INFO-VAX Wed, 19 Dec 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 693 Contents: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Re: looking for blue |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| logo New Jobs Available For 2008 quick question Re: quick question Re: Singapore Server Rescue ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 21:23:17 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: <9TW9j.1$Ks5.0@newsfe11.lga> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > > >In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >> >> And now a couple boxes with the "intel inside" warning labels too! >> > > I got'a get me one o' them someday. When I'm in the mood for pain. > IIRC one was a doorstop for a while, did you ever get it running? It's a very expensive LED blinky, thank you. Its memory came in handy though. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:57:06 -0800 (PST) From: johnwallace4@gmail.com Subject: Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Message-ID: On Dec 18, 1:25 pm, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article , > johnwalla...@gmail.com writes: > > > > > On Dec 18, 9:48 am, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > >> On Mon, Dec 17, 2007 at 10:25:20PM +0000, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >> > In article , > >> > koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > >> > > In article <5snsucF1a8as...@mid.individual.net>, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > >> > >> If I have all the necessary hardware info, how hard is it write a device > >> > >> driver for VMS? > > >> > > Since you said Qbus, italmost must be a VAX, so you'll be working in > >> > > Macro-32. If you haven't done that for a while then practice with > >> > > some ordinary little user mode applications first, you don't want > >> > > to be wondering about the instruction set in the middle of driver > >> > > writing. > > >> > Well, that kills that. I know where my strengths and weaknesses are. > >> > Files-11 is precisely what I was looking at so I think this is beyond > >> > my abilities. Hmmm.... Wonder if I can write something for BSD that > >> > will be able to read Files-11. Probably easier. > > >> Ryan Gibson, now a final year PhD with Electonic and Electical Engng at > >> Bristol Uni wrote a linux kernel module supporting ODS-2 (or was is > >> it Files-11) based on K. McCoy's book. Aparrently it wasn't too hard. > > >> Gibson, Ryan. Open VMS file system support for GNU/Linux / Ryan Gibson. > >> 2003. Shelfmark Project U2003 GIB, Queens-Building > > >> You might be able to get his report via Inter-Library Loan (hard copy) > >> or from him directly. He might be interested in sharing the code. > > >> -- > >> Anton Shterenlikht > >> Room 2.6, Queen's Building > >> Mech Eng Dept > >> Bristol University > >> University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK > >> Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 > >> Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 > > > Basic Files11 support might not be too bad, especially if constrained > > to ODS1 and/or just a utility in the style of VMS EXCHANGE rather than > > a fully integrated file system component. > > > ODS2 and full integration into a file system would be more of a > > challenge, especially as the file contents have a tendency to be > > useless in many cases unless the relevant bits of RMS are also > > implemented/emulated. > > > Bill hasn't told us much about what he's actually trying to do. > > Gee, I thought it was rather obvious. :-) I am trying to come up > with a way to read RX disks containing a Files-11 filesystem. While > I have some ways of doing it now, I was looking for other options. > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > b...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include OK, let's take this in the context of other recent posts... Is the host OS for this RX drive to be VMS (in which case the challenges are in writing the driver and the undocumented driver-XQP interface, but you get RMS for free), or is the host to be BSD (in which case the driver may be easier but you may have to roll your own bits of RMS, *if* RMS is in your picture). If the host is to be VMS, and if I am understanding you correctly, and if the source of the RX01 is using RMS, and if you're confident you can get the RX01 driver done... then you might consider avoiding the undocumented driver-XQP interface by writing a noddy data-transfer app that reads the blocks of a file off a foreign-mounted RX01 and puts the same block-for-block data in a file on a real ODS2 drive. That way, if you do need RMS you get it to do its stuff "for free" when you access the "copied" file. If the RX01s are PDP11 RX01s (with ODS1 and without RMS), life is simpler but you may still want to look at the data-transfer app approach rather than the filesystem integration approach. If you're only *reading* from (not writing to) the floppy, the app hopefully isn't too difficult (and the risks are small) even if you're starting from raw block IO, under either VMS or BSD. Read the right VMS I/O manuals (or maybe even just the Wikipedia entry for Files-11?) and you're nearly ready to code something up in your favourite HLL; if there's really no RMS in the picture, it ought to be relatively simple under BSD, though if the files are plain text you may have to do some mangling of carriage control, depending on the original source and the ultimate destination, and if the files are RMS data files, or WPS files, or files with Fortran carriage control, or... well let's just say that in that case the fun has hardly started. In fact the ODS-2 file reader from the HP freeware site, mentioned just now by Paul Sture as being known to work on OS-X, probably isn't far off working on BSD, for basic text-oriented stuff. If the name of the game is data transfer rather than just an interesting speculative reuse of hardware you already have, you *might* want to think about a radically different approach - get access to a box which can read the old media and filesystem native, and use a network (and/or a Kermit or similar) to transfer the data to a more modern box for further manipulation. Or maybe not. hth John ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:09:55 +0100 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Message-ID: In article <5sobagF1a797nU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > Well, that kills that. I know where my strengths and weaknesses are. > Files-11 is precisely what I was looking at so I think this is beyond > my abilities. Hmmm.... Wonder if I can write something for BSD that > will be able to read Files-11. Probably easier. How about this? "ODS2, MISCELLANEOUS, Portable ODS-2 file structure reader ODS2 V1.3 -- Read VMS ODS-2 disks on VMS, Windows, and UNIX Written by Paul Nankervis, and modified by Hunter Goatley" And from the readmes in it: "What can it do? Basically ODS2 provides cut down DIRECTORY, COPY and SEARCH commands for VMS volumes on non-VMS systems. These can be used to find out what is on a VMS volume, and copy files onto the local file sytem. What file types? Basically ODS2 can only deal with sequential files. I do not have information on how indexed file types are constructed, and relative files are of limited interest." It compiles on OSX, though insists that it reads a CD, and I never got that bit working. -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:54:38 GMT From: Antonio Carlini Subject: Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Message-ID: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in news:5snma7F1a6a99U1 @mid.individual.net: > If I pull out an old MVII that has some relatively old version of VMS on > it and stick an RXV11 in it, will it work? Will it recognize it? Will > it actually read disks in it? I'm joining the party late, but a quick scan of the VMS V5.0 SPD shows support for the RX211/RX02, OK so that's UNIBUS and VAX-11/7xx class machines, but there is also support for RX50 and RX33 floppies. This is the supported list, so there's at least a chance it will work out-of-the-box (despite not being formally supported). If it doesn't work right off the bat, then the RXV211 driver will be on the source listings CD and turning that into a QBUS driver for the RXV11 will not be rocket science. (He says, never having had to do that :-)) Antonio arcarlini@iee.org ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 2007 21:18:27 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Message-ID: <5sqrp3F1acfmcU1@mid.individual.net> In article , "P. Sture" writes: > In article <5sobagF1a797nU2@mid.individual.net>, > billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > >> Well, that kills that. I know where my strengths and weaknesses are. >> Files-11 is precisely what I was looking at so I think this is beyond >> my abilities. Hmmm.... Wonder if I can write something for BSD that >> will be able to read Files-11. Probably easier. > > How about this? > > > > "ODS2, MISCELLANEOUS, Portable ODS-2 file structure reader > > ODS2 V1.3 -- Read VMS ODS-2 disks on VMS, Windows, and UNIX > Written by Paul Nankervis, and modified by Hunter Goatley" > > And from the readmes in it: > > "What can it do? > Basically ODS2 provides cut down DIRECTORY, COPY and > SEARCH commands for VMS volumes on non-VMS systems. These > can be used to find out what is on a VMS volume, and copy > files onto the local file sytem. > > What file types? > Basically ODS2 can only deal with sequential files. I do not > have information on how indexed file types are constructed, > and relative files are of limited interest." Sounds interesting. I'll have a look and see if it looks like it will compile and run under BSD 2.11 as I know the controller works on a real PDP-11. :-) > > It compiles and works on OSX. To some of us that is not necessarily a plus or even something worth bragging about. :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 2007 19:11:31 -0500 From: Rich Alderson Subject: Re: Let's get back to some VMS tech talk!! Message-ID: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > In article , > "P. Sture" writes: >> It compiles and works on OSX. > To some of us that is not necessarily a plus or even something worth > bragging about. :-) It indicates some level of BSD compatibility, which should be taken as encouragement rather than as an opportunity for an unnecessary slam. -- Rich Alderson "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime." news@alderson.users.panix.com --Death, of the Endless ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 19:55:17 +0100 From: Michael Unger Subject: Re: looking for blue |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| logo Message-ID: <5sqk27F1aavi2U1@mid.individual.net> On 2007-12-17 17:36, "Bob Kaplow" wrote: > Thanks to everyone that responded with links. I think I've found the mother > lode, thanks to Paul Anderson and Ned Batchelder. This is now probably the > ultimate logo reference: > > http://nedbatchelder.com/blog/20071216T110049.html > > [...] > > Alas, one uses the Palmer era red logo (a remnant of all the red ink from > his era), [...] Does anyone happen to know the colours (CMYK values preferred very much) of the "blue" and/or "red" variants? Michael -- Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:48:09 -0800 (PST) From: t7dgbnak Subject: New Jobs Available For 2008 Message-ID: Here is a good job search site at http://www.2getemployment.com that featured thousands of new jobs available across the country.It really helped me a lot. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 21:48:31 -0800 (PST) From: Sue Subject: quick question Message-ID: <1ea5eeb6-de28-46df-911e-4357ee07f8fb@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> Can somone tell me what M15 is and what it has to do with VMS. I am sorry I just do not know. sue ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 00:02:31 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: quick question Message-ID: <07121900023117_202647DE@antinode.org> From: Sue > Can somone tell me what M15 is and what it has to do with VMS. It's MI5, not M15. Yes. Nothing. > I am sorry I just do not know. http://www.mi5.gov.uk/ When you see junk like this posted to multiple groups ("X-Newsgroups: sci.nonlinear,soc.genealogy.britain,aus.ads.forsale.computers.new, brasil.noticias,comp.os.vms"), it's safe to assume that it's junk. > X-Complaints-To: abuse@newsdemon.com From: "Newsdemon Abuse" > We have received a large number of complaints regarding one of our > former customers flooding various newsgroups with "MI5 Persecution" > posts. We have removed this customer from our active database and he > will no longer be allowed to use our servers. > > We appreciate your role in helping us to locate this user. But I doubt that it'll stop any time soon. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 00:03:48 GMT From: Rob Brown Subject: Re: Singapore Server Rescue Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Dec 2007, Michael Kraemer wrote: > JF Mezei schrieb: > >> I should remind you that the PDP-11 was probably superior to the >> 8086 at the time. ... > the big difference was that the 8086 was a single chip solution ... > OTOH, the PDP-11 I remember is a bulky device, .... If DEC had > squeezed it into a single chip .... The PDP-11 was on a single chip by about '82-83-84 or so. -- Rob Brown b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m G. Michaels Consulting Ltd. (780)438-9343 (voice) Edmonton (780)437-3367 (FAX) http://gmcl.com/ ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.693 ************************