INFO-VAX Wed, 27 Jun 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 348 Contents: Re: And the question was? (Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com ac Re: Catch OPCOM messages (in PASCAL) Re: Catch OPCOM messages (in PASCAL) Re: closing all open files on a shadow set Re: closing all open files on a shadow set Re: closing all open files on a shadow set Re: EVA/ Itanium question Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option SSH Newbie Question 2 Re: SSH Newbie Question 2 Re: SSH Newbie Question 2 Supercomputer rankings Re: Supercomputer rankings Re: Tech support Re: Tech support Re: Tech support Re: Tech support Re: Tech support Re: Tech support ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 Jun 2007 17:39:35 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: And the question was? (Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com ac Message-ID: <5eflmmF389bctU2@mid.individual.net> In article <6LXlI81f5YuC@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article , "Tom Linden" writes: >> The compiler pads if you specifiy ALIGNED on the structure declaration, >> otherwise not. > > That may be true for your PL/I compilers, but it's not true in > general. True, as things like C and Pascal don't have any language concept of "alignment". > > I worked with an HP C compiler under HP-UX where alignment depended > on surounding data, so even putting a structure in an .h file and > including the .h file in two different programs resulted in two > differen pads. That compiler had no alignment/padding control > directives or compiler options. I believe the "ALIGNED" he is using above is a languagte delclaration, not a compiler option. But I could be wrong, I haven't done any PL/I in over 20 years. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 06:32:57 GMT From: Chris Sharman Subject: Re: Catch OPCOM messages (in PASCAL) Message-ID: Walter Kuhn wrote: > Hello group, > > I am trying to catch opcom messages from a (PASCAL) program, but it doesn't > work. The idea of the program is as follows: I did it in Pascal, years ago - look for nightwatchman on freeware or old decus stuff. Alternatively I could email it to you. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 09:24:23 +0200 From: "Walter Kuhn" Subject: Re: Catch OPCOM messages (in PASCAL) Message-ID: <468210b0$0$25623$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> Hallo, thank you, it would be great if you could email it. Walter "Chris Sharman" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:twngi.28575$aS5.26500@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk... > Walter Kuhn wrote: >> Hello group, >> >> I am trying to catch opcom messages from a (PASCAL) program, but it >> doesn't work. The idea of the program is as follows: > > I did it in Pascal, years ago - look for nightwatchman on freeware or old > decus stuff. Alternatively I could email it to you. > > Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 01:58:27 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: closing all open files on a shadow set Message-ID: <41849$4681fca2$cef8887a$14910@TEKSAVVY.COM> tomarsin2015@comcast.net wrote: > Even thru I shutdown the applications, there are still open files that > belong to pid 00000000. Installed images and possibly global sections. You'd probably have to do a SHOW DEVICE Dxxx: /OUTPUT=TEMP.TMP and then parse the file and process any/all files in it. If the pid is non zero, you kill that process. If the process is 0000000, then you do a INSTALL DELETE disk: And to be perfectly sure, you need to execute this on every node in the cluster to ensure the disk is truly cleanly dismoutable. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 16:04:24 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: closing all open files on a shadow set Message-ID: tomarsin2015@comcast.net wrote: > Even thru I shutdown the applications, there are still open files that > belong to pid 00000000. You probably know this, but just in case you don't, the files [000000]INDEXF.SYS and (if quotas are enabled) [000000]QUOTA.SYS are always open by pid 00000000 on any mounted disk. That's normal, and the only way to close them is to dismount the disk. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 16:20:49 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: closing all open files on a shadow set Message-ID: tomarsin2015@comcast.net wrote: > Even thru I shutdown the applications, there are still open files that > belong to pid 00000000. If your "shutdown" routiones does not de-install installed images, that's normal. EXE files belonging to pid 00000000 are *installed* files. Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:29:55 -0700 From: "Don.Zong@gmail.com" Subject: Re: EVA/ Itanium question Message-ID: <1182965395.693090.72040@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com> Sorry for the confusion, this is for upgrade, we snap-cloned the system disk, then do the upgrade on the new system disk, now it is time to let production boot off new system disk, we would like change the LUN assignment on the new system disk to match the old one so we don't need to change boot options on every server, will this work? On Jun 26, 9:29 pm, David J Dachtera wrote: > "Don.Z...@gmail.com" wrote: > > > we have a system disk on eva say $1$dga21, now we snapcloned the > > system disk say $1$dga22, and we would like to test $1$dga22, can we > > just change the lun assignment $1$dga22 to $1$dga21, and boot the > > server as it usually does, is that simple? is there anything we need > > to change on EFI side ie re-config boot options etc ? > > Not sure what you're going for here. > > Why would you want to "test" a snap-clone? To see if it really did build a 100% > accurate clone? > > I understand that certifications can be rigorous, just seems like DEC/Compaq > would have certified that part of the code before HP acquired the product. Dunno > if my shop would need to duplicate their efforts. > > -- > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systemshttp://www.djesys.com/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Pagehttp://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ > > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jun 2007 12:33:11 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: <5ef3o7F38ja2eU1@mid.individual.net> In article <54bb4$468246e6$cef8887a$31046@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei writes: > david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >> Like it or not Windows servers are used in the datacentre (and because of >> Windows need for one application per server they end up with lots of windows >> boxes). Noone would take it seriously if Windows wasn't in the mix. > > And here is a problem. Because it takes a lot of windows boxes to > accomplish simple tasks, Windows gets an exagerated market share because > that is counted based on number of boxes, not how much work they do. > > If Windows server consolidation were really really taken to the limit, > you might find Windows has a small presence in the real data centres > because like for unix and vms and MVS, they'd have one box to do their work. If Windows were consolidated at the rate of 10:1 it would still outnumber VMS by at least 100:1. People here really need to face reality. Windows is not as bad as you would like to think. Just because a bunch of home machines (mostly running the original Windows install they came with) get hacked doesn't mean that the boxes in the datacenter are that easy to break. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jun 2007 13:02:00 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: <5ef5e8F37dijpU2@mid.individual.net> In article <5BSqJKYqaNi+@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article <54bb4$468246e6$cef8887a$31046@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: >> >> And here is a problem. Because it takes a lot of windows boxes to >> accomplish simple tasks, Windows gets an exagerated market share because >> that is counted based on number of boxes, not how much work they do. > > But you CIO doesn't care because he can buy 2 Windows boxes for the > price of a VMS box and have money left over to take the department > out to lunch. > > So if you need three VMS boxes to have a VMScluster that keeps quorum > in a share-everything way when a datacenter goes down and six Windows > boxes to convince the CIO he's getting the same thing in a > shared-nothing way, he's happy. Ummm..... Didn't the exploding datacenter video that has everybody in this group dancing in the street show Windows systems recovering without data loss just like the VMS system, only a little bit slower? Considering that the alternative int he past has been recovery mesaured in days, weeks or even months I wold bet that most management types would be more than pleased with the recovey time of the Windows boxes in this demo. I know everyone loved it, but you do realize that even though it was a rare mention of VMS it basicly showed that HPUX, Linux and even Windows can do the same thing. Not so sure that was a big help to extending the life of VMS. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jun 2007 12:10:35 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: In article <5ef5e8F37dijpU2@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > Ummm..... Didn't the exploding datacenter video that has everybody > in this group dancing in the street show Windows systems recovering > without data loss just like the VMS system, only a little bit slower? I didn't see anything that convinced me that Windows compares in any way to VMS. I saw something that promoted HP's configuration, which could readily be due to hardware alone. More importantly, I didn't see whether VMS was in a shared-everything cluster (the way VMSclusters normally operate). Windows just can't do that. Disaster recovery is only one capability addressed by VMScluster technology, and in my case it's one of the few capabilities I've never had to count on. So nothing in the video convinces me in any way that I should consider Windows as a viable alternative to VMS. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:13:46 +0200 From: "Gorazd Kikelj" Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: "Bob Koehler" wrote in message news:t5WrkbwX8g67@eisner.encompasserve.org... > In article <5ef5e8F37dijpU2@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > > > More importantly, I didn't see whether VMS was in a shared-everything > cluster (the way VMSclusters normally operate). Windows just can't > do that. > It was normal shared everything OpenVMS DT configuration with 3 sites and HBVS. Best, Gorazd ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jun 2007 17:35:32 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: <5eflf4F389bctU1@mid.individual.net> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article <5ef5e8F37dijpU2@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >> Ummm..... Didn't the exploding datacenter video that has everybody >> in this group dancing in the street show Windows systems recovering >> without data loss just like the VMS system, only a little bit slower? > > I didn't see anything that convinced me that Windows compares in any > way to VMS. I saw something that promoted HP's configuration, which > could readily be due to hardware alone. > > More importantly, I didn't see whether VMS was in a shared-everything > cluster (the way VMSclusters normally operate). Windows just can't > do that. There you go with all the geek speak again. What will management types see when they watch that video? And what did HP really want to show them? All the OSes involved survived in what is presented as an equal way. When these same managers evaluate what they saw and the cost of each option, and the industry's acceptance of each option, which one do you think is going to come out on top? > > Disaster recovery is only one capability addressed by VMScluster > technology, and in my case it's one of the few capabilities I've > never had to count on. So nothing in the video convinces me in any > way that I should consider Windows as a viable alternative to VMS. But your a geek. What would a CEO or a COO think? They are the one's who control the purse strings. Not the geeks locked in the basement. And, it still completely ignores the fact that most people here's hatred for all things MS has blinded them to the fact that the Windows systems can be both secure and efficient. But I am not going to convince anyone of that. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 13:50:27 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: <599c4$4682a382$cef8887a$13503@TEKSAVVY.COM> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > There you go with all the geek speak again. What will management > types see when they watch that video? It will confirm that their original choice fr Windows used for real stuff wasn't a mistake after all since Windows can do DR now. But it will also tell them that VMS is still around. But unless HP provides them with a good presentation that shows the DR advantages and disadvantages of each platform, those CIOs won't know why they should bother looking into VMS for their solutions. I and doubt that HP sales ever mention VMS to their real customers. Remember that VMS is meant to be used only by the existing installed base. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 06:02:37 -0000 From: rexruger@gmail.com Subject: SSH Newbie Question 2 Message-ID: <1182924157.009103.312000@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com> Hi, I am new to SSH on VMS. I was hoping someone may be able to provide the steps so that I can login from NODE A to NODE B without using a password. At the moment I can get SSH to work using a password. My username's are consistent on both nodes so if I was logged into NODE A using account ACC1. I would like to SSH to NODE B to account ACC1. I'm running 8.3, TCP V5.6 - ECO 1. Thanks for any help ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 01:32:58 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: SSH Newbie Question 2 Message-ID: <07062701325842_202003EE@antinode.org> From: rexruger@gmail.com > I am new to SSH on VMS. Who isn't? > I was hoping someone may be able to provide the steps so that I can > login from NODE A to NODE B without using a password. It's much like SSH on a non-VMS system, except that the key files use formats different from the more common OpenSSH key file formats. You need to make a set of key files, and propagate the critical bits around to the systems of interest. (Into [.SSH2] under SYS$LOGIN.) > At the moment I can get SSH to work using a password. Ok. It's a start. > My username's are consistent on both nodes so if I was logged into > NODE A using account ACC1. I would like to SSH to NODE B to account > ACC1. Doesn't matter much. "-l login_name" could handle it if they were different. > I'm running 8.3, TCP V5.6 - ECO 1. http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/index.html http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/tcpip56.html http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/83final/BA548_90007/index.html When you think that it ought to work but it doesn't, collect the droppings from "ssh -v node_b" and come back. A search for things like openvms ssh at the ITRC could turn up something useful, too: http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/familyhome.do?familyId=288 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 07:00:49 -0000 From: rexruger@gmail.com Subject: Re: SSH Newbie Question 2 Message-ID: <1182927649.906579.155810@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> Thanks for your reply Steven, much appreciated I got it to work. Just have to work out exactly what I did that made it work :-) , probably ssh_add Better do some in depth reading on this stuff ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 04:17:59 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Supercomputer rankings Message-ID: A new list is to be made available today. A glimpse of the architectures: ## Intel managed to increase its lead over Advanced Micro Devices in the number of systems using x86 processors. Just over half--52 percent--of the systems use Intel's x86 chips, up from 45.6 percent, while AMD's share shrunk from a 22.6 percent share to 21.2 percent. Intel's Itanium processors are beginning to move off the list, appearing in 28 of the 500 systems, down from last year's count of 35. ## 40% of the top 500 are from HP. The 28 out of 500 systems based on that IA64 thing represent 0.056% of the total. Not quite "maintream" , "commodity" or "industry standard" that HP would like us to believe. ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jun 2007 12:57:08 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Supercomputer rankings Message-ID: <5ef554F37dijpU1@mid.individual.net> In article , JF Mezei writes: > A new list is to be made available today. A glimpse of the architectures: > > ## > Intel managed to increase its lead over Advanced Micro Devices in the > number of systems using x86 processors. Just over half--52 percent--of > the systems use Intel's x86 chips, up from 45.6 percent, while AMD's > share shrunk from a 22.6 percent share to 21.2 percent. Yes, but what of the AMD64? COuld it be that the decrease in AMD's x86 use was offset by an increase in amd64 use? I know the two servers I just got to set up this Summer for use this Fall are both amd64. And based on discussions with my boss, it is unlikley that anything not destined for the desktop will be less than amd64 from now on. Can't say how soon the desktops will start moving that way. > Intel's Itanium > processors are beginning to move off the list, appearing in 28 of the > 500 systems, down from last year's count of 35. > ## > > > 40% of the top 500 are from HP. > > The 28 out of 500 systems based on that IA64 thing represent 0.056% of > the total. Not quite "maintream" , "commodity" or "industry standard" > that HP would like us to believe. Itanium is totally irrelevant. Even dicussing it any more is laughable. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 01:10:37 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Tech support Message-ID: <07062701103757_202003EE@antinode.org> From: "Carl Friedberg" > [...] you got some one in Costa Rica, who could not understand > enough English to properly route you to the right area of support. > [...] I have a lawyer buddy who, in this situation, has been heard to say to the ESL student on the other end of the phone line: You think you're speaking English, but you're not. He follows that with a request for someone who actually _does_ speak English, and that sometimes works. (He's an entertaining guy, and/or I'm easily entertained.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 09:14:57 +0200 From: "Gorazd Kikelj" Subject: Re: Tech support Message-ID: "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote in message news:4681B84E.5050400@comcast.net... ... > My last experience with the "Manager on Duty" was ca. 2003 in the USA. I > have not had access to DEC/CPQ/HP technical support since August of 2004. > > The last time I used ITRC, again ca. 2003-2004 I had to call technical > support in Colorado for help in finding what I was looking for. This was > shortly after they shut down the DEC/Compaq facility we used to use; I > forget now what we called it. At that time, ITRC was just about unusable! > I've had no experience since August of 2004 and have no idea if it's any > better now. I use ITRC case logging when I have no access to HP network. But what ITRC gave you is direct contact with HP Support people. You can bypass a call agent (or at least most conversation with it) and shorten a time required to do qualification. If you describe your problem clearily and provide logs and screenshots and other relevant informations, case is usualy very quickly resolved. With proper user setup at ITRC portal (link contracts to your account), you don't need to remember all those long contract numbers and product/serial numbers and only select the ofended system. To further unload hardware call creating and qualifiying from people to machines I use ISEE client on any HP system that has at least warranty active. I have literaly hundreds of systems that report HW errors to HP with all relevant contact/contract/error informations. For me, as L1 support, this is a preferred way. I get all informations I need to go to logistics and pick up a right spare part and repair the system. And all this 24x7 with no additional cost for customer for monitoring their systems. If you have HP SIM implemented in a company, you can, with only one ISEE client installation, monitor all systems in HP SIM domain. With HP SIM 5.1 there is a new client HP Service Essentials Remote Support Pack integrated in it and provide a realy easy implementation/deployment and a lot of features that are missing in old ISEE client deployment. For now it is only for windows and linux, but will get also on other platforms. http://h18013.www1.hp.com/products/servers/management/hpsim/index.html?jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN I have some big (at least for our country) OpenVMS clusters on ISEE monitoring. There is rearly a case from those systems :-). But when it is, I have all informations at my hand to act very quickly. What is also a big benefit from ISEE client on OpenVMS is, that we also get crashdump info, if crash occur. Happens very rearly, but you can act apon it with right information provided in the first call. Best, Gorazd ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 07:46:24 -0400 From: "William Webb" Subject: Re: Tech support Message-ID: <8660a3a10706270446r5788bbnabdff50d1a0996b5@mail.gmail.com> I have suggested to several senior people at HP that they need to add a field to whatever screen it is that comes up when they locate an individual in connection with a support contract that indicates something like "This customer knows what the heck he's talking about." That way it would bypass the almost-obligatory ten or fifteen minutes spent in attempts to explain the reason for your call to a Level 1 support technician who may or may not understand what you're talking about. WWWebb On 26 Jun 2007 11:51:12 -0500, Rob Brooks wrote: > DeanW writes: > > > > He was missing fundamental knowledge of computers, to wit: My system > > is crashed and won't boot. Asking me to forward the last few lines of > > SYS$ERRORLOG is really a waste of time better used looking up someone > > who can make useful suggestions. > > When I was a customer and was unpleased with the support I got, I asked > for the Manager on Duty (the MOD), and that usually got me the help > I needed. I have no idea if that concept still exists, but if one > is getting substandard support, the only way that it'll get better is if > you paying customers complain loudly. > > If you truly get someone who has no clue, you really must ask to speak to > someone more senior; keep on doing that until you get someone who understands > the problem. > > I have no idea what metrics are used to track the support specialists, but > if customers routinely ask to escalate the problem, someone in management will > notice. > > HP prides itself on support; if you are unhappy, please complain. > > Yeah, I agree it should not come to that, but unfortunately it has. > > -- > > Rob Brooks MSL -- Nashua brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com > ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jun 2007 07:35:49 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Tech support Message-ID: In article <1382t18e9g044df@corp.supernews.com>, "Syltrem" writes: > > And think of it from the positive side : India is a enormous market > > HP is training people to use VMS. They may not stay in customer support all > their life. > Not all of the IT growth in India is outsourcing call centers. The Indian economy is growing and there's a large growth in IT in India for Indian businesses. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 13:26:41 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Tech support Message-ID: <46829DD1.4080907@comcast.net> Gorazd Kikelj wrote: > "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote in message > news:4681B84E.5050400@comcast.net... > ... > >>My last experience with the "Manager on Duty" was ca. 2003 in the USA. I >>have not had access to DEC/CPQ/HP technical support since August of 2004. >> >>The last time I used ITRC, again ca. 2003-2004 I had to call technical >>support in Colorado for help in finding what I was looking for. This was >>shortly after they shut down the DEC/Compaq facility we used to use; I >>forget now what we called it. At that time, ITRC was just about unusable! >>I've had no experience since August of 2004 and have no idea if it's any >>better now. > > > I use ITRC case logging when I have no access to HP network. But what ITRC > gave you is direct contact with HP Support people. You can bypass a call > agent (or at least most conversation with it) and shorten a time required to > do qualification. > > If you describe your problem clearily and provide logs and screenshots and > other relevant informations, case is usualy very quickly resolved. > > With proper user setup at ITRC portal (link contracts to your account), you > don't need to remember all those long contract numbers and product/serial > numbers and only select the ofended system. I just remembered another detail. When HP took over and shut down the DEC/Compaq support system they neglected to provide us with numbers that worked on the HP support system. The DEC/Compaq contract numbers never did work AFAIR. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 13:35:30 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Tech support Message-ID: <46829FE2.8000502@comcast.net> William Webb wrote: > I have suggested to several senior people at HP that they need to add > a field to > whatever screen it is that comes up when they locate an individual in > connection > with a support contract that indicates something like "This customer > knows what the heck he's talking about." > > That way it would bypass the almost-obligatory ten or fifteen minutes > spent in attempts to explain the reason for your call to a Level 1 > support technician who > may or may not understand what you're talking about. > The first level support people USED to know enough to get you to the right second level support person. I do recall one call when I finally had to tell the first level support "I don't think we're speaking the same language" (and I didn't mean English; the guy just didn't know the subject matter) and asked to speak with Smiley Smith who did speak my language very well! Thank you Smiley, wherever you are. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.348 ************************