INFO-VAX Wed, 16 Apr 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 212 Contents: Re: analyze/audit options to display password Re: F$PARSE SYNTAX_ONLY validating illegal version numbers Re: F$PARSE SYNTAX_ONLY validating illegal version numbers Re: Four CPU ES40 hanging Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available Mozilla (et al.) v. TCPIP FTP server Re: Mozilla (et al.) v. TCPIP FTP server Re: Mozilla (et al.) v. TCPIP FTP server Re: Mozilla (et al.) v. TCPIP FTP server Re: Mozilla (et al.) v. TCPIP FTP server Re: OT: Need HTML Help Re: OT: Need HTML Help Re: OT: Need HTML Help Re: OT: Need HTML Help RE: OT: Need HTML Help Re: OT: Need HTML Help Re: The Minimum You Need to Know About Service Oriented Architecture Re: The Minimum You Need to Know About Service Oriented Architecture Re: The Minimum You Need to Know About Service Oriented Architecture Re: The Minimum You Need to Know About Service Oriented Architecture Re: The Minimum You Need to Know About Service Oriented Architecture Re: The Minimum You Need to Know About Service Oriented Architecture Re: VMS advertising ! Re: VMS advertising ! Re: VMS advertising ! Re: VMS advertising ! Re: VMS advertising ! Re: VMS advertising ! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 15 Apr 2008 14:24:06 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: analyze/audit options to display password Message-ID: In article , "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > > Indeed! I recall having to fix a DCL procedure that broke because it > used "SE" for "SET". Easy enough to fix! Right? > > I figure that the lazy S.O.B. that wrote it cost the company about $30 > by saving that single keystroke. Back before MMS and CMS I worked a system which used a tree of DCL scripts in a tree of source files to do builds and CM. When we tried to rebuild under VMS 3.0, we ran smack into a ton of $ F/L ABLE.FOR $ F/L BAKER.FOR ... F was no longer unique. FORTRAN/L was no longer unique. I made sure every #$%^& one of them read FORTRAN/LIST. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Apr 2008 14:06:25 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: F$PARSE SYNTAX_ONLY validating illegal version numbers Message-ID: In article , AEF writes: > On Apr 15, 10:13 am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob > Koehler) wrote: >> In article <6ce3c1fe-d986-4d78-b4ff-6828fc123...@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, Rich Jordan writes: >> >> >> >> > It turns out I can enter any version number between -99999 (5 digits) >> > and 999999 (6 digits on the positive side) on a VAX/VMS V7.3 system, >> > -99999 through 99999 (5 digits on the positive side) on a Alpha VMS >> > V7.3-2 system and Alpha V8.3 system and F$PARSE will "validate" it. >> >> On a VAX under 6.2 I can go from -99999 to 99999. I wonder why the >> change without the correct limits. > > There's something wrong with your VAX: > OH! OOPS! It's not a VAX. It's an Alpha. I forgot which machine I was logged into. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 13:53:35 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: F$PARSE SYNTAX_ONLY validating illegal version numbers Message-ID: <43309991-b851-4c7a-8325-64cf28c39d2c@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com> On Apr 15, 3:06 pm, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article , AEF writes: > > > > > On Apr 15, 10:13 am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob > > Koehler) wrote: > >> In article <6ce3c1fe-d986-4d78-b4ff-6828fc123...@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, Rich Jordan writes: > > >> > It turns out I can enter any version number between -99999 (5 digits) > >> > and 999999 (6 digits on the positive side) on a VAX/VMS V7.3 system, > >> > -99999 through 99999 (5 digits on the positive side) on a Alpha VMS > >> > V7.3-2 system and Alpha V8.3 system and F$PARSE will "validate" it. > > >> On a VAX under 6.2 I can go from -99999 to 99999. I wonder why the > >> change without the correct limits. > > > There's something wrong with your VAX: > > OH! OOPS! It's not a VAX. It's an Alpha. I forgot which machine I > was logged into. Hah! The VAX can count higher than the Alpha. ;-) All right, maybe not as quickly. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:46:05 -0400 From: "Jilly" Subject: Re: Four CPU ES40 hanging Message-ID: <48055a20$0$2858$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com> "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote in message news:qc2dnYZEg7SYHGLanZ2dnUVZ_rfinZ2d@comcast.com... > Jilly wrote: >> >> "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote in message >> news:qc2dnYdEg7QA4mLanZ2dnUVZ_remnZ2d@comcast.com... >>> I hand the job to the dump weenies in Colorado whenever possible. When >>> you analyze three or four dumps per day, you either get good at it or >>> get another job! >>> >> >> Weenies-R-Us ;*) > > Do you still work for DEC/Compaq/HP/whatever it will be called next month? 29 years, 6 months and counting. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:57:58 GMT From: Antonio Carlini Subject: Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available Message-ID: > price from a local PC reseller. And though HP-UX is not downloadable, > it is legal to install and run it once you got hold of some media. HP were (for a while) happy to send HP-UX 11i media to anyone who filled in a form on the web. Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:19:10 GMT From: Antonio Carlini Subject: Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available Message-ID: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in news:HRntKEIRq4bn@eisner.encompasserve.org: > There is an unsupported interface provided by some non-DEC folks > for writing VMS device drivers in BLISS on VAX. But since those > outsiders provided the interface definitions back in about the VMS > 5.x timeframe you may find you have to update them yourself in > order to get it to work. On the other hand, when I had problems in > a device driver written in Macro-32 for a VAX I was able to send a > crash dump to customer support and they had no trouble helping me > track down the hardware problem that was causing it (even though > the hardware was under 3rd party maintenance). The VAX WANDD drivers and the PSI stuff were a mixture of some MACRO-32 and lots of BLISS. If you wanted to write a driver in FORTRAN you might have some issues, but BLISS worked without problems. > If you want to write a VMS device driver in PL/I, you go right > ahead. Happy fat Al. The first problem would be defining all those tables that are required. Assuming that PL/I can do that, then the rest is probably easy in comparison. Does PL/I have a way of specifying JSB interfaces? If not then you will (probably) need some MACRO-32 wrappers here and there. Whether this offends the purist in you or not depends on how pragmatic you are, I guess. Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:13:49 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Mozilla (et al.) v. TCPIP FTP server Message-ID: <08041518134972_2020CE0A@antinode.org> Being annoyed yet again by the problem, I filed a bug report for a problem in Mozilla (SWB, Firefox, ...) when dealing with a TCPIP FTP server: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=427887 It may not help much, but they appear to have a voting scheme for bugs, so it might make some difference if more than one registered user cast a vote for it. I've seen a couple of people try the test cases, but so far there's no official "Bug Activity". ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:50:19 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Mozilla (et al.) v. TCPIP FTP server Message-ID: <48053f7d$0$10564$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Steven M. Schweda wrote: > Being annoyed yet again by the problem, I filed a bug report for a > problem in Mozilla (SWB, Firefox, ...) when dealing with a TCPIP FTP > server: What exactly doesn't work ? Haven't had problems with it from netscape 4.7 on a MAC to Mozilla on VMS (although not sure I ever tried it), and on Forefox on MAC. ftp://user@chef.chocolate.com works fine for me. (TCIP services 5.6 on alpha) Note that I have the following logicals defined: "TCPIP$FTP_RAW_BINARY" = "TRUE" (LNM$JOB_8293AE00) (LNM$GROUP_000020) (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) "TCPIP$FTP_NO_VERSION" = "1" "TCPIP$FTP_WNDSIZ" = "4096" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:53:00 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Mozilla (et al.) v. TCPIP FTP server Message-ID: <08041520530015_2020CE0A@antinode.org> From: JF Mezei > > Being annoyed yet again by the problem, I filed a bug report for a > > problem in Mozilla (SWB, Firefox, ...) when dealing with a TCPIP FTP > > server: > > What exactly doesn't work ? Well, duh. Did you not follow the link to the bug report, or was it too difficult to understand, or what? > Haven't had problems with it from netscape 4.7 on a MAC to Mozilla on > VMS (although not sure I ever tried it), and on Forefox on MAC. Keep trying. (For a good time, try using it with extended file names on an ODS5 disk, too.) > [...] on a MAC [...] Is that anything like a Mac (Macintosh), or are you talking about a Media Access Control address (again)? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:11:43 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Mozilla (et al.) v. TCPIP FTP server Message-ID: <48056eb2$0$20563$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Steven M. Schweda wrote: > Well, duh. Did you not follow the link to the bug report, or was it > too difficult to understand, or what? Right hand just too tired to move the mouse over it and click on it. Sorry. > Keep trying. (For a good time, try using it with extended file names > on an ODS5 disk, too.) OK, got it. It works "fine" except it doesn't display names that have lowercase characters. What is interesting is that "ftp" on the mAc's command line does get to those names with both "dir" and "nlist". So it does appear to be something funky with Firefox/Mozilla. (And just noticed firefox doesn't have a "send file" action in the file menu when in FTP mode like good old netscape 4.7 had.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:32:56 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Mozilla (et al.) v. TCPIP FTP server Message-ID: <08041522325616_2020CE0A@antinode.org> From: JF Mezei > > Keep trying. (For a good time, try using it with extended file names > > on an ODS5 disk, too.) > > OK, got it. It works "fine" except it doesn't display names that have > lowercase characters. It's better than that. Try a name with funny characters, like, say, a multi-dot name ("a.b.c") or a name with a space ("a b.c"). > What is interesting is that "ftp" on the mAc's > command line does get to those names with both "dir" and "nlist". Try that with a funny-character name, too. The results can be amazing, at least until you realize how lame the FTP server can be. > So it > does appear to be something funky with Firefox/Mozilla. So perhaps my complaint to the Mozilla people wasn't entirely misdirected. Whew. When you get really bored, see what the Mac does with a file name like "a/b" (at least according to the Finder). It's not VMS, but it is interesting to see how a UNIX-like file system can be made to deal with a UNIX-hostile file name (but not all such names). SMS. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:55:27 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: OT: Need HTML Help Message-ID: <4805406F.23F81A77@spam.comcast.net> JF Mezei wrote: > > David J Dachtera wrote: > > Looking for someone who would be willing to correspond with me off-line > > about building web pages by hand (in a text editor). > > http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/ is the referenbce for real HTML. That site > also has stuff about XHTML. > > For style sheets, > http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS1 Thanx, JF! I think I can get what I'm looking for from that first link. I'm looking for a way to do something like this: +----------+-------------------------------+ | Button 1 | | +----------+ | | Button 2 | | +----------+ | | Button 3 | | +----------+ | | Button 4 | | +----------+ | | Button 5 | | +----------+-------------------------------+ My first thought was to use a table, but I didn't know how to force the asymmetry between the two columns: five rows in one column, one row in the second column. Let me see what I can figure out... David J Dachtera (formerly dba) DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:12:06 GMT From: "Jeffrey H. Coffield" Subject: Re: OT: Need HTML Help Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040105070602070306070105 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David J Dachtera wrote: > I'm looking for a way to do something like this: > +----------+-------------------------------+ > | Button 1 | | > +----------+ | > | Button 2 | | > +----------+ | > | Button 3 | | > +----------+ | > | Button 4 | | > +----------+ | > | Button 5 | | > +----------+-------------------------------+ > See attached: Jeff C. --------------040105070602070306070105 Content-Type: text/html; name="t.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="t.html"
 
--------------040105070602070306070105-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:32:01 -0400 From: "Ken Robinson" Subject: Re: OT: Need HTML Help Message-ID: <7dd80f60804151732q5a85e4c2ja13d277a5dd9ccad@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 7:55 PM, David J Dachtera wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: > > > > David J Dachtera wrote: > > > Looking for someone who would be willing to correspond with me off-line > > > about building web pages by hand (in a text editor). > > > > > http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/ is the referenbce for real HTML. That site > > also has stuff about XHTML. > > > > For style sheets, > > http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS1 > > Thanx, JF! > > I think I can get what I'm looking for from that first link. > > I'm looking for a way to do something like this: > +----------+-------------------------------+ > | Button 1 | | > +----------+ | > | Button 2 | | > +----------+ | > | Button 3 | | > +----------+ | > | Button 4 | | > +----------+ | > | Button 5 | | > +----------+-------------------------------+ > I would use CSS for this. See (do a show source to see how I did it.) Ken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:37:34 GMT From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) Subject: Re: OT: Need HTML Help Message-ID: <00A782A7.DA55F67A@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> In article <4805406F.23F81A77@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: >JF Mezei wrote: >> >> David J Dachtera wrote: >> > Looking for someone who would be willing to correspond with me off-line >> > about building web pages by hand (in a text editor). >> >> http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/ is the referenbce for real HTML. That site >> also has stuff about XHTML. >> >> For style sheets, >> http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS1 > >Thanx, JF! > >I think I can get what I'm looking for from that first link. > >I'm looking for a way to do something like this: >+----------+-------------------------------+ >| Button 1 | | >+----------+ | >| Button 2 | | >+----------+ | >| Button 3 | | >+----------+ | >| Button 4 | | >+----------+ | >| Button 5 | | >+----------+-------------------------------+ > >My first thought was to use a table, but I didn't know how to force the >asymmetry between the two columns: five rows in one column, one row in >the second column. > >Let me see what I can figure out... Check out "colspan" and "rowspan". -- ALan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:53:17 -0400 From: "Peter Weaver" Subject: RE: OT: Need HTML Help Message-ID: <006701c89f6d$06255260$2802a8c0@CHARONLAP> >... > I'm looking for a way to do something like this: > +----------+-------------------------------+ > | Button 1 | | > +----------+ | > | Button 2 | | > +----------+ | > | Button 3 | | > +----------+ | > | Button 4 | | > +----------+ | > | Button 5 | | > +----------+-------------------------------+ > > My first thought was to use a table, but I didn't know how to > force the asymmetry between the two columns: five rows in one > column, one row in the second column. >... That is basically what I do on my site; www.weaverconsulting.ca. I use a table, I am not sure if I am doing this the best way possible, but it seems to work with every browser I tested. (DUCK!!!) Behind the scene I use a couple of PHP routines to build the buttons on the left hand side and to end the table. If I decide to add some new pages I just have to create the new page, create two button GIF files and add the new a new line to the $links array. The new menu item will then be on every page in my site as soon as I save the .PHP file. $links = array( "index.html" => "Home", "charon-vax.html" => "CHARON-VAX - VAX Virtualization", "charon-axp.html" => "CHARON-AXP - Alpha Virtualization", "datastream.html" => "DataStream - Console Management System", "precisemail.html" => "PreciseMail - Spam Filtering Software", "reflection.html" => "Attachmate Reflection - Terminal Emulator", "system_man.html" => "System Management - Full time, part time, per call", "other.html" => "Other Services", "about.html" => "About Us", "contact.html" => "Contact Us" ); Peter Weaver www.weaverconsulting.ca www.openvmsvirtualization.com www.vaxvirtualization.com www.alphavirtualization.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:09:41 +1000 From: Jim Duff Subject: Re: OT: Need HTML Help Message-ID: <48057c05$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au> David J Dachtera wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: >> David J Dachtera wrote: >>> Looking for someone who would be willing to correspond with me off-line >>> about building web pages by hand (in a text editor). >> http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/ is the referenbce for real HTML. That site >> also has stuff about XHTML. >> >> For style sheets, >> http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS1 > > Thanx, JF! > > I think I can get what I'm looking for from that first link. > > [snip] > > My first thought was to use a table, but I didn't know how to force the > asymmetry between the two columns: five rows in one column, one row in > the second column. > > Let me see what I can figure out... A better place to learn (x)html and css (and a bunch of other stuff) is (no affiliation). Unless you are accomplished at reading w3c specs, you will find learning from w3schools far easier. As mentioned else-thread, using css instead of tables is the way to go. Tables certainly have their uses, but they should be restricted to table data, not used for general page layout. Whatever you do, you should ensure that your (x)html and css is valid. It's easy, will ensure your site is visible in all forms of user agents, will go a long way to making your pages accessible to people with disabilities, and will more than likely increase your exposure in google and other search engines. Automated validators are available at the following links: html: css: Jim. -- www.eight-cubed.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:05:40 -0700 (PDT) From: yyyc186 Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know About Service Oriented Architecture Message-ID: <5dac5ef1-9423-4c69-a0af-6b9fb41f0d6d@q27g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Apr 14, 9:34=A0am, GraphicDave wrote: > On Apr 13, 12:14=A0pm, yyyc186 wrote: > > > shipping on or about April 28, 2008. =A0It will be available at the > > usual places for this series and has a list price of $45.00 US. > > Links to the 'usual places' would be nice. Logic book https://icusc.com/NOV21_WEBSTORE.asp?search_fd2=3D*You%20Need%20to%20Know* Java Book https://icusc.com/NOV21_WEBSTORE.asp?search_fd2=3D*Java* Application Book https://icusc.com/NOV21_WEBSTORE.asp?search_fd2=3D*The%20Minimum* When David gets the database updated you can search for SOA or Service here: https://icusc.com/NOV21_WEBSTORE_search.asp? If you just can't wait for your friend David to get it listed, you can go here: http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Minimum-You-Need-to-Know-about-Soa/Roland-H= ughes/e/9780977086665/?itm=3D1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:20:33 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know About Service Oriented Architecture Message-ID: <48053841.457FC52C@spam.comcast.net> yyyc186 wrote: > > On Apr 14, 9:34 am, GraphicDave wrote: > > On Apr 13, 12:14 pm, yyyc186 wrote: > > > > > shipping on or about April 28, 2008. It will be available at the > > > usual places for this series and has a list price of $45.00 US. > > > > Links to the 'usual places' would be nice. > > Island Computers will be updating their product catalog this week. > > Barnes and Noble is accepting orders as well. > > Amazon.com will never be allowed to carry it under any circumstances. Seems a shame to "hide the lamp under a bushel" due to some "religious" thing. VMS needs all the exposure it can get, even from the "sinners". David J Dachtera (formerly dba) DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:33:23 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know About Service Oriented Architecture Message-ID: <48053b6d$0$12295$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> David J Dachtera wrote: > Seems a shame to "hide the lamp under a bushel" due to some "religious" > thing. VMS needs all the exposure it can get, even from the "sinners". You don't own VMS. HP doesn't even own VMS. It owns something called OpenVMS, and it is HP's job to give its own products all the exposure HO wants this product to get. It is pointless for the userbase to go against the owner's wishes to keep a product under the carpet. If HP wanted to market the product formerly known as VMS, it would do so without any problems. I can't paint your home while you're away because I think it would add a lot of value to your home. Bt if you ask me to paint it because you want to add value to yoru home, I can then help. HP is in no way asking the -product-formerly-known-as-VMS userbase to "paint the home". As far as they are concerned, we are a legacy customer base and the strategy is to slowly move those customers to core HP products over time. They are clearly not interested in marketing VMS. There comes a point where the family need to make a decision to let a loved one go once they realise that the doctors can't do anything else. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:29:39 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know About Service Oriented Architecture Message-ID: <4805567a$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> JF Mezei wrote: > David J Dachtera wrote: >> Seems a shame to "hide the lamp under a bushel" due to some "religious" >> thing. VMS needs all the exposure it can get, even from the "sinners". > > You don't own VMS. HP doesn't even own VMS. It owns something called > OpenVMS, and it is HP's job to give its own products all the exposure HO > wants this product to get. > > It is pointless for the userbase to go against the owner's wishes to > keep a product under the carpet. If HP wanted to market the product > formerly known as VMS, it would do so without any problems. I think they are talking about Amazon not HP ! Arne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:02:57 -0700 (PDT) From: yyyc186 Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know About Service Oriented Architecture Message-ID: On Apr 15, 6:33 pm, JF Mezei wrote: > HP is in no way asking the -product-formerly-known-as-VMS userbase to > "paint the home". As far as they are concerned, we are a legacy customer > base and the strategy is to slowly move those customers to core HP > products over time. They are clearly not interested in marketing VMS. While that may be their strategy, it isn't working at any client sites I visit. They are abandoning HP printers, hardware and software. The core business systems still running on the operating-system-formerly- known-as-VMS are having their service contracts moved to third party companies. Most are going to either Ubuntu or AIX when choosing a *nix platform. All of them realize moving from the operating-system- formerly-known-as-VMS to HP/UX is a severe downgrade. Kind of like moving from a Cadillac Escalade to a turbo Yugo. Yes it's cheaper, but your chance of surviving a crash moves toward zero as well. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:44:12 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know About Service Oriented Architecture Message-ID: <48057637$0$12292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> yyyc186 wrote: > While that may be their strategy, it isn't working at any client sites > I visit. They are abandoning HP printers, hardware and software. The > core business systems still running on the operating-system-formerly- > known-as-VMS are having their service contracts moved to third party > companies. Most are going to either Ubuntu or AIX when choosing a > *nix platform. Look at it from HP's point of view. If they murder VMS like they did Alpha, they know they will quickly lose the vast majority of VMS customers. If they keep VMS on life support (as they are doing now), The best case scenario is that they manage to retain nearly 100% of the VMS customers who will choose HP-UX of HP servers for Linux/Windows. Worse case scenario is that they will slowly lose the intalled base and only manage to retain a much smaller percentage of customers. But the longer VMS is kept on life support, the longer HP gets money from those customers. And the longer it has to convince them to move to other HP platforms. So keeping VMS on life support, even in its worse case scenario, is far better than murdering VMS like they did Alpha. If HP takes, as baseline, the prediction that they would lose 90% of the VMS installed base eventually, then any percentage point they can reduce that loss will end up being a big win for HP. So, by following HP's lead and NOT trying to help VMS, you not only make HP feel more comfortable with its plans (with no hobbyists meddling in them to try to make VMS more popular), but you also no longer try to stop the decline of VMS. If VMS is to go down, then the faster it goes down, the less revenus HP will get, and the less the percentage of VMS customers HP would be able to hold on to. AKA: by helping accelerate HP's goal of phasing out VMS, you are going to increase the pain HP will feel. Not that the loss will be significant enough to impact any ink profits. But Hurd might perhaps question Stallard/Livermore about whether their promises they could retain at least X% of the VMS installed base was sound, and at least perhaps ruin their carreers, that is what they deserve after all. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:56:38 -0700 (PDT) From: FrankS Subject: Re: VMS advertising ! Message-ID: <1b3e4957-31be-4955-b567-33dedf4aa236@b9g2000prh.googlegroups.com> On Apr 15, 11:24=A0am, AEF wrote: > So after a > great computer-aided search to be sure the new name offended no one > and met certain characteristics given by management (things like > starting with an E, and perhaps having two syllables, and what not), > Exxon somehow emerged. So I guess they didn't see a conflict with XON/XOFF? :-) ------------------------------ Date: 15 Apr 2008 14:20:25 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: VMS advertising ! Message-ID: In article <3bbc708b-1495-4732-9abf-a17ddb9b6940@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > > Yet more support for how cool VAX is as a name. VAX. And VAX/VMS. How > can you beat that for a name? VAX ... VAX/VMS ... So if HP wants to be successfull they need to bring out a line of IA-32-64 based processors with a VMS port and call them iVAX, or iVAX-11 or VAX-64 or some such. Would you want iVAX-VMS on your next computer? OBTW, they also need to make sure thier latest ink eaters are supported by HP DCPS for VAX-64/iVMS or whatever. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 13:52:13 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: VMS advertising ! Message-ID: <62696e5c-f1d0-4d4f-a5ee-7579e0cd1588@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On Apr 15, 3:20 pm, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article <3bbc708b-1495-4732-9abf-a17ddb9b6...@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > > > > > Yet more support for how cool VAX is as a name. VAX. And VAX/VMS. How > > can you beat that for a name? VAX ... VAX/VMS ... > > So if HP wants to be successfull they need to bring out a line of > IA-32-64 based processors with a VMS port and call them iVAX, or > iVAX-11 or VAX-64 or some such. > > Would you want iVAX-VMS on your next computer? Sure, better than Intel Inside or Optimized for Windows 95 or whatever the latest version of that is. > > OBTW, they also need to make sure thier latest ink eaters are > supported by HP DCPS for VAX-64/iVMS or whatever. Interesting. How about this: VAX: the Next Generation. Or Deep Space VAX. Or VAX Voyager. Or AEF-VAX!!! MAX_VAX? :-) AEF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 13:56:47 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: VMS advertising ! Message-ID: On Apr 15, 1:40 pm, c...@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook) wrote: > In article <70555e0d-bb59-40fb-b679-dd2f42c57...@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > > > > > On Apr 14, 5:15 pm, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- > > remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > >> In article , Bob Willard > > >> writes: > >> > > While it may or may no matter for VMS, at least one company protects > >> > > its old names: Exxon Mobil. Before the merger I distinctly remember > >> > > seeing tiny Esso labels on their gas pumps. (And post-merger we still > >> > > see separate Exxon and Mobil gas stations.) But I admit this may be > >> > > because it's still sold as Esso outside the U.S. But I'd think they'd > > >> Yes, it's still Esso in Germany. I don't know why. The oil companies > >> were among the first multinational corporations, and their names had > >> little "local colour" or any other reason to have different ones in > >> different countries. > > > There was no reason to change it in Europe as it was Esso throughout > > all of Europe. For reasons unknown to me, Esso had to sell as Humble > > in some parts of the U.S., and Enco in others. Esso could only be used > > in the remaining parts of the U.S. So they wanted one single name to > > advertise nationally under. And I think ENCO meant something bad in > > Japanese, and I don't know what was wrong with Humble). So after a > > great computer-aided search to be sure the new name offended no one > > and met certain characteristics given by management (things like > > starting with an E, and perhaps having two syllables, and what not), > > Exxon somehow emerged. It was primarily for the U.S. I guess they're > > happy with it being Esso almost everywhere else. Besides, you'd have > > to spend money to change all the signs and labels! Anyway, there's > > obviously more to the story. Maybe wikipedia has something about it, > > or even Exxon's Web site. But this should help answer your question. > > Seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_oil#Successor_companiesandhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esso > > Esso = Eastern States Standard Oil (aka Standard Oil of New Jersey) Really? I thought it was strictly a "pronuciation-spelled out" version of SO > > Standard Oil of New Jersey (aka Exxon) could not use Esso in states > where other Standard Oil companies held the trademark rights to > 'Standard'. Ah, yes, that rings some bells. Faint bells, albeit, but bells nonetheless. Thanks for filling in an important detail. > > Chevron (aka Standard Oil of California), Amoco (Standard Oil of > Indiana), Sohio (Standard Oil of Ohio), Mobil (Standard Oil of New > York), Conoco, Pennzoil and Marathon were all once part of Standard Oil. > > George Cook > WVNET AEF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 13:57:33 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: VMS advertising ! Message-ID: On Apr 15, 1:56 pm, FrankS wrote: > On Apr 15, 11:24 am, AEF wrote: > > > So after a > > great computer-aided search to be sure the new name offended no one > > and met certain characteristics given by management (things like > > starting with an E, and perhaps having two syllables, and what not), > > Exxon somehow emerged. > > So I guess they didn't see a conflict with XON/XOFF? > > :-) Pretty good! I can't believe I never noticed that all these years. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:34:52 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: VMS advertising ! Message-ID: <6983d748-ddcb-4daf-975f-b7a21be3e26a@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com> On Apr 15, 4:52 pm, AEF wrote: > On Apr 15, 3:20 pm, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob > > Koehler) wrote: > > In article <3bbc708b-1495-4732-9abf-a17ddb9b6...@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > > > > Yet more support for how cool VAX is as a name. VAX. And VAX/VMS. How > > > can you beat that for a name? VAX ... VAX/VMS ... > > > So if HP wants to be successfull they need to bring out a line of > > IA-32-64 based processors with a VMS port and call them iVAX, or > > iVAX-11 or VAX-64 or some such. > > > Would you want iVAX-VMS on your next computer? > > Sure, better than Intel Inside or Optimized for Windows 95 or whatever > the latest version of that is. I'm home now and I'm looking at my old PC and it says Designed for Microsoft(R) ------------ WindowsNT(R) Windows(R)98 I'll go with iVAX over that anyday. AEF > > > > > OBTW, they also need to make sure thier latest ink eaters are > > supported by HP DCPS for VAX-64/iVMS or whatever. > > Interesting. How about this: VAX: the Next Generation. Or Deep Space > VAX. Or VAX Voyager. Or AEF-VAX!!! MAX_VAX? :-) > > AEF ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.212 ************************