at > more than 11 times the real time. > > The EV8 is much more faster than a P4 at the same clock speed, about 2.6 > times faster, which is not a surprise. > > The Core 2 duo is rather impressive, more than 2 times the performance of > the > P4 at same clock speed. > > Patrick > -- IIRC, when P4 was first released we were told that P4 was clocked a little differently so that a P3 running 750 MHz had approximately the same performance stats as a P4 running 1.5 GHz. We also saw this when looking at informal benchmark stats from SETI-at-home. The neat thing about Intel Core products is the ability to power down unnecessary sections on-the-fly in order to save energy (extends battery life of lap tops; reduces air-conditioning requirements in computer rooms). With quad-cores just coming out I can only assume that your comparison will seem even more lopsided next year. Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 23:17:20 +1030 From: Mark Daniel Subject: Re: Purveyor CGI mailbox capacity [now very long winded] Message-ID: <12s6cr8bb93sf83@corp.supernews.com> bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > Mark, I just found a problem message that displayed a "/HTML" on the > end of the message, but when I redisplayed the message under yahmail > with the mime button on the bottom, it displayed fine, so something > changed with soymail as to break it as yahmail works fine ... OK. I'll have one last attempt at explaining what's happening here. After that, unless someone in the Purveyor community comes up with a work-around or can demonstrate I've got it wrong, I'm going to consider the issue unresolved/able and any further correspondence on the topic will not be entered into. > just go back and put in the old yahmail logic for redisplayed the html > page ... Here is the logic for yahMAIL output: fprintf(); fwrite(); And here is the logic for soyMAIL output: fprintf(); fwrite(); There is no difference in the 'logic'. There is a great difference in what is being output of course, as any casual glance at the two applications makes obvious. But that's just because it's what makes the difference in appearance (to labour what should be obvious). That's why the two applications will induce the Purveyor corruption in different circumstances. Now, the Web is basically stream oriented. For text, a new line on the page is indicated by the presence of a newline character (0x0a) in the stream of characters. HTML masks this slightly but it's basically the case. It's derived from the U*x paradigm of stream-oriented data with embedded sentinal characters (such as the newline and null characters). Any continuous sequence of characters not punctuated by a newline character (0x0a) can be considered a single line of text. VMS' record-oriented output (particularly text) does not indicate line limits with embedded newline characters. End of (text) record is end-of-line (not going to consider 'pasthru' or any of that stuff here). Do a $DIRECTORY/OUTPUT=FILE.LIS and DUMP the contents; there won't be a single newline character in sight. However browsers are stream oriented and expect a new line to be indicated with a newline character. Without embedded newline characters in the above $DIRECTORY/OUTPUT=FILE.LIS output how do we get a browser to display each line of listing output on a new line in the browser display, rather than as one continuous sequence of characters? The solution is to *insert* (add) a newline character after each line (record) of output in the directory listing. This is what all VMS servers must do when receiving record-oriented data from VAR RMS, utility output, etc. Apache does it (in the TCP/IP device driver), OSU (optionally) does is in it's script output processing, Purveyor does it for "text/.." responses, WASD does it by default for "text/.." responses. In this way a simple script can do a $SHOW SYSTEM and the records output all become newline-terminated by the time they arrive at the browser, allowing them to be displayed as the familiar multiple line report we are familiar with rather than a single, long row of uninterpretable characters. How is this performed? Well a 'smart' VMS server (you are welcome to read 'WASD' here :-) against script output examines the last character in each record it receives. If it's a newline (0x0a) it assumes that the script is terminating the output correctly for Web text purposes. If the last character in the record is not a newline than it appends a newline character to that record and sends it on through to the browser. It would not be optimal to *always* add a newline to each record because some script environments may already do this (e.g. Perl, PHP).. This approach would frequently cause double spacing. Check and add if necessary. OK, too easy! Now for the C language buffered output functionality under VMS. Buffered output does exactly that. Buffers output until the buffer needs flushing. For efficiency. For output to a mailbox the C-RTL sets it's internal buffer size to the mailbox capacity. Fine so far. Write a record (newline terminated - remember C is stream-orientned), write a record, write a record, and so forth. The C-RTL is smart enough to know that the (vanilla) VMS mailbox is record-oriented (can be created differently in later VMS versions) and so strips the newline character before sending the corresponding record to the mailbox. The server reads the mailbox, checks the record, no newline character, append one - everyone (particularly the browser) is happy. Now what if enough data is written into the C-RTL buffer so as to fill it? No newline character has appeared in the stream indicating a complete line (record) and the buffer is full. Well it has to be flushed of course, to make room for more output from the application. Fine. Write the contents to the mailbox. No sweat. Empty C-RTL buffer, full mailbox buffer. Server reads the mailbox content, checks the last character, not a newline, appends one and sends the data to the browser. OK, now there's a newline at browser that wasn't in the output from the script. Data corruption! What can the server do in this situation? Well not much as it turns out. There is nothing it can do to determine whether a received record was due to a newline in the script output or a filled buffer (remembering that it's possible to receive a newline just as the buffer fills, the mailbox is record-oriented). There has to be some mechanism outside of the data stream coming from the script to tell the VMS server it's not record-oriented output. Solutions ... Apache: allows the script to enable/disable carriage control insertion by the BG: device driver. OSU: and (and other 'modes') that distinguish between stream and record data. WASD: "Script-control: X-record-mode" and "Script-control: X-stream-mode" available to the script CGI response header. Purveyor: Purveyor: Hmmm, Purveyor: Well that's the issue. It seems determined to massage "text/.." carriage-control come-what-may (as far as I can tell). Why not just limit buffer-fulls to less than the (apparent) 1024 byte magic number? This is perhaps possible if you control all aspects of your application but if you are receiving and needing to display data supplied from outside your domain then there is always the possibility that you will be provided with something unacceptable. For example; a two thousand character HTML message without any newlines at all (transfer encoded as quoted-printable or even base64). HTML (basically) doesn't care about white-space and so it may be perfectly legitimate HTML markup but if a link straddles the 1024 byte boundary and the server inserts a newline where it shouldn't your isn't going to work any longer. It's been corrupted. There are a swag of other reasons why an application developer should not have to count every character they generate so as to fit within an arbitrary limit. That one of the purposes of the C-RTL's stream buffering mechanisms. Now of course with software there are always at least a dozen ways to accomplish your objective and it may be possible to work around all of these issues but the bottom line is, why would anyone invest a working week or two (or more) of their own time in catering to a ten-year-old-dead environment when everybody else is coping quite well? I'm not a businessman's bootlace and it doesn't even need to be explained to me. Thus endeth the lesson for today. ------------------------------ Date: 2 Feb 2007 07:25:14 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com Subject: Re: Purveyor CGI mailbox capacity [now very long winded] Message-ID: <1170429911.556208.122330@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> On Feb 2, 7:47 am, Mark Daniel wrote: > > why would anyone invest a working > week or two (or more) of their own time in catering to a > ten-year-old-dead environment when everybody else is coping quite well? because they are a nice guy? :) because they need a challenge in their life? :) If this is a business decision, why are you providing soymail to the vms community for free? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 11:49:32 -0500 From: "Island Computers, D B Turner" Subject: Re: Selling: Alphaserver DS25 Message-ID: <12s6qsb53j1ts6f@news.supernews.com> Judging by the number of Alpha "brokers" changing direction or just going under it seems we will be "THE MARKET" I have noticed many many of the dealers I dealt with 5 years ago are now gone... And one of the biggest dealers boasts a load of CISCO gear! Nothing Alpha at all ! DT -- Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St Savannah GA 31404 Tel: 912 447 6622 x201 Mail: dturner-atnospam-islandco-com (You know what to do with the dashes) "Jan-Erik Söderholm" wrote in message news:hZhwh.30882$E02.12640@newsb.telia.net... > Island Computers, D B Turner wrote : > > > We have a new condition (refurbished) Alphaserver DS25 that > > we are selling below market > > "selling below market" ? > > But you *are* (part of) the market, right ? :-) :-) > > Best Regards, > Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 11:50:14 -0500 From: "Island Computers, D B Turner" Subject: Re: You gotta see this ! Message-ID: <12s6qtn5cmquk93@news.supernews.com> Was there ever a marketed ALpha EV1 Chip? -- Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St Savannah GA 31404 Tel: 912 447 6622 x201 Mail: dturner-atnospam-islandco-com (You know what to do with the dashes) "PL" wrote in message news:o4iwh.30884$E02.12459@newsb.telia.net... > > Yes, nice, but does anyone got the DIGITAL ad that's were on TV (CNN) around > 93-94 when 4th generation of Alpha chip were out? > > I remember hearing someting like: "digital has it's 4th generation of > 64-bits processor while the others has none yet, the difference hasn't been > this big since the 60's" and then showing moving pictures of hippies like > from the Monterey Pop Festival or similar and the digital-logo twisted. > > ^P > > "Island Computers, D B Turner" skrev i meddelandet > news:12s232ttf1gil39@news.supernews.com... > > > http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=4915875929930836239&q=windows+386& > b3ta > > > > > > It's about a 12 minute Windows Promo video from the 80's !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > > A must see ! > > > > -- > > Island Computers US Corp > > 2700 Gregory St > > Savannah GA 31404 > > Tel: 912 447 6622 x201 > > Mail: dturner-atnospam-islandco-com > > (You know what to do with the dashes) > > > > > > ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.066 ************************