INFO-VAX Sun, 23 Sep 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 519 Contents: Re: Command fails in batch, seems to work at-ed interactively Re: Cutler wins award Re: despair Re: despair Re: despair Re: DS10 - with pedestal BA350+kzpac-xv Re: Little Alpha I learned on is up... Re: MOUNT /ASSIST Re: MOUNT /ASSIST Re: mourning our VMS Alpha systems Re: mourning our VMS Alpha systems Re: mourning our VMS Alpha systems Re: VMS Update Re: Xyplex Terminal Server with VMS Re: Xyplex Terminal Server with VMS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:39:36 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Command fails in batch, seems to work at-ed interactively Message-ID: <46F5D1E8.16ACFB1E@spam.comcast.net> Doug Phillips wrote: > > On Sep 19, 7:12 pm, David J Dachtera > wrote: > > Doug Phillips wrote: > > > > > On Sep 17, 8:34 pm, David J Dachtera > > > wrote: > > > > Doug Phillips wrote: > > > > > > > On Sep 17, 8:26 pm, David J Dachtera > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Doug Phillips wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Sep 17, 11:45 am, norm.raph...@metso.com wrote: > > > > > > > > This code checks for an empty or blanked PostalZip field. > > > > > > > > When run inside the batch, is seems to give a different, incorrect > > > > > > > > result then when the code is extracted to another procedure file > > > > > > > > and run against the renamed data file. > > > > > > > > In this case there is a match and Sever is "1". > > > > > > > > In the nomatch case Sever is "3". > > > > > > > > Here the "no strings matched" sets Sever to "3" indicating a wrong > > > > > > > > result as there should have been a match. > > > > > > > > Why would the same code fail to work and later work on the renamed > > > > > > > > file. (The diff command is to eliminate the trailing spaces first.) > > > > > > > > [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1] > > > > > > > > === Actual log excerpt: > > > > > > > > Sent file JAM317:[CM_PROD.DATA]FRONTIER_ATO.XML.1, 571384 bytes. > > > > > > > > QUIT > > > > > > > > <221 > > > > > > > > $@mfgcom:check_postal.com "JAM317:[CM_PROD.DATA]FRONTIER_ATO.XML;1;" > > > > > > > > $!$ ffile="jamdata:FRONTIER_SHR.XML_2007090603045085;1" > > > > > > > > $ > > > > > > > > ffile=f$search(f$parse("JAMDATA:FRONTIER_SHR.XML_*;",,,,"SYNTAX_ONLY"),3) > > > > > > > > $ if p1 .nes. "" then ffile="JAM317:[CM_PROD.DATA]FRONTIER_ATO.XML;1;" > > > > > > > > $ pipe diff/igno=trail JAM317:[CM_PROD.DATA]FRONTIER_ATO.XML;1; nl: > > > > > > > > > Is the semicolon ";" *after* the version (i.e. .XML;1;) a posting typo > > > > > > > or is it really in your command? > > > > > > > > Interesting thought; however, ... > > > > > > > > DJAS02::DDACHTERA$ pipe diff/nonumb/igno=trail login.com;1; nl: > > > > > > %DCL-W-PARMDEL, invalid parameter delimiter - check use of special characters > > > > > > \;NL\ > > > > > > DJAS02::DDACHTERA$ sh sym $status > > > > > > $STATUS == "%X00038110" > > > > > > > > (VMS V7.3-2, V7.2-2 gives same result interactively.) > > > > > > > > Gives a different message/status. > > > > > > > Yes it does. It pipes the error to the next command, but it doesn't > > > > > display it. The $status is from the last command in the pipe, no? Try > > > > > piping it your example. Here's mine: > > > > > > > .TEST>pipe diff/ignor=trail test.fil;1; nl: /nonum | type sys$pipe > > > > > %DCL-W-PARMDEL, invalid parameter delimiter - check use of special > > > > > characters > > > > > \;NL\ > > > > > .TEST>pipe diff/ignor=trail test.fil;1; nl: /nonum | search sys$pipe > > > > > "whatever" > > > > > %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matched > > > > > > I think my point was that the DCL-W message did not appear in his log segments. > > > > > But it won't! The message is piped as part if the diff output. Try it > > > yourself if you don't believe my test example. > > > > I'm sure it does - it just didn't appear in his log segment. > > > > I'm confused about what point you're trying to make. If you think the > warning message *should* have appeared in his procedure's log segment, > then would you please explain why? > > If you agree that the warning message wouldn't appear in his > procedure's log segment because of the way "pipe ... |" works, then > I'm totally confused by your reply to my post. You seemed to think ("Try it yourself...") that I was challenging your results. Obviously, I did not. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:47:44 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Cutler wins award Message-ID: <46F5D3D0.22602D27@spam.comcast.net> "Alex_nospam_Daniels@themail.co.uk" wrote: > > http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,137076-c,companynews/article.html > > "legend Dave Cutler was awarded the new Bill Gates Award, a technical > award which one blogger dubbed "the new ultra-supreme award..." > > "Cutler helped develop the VAX and VMS operating systems." > > "employees to call him both the "greatest programmer/engineer project > leader they've ever seen" as well as the "angriest and scariest person > they've ever worked for,"" Given what DEC and successors have done to VMS, can you blame him? -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 14:57:17 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 10:35:17 -0700, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article , > "Tom Linden" writes: >> >> Penny-wise, pound-foolish? The development and maintenance of C code is >> more costly. So pay now or pay later. > > Sorry, no basis in fact for that. Might actually be cheaper as the pool > of available C Programmers is considerably higher than say the pool of > available Fortran, COBOL or (gasp) PL/I programmers. And if the shop has > reasonable coding standards, maintenance does not have to be a nightmare. > (I know, having worked in large shops where turnover every 1-3 years is > prett close to 100%.) > > bill > No, I do have a basis for that (1) 41 years of experience and (2) if you compare PL/I and C programs for equivalent functionality, you will find that the C version will have 2 to 3 times as many source language statements. Moreover, since C lacks many of the features built into the PL/I you need to reinvent some wheels and those need testing. -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 03:49:13 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article , > John Santos writes: > >>JF Mezei wrote: >> >>>Ron Johnson wrote: >>> >>> >>>>C's[0] null-terminated strings, lack of bounds checking in arrays >>>>and memxxx functions, and manual heap control are open invitations >>>>to all sorts of nasty bugs. >>> >>> >>> >>>C's flaws are well known. And a good programmer will ensure he doesn't >>>fall into those traps. >>> >>>Yes, C is a two wheeled bike without the training wheels to ensure you >>>don't fall. Other languages still have the training wheels to ensure you >> >>Feh! C is like a 2 wheeled bike without fenders, chain guard or brakes. >> >>And no derailleur - you have to change gears by grabbing the moving chain >>and wrenching it sideways onto a different sprocket. And stop by rubbing >>your hand against the tire or rim, being careful of the spokes. >> >> >> >> >>> don't try to do something which the language designers didn't plan. >>> >>>But that means that you can do things in C that other languages don't >>>let you do. >>> >> >>Like rip your thumbs off. >> >> >> >>>And with the pedantic ANSI C, there is a lot more checking of your >>>program, function definitions etc than ever before. >> >>Welcome to the 1970's. > > > I finally get it. I now completely understand the attitude towards C > here!!! > > > The Fox and the Grapes > > A FAMISHED FOX saw some clusters of ripe black grapes hanging > from a trellised vine. She resorted to all her tricks to get at > them, but wearied herself in vain, for she could not reach them. > At last she turned away, hiding her disappointment and saying: > "The Grapes are sour, and not ripe as I thought." > > > bill > Bzzzt! The grapes are within easy reach. They are also poisonous. -- John Santos Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:27:18 -0700 From: "David P. Murphy" Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: <1190521638.832190.154900@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Sep 22, 12:41 pm, "Tom Linden" wrote: > Penny-wise, pound-foolish? The development and maintenance > of C code is more costly. So pay now or pay later. Ah, absolute claims, what would Usenet be without them? You have a *basis* for your opinion. Fine. It's still just your opinion. I've seen applications that were painlessly developed in C and a pleasure to maintain. I'm also looking at FORTRAN applications which are an absolute nightmare to maintain. Surely the environment --- the programmers, the procedures, the office atmosphere --- are bigger factors in the code of development and maintenance than the language. ok dpm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 01:02:45 +0300 From: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Uusim=E4ki?= Subject: Re: DS10 - with pedestal BA350+kzpac-xv Message-ID: <46f590d2$0$3201$9b536df3@news.fv.fi> Michael Austin wrote: > Uusimäki wrote: >> Michael Austin wrote: >>> Scenario: >>> >>> VMS 7.3 >>> SCSI controller dies. >>> Shelf has 3 mirror sets (w/2 x PSU) >>> >>> KZPAC has been replaced - needs to be configured. >>> Trying to execute ra200rcu - from AlphaBios ->Utilities-> Run a >>> maintenance program. >>> >>> Reads floppy - Screen turns black - then nothing. If you hit any key >>> (or may have not found that magic key yet...) it immediately returns >>> to the AlphaBios menu. >>> >>> I am trying to work this issue remotely, so I cannot tell you every >>> nuance of what happens. >>> If you just type ARC - you don't get any menu at all I would expect >>> to see somthing to the effect of: >>> Boot Menu >>> Boot Windows NT >>> Boot an alternate operating system >>> Run a program >>> Supplementary menu ... >>> Use the arrow keys to select, then press Enter. >>> >>> But you get nothing. Just "hit F2 for AlphaBios" at the bottom. >>> >>> Is this normal for a DS10? >>> >>> Any other ideas on why this is not working? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> I assume you are trying to do it via the serial port. >> In that case you have to run ra200srl. It is a version of the KZP*C >> configuration utility which is meant to be used with a terminal (local >> or remote). With it you can use the key sequences, which you find in >> the other reply. >> If you don't have that version, you'll find it on the firmware CD or >> you can download it from the ftp.digital.com server: >> ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/Alpha/firmware/v7.3/utility/swxcrmgr >> >> Good luck! >> > > > Using console graphics mode. > > After executing ra200rcu - screen turns black - hitting any key just > takes it back to the Alphabios menu. Should it not bring up the KZPAC > menu? > > > When using the graphics console the ra200rcu is the indeed the correct version of the utility. Yes, the RA200 menu should appear, but it takes some time for the utility to poll the PCI buses for the KZP*C('s). When you start the utility, it shows in the upper part of the screen its version and what it has found. When it has found one or more KZP*C's it will display the menu. How long a time did you wait for the menu before you hit the key? Maybe it wasn't ready yet? It takes also some time to read it from the diskette. Are you sure that the utility diskette is fully in order? Have you tested it on another machine? Have you run it earlier successfully from the same diskette? Have you tried to run it from the firmware CD? Does the KZPAC appear normally on the output of ">>> show config"? Do you see any lights on the disks in the disk shelf? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 13:34:23 -0700 From: FrankS Subject: Re: Little Alpha I learned on is up... Message-ID: <1190493263.871673.284830@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com> On Sep 22, 10:36 am, "Paul Raulerson" wrote: > on eBay at this URL. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem > ADME:L:LCA:US:1123> &item=200155289131&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:US:1123 This is the machine you were having problems with the CD-ROM? And you were insisting VMS didn't support the drive? Yet, in the eBay listing you acknowledge that VMS was never qalified for that system at all, let alone the CD-ROM drive. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 22:06:01 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: MOUNT /ASSIST Message-ID: <46F5D819.A0F61EA7@spam.comcast.net> Brad Hamilton wrote: > > Robert Jarratt wrote: > > > > I had a MOUNT command with an implicit /ASSIST in my SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM. > > When I changed the disk around this MOUNT command failed and VMS sent > > messages to the console asking that this be fixed. However I was unable to > > log in to the machine to fix the issue, presumably because the login limit > > had not been opened up. What surprised me though was that I could not log in > > to the console either, and there was no way to do a clean shutdown. > > Fortunately I was able to put the old disk back and then change the MOUNT to > > specify /NOASSIST, so that the startup could complete. > > > > Now this is a hobbyist system so the consequences are irrelevant, but I am > > curious as to how you would get out of this situation in a production > > environment without doing what I was obliged to do. Did I miss something > > (other than not specifying /NOASSIST?) > > I'm curious why the console login didn't work. Two reasons: 1. OPA0: was owned by the STARTUP process, target of SYS$OUTPUT and SYS$ERROR, by default. If you're curious, put SHOW LOGICAL SYS$COMMAND somewhere in the SYSTARTUP_VMS proc. and see what gets displayed. 2. See slide #93 of http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/powerpnt/1065_dachtera.ppt Quote: "Largely undocumented, little known fact: until the SET LOGINS/INTERACTIVE=n command is issued for the first time after a reboot, the job controller will not create interactive processes." That said, PSC's Multinet bypasses this: TELNET sessions are $CREPRC'd by the Master Server (MULTINET_SERVER) process, not the JBC. I don't have access to a TCPware system to research that. Use F$GETJPI( 0, "CREATOR" ) to find the PID of the process which created the current process. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 22:23:59 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: MOUNT /ASSIST Message-ID: <46F5DC4F.984B1DB0@spam.comcast.net> Robert Jarratt wrote: > > I had a MOUNT command with an implicit /ASSIST in my SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM. As you've discovered, not recommended. Use SET NOON and MOUNT/NOASSIST and let it fail - clean it up once you have access to OPA0: -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:50:30 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: mourning our VMS Alpha systems Message-ID: <46F5D476.4C6DC27F@spam.comcast.net> Dirk Munk wrote: > > A couple of days ago I took a SUN engineer and a manager of a very big > customer for a kind of inspection tour in our twin datacenter. The first > part of the tour was without the manager, he came later. > > We saw a big scrapheap of old SUN systems (also newer ones), and we > came along one node of our trusted ES40 VMS cluster. > > The SUN engineer: > "Ah, an Alpha! I never understood why Compaq and HP were so stupid to > ditch the very best CPU architecture around" > > Then we came to the other datacenter, and the manager of the customer > joined us. And after a while we came to the second node of our VMS cluster. > > The manager: > "Ah, VMS! The best operating system ever designed. I've worked with it. > So beautiful and well constructed" > > The same company ditched all the VMS systems after those infamous > statements that "Digital / Compaq / HP will be more than happy to assist > you moving to Windows-NT / Tru64 / HP-UX". And they had lots of them, > now all replaced by SUN systems. > > Sic transit gloria mundi! Imagine how justing they feel about their earlier decision now that HP is going around to the ISVs pushing UX instead of VMS on Itanic (standard disclaimer applies: Prove Me Wrong!). -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 22:22:13 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: mourning our VMS Alpha systems Message-ID: <46F5DBE5.2B494537@spam.comcast.net> David J Dachtera wrote: > > Dirk Munk wrote: > > > > A couple of days ago I took a SUN engineer and a manager of a very big > > customer for a kind of inspection tour in our twin datacenter. The first > > part of the tour was without the manager, he came later. > > > > We saw a big scrapheap of old SUN systems (also newer ones), and we > > came along one node of our trusted ES40 VMS cluster. > > > > The SUN engineer: > > "Ah, an Alpha! I never understood why Compaq and HP were so stupid to > > ditch the very best CPU architecture around" > > > > Then we came to the other datacenter, and the manager of the customer > > joined us. And after a while we came to the second node of our VMS cluster. > > > > The manager: > > "Ah, VMS! The best operating system ever designed. I've worked with it. > > So beautiful and well constructed" > > > > The same company ditched all the VMS systems after those infamous > > statements that "Digital / Compaq / HP will be more than happy to assist > > you moving to Windows-NT / Tru64 / HP-UX". And they had lots of them, > > now all replaced by SUN systems. > > > > Sic transit gloria mundi! > > Imagine how justing s/b: "justified" - brain cramp... > they feel about their earlier decision now that HP is going > around to the ISVs pushing UX instead of VMS on Itanic (standard disclaimer > applies: Prove Me Wrong!). -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 20:38:03 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: mourning our VMS Alpha systems Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 20:22:13 -0700, David J Dachtera wrote: > David J Dachtera wrote: >> >> Dirk Munk wrote: >> > >> > A couple of days ago I took a SUN engineer and a manager of a very big >> > customer for a kind of inspection tour in our twin datacenter. The >> first >> > part of the tour was without the manager, he came later. >> > >> > We saw a big scrapheap of old SUN systems (also newer ones), and we >> > came along one node of our trusted ES40 VMS cluster. >> > >> > The SUN engineer: >> > "Ah, an Alpha! I never understood why Compaq and HP were so stupid to >> > ditch the very best CPU architecture around" He must have been referring to the VAX, Alpha was second (at best) to Power >> > >> > Then we came to the other datacenter, and the manager of the customer >> > joined us. And after a while we came to the second node of our VMS >> cluster. >> > >> > The manager: >> > "Ah, VMS! The best operating system ever designed. I've worked with >> it. >> > So beautiful and well constructed" >> > >> > The same company ditched all the VMS systems after those infamous >> > statements that "Digital / Compaq / HP will be more than happy to >> assist >> > you moving to Windows-NT / Tru64 / HP-UX". And they had lots of them, >> > now all replaced by SUN systems. >> > >> > Sic transit gloria mundi! >> >> Imagine how justing > > s/b: "justified" - brain cramp... > >> they feel about their earlier decision now that HP is going >> around to the ISVs pushing UX instead of VMS on Itanic (standard >> disclaimer >> applies: Prove Me Wrong!). > -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 21:46:48 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: VMS Update Message-ID: <46F5D398.5288617B@spam.comcast.net> Neil Rieck wrote: > > On Sep 21, 8:40 pm, Sue wrote: > > Dear Newsgroup, > > > > The urls do work but in the newsgroup they wrap wierd. I have tried > > not to include folks personal details for obvious reasons which I do > > incllude in the email. > > > > Hi Sue, > > With regard to wrapping URL's etc I have a suggestion for readers of > this newsgroup. > > For many years I had accessed "comp.os.vms" using "Outlook Express" > until my ISP declared that newsgroups were dead so they would be > shutting down port 119. Consider inviting your ISP back into the 21st Century. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 15:13:22 -0700 From: "Andy Bustamante" Subject: Re: Xyplex Terminal Server with VMS Message-ID: <4kgJi.37$ih1.36@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com> I used to have racks of these connecting modems to VAX an Alphaservers. In a previous position, I left a single Xyplex connected to network and HSG ports. -- Andy Bustamante (Remove the ascii 95's to mail a reply) "Tom Linden" wrote in message news:op.tyy2s4gshv4qyg@murphus... > Any of you using one of these? The unit I got doesn't have the card with > the > Nbase software. It can also be boot loaded from Alpha or VAX VMS. Any of > you doing > that? > > -- > PL/I for OpenVMS > www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 15:56:09 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Xyplex Terminal Server with VMS Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 15:13:22 -0700, Andy Bustamante wrote: > I used to have racks of these connecting modems to VAX an Alphaservers. > In > a previous position, I left a single Xyplex connected to network and HSG > ports. > I am connecting to Alphas, VAXen, Itania, Cisco switches and routers, HSG80. Took a few tries to get the RJ45-DB9 adaters right. You still doing the mls stuff? -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.519 ************************