INFO-VAX Tue, 20 Nov 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 635 Contents: Re: "Mysterious" system crashes Re: "Mysterious" system crashes Re: "Mysterious" system crashes Re: "Mysterious" system crashes Re: "Mysterious" system crashes Re: A Look Ahead to 2008 Re: A Look Ahead to 2008 Re: A Look Ahead to 2008 Re: Announcing: gSoap for OpenVMS blog Re: Announcing: gSoap for OpenVMS blog Re: Announcing: gSoap for OpenVMS blog four VT100 terminals free Re: ftp.itrc.hp.com ftp server shutdown HP loses another large customer Re: HP loses another large customer Re: HP loses another large customer Re: HP loses another large customer Re: HP loses another large customer RE: HP loses another large customer Re: HP loses another large customer Re: In recognition of quality software Re: In recognition of quality software Re: In recognition of quality software Re: In recognition of quality software Re: In recognition of quality software Looking for a TPU section that does automatic word wrap Re: Looking for a TPU section that does automatic word wrap Re: Looking for a TPU section that does automatic word wrap Re: Looking for a TPU section that does automatic word wrap Re: OpenVMS Blades Webcast Re: OT: Data centre for the Church of Flying Spaghetti Monster Re: OT: Data centre for the Church of Flying Spaghetti Monster Re: OT: Data centre for the Church of Flying Spaghetti Monster Re: OT: Data centre for the Church of Flying Spaghetti Monster Re: OT: Data centre for the Church of Flying Spaghetti Monster Re: system constants in COBOL Re: Wireless. PCMCIA etc.? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:37:18 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: "Mysterious" system crashes Message-ID: <492ce242-0e18-451b-be50-898353e7ba44@y43g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> On Nov 17, 4:56 am, "John Wallace" wrote: > "Doug Phillips" wrote in message > > news:d5cbca11-5541-4f02-ae51-531ce9ee0169@b15g2000hsa.googlegroups.com... > > > > > On Nov 16, 5:01 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert" > > wrote: > > > Doug Phillips wrote: > > > > On Nov 16, 3:54 pm, s...@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) wrote: > > > > >>From: Doug Phillips > > > > >>>VA and the Amp rating on your tags are peak draw. Watts are average > > > >>>draw. Figure Watts at around 65% of VA. [...] > > > > >> If you believe this, you'd be wise to avoid offering advice (or > > > >>taking your own) on electrical topics. I'd offer a more detailed > > > >>explanation, but books already exist, and it is, in a sense, complex, > > > >>and requires a bit of imagination. > > > > > 65% is a "rule of thumb." The calculation to arrive at actual numbers > > > > is a bit more involved, but it isn't really "complex". > > > > > Ohm's law and the power formula involves simple math --- at least it > > > > did when I took electronics and worked in that trade before getting > > > > into software. I even remember some of the mnemonic rhymes. > > > > Ohm's law is not strictly applicable to alternating current except in a > > > purely resistive circuit! With AC both capacitive and inductive > > > reactance must be taken into account in addition to pure resistance. > > > > So E=IR and P=EI=I^2R for a light bulb but not necessarily for an > > > electric motor or any other reactive load. Some electric motors can be > > > made to appear as a capacitive load and the power company may give you > > > big discounts for running one. I believe it helps balance out the > > > inductive loads created by other customers. For further details, consult > > > an electrical engineer. > > > Ohm's law for AC isn't too different; E = IZ where E & I are the > > oscillating voltage (usually V rather than E) and current, and Z is > > the complex impedance for the oscillation frequency. Yes, AC is more > > complicated than DC, and does get more complicated from there, but > > doesn't most everything? > > > Watts = VA, (twinkle twinkle little star, power equals I squared R --- > > dang, now I'll have that running through my brain. At least I've > > gotten the resistor color code jingle out of my mind.) When VA and > > Watts are both shown on an appliance tag, and they're different > > numbers, VA is used to indicate peak, and Watts is used to indicate > > the average draw; the amount of power consumption you're most likely > > to see on your electric meter if the thing runs all of the time. > > > On to better things. > > Doug, either you don't fully know what you're talking about here or you're > expressing it really awkwardly. Maybe a little of both? I guess I've forgotten most of what I once knew, and I always seem to get jumped on by the "experts" here when I try to discuss complicated things in simple terms that non-experts can understand. I figure the "experts" already understand the complicated thing and don't need an explanation. If an "expert" wants to jump in and provide some technical translation, then that's fine with me. If an "expert" corrects or clarities something a non-expert says, I'm fine with that, too. A bald "that's wrong" reply is not helpful to anyone. I didn't mention power factor, but the active power number (W=VA*pf) is handy to use in guesstimating the change you might see on your electric bill even though that isn't what the number actually means. That's why I didn't mention power factor. You can do the real math to get a more exact estimate if you want. A typical PC power supply (not a 1:1 power supply or a light bulb) will have a pf range between (~). 55 and .75, or about .65 average. Beyond that, power factor means little to the home-computer UPS buyer other than when he's trying to understand how the power company calculates his electric bill, and I didn't intend to go there, and that's a completely different problem anyway. I certainly never intended to move into an EE or EEE level discussion, so I tried to not use engineering terms and I tried to avoid addressing complex concepts. You don't need to be an engineer or worry about capacitance and inductance and power factors to buy a for-home- use UPS if you use the numbers available to you and know a few ball- parking shot cuts. Otherwise, hire an engineer, take a course or read a book if you can't live with ball-parking. If you're an engineer, then by all means share your expertise. Try to use words that non-engineers will understand, though, and please move into the real world and out of the text books when you make a recommendation, thank you. Save the techno-babble for paying customers and cocktail parties. Since I have bought and used more SOHO size UPS's than I can count and I've had very few problems with the units I've bought I thought I'd share my experience. If you want to call me ignorant and dismiss my experience, then feel free to do so. If we were discussing a data center, I wouldn't have said anything except maybe "hire an engineer." But, this is a home system we're talking about and Brad indicated that a $600 UPS was over his budget, and I've been there and done that. Brad has given us the important numbers for his two 120V appliances: 5.5A (660VA) and 7.0A (840VA) for 12.5A and 1500VA total. So he can use one 20A circuit but he'd better be careful about what else he plugs into that circuit. With this type of equipment I'd ball-park that my electric bill would see a less than 1 kW per Hr increase if I run the equipment continuously. It will likely not be that high, but it could be, and there's no quick way to know without measuring it under real-world conditions. If we were talking about a 1500W electric space heater or light bulb, then I'd calculate things differently. Using the APC web-site UPS size calculator (which actually offers Alpha CPU choices!!) for just the PWS shows Back-UPS' ranging in price from $60 to $150 (higher if you move up to the Smart-UPS). Plugging in a 840VA requirement, we find units priced from $100-$150 on up. Looking further, there are even a few 1500VA-plus sized units for a bit more than the two smaller units. So, we see that he can buy one or two UPS' that will handle the load and offer some protection for less than $600. That's buying new. If he can find a working UPS or two that just need new batteries, that should cost even less and would be better than having nothing. I bought two new UPS's to use on a multiple device 1500VA rated load for around $300. I could have bought smaller units for less money but I wanted a few more minutes of up time. Like I said; it's for home, not a data center. If the home system has data center importance, then apply the more exact science and be prepared to spend more money. You should budget according to the importance and value of what you're protecting. If you can't afford to protect the system at all and you can't afford to lose it, then you're gambling with fate and the cards are stacked against you. Even a surge protector (one better than just a power-strip with a circuit breaker, of course) is better than nothing, and a UPS is better than a surge protector, and so on in steps up to data-center level protection. I consider a UPS and/or power conditioning to be an important part of *every* computer installation. You might not have a problem running without a UPS or conditioning and protection, but you're less likely to have a problem if you use a UPS and if you do have a problem it's less likely to be power related. If you stay with a name-brand, you'll find most manufacturers even offer an Equipment Protection Policy (read the fine print, though.) > Either way, it'd be in your own interests > (and others) to stick to stuff where your expertise can be helpful. > Understood. Thanks for looking out for my interests. Doesn't experience count or should all the people who aren't card-carrying experts just shut up? > As Steven already said, this may not be the best place for an in depth > explanation of a "complex" subject. Those who want to know more about the > relationship between Volts, Amps, Watts, VA, and VAr can go learn about > "power factor" (which I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned already, but there > we are). People who will know about power factor are people with a clue > about AC electrical power engineering (and trigonometry), and also people > who really understand UPSes (which may or may not include UPS salespeople). > I guess one does need an engineering degree to buy a home UPS. Darn. > Brad: I looked into UPSes once. > Once? How long ago was that? > The cheaper ones just pass through the > external mains when it's within the voltage limits, and switch to battery > when they decide the external mains voltage (or, maybe, frequency) is out of > tolerance (relevant keywords used to be "online", "offline" and "line > interactive" but these words are not often seen in the world of SoHo UPSes). > Whether one of these simplistic UPSes will help this particular problem is > moot, if the problem is related to "dirty" mains, as the UPS may not care > whether the mains is "clean" or not, so long as its own measured voltage > looks OK. > I'm pretty sure that all of my newer UPS' say they are line interactive (with a voltage regulating circuit) to handle transients and brownouts. They switch to battery during a black-out and output a stepped (pseudo) sine-wave. The spec I'm looking at indicates zero switching time, but I've never scoped it. Some old computers might have a problem with a non-sinoidal wave shape but the newer UPS' show much lower distortion than the older units. If you haven't looked in a while, you might want to look again. > If I was on a limited budget I'd probably get a SoHo UPS for the "PC" but > maybe not for the disk stuff (but I openly admit I haven't fully thought > through the implications of VMS being live while disks are unpowered). > I'd protect both. I'd like to get the equipment onto a clean, dedicated circuit if I could, but that often isn't practical. I'd certainly want to be aware of and concerned about other devices plugged in to that circuit. > If you are seriously looking into UPSes and spending serious money you may > also want to check how your chosen UPS behaves when external power is > restored *after* the UPS shuts down due to flat battery. Many of the cheap > ones *don't* automatically restart, you have to manually do something (which > isn't real helpful in a potentially-unattended environment). They don't tell > you this before you buy (or in the manual) though. > The newer units I have all sound an alarm if power gets too flaky (technical term;-) but will self-reset when the power stabilizes. If the battery flat-lines and the power comes back on then the UPS will resume its work and the battery will begin recharging. Most units come with Power-Chute software for PeeCee's. VAXman's VMS product was mentioned in another post. If the system has shut-down, then what it does when the power comes back is dependent on other factors. The older (or really cheap) UPS's didn't (don't) always come back automatically. I have an old Tripp-Lite 450 that wanted attention all of the time (the new Tripp-Lite's are worth looking at, though.) Its battery just died again this year and I don't know if I'll replace it or not. It was finally just handling my cell-phone chargers and cordless phone & answering machine, anyway, and I gave that job to a little old APC unit that has a fairly new battery. > Why would the power/crash problem start to appear after your suspect heating > appliances have been in service some time? I'll guess that contacts have > started to arc seriously, and weren't arcing much before. But it's only a > guess. If the problem is related to arcing I'm really not sure that any > sensibly-priced UPS will help. Fix the appliance, as the dirty power may > also affect other nearby electronic kit (TV, audio, etc), sometimes > permanently. > Exposing electronic equipment to power glitches, frequent on/off - heating/cooling cycles or a bad environment (like too high or low humidity and/or temperature) can create many insidious problems. Components can degrade from optimal to marginal and until they fail, they can present intermittent symptoms that are hard to diagnose. A power supply can just naturally lose efficiency over time, too. You're right, obviously, that a UPS (even a non-sensibly priced one) won't fix any damage that's already done. > I also looked into "mysterious crashes" earlier this week. Not on VMS, but > on a built-like-a-tank antique Compaq Deskpro running Win2K (so no chance of > any help from the OS). It hadn't stayed up for more than a few hours for the > last few months, and often when dying it scribbled on the boot sector. > Basically I'd abandoned it, but I need it again temporarily. I did the "PM" > thing already described by others (get rid of bulk dust, reseat memory, > cards, connectors, and cables), plus removed unused PCI cards, and changed a > badly creased IDE cable. So far it's been up longer than it has for ages > (but we know what Mr Murphy wants next don't we). > We've all met Mr. Murphy, I'm sure. He tells me I've probably said something in this post that you disagree with so you (and Steven) still think I'm an idiot --- but I can live with that. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:56:36 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: "Mysterious" system crashes Message-ID: <07111920563634_202002A8@antinode.org> From: Doug Phillips > [...] I always seem to get jumped on by the "experts" here when I > try to discuss complicated things in simple terms that non-experts can > understand. An explanation should be as simple as possible, but no simpler. Over-simplifying something is often less helpful than saying that it's too complicated to explain simply. > [...] A bald "that's wrong" reply is not helpful to anyone. It tells the next reader that a particular statement is not universally accepted. It's not intended to be a replacement for an EE textbook. > I didn't mention power factor, but the active power number (W=VA*pf) > is handy to use in guesstimating the change you might see on your > electric bill even though that isn't what the number actually means. It's not? > [...] Beyond that, power factor means > little to the home-computer UPS buyer other than when he's trying to > understand how the power company calculates his electric bill, and I > didn't intend to go there, and that's a completely different problem > anyway. Very little of this whole discussion matters much to a typical home-UPS buyer, which is what makes the misinformation especially pointless. > If you're an engineer, then by all means share your expertise. Try to > use words that non-engineers will understand, though, and please move > into the real world and out of the text books when you make a > recommendation, thank you. Save the techno-babble for paying customers > and cocktail parties. The stuff in those textbooks describes the real world. Complex numbers, properly applied, are not techno-babble, whether you understand them or not. > [...] Doesn't > experience count or should all the people who aren't card-carrying > experts just shut up? Experience is fine, but it doesn't make false statements into true ones. In general, if you don't actually understand something, it may be wise not to try to explain it. > I guess one does need an engineering degree to buy a home UPS. Darn. No, but psuedo-explanations of how to calculate the proper rating for one don't actually help anyone, either. And the degree is less important than the knowledge. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:35:01 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: "Mysterious" system crashes Message-ID: <3dc96a93-4d7e-4378-b1ba-ac9a95fdb866@d50g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Nov 19, 8:56 pm, s...@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) wrote: Absolutely nothing helpful to anyone. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 21:55:50 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: "Mysterious" system crashes Message-ID: <07111921555096_202002A8@antinode.org> From: Doug Phillips > On Nov 19, 8:56 pm, s...@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) wrote: > Absolutely nothing helpful to anyone. "First, do no harm", is my motto. You should consider adopting it. SMS. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:41:08 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: "Mysterious" system crashes Message-ID: <6980d182-02a4-4e2a-a7b6-68a88e5f6a5a@o6g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> On Nov 19, 9:55 pm, s...@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) wrote: > From: Doug Phillips > > > On Nov 19, 8:56 pm, s...@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) wrote: > > Absolutely nothing helpful to anyone. > > "First, do no harm", is my motto. You should consider adopting it. > > SMS. Maybe you'd like to go back and address the actual UPS selection advise I gave in my post, or address the subject in your own words if you'd rather, but at least show an effort to help rather than belittle. Your selectively edited reply was not helpful and some might even consider it hurtful. I would be anxious to hear your recommendations since you've implied you have expert knowledge on the subject of UPS selection. I do respect your opinion on many other subjects so maybe I, and others, can learn something from you. I have never attacked anyone without provocation but neither do I turn the other cheek. Maybe you should adopt your motto as your creed. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 11:47:36 -0800 (PST) From: yyyc186 Subject: Re: A Look Ahead to 2008 Message-ID: <3dcef49b-d999-4858-8770-7fd221241cd6@c29g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> It seems to be that HP is driving everyone away from this platform, not realizing that we will all abandoned HP, not just OpenVMS. Currently, I'm writing my last ever OpenVMS based geek book. "The Minimum You Need to Know About SOA". I was going to can this book, but only have about 6 chapters left to go on it and it "might" cover the printing costs. Any books I write in the future will be either novels or Ubuntu oriented since that is the Unix platform of choice in the industry. On a side note, I am interested in finding someone (actually a group of someones) with a merchant account willing to staff a booth at the Feb HP show in Las Vegas. I want them to peddle the 3 current books in "The Minimum You Need to Know" series. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 21:14:11 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: A Look Ahead to 2008 Message-ID: <33f4$474242f3$cef8887a$10338@TEKSAVVY.COM> David J Dachtera wrote: > We're moving to IBM+AIX on p5-Series. Since it is inevitable that some HP apologist will blame this on JF, I might as well apoligise in advance for having caused the loss of an HP customer I don't even know. :-) To Mr Dachtera, in a way, I envy you. Once fully weined from VMS, you won't have to worry about what HP's true intentions are with regards to VMS. My only suggestion would be to ignore HP's requests for an explanation (if they even notice the loss of a customer). Just tell them that you have given them FOR YEARS hints of the simple things that they needed to do to retain VMS customers and they ignored you. Tell them that by the time they notice a customer leaving, it is way too late. They had plenty of warnings from you (and many others) and chose to ignore those. When Hoff repeatedly stated that there were no plans to move VMS beyond IA64, I think he really meant it. Perhaps HP expects VMS loyalists to prostitute themselves and support IA64 because they know that VMS will die with IA64, so the longer IA64 lives, the longer VMS lives. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 23:18:19 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: A Look Ahead to 2008 Message-ID: <4742600B.2020005@comcast.net> norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: > > Sic Transit Gloria Mundi. > Tuesday is usually worse! ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:44:55 -0800 (PST) From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: Announcing: gSoap for OpenVMS blog Message-ID: <929c7f1b-6c90-45a3-98dc-64cc87f108a8@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Nov 3, 2:19 pm, IanMiller wrote: > Also announced onwww.OpenVMS,Orghttp://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=07/11/01/0255836 > > with extra info in the hope of reaching the people who don't read this > newsgroup any more. So at the risk of either getting no response at all, or a verbalanche, I'll ask... Is GSoap just a variation on the SOAP toolkits provided since the compaq days (per http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/soap/soap.html) or the upcoming replacement Apache Axis-2 packages)? A lighter or easier to use "front end" package perhaps? I remember downloading the Compaq Soap 1.0 package in 2001-2002 timeframe but we never were able to make the time to work with it. Rich ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 23:23:42 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Announcing: gSoap for OpenVMS blog Message-ID: <2Wo0j.602$R_4.311@newsb.telia.net> Rich Jordan wrote: > On Nov 3, 2:19 pm, IanMiller wrote: >> Also announced onwww.OpenVMS,Orghttp://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=07/11/01/0255836 >> >> with extra info in the hope of reaching the people who don't read this >> newsgroup any more. > > So at the risk of either getting no response at all, or a verbalanche, > I'll ask... > > Is GSoap just a variation on the SOAP toolkits provided since the > compaq days (per http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/soap/soap.html) > or the upcoming replacement Apache Axis-2 packages)? That one was a Java-tool. gSOAP is to build API from "normal" 3G's such as C or whatever... No ODS5. No Java. Jan-Erik (hoping to have my first proof-of-concept case running in a week or so...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:24:53 -0800 (PST) From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: Announcing: gSoap for OpenVMS blog Message-ID: <59ccbf97-666f-4f2b-8112-5c54d75b4bb2@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Nov 19, 5:23 pm, Jan-Erik S=F6derholm wrote: > Rich Jordan wrote: > > On Nov 3, 2:19 pm, IanMiller wrote: > >> Also announced onwww.OpenVMS,Orghttp://www.openvms.org/stories.php?stor= y=3D07/11/01/0255836 > > >> with extra info in the hope of reaching the people who don't read this > >> newsgroup any more. > > > So at the risk of either getting no response at all, or a verbalanche, > > I'll ask... > > > Is GSoap just a variation on the SOAP toolkits provided since the > > compaq days (perhttp://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/soap/soap= .html) > > or the upcoming replacement Apache Axis-2 packages)? > > That one was a Java-tool. > > gSOAP is to build API from "normal" 3G's such as C or whatever... > > No ODS5. No Java. > > Jan-Erik > (hoping to have my first proof-of-concept case running > in a week or so...) Thanks! Rich ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:22:32 -0600 From: "Lee K. Gleason" Subject: four VT100 terminals free Message-ID: I'm narrowing the scope of my collection (translation - no room for everything anymore). I have four VT100s, in pretty good shape, and a few additional extra keyboards as well. Free to whoever wants to pick 'em up in Houston Texas, near TC Jester & the North Loop. First come, first served.... -- Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR Control-G Consultants lee.gleason@comcast.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:40:02 -0500 From: bradhamilton Subject: Re: ftp.itrc.hp.com ftp server shutdown Message-ID: <47422CE2.2000006@comcast.net> david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > Any idea why the ftp.itrc.com ftp server is shutdown and how long it is likely > to be down for ? > > Alpha2:ftp ftp.itrc.hp.com > 500 i3107ffs FTP server shut down -- please try again later. Dunno why, but in any case, it seems to be up "now": $ ftp ftp.itrc.hp.com 220- 220-Welcome to the IT Resource Center ftp server 220------------------------------------------------------- 220- 220-You are user 10, and there is a limit of 800 simultaneous accesses. 220- 220-Log in as user "anonymous" (using your e-mail address as your password) 220-to retrieve available patches for HP-UX, MPE/iX, and other platforms. 220- 220-If you are a user of other HP ITRC services, log in with your 220-HP ITRC User ID and password to deposit or retrieve your files. 220- 220-If you have questions, send email to: 220- 220- support_feedback@europe-ffs.external.hp.com 220- 220 i3107ffs FTP server (HP ASL ftpd, version(400)) ready. _Username [system]: anonymous 331 Guest login ok, send your complete e-mail address as password. _Password: 230 Guest login ok, access restrictions apply. 502 SITE command not implemented. FTP> ls 200 PORT command successful. 150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for file list. users archive bin export tmp domain_patches archived_patches firmware_patches hp-ux_patches mpe-ix_patches mv_patches linux superseded_patches recalled_patches patches_with_warnings openvms_patches tru64_patches data product_patches patch_bundles 226 Transfer complete. FTP> exit 221 Goodbye. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:05:06 -0800 (PST) From: yyyc186 Subject: HP loses another large customer Message-ID: Here is a snippet for a job at what used to be a pretty large HP customer: Prestigious Company located in Chicago's Loop is currently seeking an Assembler Developer. There is an open position for a dynamic individual who is interested in joining our team. The candidate will support the application, as well as learning other applications supported by the team, to include the GDS application, PCA, Oscar, and Fidelity Sweep. The candidate will support TBR, which is the application that provides many areas of the bank with cash balance information, adjustments, daylight overdraft accounting, cash forecasting, and source of intra-day posting processes to various trust applications. TBR also produces many online and batch reports that are used by many partner areas of the bank for reconciliation, forecasting, balancing, investments, regulation compliance and history. Components of TBR have been developed on the DEC VAX and the IBM mainframe. The VAX platform will be sunset in the future, requiring the remaining components and processes for TBR to be re-engineered on the mainframe platform. To achieve the goal of porting the remaining components of the application to a new platform, the role of the candidate will require strong analysis and programming skills At some point I would expect a person with a pulse would wake up and smell the coffee, but I no longer believe there is anyone with a pulse in HP's upper management. HP-UX has been an industry joke for decades, yet they keep using the inkjet cartridge sales to support that dead horse. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:37:35 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: HP loses another large customer Message-ID: <4742021F.4080602@comcast.net> yyyc186 wrote: > Here is a snippet for a job at what used to be a pretty large HP > customer: > > Prestigious Company located in Chicago's Loop is currently seeking an > Assembler Developer. > > There is an open position for a dynamic individual who is interested > in joining our team. The candidate will support the application, as > well as learning other applications supported by the team, to include > the GDS application, PCA, Oscar, and Fidelity Sweep. The candidate > will support TBR, which is the application that provides many areas of > the bank with cash balance information, adjustments, daylight > overdraft accounting, cash forecasting, and source of intra-day > posting processes to various trust applications. TBR also produces > many online and batch reports that are used by many partner areas of > the bank for reconciliation, forecasting, balancing, investments, > regulation compliance and history. > > Components of TBR have been developed on the DEC VAX and the IBM > mainframe. The VAX platform will be sunset in the future, requiring > the remaining components and processes for TBR to be re-engineered on > the mainframe platform. To achieve the goal of porting the remaining > components of the application to a new platform, the role of the > candidate will require strong analysis and programming skills > > > > At some point I would expect a person with a pulse would wake up and > smell the coffee, but I no longer believe there is anyone with a pulse > in HP's upper management. HP-UX has been an industry joke for > decades, yet they keep using the inkjet cartridge sales to support > that dead horse. It's not the same without Bill and Dave! It hasn't been for many years!! I think it died when the bean counters and marketing (change the name of the product!) types replaced the engineers! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:12:35 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: HP loses another large customer Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:37:35 -0800, Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > yyyc186 wrote: >> Here is a snippet for a job at what used to be a pretty large HP >> customer: >> Prestigious Company located in Chicago's Loop is currently seeking an >> Assembler Developer. >> There is an open position for a dynamic individual who is interested >> in joining our team. The candidate will support the application, as >> well as learning other applications supported by the team, to include >> the GDS application, PCA, Oscar, and Fidelity Sweep. The candidate >> will support TBR, which is the application that provides many areas of >> the bank with cash balance information, adjustments, daylight >> overdraft accounting, cash forecasting, and source of intra-day >> posting processes to various trust applications. TBR also produces >> many online and batch reports that are used by many partner areas of >> the bank for reconciliation, forecasting, balancing, investments, >> regulation compliance and history. >> Components of TBR have been developed on the DEC VAX and the IBM >> mainframe. The VAX platform will be sunset in the future, requiring >> the remaining components and processes for TBR to be re-engineered on >> the mainframe platform. To achieve the goal of porting the remaining >> components of the application to a new platform, the role of the >> candidate will require strong analysis and programming skills >> At some point I would expect a person with a pulse would wake up and >> smell the coffee, but I no longer believe there is anyone with a pulse >> in HP's upper management. HP-UX has been an industry joke for >> decades, yet they keep using the inkjet cartridge sales to support >> that dead horse. > > It's not the same without Bill and Dave! It hasn't been for many > years!! I think it died when the bean counters and marketing (change > the name of the product!) types replaced the engineers! > We too will lose a major European Auto Manuf for lack of PL/I on Itanium. They are smart enough to know the AIX is a better solution than translating to some (semantically) inferior language. And HP thought they were going to generate service revenues by providing consultants to translate to C++. AFAIK, not a single account has done so. Duh. -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 07:28:43 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: HP loses another large customer Message-ID: Hi Tom, > to generate service revenues by providing consultants to translate to C++. > AFAIK, not a single account has done so. Duh. Are HP/VMS sending out more signals that they're abandoning Java? Is C++ what everyone will be wearing this summer? Cheers Richard Maher PS. If it helps soften then blow any, it might be PL/I today but it looks like it'll be all "legacy" 3GL customers tomorrow :-( "Tom Linden" wrote in message news:op.t117y9hnhv4qyg@murphus... > On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:37:35 -0800, Richard B. Gilbert > wrote: > > > yyyc186 wrote: > >> Here is a snippet for a job at what used to be a pretty large HP > >> customer: > >> Prestigious Company located in Chicago's Loop is currently seeking an > >> Assembler Developer. > >> There is an open position for a dynamic individual who is interested > >> in joining our team. The candidate will support the application, as > >> well as learning other applications supported by the team, to include > >> the GDS application, PCA, Oscar, and Fidelity Sweep. The candidate > >> will support TBR, which is the application that provides many areas of > >> the bank with cash balance information, adjustments, daylight > >> overdraft accounting, cash forecasting, and source of intra-day > >> posting processes to various trust applications. TBR also produces > >> many online and batch reports that are used by many partner areas of > >> the bank for reconciliation, forecasting, balancing, investments, > >> regulation compliance and history. > >> Components of TBR have been developed on the DEC VAX and the IBM > >> mainframe. The VAX platform will be sunset in the future, requiring > >> the remaining components and processes for TBR to be re-engineered on > >> the mainframe platform. To achieve the goal of porting the remaining > >> components of the application to a new platform, the role of the > >> candidate will require strong analysis and programming skills > >> At some point I would expect a person with a pulse would wake up and > >> smell the coffee, but I no longer believe there is anyone with a pulse > >> in HP's upper management. HP-UX has been an industry joke for > >> decades, yet they keep using the inkjet cartridge sales to support > >> that dead horse. > > > > It's not the same without Bill and Dave! It hasn't been for many > > years!! I think it died when the bean counters and marketing (change > > the name of the product!) types replaced the engineers! > > > > We too will lose a major European Auto Manuf for lack of PL/I on Itanium. > They are smart enough to know the AIX is a better solution than translating > to some (semantically) inferior language. And HP thought they were going > to generate service revenues by providing consultants to translate to C++. > AFAIK, not a single account has done so. Duh. > > -- > PL/I for OpenVMS > www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:46:34 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: HP loses another large customer Message-ID: <47424A8A.B96DFDC9@spam.comcast.net> Tom Linden wrote: > > On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:37:35 -0800, Richard B. Gilbert > wrote: > > > yyyc186 wrote: > >> Here is a snippet for a job at what used to be a pretty large HP > >> customer: > >> Prestigious Company located in Chicago's Loop is currently seeking an > >> Assembler Developer. > >> There is an open position for a dynamic individual who is interested > >> in joining our team. The candidate will support the application, as > >> well as learning other applications supported by the team, to include > >> the GDS application, PCA, Oscar, and Fidelity Sweep. The candidate > >> will support TBR, which is the application that provides many areas of > >> the bank with cash balance information, adjustments, daylight > >> overdraft accounting, cash forecasting, and source of intra-day > >> posting processes to various trust applications. TBR also produces > >> many online and batch reports that are used by many partner areas of > >> the bank for reconciliation, forecasting, balancing, investments, > >> regulation compliance and history. > >> Components of TBR have been developed on the DEC VAX and the IBM > >> mainframe. The VAX platform will be sunset in the future, requiring > >> the remaining components and processes for TBR to be re-engineered on > >> the mainframe platform. To achieve the goal of porting the remaining > >> components of the application to a new platform, the role of the > >> candidate will require strong analysis and programming skills > >> At some point I would expect a person with a pulse would wake up and > >> smell the coffee, but I no longer believe there is anyone with a pulse > >> in HP's upper management. HP-UX has been an industry joke for > >> decades, yet they keep using the inkjet cartridge sales to support > >> that dead horse. > > > > It's not the same without Bill and Dave! It hasn't been for many > > years!! I think it died when the bean counters and marketing (change > > the name of the product!) types replaced the engineers! > > > > We too will lose a major European Auto Manuf for lack of PL/I on Itanium. > They are smart enough to know the AIX is a better solution than translating > to some (semantically) inferior language. When I was working for Mark Levy during 2000, he had one shop that was doing their DIBOL development on VAX and VESTing the images to Alpha. I suppose one could retain PL/I on Alpha and AEST the images to Itanic. > And HP thought they were going > to generate service revenues by providing consultants to translate to C++. > AFAIK, not a single account has done so. Duh. Is C++ REALLY considered a "language"?? :-) -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 03:18:42 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: HP loses another large customer Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Richard Maher [mailto:maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com] Sent: November 19, 2007 6:29 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com Subject: Re: HP loses another large customer Hi Tom, > to generate service revenues by providing consultants to translate to C++= . > AFAIK, not a single account has done so. Duh. Are HP/VMS sending out more signals that they're abandoning Java? Is C++ what everyone will be wearing this summer? Cheers Richard Maher PS. If it helps soften then blow any, it might be PL/I today but it looks l= ike it'll be all "legacy" 3GL customers tomorrow :-( [snip] Well, imho, with the massive move towards much more centralized, much more secure and highly available solutions at much lower costs (read staffing and admin per OS instances which make up 60-70% of the typical IT budget), I suspect the "new" dinosaurs emerging are those that think distributed systems and the one business application per OS instance culture associated with some platforms is the way of the future. Interesting times ahead .. And fwiw, I think 3GL style programming is a long, long way from being retired. :-) Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 21:45:17 -0700 From: "Michael D. Ober" Subject: Re: HP loses another large customer Message-ID: <13k4pj1fjm74j7d@corp.supernews.com> "Main, Kerry" wrote in message news:C72D63EB292C9E49AED23F705C61957BDEBA430780@G1W0487.americas.hpqcorp.net... -----Original Message----- From: Richard Maher [mailto:maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com] Sent: November 19, 2007 6:29 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com Subject: Re: HP loses another large customer Hi Tom, > to generate service revenues by providing consultants to translate to C++. > AFAIK, not a single account has done so. Duh. Are HP/VMS sending out more signals that they're abandoning Java? Is C++ what everyone will be wearing this summer? Cheers Richard Maher PS. If it helps soften then blow any, it might be PL/I today but it looks like it'll be all "legacy" 3GL customers tomorrow :-( [snip] > Well, imho, with the massive move towards much more centralized, much > more secure and highly available solutions at much lower costs (read > staffing and admin per OS instances which make up 60-70% of the typical > IT budget), I suspect the "new" dinosaurs emerging are those that think > distributed systems and the one business application per OS instance > culture associated with some platforms is the way of the future. That's why virtualization is all the rage now. Neither Linux nor Windows was architected to easily configure and support multiple applications on the server side. Virtualization allows these OS's to properly handle multiple apps, although it comes at the cost of system runtime overhead. > Interesting times ahead .. And fwiw, I think 3GL style programming is a > long, long way from being retired. 3GL will always have a place. I have worked in a pure OO environment and it was an absolute nightmare. The future of development will use a combination of 3GL and later development methodologies. Mike Ober. :-) Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:49:14 +0100 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: In recognition of quality software Message-ID: <4741daa9$0$21924$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk> Bob Koehler wrote: > Just anecdotal evidence, but I thought it was interesting. > > I've had a number of long time Wintel folks recently tell me about > getting an Intel Mac, set it up parallel boot Windows, and how great > it was to be able to switch from MacOS to Windows and back with a > couple keys. > > A few weeks later, and its "Windows is out the window." for them. > > Sigh; too bad they can't dual-boot VMS. I'm going to have to find > time to show them SIMH. I played with a new one the other day. The Mac interface is still streets ahead. I was also impressed with the VMWare software which is a most seamless of integration of Windows applications into the Mac environment. However, having just slugged a Dell something or other around the world for 2 weeks, I can assure you that no laptop weighing in at over 1kg is ever going into my luggage again. Now, a Vaio TZ90 running MacOS (excuse me, I foget its correct name) would fit the bill admirably. The MacBooks are still too heavy. Dr. Dweeb ------------------------------ Date: 19 Nov 2007 19:21:06 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: In recognition of quality software Message-ID: <5qe612FvcsuvU1@mid.individual.net> In article <4741daa9$0$21924$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>, "Dr. Dweeb" writes: > Bob Koehler wrote: >> Just anecdotal evidence, but I thought it was interesting. >> >> I've had a number of long time Wintel folks recently tell me about >> getting an Intel Mac, set it up parallel boot Windows, and how great >> it was to be able to switch from MacOS to Windows and back with a >> couple keys. >> >> A few weeks later, and its "Windows is out the window." for them. >> >> Sigh; too bad they can't dual-boot VMS. I'm going to have to find >> time to show them SIMH. > > I played with a new one the other day. The Mac interface is still streets > ahead. I was also impressed with the VMWare software which is a most > seamless of integration of Windows applications into the Mac environment. > > However, having just slugged a Dell something or other around the world for > 2 weeks, I can assure you that no laptop weighing in at over 1kg is ever > going into my luggage again. > > Now, a Vaio TZ90 running MacOS (excuse me, I foget its correct name) would > fit the bill admirably. The MacBooks are still too heavy. Except that it would still be a Sony. :-( Have you played with the AUS EeePC yet? :-) Comes with Linux installed instead of Windows. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 19 Nov 2007 19:40:46 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: In recognition of quality software Message-ID: <5qe75uFvcsuvU5@mid.individual.net> In article <5qe612FvcsuvU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > In article <4741daa9$0$21924$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>, > "Dr. Dweeb" writes: >> Bob Koehler wrote: >>> Just anecdotal evidence, but I thought it was interesting. >>> >>> I've had a number of long time Wintel folks recently tell me about >>> getting an Intel Mac, set it up parallel boot Windows, and how great >>> it was to be able to switch from MacOS to Windows and back with a >>> couple keys. >>> >>> A few weeks later, and its "Windows is out the window." for them. >>> >>> Sigh; too bad they can't dual-boot VMS. I'm going to have to find >>> time to show them SIMH. >> >> I played with a new one the other day. The Mac interface is still streets >> ahead. I was also impressed with the VMWare software which is a most >> seamless of integration of Windows applications into the Mac environment. >> >> However, having just slugged a Dell something or other around the world for >> 2 weeks, I can assure you that no laptop weighing in at over 1kg is ever >> going into my luggage again. >> >> Now, a Vaio TZ90 running MacOS (excuse me, I foget its correct name) would >> fit the bill admirably. The MacBooks are still too heavy. > > Except that it would still be a Sony. :-( > > Have you played with the AUS EeePC yet? :-) Comes with Linux installed ^^^ Oops. Fumble Fingers. That should be ASUS. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 23:03:43 +0100 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: In recognition of quality software Message-ID: <47420a9c$0$21932$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article <4741daa9$0$21924$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>, > "Dr. Dweeb" writes: >> Bob Koehler wrote: >>> Just anecdotal evidence, but I thought it was interesting. >>> >>> I've had a number of long time Wintel folks recently tell me about >>> getting an Intel Mac, set it up parallel boot Windows, and how >>> great it was to be able to switch from MacOS to Windows and back >>> with a couple keys. >>> >>> A few weeks later, and its "Windows is out the window." for them. >>> >>> Sigh; too bad they can't dual-boot VMS. I'm going to have to find >>> time to show them SIMH. >> >> I played with a new one the other day. The Mac interface is still >> streets ahead. I was also impressed with the VMWare software which >> is a most seamless of integration of Windows applications into the >> Mac environment. >> >> However, having just slugged a Dell something or other around the >> world for 2 weeks, I can assure you that no laptop weighing in at >> over 1kg is ever going into my luggage again. >> >> Now, a Vaio TZ90 running MacOS (excuse me, I foget its correct name) >> would fit the bill admirably. The MacBooks are still too heavy. > > Except that it would still be a Sony. :-( > > Have you played with the AUS EeePC yet? :-) Comes with Linux > installed instead of Windows. Nope. I will go googling to see what it might be. I did play with a Nokia E90, which as a long time PSION user I liked a lot. Dweeb > > bill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 23:23:16 +0100 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: In recognition of quality software Message-ID: <47420cd4$0$21927$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article <5qe612FvcsuvU1@mid.individual.net>, > billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> In article <4741daa9$0$21924$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>, >> "Dr. Dweeb" writes: >>> Bob Koehler wrote: >>>> Just anecdotal evidence, but I thought it was interesting. >>>> >>>> I've had a number of long time Wintel folks recently tell me >>>> about getting an Intel Mac, set it up parallel boot Windows, and >>>> how great it was to be able to switch from MacOS to Windows and >>>> back with a couple keys. >>>> >>>> A few weeks later, and its "Windows is out the window." for them. >>>> >>>> Sigh; too bad they can't dual-boot VMS. I'm going to have to >>>> find time to show them SIMH. >>> >>> I played with a new one the other day. The Mac interface is still >>> streets ahead. I was also impressed with the VMWare software which >>> is a most seamless of integration of Windows applications into the >>> Mac environment. >>> >>> However, having just slugged a Dell something or other around the >>> world for 2 weeks, I can assure you that no laptop weighing in at >>> over 1kg is ever going into my luggage again. >>> >>> Now, a Vaio TZ90 running MacOS (excuse me, I foget its correct >>> name) would fit the bill admirably. The MacBooks are still too >>> heavy. >> >> Except that it would still be a Sony. :-( >> >> Have you played with the AUS EeePC yet? :-) Comes with Linux >> installed > ^^^ > Oops. Fumble Fingers. That should be ASUS. > OK. I quick look revealed the rebirth of the RadioShack TS100 (I think that was the number). Anyway, this is a machine of the same soul. A note taking machine with added full modern connectivity, fast enough and enough memory and USB ports for the necessary expansions when stationary. I may have actually seen these in Pantip Plaza last week, but strolled by unaware of what they were. Certainly an option for those of us who simply need connectivity and writing capability on the road with a small luggage footprint. Let's face it, how much work do people actually do on the road that actually warrants the CPU power and weight that get's lugged around? I used to fly an aweful lot (100+ sectors a year), and I have spent a lot of time at gates and in lounges watching people using their laptops - Solitaire seems to be the most used application. It looks a bit "kiddy plastic" in white, but hey, no one said that about all those Macs. Anyway, it's an interesting option, thanks for the pointer. Now, can I get it to run MacOS? :) Dr. Dweeb > bill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:06:57 -0500 From: "Syltrem" Subject: Looking for a TPU section that does automatic word wrap Message-ID: <13k4282oo2tms2c@corp.supernews.com> Hi ! Does anyone know of a TPU section file that would do automatic word wrapping ? Does it exist as a freeware or else, or can it be done at all, you think ? Currently the wrapping is really simplistic as the cursor must be at the end of the line for the wrap to occur. If that does not exist, is there a way to force a FILL on the entire buffer upon exit ? Thanks OVMS 8.3 -- Syltrem http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS information and help, en français) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:42:27 -0500 From: John Reagan Subject: Re: Looking for a TPU section that does automatic word wrap Message-ID: Syltrem wrote: > Hi ! > > Does anyone know of a TPU section file that would do automatic word wrapping > ? > Does it exist as a freeware or else, or can it be done at all, you think ? > > Currently the wrapping is really simplistic as the cursor must be at the end > of the line for the wrap to occur. > > If that does not exist, is there a way to force a FILL on the entire buffer > upon exit ? > What editor are you using? TPU by itself isn't an editor but an environment used to write editors. If you are using EVE, you can find all the sources for EVE in SYS$EXAMPLES:EVE*.* There is a whole section in the TPU manual about writing TPU code compatible with EVE and extending existing section files. I think you can do what you want. FILL at exit is probably the easiest if that is all you need. -- John Reagan OpenVMS Pascal/Macro-32/COBOL Project Leader Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:44:42 -0800 From: Fred Bach Subject: Re: Looking for a TPU section that does automatic word wrap Message-ID: John Reagan wrote: > Syltrem wrote: >> Hi ! >> >> Does anyone know of a TPU section file that would do automatic word >> wrapping ? >> Does it exist as a freeware or else, or can it be done at all, you >> think ? >> >> Currently the wrapping is really simplistic as the cursor must be at >> the end of the line for the wrap to occur. >> >> If that does not exist, is there a way to force a FILL on the entire >> buffer upon exit ? >> > > What editor are you using? TPU by itself isn't an editor but an > environment used to write editors. > > If you are using EVE, you can find all the sources for EVE in > SYS$EXAMPLES:EVE*.* > > There is a whole section in the TPU manual about writing TPU code > compatible with EVE and extending existing section files. I think you > can do what you want. FILL at exit is probably the easiest if that is > all you need. > Syltrem, Here is a TPU command file (TPU$COMMAND.TPU) in my SYS$LOGIN directory. Among the procedures described are 3 that re-wrap paragraphs within different right & left margins. The 3 key assignments to trigger these paragraph-wrapping procedures are PF1-P, PF1-O, and PF1-I . The margins are 4,70; 8,66; 12,62; respectively. To use a TPU command file, you need to specify it somehow. Read the DCL help available online. HELP EDIT/TPU/COMMAND After having correctly specified the TPU command file, to get these procedures to work, once inside EVE, put your cursor inside the paragraph in question. Key in one of the key sequences. Voila, the paragraph is reformatted with the selected margins. After re-formatting each paragraph, your default margins are left at 1 and 79. This may not suit your needs, so you can change that. Another approach would be to alter the code to grab pre-existing left and right margin settings, and restore those after each paragraph is done. .. fred bach ... music at triumf dot c a !/\/\/\/\/\/ This is the code for SYS$LOGIN:TPU$COMMAND.TPU /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ ! This is the file sys$login:tpu$command.tpu The procedures in this file ! are made available to your EVE editing session. (Unless you've defined ! the logical tpu$command to point to something else.) To execute these ! procedures enter the command TPU XXXX (where XXXX is the procedure-name) ! at the EVE "Command:" prompt. ! ! PROCEDURE user_mark_text ! ! This procedure will stick a ">" in front of every line in the current buffer. ! It leaves the cursor in its original position. !Local variables... LOCAL starting_location, numlines, i; !Make note of the current cursor position. starting_location:=MARK (NONE); !How many lines are in the buffer? numlines:=GET_INFO (CURRENT_BUFFER,"record_count"); !For every line in the buffer, go to the beginning of that line and !insert a ">". i:=0; LOOP EXITIF i>=numlines; i:=i+1; POSITION (i); POSITION (LINE_BEGIN); COPY_TEXT (">"); ENDLOOP; !Put the cursor back where we found it. POSITION (starting_location); ENDPROCEDURE; PROCEDURE user_append_signature ! This procedure appends the contents of sys$login:mail.signature to ! the end of the current buffer. !Go to the end of the buffer. POSITION (BUFFER_END); !And include the file. READ_FILE ("sys$login:mail.signature"); ENDPROCEDURE; procedure user_tidy_mail_paragraph set (LEFT_MARGIN, current_buffer, 4); set (RIGHT_MARGIN, current_buffer, 70); eve_fill_paragraph; set (LEFT_MARGIN, current_buffer, 1); set (RIGHT_MARGIN, current_buffer, 79); endprocedure; procedure user_tidy_mail_paragraph_8_66 set (LEFT_MARGIN, current_buffer, 8); set (RIGHT_MARGIN, current_buffer, 66); eve_fill_paragraph; set (LEFT_MARGIN, current_buffer, 1); set (RIGHT_MARGIN, current_buffer, 79); endprocedure; procedure user_tidy_mail_paragraph_12_62 set (LEFT_MARGIN, current_buffer, 12); set (RIGHT_MARGIN, current_buffer, 62); eve_fill_paragraph; set (LEFT_MARGIN, current_buffer, 1); set (RIGHT_MARGIN, current_buffer, 79); endprocedure; PROCEDURE user_enable_mouse_copy ! This procedure sets the mouse to select and insert text from other windows ! 10Feb96 FWB adapted from [.news]vms_tpu_tricks.txt if get_info (screen,"vt300") then SET(MOUSE,OFF); MESSAGE ("Mouse copying ENabled; Mouse cursor-positioning DISabled."); endif; endprocedure; PROCEDURE user_disable_mouse_copy ! This procedure sets the mouse to position the editor cursor ! 10Feb96 FWB adapted from [.news]vms_tpu_tricks.txt if get_info (screen,"vt300") then SET(MOUSE,ON); MESSAGE ("Mouse copying DISabled; Mouse cursor-positioning ENabled."); endif; endprocedure; eve$define_key ("user_tidy_mail_paragraph", KEY_NAME ("p", SHIFT_KEY), "tidy mail paragraph", EVE$X_USER_KEYS); eve$define_key ("user_tidy_mail_paragraph_8_66", KEY_NAME ("o", SHIFT_KEY), "tidy mail paragraph", EVE$X_USER_KEYS); eve$define_key ("user_tidy_mail_paragraph_12_62", KEY_NAME ("i", SHIFT_KEY), "tidy mail paragraph", EVE$X_USER_KEYS); eve$define_key ("user_enable_mouse_copy", KEY_NAME ("m", SHIFT_KEY), "enable mouse copy", EVE$X_USER_KEYS); eve$define_key ("user_disable_mouse_copy", KEY_NAME ("n", SHIFT_KEY), "disable mouse copy", EVE$X_USER_KEYS); !/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:50:31 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Looking for a TPU section that does automatic word wrap Message-ID: Syltrem wrote: > Does anyone know of a TPU section file that would do automatic word wrapping The standard EVE section has a command: SET KEYPAD WPS (yes folks, WPSPLUS in TPU :-) :-) Your can set the margins with GOLD - R (GOLD PF1 on numeric keypad). L for left margin, R for right margin. When margins are set, press return. Then, as you type, the text automatically flows inside those margins. The one caveat is that if you modify an existing paragraph, the text does not reflow automatically, you need to use the FILL command or GOLD 5 Pressing the HELP key displays the WPS keypad descriptions. (5 = Paragraph). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:35:13 -0800 (PST) From: Sue Subject: Re: OpenVMS Blades Webcast Message-ID: On Nov 19, 7:48 am, Kilgal...@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: > In article <4740FE8E.A82B8...@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > > >Suewrote: > >> [snip] > >> The HP group sponsering this is not familiar with the VMS community so > >> they are a little suprised with the amount of people that are > >> registered. Then she told me, "well they will drop out any way and > >> probably will not ask any questions" [snip] > > Suggest her that some people may drop out because the instructions > on how to access her production from a VMS desktop are unclear. I will send her a note. Since the huge amount of folks she works with are PC oriented and have a PC preference that is why the focus. Please tell me what you would like. Sue ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:00:06 -0700 From: Jeff Campbell Subject: Re: OT: Data centre for the Church of Flying Spaghetti Monster Message-ID: <1195498344_2761@sp12lax.superfeed.net> JF Mezei wrote: > Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >> JF Mezei wrote: >>> Since I learned about the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster here >>> on cov, I figured it was fitting to show you a picture of their data >>> centre. >>> >>> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19456050- >> > >> That link leads to "Board does not exist"!! > > The URL is correct. The problem is that many browsers may not include > the dash at the end in the URL. (happened to me when I tried it.) So add > the dash at the end if it isn't copied over and you get to see the FSM > data centre ! JF, If you will enclose the URL in "<>" it will preserve any 'funny' characters as in: At least it works with Firefox. 8-) Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 11:05:29 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: OT: Data centre for the Church of Flying Spaghetti Monster Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 11:00:06 -0800, Jeff Campbell wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: >> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >>> JF Mezei wrote: >>>> Since I learned about the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster here >>>> on cov, I figured it was fitting to show you a picture of their data >>>> centre. >>>> >>>> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19456050- >>> >> >>> That link leads to "Board does not exist"!! >> The URL is correct. The problem is that many browsers may not include >> the dash at the end in the URL. (happened to me when I tried it.) So >> add the dash at the end if it isn't copied over and you get to see the >> FSM data centre ! > JF, > > If you will enclose the URL in "<>" it will preserve any 'funny' > characters as > in: > > > > At least it works with Firefox. 8-) Don't need it with Opera. BTW, I have a hard time believing that picture is a real installation > > Jeff > > -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:49:29 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: OT: Data centre for the Church of Flying Spaghetti Monster Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 006CE68585257398_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" "Tom Linden" wrote on 11/19/2007 02:05:29 PM: > On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 11:00:06 -0800, Jeff Campbell wrote: > > > JF Mezei wrote: > >> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > >>> JF Mezei wrote: > >>>> Since I learned about the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster here > >>>> on cov, I figured it was fitting to show you a picture of their data > >>>> centre. > >>>> > >>>> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19456050- > >>> > >> > >>> That link leads to "Board does not exist"!! > >> The URL is correct. The problem is that many browsers may not include > >> the dash at the end in the URL. (happened to me when I tried it.) So > >> add the dash at the end if it isn't copied over and you get to see the > >> FSM data centre ! > > JF, > > > > If you will enclose the URL in "<>" it will preserve any 'funny' > > characters as > > in: > > > > > > > > At least it works with Firefox. 8-) > Don't need it with Opera. > > BTW, I have a hard time believing that picture is a real installation > > > > Jeff > > > > > Do you live in a bubble ;) ? It's from an IBM ad campaign. > > > -- > PL/I for OpenVMS > www.kednos.com --=_alternative 006CE68585257398_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"



"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.company> wrote on 11/19/2007 02:05:29 PM:

> On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 11:00:06 -0800, Jeff Campbell <n8wxs@arrl.net> wrote:
>
> > JF Mezei wrote:
> >> Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
> >>> JF Mezei wrote:
> >>>> Since I learned about the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster here  
> >>>> on cov, I figured it was fitting to show you a picture of their data  
> >>>> centre.
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19456050-
> >>>
> >>
> >>> That link leads to "Board does not exist"!!
> >>  The URL is correct. The problem is that many browsers may not include  
> >> the dash at the end in the URL. (happened to me when I tried it.) So  
> >> add  the dash at the end if it isn't copied over and you get to see the  
> >> FSM data centre !
> > JF,
> >
> > If you will enclose the URL in "<>" it will preserve any 'funny'  
> > characters as
> > in:
> >
> >     <http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19456050->
> >
> > At least it works with Firefox.  8-)
> Don't need it with Opera.
>
> BTW, I have a hard time believing that picture is a real installation
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
>


Do you live in a bubble  ;) ?  It's from an IBM ad campaign.

>
>
> --
> PL/I for OpenVMS
> www.kednos.com
--=_alternative 006CE68585257398_=-- ------------------------------ Date: 19 Nov 2007 16:02:51 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: OT: Data centre for the Church of Flying Spaghetti Monster Message-ID: In article , "Tom Linden" writes: > > BTW, I have a hard time believing that picture is a real installation I don't. I think I've seen worse. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:49:07 -0500 From: "William Webb" Subject: Re: OT: Data centre for the Church of Flying Spaghetti Monster Message-ID: <8660a3a10711191749u55097c42i7eeb94e9f5d4e276@mail.gmail.com> ------=_Part_22074_31196113.1195523347343 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 19 Nov 2007 16:02:51 -0600, Bob Koehler < koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote: > In article , "Tom Linden" writes: > > > > BTW, I have a hard time believing that picture is a real installation > > I don't. I think I've seen worse. > > I *know* I've seen worse. One place I've spent time decided to get all the orphaned copper out from under the floors of one of its datacenters. It seems that all that redundant cable was getting in the way of things like, well- airflow. They pulled 17 MILES of cable of various types (not to mention vintages) up from underneath that floor. It truly was a sight to behold. WWWebb ------=_Part_22074_31196113.1195523347343 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

On 19 Nov 2007 16:02:51 -0600, Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:
> In article <op.t11zbfvzhv4qyg@murphus>, "Tom Linden" < tom@kednos.company> writes:
> >
> > BTW, I have a hard time believing that picture is a real installation
>
>    I don't.  I think I've seen worse.
>
>

I *know* I've seen worse.

One place I've spent time decided to get all the orphaned copper out from under the floors of one of its datacenters.

It seems that all that redundant cable was getting in the way of things like, well- airflow.

They pulled 17 MILES of cable of various types (not to mention vintages) up from underneath that floor.

It truly was a sight to behold.

WWWebb




------=_Part_22074_31196113.1195523347343-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 07:38:17 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: system constants in COBOL Message-ID: Hi Brian, > in the future. The COLOB compile is thus spared of my oafishness. Good, and take the rest of that brutish hooligan lynch-mob with ya :-) Having said that, if you do get to spend a bit more time with "The Beautiful Language" I think you'll find that it's big plus is that it is simple. (And integrates extremely well with MACRO when need be) But if it doesn't have polymorphic inheritence (and whatever the hell "reflection" is) it's clearly incapable of solving any worthwhile problem. Cheers Richard Maher wrote in message news:ynB%i.5$6S2.0@newsfe09.lga... > In article , "Richard Maher" writes: > > > > > >Hi Brian, > > > >> Is there a way to include such literal values in COBOL? > > > >That is the way that I, and one or two others, do it (and have done for over > >twenty years). For those with the Tier3 Hobbyist kit, you can look through > >the t3$examples directory for .COM and .MAR files that also do compile-time > >ANDing and ORing of various flags. (There is also a copy at > >http://manson.vistech.net/t3$examples/ ) > > Thanks Richard. > > I was helping this shop (a COBOL shop) with a system programming need. > Their programmers did not understand the system service calls so I was > asked to lend a hand. > > I could not find a way to include constants nor could I find constants > to include so I used the Macro mechanism and let the linker handle it. > I only posted here to ask if there was a way (supported) to handle the > constants at compile time (other than hard coding the values). > > > > >The COBOL compiler will be spared your oafish fondling; you don't have to > >code in a language that you don't like; and the customer does not have to > >endure the product of your floundering. Sounds like a win, win, win? > > Well, I hope it will be spared my oafish fondling in the future. Now > that I've shown them how to called a system service with an item list > and I've provided them with a sort of "rosetta stone" showing how to > interpret the documented VMS Usage/Mechanism/Access/Data type argument > descriptions in COBOLeeze, I shouldn't me bothered too much about this > in the future. The COLOB compile is thus spared of my oafishness. > > > > >PS. Almost a whole week of VMS_relevant posts? Have to do something about > >that :-) > > "Today's a day to celebrate, the foe have met their fate." > > -- Peter Gabriel, Supper's Ready > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > > http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 21:00:07 -0000 From: "John Wallace" Subject: Re: Wireless. PCMCIA etc.? Message-ID: <13k3ub3ntohhva1@corp.supernews.com> "Tom Linden" wrote in message news:op.t1zv3nemhv4qyg@murphus.hsd1.ca.comcast.net... > Just saw an ad > http://www.synchrotech.com/products/card-rw_06_p111_p222_elan_pcmcia_pc-card_reader_slot.html > for a PCI card to permit plugin of PCMCIA card, which makes me wonder if > it were possible to > support such a device under VMS and run an 802.11g lan. > -- > PL/I for OpenVMS > www.kednos.com Once upon a time, the answer to "How do I connect box xyz to a WLAN when its OS doesn't have the relevant support?" was "Get a Linksys WET11" or similar (where WET = "wireless ethernet transceiver"), ie a WLAN adapter which connects to the network port on a box which has no WLAN support (eg a game console or similar). I have no idea what today's equivalent of a WET11 is, but perhaps others out there may be more up to date than I am, or may have better suggestions? That's assuming that your interest is (just) getting the VMS box on the WLAN. If your interest is getting VMS support for modern WiFi kit, that's a different kettle of fish altogether. regards John ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.635 ************************