INFO-VAX Thu, 09 Oct 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 546 Contents: cheap Air Jordan 23 x Air Force one Fusion www.3Akicks.com Re: Elvis is dead - get over it! how to configure infoserver functionality in vms 8.3 Re: how to configure infoserver functionality in vms 8.3 MX list revival Re: New LaserJet fun (or upward compatibility? What is that?) Re: New LaserJet fun (or upward compatibility? What is that?) Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster Re: Starting a CDE session over SSH? 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Message-ID: <6l6aisFapgnpU1@mid.individual.net> In article <355b41ea-08b9-4a37-873d-a72620a8881d@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, PR writes: > On Oct 8, 7:46 am, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: >> In article <871eaafc-2d55-41cd-82c2-cd1f9882b...@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, >>         PR writes: >> >> >> >> > On Oct 5, 4:53 am, "Richard Maher" >> > wrote: >> >> Hi Michael, >> >> >> > Then why do you bother with VMS at all? >> >> >> 'cos it's the best server on the planet you fucking idiot! >> >> >> If only the incompetent, self-serving, vms-appologists at HP would open the >> >> flood-gates and let the users *INTEGRATE* their VMS apps with this >> >> feature-rich, cheap, ubiquitous, full-function client platform(s) then maybe >> >> we might get somewhere? >> >> >> Regards Richard Maher >> >> >> "Michael Kraemer" wrote in message >> >> >>news:gc9spk$1lc$00$1@news.t-online.com... >> >> >> > Richard Maher schrieb: >> >> >> > > Personally, I love FireFox and Firebug! I love Flex (and FlexBuilder)! I >> >> > > love .NET (a bit less)! Silverlight is getting better! I love Java >> >> Applets! >> >> > > (and the new 1.6_10 jnlp deployment options) I love Chrome's Application >> >> > > Launch shortcuts! I love HTML/DOM/Javascript! I love the price of >> >> laptops, >> >> > > PCs and Macs! I have no problem with Windows! *And so do the users!* >> >> >> > Then why do you bother with VMS at all? >> > Amen brother  0 thou do preach to the choir! >> > I've said it before and I will say it yet again, from a dead zero >> > start, I've put in five VMS installations in a little less than a >> > year, including the time to convert the darn software, spec out RX26xx >> > servers, install em, and even - get this - >> > *get paid!* >> > If 100 more people would get out there and evangelize VMS, a whole >> > hell of a lot of GOOD things would happen. >> >> Yeah, that will be great great for youyr career.  I did it here for >> years and I can still hear then snickering when I walk by in the hall >> as they whisper to each other, "There goes our resident dinosaur". >> I just recently had someone visiting the department on business look >> at my Storageworks Cabinet and comment on it's obsoleteness. >> > I don't get laughed at, though people are often laughing with me. Keep telling yourself that. > Especially customers who get what they need at a price that is fair > and affordable. > Most especially when we have figured out a way to outsmart the > "common wisdom". Who needs "common" wisdom anyway? That just pretty > much means you are running with the herd - not that you are doing > things "right". "right" is very hard to define but probably the best is delivering what the customer wants. How many want VMS anymore? >> > It is a GREAT server, and affordable. >> >> How is VMS more affordable than Windows?  We pay something like $300-600 >> a year and can run any and as much MS Server software as we want.  No doubt >> it's a great server, but technical superiority has never been a requirement >> in this industry. >> > Even with educational discounts, I fail to see how your $600 per > person works. I didn't say per person. $300-600(I don't know the exact amount as I don't sign the check). Period. And we get to install as many copies of any OS and development product as we want. We can even provide copies to bona fide students that they can take with them when they leave. Quite a difference from the VMS Edu Program even at its best. > And it *certainly* does not work for business, where > discounts are more in the 20 to 30 percent range on "market priced" > Microsoft products. > Windows Vista or XP, A Windows Server license, a Windows Server CAL, > and Exchange CAL, a Terminal Services CAL, MS Office license, > AntiVirus license, and custom software license. > I can put a small VMS system, and MacOS on the desktops (or LInux), in > a site and make it all work for a heck of a lot less than the cost of > Windos. And now we are back to the othewr problem with VMS that has been pointed out here time and time again. You have to rely on other OSes to fill in all the holes. That means additional cost, additional hardware and additional needed expertise. > At least in the vertical markets where I sell my software. And > it makes a hell of a difference the the bottom line in a small > business - a concept foreign indeed to some of your colleagues in > academia. I think others here will confirm that "small businesses" are not in VMS's remaining target area. In "small businesses" VMS can't possibly compete with its main competitor, Linux. A lot cheaper and a whole lot easier to find the expertise needed to get it up and keep it there. You can knock academia all you want but remember, it was the exposure to Unix in academia that out it where it is today and VMS has completely lost any of that exposure while MS is courting it constantly. Guess which one knows which side their bread is buttered on? > I will grant you that in large business settings, there are other > operators that come into play and make it difficult to move in VMS and > phase out Winders, but those factors are not present at all in the SMB > world, and melt away in the face of hard cold facts in most rational > large businesses. > VMS is far from dead, it is easily sold into the right markets, and > far from being ignored by HP sales reps. It is often not promoted "often not"!! It is never promoted except to those who already know about it. > because they do not understand it, nor do they have any idea how to > evaluate it in a business situation. Ignorance like that, is easily > corrected. The expertise and support *is* available from HP. That is very much at odds with the continuous comments here from people who have been doing VMS for a lot longer than I have. How many people who are/were regular posters here have we seen leave the VMS fold, not because they wanted to but because they have families to feed. > Don't get me wrong, VMS is far from perfect, and in some ways, the > existence of the hobbyist world is holding VMS back from being > embraced by the business world. Now that's funny. If it were not for the hobbyist program there would be little more than a very small handful of machines still running. I would be willing to bet there are more hobbyist systems running that commercial ones. And hobbyist program or not, the business world does not even know about VMS any more and those who do think it died years ago. And I have been told that to my face by someone at a Fortune 100 company who was not at all willing to listen to any argument to the contrary. > It *is* kinda cool to watch something > old world, like a PDP-11 or a MicroVAX. But it is not presenting a > great face to the potential buyers. YMMV. I often wonder if we have reached the point where there are now more commercial PDP-11's running than VMS systems. Because the VMS constant is unchanging, we may never know. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 03:28:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Naveen Subject: how to configure infoserver functionality in vms 8.3 Message-ID: <4963a543-1620-4ac3-b9a4-f8d583cb765d@r38g2000prr.googlegroups.com> I have 14 VXT terminals (vxt 2000+) which boots from 2 infoservers(infoserver sw1000). Each infoserver has hard- disk (DK3:) which contains booting software for these vxts. We have five Host systems which were on vms 7.1 Now we have upgraded our hardware and OS. ( DS-25 )which is operating with VMS 8.3 .My host systems are not in a cluster. We want to remove infoservers . Booting software of VXTs are of version 2.1 which is on hard-disk (DK3:) of infoservers. Each infoserver has one hard-disk (device name is DK3:) Some X-session applications are running of these remote Vxts. So please help us to boot these vxts from our host systems Thanx in advance. ------------------------------ Date: 9 Oct 2008 08:05:52 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: how to configure infoserver functionality in vms 8.3 Message-ID: In article <4963a543-1620-4ac3-b9a4-f8d583cb765d@r38g2000prr.googlegroups.com>, Naveen writes: > I have 14 VXT terminals (vxt 2000+) which > boots from 2 infoservers(infoserver sw1000). Each infoserver has hard- > disk (DK3:) which contains booting software for these vxts. We have > five Host systems which were on vms 7.1 Now we have upgraded our > hardware and OS. You can boot a VXT off of almost anything. MOP and bootp are supported. Imagesand installation instructions were shipped for VMS, Ultrix, Solaris, HP-UX, and others. Origininally you could only use the "virtual" (memory) xt capabilties if you booted off of an Infoserver. Nowdays VMS includes all the support that Infoserver had, so you should be able to use virtual memory while booting off of a recent version of VMS. You will need that virtual memory for most modern applications. Its not unusual to run out of virtual memory when running a browser. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 10:09:20 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: MX list revival Message-ID: We have revived the mailing list just send a SUBSCRIBE to mx-list-request at our domain, HELP for list of commands -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 17:58:04 +0200 From: Michael Unger Subject: Re: New LaserJet fun (or upward compatibility? What is that?) Message-ID: <6l6pavFap7qjU3@mid.individual.net> On 2008-10-08 23:11, "JF Mezei" wrote: > [...] > > Postscript is the one fully documented and stable and upwards compatible > printing language and has been for decades now. And while it is owned by > Adobe and technically proprietary, the language is fully documented and > easily available in books etc. You can even get the Language Reference Manual for free from Adobe -- look into the "developers area" at their web site and search for the PDF format manual. > [...] Michael -- Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 18:08:48 +0200 From: Michael Unger Subject: Re: New LaserJet fun (or upward compatibility? What is that?) Message-ID: <6l6pb0Fap7qjU4@mid.individual.net> On 2008-10-08 23:20, "Jan-Erik S=F6derholm" wrote: > [...] >=20 > It's, as far as I've seen, far easier to write PCL-commands > then Postscript code. In particular if you're "just" > including some PCL commands in your otherwise text-only > reports. "moveto" is one of the less complicated PostScript commands ... ;-) > [...] Michael --=20 Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 10:31:39 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster Message-ID: In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: > > Presumably, instead of sending a PDF file directly to the printer (as I > > could with a PostScript file), Xpdf would first transform it into > > something else? How would that work? Presumably something better than > > a bitmap. > > > > Direct printing of PDF files was mentioned here on c.o.v as a > possible DCPS addition in some later version (of DCPS). So what happens now? What format does it get converted to? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 11:59:19 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster Message-ID: Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > In article , > =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= > writes: > >>> Presumably, instead of sending a PDF file directly to the printer (as I >>> could with a PostScript file), Xpdf would first transform it into >>> something else? How would that work? Presumably something better than >>> a bitmap. >>> >> Direct printing of PDF files was mentioned here on c.o.v as a >> possible DCPS addition in some later version (of DCPS). > > So what happens now? Now ? > What format does it get converted to? Converted by what ? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 13:39:18 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster Message-ID: In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: > >>> Presumably, instead of sending a PDF file directly to the printer (as I > >>> could with a PostScript file), Xpdf would first transform it into > >>> something else? How would that work? Presumably something better than > >>> a bitmap. > >>> > >> Direct printing of PDF files was mentioned here on c.o.v as a > >> possible DCPS addition in some later version (of DCPS). > > > > So what happens now? > > Now ? > > > What format does it get converted to? > > Converted by what ? By whatever means one uses to print PDF files, if the printer can't handle them directly. According to JF, it is converted to PostScript. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:47:59 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster Message-ID: Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > In article , > =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= > writes: > >>>>> Presumably, instead of sending a PDF file directly to the printer (as I >>>>> could with a PostScript file), Xpdf would first transform it into >>>>> something else? How would that work? Presumably something better than >>>>> a bitmap. >>>>> >>>> Direct printing of PDF files was mentioned here on c.o.v as a >>>> possible DCPS addition in some later version (of DCPS). >>> So what happens now? >> Now ? >> >>> What format does it get converted to? >> Converted by what ? > > By whatever means one uses to print PDF files, if the printer can't > handle them directly. > > According to JF, it is converted to PostScript. On VMS ? Or are you talking about printing from a PC ? In that case it's converted by the printer driver to whatever the actual printer supports, usualy PCL or Postscript (or, if using host-based rendering, to some internal format). But that's obvious... I'm lost... :-) Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 10:05:10 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster Message-ID: <48ee10b7$0$12402$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > Or are you talking about printing from a PC ? > In that case it's converted by the printer driver > to whatever the actual printer supports, usualy PCL > or Postscript From a PC, Adobe Reader does have the ability to use standard printer drivers and generate PCL or whatever. Not sure how it does that. The application probably converts the PDF code into internal representation of each "object", and then converts it to whatecver for printing using the printer drivers. But on VMS, what we can probably expect is a simple conversion from the embedded simplified postscript into actual postscript code sent to the printer. Perhaps Mr Anderson can chime in and explain what the plans would be. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 18:18:54 +0200 From: Michael Unger Subject: Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster Message-ID: <6l6pb0Fap7qjU5@mid.individual.net> On 2008-10-08 21:20, "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" wrote: > Perhaps, but even quite old, used printers might be an option for me. > Also, "Will it work with VMS?" is a question the sales literature > probably doesn't answer. If it says something like "printer drivers are available for Windows 2000, XP and Vista as well as for Mac OS X 10.3 and up" you can conclude that it most probably won't work with VMS very well ... > [...] Michael -- Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 17:00:48 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster Message-ID: In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > > In article , > > =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= > > writes: > > > >>>>> Presumably, instead of sending a PDF file directly to the printer (as I > >>>>> could with a PostScript file), Xpdf would first transform it into > >>>>> something else? How would that work? Presumably something better than > >>>>> a bitmap. > >>>>> > >>>> Direct printing of PDF files was mentioned here on c.o.v as a > >>>> possible DCPS addition in some later version (of DCPS). > >>> So what happens now? > >> Now ? > >> > >>> What format does it get converted to? > >> Converted by what ? > > > > By whatever means one uses to print PDF files, if the printer can't > > handle them directly. > > > > According to JF, it is converted to PostScript. > > On VMS ? > > Or are you talking about printing from a PC ? Sorry, Xpdf on VMS. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 16:34:02 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster Message-ID: <_nqHk.3198$U5.17923@newsb.telia.net> Michael Unger wrote: > On 2008-10-08 21:20, "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" wrote: > >> Perhaps, but even quite old, used printers might be an option for me. >> Also, "Will it work with VMS?" is a question the sales literature >> probably doesn't answer. > > If it says something like "printer drivers are available for Windows > 2000, XP and Vista as well as for Mac OS X 10.3 and up" you can conclude > that it most probably won't work with VMS very well ... > >> [...] > > Michael > Now, many printers that does have specific drivers for some other OS's *does* also run just OK with VMS. It depends on the printer itself... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:24:33 -0400 From: Paul Anderson Subject: Re: printer recommendation for hobbyist cluster Message-ID: In article <48ee10b7$0$12402$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei wrote: > But on VMS, what we can probably expect is a simple conversion from > the embedded simplified postscript into actual postscript code sent > to the printer. > > Perhaps Mr Anderson can chime in and explain what the plans would be. There are three possibilities, none of which has yet been chosen, nor have we committed to adding such capabilities. 1. Send PDF file unchanged to printers that can print PDF files directly. 2. Put a hook into DCPS such that customers could "roll their own" procedure with an application of their choosing (Ghostscript for example) to convert PDF to PostScript. 3. Include a full PDF-to-PostScript translator in DCPS. The best and most expensive choice is #3. Paul -- Paul Anderson OpenVMS Engineering Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: 9 Oct 2008 07:54:07 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Starting a CDE session over SSH? Message-ID: In article , sampsal@gmail.com writes: > X Toolkit Warning: Cannot convert string "-dt-interface user-medium-r- > normal-m*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*" to type FontStruct > X Toolkit Warning: Cannot convert string "-*-Menu-Medium-R-Normal-- > *-120-*-*-P-*-ISO8859-1" to type FontStruct > X Toolkit Warning: Cannot convert string "-dt-interface user-medium-r- > normal-m*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*" to type FontStruct > X Toolkit Warning: Cannot convert string "-*-Menu-Medium-R-Normal-- > *-120-*-*-P-*-ISO8859-1" to type FontStruct > > I've seen similar messages when running say the graphical MAIL client > so I assume they're not the problem. Your right. The above messages just say your X server doesn't have the specific font that the X client program asked for. Almost every time it will fall back to a useable font. Do you get any messages or log files that might better point out the problem? Have you tried using the older decw$session instead of CDE? ------------------------------ Date: 9 Oct 2008 09:24:42 +0200 From: Alexander Horn Subject: Re: VMS news reader Message-ID: <48edb1ba@news.arcor-ip.de> H Vlems wrote: > What newsreader would you recommend for Alpha/VMS V8.3? > Right now I use either Outlook Express or Google Groups. The first > refuses to update comp.sys.dec and the latter tends to add funny > strings, to the point that the message is unreadable. > Last week I received the KZPCM-DX controllers and added more storage > to my Digital Server 5305 (7 * 9 GB). > I read comp.os.vms, comp.sys.dec, alt.sys.pdp10 and pdp11. A retain > period of 3 months is sufficient I guess. > So what amount of storage would you recommend and what tool? I'm using TIN for VAX. Don't know, where an AXP-Image is available. FYI, TIN is a full-screen easy to use Usenet newsreader. Regards, -Vaxima -- Alexander Horn, Hostmaster (of staff) | OpenVMS (TM) rocks! 10 Bruckner, Sindelfingen 71065 Germany | http://www.marway.org/ eMail: vaxima@marway.org | Trouble with Windows? Reboot! vaxima@vaxima.net | Trouble with UNIX? Be root! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 10:00:12 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: VMS news reader Message-ID: In article , H Vlems writes: > My choice is rather based on familiarity with the VMS platform. I > found NEWSRDR on the freeware 6 cd so decided > to install that. However I can't seem to get it started though. > Where do I find MXRN? Don't give up on NEWSRDR so quickly! Have a look at the BookReader documentation. Decide whether you want to set it up system-wide (which I would recommend in your case) or in a non-priviledged account. Make sure the startup is executed (in the future, at boot time). It worked for me out of the box; whatever problem you have can't be that big of a deal. I especially like the ability to define keys, as in VMS MAIL. One can then make the interface even more similar to VMS MAIL. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.546 ************************