INFO-VAX Thu, 02 Oct 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 532 Contents: Re: Does anyone know of a "VESTING TOOL" for emulating/porting VMS Re: Login.template silly problem... Re: Login.template silly problem... MicroVAX model 3100 on 208V 3-phase power Re: mounting USB Sandisk Re: mounting USB Sandisk Re: mounting USB Sandisk Re: mounting USB Sandisk Re: mounting USB Sandisk Re: mounting USB Sandisk Re: mounting USB Sandisk Re: We only open our wallets when the price is dirt cheap. Re: We only open our wallets when the price is dirt cheap. Re: What is a process' current WSxxxxx quotas ? Re: What is a process' current WSxxxxx quotas ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 11:02:21 GMT From: Robert Boers Subject: Re: Does anyone know of a "VESTING TOOL" for emulating/porting VMS Message-ID: <48E4AA38.4000704@softresint.com> Rod wrote: >>> OMSAIS tool (Alpha to Integrity translator) >>> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/omsva/omsais.html > > FYI, HP-published version of V/A OMSAIS V2 as of Sep/2008 doesn't > support translating binaries generated from the OpenVMS/Alpha BASIC > compiler. > > $ aest hworld.exe /aud > %AEST-W-RTLNOTSUPP, programming language BASIC is not currently > supported AEST (V2.0, Bld DEV_0.8/Aug 30 2006) %AEST-W-TRANSWARN, > Translation completed with warnings -- review them before usi ng the > output image > > hworld.bas: > 1010 print "hello world" > 1020 end We built the OMSAIS tool on contract for HP, and budget constraints limited support for the number of languages we could add support for. But we can (and have) added functionality for specific problems. You find contact information on our website: www.stromasys.com We opened regional sales and support offices for North America (Raleigh, NC) and the Far East (HongKong). Regards, Robert Boers CEO Stromasys SA, Geneva, Switzerland (Formerly known as Software Resources International SA) We produce cross-platform virtualization products under the brand name CHARON. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 09:13:53 +0200 From: Joseph Huber Subject: Re: Login.template silly problem... Message-ID: David J Dachtera wrote: > Joseph Huber wrote: >> My definitions look like this: >> >> $ SHUTDOWN :== @CLUSTER$MANAGER:DETACH_SHUTDOWN >> $ REBOOT :== @CLUSTER$MANAGER:DETACH_REBOOT >> >> where the detach_*.com files start a detached process doing the >> shutdown/reboot, so they can be used without knowing how I'm logged in. > > I'd be interested in seeing your detached process proc.'s (.COMs). Here is detached_shutdown.com, detached_reboot is the same, just REBOOT at the end: $ IF F$MODE() .EQS. "BATCH" THEN GOTO start_detached $ depth = F$ENVIRONMENT("DEPTH") $ IF depth .EQ. 0 THEN GOTO run_detached $start_detached: $ this_node=F$EDIT(F$GETSYI("NODENAME"),"COLLAPSE") $ date=F$CVTIME("","comparison","DATE") $ RUN SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT.EXE - /INPUT='F$ENVIRONMENT("PROCEDURE")' - /OUTPUT='F$TRNLNM("SYS$LOGIN")'Shutdown_'this_node'_'date'.log - /ERROR='f$trnlnm("sys$login")'Shutdown_'this_node'_'date'.log - /PROC=SHUTDOWN - /DETACHED $ EXIT $run_detached: $ SHUTDOWN = "@SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN 0 SHUTDOWN YES YES LATER NO NONE" $ REBOOT = "@SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN 0 SHUTDOWN NO YES LATER YES REBOOT" $ REPL/ALL/BEL/URGENT "Detached SHUTDOWN of ''F$GETSYI("NODENAME")'. PID is ''F$GETJPI("","PID")'" $ SHUTDOWN DETACH_SHUTDOWN is just running loginout detached with the above proc as input. -- Joseph Huber, http://www.huber-joseph.de ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 05:18:38 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: Login.template silly problem... Message-ID: On Oct 1, 7:58=A0pm, B...@rabbit.turquoisewitch.com (Brad Hamilton) wrote: > In article , Bob Koehler wrote: > >In article , hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Ph= illip > >Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > >> In article , Joseph Huber > >> writes: > > >>> Anyway, defining these two commands should be removed from the templa= te: > >>> only in case of local attached terminal or LAT login they will work. > >>> Most people either login through remote (telnet,ssh) or in a X11 sess= ion: > >>> in those cases the shutdown or reboot will only start the shutdown an= d then > >>> leave the system in an inconsistent state. > > >> Actually, I have experience with a reboot via telnet. =A0It worked sev= eral > >> times. =A0Was I just lucky? > > > =A0 Older systems had those problems. =A0Currently telnet and X11 do no= t, > > =A0 but ssh may. =A0If you go back far enough, you could do a shutdown = from > > =A0 batch, but not from CTERM or RTPAD (DECnet terminal emulation). > > As of V8.3, SHUTDOWN from TELNET and SSH work fine; I haven't attempted i= t from > X11, but I will believe that it works. > > I don't know when the change took place, but once I was told of the chang= e, I > tried it , and it worked. > [...] I run TCPware v5.3-3 on VMS v6.1 and v6.2 and shutdown via its telnet works fine. AEF AEF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 08:16:16 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: MicroVAX model 3100 on 208V 3-phase power Message-ID: <4e1c5938-3bfd-4823-97ac-dacf7249f0e3@y79g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> Just in case anyone's interested, it works! My MicroVAX fleet has been running fine since 14-JUL-2008. No power supplies have been fried so far. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 08:52:11 -0400 From: "forrret.kenney@hp.com_nospam" Subject: Re: mounting USB Sandisk Message-ID: "Malcolm Dunnett" wrote in message news:hGYEk.11143$YN5.9036@newsfe03.iad... > forrret.kenney@hp.com_nospam wrote: > >>> I've also noticed that the system seems to stall for about 10 minutes >>> early in the EFI boot sequence when the USB disks are attached (the >>> system is a zx6000 with EFI 1.10). Yes, I know none of this is >>> supported. >>> >> Define early before you can invoke VMS_LOADER or after. If before I >> know what that is and it won't be fixed for zx6000, zx2000, or 2600. > > Before VMS_LOADER. It's right after the EFI banner shows up (before the > SCSI disks get discovered). That is the system firmware trying to figure out the disks it has a bunch of problems that have been fixed in later systems. Forrest ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 13:58:20 GMT From: "John E. Malmberg" Subject: Re: mounting USB Sandisk Message-ID: <0s4Fk.369282$yE1.58752@attbi_s21> forrret.kenney@hp.com_nospam wrote: > > Same comment for shadowing there are feature it needs that we just > don't provide and have no plans to provide. The goal for mass storage > was be able to install off of a USB DVD or using vMedia. Be able to > burn a USB DVD. That is anything else the works is outside of the > goals set for Mass Storage. I have made changes to DNDRIVER that > will keep it from crashing in the future. Since you are currently keeping the code common to Alpha, is there any chance we will be seeing USB 2 speeds there for mass storage on Alpha? Disk EAGLE$DNA4:, device type Maxtor OneTouch , is online, mounted, file-oriented device, shareable, available to cluster, error logging is enabled. Error count 0 Operations completed 320391 Owner process "" Owner UIC [VMS,SYSTEM] Owner process ID 00000000 Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W Reference count 1 Default buffer size 512 Total blocks 1465149167 Sectors per track 195 Total cylinders 38335 Tracks per cylinder 196 Logical Volume Size 1465149167 Expansion Size Limit 1465843712 Volume label "ANHKMORPOCK" Relative volume number 0 Cluster size 16 Transaction count 1 Free blocks 1461841952 Maximum files allowed 16711679 Extend quantity 5 Mount count 1 Mount status System Cache name "_EAGLE$DQB0:XQPCACHE" Extent cache size 64 Max blks in extent cache 146184195 File ID cache size 64 Blocks in extent cache 1568 Quota cache size 0 Maximum buffers in FCP cache 1730 Volume owner UIC [VMS,SYSTEM] Vol Prot S:RWCD,O:RWCD,G:RWCD,W:RWCD Volume Status: ODS-5, subject to mount verification, write-back caching enabled, hard links enabled. -John wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 10:28:08 -0400 From: "forrret.kenney@hp.com_nospam" Subject: Re: mounting USB Sandisk Message-ID: "John E. Malmberg" wrote in message news:0s4Fk.369282$yE1.58752@attbi_s21... > forrret.kenney@hp.com_nospam wrote: > Since you are currently keeping the code common to Alpha, is there any > chance we will be seeing USB 2 speeds there for mass storage on Alpha? > Short answer is NO. The longer answer is that only the ES47 and GS1280 systems have supported USB controllers. A large number of these shipped with Lucent USS344 cards which are low and full speed only. The reset shipped with a Philips chip that had and EHCI controllers. Getting it to work was proving to be a real issue and we really did not have time to qualify two EHCI controllers for V8.3-1h1. So we dropped high speed support for Alpha. Forrest ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 08:03:14 -0700 From: Malcolm Dunnett Subject: Re: mounting USB Sandisk Message-ID: <48e4e2b2$1@flight> forrret.kenney@hp.com_nospam wrote: >>> Define early before you can invoke VMS_LOADER or after. If before I >>> know what that is and it won't be fixed for zx6000, zx2000, or 2600. >> Before VMS_LOADER. It's right after the EFI banner shows up (before the >> SCSI disks get discovered). > > That is the system firmware trying to figure out the disks it has a > bunch of > problems that have been fixed in later systems. > I figured that was what was happening. Doesn't seem to be an issue other than slowing down the boot. If I need to boot quicker I can always unplug the drives until VMS boots and then plug them back in. I'll upgrade to an rx2660 once they start showing up cheap on eBay :-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 08:15:38 -0700 From: Malcolm Dunnett Subject: Re: mounting USB Sandisk Message-ID: <48e4e59a$1@flight> John E. Malmberg wrote: > forrret.kenney@hp.com_nospam wrote: >> >> Same comment for shadowing there are feature it needs that we just >> don't provide and have no plans to provide. The goal for mass storage >> was be able to install off of a USB DVD or using vMedia. Be able to >> burn a USB DVD. That is anything else the works is outside of the >> goals set for Mass Storage. I have made changes to DNDRIVER that >> will keep it from crashing in the future. > > Since you are currently keeping the code common to Alpha, is there any > chance we will be seeing USB 2 speeds there for mass storage on Alpha? > I certainly don't get full USB2 speeds with the HP Personal Media 500GB drives on a zx6000. I can read/write these drives at about 6MBytes/second (calculated by an image backup of 88Gbytes that took 4 hours). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 12:40:33 -0400 From: "forrret.kenney@hp.com_nospam" Subject: Re: mounting USB Sandisk Message-ID: > > I certainly don't get full USB2 speeds with the HP Personal Media 500GB > drives on a zx6000. I can read/write these drives at about 6MBytes/second > (calculated by an image backup of 88Gbytes that took 4 hours). That is about as good as it is going to get. The theoretical bus speed is 48Mbs a second. But the best you in theory can do allowing for USB protocol overhead is 80% of that. So that gets you down to about 30 Mbytes a second. Now there is the USB mass storage protocol which is by design not all that fast. It works like this. 1) Send a description of the I/O you want to do wait for it to complete 2) Pick up the status for that request 3) Do the I/O read or write etc. Wait for that complete 4) Pick up status 5) Read overall I/O status for the request 6) Pick up status of that read Now 1&2 , 3&4, and 5&6 are all one event as far as the driver is concerned but they are discrete events on the USB bus. There is an interrupt and a fork dispatch that has to happen for each and every one of the pairs of transactions. Also for lots of reasons every I/O has to have an extra buffer copy in the driver. We have seen better numbers but not with backup. There are tools the disk and I/O folks use that get much higher data rates than you can hope to get with BACKUP. Even with those 12Mb a sesond was about it for what we have today. Even in the PC world for USB 2.0 disks I see things peaking at 15 or so Mbytes a second. Forrest ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 19:12:26 +0200 From: Michael Unger Subject: Re: mounting USB Sandisk Message-ID: <6kkfbiF89p6oU1@mid.individual.net> On 2008-10-02 18:40, "forrret.kenney@hp.com_nospam" wrote: > [...] > > [...] Even in the PC world for USB 2.0 disks I see things peaking > at 15 or so Mbytes a second. That's consistant with my own observations (Win2k SP4, WinXP SP2) -- for USB hard disks as well as card readers. Michael -- Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 11:09:20 GMT From: Robert Boers Subject: Re: We only open our wallets when the price is dirt cheap. Message-ID: <48e4abf6$1@news.deckpoint.ch> Steven Underwood wrote: > "Neil Rieck" wrote in message=20 > news:9d3d0a4f-04f1-4e39-b969-eacae1ce5af5@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com.= =2E. > <<< We only open our wallets when the price is dirt cheap. >>> >=20 > It turns out that current out-of-pocket costs determined all of the > recent decisions made by employer. No consideration was given to other > metrics like TCO (Total Cost of Ownership). That is how we ended up > moving a mission-critical VAX/VMS application from =93a dual host > VAX-4300 cluster with 20 spindles on four DSSI busses=94 to =93a platfo= rm > consisting of two DL380 chassis and one full MSA chassis=94 even though= > we still have the source code. >=20 > The new OS is Windows Server 2003 and VAX emulation is done with > CHARON. The whole thing works so you cannot blame MS, or HP, or the > CHARON product, but only time will tell if this PC solution will > outlast the VAX it replaced. >=20 >=20 > I looked into Charon APR-2007 as an option to purchasing a refurb VAX=20 > 7000-630 to match our running system for DR. The quote for the Charon = > solution was ~10x the price for the VAX. It was so much higher, I coul= d=20 > not realistically even propose the solution. >=20 > As it turned out, the DR system was not purchased either as "we are=20 > going to start working of a replacement platform very shortly". Of=20 > course that has not happened either. We recently opened our own CHARON-VAX and CHARON-AXP sales offices in=20 the USA (Raleigh, NC) and Far East (HongKong) if you want to get a=20 'second opinion' :-) You can find our contact information on www.stromasys.com Regards, Robert Boers CEO Stromasys SA, Geneva, Switzerland (Formerly known as Software Resources International SA) We produce cross-platform virtualization products under the brand name=20 CHARON. ------------------------------ Date: 2 Oct 2008 12:26:57 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: We only open our wallets when the price is dirt cheap. Message-ID: <6kjt0hF89ek4U1@mid.individual.net> In article <48E41E4F.6C6FFFE3@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > Neil Rieck wrote: >> >> <<< We only open our wallets when the price is dirt cheap. >>> > > It may be more accurate to say that we only open our wallets when the > price is within our means. > > For most companies, that means price-competitive with Wintel. > > For many hobbyists, it comes down to VMS-capable gear or family needs.` Don't see how. There is always SIMH which cost nothing (assuming you already own a PC or something). And even real hardware. I have acquired a lot of VMS capable hardware for nothing. I doubt I have more than a couple thousand dollars, spread out over about 18 years, invested in all my PDP-11 and VAX/Alpha hardware. Probably the biggest single investment was renting a truck, buying gas and using a day to go pick up 5 PDP-11/44's, a VAX and a bunch of other cool stuff. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 05:35:57 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: What is a process' current WSxxxxx quotas ? Message-ID: <821ce78b-ea7c-4c16-9eeb-35420dbf58e7@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Sep 17, 2:16=A0am, David B Sneddon wrote: > How about SHOW WORKING_SET? > > Dave Try WORKING_SET.COM or WORKSET.COM, or something like that). This is an example in the Performance manual. Try it and let us know if this does what you want. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 11:59:40 -0400 From: "Jilly" Subject: Re: What is a process' current WSxxxxx quotas ? Message-ID: <48e4effd$0$19506$ec3e2dad@unlimited.usenetmonster.com> Here are the items that you want from the F$GETJPI lexical WSEXTENT - The largest that the Working Set List can become WSQUOTA - The WSL quota DFWSCNT - The default WSL size WSSIZE - The current size of the WSL PPGCNT - The number of pages of physical memory in the WSL that are private to this process GPGCNT - The number of pages of physical memory in the WSL that may be shared with other processes on the system. WSSIZE will begin at DFWSCNT and can grow up to WSEXTENT PPGCNT + GPGCNT will alwyas be equal or less than WSSIZE Remember that VMS is a demand paging system, processes are NEVER given memory to use, processes must request memory. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.532 ************************