INFO-VAX Wed, 27 Jun 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 347 Contents: Re: And the question was? (Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com Re: And the question was? (Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com a Re: And the question was? (Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com a Re: And the question was? (Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com ac Re: And the question was? (Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com ac Re: And the question was? (Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com ac Re: Catch OPCOM messages (in PASCAL) Re: Catch OPCOM messages (in PASCAL) Re: Catch OPCOM messages (in PASCAL) closing all open files on a shadow set Re: closing all open files on a shadow set cURL 7.16.3 available Re: cURL 7.16.3 available EVA/ Itanium question Re: EVA/ Itanium question RE: EVA/ Itanium question gSOAP on OpenVMS? VMS as Web Service *client* Re: gSOAP on OpenVMS? VMS as Web Service *client* Re: gSOAP on OpenVMS? VMS as Web Service *client* Re: gSOAP on OpenVMS? VMS as Web Service *client* Re: gSOAP on OpenVMS? VMS as Web Service *client* Re: HP "Support" for OpenVMS Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: Organised letter writing to Hurd ? Re: Tech support Re: Tech support Re: Tech support Re: Tech support Re: Tech support Re: Tech support Re: Tech support Re: Tech support Re: Tech support Re: Tech support Re: Tech support Re: Virtual serial ports on a MAC ? Re: Virtual serial ports on a MAC ? RE: Virtual serial ports on a MAC ? Re: Virtual serial ports on a MAC ? Re: VMS - Alpha Server - Software AG Tamino Replacement ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 02:11:10 +0200 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: And the question was? (Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com Message-ID: Bill Todd schrieb: > Both prospects are at least somewhat hampered by the fact that both > those environments are big-endian (and are old enough that some > significant amount of code - including third-party code which may not be > amenable to being massaged - may well depend upon this), while x86-64 is > little-endian. IMHO these endianness issues shouldn't be such a problem. Any half-decent app developped in the past 10, 15 or maybe even 20 years, which stores its data in binary format has sort of a byte-order indicator in its output data, so the reader could swap the bytes accordingly. And those who haven't probably deserve to die anyway. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:38:51 -0400 From: Bill Todd Subject: Re: And the question was? (Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com a Message-ID: <8IednT5pIcDnwBzbnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com> John Smith wrote: ... HP couldn't really care about which > processor PH-UX runs on - x86-64 ought to be fine for it; Tandem - well > those companies that use it are mostly price insensitive and are used to > being well lubed, so a modified x86-64 for its use could probably be > produced for a lot less than Intel sinking more money into Itanic. Both prospects are at least somewhat hampered by the fact that both those environments are big-endian (and are old enough that some significant amount of code - including third-party code which may not be amenable to being massaged - may well depend upon this), while x86-64 is little-endian. (VMS, of course, is also little-endian, so porting it to x86-64 would not encounter this particular obstacle.) - bill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:11:03 +0200 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: And the question was? (Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com a Message-ID: <468172d7$0$7609$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk> John Smith wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: >> AEF wrote: >>> Besides, you been claiming VMS faced imminent death for years as Rob >>> Young has pointed out months (years?) ago. What's different this >>> time? >> >> >> I have not claimed VMS faces imminent death. But what is clear is >> that VMS is slowly being poisoned and eventually, HP will just put >> it out of its misery. >> >> You need to look at it from HP's point of view. They have no >> intentions >> of growing VMS. Their only intentions are to move as many VMS >> customers >> to their selected platform as possible. >> >> If they sell VMS to Bruden or Process (or a joint venture of both), >> then HP will lose a greater percentage of customers to those >> companies who >> will also sell support than if HP lies to customers with fake >> roadmaps and fully intends to convert them to HP-UX. >> >> Messges such as Livermore's are intended to get ISVs to rething their >> commitment to VMS. When an ISV like Cerner announces it is dropping >> VMS support, the stain goes on Cerner and not HP so people aren't so >> mad at HP. >> >> It is our role as VMS loyalist to ensure that HP doesn't get away >> with this tactic by pointing out that in the case of Cerner, surely >> there has been a deal by HP to urge Cerner to move to HP-UX. It was >> certaintly >> not customer requests that pushed that. So if the blame for the loss >> of Cerner lais flat on HP's face in the public eye, then HP will >> learn that it cannot do this anymore. >> >> And we need to convince HP that there is NOTHING WRONG WITH GROWING >> VMS. >> >> If HP sells VMS to Bruden/Process, at least customers will not yhold >> a grudge against HP and may continue to buy HP's coloured water in >> expensive small containers. >> >> If HP continues to act to quicken VMS's demise, then customers will >> revold against HP and HP will stand to lose sales of other products. >> >> WE MUST MAKE IT CLEAR TO HURD THAT VMS CUSTOMERS WILL NOT BE HP >> CUSTOMERS UNLESS HP PROMOTES VMS. > > > No sane organization will buy VMS (the development team et al.) > unless they had unshakeable confidence that Itanic won't be sunk by > the 100th anniversary of its namesake's demise. HP couldn't really > care about which processor PH-UX runs on - x86-64 ought to be fine > for it; Tandem - well those companies that use it are mostly price > insensitive and are used to being well lubed, so a modified x86-64 > for its use could probably be produced for a lot less than Intel > sinking more money into Itanic. VMS is the bastard stepchild of the > bunch. > > Let's assume that 100% of the remaining customer base and their 0.6 > Gorham's of remaining systems (W.A.G.) made the decision today to all > migrate from VMS asap. Figure five years for the most lengthy > migration, but the bulk would be completed in under 3 years - whether > via porting to unix with some of the available toolkits, or > application replacement (ie. moving to a unix/windows supported > package), or via a wholesale re-write. Anyone wanting to buy the VMS > business from HP would base their bid on the declining balance of > support revenues over a 3-year horizon, discounted at 60%+ to > accomodate the risk of faster migrations. As to 'new' sales revenues > - forget it. I am always amused by this "3 year" idea. Applications with 50 man years of developement and bugs and lost code and documentation are not particularly amenable to immediate conversion - and there are PLENTY of these. Also, any mission critical system on Rdb that needs to be moved will likely take "quite a while". This is not just a software issue - it is a manpower and technical skillset for the development team and the operations team, and then there is the little matter of performance and integrity - non-trivial things. There are examples where the "5 year plan" was still such after 5 years. There are also examples where "no expense spared" projects went tits-up because it turned out to be "just too hard". HP know this and have calculated what it will mean. OVMS will be around on palliative care for a long time to come. What won't be around is a supply of experienced (or new) talented developers, data specialists, operations people etc. with the skills. Those with the skills will find themselves the buggywhip manufacturers of the IT world. Dweeb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:45:49 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: And the question was? (Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com ac Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:38:51 -0700, Bill Todd wrote: > John Smith wrote: > > ... > > HP couldn't really care about which >> processor PH-UX runs on - x86-64 ought to be fine for it; Tandem - well >> those companies that use it are mostly price insensitive and are used to >> being well lubed, so a modified x86-64 for its use could probably be >> produced for a lot less than Intel sinking more money into Itanic. > > Both prospects are at least somewhat hampered by the fact that both > those environments are big-endian (and are old enough that some > significant amount of code - including third-party code which may not be > amenable to being massaged - may well depend upon this), while x86-64 is > little-endian. That is not a show-stopper. The 8086 had the byte swap instruction and with some modification it could certainly fully support both modes, as does power. > > (VMS, of course, is also little-endian, so porting it to x86-64 would > not encounter this particular obstacle.) > > - bill -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:19:31 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: And the question was? (Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com ac Message-ID: <1182903571.740216.217470@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Jun 26, 1:47 pm, "John Smith" wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: > > AEF wrote: [...] > > No sane organization will buy VMS (the development team et al.) unless they > had unshakeable confidence that Itanic won't be sunk by the 100th > anniversary of its namesake's demise. HP couldn't really care about which > processor PH-UX runs on - x86-64 ought to be fine for it; Tandem - well > those companies that use it are mostly price insensitive and are used to > being well lubed, so a modified x86-64 for its use could probably be > produced for a lot less than Intel sinking more money into Itanic. VMS is > the bastard stepchild of the bunch. > > Let's assume that 100% of the remaining customer base and their 0.6 Gorham's > of remaining systems (W.A.G.) made the decision today to all migrate from > VMS asap. Figure five years for the most lengthy migration, but the bulk > would be completed in under 3 years - whether via porting to unix with some > of the available toolkits, or application replacement (ie. moving to a > unix/windows supported package), or via a wholesale re-write. Anyone > wanting to buy the VMS business from HP would base their bid on the > declining balance of support revenues over a 3-year horizon, discounted at > 60%+ to accomodate the risk of faster migrations. As to 'new' sales > revenues - forget it. >From personal experience I have found that these types of estimates are missing a factor of 2.5. So make that 12.5, 7.5, and 7.5 years respectively! > > -- > OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV > base. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:43:53 -0400 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: And the question was? (Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com ac Message-ID: Main, Kerry wrote: > Re: "modern developer" > > Well, if modern tools means SOA type technologies, then imho, I have to > smile at this. > > While there are no doubt a few areas where these technologies might be > useful, the sad reality is that App developers and tools vendors are > telling the world "move to SOA or be lost forever", but they have no > idea of how really tough this is and/or the huge culture shift in their > entire business that this requires. There are some seriously cool tools in this area, powerful and effective tools and techniques. Surprisingly little code, for what you get, too. Stuff I've been using, and that have made me more efficient and effective than I was with older techniques and tools. Enhancements and improvements are the nature of the business, after all. > Way to much hype, but "modern" App folks are off saying "we need SOA > tools, we need SOA technologies ..we need SOA staff .." There's always been hype and FUD. Key here is whether a client-server, three-tier client-server, middleware, SOA or whatever you choose to call the particular design or tool or technique moves the business forward. Dismissing these tools out of hand is as hazardous as blindly leaping into the unknown. (My grandfather used a wooden hammer and nails. I use a nail gun. Had my grandfather had the opportunity, he would have purchased and used the first nail gun he could have afforded. I still have a hammer around, and it gets some use. That older compiler I have around, too, still gets some use.) > Reality check - think about the issues that DCE and common data > dictionary initiatives had. Anyone ever experienced how difficult it is > for multiple App groups to share stds, processes, and agree on data > models? If you're working in an organization that's fairly rigid, that can certainly be the case. I've been targeting modular designs for components for a while, and object oriented (OO) design -- for all its faults -- does tend to force encapsulation and modular programming. While it's possible to implement modular programming in most languages, OO can be a particular advantage in specific development environments; it tends to force a degree of discipline. The first large-scale project I worked on that used modular components was back around 1987 or so, and the encapsulated UI and internal communications and the networking most definitely expedited development and deployment. I was then writing what would now be known as middleware, or SOA. And the effort involved here gotten both easier and -- due to the ever-increased scale of the projects -- harder since then. Had I to do it over again, I'd be using XML and such. > SOA is all this with even more process and culture changes required. And > all this at a time when the business is demanding massive cuts in IT > spending. Pressure to increase output and to decrease costs is nothing new. The same pressures also apply to tasks including purchasing servers, purchasing companies, or to most any other business expenses. (And then there's the furor over whether IT is a competitive advantage -- and in various cases, it is not. Nicholas Carr ignited a maelstrom on this topic a while back.) > Anyway, perhaps a bit OT and not so much related to OpenVMS, but when > ever I hear this "modern developer" term, it starts my blood boiling. At > some point, someone has to tell the King (industry "modern developer") > they are wearing no clothes. Watch out: some few of those developers are wearing some very serious and very modern armor. Some of what I've been working with recently is a whole lot less coding effort for a whole lot more output; it's far more efficient. And far more competitive. -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 15:27:53 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Catch OPCOM messages (in PASCAL) Message-ID: Walter Kuhn wrote: > Hello group, > > I am trying to catch opcom messages from a (PASCAL) program, but it doesn't > work. The idea of the program is as follows: I believe the "official" way is to create a PSEUDO TERMINAL (I think they are the FTA devices as used by decwindows). Your program then has access to a $ at the IO level and then can write to that terminal "REPLY/ENABLE" and then read from the terminal as opcom messages come in. Look for "pseudo terminal driver" in the doc. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Jun 2007 14:59:35 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: Catch OPCOM messages (in PASCAL) Message-ID: In article , JF Mezei writes: > Walter Kuhn wrote: >> Hello group, >> >> I am trying to catch opcom messages from a (PASCAL) program, but it doesn't >> work. The idea of the program is as follows: > > > I believe the "official" way is to create a PSEUDO TERMINAL (I think > they are the FTA devices as used by decwindows). Your program then has > access to a $ at the IO level and then can write to that terminal > "REPLY/ENABLE" and then read from the terminal as opcom messages come in. Reading opcom messages from a terminal mailbox is one whole heck of a lot simpler than parsing them out of a character stream. I don't have any sample code, but I believe that one key is that you need to do a $ SET TERM /BRDCSTMBX so that broadcasts go to the associated mailbox rather than to the terminal itself. You can use a pseudo terminal instead of a LAT terminal if you wish and associate the mailbox with an FTA device instead of an LTA device. Six of one, half dozen of the other. But it would be silly to actually read the broadcasts using the pseudo terminal interface. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:14:22 -0400 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: Catch OPCOM messages (in PASCAL) Message-ID: Walter Kuhn wrote: > I am trying to catch opcom messages from a (PASCAL) program, but it doesn't > work. The idea of the program is as follows: Here's an ITRC thread discussing the same topic, with source code of a PTD pseudo-terminal-based solution and a DCL solution. http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1139262 -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:35:28 -0700 From: "tomarsin2015@comcast.net" Subject: closing all open files on a shadow set Message-ID: <1182915328.499125.145380@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Hello I move Office Server 6.X, WPS and a few other applications to a shadow set. I would like to follow the recommend procedure for backing up a shadow set, but I have the following problem. Even thru I shutdown the applications, there are still open files that belong to pid 00000000. I do a show system and all the Office/WPS/HSM processes are gone. So how do I stop/close a file that belongs to the 0000000?? tks phil ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:42:32 -0700 From: Volker Halle Subject: Re: closing all open files on a shadow set Message-ID: <1182915752.672162.151620@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> Phil, files open on a disk showing a PID of 00000000 are most likely installed images. Use $ INSTALL DELETE filename to remove them. A proper application shutdown procedure should undo everything it has done during startup, which would include removing it's installed images. Volker. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Jun 2007 22:45:02 -0500 From: kuhrt.nospammy@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) Subject: cURL 7.16.3 available Message-ID: The latest version of cURL, 7.16.3, has been released for OpenVMS and is available for download. The location is http://curl.haxx.se/download.html#VMS This is the binary and object library distribution of the cURL 7.16.3 release. See the readme.vms file in the zip for usage information. The zip files contain executables and objects built with OpenSSL, hpSSL and without SSL support. The files are in architecture specific zips. The OpenSSL and noSSL versions are self-contained in that you can run these programs without any other software on the system. For the hp SSL version, you will need to have hp's matching SSL product installed. HW Type VMS Version Compiler Vers SSL Library Filenames --------+-------------+---------------+----------------+----------- Alpha | OpenVMS 7.3 | DEC C 6.5-001 | OpenSSL 0.9.8d | .*_openssl Alpha | OpenVMS 7.3 | DEC C 6.5-001 | hpSSL 1.3 | .*_hpssl Alpha | OpenVMS 7.3 | DEC C 6.5-001 | No SSL support | .*_nossl IA64 | OpenVMS 8.3 | HP C V7.3-33 | OpenSSL 0.9.7d | .*_openssl IA64 | OpenVMS 8.3 | HP C V7.3-33 | hp SSL 1.3 | .*_hpssl IA64 | OpenVMS 8.3 | HP C V7.3-33 | No SSL support | .*_nossl VAX | OpenVMS 7.3 | DEC C 6.4-005 | OpenSSL 0.9.8d | .*_openssl VAX | OpenVMS 7.3 | DEC C 6.4-005 | hpSSL 1.1-B | .*_hpssl VAX | OpenVMS 7.3 | DEC C 6.4-005 | No SSL support | .*_nossl For those who don't know what cURL is, here is the blurb from their main page... Curl is a command line tool for transferring files with URL syntax, supporting FTP, FTPS, HTTP, HTTPS, GOPHER, TELNET, DICT, FILE and LDAP. Curl supports HTTPS certificates, HTTP POST, HTTP PUT, FTP uploading, kerberos, HTTP form based upload, proxies, cookies, user+password authentication, file transfer resume, http proxy tunneling and a busload of other useful tricks. I haven't tested all the features, since I only use the library for HTTP(S) stuff via C programs. It does compile and link cleanly on all the platforms outlined above. Some of the changes I made in the VMS specific directories didn't get included in the distribution in time for the 7.16.3 sources. If you build from scratch, you may want to get the latest files from the packages/vms directory from the CVS repository. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:55:50 -0700 From: kczwei Subject: Re: cURL 7.16.3 available Message-ID: <1182920150.992593.169270@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com> Thanks Marty. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:02:21 -0000 From: "Don.Zong@gmail.com" Subject: EVA/ Itanium question Message-ID: <1182880941.127753.268960@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> we have a system disk on eva say $1$dga21, now we snapcloned the system disk say $1$dga22, and we would like to test $1$dga22, can we just change the lun assignment $1$dga22 to $1$dga21, and boot the server as it usually does, is that simple? is there anything we need to change on EFI side ie re-config boot options etc ? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:29:43 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: EVA/ Itanium question Message-ID: <4681BD87.B7F3B429@spam.comcast.net> "Don.Zong@gmail.com" wrote: > > we have a system disk on eva say $1$dga21, now we snapcloned the > system disk say $1$dga22, and we would like to test $1$dga22, can we > just change the lun assignment $1$dga22 to $1$dga21, and boot the > server as it usually does, is that simple? is there anything we need > to change on EFI side ie re-config boot options etc ? Not sure what you're going for here. Why would you want to "test" a snap-clone? To see if it really did build a 100% accurate clone? I understand that certifications can be rigorous, just seems like DEC/Compaq would have certified that part of the code before HP acquired the product. Dunno if my shop would need to duplicate their efforts. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:31:42 -0500 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: RE: EVA/ Itanium question Message-ID: <002f01c7b863$4cdb44e0$e691cea0$@com> Can I come work where you work please?! You pretty obviously don't have to deal with Sarbanes-Oxley... I wish I did not! -Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys.no@spam.comcast.net] > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 8:30 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: EVA/ Itanium question > > "Don.Zong@gmail.com" wrote: > > > > we have a system disk on eva say $1$dga21, now we snapcloned the > > system disk say $1$dga22, and we would like to test $1$dga22, can we > > just change the lun assignment $1$dga22 to $1$dga21, and boot the > > server as it usually does, is that simple? is there anything we need > > to change on EFI side ie re-config boot options etc ? > > Not sure what you're going for here. > > Why would you want to "test" a snap-clone? To see if it really did > build a 100% > accurate clone? > > I understand that certifications can be rigorous, just seems like > DEC/Compaq > would have certified that part of the code before HP acquired the > product. Dunno > if my shop would need to duplicate their efforts. > > -- > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systems > http://www.djesys.com/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page > http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ > > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: > http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:45:37 -0000 From: ja Subject: gSOAP on OpenVMS? VMS as Web Service *client* Message-ID: <1182887137.550244.102170@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com> How many people would be interested in running gSOAP on OpenVMS, Alpha or Integrity? Of those, how many would want to: 1. use OpenVMS as a Web Service client from any native language 2. use OpenVMS as a Web Service server from any native language 3. both of the above gSOAP is an Open Source initiative. We have ported it to OpenVMS 8.3 on Alpha and Integrity as a midnight hack (nothing better to do...). Cheers, John ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:20:19 +0200 From: "Gorazd Kikelj" Subject: Re: gSOAP on OpenVMS? VMS as Web Service *client* Message-ID: <7yegi.1006$553.926725@news.siol.net> "ja" wrote in message news:1182887137.550244.102170@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com... > How many people would be interested in running gSOAP on OpenVMS, Alpha > or Integrity? > Of those, how many would want to: > > 1. use OpenVMS as a Web Service client from any native language > 2. use OpenVMS as a Web Service server from any native language > 3. both of the above > > gSOAP is an Open Source initiative. We have ported it to OpenVMS 8.3 > on Alpha and Integrity as a midnight hack (nothing better to do...). > > Cheers, John > Hi John, this sounds intriguing. I could certanly use 3. Do this now by hand in cobol and with perl. This sounds very promissing. You mention "from any native language"? Also from Cobol? Best, Gorazd ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:30:35 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: gSOAP on OpenVMS? VMS as Web Service *client* Message-ID: <4681BDBB.AE4729D7@spam.comcast.net> ja wrote: > > How many people would be interested in running gSOAP on OpenVMS, Alpha > or Integrity? > Of those, how many would want to: > > 1. use OpenVMS as a Web Service client from any native language > 2. use OpenVMS as a Web Service server from any native language > 3. both of the above > > gSOAP is an Open Source initiative. We have ported it to OpenVMS 8.3 > on Alpha and Integrity as a midnight hack (nothing better to do...). (Donning dental smock) What is "gSOAP"? -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:46:37 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: gSOAP on OpenVMS? VMS as Web Service *client* Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:30:35 -0700, David J Dachtera wrote: > ja wrote: >> >> How many people would be interested in running gSOAP on OpenVMS, Alpha >> or Integrity? >> Of those, how many would want to: >> >> 1. use OpenVMS as a Web Service client from any native language >> 2. use OpenVMS as a Web Service server from any native language >> 3. both of the above >> >> gSOAP is an Open Source initiative. We have ported it to OpenVMS 8.3 >> on Alpha and Integrity as a midnight hack (nothing better to do...). > > (Donning dental smock) > > What is "gSOAP"? > Gnu licensed Service Oriented Architecture P? -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:54:09 -0700 From: kczwei Subject: Re: gSOAP on OpenVMS? VMS as Web Service *client* Message-ID: <1182920049.144896.302850@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com> On Jun 26, 8:46 pm, "Tom Linden" wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:30:35 -0700, David J Dachtera > > > > wrote: > > ja wrote: > > >> How many people would be interested in running gSOAP on OpenVMS, Alpha > >> or Integrity? > >> Of those, how many would want to: > > >> 1. use OpenVMS as a Web Service client from any native language > >> 2. use OpenVMS as a Web Service server from any native language > >> 3. both of the above > > >> gSOAP is an Open Source initiative. We have ported it to OpenVMS 8.3 > >> on Alpha and Integrity as a midnight hack (nothing better to do...). > > > (Donning dental smock) > > > What is "gSOAP"? > > Gnu licensed Service Oriented Architecture P? > > -- > PL/I for OpenVMSwww.kednos.com SOAP generator. I'm interested in 3, but primarily 2. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:20:46 +0200 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: HP "Support" for OpenVMS Message-ID: <4681751e$0$7611$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk> AEF wrote: > On Jun 26, 1:52 am, JF Mezei wrote: >> Kel Boyer wrote: >>> An interview with Ann Livermore. I find the last sentence of this >>> clip rather telling. >> >> To the HP apologists, you should note that this means that more than >> one person noticed this text and finds it of enough significance to >> post it. > > OK, so you're not the only one. Of course we already knew that -- you > just pointed out one who didn't notice the first thread on this. > > I'm no HP apologist, but I stand by my previous statements. > > I described this situation to a co-worker here who is our Stratus > Admin and also writes code for it and other systems. About the "if and > when they want to migrate" he said you could read it either way. He > also said he thinks it would be nuts for hp to encourage its > proprietary-systems customers to migrate at all because they would > most likely go to Windows, Linux, or Solaris. And even if they go to > Windows or Linux while staying with HP, they could quickly move to a > competititor and run the same Windows and Linux stuff. I pointed this > out in my letter to Mr. Hurd. > > My take is still that while it isn't a good sign, it isn't a sign of > impending doom, either. > > Hey, trust me: I very much want to see VMS grow. If there's something > I could do to help, by all means let me know. > Ask yourself these questions. Q1: Within the context of the question actually asked, what relevance did the statement "... and if or when they ever want to migrate, we want them to migrate to another HP platform." have? A1: Absolutely f***ing nothing Q2: Why was it added to the answer? A2: For the same reasons that politicians add superfluous commentary to answers. Because they want the superfluous comment to be registered because it is part of their agenda. A politician will use any good opportunity, say a question about "X", to thread in his position on issue "Y". This is SOP for the politicos, and AL is just a politician in this case - advancing the corporate line at any given opportunity. Q3: Was the answer completely adequate without the "migration" bit A3: Yes So, I suggest you do the math here, get your head out of the sand or whatever. There is no way to read this in a positive light - this is a clear message from a senior exec as to her position on the issue of VMS and the future of the customers who use it. It started with the Stallard memo, and nothing has changed (except those with a brain and the opportunity) have made (or are planning) their exit. Dr. Dweeb > AEF ------------------------------ Date: 26 Jun 2007 20:53:53 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: <5edcn0F3866hqU1@mid.individual.net> In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > In article <68abf$4681628b$cef8887a$28995@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: >> >> >>VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >>> Five? I watched it and only saw four OSs: VMS, HP-UX, NonStop and Linux. >> >>They had a fifth environment that had disaster recovery for game >>playing. :-) > > I see... so when things went boom, there'd be no gloom in one's game > of Doom? > > Seriously, how can anyone take this seriously with Weendoze in the mix? Because the real world takes MS very seriously. And seeing this kind of attitiude among the VMS fanatics is probably one of the reasons why no one takes VMS seriously any more. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:13:56 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: <4681B9D4.2E48584F@spam.comcast.net> "P. Sture" wrote: > [snip] > Addendum: What _really_ cracked me up was the idea of a natural gas line > in a data centre in the first place. Someone hadn''t done their job > properly there. Oh, I dunno. I suppose it should be possible to use data center environmentals to condition the operator's spaces as well, absent any codes/restrictions to the contrary, in which case one wouldn't need gas/electirc heat... Then again, it could just be a left-over from an ammonia-based refrigeration (cooling) system or some such... -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:17:38 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Organised letter writing to Hurd ? Message-ID: <4681BAB2.7D4B15E7@spam.comcast.net> "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > > David J Dachtera wrote: > > "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > > > >>JF Mezei wrote: > >> > >>>Just an idea here: > >>> > >>>Would there be a point in some sort of organised/coordinated letter > >>>writing to Hurd ? > >>> > >>> > >>>I don't mean a petition. > >>> > >>>I was thing more of a coordinated continuing "debate" with Hurd. > >>> > >>>Person 1 writes letter to Hurd. > >>>Person 1 gets response. > >>>Person 2 writes letter to Hurd to argue Hurd's reponse to #1 > >>>Person 2 gets response > >>>Person 3 write letter to Hurd to argue Hurd's response to #2. > >>>etc etc > >> > >> > >> > >>What makes you think that Hurd reads his own mail? He undoubtedly has a > >>staff who open his mail, read it, and decide which ones he should handle > >>personally! > > > > > > Interesting point. > > > > I've had local HP-ers show up at work claiming they were there "becuase (I) > > wrote to Mark Hurd about (it)". > > > > It's possible. It's possible that Hurd has a large staff working under > a "standard operating procedure" or doctrine. IOW, they have a book > that, for a few dozen or even a few hundred common complaints, tells > them what to do. "If David D. writes to me, call his local field > service, and . . . ." > > If your field service contract involves 700 systems spread over a > hundred sites and costs you $750,000 per year, believe me, Field Service > toes the mark! Been there, done that, miss it! Not field service, the local management types. Really, it just gives me someone to blow steam off at. I know as well as anyone else that the person in front of me has no leverage or authority to effect change. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:32:34 -0400 From: Bill Todd Subject: Re: Tech support Message-ID: Mujibar has a close relative working at AT&T customer service (no, we don't use AT&T, but my 93-year-old mother still does - though I think not for any longer than it takes to get the current mess cleared up). Indeed, he had (or claimed he had) no one more knowledgeable (I, for example, would have easily qualified) to talk to, but assured me that someone would get back to us in 7 - 10 days... It seems to me that if off-shore support really does prove sufficient then there's really no reason to expect much of *any* commercial activity (beyond local service operations like dry cleaners and burger joints, anyway) to remain in the good ol' U S of A. Alternatively, those organizations which manage to understand the concept of 'false economy' will hopefully be rewarded, and the others will either learn or die. - bill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:56:27 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Tech support Message-ID: <4681615B.8000401@comcast.net> Rob Brooks wrote: > DeanW writes: > >>He was missing fundamental knowledge of computers, to wit: My system >>is crashed and won't boot. Asking me to forward the last few lines of >>SYS$ERRORLOG is really a waste of time better used looking up someone >>who can make useful suggestions. > > > When I was a customer and was unpleased with the support I got, I asked > for the Manager on Duty (the MOD), and that usually got me the help > I needed. I have no idea if that concept still exists, but if one > is getting substandard support, the only way that it'll get better is if > you paying customers complain loudly. The "Manager on Duty" vanished somewhere along the way. The last time I asked to speak with the "MOD", the support person I was speaking with had no idea what I was talking about (this was before things got outsourced half way around the world). I finally got to speak with a manager. . . . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 15:13:35 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Tech support Message-ID: DeanW wrote: > He was missing fundamental knowledge of computers, to wit: My system > is crashed and won't boot. Asking me to forward the last few lines of > SYS$ERRORLOG is really a waste of time better used looking up someone > who can make useful suggestions. Face it: Companies outsource to low wage countries to lower costs. Why did McDonalds switch from meat to cereals/compounds for its burger patties ? Not because they were better. It was an acceptable compromise in quality to save tons of money. The difference here is that the McDonalds burger patties don't improve with time. But if the indian inexperienced workers stay on the same jobs, then in 10 years, they should have eough experience to answer the phones and provde quality support. But how do you retain employees for 10 years on support jobs ? BY PAYING THEM ENOUGH MONEY TO KEEP THEM. That that defeats the whole purpose of outsourcing to low wage countries. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 15:23:18 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Tech support Message-ID: <4bd61$468167c4$cef8887a$32244@TEKSAVVY.COM> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > If management really cared they wouldn't have off-shored in the first > place. Any idiot could have seen how performance would drop when you > turn something as complex and inportant as this over to uneducated and > pretty much uneducatable people like that. This is really not correct to say that. One of the reasons India has become a haven for IT jobs is because they have a good education system and they understand english. I remember when I used to call the canadian support centre for Digital. There was a new guy there who wasn't exactly very experienced. Consider that VMS isn't exactly popular and isn't taught at school. Those indians may be extremely knowledgeable in windows and/or Unix because they learned it at school, but put them in a VMS job and they aren't exactly experts in the field and can't help much until they gain their footing. The difference here is that at Digital, there was 1 new guy within a groupd of experienced people. But when you outsource lock stock and barrel, one newbie gets minimal training in the USA and then goes out to train all the other newbies. So you habe newbies amongst newbies, so it will take a much longer time for them to gain the experience they need because they are not surrounded by very experienced people. It is however ludicrous that upper management at HP would have believed claims that the indians can take over tech support just like that and save HP millions. When service/support is a huge generator of managerment, you can't just transplant the organistion and all of a sudden have it operated by a bunch of newbies. Whether they are farmers from arkansas, or university educated indians, it doesn't matter. It is stupid to totally replace the support staff with new people. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:08:35 +0200 From: "Gorazd Kikelj" Subject: Re: Tech support Message-ID: <7negi.1004$553.926648@news.siol.net> "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote in message news:4681615B.8000401@comcast.net... > > The "Manager on Duty" vanished somewhere along the way. The last time I > asked to speak with the "MOD", the support person I was speaking with > had no idea what I was talking about (this was before things got > outsourced half way around the world). I finally got to speak with a > manager. . . . I work in HP Support Organization as L1 support and I can tell you, that MOD is a very serious business here in Europe. Very serious. And we have exelent L2/L3 support. As a tip, sometimes is much better to open a case in ITRC with all details and then call support person (give him a case number). Will speed up things a lot. Best, Gorazd ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:16:34 -0400 From: "Syltrem" Subject: Re: Tech support Message-ID: <1382t18e9g044df@corp.supernews.com> "JF Mezei" a écrit dans le message de news: 4bd61$468167c4$cef8887a$32244@TEKSAVVY.COM... > This is really not correct to say that. One of the reasons India has > become a haven for IT jobs is because they have a good education system > and they understand english. > > True And think of it from the positive side : India is a enormous market HP is training people to use VMS. They may not stay in customer support all their life. So they may end up having their own businesses, or be in charge of IT systems somewhere, and there is hope that these guys will get better with VMS, learn to like it, and there will be new VMS sites if they must implement something eventually ! I`m just daydreaming. Syltrem ------------------------------ Date: 26 Jun 2007 20:56:46 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Tech support Message-ID: <5edcseF3866hqU2@mid.individual.net> In article <1382t18e9g044df@corp.supernews.com>, "Syltrem" writes: > > "JF Mezei" a écrit dans le message de news: > 4bd61$468167c4$cef8887a$32244@TEKSAVVY.COM... >> This is really not correct to say that. One of the reasons India has >> become a haven for IT jobs is because they have a good education system >> and they understand english. >> >> > > True > > And think of it from the positive side : India is a enormous market > > HP is training people to use VMS. They may not stay in customer support all > their life. > > So they may end up having their own businesses, or be in charge of IT > systems somewhere, and there is hope that these guys will get better with > VMS, learn to like it, and there will be new VMS sites if they must > implement something eventually ! > > I`m just daydreaming. Boy are you. I once was put in contact with someone trying to set up a printing operation in India. Why me, you ask? Because the printers were all being run by a PDP-11. Nice choice, but hardly state of the art. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:07:58 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Tech support Message-ID: Bill Gunshannon wrote: > ...turn something as complex and inportant as this over to > uneducated and pretty much uneducatable people like that. Now, exactly what is the difference between uneducatable people just about anyware from, say , those in the US? I'd say that the world at large have more issues with both uneducated and uneducatable people i the US then anyware else. Since they have the power to but behind their lack of knowledge. But then, we aren't talking about VMS anymore, are we ? :-) I find it very distracting to put the blame on the people of India for what business decisions HP happens to make. Best Regards, Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:07:26 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Tech support Message-ID: <4681B84E.5050400@comcast.net> Gorazd Kikelj wrote: > "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote in message > news:4681615B.8000401@comcast.net... > > >>The "Manager on Duty" vanished somewhere along the way. The last time I >> asked to speak with the "MOD", the support person I was speaking with >>had no idea what I was talking about (this was before things got >>outsourced half way around the world). I finally got to speak with a >>manager. . . . > > > I work in HP Support Organization as L1 support and I can tell you, that MOD > is a very serious business here in Europe. Very serious. And we have exelent > L2/L3 support. As a tip, sometimes is much better to open a case in ITRC > with all details and then call support person (give him a case number). > Will speed up things a lot. > > Best, Gorazd > > > My last experience with the "Manager on Duty" was ca. 2003 in the USA. I have not had access to DEC/CPQ/HP technical support since August of 2004. The last time I used ITRC, again ca. 2003-2004 I had to call technical support in Colorado for help in finding what I was looking for. This was shortly after they shut down the DEC/Compaq facility we used to use; I forget now what we called it. At that time, ITRC was just about unusable! I've had no experience since August of 2004 and have no idea if it's any better now. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:36:23 -0700 From: DeanW Subject: Re: Tech support Message-ID: <3f119ada0706262036p2d363662o6d87e90b9c6db0cd@mail.gmail.com> On 26 Jun 2007 11:51:12 -0500, Rob Brooks wrote: > DeanW writes: > > > > He was missing fundamental knowledge of computers, to wit: My system > > is crashed and won't boot. Asking me to forward the last few lines of > > SYS$ERRORLOG is really a waste of time better used looking up someone > > who can make useful suggestions. > > When I was a customer and was unpleased with the support I got, I asked > for the Manager on Duty (the MOD), and that usually got me the help > I needed. I have no idea if that concept still exists, but if one > is getting substandard support, the only way that it'll get better is if > you paying customers complain loudly. > > If you truly get someone who has no clue, you really must ask to speak to > someone more senior; keep on doing that until you get someone who understands > the problem. In this case: I got where I needed, which was someone in hardware, and then storage, support here in teh US. It took a lot longer than it should have, but I saw nothing going forward to try to bring another body up to speed on what I needed. (I needed someone who could help me determine if it was a CPU or RAID controller flaking out.) Turns out it was just a disk, but circumstances collaborated to confuse the issue. (The RAID controller reported weird errors; the system repeatedly hung immediately after CPU #1 joined up, and the "bad disk" light never did come on.) I did talk to the guy who came out with the disk; he said there is a back-channel customer feedback mechanism; I should write up my observations of the process and feed it to him, and he would be *more* than happy to forward my complaints about the off-shore support. The on-shore support was more than helpful and willing to get us running again. > HP prides itself on support; if you are unhappy, please complain. I won't say I'm unhappy- I got the server back on it's feet in less than 4 hours, which is what we've paid for. Mostly I figured out a solution myself, confirmed by the local support techs. On the local end, things are much better than five years ago- I have to say some of the early retirements have done us some good, I no longer have the guy who wanted to bring down the server to replace a hot-swappable disk in an external shelf. It's just the off-shore stuff (language barrier, minor but annoying delays) that were/are irksome. IMO, a well setup phone menu and they could fire the offshore team and still improve service for less money. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 01:10:41 -0400 From: "Carl Friedberg" Subject: Re: Tech support Message-ID: <890539d90706262210r6023ba2al8b9d72ee40700f91@mail.gmail.com> I have had a series of hardware and software problems starting about one year ago. At that time, HP service was a disaster. The phone system just didn't work. When it did, you got some one in Costa Rica, who could not understand enough English to properly route you to the right area of support. At one point, the automated dispatch system (during the summer) dispatched a critical server down (hardware, would not reboot) to a tech. who was on vacation; and no one at HP was able to figure this out (not even the M O D, who does still exist; but is often hard/impossible to reach). I wrote up 3 months of horrendous experiences with (1) the entire dispatching and offshore disaster; and (2) the related outsourcing of spare parts dispatching to UPS Logistics. This, in my opinion, was much more of a problem. It got so bad that we arranged a meeting with our local field service office, and they assured us a change was coming. Indeed, a few months ago, a memory failure brought down a server. That was on the weekend. The tech called me about five times, to report his progress. At one point, he reported he was downtown, at the parts storage, looking for the replacement part. A few minutes later, he called to report that he had the part in his hands, and was off to his office (near the site). Another call, and he was leaving the office for the site. He arrived, replaced the memory in a few minutes, and we were happy when the server rebooted. I think the DEC field service organization, which Compaq and then HP inherited, is the finest field service organization. At least here in New York, it is better than IBM, which is the only comparable field service group. HP heard us. Not just us, but all of the paying VMS customers who wrote up the problems, and sent them up the channels. Things are much better a year later. Much better. Thank you, HP. Carl Friedberg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:04:38 GMT From: Bob Harris Subject: Re: Virtual serial ports on a MAC ? Message-ID: In article , JF Mezei wrote: > Ok, this is way out there, but just in case someone might have an idea ... > > > Traditional mac software expect 2 serial ports, the modem port and the > printer port. For some time, new macs have not had serial ports. I > think one is expected to buy some USB gizmo. > > Since MACs are now Unix under the hood, is there any software that could > generate virtual serial ports that could be mapped to some remote node ? > > I guess the more obvious would be LAT or Telnet connection to some > terminal server. > > But ideally, I wouldnt mind being able to use the serial ports I have on > a vax and connect one or two to the mac from time to time. (eg: rum my > PDA's backup software so that I can backup an old trusty PSION that has > a serial cable to the vax). > > Any ideas ? Huh? A modem and printer port? What traditional Mac software expected both of them? Or at least a printer and modem is what I initially had connected to my serial ports. Later the printer port was used as a LocalTalk port and the printer was networked. Printing was always abstracted, so that printing never depended on a serial port, as you could have been printing to a networked printer. And a modem was only interesting (in my traditional day) if I was connecting a terminal to a modem and issuing those AT dialing commands, then logging into a remote OpenVMS system. Later it was logging into my ISP. You can get USB to serial devices. Do a Google search for "mac usb to serial adapter", and you should turn up devices for doing that. This is strictly a Mac question and would have been better asked in Mac related news group, instead of adding more pollution to comp.os.vms. Bob Harris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:10:41 -0400 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: Virtual serial ports on a MAC ? Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > Traditional mac software expect 2 serial ports, the modem port and the > printer port. For some time, new macs have not had serial ports. I > think one is expected to buy some USB gizmo. You mean a USB missile launcher, or a USB refrigerator, or a USB earthquake sensor and postal scale, or a USB thermal and humidity probe, or a USB joystick, or USB holiday decorations? Some cell phones now use USB for charging. Dude, start buying yourself some USB gizmos. Enough gizmos keep most anyone entertained. Most of the Mac laptops offer USB, GbE, 802.11n and Firewire, though a few of the current Macs also do offer serial ports. The laptops and the low-end boxes tend not to offer serial connections. Modems are typically external. > Since MACs are now Unix under the hood, is there any software that could > generate virtual serial ports that could be mapped to some remote node ? I'm aware of no host-based terminal server software, though most any competent programmer could certainly easily create something. Or a Mac with a serial port could be acquired. Alternatively, seriously massive quantities of hardware could be thrown at this problem: there are ExpressCard adapters that break out into full PCI cages. Or there's the cheap, effective and expedient approach: a USB to serial adapter. > I guess the more obvious would be LAT or Telnet connection to some > terminal server. Telnet. LAT is long gone, and finding and porting a LAT server package for Mac OS X would be an entertaining and involved project. > But ideally, I wouldnt mind being able to use the serial ports I have on > a vax and connect one or two to the mac from time to time. (eg: rum my > PDA's backup software so that I can backup an old trusty PSION that has > a serial cable to the vax). > > Any ideas ? Sure. Write some code for the OpenVMS box, or pay somebody to write the code for you. Alternatively, a USB to serial adapter is available from somewhere between US$10 and US$40 list according to various web sites, and it is likely these can be found for less (even when translated into the local Loonies) from some big bin at a local electronics wholesale or gadget retailer place. To continue stay within the charter of this group, OpenVMS I64 itself now tends to expect USB to serial widgets for many of these same tasks. There are USB drivers on the Freeware, and there's a better set of drivers built into OpenVMS V8.3. I've been using a Keyspan adapter. Not the cheapest, but it was available when I was looking for it, and it works. Or retire the current serial device you have, and get something with Bluetooth capabilities, and use iSynch or other tools -- far more effective, far less hardware, and you're not tied to a serial connection. iSynch is very, very convenient. -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:57:03 -0500 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: RE: Virtual serial ports on a MAC ? Message-ID: <002601c7b856$13f21940$3bd64bc0$@com> Oh, it shouldn't be that hard. You could do it to most varieties of Linux/BSD boxes without any trouble at all. Look at: http://www.penguin-soft.com/penguin/man/1/ttyd.html All you need on the Mac side is a telnet client, which is thoughtfully provided to you by Apple. :) -Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: Stephen Hoffman [mailto:Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org] > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 7:11 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Virtual serial ports on a MAC ? > > JF Mezei wrote: > > > Traditional mac software expect 2 serial ports, the modem port and > the > > printer port. For some time, new macs have not had serial ports. I > > think one is expected to buy some USB gizmo. > > You mean a USB missile launcher, or a USB refrigerator, or a USB > earthquake sensor and postal scale, or a USB thermal and humidity > probe, > or a USB joystick, or USB holiday decorations? Some cell phones now > use > USB for charging. Dude, start buying yourself some USB gizmos. Enough > gizmos keep most anyone entertained. > > Most of the Mac laptops offer USB, GbE, 802.11n and Firewire, though > a few of the current Macs also do offer serial ports. The laptops and > the low-end boxes tend not to offer serial connections. Modems are > typically external. > > > Since MACs are now Unix under the hood, is there any software that > could > > generate virtual serial ports that could be mapped to some remote > node ? > > I'm aware of no host-based terminal server software, though most any > competent programmer could certainly easily create something. > > Or a Mac with a serial port could be acquired. > > Alternatively, seriously massive quantities of hardware could be > thrown at this problem: there are ExpressCard adapters that break out > into full PCI cages. > > Or there's the cheap, effective and expedient approach: a USB to > serial adapter. > > > I guess the more obvious would be LAT or Telnet connection to some > > terminal server. > > Telnet. LAT is long gone, and finding and porting a LAT server > package for Mac OS X would be an entertaining and involved project. > > > But ideally, I wouldnt mind being able to use the serial ports I have > on > > a vax and connect one or two to the mac from time to time. (eg: rum > my > > PDA's backup software so that I can backup an old trusty PSION that > has > > a serial cable to the vax). > > > > Any ideas ? > > Sure. Write some code for the OpenVMS box, or pay somebody to write > the code for you. > > Alternatively, a USB to serial adapter is available from somewhere > between US$10 and US$40 list according to various web sites, and it is > likely these can be found for less (even when translated into the local > Loonies) from some big bin at a local electronics wholesale or gadget > retailer place. > > To continue stay within the charter of this group, OpenVMS I64 > itself > now tends to expect USB to serial widgets for many of these same tasks. > There are USB drivers on the Freeware, and there's a better set of > drivers built into OpenVMS V8.3. > > I've been using a Keyspan adapter. Not the cheapest, but it was > available when I was looking for it, and it works. > > Or retire the current serial device you have, and get something with > Bluetooth capabilities, and use iSynch or other tools -- far more > effective, far less hardware, and you're not tied to a serial > connection. iSynch is very, very convenient. > > -- > www.HoffmanLabs.com > Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:02:01 -0500 From: "Craig A. Berry" Subject: Re: Virtual serial ports on a MAC ? Message-ID: In article , Stephen Hoffman wrote: > > Since MACs are now Unix under the hood, is there any software that could > > generate virtual serial ports that could be mapped to some remote node ? It sounds like you want the equivalent of TELNET/CREATE_NTY (Multinet) or TELNET/CREATE_SESSION (TCP/IP Services). Maybe you do want that on the VMS side to hook up your physical serial port to a virtual one. > > I'm aware of no host-based terminal server software, though most any > competent programmer could certainly easily create something. On the Mac side you'd probably need to create a pseudo-terminal device. I'm no expert but something like empty might do the trick: http://empty.sourceforge.net/ Something involving netcat might also be helpful: nc -l -p [port] < /dev/ttyS1 > /dev/ttyS1 where /dev/ttyS1 is the name of a device you want mapped to a remote host via the port specified. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:20:10 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: VMS - Alpha Server - Software AG Tamino Replacement Message-ID: <4681BB4A.E380372@spam.comcast.net> Chuck Aaron wrote: > > I'm curious what you are using as a replacement for SAG's TAMINO. > > http://www.softwareag.com/Corporate/products/tamino/default.asp (Donning dental smock) What is "Tamino"? -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.347 ************************