INFO-VAX Sat, 19 Jan 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 37 Contents: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? RE: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: CC in VMSmail Re: CC in VMSmail Re: CC in VMSmail How do I map an HP VMS keyboard within Apple X11 on Leopard? Re: How do I map an HP VMS keyboard within Apple X11 on Leopard? Re: How do I map an HP VMS keyboard within Apple X11 on Leopard? Re: How do I map an HP VMS keyboard within Apple X11 on Leopard? Re: Looking for tape copy program Re: Looking for tape copy program Re: Looking for tape copy program Re: Marketing of operating sytems Re: simh VAX 11/780 Re: simh VAX 11/780 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:45:04 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: In article <4786D5CC.94F055F1@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > > > > In article <4781869B.FA5DD8F1@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera > > writes: > > > > > There is a Free VMS project around. Haven't heard much about it lately, > > > though. Google this group for the Free VMS project. > > > > It's been around for years and what they have is very rudimentary. > > Remember the early days of Linux? What was the time span between Linus's first attempts and the first ready-to-use "commercial" Linux? Certainly MUCH less than the time between the beginning of Free VMS and now. And, of course, Unix is much easier to do than VMS. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 00:55:15 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply > [mailto:helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de] > Sent: January 18, 2008 2:45 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? > > In article <4786D5CC.94F055F1@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera > writes: > > > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > > > > > > In article <4781869B.FA5DD8F1@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera > > > writes: > > > > > > > There is a Free VMS project around. Haven't heard much about it > lately, > > > > though. Google this group for the Free VMS project. > > > > > > It's been around for years and what they have is very rudimentary. > > > > Remember the early days of Linux? > > What was the time span between Linus's first attempts and the first > ready-to-use "commercial" Linux? Imho, there are so many monthly security patches, I would say it is still in bake mode. Course, Windows is in the same boat, so I guess it depends on what you mean by ready-to-use. Certainly MUCH less than the time > between the beginning of Free VMS and now. And, of course, Unix is > much > easier to do than VMS. Now these's a statement guaranteed to kick off another OS religion war. :-) Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-254-8911 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:12:20 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <47915cdd$0$15760$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Main, Kerry wrote: > Imho, there are so many monthly security patches, I would say it is > still in bake mode. Course, Windows is in the same boat, so I guess > it depends on what you mean by ready-to-use. Remember my complaint about a major security vulnerability to the POP and IMAP servers on VMS ? Mr SMS has pointed to a web site. I placed a description of the problem there some time ago. Still no response. So the security vulnerability continues unpatched on VMS. The "movement" on Linux is an indication of active development and a very involved community that finds and fixes bugs. Lack of patches on VMS is starting to look more and more like lack of resources instead of perfect software. On the Titanic, there came a time when the musisians, no matter how devoted they had been to keep the passengers comfortable/calm, had to stop playing and fight for their own life. There are still a lot of very valuable people left in the VMS group and it appears HP doesn't really value them much and they might do better to jump ship where the skies are brighter. Imagine if Sue were at Apple and took care of us ? She'd be overwhelmed with all the positive news and the lack of doom and gloom she has to fight at VMS. She's be an incredible asset to Apple to build the enterprise side of the community. (Perhaps we should start a petition to get Apple to hire Sue :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 20:00:50 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: CC in VMSmail Message-ID: In article <478E7114.60406@triumf.ca>, Fred Bach writes: > Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER wrote: > > I'd like to ask what people (means you) usually do to get a CC address > > into a mail send by a (batch) procedure. > What I do is BCC everything with my "Mail_Individually.com" DCL > command procedure. NO cc's and no self. It was written for interactive > usage, but I don't see why it shouldn't work in batch too. I may often > have it running in its own Decterm window while I work in others. Never > tried it in batch, though. Presumably, it will send a message to several people (which one can do with a distribution list). However, will these people see the other people in the CC list? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:22:22 -0800 From: Fred Bach Subject: Re: CC in VMSmail Message-ID: Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > In article <478E7114.60406@triumf.ca>, Fred Bach > writes: > >> Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER wrote: >>> I'd like to ask what people (means you) usually do to get a CC address >>> into a mail send by a (batch) procedure. > >> What I do is BCC everything with my "Mail_Individually.com" DCL >> command procedure. NO cc's and no self. It was written for interactive >> usage, but I don't see why it shouldn't work in batch too. I may often >> have it running in its own Decterm window while I work in others. Never >> tried it in batch, though. > > Presumably, it will send a message to several people (which one can do > with a distribution list). However, will these people see the other > people in the CC list? > Definitely NOT. The whole idea behind Mail_Individually.com was to mimic the Bcc idea since that was not offered by VMSMail. The idea was NOT to allow any of the recipients to see other addresses to which the message was being sent. From time to time, where it's harmless, I have been known to post the list of addresses to a local web site if I wanted people to be able to look at the list. ...fwb. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 03:03:25 GMT From: Michael Austin Subject: Re: CC in VMSmail Message-ID: <1Mdkj.33796$4V6.10753@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net> Fred Bach wrote: > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: >> In article <478E7114.60406@triumf.ca>, Fred Bach >> writes: >>> Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER wrote: >>>> I'd like to ask what people (means you) usually do to get a CC address >>>> into a mail send by a (batch) procedure. >> >>> What I do is BCC everything with my "Mail_Individually.com" DCL >>> command procedure. NO cc's and no self. It was written for >>> interactive >>> usage, but I don't see why it shouldn't work in batch too. I may >>> often >>> have it running in its own Decterm window while I work in >>> others. Never >>> tried it in batch, though. >> >> Presumably, it will send a message to several people (which one can do >> with a distribution list). However, will these people see the other >> people in the CC list? >> > > Definitely NOT. The whole idea behind Mail_Individually.com was > to mimic the Bcc idea since that was not offered by VMSMail. The > idea was NOT to allow any of the recipients to see other addresses > to which the message was being sent. > > From time to time, where it's harmless, I have been known to post > the list of addresses to a local web site if I wanted people to > be able to look at the list. > > ...fwb. I also used something similar in batch processing because on some earlier versions (5-6 timeframe) if VMSmail could not reach one person on the distro (ie remote email) then the email to the rest of the list would fail as well and the critical notification was not discovered until the next business day - or when the Sys Admin got paged that something was down... This was a long time ago in a cluster and GALAXY far far away... In today's email systems - if there is no TO: and only a BCC:, it is flagged as spam and in some cases, out-right rejected. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:23:25 -0800 From: Fred Bach Subject: How do I map an HP VMS keyboard within Apple X11 on Leopard? Message-ID: A friend asked me to post this problem: > Someone loaned me a VT220 keyboard. It does function on my Mac. However, > key mapping is another thing altogether. There are a couple of freeware > applications for remapping a keyboard, but, like most weighty decisions > in life, how and when to do this depends. For native Mac applications I > want Mac functionality (achievable by swapping just a couple of keys). > But for DECwindows I want VT220 mapping. That means the mapping has to > be a function of Apple X11, and not system-wide. So... > > How can I map an HP VMS keyboard within Apple X11 on Leopard? fred bach music at triumf. dot c a ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 23:32:59 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: How do I map an HP VMS keyboard within Apple X11 on Leopard? Message-ID: In article , Fred Bach writes: > > >A friend asked me to post this problem: > >> Someone loaned me a VT220 keyboard. It does function on my Mac. However, >> key mapping is another thing altogether. There are a couple of freeware >> applications for remapping a keyboard, but, like most weighty decisions >> in life, how and when to do this depends. For native Mac applications I >> want Mac functionality (achievable by swapping just a couple of keys). >> But for DECwindows I want VT220 mapping. That means the mapping has to >> be a function of Apple X11, and not system-wide. So... >> >> How can I map an HP VMS keyboard within Apple X11 on Leopard? > > fred bach music at triumf. dot c a There are some keycode that won't even report. If you friend runs xev, he/she can see the key codes that are emitted for the keys that are re- cognizsed. Then, use xmodmap to map the keys. Somebody here about a year ago reported working on a keyboard driver. I don't think they've gotten beyond pie-in-the-sky. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 18:35:00 -0800 (PST) From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: How do I map an HP VMS keyboard within Apple X11 on Leopard? Message-ID: On Jan 18, 6:32 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > Somebody here about a year ago reported working on a keyboard driver. > I don't think they've gotten beyond pie-in-the-sky. > I talked with someone, probably that person, about 6-9 months ago and at the time they had decided to wait for Leopard in th hopes the keyboard driver would be more versatile. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 23:16:42 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: How do I map an HP VMS keyboard within Apple X11 on Leopard? Message-ID: <47917a9d$0$4288$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Not quite an answer to this, but slighly related. Back on Classic, you could use RESEDIT to create a keyboard map for characters. With this, I was able to get the DEC French canadian keyboard layout maopped to my apple keyboard. (there are a number of differences). When I moved to Tiger, I was able to use those resource files and place them in the new system folder (I think) and they got installed/converted properly. Those mappings however affect only characters. They don't affect the definition of delete vs backspace, and the function keys above the arrow keys (where the real differences are since the apple lacks a "select" and "find" keys.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:04:27 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: Looking for tape copy program Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0068C162852573D4_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" "Peter Weaver" wrote on 01/18/2008 12:26:26 PM: > > Attempts to compile this yield errors: > > > > %AMAC-E-DATINCODE, (1) data in code stream > >... > > Yup, on an Alpha or IA64 but not on a VAX. Add > .PSECT NOEXE,WRT,PAGE > just before the .ENTRY and it will compile. This works. Compiling the original on a VAX also works. I don't have IA64. > > Peter Weaver > www.weaverconsulting.ca > CHARON-VAX CHARON-AXP DataStream Reflection PreciseMail HP Commercial > Hardware > --=_alternative 0068C162852573D4_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"



"Peter Weaver" <info-vax@weaverconsulting.ca> wrote on 01/18/2008 12:26:26 PM:

> > Attempts to compile this yield errors:
> >
> > %AMAC-E-DATINCODE, (1) data in code stream
> >...
>
> Yup, on an Alpha or IA64 but not on a VAX. Add
>         .PSECT  NOEXE,WRT,PAGE
> just before the .ENTRY and it will compile.


This works.
Compiling the original on a VAX also works.
I don't have IA64.

>
> Peter Weaver
> www.weaverconsulting.ca
> CHARON-VAX  CHARON-AXP DataStream Reflection PreciseMail HP Commercial
> Hardware
>
--=_alternative 0068C162852573D4_=-- ------------------------------ Date: 18 Jan 2008 20:24:43 +0100 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: Looking for tape copy program Message-ID: <47910b0b$1@news.langstoeger.at> In article <67bfb8f9-ea7f-4f5e-9312-265e78aa99e4@i3g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, "tomarsin2015@comcast.net" writes: >A few years back, I had a tape program that would allow me to do a >tape to tape copy. The program would allow me to copy from 1 format to >another (ie dlt to dat etc). I searched thru the freeware software >archives and thru some of the sig tapes libraries, but cannot find the >program. Does anybody recall the program? Do you perhaps mean the HP Save Set Manager for OpenVMS? http://www.compaq.com/info/SP6264/SP6264PF.PDF But it's not freeware... -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:16:15 -0800 (PST) From: "tomarsin2015@comcast.net" Subject: Re: Looking for tape copy program Message-ID: <5ee933a8-c67f-42cd-823c-7033ddd32ded@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com> Hello Tks for the replies. The program was tapecopy. Tks for the help. phil ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:17:54 -0600 From: pechter@pcp09822625pcs.eatntn01.nj.comcast.net (Bill Pechter) Subject: Re: Marketing of operating sytems Message-ID: In article <5v404aF1j8mv0U1@mid.individual.net>, Bill Gunshannon wrote: >In article <478CC911.9070701@comcast.net>, > "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >> DaveG wrote: >>> On Jan 15, 2:26 am, JF Mezei wrote: >>> >>>>Apple is holding a little shingding in San Francisco this week. Steve >>>>Job's keynote address should be available for viewing later this >>>>afternoon athttp://www.apple.com. He is bound to make a great sales >>>>pitch for our favourite operating system (OS-X :-) >>>> >>>>Wasn't there a time when DECUS events were larger than Macworld ? >>>> >>>>Imagine if VMS had been allowed to be marketed, and Sue would have made >>>>similar keynote adresses in front of thousands with worldwide media >>>>reporting on it ? >>> >>> >>> I don't believe DECUS attendance approached the current numbers of >>> Macworld ( ~40K). At best, ~10K and that's a guess. >>> >>> And yes it would be nice to actively market and keynote VMS in front >>> of town size audiences. >>> >>> >> >> I think 10K would be a little too generous, at least for the era when I >> was able to attend DECUS Symposia (~1986~1992). I think 7K was as big >> as they got. > >In those days the target audience was much smaller as everyone wasn't >a computer professional. :-) > >I do remember giving a presentation at a Sytek Users Group Conference >once where my audience numbered in the thousands (or so I was told by >friends who were in the crowd!) I couldn't really tell as I could not >see the audience from the stage because of the footlights. At the time >I found that a relief as I had never spoken in front of so large a >group and I was quite nervous. > Oh God... Bill, Not LocalNet/20... was it? (Flashback to Cecom replacing Z80's in LocalNet boxes hooked to serial ports on IBM PC Clones at Fort Monmouth in 87 or so...). Kind of more like a Micom Data Switch or terminal server than a network. >We did get good trade press covrerage in those days, however. > >bill > > >-- >Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves >bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. >University of Scranton | >Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include Bill -- -- Be comforted that in the face of all erridity and disallusionment, and despite the changing fortunes of time, there is always a big future in computer maintainance. --Deteriorata (pechter-at-gmail-dot-com) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 22:37:55 +0100 From: "Ferry Bolhar" Subject: Re: simh VAX 11/780 Message-ID: While answering Bob questions, my question still remains unanswered - does the VAX 11/780 simh provide support for the MA780? Greetings, Ferry -- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 04:35:11 +0100 From: "Martin Vorlaender" Subject: Re: simh VAX 11/780 Message-ID: Ferry, > While answering Bob questions, my question still remains unanswered - > does the VAX 11/780 simh provide support for the MA780? The documenation at http://simh.trailing-edge.com/pdf/vax780_doc.pdf says the VAX 11/780 SIMH emulates "MS780C with 4MB memory each, or MS780E with 8MB-64MB each". This sounds like it doen't support MA780. Disclaimer: The VAX 11/780 predates my first contact with VMS and VAXen. A resource for a definitive answer would be the SIMH mailing list, see http://simh.trailing-edge.com/help.html . cu, Martin -- One OS to rule them all | Martin Vorlaender | OpenVMS rules! One OS to find them | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de One OS to bring them all | http://vms.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin.vorlaender@t-online.de ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.037 ************************