INFO-VAX Wed, 12 Nov 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 613 Contents: Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? EDT: inserting special characters Re: EDT: inserting special characters Re: EDT: inserting special characters Re: Emulation Re: Emulation Re: Emulation RE: Emulation Re: Emulation Re: Emulation Re: Emulation Re: Emulation Re: Emulation Re: Emulation Re: Emulation Re: Emulation Re: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of $2400.00??? Re: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of $2400.00??? Re: Peek&Spy anyone ? Re: Peek&Spy anyone ? Re: Peek&Spy anyone ? Re: SFF (Send From File) Utility Re: Using Fortran to generate graphics Re: Using Fortran to generate graphics Re: Using Fortran to generate graphics ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:06:34 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Message-ID: In article , cornelius@eisner.decus.org (George Cornelius) writes: > $ MOUNT/ASSIST is normally appropriate at mount time, but if you have > shadow sets you may want to consider /POLICY=REQUIRE_MEMBERS as well, > since this gives you a chance to reject the mounting of a single > member when it may be possible that the single member that is seen > at boot is not the one with the most current data. Yes, a problem Ken has warned us about! Worth checking out the old threads. Having said that, I've never had the problem of a less-than-current disk being mounted. While I can see how it can happen, I think it must be a rather rare occurrence. Has anyone ever seen it happen, or seen that it WOULD HAVE happened had /POLICY=REQUIRE_MEMBERS not been in effect? One goal of shadowing is to be able to keep going if some members of the shadow set are gone, so it depends on whether (that is more important) or (having either the current data or none at all). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 15:29:59 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: EDT: inserting special characters Message-ID: I use this to get rid of quoted-printable stuff: DEFINE MACRO KQP FIND BUFFER KQP INSERT;s|=FC|ü|w INSERT;s|=DF|ß|w INSERT;s|=F6|ö|w INSERT;s|=E4|ä|w INSERT;s|=3D|=|w INSERT;s|=A0| |w INSERT;s|=92|'|w INSERT;s|=20||w INSERT;s|=C4|Ä|w INSERT;s|=D6|Ö|w INSERT;s|=DC|Ü|w INSERT;s|=BA|º|w INSERT;s|=95|·|w INSERT;s|=2E|.|w INSERT;s|=E9|é|w FIND LAST A few messages even encode and , so I did the obvious extension: INSERT;s|=0D||w INSERT;s|=0A||w However, it doesn't work. No error message; no effect. (Note: Of course, and are each represented above as 4 other characters; in the macro the actual ASCII 13 and 10 characters are used, inserted via "GOLD GOLD 3".) Is what I want to do possible? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 15:42:15 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: EDT: inserting special characters Message-ID: In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > A few messages even encode and , so I did the obvious > extension: > > INSERT;s|=0D||w > INSERT;s|=0A||w > > However, it doesn't work. No error message; no effect. > > (Note: Of course, and are each represented above as 4 other > characters; in the macro the actual ASCII 13 and 10 characters are used, > inserted via "GOLD GOLD 3".) > > Is what I want to do possible? Of course, it is possible interactively: SUBS - (GOLD ENTER) Deletes the search string, replaces it with the contents of the PASTE buffer, and finds the next occurrence of the string. To use: 1. Press SELECT. 2. Type the new text. 3. Press CUT. 4. Press FIND. 5. Enter the text you wish to replace. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 10:28:07 -0800 (PST) From: Peter Weaver Subject: Re: EDT: inserting special characters Message-ID: On Nov 12, 10:42=A0am, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > In article , hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de > (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > > > A few messages even encode and , so I did the obvious > > extension: > > > INSERT;s|=3D0D||w > > INSERT;s|=3D0A||w > > > However, it doesn't work. =A0No error message; no effect. > > > (Note: Of course, and are each represented above as 4 other > > characters; in the macro the actual ASCII 13 and 10 characters are used= , > > inserted via "GOLD GOLD 3".) > > > Is what I want to do possible? > ... When I tried your changes it did what you told it to do, but not what I think you wanted it to so I am not sure why you had "No effect." The code below will do what I think you wanted to do; Take the =3D0D and replace it with a line-break. I also changed it so it only uses 7-bit ASCII characters since I never like seeing non-printable characters in code if I can avoid it. (now that you asked an EDT question you know that you will get 7 replies on how to do this in TPU and 3 replies on how to do this in Teco, somewhere along the line Hein will post a Perl script...) ! ! Create a buffer with two blank lines (for some reason one ! blank line is not enough???) ! find buffer cr_buffer insert; insert; find last ! ! Define the KQP macro ! DEFINE MACRO KQP FIND BUFFER KQP change; is|=3DFC|^Z252ASC i|w/notype^Zl ex change; is|=3DDF|^Z223ASC i|w/notype^Zl ex change; is|=3DF6|^Z246ASC i|w/notype^Zl ex change; is|=3DE4|^Z228ASC i|w/notype^Zl ex change; is|=3D3D|^Z61ASC i|w/notype^Zl ex change; is|=3DA0|^Z160ASC i|w/notype^Zl ex change; is|=3D92|^Z146ASC i|w/notype^Zl ex change; is|=3D20|^Z32ASC i|w/notype^Zl ex change; is|=3DC4|^Z196ASC i|w/notype^Zl ex change; is|=3DD6|^Z214ASC i|w/notype^Zl ex change; is|=3DDC|^Z220ASC i|w/notype^Zl ex change; is|=3DBA|^Z186ASC i|w/notype^Zl ex change; is|=3D95|^Z149ASC i|w/notype^Zl ex change; is|=3D2E|^Z46ASC i|w/notype^Zl ex change; is|=3DE9|^Z233ASC i|w/notype^Zl ex ! Linefeed/CR Combination INSERT;%B INSERT;change; 9999('=3D0A=3D0D' cutsr paste=3Dcr_buffer) ex ! CR/Linefeed Combination INSERT;%B INSERT;change; 9999('=3D0D=3D0A' cutsr paste=3Dcr_buffer) ex ! Linefeed INSERT;%B INSERT;change; 9999('=3D0A' cutsr paste=3Dcr_buffer) ex ! CR INSERT;%B INSERT;change; 9999('=3D0D' cutsr paste=3Dcr_buffer) ex INSERT;%B find last ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 05:20:14 -0800 (PST) From: IanMiller Subject: Re: Emulation Message-ID: <4528523c-f5e2-4631-ad03-8ee83309a231@q30g2000prq.googlegroups.com> On Nov 11, 8:22=A0pm, Wilm Boerhout wrote: > s...@obanion.us vaguely mentioned on 11-11-2008 19:55: > > > I would probably try the SIMH VAX emulator first, since it's free, as > > proof of concept and test the migration strategy, because that may be > > the hardest part. =A0Since this is an HSC / CI cluster, it's unlikely > > that any of the existing hardware will connect to a new system, so > > moving the data may have to use the 10BASE Ethernet (though I'm > > guessing that they on Ethernet?). > > =A0 [snip] > > This issue has been beaten to death here and elsewhere. You cannot run > commercial VMS on SIMH, without violating your VMS license. VMS can only > run on HP's VAX/Alpha/Itanium hardware, and on the CHARON platform > provided you buy a transfer license from HP. > > /Wilm > > [yes I 'm a CHARON reseller, but I will not profit from this particular > deal. Hate the FUD though.] the current HP words on this are at http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/sri-charon-vax-emulator.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 06:59:07 -0800 (PST) From: emu Subject: Re: Emulation Message-ID: <5eec04c4-b58f-4cd8-9d4f-611f367b7ec4@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com> On Nov 11, 1:22 pm, Wilm Boerhout wrote: > s...@obanion.us vaguely mentioned on 11-11-2008 19:55: > This issue has been beaten to death here and elsewhere. You cannot run > commercial VMS on SIMH, without violating your VMS license. VMS can only > run on HP's VAX/Alpha/Itanium hardware, and on the CHARON platform > provided you buy a transfer license from HP. But you could run SIMH commercially, if you buy the transfer licenses. The license I have here, doesn't say anything specific about any emulator/simulator. Just says "intel platform". Which is BTW funny, as HP/Compaq like to sell AMD too. > [yes I 'm a CHARON reseller, but I will not profit from this particular > deal. Hate the FUD though.] Yes, we can understand, why you would like to see it this way ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 10:07:18 -0500 From: "David Turner, islandco.com" Subject: Re: Emulation Message-ID: Why not buy 2 Vax 4000-108 with original HP Licenses (from Island of course) ??? You are looking at way less than $50K with cluster licenses, VMS licenses etc. This would include shared disk etc. A lot cheaper than emulation plus it is a REAL Vax ! They are small too. Same size as an Alpha PWS or XP1000 Call or email me David -- David B Turner ============================================= Island Computers US Corp PO Box 86 Tybee GA 31328 Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332 x201, Mobile x251 Email: dturner@islandco.com International & Local: (001)- 404-806-7749 Fax: 912 786 8505 Web: www.islandco.com ============================================= "Tim Wilkinson" wrote in message news:oZdSk.85907$E41.40889@text.news.virginmedia.com... > Well tell me how good/bad it is. > > At home I play with simh and have never had a problem. However, my > employers still have a cluster with a pair of 6100 for legacy data and > about 4 interactive users. It is costing us about £30,000 per annum to > maintain/run. > > They are clustered for resilience but the HSC went down for 1/2 a day last > month which is making the internal customer uneasy about reliability. We > did have a spare HSC but the maintenance company insisted in shipping in > parts rather than use an unknown controller that had been sat in a store > room for 6 years. > > So the customer is asking about moving it all to virtualisation. Guess we > have oversold our VMWare setup. > > > First issue is that we should be clear of our legal requirement on data > retention in about 18 months, and the only live app should have been > replaced by then. Therefore it does not make sense to install new > dedicated hardware for 18 months. We do not have sources for the two main > legacy applications and the vendors ceased trading some years ago. Hence I > have suggested to my employers the emulation route, and would guess they > would opt towards a Charon solution as they are still very wary of open > source and a perceived lack of support and/or problem ownership etc. > > What is the opinion out there in the land of real users, how > quick/involved is it to set up an emulated VAX system? (I know I did it > with simh in a couple of hours and I had not touched VMS for at least 10 > years). What sort of host platform is required in the real world? What > lessons did the people who have replaced VAX hardware with emulation > learn? and what mistakes? > > I guess if we do opt for an emulation based replacement I would end up > being the PM. and having raised the issue, suggested a potential solution > I would be keen to avoid egg on my face if reliability/cost of ownership > etc. fail to meet expectation. > > We have a history of under estimating project costs/ complexity in order > to make the transition through mahogany row and I am keen that this is not > another typical project by identifying all risk/costs early. > > Any advice you guys out there can offer would be appreciated. Remember > this is very early days. No project has yet been identified/sanctioned > etc. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 15:05:16 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Emulation Message-ID: <9D02E14BC0A2AE43A5D16A4CD8EC5A593ED9531600@GVW1158EXB.americas.hpqcorp.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: Stanley F. Quayle [mailto:infovax@stanq.com] > Sent: November 11, 2008 11:23 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Emulation > > Gosh, I step out of the room for a while, and WW III breaks out over > CHARON-VAX. After > donning my Teflon suit, I wade into the fray... > > I don't know about other CHARON-VAX resellers [Shameless Plug Alert > (tm) -- I am a CHARON > reseller], but the CHARON-VAX/6610 Plus product DOES NOT sell for > $100,000. Even > including annual support and a generous amount of migration help, it is > still under that > figure. > > Please let me cite a CHARON-VAX/6610 Plus site that is saving $100,000 > per year, just in > maintenance costs. Not to mention electricity and air conditioning: > > http://www.stanq.com/wf1.html > > People buy not on price, but on value -- even a $100,000 emulator makes > sense if it > avoids $200,000 in headaches. > > Kerry, I know that you're not big on CHARON-VAX. However, both your > job and mine are to > develop the best possible solution for a customer. Sometimes migrating > to Integrity is > the answer, sometimes emulation is the answer. Heck, even rewriting > could be the answer > (as sad as that might be -- another VMS customer lost). > > It's not my job to "force" people to adopt CHARON products. I've > steered people away > from emulation when it didn't make sense. I don't run my business like > the old parable, > "Give a 3-year-old a hammer and everything needs pounding". > > --Stan Quayle > Quayle Consulting Inc. > > ---------- > Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX > 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH 43147 USA > stan-at-stanq-dot-com http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html > "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option" > Stan, While they may be out of date, I have quotes from Charon re-sellers to backup the costs I quoted. You carefully quoted a 6610 - what about a VAX 6620? VAX 6630? VAX 6660? Heck, I am sure there are others here who have received quotes which will also back this up. And like I stated, they may not need a 66xx license, but we don't know workload either, so one cannot dismiss this until the target workload is understood. Anyway, just to clarify your comments - It is not that I am against prod's like Charon, there are a number of niches where it can be a good solution. However, it is just that all too often I hear about "simply move this environment to a VM and we are done - no more expensive HW to maintain." Mgmt gets sold on the concept as they know about what it costs in their Wintel/VMware world. And then the full cost becomes known. Let's assume a VAX 6610 Charon license + annual support + new server and storage hw + consulting is a shade less than $100K. The original note stated they needed a solution for only 18 months. How many Cust's would go to their Mgmt to spend $100K on an App environment that is expected to be gone in 18 months? And before anyone states electrical cost savings, it is usually facilities that foots the electrical bill - not the IT shop, so the IT manager is usually "concerned" about electrical costs, but that is not something that impacts his / her budget directly. What I always recommend is Cust's should understand the whole picture before making any commitments. And this applies to Windows environments as well using prod's like VMware (although Charon costs are significantly higher than VMware). Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-254-8911 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 18:10:57 +0100 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: Emulation Message-ID: <491b0e3a$0$8597$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl> Main, Kerry vaguely mentioned on 11-11-2008 22:34: [snip] > Perhaps, but we don't know the workload (4 users doing cpu intensive > or disk intensive workloads? Don't know). In addition, the licenses for > lesser models are also still expensive when one considers the app is going > away in 18 months. > > All I am saying is when going down this path, get a real quote based on > real workload and associated resource estimation so you can make an > informed decision. > > This quote should include all Charon/HP/third party ISV licenses, new > server / storage HW required, consulting, pilots etc. > > You should also confirm any third party ISV app's are supported and do > not require new licenses in such an environment. > > Fwiw, I recommend the exact same strategy for any Cust on any platform > using any virtualization product from any vendor. I have more than 20 years experience with designing and quoting VAX and Alpha solutions. Although (or because?) I'm currently a CHARON reseller, I'm still a professional. My quotes always take the workload into account, and contain the full hardware, software and (transfer) license and service costs. My customers tell me in *all* cases, the payback time is way under 18 months by *their* accounting standards. Why should I tell you otherwise? (Mind you, I'm in Europe. YMMV). Second hand VAX or Alpha is hardly an option here (We have no Island Computers lookalike, so David, if you'd like to go international...). Itanium migation is *always* perceived as too expensive. And Kerry, could you set things straight about the CHARON Transfer licenses (not) being used for SIMH? It was never the intention, but should I assume another position on this issue? IMO the transfer licenses are for CHARON platforms only. /Wilm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 18:14:31 +0100 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: Emulation Message-ID: <491b0f10$0$8603$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl> Tom Linden vaguely mentioned on 12-11-2008 2:50: > That transfer license costs $6K to HP (Not sure if SRI gets any of that) > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/sri-charon-vax-emulator.html > and then there is the cost of the Charon license. But it may still > make sense financially That is the maximum, when you quote a large virtual VAX 6xx0 In real life, when a virtual VAX 4000 can do the job (lotsa VUPs on a 3GHz Intel/AMD), the transfer license is $1,000 a piece. (And all the money goes to HP, not to SRI/Stromasys) /Wilm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:44:23 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Emulation Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:14:31 -0800, Wilm Boerhout wrote: > Tom Linden vaguely mentioned on 12-11-2008 2:50: > >> That transfer license costs $6K to HP (Not sure if SRI gets any of that) >> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/sri-charon-vax-emulator.html >> and then there is the cost of the Charon license. But it may still >> make sense financially > > That is the maximum, when you quote a large virtual VAX 6xx0 Actually the maximum is twice that, it is $6K for 6610,20 and $12K for 6630 to 6660 > > In real life, when a virtual VAX 4000 can do the job (lotsa VUPs on a > 3GHz Intel/AMD), the transfer license is $1,000 a piece. > > (And all the money goes to HP, not to SRI/Stromasys) > > /Wilm -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:50:27 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Emulation Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:10:57 -0800, Wilm Boerhout wrote: > Main, Kerry vaguely mentioned on 11-11-2008 22:34: > > [snip] > >> Perhaps, but we don't know the workload (4 users doing cpu intensive >> or disk intensive workloads? Don't know). In addition, the licenses for >> lesser models are also still expensive when one considers the app is >> going >> away in 18 months. >> All I am saying is when going down this path, get a real quote based on >> real workload and associated resource estimation so you can make an >> informed decision. >> This quote should include all Charon/HP/third party ISV licenses, new >> server / storage HW required, consulting, pilots etc. >> You should also confirm any third party ISV app's are supported and do >> not require new licenses in such an environment. >> Fwiw, I recommend the exact same strategy for any Cust on any platform >> using any virtualization product from any vendor. > > I have more than 20 years experience with designing and quoting VAX and > Alpha solutions. Although (or because?) I'm currently a CHARON reseller, > I'm still a professional. My quotes always take the workload into > account, and contain the full hardware, software and (transfer) license > and service costs. My customers tell me in *all* cases, the payback time > is way under 18 months by *their* accounting standards. Why should I > tell you otherwise? (Mind you, I'm in Europe. YMMV). Second hand VAX or > Alpha is hardly an option here (We have no Island Computers lookalike, > so David, if you'd like to go international...). Itanium migation is > *always* perceived as too expensive. > > And Kerry, could you set things straight about the CHARON Transfer > licenses (not) being used for SIMH? It was never the intention, but > should I assume another position on this issue? IMO the transfer > licenses are for CHARON platforms only. > I have wondered before about the legality of limiting it to CHARON. It seems like restraint of trade, which is illegal. > /Wilm > -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 10:03:12 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Emulation Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 05:20:14 -0800, IanMiller wrote: > the current HP words on this are at > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/sri-charon-vax-emulator.html Ian, I once called HP and they could not find the part number that is listed on that page, QP-6KQAA-AA -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 19:19:28 +0100 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: Emulation Message-ID: <491b1e49$0$8597$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl> Tom Linden vaguely mentioned on 12-11-2008 18:50: > I have wondered before about the legality of limiting it to CHARON. It > seems like restraint of trade, which is illegal. Or not. Your original VMS license only allows you to run VMS on a choice of VAX, Alpha or Itanium all from HP (see the VMS SPD). That appears to be/have been legal. But first of all, it's HP who grants the transfer licenses, so they should speak up of what their intention is for commercial use (CHARON only or any emulator). If it is then contended in a particular jurisdiction, let the judge decide. Make some lawyers happy... /Wilm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 19:22:56 +0100 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: Emulation Message-ID: <491b1f19$0$8597$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl> Tom Linden vaguely mentioned on 12-11-2008 19:03: > Ian, I once called HP and they could not find the part number that is > listed on that page, QP-6KQAA-AA I can order here in Europe at any HP reseller. It's in the master price list/database/whatever. It takes about 6 weeks to appear on my desk, a nice piece of paper backed by a useful piece cardboard, and shrinkwrapped to boot, apparently printed to order in the US. /Wilm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:44:50 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Emulation Message-ID: Tom Linden wrote: > On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 05:20:14 -0800, IanMiller wrote: > >> the current HP words on this are at >> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/sri-charon-vax-emulator.html > > Ian, I once called HP and they could not find the part number that is > listed on that page, QP-6KQAA-AA > Did you ask Sue?? If that QP-6KQAA-AA part is still available, Sue will know where to go and whom to ask! ------------------------------ Date: 12 Nov 2008 07:15:08 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of $2400.00??? Message-ID: In article <4918ef81$0$90266$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes: > > 2) It is not only US citizens that are allowed. Green card > holders are also allowed. "US persons" are allowed. Which the State Department defines close to, but not exactly as, citizens plus green card holders. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Nov 2008 07:08:49 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of $2400.00??? Message-ID: <01ka6aj5Wl1z@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <0004b09d$0$2527$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: > > Seriously though, does ITAR still make sense ? ITAR as currently written and carried out is pure paranoia. It is an attempt to control information, which never works very well, and it creates a huge beaurocracy attemtping to classify and control more information than can be imagined. It is hurting American industry's ability to compete. I think it is an outgrowth of an American contractor's loss of a legal battle over information given to China. According to the contractor the US State Department told them to go help China with development issues in thier launch vehicle. Then the US government succesfully sued the contractor for giving away information, not classified by the military, with potential military application. The old saying "an army travels on its stomach" is true enough, so do you need permission to tell someone how to warm up a can of soup? Is how to load an AK45 common knowledge that can be freely shared witrh anyone? To settle these questions, the standard answer of the US government was put into place: more paperwork. This keeps the contractor lawyers happy (and employed) because they can point to a piece of paper that says the State Department allowed them to give out the information they're giving out. It keeps the beaurocrats in the State Department happy because they think they're controlling information. And the Bush administration's "shoot the messenger" attitude isn't helping. Foreign contractors can get the job done faster since they can talk to foreign customers without waiting first going through this. Oh, and in case you didn't read the disclaimer in my sig, yes this is just my personal opinion. As seen from the inside. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:55:45 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Peek&Spy anyone ? Message-ID: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: >> Quick update... >> >> I've now runed a few tests with Peek&Spy. >> >> The major problem right now is that is doesn't log >> data going *in* to VMS if it isn't echo'ed back out. >> >> Some security concern (not logging non-echoed passwords) >> that I can understand, but that breaks my use of it... >> >> What I need is something that would give the same logging >> as if I had attached a RS232/serial line "sniffer" to >> the actual terminal server port. That is, log everything >> going in and out no matter the VMS terminal/device settings. >> >> That's about Peek&Spy... >> >> >> About CONTRL... >> >> I'm currently trying to find a manual for CONTRL, the >> www.raxco.com site is *very* succesfull in hiding everything >> having anything with VMS to do. They only wants to sell >> Disk defraggers for Windows, as far as I understand from >> the actual web site. >> >> If someone could show me how to find anything VMS related >> by clicking from http://www.raxco.com/ that would be nice. >> >> Late update... !! >> >> While writing this I got a couple of manuals mailed >> directly from Raxco... Fine then, now into the manuals. >> >> I will first see if the manual tells me something about >> similar restrictions on the logging as Peek&Spy has. If not >> I'll try in "live" and we'll see... >> >> Thanks for listening... >> Jan-Erik. > > If you have any specific questions re CONTRL, feel free to ask me. > Fine. The manual didn't say anything about blocking non-echoed data (in the say Peek&Spy does). I'll probably test it later today... Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 01:43:27 -0800 (PST) From: Rob Subject: Re: Peek&Spy anyone ? Message-ID: <449516ae-b353-4642-bbfa-4b07b711d83d@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com> On Nov 12, 8:55=A0am, Jan-Erik S=F6derholm wrote: > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > In article , =3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-= Erik_S=3DF6derholm?=3D writes: > >> Quick update... > > >> I've now runed a few tests with Peek&Spy. > > >> The major problem right now is that is doesn't log > >> data going *in* to VMS if it isn't echo'ed back out. > > >> Some security concern (not logging non-echoed passwords) > >> that I can understand, but that breaks my use of it... > > >> What I need is something that would give the same logging > >> as if I had attached a RS232/serial line "sniffer" to > >> the actual terminal server port. That is, log everything > >> going in and out no matter the VMS terminal/device settings. > > >> That's about Peek&Spy... > > >> About CONTRL... > > >> I'm currently trying to find a manual for CONTRL, the > >>www.raxco.comsite is *very* succesfull in hiding everything > >> having anything with VMS to do. They only wants to sell > >> Disk defraggers for Windows, as far as I understand from > >> the actual web site. > > >> If someone could show me how to find anything VMS related > >> by clicking fromhttp://www.raxco.com/that would be nice. > > >> Late update... !! > > >> While writing this I got a couple of manuals mailed > >> directly from Raxco... Fine then, now into the manuals. > > >> I will first see if the manual tells me something about > >> similar restrictions on the logging as Peek&Spy has. If not > >> I'll try in "live" and we'll see... > > >> Thanks for listening... > >> Jan-Erik. > > > If you have any specific questions re CONTRL, feel free to ask me. > > Fine. The manual didn't say anything about blocking non-echoed > data (in the say Peek&Spy does). I'll probably test it later > today... > > Jan-Erik.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Jan, we use CONTRL for watching the traffic out of our barcode readers and conveyor control boxes, and everything is viewable. Like Vaxman, let me know if you need any help with CONTRL. Rob. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 11:50:06 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Peek&Spy anyone ? Message-ID: Rob wrote: > On Nov 12, 8:55 am, Jan-Erik Söderholm > wrote: >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >>> In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: >>>> Quick update... >>>> I've now runed a few tests with Peek&Spy. >>>> The major problem right now is that is doesn't log >>>> data going *in* to VMS if it isn't echo'ed back out. >>>> Some security concern (not logging non-echoed passwords) >>>> that I can understand, but that breaks my use of it... >>>> What I need is something that would give the same logging >>>> as if I had attached a RS232/serial line "sniffer" to >>>> the actual terminal server port. That is, log everything >>>> going in and out no matter the VMS terminal/device settings. >>>> That's about Peek&Spy... >>>> About CONTRL... >>>> I'm currently trying to find a manual for CONTRL, the >>>> www.raxco.comsite is *very* succesfull in hiding everything >>>> having anything with VMS to do. They only wants to sell >>>> Disk defraggers for Windows, as far as I understand from >>>> the actual web site. >>>> If someone could show me how to find anything VMS related >>>> by clicking fromhttp://www.raxco.com/that would be nice. >>>> Late update... !! >>>> While writing this I got a couple of manuals mailed >>>> directly from Raxco... Fine then, now into the manuals. >>>> I will first see if the manual tells me something about >>>> similar restrictions on the logging as Peek&Spy has. If not >>>> I'll try in "live" and we'll see... >>>> Thanks for listening... >>>> Jan-Erik. >>> If you have any specific questions re CONTRL, feel free to ask me. >> Fine. The manual didn't say anything about blocking non-echoed >> data (in the say Peek&Spy does). I'll probably test it later >> today... >> >> Jan-Erik.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Jan, we use CONTRL for watching the traffic out of our barcode readers > and conveyor control boxes, and everything is viewable. > > Like Vaxman, let me know if you need any help with CONTRL. > > Rob. OK, fine, here comes the first one... :-) I have installed CONTRL on a test box (Alpha XP900). I opened two telnet/ssh terminals and entered "CONTRL WATCH /NONOTIFY " and everything runs just fine. A MONITOR SYS session is perfectly copied to the watching terminal... Now, I tried to enter SET TERM/NOECHO on the watched terminal, and all input disapears from the watching terminal. This worries me a little, since as far as I know, all input from the production equipment is not echoed back. Is there something to make WATCH see/show non-echoed input ? Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 01:39:39 -0800 (PST) From: Rob Subject: Re: SFF (Send From File) Utility Message-ID: <7e4900f3-d0cc-4d52-a4f5-cfc6d5b7e7e6@k1g2000prb.googlegroups.com> On Nov 12, 1:04=A0am, "Michael D. Ober" wrote: > "JF Mezei" wrote in message > > news:0005d3ef$0$2562$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com... > > > Michael D. Ober wrote: > >> appears to send a message per recipient domain even though we're using > >> the > >> alternate gateway in the SMTP configuration. > > > If you stop the SMTP queues, and then run your message against SFF, doe= s > > it generate multiple jobs into the queue or just one job ? > > IF, > > Good catch. =A0Only a single message was queued. =A0Apparently the split = is > occurring in either our Exchange server or in the SMTP handler in VMS. > > Mike. You could easily trace the port to your SMTP server to see how VMS is sending the message. I take it sending all recipients in a BCC isn't an option to overcome this? Rob. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 15:59:58 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Using Fortran to generate graphics Message-ID: In article <8d57e97c-ec61-4e51-a0aa-979880793924@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, PR writes: > Since the graphics do not have to be real time, I was thinking of > doing it on a VMS system (IA64). I was wondering if anyone would care > to share their thoughts on how doable this is, and on any graphics > libraries available for Fortran 90. They grpahics need to be in some > hi-res format, but at a minimum, a TIFF will do I suppose. The sat > shots are coming in as TIFFs. What output format do you need? It's not in a form which I could pass on to someone else, but I inherited some Fortran code which produces PostScript output. I mainly used it for generating 2-D plots with the value of each pixel represented by greyscale and then overlaying that with contours. If you know PostScript, you can just write some code to generate the corresponding PostScript commands. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:03:15 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Using Fortran to generate graphics Message-ID: In article <8d57e97c-ec61-4e51-a0aa-979880793924@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, PR writes: > Since the graphics do not have to be real time, I was thinking of > doing it on a VMS system (IA64). I was wondering if anyone would care > to share their thoughts on how doable this is, and on any graphics > libraries available for Fortran 90. They grpahics need to be in some > hi-res format, but at a minimum, a TIFF will do I suppose. The sat > shots are coming in as TIFFs. I don't think it runs on VMS, but about 15 years ago I used a package called Date Explorer on IBM AIX RS6000. I don't know what language it was written in. It is a VERY powerful program which can probably do all you want and more, and has a nice interactive GUI. It can also run in batch in a scripting mode. It's one of those programs which has so many features AND works so well that it's amazing it could have been written in a finite time! Maybe someone here knows more about the current status. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:33:14 +0000 (UTC) From: m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer) Subject: Re: Using Fortran to generate graphics Message-ID: In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > > I don't think it runs on VMS, but about 15 years ago I used a package > called Date Explorer on IBM AIX RS6000. I don't know what language it > was written in. It is a VERY powerful program which can probably do all > you want and more, and has a nice interactive GUI. It can also run in > batch in a scripting mode. It's one of those programs which has so many > features AND works so well that it's amazing it could have been written > in a finite time! > > Maybe someone here knows more about the current status. > Yes, I can remember that, some of my colleagues used it a lot back in the old times. One needed a license to run it, last version I know of was 3.1.4. It is/was available on a variety of platforms: http://www.research.ibm.com/dx/binaries314b/DXDownloadHursley.html In the mean time, it has gone Open Source, I guess: http://www.opendx.org/ ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.613 ************************