INFO-VAX Mon, 01 Dec 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 642 Contents: %ANALDISK-I-BADHIGHWATER device types Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: HBVS on system-disk shadow set, VAXcluster, reboot, ANA/DISK/REPAIR Re: HBVS on system-disk shadow set, VAXcluster, reboot, ANA/DISK/REPAIR Re: How to make an FTP through a .com file Re: How to make an FTP through a .com file Re: MUTEX Re: MUTEX Re: MUTEX Re: Open Source Message Oriented Middleware on OpenVMS? Re: Open Source Message Oriented Middleware on OpenVMS? Re: Torrent Client for VMS Re: VMS SIG Tape released (last from me) Re: VMS SIG Tape released (last from me) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 18:42:39 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: %ANALDISK-I-BADHIGHWATER Message-ID: Should I be concerned about %ANALDISK-I-BADHIGHWATER? Why does ANA/DISK/REPAIR not repair it? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 18:47:13 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: device types Message-ID: What are these devices? SHAC AMD79C30A ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 00:46:49 -0700 From: Glen Herrmannsfeldt Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: Arne Vajhøj wrote: > Richard B. Gilbert wrote: (snip) > > It's not clear to me that there is any point in packing six characters > > into a "REAL*4". > There are not room for 6 codes of 6 bit in 4 byte either. > That only gives 5.33 bit per character. REAL*4 on the PDP-10 (FORTRAN-10) is 36 bits, and will hold six SIXBIT characters, or five ASCII characters. -- glen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 11:24:08 +0100 From: Johnny Billquist Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: Bob Eager skrev: > On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:16:04 UTC, moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com > (Michael Moroney) wrote: > >> =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes: >> >>> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >>>> A six bit >>>> code is sufficient to give you the alphabet, the decimal digits, and >>>> common punctuation with a few characters left over. >>>> It's not clear to me that there is any point in packing six characters >>>> into a "REAL*4". >>> There are not room for 6 codes of 6 bit in 4 byte either. >>> That only gives 5.33 bit per character. >> RAD50 gives a character set of 40 characters (50 octal). That's the >> letters A-Z uppercase, digits 0-9, space, two other punctuation characters >> and one code which I think was never defined. I believe this is how PDP-11 >> operating systems stored file names (a 6.3 name with an implicit period >> could be stored as 3 words/6 bytes). > > I said there'd be a pedant along in a minute! Arne is being the pedant - > saying that it's not ASCII without a full character set... Actually, it's not even being a pedant. It's just plain silly to say that RADIX50 is ASCII, or anywhere close to it. Compare with EBCDIC. That's not ASCII either. But it contains the same letters. As does R50. So, what defines ASCII? Actually, it's the interpretation of 7-bit values in a specific way that defines it as ASCII. Clearly, R50 have a different interpretation if you present the same seven bits, so it is in no way related to ASCII. The fact that you have functions that can convert between ASCII and R50 should tell you all you need. Just as you can have functions that convert between ASCII and EBCDIC (as an example). (Now, the pedant would point out that you can't view a 7-bit value from a R50 point of view, since R50 deals with 16-bit values.) Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol ------------------------------ Date: 1 Dec 2008 08:27:43 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: In article , "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > > My knowledge of ADA is almost non-existent! The people I've talked with > who do use ADA say that you CAN do almost anything; but you may have > to provide the compiler with an extensive explanation of what you are > trying to do. This is as it should be. A program that uses the same > address to store a float and a long int is a disaster waiting to happen. > The original may work just fine but when it's modified. . . . I'm not familiar with the current Ada standard. But if I have two 32 bit signed integers I think the language should recognise that, no matter how many layers of user-defined typing I pile on top of it. Ada 86 did not. And I found that as soon as I needed to pass an array as an argument, I had to define a type. Which meant I coudn't just stick to the predefined types where they were suitable, and ended up having to tell the compiler all too often that yes, I really was just dealling with 32 bit signed integers. Mind you, my own ideas of what should be allowed are a lot closer to Ada 86 than they are to any version of C. But I couldn't see the advantage to not being able pass an array of a predefined type. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Dec 2008 08:42:47 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <6b12cbDET9iL@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <6pdhvdF7g80lU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > Rhetorical question, right? Running VMS means working with a whole > different animal. A more reasonable question would be, "Why would > anyone want to run Linux on a VAX when it's just a poor stepchild > to Unix and there are several excelent versions of Unix availble?" :-) Back when VAXen were cost competitive with other CPUs, it made sense to buy a VAX to run UNIX. I knew a guy who learned to program on an 11/750 running ULTRIX. Lots of folks bought VAXen and put BSD UNIX on them. BSD was arguably the most advanced UNIX for quite some time. Back when VAX was the only platform that would run VMS, it made a lot of sense to buy a VAX to run VMS. But when UNIX on RISC came out it no longer made a lot of sense to buy a VAX to run UNIX. Long since Alpha first shipped it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy a VAX to run VMS. Except for folks having significant hardware dependencies (I know several), it doens't make a lot of sense to buy a VAX for anything. But I'll keep on in my hobbyist cluster, just because I like using Macro-32 as a native language for some things. Like teaching my kids assembler and having the full-screen mode for the debugger. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Dec 2008 08:48:39 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <8lqnDTaJMYrA@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <6pdujdF7jt18U1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > Not possible? I really expected someone to recognize RAD50 (aka RADIX-50) > when I posted this. :-) But you said ASCII. The RAD50 character set is a subset of the ASCII character set, which is why it works. Of course, all PDP-10 programmers know how to put 5 (7-bit) ASCII characters in a (36 bit) word, and the last release of the Fortran compilers would allocate a full word if they saw REAL*4. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:43:23 +0100 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <49341430$0$8605$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl> Tim E. Sneddon vaguely mentioned on 30-11-2008 16:51: [snip] > So does the internal jacketing done by TIE when going from the > VAX or Alpha to Itanium environments and back the other way. And another one from personal experience: I used to code against the Message Router DDS (Distributed Directory Services) interface way back when I was employed by Digital. It turned out that the published interface only worked with stack-oriented parameter passing languages, and for my own favourite programming language, Fortran, with its static parameter lists, we had to write a "DDS_CALL" jacket routine in Macro. /Wilm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 17:34:16 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: HBVS on system-disk shadow set, VAXcluster, reboot, ANA/DISK/REPAIR Message-ID: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: >My standard procedure for installing patches: > o Download the patches. > o Unpack the patches onto the system disk. > o Set VAXcluster to 0. (This is because, early in the startup > sequence, I check for cluster membership and if the node is not > in a cluster, I don't mount any disks except the system disk (most > of which are on other nodes anyway), don't start TCPIP etc. Is there a reason for simply not booting min (SYSBOOT> SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN")? > o Shutdown. > o Physically remove one member of the system-disk shadow set, so > that I have a clean backup which I can boot from. (This is the > important stuff---see below.) Is there a reason for not simply dismounting the "backup" shadowset member, rather than having the OS look for it and not find it? This of course would have prevented the hang when rebooting back into the cluster. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 18:21:23 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: HBVS on system-disk shadow set, VAXcluster, reboot, ANA/DISK/REPAIR Message-ID: In article , moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes: > > o Set VAXcluster to 0. (This is because, early in the startup > > sequence, I check for cluster membership and if the node is not > > in a cluster, I don't mount any disks except the system disk (most > > of which are on other nodes anyway), don't start TCPIP etc. > > Is there a reason for simply not booting min (SYSBOOT> SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN")? Actually, the check is $ IF .NOT. F$GETSYI("CLUSTER_MEMBER") .OR. - F$GETSYI("STARTUP_P1") .NES. " " THEN EXIT I do SOME stuff when not in a cluster, and it is clearer in the procedure what is done and what not rather than having to think about what happens and what doesn't with a minimum boot. > > o Shutdown. > > > o Physically remove one member of the system-disk shadow set, so > > that I have a clean backup which I can boot from. (This is the > > important stuff---see below.) > > Is there a reason for not simply dismounting the "backup" shadowset > member, rather than having the OS look for it and not find it? If I dismount a member, it is not a clean copy, since there could be files open for write etc. Most folks say this is not a big deal, but if I really need a backup copy I want it to be clean. However, even if I dismount it, at boot it will be mounted back in if it is available. > This > of course would have prevented the hang when rebooting back into the > cluster. As I noted in another post, the reason for the hang was that I forgot to dismount the shadow set on other nodes. However, the whole idea of the backup is to NOT have it in the shadow set when the node comes back into the cluster, in case something went really wrong. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Dec 2008 08:59:49 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: How to make an FTP through a .com file Message-ID: <1jczdYbflvw4@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <08112900102006_2020048A@antinode.info>, sms@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda) writes: > > "[...] with that file as [it is] input stream"? I guess that English > is not _your_ first language, either, unless you have some other excuse. Well, English was my first language. But everyone on c.o.v knows I can't spell and type at the same time. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 10:03:18 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: How to make an FTP through a .com file Message-ID: <08120110031880_2020048A@antinode.info> From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) > > "[...] with that file as [it is] input stream"? I guess that English > > is not _your_ first language, either, unless you have some other excuse. > > Well, English was my first language. But everyone on c.o.v knows I > can't spell and type at the same time. In which case, one might suggest avoiding embarrassment by keeping one's fingers quiet about the language difficulties of others (others who have much better reasons for making minor usage/spelling errors than ourselves). SMS. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 23:38:20 -0800 (PST) From: Volker Halle Subject: Re: MUTEX Message-ID: <212c43b6-c0f3-48df-9266-23e6d65278fc@f13g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> Jan-Erik, did you get a useable dump written ? Is there still the process in MUTEX wait, if you do ANAL/CRASH and SDA> SHOW SUMM ? If so and you're interested in further analysis, I could provide some SDA commands for you to look at that problem. Volker. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 08:36:03 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: MUTEX Message-ID: Volker Halle wrote: > Jan-Erik, > > did you get a useable dump written ? Is there still the process in > MUTEX wait, if you do ANAL/CRASH and SDA> SHOW SUMM ? > > If so and you're interested in further analysis, I could provide some > SDA commands for you to look at that problem. > > Volker. Hi. Hm, well, the dump process said something about not beeing able to dump on a shadowed disk and that it dumped to some "HBVA" (or something) device. Then other problems got higher priority (like trying to understand how some inter-process communication software written by DEC/Stockholm in the 80's works) so I've not cared about the dump any more. I *think* that the MUTEX was due to multiple processes trying to delete/create the same TNA device. That was what they hang on anyway... Thanks for asking ! Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Dec 2008 08:57:39 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: MUTEX Message-ID: In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: > > They are FREE_RSN and MWAIT from the latest freeware kit (8) > and they are both in MACRO. Anyone can try to build them. IIRC both of those tools depend on undocumented VMS internals that vary between releases. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 08:40:14 -0800 (PST) From: steel_and_alum_engr Subject: Re: Open Source Message Oriented Middleware on OpenVMS? Message-ID: <1a9edfb0-5255-4d4a-be38-6321b37a4414@x14g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> On Nov 30, 6:28=A0pm, ja wrote: > The main reason for doing the port is the belief that software of this > nature is missing on OpenVMS and that it provides an ideal solution to > those looking for a standards-based, Open Source, solution to their > messaging needs. John -- For quite a few years now, my company has been using BEA MessageQ, formerly known as DEC MessageQ, originally known as PAMS. The product works quite well in our application, and we have used it on VAX, Alpha, and PC platforms since the early 1990's. I'm not sure about the current level of support and/or development, especially since BEA is now a part of Oracle. We've been running BEA-MQ version 5.0 for a number of years now (on Alpha), and that may be the most recent (and last) version available for OpenVMS. Here is a link to some info on the BEA software: http://www.bea.com/framework.jsp?CNT=3Doverview.htm&FP=3D/content/product= s/more/messageq Your standards-based, open source solution sounds very interesting though. Good luck with the project. Regards, Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:06:34 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Open Source Message Oriented Middleware on OpenVMS? Message-ID: steel_and_alum_engr wrote: > On Nov 30, 6:28 pm, ja wrote: > >> The main reason for doing the port is the belief that software of this >> nature is missing on OpenVMS and that it provides an ideal solution to >> those looking for a standards-based, Open Source, solution to their >> messaging needs. > > John -- > > For quite a few years now, my company has been using BEA MessageQ, > formerly known as DEC MessageQ, originally known as PAMS. > The product works quite well in our application, and we have used it > on VAX, Alpha, and PC platforms since the early 1990's. > I'm not sure about the current level of support and/or development, > especially since BEA is now a part of Oracle. > We've been running BEA-MQ version 5.0 for a number of years now (on > Alpha), and that may be the most recent (and last) version available > for OpenVMS. > > Here is a link to some info on the BEA software: > http://www.bea.com/framework.jsp?CNT=overview.htm&FP=/content/products/more/messageq > > Your standards-based, open source solution sounds very interesting > though. Good luck with the project. > > Regards, > Steve > I've also managed systems where DMQ/BMQ was used. Realy nice software. Also note that IBM MQ is available for VMS and still a "living" software. I have very hard to belive that (ported) open source offer done of "free time" can come close to the stability of these two... Another option ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 06:44:20 -0800 (PST) From: johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: Torrent Client for VMS Message-ID: On Nov 29, 9:02=A0pm, davidpryce...@yahoo.com.au wrote: > Hi Group, > > I am interested in downloading software from a VMS to multiple windows > clients using a peer-to-peer protocol, instead of FTP or HTTP. > > Does anyone know of any torrent clients for VMS around? > > Are they open source? =A0Would prefer not Java clients if possible. > > Thanks > > David I can't help wondering if I've understood the question right. Areas where VMS is used are usually quite concerned about things like security, authentication, and what not. Connectivity (and cost thereof) typically aren't so much of an issue. Areas where non- proprietary P2P [1] is often used seem typically to have diametrically opposite concerns - want to save server bandwidth/CPU, don't care about authentication, don't care if end users get a file that really isn't what it claims to be ????? [1] Proprietary P2P means stuff like the UK broadcasters use for downloading programmes, some of which rely on DRM-type stuff for "revenue protection". ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 11:42:47 +0100 From: Johnny Billquist Subject: Re: VMS SIG Tape released (last from me) Message-ID: glenn everhart skrev: > Many thanks to those who have contributed in many ways over the years. > Between the RSX tapes and the VMS tapes, SIGtapes have been issued since > the fall of 1977. 30 years is a long time for a computing project to go > on, but perhaps we may be remembered as having contributed to the growth > of free open source software. I still find the VMS tapes and RSX tapes > useful for dealing with some software patents by Johhny-come-latelies, > even where the code itself is no longer needed. > > Best wishes to you all. > > Glenn C. Everhart > Everhart@gce.com > 302 659 0460 > > 156 Clark Farm Rd. > Smyrna, Delaware 19977 > > (website at www.gce.com which hasn't a lot new but has one or two > oddities...) Glenn - Many thanks to you for doing this all these years. As a (somewhat) late player on RSX, the old tapes have been very nice and useful to check on, and occasionally use software from. It has been one of the best resources ever found. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 11:44:50 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: VMS SIG Tape released (last from me) Message-ID: <00A83708.C5B1552D@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , glenn everhart writes: >IanMiller wrote: >> Glenn, >> thank for all your work with the tapes over the decades, >> >> Do you know if this collection will appear on mvb.saic,com ? >Likely. Mark Berryman got a blank cd I must have sent by mistake so I >sent him another, plus the material on DVD. If that does not make it I >will keep trying, but the CDs I sent were all verified after writing, >unless I also accidentally grabbed a blank somewhere... First, Glenn, thanks for all your effort over the the years to assemble these tapes. Prior to the widespread use of the internet, these tapes were the one of the best ways to access great information and software. Second, thanks again for all of your personal assistance. You know the deal. ;) Mark has many of the DECUS tapes on his site but does he have the whole library/history? Are these on Eisner? Besides your systems/archives, is there anywhere where the entire historic archive of these tapes will be maintained? I have a very fragmented collection of the DECUS tapes. If mine was more complete, I'd put them up for download. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.642 ************************