INFO-VAX Tue, 18 Sep 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 510 Contents: Re: Command fails in batch, seems to work at-ed interactively Re: Command fails in batch, seems to work at-ed interactively Re: Command fails in batch, seems to work at-ed interactively Re: despair Re: despair Re: despair Re: despair Re: despair Re: despair Re: despair Re: despair Re: despair Re: despair Re: despair Re: despair Re: despair Re: Hypervisor Re: Hypervisor Re: Hypervisor Re: Hypervisor Re: Hypervisor Re: Hypervisor Re: Hypervisor Impact VMS version on CPU speed Re: node and port alloclass, cannot add a node to the cluster Re: node and port alloclass, cannot add a node to the cluster Re: node and port alloclass, cannot add a node to the cluster Re: node and port alloclass, cannot add a node to the cluster OPC on OpenVMS Re: OPC on OpenVMS Re: OPC on OpenVMS Re: OPC on OpenVMS Re: OPC on OpenVMS Re: OPC on OpenVMS Re: OPC on OpenVMS Re: OPC on OpenVMS Re: OPC on OpenVMS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:10:03 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Command fails in batch, seems to work at-ed interactively Message-ID: In article <46EF2718.145A2365@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > > >norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: >> [snip] > >O.K. Here is the part I don't get: > >> $ pipe diff/igno=trail JAM317:[CM_PROD.DATA]FRONTIER_ATO.XML;1; nl: /nonumb | > >What is the purpose of comparing the file to the contents of the null device? >("TYPE filespec" would seem a better choice, or just SEARCH it directly without >the first pipeline segment.) I've seen this done as a way to number lines of a file but the /nonumb would defeat that. Also the FRONTIER_ATO.XML;1; (last ;) would cause DIFF to cough up %DIFF-F-OPENIN, error opening {the file} as input -RMS-F-SYN, file specification syntax error -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 05:14:47 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: Command fails in batch, seems to work at-ed interactively Message-ID: <1190117687.009815.265870@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Sep 17, 9:17 pm, David J Dachtera wrote: > norm.raph...@metso.com wrote: > > [snip] > > O.K. Here is the part I don't get: > > > $ pipe diff/igno=trail JAM317:[CM_PROD.DATA]FRONTIER_ATO.XML;1; nl: /nonumb | > > What is the purpose of comparing the file to the contents of the null device? > ("TYPE filespec" would seem a better choice, or just SEARCH it directly without > the first pipeline segment.) He mentioned the purpose in his first post. > > Any chance this is confusing something downstream in the pipeline, but only in > batch? No, it's the extra semicolon that only occurs in the file-spec before the rename. > > -- > David J Dachtera [...] AEF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:54:04 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: Command fails in batch, seems to work at-ed interactively Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0051D9D68525735A_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Doug Phillips wrote on 09/17/2007 06:43:36 PM: > On Sep 17, 11:45 am, norm.raph...@metso.com wrote: > > This code checks for an empty or blanked PostalZip field. > > When run inside the batch, is seems to give a different, incorrect > > result then when the code is extracted to another procedure file > > and run against the renamed data file. > > In this case there is a match and Sever is "1". > > In the nomatch case Sever is "3". > > Here the "no strings matched" sets Sever to "3" indicating a wrong > > result as there should have been a match. > > Why would the same code fail to work and later work on the renamed > > file. (The diff command is to eliminate the trailing spaces first.) > > [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1] > > === Actual log excerpt: > > Sent file JAM317:[CM_PROD.DATA]FRONTIER_ATO.XML.1, 571384 bytes. > > QUIT > > <221 > > $@mfgcom:check_postal.com "JAM317:[CM_PROD.DATA]FRONTIER_ATO.XML;1;" > > $!$ ffile="jamdata:FRONTIER_SHR.XML_2007090603045085;1" > > $ > > ffile=f$search(f$parse("JAMDATA:FRONTIER_SHR.XML_*;",,,,"SYNTAX_ONLY"),3) > > $ if p1 .nes. "" then ffile="JAM317:[CM_PROD.DATA]FRONTIER_ATO.XML;1;" > > $ pipe diff/igno=trail JAM317:[CM_PROD.DATA]FRONTIER_ATO.XML;1; nl: > > > Is the semicolon ";" *after* the version (i.e. .XML;1;) a posting typo > or is it really in your command? > > Thanks Doug. Thanks also to the others who continued this discussion (Yes, I read them all, just not until now. As I said initially and was reported, "(The diff command is to eliminate the trailing spaces first.) " This is merely because the input records are 300 bytes, mostly trailing blanks, and while testing it was hard to read them on an 80-byte screen. The problem is indeed the extra ";" and it was introduced as a typo in the calling procedure, thusly: $@mfgcom:check_postal.com "''ifile;" That obviously should read: $@mfgcom:check_postal.com "''ifile'" Oddly it does not yield any error as the ";" acts as a delimiter and DCL is (here, anyway) too forgiving. That goes for calling the error a warning, also, as was stated in a later post. Further: $ type tryit.com $ ifile=test.dat $ @mfgcom:check_postal.com "''ifile;" $ @dcl_check.com0 tryit.com -*- Charlie Hammond's unsupported DCL checker (Version V3.4) -*- Checking file TRYIT.COM;1 18-SEP-2007 10:50:42.80 Checking for DCL_CHECK$ logicals... "DCL_CHECK$SUPPRESS_BL" = "TRUE" "DCL_CHECK$SUPPRESS_CCN" = "TRUE" "DCL_CHECK$SUPPRESS_CLD" = "TRUE" "DCL_CHECK$SUPPRESS_LFF" = "TRUE" "DCL_CHECK$SUPPRESS_LOD" = "TRUE" Starting Pass 1 -- 18-SEP-2007 10:50:43.44 ... Starting Pass 2 -- 18-SEP-2007 10:50:43.56 ... Starting Pass 3 -- 18-SEP-2007 10:50:43.59 ... Procedure contains: 2 total lines 2 code lines (including 0 lines (0%) w/ comments) 0 additional continuation lines 0 lines w/i $DECK/$EOD pairs 0 comment only lines (0% of code lines) 0 blank lines 1 diagnostics LINE CODE --DIAGNOSTIC MESSAGE-- 2 PSQ-W possible error using single-quote (') in quoted string -*- END OF LISTING -*- 18-SEP-2007 10:50:44.20 Gives only a warning, also, but would have made me catch it if I followed my own good processes when making the edit. The pipe did hide the error in practice, and I did not go back far enough to spot the error. Thanks again for being my eyes. It had to be something like that. -Norm --=_alternative 0051D9D68525735A_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"



Doug Phillips <dphill46@netscape.net> wrote on 09/17/2007 06:43:36 PM:

> On Sep 17, 11:45 am, norm.raph...@metso.com wrote:
> > This code checks for an empty or blanked PostalZip field.
> > When run inside the batch, is seems to give a different, incorrect
> > result then when the code is extracted to another procedure file
> > and run against the renamed data file.
> > In this case there is a match and Sever is "1".
> > In the nomatch case Sever is "3".
> > Here the "no strings matched" sets Sever to "3" indicating a wrong
> > result as there should have been a match.
> > Why would the same code fail to work and later work on the renamed
> > file.  (The diff command is to eliminate the trailing spaces first.)
> > [OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1]
> > === Actual log excerpt:
> > Sent file JAM317:[CM_PROD.DATA]FRONTIER_ATO.XML.1, 571384 bytes.
> > QUIT
> > <221
> > $@mfgcom:check_postal.com "JAM317:[CM_PROD.DATA]FRONTIER_ATO.XML;1;"
> > $!$ ffile="jamdata:FRONTIER_SHR.XML_2007090603045085;1"
> > $
> > ffile=f$search(f$parse("JAMDATA:FRONTIER_SHR.XML_*;",,,,"SYNTAX_ONLY"),3)
> > $ if p1 .nes. "" then ffile="JAM317:[CM_PROD.DATA]FRONTIER_ATO.XML;1;"
> > $ pipe diff/igno=trail JAM317:[CM_PROD.DATA]FRONTIER_ATO.XML;1;  nl:
>
>
> Is the semicolon ";" *after* the version (i.e. .XML;1;) a posting typo
> or is it really in your command?
>
>
Thanks Doug.  Thanks also to the others who continued this discussion (Yes,

I read them all, just not until now.  As I said initially and was reported,
"(The diff command is to eliminate the trailing spaces first.) "  This is
merely because the input records are 300 bytes, mostly trailing blanks, and
while testing it was hard to read them on an 80-byte screen.

The problem is indeed the extra ";" and it was introduced as a typo in the
calling procedure, thusly: $@mfgcom:check_postal.com "''ifile;"
That obviously should read: $@mfgcom:check_postal.com "''ifile'"
Oddly it does not yield any error as the ";" acts as a delimiter and
DCL is (here, anyway) too forgiving.  That goes for calling the error a
warning, also, as was stated in a later post.

Further:

$ type tryit.com
$ ifile=test.dat
$ @mfgcom:check_postal.com "''ifile;"
$ @dcl_check.com0 tryit.com

-*- Charlie Hammond's unsupported DCL checker (Version V3.4) -*-
Checking file TRYIT.COM;1
18-SEP-2007 10:50:42.80

Checking for DCL_CHECK$ logicals...
  "DCL_CHECK$SUPPRESS_BL" = "TRUE"
  "DCL_CHECK$SUPPRESS_CCN" = "TRUE"
  "DCL_CHECK$SUPPRESS_CLD" = "TRUE"
  "DCL_CHECK$SUPPRESS_LFF" = "TRUE"
  "DCL_CHECK$SUPPRESS_LOD" = "TRUE"

Starting Pass 1 -- 18-SEP-2007 10:50:43.44 ...
Starting Pass 2 -- 18-SEP-2007 10:50:43.56 ...
Starting Pass 3 -- 18-SEP-2007 10:50:43.59 ...

Procedure contains:      2 total lines
                         2 code lines (including 0 lines (0%) w/ comments)
                         0 additional continuation lines
                         0 lines w/i $DECK/$EOD pairs
                         0 comment only lines (0% of code lines)
                         0 blank lines
                         1 diagnostics

 LINE  CODE  --DIAGNOSTIC MESSAGE--

    2  PSQ-W  possible error using single-quote (') in quoted string

-*- END OF LISTING -*-   18-SEP-2007 10:50:44.20

Gives only a warning, also, but would have made me catch it if I
followed my own good processes when making the edit.

The pipe did hide the error in practice, and I did not go back far
enough to spot the error.

Thanks again for being my eyes.  It had to be something like that.

-Norm --=_alternative 0051D9D68525735A_=-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 05:28:22 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: <1190118502.427405.196310@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Sep 16, 5:06 pm, "David P. Murphy" wrote: > On Sep 16, 8:39 am, AEF wrote: > > > > > On Sep 15, 10:47 pm, "David P. Murphy" wrote: > >> followed by the inevitable > > >> %SYSTEM-F-DEVMOUNT, device is already mounted > > >> and immediately thereafter > > >> %BACKUP-F-POSITERR, error positioning $1$MUA400:[000000]DAILY.BCK; > >> -SYSTEM-F-SERIOUSEXCP, serious exception detected by TMSCP > >> controller > > AHA!!!!! Withholding evidence!!! Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy! And you > > complain about the code author!!! ... HAH! > > > This is like when Tom and Ray on Car Talk are trying to diagnose a > > caller's car problems and after struggling for 5 minutes, the caller > > finally mentions, "Oh, by the way, the engine check light came on" or > > "It only does it when..." > > No, it's much more like getting dozens of errors from a compiler > when they're all due to a single missing variable declaration. > They're called "fallout errors", because they don't mean a damn > and disappear once you fix the actual problem upstream . . . > just like the BACKUP fatal messages are completely misleading > and would not have occurred if the command procedure had properly > handled either the failed ALLOCATE or INITIALIZE commands. > > In what way do you consider these messages "evidence"? The warning > should have been enough for anyone. > > ok > dpm I meant the fact that you didn't tell us that there was a problem. IOW, I was referring to all the error messages, not just the last few error messages. It seems to me that it was mostly the result of someone having used the tape drive he shouldn't have, which, because even if the procedure were written correctly the backup still would not have been done, suggests that this ON ERROR THEN CONTINUE is not the biggest problem at your site! What does it matter? If your housekeeper or housemate or whoever left the door unlocked when he or she left, does it matter if someone robbed your house or apt. as a result? I say, YES! Does it matter if you live in a high crime neighborhood or not? I say, YES! If you live in The Plains, OH, you don't need to put a club on your steering wheel. This is not true in a big city! So don't complain about the lack of a club if you live in The Plains. You didn't tell us where you lived, so to speak. Yes, it's still bad programming and should be fixed. How bad a disaster it was depends on what happened to the tape, what was on the tape, what was missed in the thwarted backup operation, and whether any backups ever succeeded at this site! AEF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:19:40 -0000 From: "David P. Murphy" Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: <1190121580.776857.246230@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com> On Sep 18, 8:28 am, AEF wrote: > I meant the fact that you didn't tell us that there was a problem. > IOW, I was referring to all the error messages, not just the last few > error messages. Surely an experienced person such as yourself saw them coming. > It seems to me that it was mostly the result of someone having used > the tape drive he shouldn't have, which, because even if the procedure > were written correctly the backup still would not have been done, > suggests that this ON ERROR THEN CONTINUE is not the biggest problem > at your site! > > What does it matter? $ ON WARNING THEN GOTO ABORT $ ALLOCATE ... $ INIT ... $ BACKUP ... $ DEALLOCATE ... $ LOGOUT $! $ ABORT: $ MAIL /SUBJECT="URGENT! BACKUP FAILED!" NL: OPERATOR $ LOGOUT That's why. If the procedure is written correctly, then a human is notified of the inevitable problem. > If your housekeeper or housemate or whoever left the door unlocked > when he or she left, does it matter if someone robbed your house or > apt. as a result? I say, YES! Does it matter if you live in a high > crime neighborhood or not? I say, YES! I can only interpret that paragraph to mean that you need a reason to write code correctly, as otherwise it's not worth your time. Therefore I stand by my earlier statement of not wanting to work with you. > If you live in The Plains, OH, you don't need to put a club on your > steering wheel. This is not true in a big city! So don't complain > about the lack of a club if you live in The Plains. You didn't tell us > where you lived, so to speak. Yes, it's still bad programming and > should be fixed. How bad a disaster it was depends on what happened to > the tape, what was on the tape, what was missed in the thwarted backup > operation, and whether any backups ever succeeded at this site! "I didn't bother adding error handling to that code because I realized that it would only be a *small* disaster if it failed." ok dpm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:33:44 -0000 From: "David P. Murphy" Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: <1190122424.505356.22810@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com> On Sep 18, 8:28 am, AEF wrote: > If you live in The Plains, OH, you don't need to put a club on > your steering wheel. 2004 Crime Statistics Athens County, OH % population affected Motor Vehicle Theft = 0.08% Given a population of 64,000 I conclude that 51 cars were stolen during 2004. I guess the trick is knowing whether or not you are one of the 63,949 people who *didn't* need to put a club on their steering wheel! Another way to look at it is if you're running that batch job every night on three nodes, your tolerance is having it fail once per year. It's good to know your limits. ok dpm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:34:28 -0000 From: "David P. Murphy" Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: <1190122468.615240.195310@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Sep 18, 8:28 am, AEF wrote: > If you live in The Plains, OH, you don't need to put a club on > your steering wheel. 2004 Crime Statistics Athens County, OH % population affected Motor Vehicle Theft = 0.08% Given a population of 64,000 I conclude that 51 cars were stolen during 2004. I guess the trick is knowing whether or not you are one of the 63,949 people who *didn't* need to put a club on their steering wheel! Another way to look at it is if you're running that batch job every night on three nodes, your tolerance is having it fail once per year. It's good to know your limits. ok dpm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 06:51:47 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: <1190123507.139314.131450@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com> On Sep 18, 9:19 am, "David P. Murphy" wrote: > On Sep 18, 8:28 am, AEF wrote: > > > I meant the fact that you didn't tell us that there was a problem. > > IOW, I was referring to all the error messages, not just the last few > > error messages. > > Surely an experienced person such as yourself saw them coming. Yes, but what actually happens matters. > > It seems to me that it was mostly the result of someone having used > > the tape drive he shouldn't have, which, because even if the procedure > > were written correctly the backup still would not have been done, > > suggests that this ON ERROR THEN CONTINUE is not the biggest problem > > at your site! > > > What does it matter? > > $ ON WARNING THEN GOTO ABORT > $ ALLOCATE ... > $ INIT ... > $ BACKUP ... > $ DEALLOCATE ... > $ LOGOUT > $! > $ ABORT: > $ MAIL /SUBJECT="URGENT! BACKUP FAILED!" NL: OPERATOR > $ LOGOUT > > That's why. If the procedure is written correctly, then a human > is notified of the inevitable problem. Based on what we know about your site, no one would have ever read the mail. The problem at your site is primarily something that is not curable by even the best code. And even if an operator did read it, at this site he or she probably would ignore it. > > If your housekeeper or housemate or whoever left the door unlocked > > when he or she left, does it matter if someone robbed your house or > > apt. as a result? I say, YES! Does it matter if you live in a high > > crime neighborhood or not? I say, YES! > > I can only interpret that paragraph to mean that you need a reason > to write code correctly, as otherwise it's not worth your time. You don't get it. > Therefore I stand by my earlier statement of not wanting to work with > you. I'm puzzled by this statement. It is not a logical conclusion based on our discussion. Regardless, you need to take an economics course. You do what it's worth to do. Would you spend thousands of dollars in protection and insurance to safeguard a thirty-dollar blender? I think not! > > > If you live in The Plains, OH, you don't need to put a club on your > > steering wheel. This is not true in a big city! So don't complain > > about the lack of a club if you live in The Plains. You didn't tell us > > where you lived, so to speak. Yes, it's still bad programming and > > should be fixed. How bad a disaster it was depends on what happened to > > the tape, what was on the tape, what was missed in the thwarted backup > > operation, and whether any backups ever succeeded at this site! > > "I didn't bother adding error handling to that code because > I realized that it would only be a *small* disaster if it failed." You missed the point, you still don't get it, and you'll never get it. Let me know how it goes when you put that bank-safe-door-lock on your bathroom, and its effect on your net worth! > > ok > dpm AEF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:12:37 -0000 From: "David P. Murphy" Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: <1190124757.198225.153450@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> On Sep 18, 9:51 am, AEF wrote: >> Surely an experienced person such as yourself saw them coming. > Yes, but what actually happens matters. No, actually, it does not. What matters _when you're coding_ is the *potential* of what *might* happen. A good programmer assumes that problems will occur. Whether or not they ever do is completely beside the point. > Regardless, you need to take an economics course. You do what it's > worth to do. Would you spend thousands of dollars in protection and > insurance to safeguard a thirty-dollar blender? I think not! You are saying that a backup procedure might not be worth the time it takes to add a few lines of code for error handling. I'm saying the question should never even arise. Why you are valuing a backup at $30 while valuing a few lines of code at > $2000 is beyond me. ok dpm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:34:11 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: <1190126051.826859.131010@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Sep 18, 10:12 am, "David P. Murphy" wrote: > On Sep 18, 9:51 am, AEF wrote: > > >> Surely an experienced person such as yourself saw them coming. > > Yes, but what actually happens matters. > > No, actually, it does not. What matters _when you're coding_ > is the *potential* of what *might* happen. A good programmer > assumes that problems will occur. Whether or not they ever do > is completely beside the point. How upset you get about it, is. And when no one reads the mail, what good has it done? This is the second time I've had to make this point. > > > Regardless, you need to take an economics course. You do what it's > > worth to do. Would you spend thousands of dollars in protection and > > insurance to safeguard a thirty-dollar blender? I think not! > > You are saying that a backup procedure might not be worth > the time it takes to add a few lines of code for error handling. > I'm saying the question should never even arise. I said it was bad code. I said to fix the bloody code. What more do you want? And something _did_ go wrong and it's not the end of the world. So relax already. No one really seems to care at your site. > Why you are valuing a backup at $30 while valuing a few lines > of code at > $2000 is beyond me. I was giving a hypothetical example for the general case because it seemed to me you were arguing to actually do silly things like that, in general. > ok > dpm Not ok. :-) AEF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:47:06 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: <1190126826.041572.204740@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com> On Sep 18, 9:33 am, "David P. Murphy" wrote: > On Sep 18, 8:28 am, AEF wrote: > > > If you live in The Plains, OH, you don't need to put a club on > > your steering wheel. > > 2004 Crime Statistics > Athens County, OH > % population affected > Motor Vehicle Theft = 0.08% > > Given a population of 64,000 I conclude that 51 cars were > stolen during 2004. I guess the trick is knowing whether > or not you are one of the 63,949 people who *didn't* need > to put a club on their steering wheel! And how many of these stolen cars were in The Plains? Is your car even something worth stealing? Etc., etc. At these odds I'd rather not bother with the Club. Do you carry a gun around to protect yourself from being mugged? How do you know you're one of the lucky people who won't get mugged? Are you protecting yourself from Al Qaeda? Did you write some code for that? ;-) Etc. There is such a thing as cost-benefit analysis. With the odds you gave for Athens county, I'd pass on the Club. There is always risk, and you do what's reasonable given the case. In your case, I'd tell mgmt. that the code needs to be fixed and, perhaps more importantly, some data center rules need to be rewritten or enforced or whatever it takes to stop people from loading their personal tapes into the drive used for system backups. > Another way to look at it is if you're running that batch job > every night on three nodes, your tolerance is having it fail > once per year. It's good to know your limits. And one failed backup a year is a disaster? It in part depends on what you're backing up. Apparently, at your place, a nightly failure is acceptable. If a once-a-year backup failure is a disaster at your site, you need to do a hell of a lot more than what you did in your posted fixed-up example!!! Could it be, like at my site, that the most critical files are separately copied to another system far away in case of backup failure or disaster so that the tape backup is partly just a precaution? At your place, fixing the code will still not fix the problem. You should be more concerned about that. You're being penny-wise and pound- foolish. > ok > dpm AEF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 08:11:24 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: <1190128284.178297.247170@e34g2000pro.googlegroups.com> On Sep 18, 9:19 am, "David P. Murphy" wrote: > On Sep 18, 8:28 am, AEF wrote: > > > I meant the fact that you didn't tell us that there was a problem. > > IOW, I was referring to all the error messages, not just the last few > > error messages. > > Surely an experienced person such as yourself saw them coming. > > > It seems to me that it was mostly the result of someone having used > > the tape drive he shouldn't have, which, because even if the procedure > > were written correctly the backup still would not have been done, > > suggests that this ON ERROR THEN CONTINUE is not the biggest problem > > at your site! > > > What does it matter? > > $ ON WARNING THEN GOTO ABORT > $ ALLOCATE ... > $ INIT ... > $ BACKUP ... > $ DEALLOCATE ... > $ LOGOUT > $! > $ ABORT: > $ MAIL /SUBJECT="URGENT! BACKUP FAILED!" NL: OPERATOR > $ LOGOUT > > That's why. If the procedure is written correctly, then a human > is notified of the inevitable problem. This code doesn't even meet your own standards. Suppose MAIL fails. Then it will go to the ABORT label and run MAIL again. In that case, you'll be depending on the default error handler, ON ERROR THEN EXIT, which will finally end it, and you'll be depending on LOGINOUT.EXE to deallocate your drive. And where is your cleanup! You didn't check if the drive is allocated in the ABORT section, so again(!) you're depending on LOGOUT to deallocate your drive. Horrors! [...] > I didn't bother adding error handling to that code because > I realized that it would only be a *small* disaster if it failed." If the result with correct programming is the same as with bad programming, what does it matter? You should still fix the code and fix the operations staff. Both need to be fixed in your case. I SAID TO FIX THE BLOODY CODE. HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS. AND WARNING, I'VE GOT A LOT MORE UPPER CASE LETTERS IN MY ARSENEL. ALMOST UNLIMITED, IN FACT! AND FIXING THE CODE STILL DOESN'T GET YOUR BACKUP DONE IF SOME FOOL IS USING THE DRIVE TO BACKUP HIS STUPID VIDEO GAMES OR WHAT NOT DURING SYSTEM-BACKUP TIME. Besides, he did have error handling code: ON ERROR THEN CONTINUE. Yes, it's bad, but it's still error handling. And I suspect that whoever put it there thought it would act more like SET NOON. [...] > ok > dpm ------------------------------ Date: 18 Sep 2007 15:46:45 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: <5laa75F6nbibU1@mid.individual.net> In article <1190128284.178297.247170@e34g2000pro.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > On Sep 18, 9:19 am, "David P. Murphy" wrote: >> On Sep 18, 8:28 am, AEF wrote: >> >> > I meant the fact that you didn't tell us that there was a problem. >> > IOW, I was referring to all the error messages, not just the last few >> > error messages. >> >> Surely an experienced person such as yourself saw them coming. >> >> > It seems to me that it was mostly the result of someone having used >> > the tape drive he shouldn't have, which, because even if the procedure >> > were written correctly the backup still would not have been done, >> > suggests that this ON ERROR THEN CONTINUE is not the biggest problem >> > at your site! >> >> > What does it matter? >> >> $ ON WARNING THEN GOTO ABORT >> $ ALLOCATE ... >> $ INIT ... >> $ BACKUP ... >> $ DEALLOCATE ... >> $ LOGOUT >> $! >> $ ABORT: >> $ MAIL /SUBJECT="URGENT! BACKUP FAILED!" NL: OPERATOR >> $ LOGOUT >> >> That's why. If the procedure is written correctly, then a human >> is notified of the inevitable problem. > > This code doesn't even meet your own standards. Suppose MAIL fails. > Then it will go to the ABORT label and run MAIL again. In that case, > you'll be depending on the default error handler, ON ERROR THEN EXIT, > which will finally end it, and you'll be depending on LOGINOUT.EXE to > deallocate your drive. > > And where is your cleanup! You didn't check if the drive is allocated > in the ABORT section, so again(!) you're depending on LOGOUT to > deallocate your drive. Horrors! > > [...] > >> I didn't bother adding error handling to that code because >> I realized that it would only be a *small* disaster if it failed." > > If the result with correct programming is the same as with bad > programming, what does it matter? You should still fix the code and > fix the operations staff. Both need to be fixed in your case. > > I SAID TO FIX THE BLOODY CODE. HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS. > AND WARNING, I'VE GOT A LOT MORE UPPER CASE LETTERS IN MY ARSENEL. > ALMOST UNLIMITED, IN FACT! AND FIXING THE CODE STILL DOESN'T GET YOUR > BACKUP DONE IF SOME FOOL IS USING THE DRIVE TO BACKUP HIS STUPID VIDEO > GAMES OR WHAT NOT DURING SYSTEM-BACKUP TIME. > > Besides, he did have error handling code: ON ERROR THEN CONTINUE. Yes, > it's bad, but it's still error handling. And I suspect that whoever > put it there thought it would act more like SET NOON. > Grampa, tell me again about how bad all Unix programmers were and how great all VMS programmers were. :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 18 Sep 2007 12:14:43 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: In article <1190128284.178297.247170@e34g2000pro.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > > This code doesn't even meet your own standards. Suppose MAIL fails. > Then it will go to the ABORT label and run MAIL again. In that case, > you'll be depending on the default error handler, ON ERROR THEN EXIT, > which will finally end it, and you'll be depending on LOGINOUT.EXE to > deallocate your drive. No it won't. The "ON" statement is good once, after which a failure of MAIL would follow default behaviour. Since he isn't showing any other path to the MAIL statement there can be no loop in the code he's shown. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:26:53 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: <1190136413.622516.244680@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Sep 18, 1:14 pm, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article <1190128284.178297.247...@e34g2000pro.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > > > > > This code doesn't even meet your own standards. Suppose MAIL fails. > > Then it will go to the ABORT label and run MAIL again. In that case, > > you'll be depending on the default error handler, ON ERROR THEN EXIT, > > which will finally end it, and you'll be depending on LOGINOUT.EXE to > > deallocate your drive. > > No it won't. The "ON" statement is good once, after which a failure > of MAIL would follow default behaviour. Since he isn't showing any > other path to the MAIL statement there can be no loop in the code > he's shown. Yeah, you're right. I posted in haste and waste. (Thanks for the catch!) But it still won't deallocate or dismount his tape if needed. And he made a BIG FUSS over not depending on LOGOUT to deallocate your drive. And he has no DISMOUNT command whatsoever. And he's depending on BACKUP to MOUNT the tape, most or all of which are big no-no's according to Mr. Murphy. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:29:46 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: despair Message-ID: <1190136586.142557.79670@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com> On Sep 18, 11:46 am, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article <1190128284.178297.247...@e34g2000pro.googlegroups.com>, > AEF writes: > > > > > On Sep 18, 9:19 am, "David P. Murphy" wrote: > >> On Sep 18, 8:28 am, AEF wrote: > > >> > I meant the fact that you didn't tell us that there was a problem. > >> > IOW, I was referring to all the error messages, not just the last few > >> > error messages. > > >> Surely an experienced person such as yourself saw them coming. > > >> > It seems to me that it was mostly the result of someone having used > >> > the tape drive he shouldn't have, which, because even if the procedure > >> > were written correctly the backup still would not have been done, > >> > suggests that this ON ERROR THEN CONTINUE is not the biggest problem > >> > at your site! > > >> > What does it matter? > > >> $ ON WARNING THEN GOTO ABORT > >> $ ALLOCATE ... > >> $ INIT ... > >> $ BACKUP ... > >> $ DEALLOCATE ... > >> $ LOGOUT > >> $! > >> $ ABORT: > >> $ MAIL /SUBJECT="URGENT! BACKUP FAILED!" NL: OPERATOR > >> $ LOGOUT > > >> That's why. If the procedure is written correctly, then a human > >> is notified of the inevitable problem. > > > This code doesn't even meet your own standards. Suppose MAIL fails. > > Then it will go to the ABORT label and run MAIL again. In that case, > > you'll be depending on the default error handler, ON ERROR THEN EXIT, > > which will finally end it, and you'll be depending on LOGINOUT.EXE to > > deallocate your drive. > > > And where is your cleanup! You didn't check if the drive is allocated > > in the ABORT section, so again(!) you're depending on LOGOUT to > > deallocate your drive. Horrors! > > > [...] > > >> I didn't bother adding error handling to that code because > >> I realized that it would only be a *small* disaster if it failed." > > > If the result with correct programming is the same as with bad > > programming, what does it matter? You should still fix the code and > > fix the operations staff. Both need to be fixed in your case. > > > I SAID TO FIX THE BLOODY CODE. HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS. > > AND WARNING, I'VE GOT A LOT MORE UPPER CASE LETTERS IN MY ARSENEL. > > ALMOST UNLIMITED, IN FACT! AND FIXING THE CODE STILL DOESN'T GET YOUR > > BACKUP DONE IF SOME FOOL IS USING THE DRIVE TO BACKUP HIS STUPID VIDEO > > GAMES OR WHAT NOT DURING SYSTEM-BACKUP TIME. > > > Besides, he did have error handling code: ON ERROR THEN CONTINUE. Yes, > > it's bad, but it's still error handling. And I suspect that whoever > > put it there thought it would act more like SET NOON. > > Grampa, tell me again about how bad all Unix programmers were and how > great all VMS programmers were. :-) Whom are you talking to? I didn't write this code. I said it should be fixed. I didn't say anything about VMS vs. Unix programmers. > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > b...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 08:55:50 -0700 From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: Hypervisor Message-ID: <1190130950.865656.225270@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com> On Sep 17, 8:19 pm, David J Dachtera wrote: > Tom Linden wrote: > > > IIRC, Hypervisor, was (trademarked?) name Amdahl used for one of their > > systems where they first introduced this, ca. mid 80's > > SSSSHHHH!!!! Don't tell IBM! > > -- > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systemshttp://www.djesys.com/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Pagehttp://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ > > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ Still leaves 'Execvisor' and 'Kernelvisor' available... Or maybe 'Megavisor', 'Ultivisor', 'Penultivisor', 'Primovisor (Primavisor?)' Someone get those domain names now... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:22:58 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Hypervisor Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 08:55:50 -0700, Rich Jordan wrote: > On Sep 17, 8:19 pm, David J Dachtera > wrote: >> Tom Linden wrote: >> >> > IIRC, Hypervisor, was (trademarked?) name Amdahl used for one of their >> > systems where they first introduced this, ca. mid 80's >> >> SSSSHHHH!!!! Don't tell IBM! >> >> -- >> David J Dachtera >> dba DJE Systemshttp://www.djesys.com/ >> >> Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Pagehttp://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ >> >> Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ >> >> Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ >> >> Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support >> Page:http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ > > > Still leaves 'Execvisor' and 'Kernelvisor' available... > Or maybe 'Megavisor', 'Ultivisor', 'Penultivisor', 'Primovisor > (Primavisor?)' > Someone get those domain names now... > Penultimate means next to the last, why would you want that? How about anglo-saxon instead of latin, Overseer -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:32:10 -0700 From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: Hypervisor Message-ID: <1190133130.668465.275710@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Sep 18, 10:55 am, Rich Jordan wrote: > On Sep 17, 8:19 pm, David J Dachtera > wrote: > > > > > Tom Linden wrote: > > > > IIRC, Hypervisor, was (trademarked?) name Amdahl used for one of their > > > systems where they first introduced this, ca. mid 80's > > > SSSSHHHH!!!! Don't tell IBM! > > > -- > > David J Dachtera > > dba DJE Systemshttp://www.djesys.com/ > > > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Pagehttp://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ > > > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ > > > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ > > > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ > > Still leaves 'Execvisor' and 'Kernelvisor' available... > Or maybe 'Megavisor', 'Ultivisor', 'Penultivisor', 'Primovisor > (Primavisor?)' > Someone get those domain names now... How about 'Ubervisor' -- that rolls off the tongue nicely. Hmmm. Since it runs beneath everything else, maybe 'Hypovisor' would be more appropriate. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Sep 2007 16:42:02 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Hypervisor Message-ID: <5ladeqF77o7eU1@mid.individual.net> In article , "Tom Linden" writes: > On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 08:55:50 -0700, Rich Jordan wrote: > >> On Sep 17, 8:19 pm, David J Dachtera >> wrote: >>> Tom Linden wrote: >>> >>> > IIRC, Hypervisor, was (trademarked?) name Amdahl used for one of their >>> > systems where they first introduced this, ca. mid 80's >>> >>> SSSSHHHH!!!! Don't tell IBM! >>> >>> -- >>> David J Dachtera >>> dba DJE Systemshttp://www.djesys.com/ >>> >>> Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Pagehttp://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ >>> >>> Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ >>> >>> Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ >>> >>> Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support >>> Page:http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ >> >> >> Still leaves 'Execvisor' and 'Kernelvisor' available... >> Or maybe 'Megavisor', 'Ultivisor', 'Penultivisor', 'Primovisor >> (Primavisor?)' >> Someone get those domain names now... >> > Penultimate means next to the last, why would you want that? How about > anglo-saxon instead of latin, Overseer > > How about "Control Program/Monitor"? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:06:19 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Hypervisor Message-ID: Doug Phillips wrote: > How about 'Ubervisor' -- that rolls off the tongue nicely. VMesse She's the mother who gives birth/supports multiple babies running on her. :-) :-) (and with a cool reference to the original hypervisor, VM from IBM). ------------------------------ Date: 18 Sep 2007 12:29:10 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Hypervisor Message-ID: In article <5ladeqF77o7eU1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > How about "Control Program/Monitor"? > Resource Sharing Executive - 64M+ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:33:46 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Hypervisor Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:32:10 -0700, Doug Phillips wrote: > How about 'Ubervisor' -- that rolls off the tongue nicely. Well it is a linguistic bastard, half german and half latin -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:16:18 -0700 From: wim.versteeg@ns.nl Subject: Impact VMS version on CPU speed Message-ID: <1190124978.800689.95180@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> We have two ES40's with each four CPU's. One with openVMS 7.1-2, the other with openVMS 7.2.-1. For calculating the CPU speed we use a command procedure named VUP.COM: $!---------------------------------------------------------------------- $! VUP meter $!---------------------------------------------------------------------- $ say :== write sys$output $ before_cputim = f$getjpi ("","cputim") $ i = 1 $ loop: $ if i .gt. 1000 then goto endloop $ a = i * 1000 + i $ i = i + 1 $ goto loop $ ! $ endloop: $! $ after_cputim = f$getjpi ("","cputim") $ diff_cputim = after_cputim - before_cputim - 3 $! $ vup = (24*1200+diff_cputim/2)/diff_cputim $ node = f$getsyi("nodename") $ mtyp = f$getsyi("hw_name") $ say f$fao("VUP rating for !AS (!AS) = !SL.!SL", - node,mtyp,vup/10,vup-10*(vup/10)) $! $ exit The VUP rating on the 7.1-2 system is 576.0. On the 7.2-1 system it is just 261.8. When we install 7.1-2 on the second machine the VUP rating is what we expect it to be, namely 576.0. We did the same test on a couple of DS10's. The result is the same: the CPU speed on a 7.1-2 system is about twice the speed of the CPU on a 7.2-1 system. Anybody who has a clue ?? Wim Versteeg Dutch Railways ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:51:01 +0100 From: Anton Shterenlikht Subject: Re: node and port alloclass, cannot add a node to the cluster Message-ID: <20070918135101.GA12882@mech-aslap33.men.bris.ac.uk> On Sat, Sep 08, 2007 at 07:22:13AM +0000, John Santos wrote: > Bob Koehler wrote: > > > > You do have multiple system disks as far as the logical names refered > > to in the above message are concerned. For example, there should > > only be one SYSUAF and all three nodes should have a logical name > > pointing to it, unless it just happens to be findable in sys$system: > > on that node. So if you put it in sys$common:[sysexe] on the disk > > the Alphas share then you only really need to define that on the > > IA64. > > > > While what Bob says is correct, but I'm pretty sure it's not your > problem. You'll end up with multiple SYSUAF's, multiple queue databases, > etc., but that's actually legitimate in some cases (non-homogeneous > cluster.) And it won't keep the cluster from forming. Bob, John, many thanks. Perhaps I don't get the very basics, so apologies if my questions are obvious or stupid. For instance, I've a 2node Alpha-I64 cluster even though I never run CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM or CLUSTER_CONFIG_LAN.COM. Somehow the cluster was formed, at least according to the startup messages and to the outputs of SHOW CLUSTER or SHOW DEVICES commands. Neither did I define any clusterwide logical names in SYLOGCALS.COM or elsewhere. How could the cluster be formed? Is it really formed? I now understand that actually one can only add a node of the same architecture as that of a node on which CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM is run. So is CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM irrelevant to a 2node Alpha-I64 cluster? The Cluster Systems manual recommends all clusterwide logical names except LMF$LICENSE, NET$PROXY, and VMS$OBJECTS to be defined in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM. However, on my alpha and I64 they are all defined in SYLOGICALS.TEMPLATE. Is there not a contradiction? Or is that a minor point? The manual explains the difference: "OpenVMS will ensure that the clusterwise database has been initialized before SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM is executed." I understood from Bob's reply that if I put the core system files like e.g. SYSUAF.COM in SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE] on one node, then I only need to define the clusterwide logical names on the other node. Is that correct? Does it matter which node? Simply having clusterwide logical names does not prevent from having system files with different data on each node, or is that not a problem? Can I think of VMS logical names as analogous to UNIX links? In other words, if I have a system file on one node and define a clusterwide logical name for this file, can I delete this file from all other nodes in a cluster? Why do the definitions in SYLOGICALS.TEMPLATE have /SYSTEM qualifiers: $! DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXECUTIVE SYSUAF SYS$SYSTEM:SYSUAF.DAT $! DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXECUTIVE SYSUAFALT SYS$SYSTEM:SYSUAFALT.DAT $! DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXECUTIVE SYSALF SYS$SYSTEM:SYSALF.DAT Wouldn't /CLUSTER_SYSTEM be more appropriate? What other manuals besides Cluster Systems and System Manager's (vol 1 and 2) can I refer to for clarification? thanks a lot anton -- Anton Shterenlikht Room 2.6, Queen's Building Mech Eng Dept Bristol University University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:41:19 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: node and port alloclass, cannot add a node to the cluster Message-ID: Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > For instance, I've a 2node Alpha-I64 cluster even though I never > run CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM or CLUSTER_CONFIG_LAN.COM. Somehow the cluster > was formed, For a node to join an existing cluster, it needs to have the right cluster_authorize.dat file in its sys$system: as well as having its one proper SYSGEN parameters to enable the clustering code. If the node is a satellite, it needs to be defined in the LANCP so its MOP requests can be answered, and it needs to have its own system root [SYSx.]. It is possible to set those up manually, but not recommended. > I now understand that actually one can only add a node of the same > architecture as that of a node on which CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM is run. If you add a standalone node (with its own system disk), you can run CLUSTER_CONFIG on that node. You'll be prompted for the cluster information (group and password) and that procedure will create a local CLUSTER_AUTHORIZE.DAT and set the proper SYSGEN parameters. When you add a satellite node, you run cluster_config on the boot node to define the satellite's parameters ( ethernet address, root name, node name etc). It then creates the [.SYSx...] structure along with the alias to VMS$COMMON.DIR and populates it with a basic SYSGEN/MODPARAMS data. Logical names are then defined by the system manager based on how he wants his cluster to operate. (shared queues, shared SYSUAF etc etc). >However, on my alpha and I64 they are all > defined in SYLOGICALS.TEMPLATE. Is there not a contradiction? SYLOGICALS.TEMPLATE does not get executed. You are not supposed to modify the .TEMPLATE file. You are supposed to use it as "inspiration" to populate SYLOGICALS.COM which is the one that gets executed early in the boot stages. > I understood from Bob's reply that if I put the core system files > like e.g. SYSUAF.COM in SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE] on one node, then I only need > to define the clusterwide logical names on the other node. Is that > correct? Does it matter which node? It depends on your environment. If SYSUAF.DAT resides on a disk that is accessible only from NODE-A, consider the implications of NODE-B booting first and NODE-A remaining offline. If NODE-B defines SYSUAF to point to a non-existing device (since NODE-A hasn't booted), then anyone can access NODE-B without a password. So only the node(s) who have direct access to the files (and who can serve it to nodes not having direct access) should define such logicals, and when other nodes join the cluster, the cluster-wide table gets copied and they automatically get the definitions for SYSUAF etc. When a node boots and the central SYSUAF.DAT is not available, it should default to defining no logical name and having a minimally populated SYSUAF.DAT file in its SYS$SYSTEM to provide access to at least the system manager until the main node boots and provides access to te central SYSUAF as well as defining the clusterwide logical, after which, those other system automatically start to access the central one instead of the minimalist local one. > Why do the definitions in SYLOGICALS.TEMPLATE have /SYSTEM qualifiers: > Wouldn't /CLUSTER_SYSTEM be more appropriate? Clusterwide logicals are a relatively recent addition of VMS (7.2 if I remember correctly). There is not yet a simple /CLUSTER_SYSTEM qualifier. Also, note that it is possible to create cluster-wide loggical name tables that are not "SYSTEM" (aka: think about group logical name tables that propagate across nodes.). ------------------------------ Date: 18 Sep 2007 12:48:57 -0500 From: brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) Subject: Re: node and port alloclass, cannot add a node to the cluster Message-ID: <9GbFdtgQnt0n@cuebid.zko.hp.com> JF Mezei writes: > Anton Shterenlikht wrote: >> Why do the definitions in SYLOGICALS.TEMPLATE have /SYSTEM qualifiers: >> Wouldn't /CLUSTER_SYSTEM be more appropriate? > Clusterwide logicals are a relatively recent addition of VMS (7.2 if I > remember correctly). There is not yet a simple /CLUSTER_SYSTEM > qualifier. Also, note that it is possible to create cluster-wide > loggical name tables that are not "SYSTEM" (aka: think about group > logical name tables that propagate across nodes.). The lesson to be taken from the above post is not to trust JF to deliver accurate and timely technical information $ sho sys/noproc OpenVMS V8.3 on node CUEBID 18-SEP-2007 12:48:34.55 Uptime 33 12:34:33 $ help define /clus DEFINE /CLUSTER_SYSTEM You must be signed in to the SYSTEM account or have SYSNAM (system logical name) or SYSPRV (system) privilege to use this qualifier. Defines a clusterwide logical name in the LNM$SYSCLUSTER table. -- Rob Brooks MSL -- Nashua brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 13:15:09 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: node and port alloclass, cannot add a node to the cluster Message-ID: <87293$46f007a2$cef8887a$12621@TEKSAVVY.COM> Rob Brooks wrote: > The lesson to be taken from the above post is not to trust JF to deliver > accurate and timely technical information Thank you for your vote of confidence. Very appreciated. Please disregard my previous post completely since none of it was usable. > $ sho sys/noproc > OpenVMS V8.3 on node CUEBID 18-SEP-2007 12:48:34.55 Uptime 33 12:34:33 > > $ help define /clus Well, so they finally snuck this one in. But it is still unsusable in mixed architecture clusters since procedures using this new qualifier will bomb when running on VAX since HP failed to honour its "plan of record" to deliver an 8.* version of VAX-VMS. If you have no VAXen left in your shop, then you can use it to your heart.s content along with all the new gadgets that came with 8.3, but if you still have one or more VAXes, you need to be careful about using features that are not available on VAX in procedures that may be running on a VAX. (consider SYSMAN with SET ENV/CLUSTER to run procedures, so a procedure residing on an ALPHA might be tasked to run on a VAX without the system manager realising the procedure he will invoke uses alpha-only semantics. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:20:47 +0200 From: "Walter Kuhn" Subject: OPC on OpenVMS Message-ID: <46efc29f$0$22434$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> Hello Group, there is a field test (T1.0) of OPC for OpenVMS. We have installed it and we have some questions with it: - does anyone of you use & has has experience with OPC on OpenVMS? - is there a documentation? (the COM documentation contains no OPC) - has anyone a (small) server-example-program for OpenVMS? - has anyone a (small) client-example-program for OpenVMS? thank you & ragards Walter Kuhn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:35:16 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: OPC on OpenVMS Message-ID: <8CPHi.9068$ZA.4699@newsb.telia.net> Walter Kuhn wrote: > Hello Group, > > there is a field test (T1.0) of OPC for OpenVMS. > We have installed it and we have some questions with it: > > - does anyone of you use & has has experience with OPC on OpenVMS? > - is there a documentation? (the COM documentation contains no OPC) > - has anyone a (small) server-example-program for OpenVMS? > - has anyone a (small) client-example-program for OpenVMS? > > thank you & ragards > Walter Kuhn > > What is "OPC for OpenVMS" ? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:03:55 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: OPC on OpenVMS Message-ID: <46EFCCBB.2010906@comcast.net> Walter Kuhn wrote: > Hello Group, > > there is a field test (T1.0) of OPC for OpenVMS. > We have installed it and we have some questions with it: > > - does anyone of you use & has has experience with OPC on OpenVMS? > - is there a documentation? (the COM documentation contains no OPC) > - has anyone a (small) server-example-program for OpenVMS? > - has anyone a (small) client-example-program for OpenVMS? > > thank you & ragards > Walter Kuhn > > What is "OPC"? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:11:07 +0100 From: "Richard Brodie" Subject: Re: OPC on OpenVMS Message-ID: "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote in message news:46EFCCBB.2010906@comcast.net... > What is "OPC"? Open Process Control. In a quest for a vendor neutral system for process control applications, manufacturers opted for an ActiveX based standard. Sadly, I'm not joking. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:19:47 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: OPC on OpenVMS Message-ID: <78RHi.9070$ZA.4483@newsb.telia.net> Richard Brodie wrote: > "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote in message > news:46EFCCBB.2010906@comcast.net... > >> What is "OPC"? > > Open Process Control. In a quest for a vendor neutral system for process control > applications, manufacturers opted for an ActiveX based standard. Sadly, I'm not > joking. > > OK, thanks. Now, a link/URL maybe ? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:33:28 +0200 From: Joseph Huber Subject: Re: OPC on OpenVMS Message-ID: Jan-Erik S=F6derholm wrote: > Richard Brodie wrote: >> "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote in message=20 >> news:46EFCCBB.2010906@comcast.net... >> >>> What is "OPC"? >> >> Open Process Control. In a quest for a vendor neutral system for=20 >> process control >> applications, manufacturers opted for an ActiveX based standard.=20 >> Sadly, I'm not >> joking. >> >=20 > OK, thanks. > Now, a link/URL maybe ? The message on openvms.org http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=3D07/09/13/2732819 contains a pointer to http://www.opcfoundation.org/ --=20 Joseph Huber - http://www.huber-joseph.de ------------------------------ Date: 18 Sep 2007 16:34:27 +0200 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: OPC on OpenVMS Message-ID: <46effe13$1@news.langstoeger.at> In article <78RHi.9070$ZA.4483@newsb.telia.net>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: >Richard Brodie wrote: >> "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote in message >> news:46EFCCBB.2010906@comcast.net... >> >>> What is "OPC"? >> >> Open Process Control. In a quest for a vendor neutral system for process control >> applications, manufacturers opted for an ActiveX based standard. Sadly, I'm not >> joking. > >OK, thanks. >Now, a link/URL maybe ? http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvms/products/ips/opc/ http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLE_for_Process_Control http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPC_Unified_Architecture -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:35:26 +0200 From: "Walter Kuhn" Subject: Re: OPC on OpenVMS Message-ID: <46efe231$0$2258$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/opc/index.html http://www.opcfoundation.org/ Walter "Jan-Erik Söderholm" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:78RHi.9070$ZA.4483@newsb.telia.net... > Richard Brodie wrote: >> "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote in message >> news:46EFCCBB.2010906@comcast.net... >> >>> What is "OPC"? >> >> Open Process Control. In a quest for a vendor neutral system for process >> control >> applications, manufacturers opted for an ActiveX based standard. Sadly, >> I'm not >> joking. > > OK, thanks. > Now, a link/URL maybe ? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:12:29 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: OPC on OpenVMS Message-ID: Walter Kuhn wrote: > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/opc/index.html > http://www.opcfoundation.org/ > > Walter > > "Jan-Erik Söderholm" schrieb im Newsbeitrag > news:78RHi.9070$ZA.4483@newsb.telia.net... >> Richard Brodie wrote: >>> "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote in message >>> news:46EFCCBB.2010906@comcast.net... >>> >>>> What is "OPC"? >>> Open Process Control. In a quest for a vendor neutral system for process >>> control >>> applications, manufacturers opted for an ActiveX based standard. Sadly, >>> I'm not >>> joking. >> OK, thanks. >> Now, a link/URL maybe ? > > OK. I64-only at the moment. No reason to dig into it right now then... Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.510 ************************