INFO-VAX Sun, 16 Dec 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 688 Contents: Re: "snapshot" backup and HBVS Re: "snapshot" backup and HBVS RE: "snapshot" backup and HBVS MI5-Persecution: No Justice for the Victims of MI5 (28989) Running 5.5-2 just because you think you can (was:Re: VMS 5.5-2 patch question) VMS 5.5-2 patch question Re: VMS 5.5-2 patch question Re: VMS 5.5-2 patch question Re: VMS 5.5-2 patch question Re: VMS 5.5-2 patch question Re: VMS 5.5-2 patch question Re: VMS 5.5-2 patch question Re: VMS 5.5-2 patch question Re: VMS 5.5-2 patch question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 10:56:39 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: "snapshot" backup and HBVS Message-ID: In article , moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes: > helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > > > However, even if the contents are > >the same, if I split a mirror set and then mount it as a shadow set, as > >far as VMS is concerned this is a new shadow set---VMS doesn't know that > >the contents are identical. > > Sure it does. When you issue a $ MOUNT, MOUNT looks at the SCB and sees > the disk is a shadowset and acts appropiately. Of course. However, if the two disks had been part of a mirror set (i.e. controller-level shadowing), then, as far as VMS is concerned, they have nothing to do with a HBVS shadow set until they are mounted. > If you issue a > $ MOUNT /SHADOW=(member1,member2), MOUNT sees the two members are > consistent (since the SCBs are identical and that of a shadowset member, > or had better be!) so it knows it can form a shadowset with no copy > required, as long as they were full members when removed from the original > shadowset. If they are full members when removed, THEN set up as part of a controller-based mirror set, THEN remounted as a shadow set, will that still work? > However the shadowset members listed in the SCB will *not* > match the names of the former RAID set members so you have to be careful > not to specify parameters such as /INCLUDE. Yes, that part is clear. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 13:17:13 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: "snapshot" backup and HBVS Message-ID: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: >In article , moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com >(Michael Moroney) writes: >> helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: >> >> > However, even if the contents are >> >the same, if I split a mirror set and then mount it as a shadow set, as >> >far as VMS is concerned this is a new shadow set---VMS doesn't know that >> >the contents are identical. >> >> Sure it does. When you issue a $ MOUNT, MOUNT looks at the SCB and sees >> the disk is a shadowset and acts appropiately. >Of course. However, if the two disks had been part of a mirror set >(i.e. controller-level shadowing), then, as far as VMS is concerned, >they have nothing to do with a HBVS shadow set until they are mounted. Why do you say that? If the mirror set was part of a shadowset, the SCBs of the members will be that of a shadowset member. If the mirror FW does what it is supposed to, the entire drives (specifically the SCBs) will be identical. Disks with identical SCBs will be considered valid shadowset members. The RAID metadata is not relevant. If it's on disk blocks, it'll be on blocks not even visible to VMS. >> If you issue a >> $ MOUNT /SHADOW=(member1,member2), MOUNT sees the two members are >> consistent (since the SCBs are identical and that of a shadowset member, >> or had better be!) so it knows it can form a shadowset with no copy >> required, as long as they were full members when removed from the original >> shadowset. >If they are full members when removed, THEN set up as part of a >controller-based mirror set, THEN remounted as a shadow set, will that >still work? Since the RAID firmware will certainly copy one disk to the other, I see no purpose of the first step. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:57:01 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: "snapshot" backup and HBVS Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply > [mailto:helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de] > Sent: December 16, 2007 5:57 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: "snapshot" backup and HBVS > > In article , > moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com > (Michael Moroney) writes: > > > helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to > reply) writes: > > > > > However, even if the contents are > > >the same, if I split a mirror set and then mount it as a shadow set, > as > > >far as VMS is concerned this is a new shadow set---VMS doesn't know > that > > >the contents are identical. > > > > Sure it does. When you issue a $ MOUNT, MOUNT looks at the SCB and > sees > > the disk is a shadowset and acts appropiately. > > Of course. However, if the two disks had been part of a mirror set > (i.e. controller-level shadowing), then, as far as VMS is concerned, > they have nothing to do with a HBVS shadow set until they are mounted. > > > If you issue a > > $ MOUNT /SHADOW=3D(member1,member2), MOUNT sees the two members are > > consistent (since the SCBs are identical and that of a shadowset > member, > > or had better be!) so it knows it can form a shadowset with no copy > > required, as long as they were full members when removed from the > original > > shadowset. > > If they are full members when removed, THEN set up as part of a > controller-based mirror set, THEN remounted as a shadow set, will that > still work? > > > However the shadowset members listed in the SCB will *not* > > match the names of the former RAID set members so you have to be > careful > > not to specify parameters such as /INCLUDE. > > Yes, that part is clear. Phillip, When using controller RAID devices with HBVS, you do not ever break the controller RAID - it always stays together. However, from an OpenVMS view, it simply looks like a single hard drive. Hence, when OpenVMS thinks you are down to a single device, it is really the HW raid set, so you are protected from a single drive failure in a single volume HBVS set. Another advantage with this is that drive rebuilds after failure are done at the HW RAID controller level and hence does not impact PCI buses, FC adapters, or any host based cycles. The only problem with this strategy is that it sometimes works to well i.e. a single drive fails in a set and no one notices it. Then a few months later, a second drive fails and then that's it - everyone out of the pool .. :-) Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Dec 2007 17:18:19 GMT From: MI5-Victim@mi5.gov.uk Subject: MI5-Persecution: No Justice for the Victims of MI5 (28989) Message-ID: MI5 Persecution Update: Friday 11 June, 1999 Harassment in a pub in Clapham, Tuesday lunchtime Once a month, or once every other month, I meet a Polish friends of mine who lives in Clapham North, and sometimes we go to a particular pub near where he lives. The last time was some two months ago; I did not have my minidisc-walkman with me, and consequently was seriously harassed by people MI5 had instructed to harass me, in the pub. This Tuesday, 8 June 1999, we again went to the same pub for a pre-meal drink. This time I did have my minidisc-walkman with me. As you can guess, we were followed into the pub by a couple of young people (Im getting older and older - isnt it funny how the MI5 agents all look young these days?). They started talking about my situation, in particular some travel I had booked the previous day. Unfortunately, they were talking fairly quietly, and my minidisc didnt pick up their speech. MI5s schizophrenic reasoning is that simultaneously I am very important and worthy of their acts of persecution, and I am also totally unimportant and their abuse of me "doesnt matter". Perhaps they should test their agents and managers for obsessive personalities or psychotic features in the same way as employees are drug-tested. MI5 might lose their "worst cases" employees if some psychological testing were applied to their recruitment procedure. Toothless Watchdogs. What a Surprise. Recently I have been engaging in communications with two watchdogs, the Security Service Tribunal which deals with complaints against the security service (and always clears MI5 of any wrongdoing), and the Data Protection Registrar, which is mandated to investigate misuse of personal data held on computer. In a letter to Nick Brooks, Security Service Tribunal secretary, dated 20 April, I asked him if the Tribunal, as an allegedly independent body, had the means to investigate complaints against MI5 other than asking MI5 to themselves investigate complaints. To my disappointment, his reply two weeks later answered the question only indirectly, in the negative. Whatever the reader might think of the merits of the case I have been putting before you in faxed articles this last year and half, you will surely recognise that it is a significant anomaly for the Tribunal to have no independent means of investigating complaints, particularly given the view expressed even by previous home secretaries that the security services are untrustworthy. MI5 Persecution: No Justice for the Victims of MI5 In a previous article I detailed the similarities between the current MI5 Persecution in England, and other historical instances of similar persecution, notably that by the Nazi Germans in the thirties and forties. The Germans persecuted first the mentally ill, the epileptics and those suffering from schizophrenia, then moved on to racial groups; in todays Britain the persecution is again directed at those with mental illness, which the British in their cowardice find easier than taking on racial groups as the Germans did. But just as in Thirties Germany there was no recourse against a malign and omnipotent state, so the MI5 Secret Police in the modern British Fascist State allow no justice for their victims. No Recourse Against the Security Services Illegal Harassment It has become apparent to me over the last nine years just how loaded the dice are in todays Britain, a fundamentally fascist country which masquerades as a democracy. Britain is a democracy in name only; the Establishment, the defence and MI5 secret police are always there, regardless of which party has been voted into power most recently - and from "New Labours" conduct in office one finds it difficult to tell them apart from Old Tories, in their crackdowns on the sick and vulnerable in society. In thirties Germany the victims of the Nazi regime had no legal recourse against their State oppressors; and in todays Fascist British state, the victims of the Establishment and its MI5 Secret Police similarly have no recourse against the illegal state-funded and organised oppression. There is supposed to be a mechanism for dealing with MI5 crimes, in the shape of the Security Service Tribunal and Commissioner; yet these have never found favour of a plaintiff. One might as well ask the Nazi SS to investigate crimes against epileptics or Jews as ask the Security Service Tribunal to investigate MI5 crimes against British citizens; it is quite obvious what the answer is going to be, regardless of what you say to them, and what evidence you provide. The Tribunal and Commissioner are a mere formality, a whitewashing body to give the Secret Services a veneer beneath which they hide their shabby criminality. "Institutional Racism" and Bigotry in the Metropolitan Police The recent inquiry into the racist murder of Stephen Lawrence found clear evidence of systematic and deliberate racism in the Metropolitan Police, which cannot have surprised anyone. Commissioner Sir Paul Condon accepted a somewhat lukewarm definition of institutional racism as being "unconscious". In truth, and this truth must surely be obvious to anyone who has any familiarity or encountered the great British police, the Met has not just "unconscious" racism, but very clearly "conscious" and deliberate racism, of the kind that would have done Thirties Germans proud. And it is a bastion of such open racism - when many other parts of society are learning to live in a multicultural environment, the Met is still living in the past in its attitude to the minorities. But in addition to the systematic racism confirmed by the Lawrence inquiry, there is also something much more relevant to this case, which is systematic police bigotry against the physically and mentally disabled, which I personally have experienced in my dealings with the police over the years. You cannot expect equal treatment if you are mentally disabled. I tried to make a complaint to the police in 1995 about the harassment I had been subjected to for several years. As soon as they found out I had mental illness, they refused to even talk to me. I tried again in March 1999; the police made various threats to me, while ranting about "your paranoid rubbish" in reference to the complaints expressed to them. The police refusal to do the job they are employed and paid to do is extremely serious, particularly as this case is highly important, indeed key to the whole issue of British self-perception at the end of the 20th century and the beginning of the 21st century. Britain has lost much in the last fifty years - it has lost an empire, it has lost its self-respect and its identity as a people. If the MI5 persecution finally makes it into the light and the Security Services are seen for the rather cheap bullies their behaviour indicates, it will have a massive and harmful effect on British self-perception in the new century. Security Service Tribunal - Blatant Whitewashing A few weeks ago I spoke on the phone to Nick Brooks, the Secretary of the Security Service Tribunal, which is supposed to deal with cases of MI5 transgression. I asked him if the Tribunal had ever found in favour of a plaintiff and against the Security Service. He answered that as far as he knew, it had not. I also asked Mr Brooks if the Tribunal had any means of investigating allegations of criminal activity by MI5, other than asking MI5 themselves if they had engaged in such activity. His rather circuitous written reply states that the 1989 Security Service Act provides that "it shall be the duty of every member of the Service to disclose or give to the Tribunal such documents or information as they may require for the purpose of enabling them to carry out their functions under this Act". Which is a very round-about way of saying - "No" - the Tribunal has no way of investigating MI5 crimes - None At All. Setting up the S.S. Tribunal, and creating a Security Service Commissioner, was really an act of falsehood by the government. It is generally recognised that MI5 are out of reach of the normal criminal justice system - the police, as we have seen, have no intesot answer to the government; in a previous article I quoted Roy Jenkins speaking of "a secretive atmosphere.... secretive vis-a-vis the government as well as [enemies]", and a "lack of frankness" from MI5. If the government wanted to, it could reform the secret services and ensure they acted in conformance with the laws which have been enacted for them in the last ten years. But apparently the present government does not see any need to ensure security service compliance with the law. As noted above, the regulatory machinery for MI5 is deliberately weak; the Tribunal has no independent means of investigation, and it is simply a waste of time complaining to the Tribunal or Commissioner. Every so often, fresh revelations come to light of secret service transgressions. We have heard from Shayler that MI5 bugged Jack Straw and Peter Mandelson; we have heard from Peter Wright that MI5 plotted to see Wilson ejected from office; yet so closed is the system of government that the law is never enforced against MI5 when they "bug and burgle" everyone from politicians to ordinary citizens. No Justice from the Legal System, either Britain has a civil and criminal justice system which effectively limits many complaints from being heard. For a civil complaint to be brought before a court, you need a solicitor willing to act on your behalf. Supposedly it is possible to represent yourself as a Litigant-in-Pthe basis of being "frivolous and vexatious" or "disclosing no cause for action in law". This is exactly what happened to me in 1997 when I twice tried to take the BBC to court for spying on me in my living room at home; my case was twice struck out, and on the second occasion an order was made against me that I could not bring further civil litigation against the BBC without leave of the court. As the reader can guess it is quite impossible for a person with schizophrenia, who complains about the secret services and media interfering in his life, to find a solicitor willing to represent him in legal action against the persecutors. I have quite a lot of evidence of the continuing persecution which I have posted on the website, even if the evidence is quite tentative and perhaps open to varying interpretations. But I have tried several firms of solicitors; some of them have acted unprofessionally and abused me; all of them have refused to represent me. My psychiatrist gave me the name of the firm of Bindman and Partners in central London, and I have approached them twice. On each occasion they refused to accept my instructions. Plainly the problem with Bindmans, which they have admitted, is their bigotry against mentally disabled people; yet this is not just something that is wrong with Bindmans, it is something that is wrong with the legal system as a whole, since the legal system necessitates finding a solicitor willing to represent you in order to bring a case to court, but it does not have a mechanism for providing a lawyer in the case where no solicitor is willing to take on your case. So the British legal system is such as to prevent cases such as mine from ever receiving an airing in a court. So much for the civil courts. But the criminal justice system is no better. Two years ago the Protection from Harassment Act came into force. But again, while the Act is all very well on paper, in practice it is unenforceable in my case, since it would require Police action to see the law implemented, and if the police cannot even be trusted to conduct a murder investigation competently (in the Lawrence case), then what chance is there of their investigating complaints against the Security Service? Of course, it would be possible for me to personally issue proceedings through a private prosecution either against MI5 themselves, or against one or more of their media tools; but here we see the same problems as with the civil courts, because first of all I would have to find a lawyer willing to act on my behalf. Litigants-in-person do exist in the criminal courts, but the Attorney General can bring such a prosecution to an end by taking it over and entering a plea of "nolle prossequi"; and I suspect that if I were to bring a private prosecution against either MI5 or one of their media tools, then this is exactly what would happen. So much for British justice. But if anything the wrongs that have been perpetrated on me by the British justice system are quite mild to what others have suffered. Others have been wrongly convicted based on police evasions and lies, and spent many years in jail based on false charges. I should count myself lucky that despite the best efforts of the MI5 secret police, I have not acquired any criminal charges or convictions; which shows that for all their resources and influence, and the clear imperfections in the British legal system, there are still limits on how much subversion MI5 can achieve. The latest in a long line of injustices A comment I heard during the recent scandal of the police mishandling of the Lawrence murder investigation is that "its not as if the police themselves murdered him". This is not a particularly wise statement to make about the case, since it could be argued that the four alleged murderers were aided in their crime by the expectation that the police would deliberately botch the investigation - which of course is exactly what the police did. But in my case, this would be a completely inaccurate thing to say - since the MI5 secret-police have expressly been trying to nine years now to see an end put to my life, either by having me incarcerated and my liberty ended, or by forcing self-termination on me. It is exactly as if the secret police "themselves murdered [me]", since that is what their aim is in their campaign against me. The public has heard of instances of police mishandling of cases, of police manufacturing evidence, lying in court, extracting false confessions to clear up crimes, et cetera. Various instances of extra-legal activity by the secret services have also come to light in the last few years. The unhappy truth is that what MI5 have been doing to me for the last nine years is really nothing out of the ordinary for them. To me it seems unbelievable that this sort of systematic campaign of harassment, which thousands and thousands of people in this country and abroad are well aware of, could exist for such a long period of time with the media maintaining "omerta". But my case is not the first such instance of persecution by the "British secret police", and judging by the lack of any real controls on MI5, I very much doubt it will be the last. 28989 -- Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service ------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------ Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 12:00:11 -0500 From: bradhamilton Subject: Running 5.5-2 just because you think you can (was:Re: VMS 5.5-2 patch question) Message-ID: <4765599B.4030802@comcast.net> gerry77@no.spam.mail.com wrote: > On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:07:23 GMT, Jan-Erik Söderholm > wrote: > >> Maybe start by telling us *why* you're installing 5.5-2 ! > > Not so serious answer: because voices in my head told me to do so! > > More serious answer: because after 6.1, 7.2, 7.3, 8.2 and 8.3 both on > VAX and Alpha (where applicable), I've got the insane, crazy desire to > try a bloody old 5.5-2 on an almighty MicroVAX II with less RAM than > ever, just for the sake of it! "Doctor, it hurts when I do that!" "So, don't do that!" :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:00:42 GMT From: gerry77@no.spam.mail.com Subject: VMS 5.5-2 patch question Message-ID: Hello everyone, I'm about to patch a newly installed VMS 5.5-2 (Hobbyist MicroVAX II) and noticed that VAXCLIU03_U2055 requires VAXVERI01_071, as per its cover letter. Unfortunately the latter is not available on the usual ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com server: I've discovered that it was superseded by VAXY2K01_071 which appears to be a VMS 7.1 patch only. The Year 2000 patch for VMS 5.5-2 is VAXY2K01_U2055 which in turn supersedes VAXVERI01_U2055. Maybe VAXVERI01_071 is a multi-version remedial kit and VAXVERI01_U2055 is its 5.5-2 specific issue? If I'll just install VAXY2K01_U2055 do you think that VAXCLIU03_U2055 requirements will be satisfied? What I'm supposed to do? Thank you very much, G. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:07:23 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: VMS 5.5-2 patch question Message-ID: gerry77@no.spam.mail.com wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I'm about to patch a newly installed VMS 5.5-2 (Hobbyist MicroVAX II) > and noticed that VAXCLIU03_U2055 requires VAXVERI01_071, as per its > cover letter. Unfortunately the latter is not available on the usual > ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com server: I've discovered that it was superseded > by VAXY2K01_071 which appears to be a VMS 7.1 patch only. > > The Year 2000 patch for VMS 5.5-2 is VAXY2K01_U2055 which in turn > supersedes VAXVERI01_U2055. Maybe VAXVERI01_071 is a multi-version > remedial kit and VAXVERI01_U2055 is its 5.5-2 specific issue? > > If I'll just install VAXY2K01_U2055 do you think that VAXCLIU03_U2055 > requirements will be satisfied? > > What I'm supposed to do? Maybe start by telling us *why* you're installing 5.5-2 ! Jan-Erik. > > Thank you very much, > G. > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 10:29:26 -0500 From: bradhamilton Subject: Re: VMS 5.5-2 patch question Message-ID: <47654456.9010000@comcast.net> Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > gerry77@no.spam.mail.com wrote: [...] (snip of 5.5-2 questions) >> What I'm supposed to do? > > Maybe start by telling us *why* you're installing 5.5-2 ! Or, to ask this question another way: Is there anything preventing you from obtaining and installing V7.3 of VMS for VAX? Apparently, you cannot do a simple upgrade from 5.5-2, but if this a hobbyist machine, recently acquired, and you don't have much experience with upgrades or patching in general, than it may be wise to consider a complete install of the latest (and final) version of VAX. Of course, if V7.3 will not install on a MicroVAX, than the above advice is moot; assuming that you can install it, the documentation here is well worth reading before installing: The hobbyist web site should have V7.3 VAX disks for sale, if you decide to go that route. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Dec 2007 16:49:22 +0100 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: VMS 5.5-2 patch question Message-ID: <47655712$1@news.langstoeger.at> In article , gerry77@no.spam.mail.com writes: >I'm about to patch a newly installed VMS 5.5-2 (Hobbyist MicroVAX II) Strange. As even such an old uVAX2 can run V7.3, I don't understand why you want to do this. Think again, please. >and noticed that VAXCLIU03_U2055 requires VAXVERI01_071, as per its >cover letter. On ITRC & in patches & cover letters there are often such silly bugs. If you ask at HPQ, the bugs get fixed most of the times (but unfortunately not always) and then all is clear again - until the next bug of course. (eg. current OpenVMS Alpha V8.3 master list states that VMS83A_MOUNT96 V3 is current and replaces the old VMS83A_MOUNT96 V3 which is now included in VMS83A_UPDATE V5 - it is of course VMS83A_MOUNT96 V4 which is current now ;-), But I don't think, that anyone ever fixes such an old version now. A _071 ECO is for VMS V7.1 only. You need _U2055 ECOs. > Unfortunately the latter is not available on the usual >ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com server: I've discovered that it was superseded >by VAXY2K01_071 which appears to be a VMS 7.1 patch only. Yup. ECOs for V5.5-2 are not there (as everything not even is PVS - like VMS Vx - V5, V6.0 - V6.1, V7.0 - V7.1 - is archived now). They are here: ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/archived_patches/openvms_patches/vax/5.X/v5.5-2/ ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/archived_patches/openvms_patches/vax5x.html Unfortunately, there are no master ECO lists for the old VMS versions. You have to read all cover letters yourself to find out, what is required. I'm wondering, if someone did such a list in the last years and posted it somewhere (openvms.org?)... >The Year 2000 patch for VMS 5.5-2 is VAXY2K01_U2055 which in turn >supersedes VAXVERI01_U2055. Maybe VAXVERI01_071 is a multi-version >remedial kit and VAXVERI01_U2055 is its 5.5-2 specific issue? Don't think so. >If I'll just install VAXY2K01_U2055 do you think that VAXCLIU03_U2055 >requirements will be satisfied? > >What I'm supposed to do? Think again (and maybe you end up on V7.3) and/or read again (if you haven't done the URLs of above already) -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:58:09 GMT From: gerry77@no.spam.mail.com Subject: Re: VMS 5.5-2 patch question Message-ID: <8tham3p9m51j8h63rroo7o4c9b9n17hq3a@4ax.com> On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:07:23 GMT, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > Maybe start by telling us *why* you're installing 5.5-2 ! Not so serious answer: because voices in my head told me to do so! More serious answer: because after 6.1, 7.2, 7.3, 8.2 and 8.3 both on VAX and Alpha (where applicable), I've got the insane, crazy desire to try a bloody old 5.5-2 on an almighty MicroVAX II with less RAM than ever, just for the sake of it! What about CLIU03_U2055? :-) Bye, G. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:02:57 GMT From: gerry77@no.spam.mail.com Subject: Re: VMS 5.5-2 patch question Message-ID: On 16 Dec 2007 16:49:22 +0100, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) wrote: > A _071 ECO is for VMS V7.1 only. You need _U2055 ECOs. I've ascertained that this is not always true, and if you look at ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/archived_patches/openvms_patches/vax/5.X/v5.5-2/ you'll find that there are patches such as VAXQMAN03_070 whose cover letter states the following: | 3.1 Version(s) of OpenVMS to which this kit may be applied: | | OpenVMS VAX V5.5-2, V5.5-2H4 V5.5-2HF, V6.0, V6.1, V6.2, V7.0 So it's not always true that ECO kits *_0xx are only for Vx.x, at least if we are speaking about old VMS releases. But keep on reading. > Unfortunately, there are no master ECO lists for the old VMS versions. > You have to read all cover letters yourself to find out, what is required. Just done that before posting here. My request was about the only patch about which I was in doubt. > >The Year 2000 patch for VMS 5.5-2 is VAXY2K01_U2055 which in turn > >supersedes VAXVERI01_U2055. Maybe VAXVERI01_071 is a multi-version > >remedial kit and VAXVERI01_U2055 is its 5.5-2 specific issue? > > Don't think so. I did think that cover letters and release notes inside the kits were almost the same, anyway I resorted to download VAXY2K01_U2055 kit to look inside it and read the following in VAXY2K01_U2055.RELEASE_NOTES: | Kit VAXY2K01_U2055 supersedes kit VAXVERI01_U2055. However, | kit VAXVERI01_U2055 contained no new problem solutions for | Version 5.5-2. Kit VAXVERI01_U2055 was issued to contain the | V5.5-2 fixes that were shipped in kit VAXVERI01_071, which | contained fixes for versions 5.5-2 through 7.1. However, there | were no new fixes for Version 5.5-2 in VAXVERI01_071 either. The | Version 5.5-2 fixes in VAXVERI01_071 were carried over from kit | VAXVERI01_062. Therefore, this section lists the Version 5.5-2 | problems that were addressed in VAXVERI01_62 and the kits it | superseded. This answers my original question and confirms my assertions about multi-version kits. Now I do know that to fulfill VAXCLIU03_U2055 requirements I just need to install VAXY2K01_U2055 and not to worry any more about VAXVERI01_071. 8-) Thank you for your help, G. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:03:57 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: VMS 5.5-2 patch question Message-ID: In article <47655712$1@news.langstoeger.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) writes: >In article , gerry77@no.spam.mail.com writes: >>I'm about to patch a newly installed VMS 5.5-2 (Hobbyist MicroVAX II) > >Strange. As even such an old uVAX2 can run V7.3, >I don't understand why you want to do this. Think again, please. > Maybe he has ported some software and wants to see whether it will compile under VMS 5.5-2 ? VAX VMS 5.5-2 seems to be a fairly common earliest supported version for a number of software packages eg TCPWARE, MULTINET etc David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University >>and noticed that VAXCLIU03_U2055 requires VAXVERI01_071, as per its >>cover letter. > >On ITRC & in patches & cover letters there are often such silly bugs. >If you ask at HPQ, the bugs get fixed most of the times (but unfortunately >not always) and then all is clear again - until the next bug of course. >(eg. current OpenVMS Alpha V8.3 master list states that VMS83A_MOUNT96 V3 >is current and replaces the old VMS83A_MOUNT96 V3 which is now included in >VMS83A_UPDATE V5 - it is of course VMS83A_MOUNT96 V4 which is current now ;-), >But I don't think, that anyone ever fixes such an old version now. > >A _071 ECO is for VMS V7.1 only. You need _U2055 ECOs. > >> Unfortunately the latter is not available on the usual >>ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com server: I've discovered that it was superseded >>by VAXY2K01_071 which appears to be a VMS 7.1 patch only. > >Yup. ECOs for V5.5-2 are not there (as everything not even is PVS - >like VMS Vx - V5, V6.0 - V6.1, V7.0 - V7.1 - is archived now). >They are here: > > ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/archived_patches/openvms_patches/vax/5.X/v5.5-2/ > ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/archived_patches/openvms_patches/vax5x.html > >Unfortunately, there are no master ECO lists for the old VMS versions. >You have to read all cover letters yourself to find out, what is required. >I'm wondering, if someone did such a list in the last years and posted it >somewhere (openvms.org?)... > >>The Year 2000 patch for VMS 5.5-2 is VAXY2K01_U2055 which in turn >>supersedes VAXVERI01_U2055. Maybe VAXVERI01_071 is a multi-version >>remedial kit and VAXVERI01_U2055 is its 5.5-2 specific issue? > >Don't think so. > >>If I'll just install VAXY2K01_U2055 do you think that VAXCLIU03_U2055 >>requirements will be satisfied? >> >>What I'm supposed to do? > >Think again (and maybe you end up on V7.3) >and/or read again (if you haven't done the URLs of above already) > > >-- >Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER >Network and OpenVMS system specialist >E-mail peter@langstoeger.at >A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:51:46 GMT From: gerry77@no.spam.mail.com Subject: Re: VMS 5.5-2 patch question Message-ID: <4inam35qllqcjncjbi0p3sdiivmsnlhd8c@4ax.com> On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 10:29:26 -0500, bradhamilton wrote: > if this a hobbyist machine, recently acquired, and you don't have much > experience with upgrades or patching in general, than it may be wise to > consider a complete install of the latest (and final) version of VAX. This machine came with no disks, no covers, no ethernet panel, only lots of dust. Now it's running with an RF72 DSSI disk connected to a KFQSA controller, almost ready to be connected to our DECnet [1]. > Of course, if V7.3 will not install on a MicroVAX, than the above advice > is moot; assuming that you can install it, the documentation here is > well worth reading before installing: Lacking a working tape drive or any other means to start it directly from media (as usual with such salvaged machines), I've just applied the "usual method": boot the "new" machine as a cluster satellite, initialize its disk, restore on it the base VMS*.B save set, copy over the other relevant save sets, boot it stand alone and complete the installation. Today the boot server was an x86 laptop with SIMH running V7.3 (!). :-) Bye, G. [1] http://decnet.ipv7.net/index.html.en ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 13:04:15 -0500 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" Subject: Re: VMS 5.5-2 patch question Message-ID: <4765224F.31254.E90B020@infovax.stanq.com> On 16 Dec 2007 at 10:29, bradhamilton wrote: > Is there anything preventing you from obtaining and installing V7.3 of > VMS for VAX? Apparently, you cannot do a simple upgrade from 5.5-2, but > if this a hobbyist machine, recently acquired, and you don't have much > experience with upgrades or patching in general, than it may be wise to > consider a complete install of the latest (and final) version of VAX. Running V7.3 is a good idea for production use, but I have clients running V5.5-2 (and all the way to V4.5). If you need to target the widest range of systems, the easiest way is to install an old version. Yes, I know of alternative methods that work but aren't "supported". Speaking of "supported", V5.5-2 is still supported by HP. So they must have at least one system somewhere for testing. I know they haven't converted to CHARON-VAX yet. [Shameless Plug Alert (tm) -- I'm a CHARON reseller] I'm still trying... --Stan Quayle Quayle Consulting Inc. ---------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH 43147 USA stan-at-stanq-dot-com http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option" ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.688 ************************