INFO-VAX Wed, 15 Aug 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 446 Contents: Re: Alpha/Integrity Dead Pool Re: Alpha/Integrity Dead Pool Re: Backup save set compression Re: Backup save set compression Deathrow cluster down? Re: Deathrow cluster down? Re: Deathrow cluster down? Re: Deathrow cluster down? Re: Deathrow cluster down? Re: Deathrow cluster down? Re: Deathrow cluster down? Re: Deathrow cluster down? Re: Deathrow cluster down? Re: DS10L suddenly cannot get to the SRM prompt Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: How to detect duplicate auto-resubmiting batch job Re: How to detect duplicate auto-resubmiting batch job Re: How to detect duplicate auto-resubmiting batch job Re: How to detect duplicate auto-resubmiting batch job Re: How to detect duplicate auto-resubmiting batch job Re: How to detect duplicate auto-resubmiting batch job Re: How to detect duplicate auto-resubmiting batch job installing wrong-architecture image Re: installing wrong-architecture image Re: Intel marginalizing Itanium even faster than expected? RE: Intel marginalizing Itanium even faster than expected? Re: Intel marginalizing Itanium even faster than expected? Re: Intel marginalizing Itanium even faster than expected? Re: Node & Port allocation classes on a new cluster Storageworks SAN Switches: possible to reset password ? Re: Storageworks SAN Switches: possible to reset password ? Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion RE: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:53:35 +0200 From: Michael Unger Subject: Re: Alpha/Integrity Dead Pool Message-ID: <5igm25F3ogoalU1@mid.individual.net> On 2007-08-14 15:37, "FredK" wrote: > [...] > > The switch to IPF was the realization that investment in chip FABs was too > high to be sustained by individual computer companies in the long run. Now, > the pocket protector set can complain about EPIC. With little doubt IPF was > initially very disappointing performance wise. A case can be made that in > retrospect, the 64-bit x86 might have been a better choice for VMS - but it > wasn't a choice when the decision was made. Nor is it a reasonable choice > for big-endian UNIX implementations and user bases. Has POWER even been considered at *any* time?? Or was there a decision "It must be Intel!" and later on "What architecture to choose?" > [...] Michael -- Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 12:28:16 -0400 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: Alpha/Integrity Dead Pool Message-ID: "Michael Unger" wrote in message news:5igm25F3ogoalU1@mid.individual.net... > On 2007-08-14 15:37, "FredK" wrote: > >> [...] >> >> The switch to IPF was the realization that investment in chip FABs was >> too >> high to be sustained by individual computer companies in the long run. >> Now, >> the pocket protector set can complain about EPIC. With little doubt IPF >> was >> initially very disappointing performance wise. A case can be made that >> in >> retrospect, the 64-bit x86 might have been a better choice for VMS - but >> it >> wasn't a choice when the decision was made. Nor is it a reasonable >> choice >> for big-endian UNIX implementations and user bases. > > Has POWER even been considered at *any* time?? Or was there a decision > "It must be Intel!" and later on "What architecture to choose?" > They didn't bring me into the discussions, so I can't say. Nor was it a VMS decision. It was a high level corporate decision by Compaq. But get serious and ask yourself the question of why Compaq (or HP for that matter) would want to rely on IBM for their large systems business? Why didn't IBM adopt Alpha rather than invest in Power? Why doesn't SUN adopt POWER instead of the slowly dying SPARC? Give it a little thought and remember what was available at the time, and who is now and will remain the largest chip maker and investor in new process and FABs? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:59:17 +0200 From: Jur van der Burg <"lddriver at digiater dot nl"> Subject: Re: Backup save set compression Message-ID: <46c2a446$0$239$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> Gur, > Jur - That's documented in my utilities presentation. Yes, it tells us how to fix the attributes. But if you don't set the attributes BEFORE copying the file, and fix them afterwards your data will be corrupt, and you will be in for a nasty surprise as no 'fixing file attributes' will be able to rescue your data. This should be in your presentation with big red letters! You can of course embed the conmpressed saveset in a new 'normal' saveset before transfer, but that's really ugly :-). Jur. Guy Peleg wrote: > "Jur van der Burg" <"lddriver at digiater dot nl"> wrote in message > news:46c1e7ff$0$241$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl... >>> What's wrong here? >> There's probably a record of less than 14 bytes in lenght in the file, >> and the VMS i/o subsystems rejects that for tapes. And yes, that's >> documented. >> >> Talking about data compression, there's a big gotcha when you use it. >> >> If you create a compressed saveset on disk, and copy it to another system >> with ftp (binary copy), and copy it back you can't restore it. The records >> for a compressed saveset are now variable length, and ftp has a problem >> with >> that in binary mode. And if you use text mode you will get a problem for >> sure. Also, after restoring, backup/repair does not know how to handle >> compressed savesets. >> >> I ended up doing a 'set file/attr=(rfm=fix,rat=none,mrs=512,lrl=512)' on >> the saveset before copying, and a 'set >> file/attr=(rfm=var,rat=none,mrs=32256,lrl=32256)' >> when I want to restore it. > > > Jur - That's documented in my utilities presentation. > > >> I found this out when testing backup procedures. You see, anyone can >> create a >> backup, but restoring is another art. Testing if you can reaaly restore it >> may pay off! >> >> Jur. >> >> >> Scott Greig wrote: >>> "Guy Peleg" wrote in message >>> news:46c17fb5$0$16340$88260bb3@free.teranews.com... >>>> "Scott Greig" wrote in message >>>> news:f9pru1$2gei$1@sxnews1.qg.com... >>>>> Hello all: >>>>> >>>>> The Alpha 8.3 patch site lists a new Backup patch >>>>> (VMS83A_BACKUP-V0300) that describes a fix >>>>> for a problem concerning the use of the /Journal >>>>> switch and the /Data_Format=Compressed switch. >>>>> >>>>> The /Data_Format switch???!!!??? >>>> This is a mistake. /DATA_FORMAT=COMPRESS should not have been >>>> documented. It is very reliable, and as mentioned by Ian, it uses >>>> ZLIB as the compression engine. It has one major limitation, it can >>>> only compress savesets when writing to disks. Writing compressed >>>> savesets >>>> to Tapes is not supported. >>> Further to this - it seems that I cannot even $ COPY the saveset >>> to a tape - I get >>> >>> $ dir/fu sys$sysdevice:[000000]qq.bck >>> Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000] >>> QQ.BCK;1 File ID: (6180,230,0) >>> Size: 8364/8365 Owner: [1,1] >>> Created: 14-AUG-2007 11:18:28.79 >>> Revised: 14-AUG-2007 11:18:37.99 (1) >>> Expires: >>> Backup: >>> Effective: >>> Recording: >>> Accessed: >>> Attributes: >>> Modified: >>> Linkcount: 1 >>> File organization: Sequential >>> Shelved state: Online >>> Caching attribute: No_caching >>> File attributes: Allocation: 8365, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0 >>> No version limit >>> Record format: Variable length, maximum 32256 bytes, longest 32256 bytes >>> Record attributes: None >>> RMS attributes: None >>> Journaling enabled: None >>> File protection: System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:, World: >>> Access Cntrl List: None >>> Client attributes: None >>> Total of 1 file, 8364/8365 blocks. >>> $ init mka600: save/media=compact >>> $ mount mka600: save/media=compact >>> %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, SAVE mounted on _GEMAXP$MKA600: >>> $ copy sys$sysdevice:[000000]qq.bck mka600:/log >>> %COPY-E-OPENOUT, error opening MKA600:[SCOTT.CLIENTS.DND]QQ.BCK;1 as >>> output >>> -RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failed >>> -SYSTEM-F-BADATTRIB, bad attribute control list >>> %COPY-W-NOTCOPIED, SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]QQ.BCK;1 not copied >>> >>> What's wrong here? >>> >>> Scott >>> >>>> .... and AFAIK, VMS engineering use it. >>>>> So, I tried it out - and achieved a 67% compression >>>>> rate for the output save set (138087 blocks with >>>>> compression, 412461 blocks without.) >>>>> >>>>> HELP BACKUP does not mention this switch. >>>>> >>>>> My question - when was this implemented, and >>>>> how reliable is the output save set? >>>> Introduced with OpenVMS V8.3. It's an undocumented >>>> feature....use it at your own risk. >>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Scott >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>>> > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 05:57:43 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Backup save set compression Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 23:59:17 -0700, Jur van der Burg <"lddriver at = digiater dot nl"> wrote: > I ended up doing a 'set file/attr=3D(rfm=3Dfix,rat=3Dnone,mrs=3D512,lr= l=3D512)' on > the saveset before copying, and a 'set = > file/attr=3D(rfm=3Dvar,rat=3Dnone,mrs=3D32256,lrl=3D32256)' > when I want to restore it. > Jur - That's documented in my utilities presentation. > I found this out when testing backup procedures. You see, anyone can= = > create a > backup, but restoring is another art. Testing if you can reaaly restor= e = > it > may pay off! Is it not just easier to create a saveset and then compress it? -- = PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:16:23 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Deathrow cluster down? Message-ID: Has the Deathrow cluster failed again? :_( -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: 15 Aug 2007 08:18:08 -0500 From: burley.not-this@encompasserve-or-this.org (Graham Burley) Subject: Re: Deathrow cluster down? Message-ID: <8Y1$PmKZ+ph9@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , "P. Sture" writes: > Has the Deathrow cluster failed again? Er, yes, again. GEIN is down, MANSON is up but lacking quorum. Haven't got remote console access at the moment to find out what's up. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Aug 2007 13:31:13 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Deathrow cluster down? Message-ID: <5igdh1F3ok103U1@mid.individual.net> In article <8Y1$PmKZ+ph9@eisner.encompasserve.org>, burley.not-this@encompasserve-or-this.org (Graham Burley) writes: > In article , "P. Sture" writes: >> Has the Deathrow cluster failed again? > > Er, yes, again. GEIN is down, MANSON is up but lacking quorum. > Haven't got remote console access at the moment to find out what's up. Is it just me or do others find the reliability (or lack thereof) of this "VMS cluster" rather ironic? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:41:39 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Deathrow cluster down? Message-ID: In article <8Y1$PmKZ+ph9@eisner.encompasserve.org>, burley.not-this@encompasserve-or-this.org (Graham Burley) writes: > > >In article , "P. Sture" writes: >> Has the Deathrow cluster failed again? > >Er, yes, again. GEIN is down, MANSON is up but lacking quorum. >Haven't got remote console access at the moment to find out what's up. Where, exactly, is the deathrow cluster located? If convenient, perhaps some of the equipment that Elliott Roper is discarding would help to keep the deathrow available. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:47:53 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Deathrow cluster down? Message-ID: In article <5igdh1F3ok103U1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > >In article <8Y1$PmKZ+ph9@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > burley.not-this@encompasserve-or-this.org (Graham Burley) writes: >> In article , "P. Sture" writes: >>> Has the Deathrow cluster failed again? >> >> Er, yes, again. GEIN is down, MANSON is up but lacking quorum. >> Haven't got remote console access at the moment to find out what's up. > >Is it just me or do others find the reliability (or lack thereof) of >this "VMS cluster" rather ironic? If hardware failures are the cause, not necessarily. I've had drives fail and a hardware failure is not a VMS issue. Also, I don't know the specif- ics of the deathrow cluster but I'd wager it is old equipment donated for the cause. It's probably not under any hardware support contract either. A linux box I'm hosting is certainly far more problematic. In fact, about 15-20 hours into operation, its ethernet connection starts spewing packet fragments at an alarming rate. The 'temporary' solution has been a crontab entry to reboot the box every 12 hours. This same ethernet card works like a dream when installed in a VMS machine. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:49:16 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Deathrow cluster down? Message-ID: On 08/15/07 08:31, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article <8Y1$PmKZ+ph9@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > burley.not-this@encompasserve-or-this.org (Graham Burley) writes: >> In article , "P. Sture" writes: >>> Has the Deathrow cluster failed again? >> Er, yes, again. GEIN is down, MANSON is up but lacking quorum. >> Haven't got remote console access at the moment to find out what's up. > > Is it just me or do others find the reliability (or lack thereof) of > this "VMS cluster" rather ironic? That also was the first thing I thought. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: 15 Aug 2007 09:30:48 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Deathrow cluster down? Message-ID: In article <5igdh1F3ok103U1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > Is it just me or do others find the reliability (or lack thereof) of > this "VMS cluster" rather ironic? The deathrow cluster is not configured in high availability fashion. But it could be if you'ld like to pony up for the dual-pathed disk technology. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:30:24 -0700 From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: Deathrow cluster down? Message-ID: <1187191824.322695.122850@l22g2000prc.googlegroups.com> On Aug 15, 9:41 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <8Y1$PmKZ+...@eisner.encompasserve.org>, burley.not-t...@encompasserve-or-this.org (Graham Burley) writes: > > > > >In article , "P. Sture" writes: > >> Has the Deathrow cluster failed again? > > >Er, yes, again. GEIN is down, MANSON is up but lacking quorum. > >Haven't got remote console access at the moment to find out what's up. > > Where, exactly, is the deathrow cluster located? If convenient, perhaps > some of the equipment that Elliott Roper is discarding would help to keep > the deathrow available. > IIRC the hardware is in a data center in Forida and the administrators are in Europe or Great Britain. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Aug 2007 12:00:03 -0500 From: burley.not-this@encompasserve-or-this.org (Graham Burley) Subject: Re: Deathrow cluster down? Message-ID: <6KYFr6fJLQsA@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <1187191824.322695.122850@l22g2000prc.googlegroups.com>, "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" writes: > IIRC the hardware is in a data center in Forida and the administrators > are in Europe or Great Britain. The hardware was in Florida, it's now in North Carolina. The owner is in Florida, with admin assists in Europe (Belgium & UK) and US. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:22:33 -0700 From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: DS10L suddenly cannot get to the SRM prompt Message-ID: <1187191353.803309.34230@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Aug 14, 8:12 am, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > I've used this ds10l with little problems for some time. It has a scsi di= sk, > version 7.3 firmware and I run freebsd on it (the single point of failure > cluster frontend). > > I noticed that something was wrong when I could not use it's com1 (rmc) > port for connecting to another ds10l with cu. I could not get rid of > /dev/cuad0: device busy. > > I tried to restart this ds10l and now I get stuck at the power-up > sequence: > > RMC>reset > > Returning to COM port > *** keyboard not plugged in... > 1024 Meg of system memory > probing hose 0, PCI > probing PCI-to-ISA bridge, bus 1 > bus 0, slot 9 -- ewa -- DE500-BA Network Controller > bus 0, slot 11 -- ewb -- DE500-BA Network Controller > bus 0, slot 13 -- dqa -- Acer Labs M1543C IDE > bus 0, slot 13 -- dqb -- Acer Labs M1543C IDE > bus 0, slot 17 -- pka -- NCR 53C895 > initializing GCT/FRU at 3ff40000 > > The system does not move beyond this point. > > Can this be some sort of hardware failure? > > the RMC status does not indicate any problems: > > PLATFORM STATUS > =E2=8C=A10mFirmware Revision: V1.1 > Server Power: ON > RMC Halt: Deasserted > RMC Power Control: ON > Power Supply: OK > System Fans: OK CPU Fan: OK > Temperature: 40.0=E2=95=9FC=E2=8C=A10m (warnings at 55.0=E2=95=9FC, power= -off at 60.0=E2=95=9FC) > Escape Sequence: ^[^[RMC > Remote Access: Disabled > RMC Password: not set > Alert Enable: Disabled > Alert Pending: =E2=8C=A10;1;5mYES=E2=8C=A10m > Init String: > Dial String: > Alert String: > Com1_mode: SNOOP > Last Alert: =E2=8C=A10;1mAC Loss=E2=8C=A10m > Watchdog Timer: 60 seconds > Autoreboot: OFF > Logout Timer: 20 minutes > User String: > > RMC> > > The temperature is a bit high now because I opened the box. > > No amber light is on, although the leftmost, environmental LED flashes > several times just after powering the system on. Can this be an indication > of hardware failure? > > Are there any recommended steps to track down the problem? > > I'd like to check the com ports setup, but since I cannot even get to the > prompt.. > > thanks a lot > > -- > Anton Shterenlikht > Room 2.6, Queen's Building > Mech Eng Dept > Bristol University > University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK > Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 > Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 Replying cold; I don't have my DS10L docs or notes on its past problems with me. My DS10L would run for varying lengths of time, then hang. It got progressively worse until it would not even get to the SRM console unless it was left shut down for a period of time. First thing is to pull any PCI card to see if its causing problems. If the PCI card is a SCSI adapter, then it or something attached to it could cause a hang. The most common cause I've seen reported is failing or intermittent memory; it works long enough to get through the POST then start failing. You could try reseating the DIMMs and the riser cards; you could also try swapping the DIMMs on the riser cards. When that didn't work on mine (I had two DIMM pairs and tested both successfully in the DS10 at work) I replaced the power supply on a knowledgeable recommendation. Still no go. Mine ended up being the main logic board (motherboard). I got a lucky cheap replacement a while ago and its been running fine with the original memory and power supply. I have not seen your serial error before. That might indicate its more likely a motherboard issue, unfortunately. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:48:00 +0100 From: "R.A.Omond" Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: Elliott Roper wrote: > [...snip...] Elliott, just out of curiosity ... what happened to put Yezerski Roper Limited into liquidation ? 'twould be sad if you ran out of VMS work. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 11:35:46 +0100 From: Elliott Roper Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: <150820071135467295%nospam@yrl.co.uk> In article , R.A.Omond wrote: > Elliott Roper wrote: > > [...snip...] > > Elliott, just out of curiosity ... what happened to put > Yezerski Roper Limited into liquidation ? 'twould be > sad if you ran out of VMS work. Heh! That was more or less it. Exacerbated by relying too much on one large customer which had a series of management and ownership changes which decimated its internal support for our specialist systems. So, basically my poor management. But it was glorious fun while it lasted. Every day I'd go to work and play with some of the brightest programmers on the planet, making excellent stuff that was actually useful and didn't kill people. I really had no heart in moving it all to Windows. We did try, but it was like putting lipstick on a pig. Even in business, if it isn't fun, it isn't worth doing. You are too long dead. -- To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:18:00 GMT From: "John E. Malmberg" Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: Rich Alderson wrote: > Robert Deininger writes: > >>In article <130820072054094448%nospam@yrl.co.uk>, >> Elliott Roper wrote: > >>>Everyone who covets a free Vax heap can speak that much teco, or at any >>>rate fake it. > >>Eh? I've been on VMS for 21 years, and I've NEVER used TECO. > > It's never too late. Yes. Admitting a problem is always a good first step to solving it. Consider you may need to do an edit on system with out a console that understands ANSI or even VT52. -John wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:52:04 +0100 From: "Richard Brodie" Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: "John E. Malmberg" wrote in message news:c2Dwi.46268$Xa3.41868@attbi_s22... > Consider you may need to do an edit on system with out a console that understands ANSI > or even VT52. EDT in line mode would be my choice (or bribing Fred, of course). ------------------------------ Date: 15 Aug 2007 09:27:48 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: In article , Robert Deininger writes: > > Eh? I've been on VMS for 21 years, and I've NEVER used TECO. Oh, newbie, eh? ------------------------------ Date: 15 Aug 2007 09:28:50 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: In article , "Richard Brodie" writes: > > > EDT in line mode would be my choice (or bribing Fred, of course). You don't really know EDT until your best connection is an LA120 over a 1200 baud modem. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:44:09 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article , > Robert Deininger writes: > > > > Eh? I've been on VMS for 21 years, and I've NEVER used TECO. > > Oh, newbie, eh? LOL! You've just given my an idea there :-) -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 11:08:46 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: <46C316FE.4080906@comcast.net> Bob Koehler wrote: > In article , Robert Deininger writes: > >>Eh? I've been on VMS for 21 years, and I've NEVER used TECO. > > > Oh, newbie, eh? > It's just barely possible that he's never NEEDED to use TECO. There are a few things that TECO can do quickly and easily that are difficult or impossible in other editors. For those who don't NEED it, TECO is just difficult and dangerous! I'm a couple of years less new to VMS and I've used TECO ONCE! Thanks to a post here many long years ago, I remembered that TECO could solve some tedious problem, checked the manual for the necessary magic character strings and did the tedious job zippity-zap! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:46:26 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: In article <46C316FE.4080906@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > Bob Koehler wrote: > > In article > > , Robert > > Deininger writes: > > > >>Eh? I've been on VMS for 21 years, and I've NEVER used TECO. > > > > > > Oh, newbie, eh? > > > > It's just barely possible that he's never NEEDED to use TECO. There are > a few things that TECO can do quickly and easily that are difficult or > impossible in other editors. > > For those who don't NEED it, TECO is just difficult and dangerous! > > I'm a couple of years less new to VMS and I've used TECO ONCE! Thanks > to a post here many long years ago, I remembered that TECO could solve > some tedious problem, checked the manual for the necessary magic > character strings and did the tedious job zippity-zap! Wimp! Have you no faith in your backups? :-) -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:14:58 +0100 From: Elliott Roper Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: <150820071714588437%nospam@yrl.co.uk> In article , Bob Koehler wrote: > In article , > Robert Deininger writes: > > > > Eh? I've been on VMS for 21 years, and I've NEVER used TECO. > > Oh, newbie, eh? I got teco loaded into my finger ROMs somewhere about OS/8, TOPS-10 and RSX-11M. There didn't seem to be any point going back to an inferior editor on VMS. I briefly used EVE and TPU during the lack of compatibility mode on MicroVAX II's but it was a huge relief when we got teco native again. I didn't half get rubbished for it though! -- To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:23:55 +0100 From: Elliott Roper Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: <150820071723550618%nospam@yrl.co.uk> In article <130820070946381392%nospam@yrl.co.uk>, Elliott Roper wrote: Update: It is now a much smaller pile, changes below. Probably not worth bothering with unless you are close and are really keen for spares. > I have a pile of old kit waiting to go to the tip. > Phillip Helbig, as he grabbed the best stuff, convinced me I should > mention what's left in case anyone wants it. > Microvaxes: All gone > Vaxstations All that's left is: 1 x 4000 60 no memory, low-res graphics 5 x 4000 VLC 1 x 3100 38 SPX Alphastations 1 x Jensen 3 x 200 4/100 (1 has NT boot ROM. It is probably busted) 1 x 3000 (in poor state) Other stuff 1 x Decserver 200 MC 6 x VRT17-HA 2 x VRT16-HA 2 x VRC16-HA 4 x VT420 2 x VT320 1 x Storage expansion BA42A SZ12 much reduced pile of various monitor and SCSI cables, power cables > All of the machines had enough memory to run VMS with Motif and DECnet. > Some had more. But not a lot. It used to be expensive stuff remember? > First come first served. Take as much or as little as you like. It is > at my house in Hayfield, which is about 15 miles SE of Manchester. UK > > I need the space by 8-Sep-2007. The dregs will be dumped before then. > > Just about all of it was working when it was switched off. It has since > been stored in a Portakabin inside my barn. Not too damp. > I have removed all the disks from all the machines. Some of them, I > can't remember which, had sort-of sensitive customer data. Sorry. -- To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:29:58 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: In article <46C316FE.4080906@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > It's just barely possible that he's never NEEDED to use TECO. There are > a few things that TECO can do quickly and easily that are difficult or > impossible in other editors. Just to keep it in the collective consciousness, here's a bit of TECO gleaned from this newsgroup: >Newsgroups: comp.os.vms >From: morris@mv.mv.com (Skipper W. Morris) >Subject: Tool to convert U**x mail to VMSMail >Message-ID: >Organization: MV Communications, Inc. >Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 06:05:28 GMT >X-Nntp-Posting-Host: mv.mv.com >Lines: 241 VMS Mail lovers, I worked up the little gem below after another frustrating day of trying to find a reasonable way to deal with lots of mail. It converts U**X mail file folders to VMS mail files/folders/messages. Bug reports/fixes/comments/etc, are appreciated. enjoy /Skip Morris ----------------------------------cut here------------------------------------ $ set noon ! 'f$verify(0)' $!+ $! CONVERT_MAIL.COM V1.0, Skip Morris, "morris@mv.mv.com", 26-Dec-95 $! Input paramters: $! P1 = The file(s) you want to convert. $! P2 = Output VMS Mail file. $! P3 = VMS Mail folder to store mail (defaults to input file name). $! P4 = if nonnull then only convert to Mail11 V3. $! Wildcard directory/filename inputs are permitted. $! Use from batch by: $! "$ submit convert_mail /param="DISK$FOO:[SOURCE...]*.txt;" $! Max supported message count per input file is 16,777,215 since $! that's all that could fit in the available return status fields. $! Any '"' char's in personal name are blown away as VMSMail barfs on 'em. $! Any special char's in addresses string cause address to be quoted. $! Warning!! properly formatted unix mail file assumed. Not much checking. $!- $ default = f$envi("procedure") $ if f$parse(p1,,,"name") + f$parse(p1,,,"type") + f$parse(p1,,,"version") - .eqs. ".;" then p1 = p1 + "*.*;" ! cause directory input to be wildcard $ search_file = f$parse(p1) $ wildcard = f$loca("*",search_file) .ne. f$leng(search_file) .or. - f$loca("%",search_file) .ne. f$leng(search_file) .or. - f$loca("...",search_file) .ne. f$leng(search_file) $ output_file = f$parse(p2,"mail.mai;",p1) $ temp_file = f$parse("mail_"+f$getjpi("","pid")+".tmp;",output_file,default) $ v3only = p4 .nes. "" $main_loop: $ input_file = f$search(search_file) $ if input_file .nes. "" $ then $ write sys$output "Converting ",input_file," to Maill11V3 format..." $ folder = f$parse(input_file,,,"name") $ call convert_unix_mail 'input_file' 'temp_file' $ ! return status has line count encoded in return status value $ msg_count = ($status .and. %x07fffff8) / 8 $ if .not. v3only $ then $ write sys$output f$fao("Converting to ISAM file !AS folder !AS...", - output_file,folder) $ call convert_vms_mail 'temp_file' 'output_file' 'folder' $ delete 'temp_file' $ else $ write sys$output f$fao("New file is !AS.",output_file) $ rename 'temp_file' 'output_file' $ endif $ write sys$output f$fao("...done, !ZL message!%S processed.",msg_count) $ if wildcard then goto main_loop $ endif $ exit $! $CONVERT_VMS_MAIL: SUBROUTINE $ tempcom = f$parse("mail-"+f$getjpi("","pid")+".tmp;",p2,f$envi("procedure")) $ create 'tempcom' $ open/append file 'tempcom' $ write file "$ mail" $ write file "set file ",p1 $ write file "copy/all ",p3," ",p2,"/noconfirm" $ write file "exit" $ close file $ @'tempcom' $ delete 'tempcom' $ exit $ENDSUBROUTINE $! $CONVERT_UNIX_MAIL: SUBROUTINE $ teco = "$teco32 teco" $ unix_mail_file = f$search(f$parse(p1)) $ if unix_mail_file .eqs. "" then exit 4 $ temp_file = f$parse(p2) $ if temp_file .eqs. "" then exit 4 $! $ if f$trnlnm("tec$memory") .nes. "" then deassign tec$memory $ assign/user 'unix_mail_file' mail$in $ assign/user 'temp_file' mail$out $ assign/user _nla0: sys$output ! comment this line out to vfy teco execution $ define/user tec$init "96ee" $ teco ! goto top, case match exact, load qu, qt tokens illegal Mail-11! j1^x13^uu`10:^uu`^ut-` ! Add illegal in "From:" after "-" char! 9^uv`32:^uv`13:^uv`:^uv.:%@!^=/[]` ! qv contains sendmail delimiter tokens! ermail$in`ewmail$out` ! open input, output files! !main loop for each msg! <%q ! start loop, increment msg counter! b,.pb,.ka ! page out previous, get new! 12i` ! insert at msg start! .ua ! store msg top in qa! s^el^equ` ! srch 1 blank lines! .ub ! store end of headers qb! qajl2r ! go end of initial "From" line! .-4,.xm ! get year in qm! 5r.uc ! qc at end of timezone/timeofday! r-s `::s^ea`"s2r.ucr-s `' ! if alpha timezone then backup! .,qcxn ! get time in qn! .-1uc-2s `.,qcxo ! 1-2 digit day-of-month in qo! 3r-s ` ! go to start of month! .,.+3xp ! get month in qp! qaj ! search "From: " header! qb-qa,:s^elFrom: `"s ! if successful! -d9i` ! then change space to tab! 0l1xlkqajgl-l ! move line to top! 6c.uc ! save start of address qc! 0,0xc0,0xl ! init qc(pers nam), ql(addr)! 0a-34"e ! if 'From: "pp" ' sntx! c1:fb" `"s ! then if ending '" '! 1:fb<`"s ! then if find starting '<'! 1:fb>`"s ! then if ending '>' found! qcj ! then go start pers name! dqb-1ub ! delete leading '"', fixup qb! s"`-dqb-1ub ! find ending '"', del, fix qb! qc,.xc ! store pers name qc! qc,.k ! kill pers name! dqb-1ub ! delete space end pers name! s<`-dqb-1ub.ud ! find starting '<' and delete! s>`-dqb-1ub ! find ending '>' and delete! qd,.xlqd,.k ! store addr in ql and kill! |46^t.:=69^t1:=77^tqq=0tt ! else bad msg fmt, out err msg! ' ! endif! ' ! endif! | 1:fb"`"s ! else if 'From: "aa"aa (pp)' syntax! 1:fb (`"s ! then if ' ('! 1:fb)`"s ! then if ending ')' found! qcj ! then go start addr! s (`-2dqb-2ub ! delete ' (', fix qb! qc,.xlqc,.k ! put addr ql, delete! s)`-dqb-1ud ! go end pers, del ')', fx qb! qc,.xcqc,.k ! put pers name qc, delete! |46^t.:=69^t2:=77^tqq=0tt ! else bad msg fmt, out err msg! ' ! endif! |qcjl2rqc,.xlqc,.k0,0xc ! else assume 'From: "aa"aa' sntx! ' ! endif! |46^t.:=69^t3:=77^tqq=0tt ! else bad msg fmt, output err msg! ' ! endif! ' ! endif! | 1:fb <`"s ! else if 'From: pp ' sntx, if ' <'! 1:fb>`"s ! then if ending '>' found! qcj ! then go start pers name! s <`-2dqb-2ub ! find starting ' <' and delete! qc,.xc ! store pers name qc! qc,.k ! kill pers name! s>`-dqb-1ub ! find ending '>' and delete! qc,.xlqc,.k ! store addr in ql and kill! |46^t.:=69^t4:=77^tqq=0tt ! else bad msg fmt, output err msg! ' ! endif! | ! else! 1:fb (`"s ! if 'From: aa (pp) sntx, if ' ('! 1:fb)`"s ! then if ending ')' found! qcj ! then go start addr! s (`-2dqb-2ub ! delete ' (', fix qb! qc,.xlqc,.k ! put addr ql, delete! s)`-dqb-1ud ! go end pers, del ')', fix qb! qc,.xcqc,.k ! put pers name qc, delete! |46^t.:=69^t5:=77^tqq=0tt ! else bad msg fmt, outpt err msg! ' ! endif! |qcj ! else assume single addr case! ::s<`"s-ds>`-dqb-2ub' ! handle case 'From: '! l2rqc,.xlqc,.k0,0xc ! assume 'From: aa' syntax! ' ! endif! ' ! endif! ' ! endif! qcjgl.ud ! go end "From:", insert addr! qcj ! end loop! :qc"g ! if pers name nonnull! qdji `qb+1ub ! then insrt space delimiter! i"`gci"`qb+2ub ! insrt pers nam w/quotes! ' ! endif! |qajiFrom:`9i` ! else insrt "From:" anyway! i""`13i`10i`qb+19ub ! create "" from, fixup qb! ' ! endif! qajqb-qa,:s^elTo: `"s ! if 'To:' header found! -d9i` ! then chg space to tab! l::s `"s-3dqb-3ub ! if additional 'To:' header lines! <::s `;-dqb-1ub>i `qb+1ub ! then append & kill leading spaces! l::fs `To:` ! Add 'To:' hdr if more addressee! ' ! endif! -l1xlkqajlgl ! move 'To:' line to new loc! |qajliTo:`9i`i`13i`10i`qb+6ub ! else insert empty 'To:'! ' ! endif! qajqb-qa,:s^elCc: `"s ! if 'Cc:' header found! -3diC:`9i` ! then do same stuff! l::s `"s-3dqb-3ub ! if additional 'Cc:' header lines! <::s `;-dqb-1ub>i `qb+1ub ! then append & kill leading spaces! l::fs `Cc:` ! Add 'Cc:' hdr if more addressee! ' ! endif! -l1xlkqaj2lgl |qaj2liCC:`9i`i`13i`10i`qb+6ub ! else insert empty 'CC:'! ' ! endif! qajqb-qa,:s^elSubject: `"s ! if 'Subject:' found! -5di:`9i`qb-3ub ! then do it again! <::s `"u0;'-dqb-1ub> ! delete leading spaces in Subj line! 0l1xlkqaj3lgl ! move Subj line to Mail-11 header! |qaj3liSubj:`9i`i`13i`10i`qb+8ub ! else! ' ! endif! 13i`10i`qb+1ub ! mark end of Mail-11 hdr! qajl2r ! goto end of From: line! .uc ! mark current pos in qc! i `goi-`gp ! insert timestmp dlmtr,yy,mm! 3r0a&223i`d0a&223i`d0a&223i`d ! upcase month! i-`gmi `gn ! add rest of timestamp! .-qc+qbub ! fixup qb! qbj-l ! goto end of headers! From `"sfrFrom `|-l'> ! replace '>From ' hack, next loop! ::sFrom `;0l ! exit loop if no more messages! >`` ! end main loop! !erase buffer, load local DCL symbol "c_line_count" with line count by: creating appropriate teco command, loading it in Q register A, and executing it! ji:egsym msg_count `qq\27i`b,.xab,.kma`` ex`` ! exit with status! $! $! exit and (hack alert) pass back count as part of return status in the $! facility number and message number fields (set the suppress msg, customer $! specific, and success status bits just to be politically correct). $ if f$inte(msg_count) .le. %x07fffff8/8 ! 16777215 in decimal $ then exit (f$inte(msg_count)*8).or.%x18000003 $ else exit 1 ! pass back count = 0 $ endif $ENDSUBROUTINE ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:32:27 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: In article <150820071723550618%nospam@yrl.co.uk>, Elliott Roper writes: > In article <130820070946381392%nospam@yrl.co.uk>, Elliott Roper > wrote: > Update: > It is now a much smaller pile, changes below. Probably not worth > bothering with unless you are close and are really keen for spares. Nice to see that most of the stuff went to a good home. Now I don't feel so bad that I didn't have a larger car and/or house. :-) The following stuff still looks interesting for hobbyists, at least for spares: > 1 x 4000 60 no memory, low-res graphics > 5 x 4000 VLC > 1 x 3100 38 SPX > 1 x 3000 (in poor state) > 4 x VT420 > 2 x VT320 > much reduced pile of various monitor and SCSI cables, power cables ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 07:47:25 -0400 From: "Carl Friedberg" Subject: Re: How to detect duplicate auto-resubmiting batch job Message-ID: <890539d90708150447v425a9b29m533eaec7a297c0fa@mail.gmail.com> .. > > $ submit /queue=sys$batch /noprinter /nonotify /restart /log=my > > $log:cleaning-'datelog'.log - > > /after="tomorrow+08:" cleaning.com .. > > Pony up for CA-SCHEDULER (or whatever it's called now). > Your issue may be related to the /restart; I've seen that happen when the system is rebooted. It's not hard to code a few lines of DCL to check if the job is already in the queue, and to resubmit if it is not there. You will want to learn how to use f$getqui, which has an interesting interface. For this kind of job (a mini-batch self-scheduler) I use the extension of .shell, rather than .com. Typically, the DCL code needed is short, and does not change. Everything else goes into a procedure with the same name, and .com extension. That way, when something changes, it's usually in the .com procedure, and the next time the batch job runs, it gets picked up. Otherwise, you have to delete the current entry and resubmit it, since the queue manager stores the File ID, not the file name. The .shell job just invokes the @procname.com after the resubmit. HTH, Carl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 05:17:00 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: How to detect duplicate auto-resubmiting batch job Message-ID: <1187180220.669938.178670@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Aug 14, 4:15 pm, vancouvercan...@yahoo.ca wrote: > Hi everybody > I have a auto-resubmiting daily disk cleaning job. It is submitted at > startup and should be resubmitting itself after running every day at > 8h00. Yesterday, I noticed I now have 3 entries for the same job, all > waiting to execute at the same time. Notwithstanding the fact that > some startup job is submitting the batch more than once(I will need to > find it!), I need to add code to my DCL procedure to verify that only > one job is present. > > What is the usual way to detect that there is only one instance/job/ > batch of the procedure running daily ? What code can I use in DCL to > verify that I have only one version of the batch job present in the > queue ? Can you provide examples ? > > Here is a part of my cleaning.com procedure: > > $ datelog = f$cvtime("tomorrow","comparison","date") > $ submit /queue=sys$batch /noprinter /nonotify /restart /log=my > $log:cleaning-'datelog'.log - > /after="tomorrow+08:" cleaning.com > $ delete my$log:*.log;*/cre/before=today-30-0 > $ ... > > Yesterday, I had 3 entries waiting to execute at 8h00. I would like > entries 2 and 3 to kill themselves if there is already a same job > present in the queue. Notice all 3 will be begin executing in the same > split second. > Suggestions ? Examples ? Links to code ? > TIA > Van Since you don't know what is submitting extra instances of your job, you'll have to do it from your job ***while it's starting***. I'd do something like this: Near the top of your procedure, before it does anything "significant": *** NOT TESTED!!! *** $ RUNDATE = F$CVTIME(,,"DATE") $ ON ERROR THEN GOTO _DATE_ERROR $ COPY NL: SYS$SCRATCH:CLEANING.'RUNDATE';1 $! (put your usual error checking ON statement here) . . . $_DATE_ERROR: $ SET NOON $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "Another instance already started for this date" $ EXIT %X18008002 *** NOT TESTED!!! *** If SYS$SCRATCH:CLEANING.'RUNDATE';1 already exists, another instance of your job created it. Trying to copy to the same version produces an error upon which you gracefully exit. Of course you'll have to arrange for something to clean up these CLEANUP.'RUNDATE';1 files, but not too early! NOTE: Searching for other instances of your job may be problematic for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that they might all start at very nearly the same time and that it will of course find itself! If you search for other instances of your job before it resubmits itself, you'll have to ignore the current running instance and it will offer no protection against that other rogue job (a system- startup procedure?) from submitting extras. The best thing to do, of course, is to track down why you're getting extra jobs in the first place and fix it. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 05:23:58 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: How to detect duplicate auto-resubmiting batch job Message-ID: <1187180638.763534.115540@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Aug 15, 7:47 am, "Carl Friedberg" wrote: > .. > > > > $ submit /queue=sys$batch /noprinter /nonotify /restart /log=my > > > $log:cleaning-'datelog'.log - > > > /after="tomorrow+08:" cleaning.com > > .. > > > > > Pony up for CA-SCHEDULER (or whatever it's called now). > > Your issue may be related to the /restart; I've seen that happen > when the system is rebooted. This could well be if the system reboots, or the job is requeued, after the job resubmits itself but before it exits. Judicious use of the BATCH$RESTART symbol is required to avoid that. > > It's not hard to code a few lines of DCL to check if the job is > already in the queue, and to resubmit if it is not there. You > will want to learn how to use f$getqui, which has an interesting > interface. But the job will be there. It's running! And that doesn't protect from an unknown submitter submitting another instance of the job at a later time. > For this kind of job (a mini-batch self-scheduler) I use the > extension of .shell, rather than .com. Typically, the DCL > code needed is short, and does not change. Everything else > goes into a procedure with the same name, and .com > extension. That way, when something changes, it's usually > in the .com procedure, and the next time the batch job runs, > it gets picked up. Otherwise, you have to delete the current > entry and resubmit it, since the queue manager stores the > File ID, not the file name. The .shell job just invokes the > @procname.com after the resubmit. > > HTH, > > Carl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 12:39:46 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: How to detect duplicate auto-resubmiting batch job Message-ID: Or use *non*-autosubmitting jobs. I uses a CRON-like tool called CRON :-) It's a DCL routine running as a detached process checking a config (text) file each even hour and anyware where the is is match (on the hour/weekday/day-of-month fields) the command (usualy a SUBMIT) on the same line is executed. Rock-sold. Starts at boot and never dies. :-) One odd thing... SHOW SYS says "Uptime 584 17:08" but the SHOW PROC/ACC on the CRON process says "Connect time 584 18:59". So the CRON process has been running for aprox 2 hours *more* then the currect uptime :-) :-) Anyway, I have currently aprox 20 SUBMIT's in the CRONTAB.DAT which is scanned each hour. Main pros : - Easy to "list" all regular batch jobs. Just TYPE the text file. No need to run SEARCH over all protential COM files... - Easy to change (or disable) any batch job. Just delete or comment the line in the text file. Or change the hour-field or whatever. The text file is re-read each cycle, so there is no need to re-start anything after an edit. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:16:11 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: How to detect duplicate auto-resubmiting batch job Message-ID: <207af$46c2fc9c$cef8887a$5983@TEKSAVVY.COM> vancouvercancun@yahoo.ca wrote: > startup procedure only submits one job. Could it be that the job is > kept in the queue after a reboot ? Yes. Jobs persist across reboots. So you'd need to first scan the queue using lexicals (F$GETQUI) to see if the job is already waiting to execute, and only submit it if it is not found. (and make sure you use SUBMIT/NAME=xxx so you can scan for a job name xxx already in the queue) The other suggestion to just exit if you can't set the process name is much simpler to implement. However, this works only if the jobs execute at a specific time. (eg: submit/after="tomorrow+00:01:00") So it doesn't matter when they are submitted, they will execute at 1 am the next day. If your jobs are submitted with /after="+23:00:00", then you could still have multiple jobs in the queue. Each job will execute again 23 hours later and multible jobs would execute at different times and never "bump" into each other. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:53:12 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: How to detect duplicate auto-resubmiting batch job Message-ID: <46C31358.70300@comcast.net> vancouvercancun@yahoo.ca wrote: > On Aug 14, 4:15 pm, vancouvercan...@yahoo.ca wrote: > >>Hi everybody >>I have a auto-resubmiting daily disk cleaning job. It is submitted at >>startup and should be resubmitting itself after running every day at >>8h00. Yesterday, I noticed I now have 3 entries for the same job, all >>waiting to execute at the same time. Notwithstanding the fact that >>some startup job is submitting the batch more than once(I will need to >>find it!), I need to add code to my DCL procedure to verify that only >>one job is present. >> >>What is the usual way to detect that there is only one instance/job/ >>batch of the procedure running daily ? What code can I use in DCL to >>verify that I have only one version of the batch job present in the >>queue ? Can you provide examples ? >> >>Here is a part of my cleaning.com procedure: >> >>$ datelog = f$cvtime("tomorrow","comparison","date") >>$ submit /queue=sys$batch /noprinter /nonotify /restart /log=my >>$log:cleaning-'datelog'.log - >> /after="tomorrow+08:" cleaning.com >>$ delete my$log:*.log;*/cre/before=today-30-0 >>$ ... >> >>Yesterday, I had 3 entries waiting to execute at 8h00. I would like >>entries 2 and 3 to kill themselves if there is already a same job >>present in the queue. Notice all 3 will be begin executing in the same >>split second. >>Suggestions ? Examples ? Links to code ? >>TIA >>Van > > > Thanks to all that responded with their suggestions. Since my jobs try > to execute at the same time, I chose to add the set process/name=XXX > command and check the $status. Looks like the following: > > $ Set NoOn > $ Set Process/Name="CLEANING" > $ if( .not. $status ) > $ then > $ write sys$output " Duplicate process name error !" > $ exit > $ endif > $ submit .... > $ delete ... > I will now search why I have more than 1 job. I am pretty sure the > startup procedure only submits one job. Could it be that the job is > kept in the queue after a reboot ? > > Van > A reboot does not clear a batch queue! Of course someone could have added code to the startup to do so but it doesn't happen by default! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:06:15 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: How to detect duplicate auto-resubmiting batch job Message-ID: <1187193975.354468.252780@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Aug 15, 10:25 am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article <1187122509.791422.293...@l22g2000prc.googlegroups.com>, vancouvercan...@yahoo.ca writes: > > > What is the usual way to detect that there is only one instance/job/ > > batch of the procedure running daily ? What code can I use in DCL to > > verify that I have only one version of the batch job present in the > > queue ? Can you provide examples ? > > I haven't seen that problem. Is someone/something doing extra > queue submissions? Looking at your snapshot it's possible that > restarts happened after the submit and before the original job > ended, you should consider updating the restart parameter on > the first line after the submit (I do). > > It is possible to query the queue manager for other entries of > the same .COM file and for the queue entry number. What I would > do if this problem continues is write the script to look for such > and then kill itself if it isn't the lowest entry number (order > isn't really important, just a hook to identify and not kill exactly > one job). And run SHOW ENTRY/FULL on the entry numbers for your multiple instances to see what time they were submitted. Might be a useful clue -- might not. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:18:26 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: installing wrong-architecture image Message-ID: Install an ALPHA image on VAX: -IMGACT-F-NOTVAXIMG, image is not an OpenVMS VAX image Install an VAX image on ALPHA: -IMGACT-F-NOTNATIVE, image is not an OpenVMS Alpha image I don't have a VAX-Itanium cluster. Install an Itanium image on an ALPHA and a message similar to the ones above is produced. But one can install an ALPHA image on Itanium. Bug or feature? Why the difference to other architecture combinations. I think one can even install anything, image or not. Of course, one can't use it (or is there some use I don't know about?). However, why do other cases bring an error message? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:30:28 -0400 From: John Reagan Subject: Re: installing wrong-architecture image Message-ID: Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > But one can install an ALPHA image on Itanium. > > Bug or feature? > > Feature. TPU section files are essential Alpha .EXE files that contain data-only. Try $ INSTALL LIST SYS$LIBRARY:EVE$SECTION.TPU$SECTION -- John Reagan OpenVMS Pascal/Macro-32/COBOL Project Leader Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:59:47 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Intel marginalizing Itanium even faster than expected? Message-ID: In article <46C24D98.84FDC435@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: >Keith Parris wrote: >> >> David J Dachtera wrote: >> > It now appears there never was an intent to continue VMS past Itanic. >> >> I've seen public statements that the work done for the Itanium port >> makes future ports easier, and even that HP _expects_ to port to other >> architectures in the future -- that's just the way things go: whole new >> sets of CPU architectures/technology arise in the industry every decade >> or so. >> >> > HP's >> > intent was to supplant VMS with UX and the only way to do that was to eliminate >> > VMS's operating platforms: first Alpha as a condition of the Compaq merger, now >> > Itanic, apparently the hidden part of agenda. >> >> There's a fatal flaw in this logic: HP-UX runs on Itanium too, so >> eliminating Itanium would eliminate the HP-UX platform too. Better find >> a better hypothesis. :-) > >Try again. See the "binary Compatibility" page: >http://www.intel.com/cd/ids/developer/asmo-na/eng/technologies/64bit/170114.htm?page=4 >(URL is likely to have wrapped) > >"Interestingly, binaries for Hewlett-Packard's PA-RISC architecture >can also be run without modification. To run these binaries, sites >must use Aries* software that HP will bundle with all its systems. >Aries performs two primary functions: it performs dynamic translation >of PA-RISC binaries into native 64-bit processor instructions for >immediate execution, and it performs interpretation of other, lesser- >used PA-RISC commands" > The target for Aries is Itanium. To a first approximation think VEST/AEST. See http://devresource.hp.com/drc/STK/docs/refs/Aries.jsp >...., ostensibly a form of "PEST" (PA-RISC Executable (S?) Translation) for >PA-RISC executables. So, porting to EM64T is likely to not be a huge issue for >UX, except perhaps where "endianness" is concerned. You would first need to rewrite Aries to target EM64T. Also Aries does not support emulation of privileged PA instructions which are used by the OS. Saying that you could just port HP-UX to EM64T by rewriting Aries would be like thinking you could just port VMS to EM64T by just rewriting AEST. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University >That could pose a challenge, >I suppose, unless the difference can be made up in software without a >significant performance hit (remember MicroVAXes and VAX floating point?). > >Since HP does not properly understand "business needs", however, the probability >of a VMS port to EM64T is effectively nil. > >-- >David J Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/ > >Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page >http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ > >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ > >Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: >http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ > >Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: >http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:18:33 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Intel marginalizing Itanium even faster than expected? Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Johnson [mailto:ron.l.johnson@cox.net] > Sent: August 14, 2007 10:43 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Intel marginalizing Itanium even faster than expected? > > On 08/14/07 15:55, Main, Kerry wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- From: Ron Johnson > >> [mailto:ron.l.johnson@cox.net] Sent: August 14, 2007 1:15 PM > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com Subject: Re: Intel marginalizing > >> Itanium even faster than expected? > >> > >> On 08/14/07 09:39, Tom Linden wrote: > >>> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 07:17:04 -0700, Keith Parris > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> There's a fatal flaw in this logic: HP-UX runs on Itanium > >>>> too, so eliminating Itanium would eliminate the HP-UX > >>>> platform too. Better find a better hypothesis. > >>> I imagine that it would not be too difficult to port HP-UX to > >>> another platform > >> I think it would be simpler to harden & add features to Linux > >> (both kernel and userland). > >> > >> -- > > > > And how would you propose that HP do this when it does not own or > > control the kernel? > > Regarding the kernel, they'd do it the same way that IBM, Oracle, > Intel, Red Hat, etc, etc, ad nauseum do: release the code under the > GPL2 and get it into the mainline. > Lets get real here. Large vendors are very competitive and the only one who really determines what goes into the Linux kernel is Linus T. So, Oracle releases some cluster code which will allow RAC to work better and IBM releases some cluster code which will make WebSphere work better. And to play devils advocate for a second - What goes into the kernel? What if clustering is not as hot a topic for Linus as scalability, SMP or a host of other considerations? Who prioritizes what goes in because every release is all about trade-off between new features, compatibility and schedules. Do you really think IBM, HP, Oracle etc are all going to base their future directions on what one person believes should be "allowed" into the Linux kernel? Again, lets get back to reality here and drop the hype ok? > Regarding userland code: there's no law that says that userland must > be open source. (After all, Oracle makes a pretty penny selling > licenses for RDBMSs that run on Linux.) > Sure they do, but for them the platform does not matter as they charge the same for Oracle on Windows, Linux, OpenVMS, Solaris, HP-UX etc. The only real difference is in the area of multi-socket systems. The challenge is how to increase the scalability of Oracle on Linux when changes are required at the kernel level. That is one area where IBM (DB2/A= IX) and Microsoft (SQL Server) have a big advantage over Oracle ie. they contro= l the OS kernel and the DB. [sidebar note - it was stated at one time that one of the primary design factors that go into Windows kernel is how to make SQL Server run better.] Do you think this is lost on Oracle? No way. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:53:52 +0200 From: Michael Unger Subject: Re: Intel marginalizing Itanium even faster than expected? Message-ID: <5igm26F3ogoalU2@mid.individual.net> On 2007-08-14 21:38, "FredK" wrote: > [...] > Or POWER - noticed how IBM appears to be hiding how much they make/lose on > the chip business? It is very, very expensive to maintain the ability to > design and FAB your own chips with cutting edge processes. Most customers don't want to buy *chips* only -- they want to buy *systems* of course ... > [...] So profit is made with systems, software and services. Michael -- Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 12:38:40 -0400 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: Intel marginalizing Itanium even faster than expected? Message-ID: "Michael Unger" wrote in message news:5igm26F3ogoalU2@mid.individual.net... > On 2007-08-14 21:38, "FredK" wrote: > >> [...] >> Or POWER - noticed how IBM appears to be hiding how much they make/lose >> on >> the chip business? It is very, very expensive to maintain the ability to >> design and FAB your own chips with cutting edge processes. > > Most customers don't want to buy *chips* only -- they want to buy > *systems* of course ... > You'd think so, but would be confused by the focus on the chip architecture here. The cost of desiging and FABing cutting edge chip technology is huge and becomes part of the cost of the system. By having unique parts like EV7 for example, the systems themselves are then also composed of mostly custom ASICs and can't be amortized. >> [...] > > So profit is made with systems, software and services. > Minus the cost to build the systems, and buy or make the parts, and write the software, and sell the systems, and perform the service, etc. Business 101? So I'm not sure what the point is. If the parts are cheaper, and the systems especially at the low and mid0range begin to be able to share things with higher volume systems, and in fact the systems can also run all the common OSes (Windows, Linux) - plus your own home-grown ones (HP-UX, VMS, NSK)... it all makes perfect sense if you are trying to sustain a long term business. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:07:53 -0000 From: issinoho Subject: Re: Node & Port allocation classes on a new cluster Message-ID: <1187183273.617131.10000@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Aug 15, 12:45 am, John Santos wrote: > Michael Moroney wrote: > > s...@obanion.us writes: > > >>I think the crux of this is: > >>What are you going to MSCP serve these disks to? > > >>Keeping in mind that MSCP serving will take place over the Ethernet > >>and not the SAN, since both nodes are connected to the same SAN, and > >>in this case the same storage controler, there is no need to MSCP > >>serve from one node to the other. Supporting failover if SAN > >>connectivity is lost is often not usefull because the bandwidth of > >>Ethernet is not large engouh. > > > VMS always uses the direct path if both direct and MSCP paths are > > available. Lower bandwidth MSCP serving will only happen if the > > direct path is somehow lost. Also, if he wants to make the system > > disks (and any other local disks such as CDROMs) available to each other, > > he'll want the MSCP server. > > It sounds like you won't be having a shared common system disk, but > separate local system disks for each rx2660. > > Since the system disks are not shared (DKA disks), but are on local > SCSI buses, MSCP serving them would be very convenient for system > management tasks. Direct access instead of using DECnet remote > access or FTP, etc. > > You'll want to put all the common files on one of the shared MSA > disks, but you'll still have a few things on the local disks, such > as systartup_vms.com, modparams.dat, etc., and if you discover > you need to bump the default for some system parameter, you will > probably want to do it on both systems, and it will be a lot > easier with direct access to both system disks from a single > login. > > The Ethernet ports on the RX2660 are Gigabit-capable, so they won't > be all that slow (says someone who's been running a cluster on 10Mb > half-duplex Ethernet for many years!) > > My rx2620 has two ethernet ports; if the rx2660 is the same, you > could directly connect one pair of them with a cross-over cable > (unless they autosense, in which case a straight-through patch > cable would also work), and put all your SCS traffic on the > private "LAN". Or get a GB switch ($20-$40 for a cheap one at > MicroCenter), and use it just for cluster traffic. MSCP would > be even faster that way. > > -- > John Santos > Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. > 781-861-0670 ext 539 John, you have described my config *exactly* Thanks for your help, my cluster is up & running now. On the subject of using the 2nd LAN card for SCS traffic, how exactly does one tell the system to do this? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:33:37 +0100 From: "R.A.Omond" Subject: Storageworks SAN Switches: possible to reset password ? Message-ID: Gentle colleagues, I have, ahem, "inherited" two SANswitches: Compaq StorageWorks SAN Switch 16 /158223-B21/DS-DSGGB-AB/158829-001 Compaq StorageWorks SAN Switch 8 /158222-B21/DS-DSGGB-AA/158828-001 They appear to require a password in order to be able to reconfigure them. Unfortunately I don't have the password, and the previous owner is, ahem, "not reachable". Would anyone know if it's possible to reset them to factory settings by some method (magic incantation ? biting-head-off-chicken ?). Many thanks (and a beverage of choice) to anyone who can help. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:55:41 +0200 From: Jur van der Burg <"lddriver at digiater dot nl"> Subject: Re: Storageworks SAN Switches: possible to reset password ? Message-ID: <46c32200$0$228$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> There's a 'reset to default' option in the menu that you can reach from the front panel switches. Jur. R.A.Omond wrote: > Gentle colleagues, > > I have, ahem, "inherited" two SANswitches: > > Compaq StorageWorks SAN Switch 16 /158223-B21/DS-DSGGB-AB/158829-001 > Compaq StorageWorks SAN Switch 8 /158222-B21/DS-DSGGB-AA/158828-001 > > They appear to require a password in order to be able to reconfigure > them. Unfortunately I don't have the password, and the previous > owner is, ahem, "not reachable". > > Would anyone know if it's possible to reset them to factory settings > by some method (magic incantation ? biting-head-off-chicken ?). > > Many thanks (and a beverage of choice) to anyone who can help. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Aug 2007 06:59:14 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: In article , Ron Johnson writes: > > Apparently, lots of people seem to think that Linux is usable. I use it a lot, too. But all those experiences don't negate the reality of my needs. > > Because it costs *money* to create (and keep current) extensive > *good* documentation with lots of examples. Duh. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:00:04 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Johnson [mailto:ron.l.johnson@cox.net] > Sent: August 14, 2007 10:58 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal > champion > [snip] > > > > Fwiw, Gartner likes to call it the hype curve. A technology becomes > white > > hot, then crashes as people find out it does not do everything it was > > expected to, then arises again at a much lower level more in line > with > > reasonable expectations of what that technology is best suited for. > > Like Windows isn't as stable and secure as my grandmother's broken > hip, so people are flocking away from it back on to OpenVMS? > > Puh-leeze. Huh? Who said anything about "flocking to OpenVMS?" However, since you brought it up, the number one server consolidation targe= t by far in almost every med to large company to today is Windows. Unfortunately= , because of the one app, one server culture and platform technology challeng= es, it is not considered viable to consolidate with App stacking on Windows, so= prod's like VMware are going through the roof. Ever wonder why VMware stock is so hot right now? Now you know why. Unfortunately, while VMware saves some $'s on DC power, space etc, it does = not Reduce OS licensing (actually increases it) or FTE counts. And remember tha= t FTE counts are directly related to the number of OS's required to be manage= d. So, VMware is a short term solution that buys some breathing room, but the = next Big cost reduction push is going to be reducing OS instances and App stacki= ng And this is an area where Windows and Linux environments will have both cul= tural and technology challenges. > > > [snip] > > > > Pure personal opinion, but based on various discussions with senior > IT > > managers, there appears to be another emerging trend that may run > counter > > to the Linux type movement. > > > > Senior IT managers want their senior IT folks interacting more with > the > > lines of business to better educate the business types on how IT can > help > > solve their business problems. They do not want their senior IT folks > playing > > in the OS weeds dealing with the patch of the day support, > compatibility and > > other low level OS issues. > > Puh-leeze again. > > When was the last time that a senior IT person played in the OS weeds? > > That's correct: back when he was a mid-layer IT person. > Huh? Surely you jest? There is a huge number of Senior SysAdmins testing, learning, developing scripts, etc on Linux today. These are the same IT staff that have been around for a long time and under= stand the business and how IT works in the company. Rather than have them playing= in the OS weeds, senior IT Managers would rather have them learning and interf= acing more with the BU's and let other vendors provide the low level Windows/Linu= x support stuff. Of course, your mileage ay differ, but I certainly see this in a number of large companies I have been involved with. > > For this low level OS support stuff, they would rather pay some other > vendor > > To provide Support - especially since this is only a small part of > the overall > > IT budget (IT staffing is 60-70% of IT budget). > > > > Interesting times ahead. > > Outsource OS support like they outsource programming and the hell desk? > > -- Its more a case of elevating and/or promoting those who understand how tech= nology can assist the business to become more competitive. And lets face it, maintaining Windows and Linux with 5-20 security patches = per month across hundreds of Prod/Dev/Test "one app-one server" servers and tha= t are owned by many different groups is no small amount of effort. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.446 ************************