INFO-VAX Tue, 26 Jun 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 346 Contents: Re: AlphaServer power use Re: And the question was? (Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com a Catch OPCOM messages (in PASCAL) Re: Catch OPCOM messages (in PASCAL) Re: dns woes (ucx5.3, vms 7.3-1) Re: HP "Support" for OpenVMS Lost an AS-4100 power supply last month Re: Lost an AS-4100 power supply last month Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Re: Tech support Re: Tech support Re: Tech support Re: Tech support Re: Tech support Re: Tech support ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:20:34 +0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Uusim=E4ki?= Subject: Re: AlphaServer power use Message-ID: <468149e5$0$8401$9b536df3@news.fv.fi> Rich Jordan wrote: > On Jun 24, 8:09 pm, "P. Sture" wrote: >> In article <467eeb31$0$8717$ed261...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>, >> "John Wallace" wrote: >> >> >> >>> "rtk" wrote in message >>> news:1182718741.375428.129190@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com... >>>> I'm wondering if anyone has an idea on how much power an AlphaServer >>>> 4/200 might typically use. It has 2 hard drives running. There is a >>>> rating of 8.5A at 120V but I'm assuming that is a maximum. What's >>>> typical? I'd expect it to be about the same as a standard PC. >>>> Ron >>> Sorry, insufficient data: >>> a) You've not uniquely identified the box: Alphaserver xxx 4/200 could be >>> e.g. Alphaserver 1000, 2000 or 2100, assuming the 4/200 is correct and not >>> e.g. 4/233, which would open you up to different, possibly smaller, models >>> which might well be "about the same as a standard PC" whereas the >>> AlphaServer 1000 and up are more likely to be "about the same as standard >>> servers". Bit vague, that, isn't it? >>> b) You've not said why you want to know. E.g. the answer for >>> air-conditioning sizing purposes isn't necessarily the same as the answer >>> for UPS (or other mains power) sizing purposes. >>> Once you do identify the exact model, the relevant detailed specs will >>> hopefully be findable via the Systems and Options Catalogue (SOC) Archive >>> which is currently at >>> http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/soc_archives/80166.html >>> Sadly not all of the documents offer detailed info on kW (or BTU/hr) which >>> you want for aircon and kVA which you want for power supply but where it is >>> available it tends to be close to the end of the SOC chapter. >>> You may also encounter some oddness on the SOC website too, so suggestions >>> of other sources are most welcome. >> APC have a configuration tool which might be useful (requires Javascript) >> >> >> >> For example, I've just looked up a Digital Alphaserver 2100, selected a >> likely looking configuration, and it gave me the following: >> >> Device: Digital AlphaServer 1000 >> >> Total Power (Watts): 213 # of Power Cords: 1 >> Total Power (VA): 304 Quantity: 1 >> Total Thermal (BTU/hr): 727 Plug Type: IEC-60320-C13/C14 >> Operating Voltages: 230 >> >> -- >> Paul Sture > > > Just a suggestion. There are small plug-in power meters available for > $30 and under that are wonderful for finding out this kind of stuff. > "Kill a Watt" by P3 International is what I have at home, but I know > there are others. You can view instantaneous power draw (watts), line > voltage, amp draw, and KwH used over a period of time. Amazon.com > carries them (not a specific recommendation, just info). > > We ended up making a lot of changes based on the unit I bought; I > recently fixed a dead DS10L with a mainboard from a junked system and > now have two DS10Ls running, with multiple external drives, for about > 310 watts draw, which is far less than the single AS600-5/333 the > previous single working DS10L had replaced. Christmas lights were > drawing 800 watts (outside) and nearly 500 inside; next year we'll be > running mostly LED strings purchased as after Christmas closeouts. > CFLs replaced incadescents in standing lamps except for critical areas > (reading lights, etc). Its amazing how much power some things were > drawing. > Another suggestion; if you want to run your AlphaServer 1000 with a good looking uptime - like most VMS systems - (and save it from surges and spikes), you could buy yourself a small UPS for about $100 which also will tell you on-line the exact amount of watts or VA's your machine are consuming. Kari ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:47:08 -0400 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: And the question was? (Re: Amazing, two new articles on Computerworld.com a Message-ID: <92f98$4681510e$cef89fbf$19474@TEKSAVVY.COM-Free> JF Mezei wrote: > AEF wrote: >> Besides, you been claiming VMS faced imminent death for years as Rob >> Young has pointed out months (years?) ago. What's different this >> time? > > > I have not claimed VMS faces imminent death. But what is clear is that > VMS is slowly being poisoned and eventually, HP will just put it out > of its misery. > > You need to look at it from HP's point of view. They have no > intentions > of growing VMS. Their only intentions are to move as many VMS > customers > to their selected platform as possible. > > If they sell VMS to Bruden or Process (or a joint venture of both), > then HP will lose a greater percentage of customers to those > companies who > will also sell support than if HP lies to customers with fake roadmaps > and fully intends to convert them to HP-UX. > > Messges such as Livermore's are intended to get ISVs to rething their > commitment to VMS. When an ISV like Cerner announces it is dropping > VMS support, the stain goes on Cerner and not HP so people aren't so > mad at HP. > > It is our role as VMS loyalist to ensure that HP doesn't get away with > this tactic by pointing out that in the case of Cerner, surely there > has been a deal by HP to urge Cerner to move to HP-UX. It was > certaintly > not customer requests that pushed that. So if the blame for the loss > of Cerner lais flat on HP's face in the public eye, then HP will > learn that it cannot do this anymore. > > And we need to convince HP that there is NOTHING WRONG WITH GROWING > VMS. > > If HP sells VMS to Bruden/Process, at least customers will not yhold a > grudge against HP and may continue to buy HP's coloured water in > expensive small containers. > > If HP continues to act to quicken VMS's demise, then customers will > revold against HP and HP will stand to lose sales of other products. > > WE MUST MAKE IT CLEAR TO HURD THAT VMS CUSTOMERS WILL NOT BE HP > CUSTOMERS UNLESS HP PROMOTES VMS. No sane organization will buy VMS (the development team et al.) unless they had unshakeable confidence that Itanic won't be sunk by the 100th anniversary of its namesake's demise. HP couldn't really care about which processor PH-UX runs on - x86-64 ought to be fine for it; Tandem - well those companies that use it are mostly price insensitive and are used to being well lubed, so a modified x86-64 for its use could probably be produced for a lot less than Intel sinking more money into Itanic. VMS is the bastard stepchild of the bunch. Let's assume that 100% of the remaining customer base and their 0.6 Gorham's of remaining systems (W.A.G.) made the decision today to all migrate from VMS asap. Figure five years for the most lengthy migration, but the bulk would be completed in under 3 years - whether via porting to unix with some of the available toolkits, or application replacement (ie. moving to a unix/windows supported package), or via a wholesale re-write. Anyone wanting to buy the VMS business from HP would base their bid on the declining balance of support revenues over a 3-year horizon, discounted at 60%+ to accomodate the risk of faster migrations. As to 'new' sales revenues - forget it. -- OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:18:27 +0200 From: "Walter Kuhn" Subject: Catch OPCOM messages (in PASCAL) Message-ID: <46814a64$0$22641$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> Hello group, I am trying to catch opcom messages from a (PASCAL) program, but it doesn't work. The idea of the program is as follows: 1) Create a LTAx device 2) Create a mailbox and associate it with the LTA device 3) Set up a QIO on the mailbox 4) Enable operator on the LTA device with $SENDOPR 5) The program expects the operator messages on the mailbox. Right? The program (150 lines) is appended to this message. Any idea? best regards & thank you Walter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [INHERIT ('SYS$LIBRARY:STARLET', 'SYS$LIBRARY:PASCAL$LIB_ROUTINES')] PROGRAM OPCOM (OUTPUT); TYPE ubyte = [BYTE] 0..255; uword = [WORD] 0..65535; iosb = PACKED RECORD condval: uword; transcnt: uword; dvi: UNSIGNED; END; tOPCbuf = PACKED RECORD CASE BOOLEAN OF TRUE: (ms_type: ubyte; ms_enab: ubyte; ms_fil1: ubyte; ms_fil2: ubyte; ms_mask: INTEGER; ms_devunit: uword; ms_devname_len: ubyte; ms_devname: PACKED ARRAY [1..19] OF CHAR); FALSE: (str: PACKED ARRAY [1..30] OF CHAR); END; VAR OPCbuf: tOPCbuf; devunit: INTEGER; devunit_c: VARYING [5] OF CHAR; devname: VARYING [19] OF CHAR; devchan: [VOLATILE] uword; mbxname: VARYING [19] OF CHAR; mbxchan: [VOLATILE] uword; mbxchar: [VOLATILE] packed array [1..255] OF CHAR; mbxiosb: [VOLATILE] iosb; msgsiz: INTEGER; bufquo: INTEGER; [ASYNCHRONOUS,UNBOUND] PROCEDURE check (s: INTEGER); BEGIN IF NOT ODD (s) THEN LIB$SIGNAL (s); END; [ASYNCHRONOUS,UNBOUND] PROCEDURE mbxast; BEGIN { mbxast } LIB$PUT_OUTPUT ('mbxast ' + DEC (mbxiosb.condval) + ' ' + DEC (mbxiosb.transcnt) + ' ' + DEC (mbxiosb.dvi) + ' ' + DEC (ORD (mbxchar[1]))); { test } check ($QIO (func := IO$_READVBLK, chan := mbxchan, iosb := mbxiosb, astadr := %IMMED mbxast, p1 := mbxchar, p2 := 255)); END { mbxast } ; BEGIN { main } { { Create LTAx device and assign it with a mailbox {} msgsiz := 255; bufquo := 10 * msgsiz; check (LIB$ASN_WTH_MBX ('LTA0:', msgsiz, bufquo, devchan, mbxchan)); WRITELN ('devchan = ', devchan: 1); WRITELN ('mbxchan = ', mbxchan: 1); { { Set up a QIO on mailbox {} check ($QIO (func := IO$_READVBLK, chan := mbxchan, iosb := mbxiosb, astadr := %IMMED mbxast, p1 := mbxchar, p2 := 255)); { { Prepare command buffer for $SNDOPR {} OPCbuf := zero; OPCbuf.ms_type := opc$_rq_terme; { type of operator request } OPCbuf.ms_enab := 1; { enable } OPCbuf.ms_mask := OPC$M_NM_CARDS + OPC$M_NM_CENTRL + OPC$M_NM_SECURITY + OPC$M_NM_CLUSTER + OPC$M_NM_DEVICE + OPC$M_NM_DISKS + OPC$M_NM_NTWORK + OPC$M_NM_TAPES + OPC$M_NM_PRINT; { operator type } { { Get terminal unit number for $SNDOPR buffer {} check (LIB$GETDVI (DVI$_UNIT, devchan, , devunit)); WRITELN ('lib$getdvi: devunit = ', devunit: 1); OPCbuf.ms_devunit := devunit; { { Get terminal name for $SNDOPR buffer {} check (LIB$GETDVI (DVI$_FULLDEVNAM, devchan, , , devname.body, devname.length)); WRITELN ('lib$getdvi: devname = ', devname); { { Get mailbox name (for info only) {} check (LIB$GETDVI (DVI$_FULLDEVNAM, mbxchan, , , mbxname.body, mbxname.length)); { Mailbox name } WRITELN ('lib$getdvi: mbxname = ', mbxname); { { Remove unit number from terminal name (for $SNDOPR buffer) {} WRITEV (devunit_c, devunit: 1); devname := SUBSTR (devname, 1, INDEX (devname, devunit_c) - 1); OPCbuf.ms_devname_len := devname.length; OPCbuf.ms_devname := devname.body; { { Enable operator reply {} check ($SNDOPR (OPCbuf.str, mbxchan)); check ($HIBER); OPCbuf.ms_enab := 0; { disable } check ($SNDOPR (OPCbuf.str, mbxchan)); check ($dassgn (mbxchan)); check ($dassgn (devchan)); END { main } . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:27:47 -0400 From: "Syltrem" Subject: Re: Catch OPCOM messages (in PASCAL) Message-ID: <1382j4op11n522a@corp.supernews.com> "Walter Kuhn" a écrit dans le message de news: 46814a64$0$22641$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at... > Hello group, > > I am trying to catch opcom messages from a (PASCAL) program, but it > doesn't work. The idea of the program is as follows: > > 1) Create a LTAx device > 2) Create a mailbox and associate it with the LTA device > 3) Set up a QIO on the mailbox > 4) Enable operator on the LTA device with $SENDOPR > 5) The program expects the operator messages on the mailbox. Right? > > The program (150 lines) is appended to this message. > Any idea? > > best regards & thank you > Walter > Hi I didn't look at your code (no time), but mine (DEC-Basic) runs under an environment (detached process) setup like this: HTH Syltrem $ Create_Terminal: $ ! Si le nom logique pour le terminal existe, on assume que le terminal $ ! existe aussi. On utilise le terminal existant. $ ! Puisque le nom du terminal est basé sur les types de sauvegardes $ ! il ne devrait pas y avoir de conflits. $ ! Ex. Oracle = IVAD6123STD_O, RMS = IVAD6123STD_FIS) $ ! Puisque IVAD6123STD est tuée lorsque IVAD6110STD se termine, on n'a $ ! pas ainsi à se soucier d'avoir à détruire les terminaux créés $ ! puisqu'on réutilisera toujours les mêmes. $ If f$trn(Terminal_Name) .nes. "" - ! Existe déjà Then Goto Create_Terminal_Alter_Setting $ $ Open/Write OF WorkFile: $ Write OF "$ MCR LATCP" $ Write OF "CREATE PORT /LOGICAL=(NAME=''Terminal_Name', TABLE=SYSTEM) $ Write OF "EXIT" $ Close OF $ @WorkFile: $ $ Create_Terminal_Alter_Setting: $ Set Terminal /Permanent /NoBroadcast /Brdcstmbx 'Terminal_Name: $ Define/User SYS$COMMAND 'Terminal_Name: $ Reply /Enable=Tapes $ $ Listen_To_Tape_Change_Requests: $ Run EXE:IVAP6123STD ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 09:24:26 +0100 From: Chris Sharman Subject: Re: dns woes (ucx5.3, vms 7.3-1) Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > You would want to do the following: > > TCPIP>SET HOST dns.farawayplace.com 12.34.56.78 > > This creates the ability to locally resolve the host name of your > distant DNS server. > > TCPIP> SET CONF NAME /SERVER=dns.farawayplace.com/DOMAIN=mydomain.com > TCPIP> SET NAME/SERVER=dns.farawayplace.com/SYSTEM/DOMAIN=mydomain.com > > The first one sets the permanent configuration. > The second one sets the running config for the system. (without /system, > it affects only your process' name resolution). > > TCPIP> SET ROUTE/DEFAULT/GATEWAY=78.56.34.12/PERMANENT > TCPIP> SET ROUTE/DEFAULT/GATEWAY=78.56.34.12 Delighted to report that 3 days have gone by, and everything's stable. Thanks JF. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 06:02:16 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: HP "Support" for OpenVMS Message-ID: <1182862936.645813.232500@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Jun 26, 1:52 am, JF Mezei wrote: > Kel Boyer wrote: > > An interview with Ann Livermore. I find the last sentence of this clip > > rather telling. > > To the HP apologists, you should note that this means that more than one > person noticed this text and finds it of enough significance to post it. OK, so you're not the only one. Of course we already knew that -- you just pointed out one who didn't notice the first thread on this. I'm no HP apologist, but I stand by my previous statements. I described this situation to a co-worker here who is our Stratus Admin and also writes code for it and other systems. About the "if and when they want to migrate" he said you could read it either way. He also said he thinks it would be nuts for hp to encourage its proprietary-systems customers to migrate at all because they would most likely go to Windows, Linux, or Solaris. And even if they go to Windows or Linux while staying with HP, they could quickly move to a competititor and run the same Windows and Linux stuff. I pointed this out in my letter to Mr. Hurd. My take is still that while it isn't a good sign, it isn't a sign of impending doom, either. Hey, trust me: I very much want to see VMS grow. If there's something I could do to help, by all means let me know. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 04:42:49 -0700 From: Neil Rieck Subject: Lost an AS-4100 power supply last month Message-ID: <1182858169.245083.45690@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> Our development platform runs OpenVMS-8.2 on an AlphaServer-4100. I do not (yet) know how this happened but it seems that we lost a power supply last month and didn't know about it until yesterday. I'm still doing research on how to get real-time alerts of events like this but for now I'm going to run one of these two scripts from the LOGIN.COM of our priv users. (for some reason not all features are available to non-priv users). http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/demo_vms/dcl-env-check.zip http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/demo_vms/dcl-env-check-101.zip (enhanced) Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 15:38:13 +0000 (UTC) From: Dale Dellutri Subject: Re: Lost an AS-4100 power supply last month Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 04:42:49 -0700, Neil Rieck wrote: > Our development platform runs OpenVMS-8.2 on an AlphaServer-4100. I do > not (yet) know how this happened but it seems that we lost a power > supply last month and didn't know about it until yesterday. > I'm still doing research on how to get real-time alerts of events like > this but for now I'm going to run one of these two scripts from the > LOGIN.COM of our priv users. (for some reason not all features are > available to non-priv users). > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/demo_vms/dcl-env-check.zip > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/demo_vms/dcl-env-check-101.zip > (enhanced) On VMS 8.2 you could be running HP's WEBES. The notification for this power supply loss event should be in your SYS$ERRORLOG:ERRLOG.SYS. Command wsea of WEBES can format it for humans to read. I have a nightly batch job which uses WEBES to format this file, then email me a summary of the "Description" lines. A power supply loss, assuming it was a redundant one, shows up as "Non-fatal environmental event". WEBES can also email the info on a (somewhat) real-time basis. -- Dale Dellutri (lose the Q's) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 07:16:15 -0700 From: Andrew Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: <1182867375.298696.239020@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On 26 Jun, 09:37, Russell Wallace wrote: > tedj wrote: > > Russell: As Gorazd said, the failover was via standard OS failover > > products (ServiceGuard for HPUX and Linux, for example) along with the > > storage bits to show no-loss data revocery (Business Copy, Cluster > > Extensions, etc). I don't think we've done a good job so far in > > promoting what *exactly* was going on with the storage but I believe > > this information will be forthcoming in the following weeks. > > The accompanying paper gives a good overview. I'm impressed at the > ability to do this for five different operating systems, including ones > that were written by other people. > Not quite sure why this would be that impressive, VCS supports Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, Windows and Linux and has done for years. Regards Andrew Harrison ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:30:39 -0400 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option Message-ID: <5044b$46814d31$cef89fbf$7180@TEKSAVVY.COM-Free> Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Dr. Dweeb [mailto:spam@dweeb.net] >> Sent: June 22, 2007 9:15 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> Subject: Re: OpenVMS - When downtime is not an option >> > > [snip...] > >> >> LSE was a VMS site in the old days. Soon (or is it already??) they >> will be >> the "poster child" of billy boy as a pure Windoze trading >> environment. Go >> figure. >> >> Dweeb >>> > > > Well, hopefully, the viruses, trojans of the day etc do not hit them > like what happened here or it will end up being the type of poster > they do not want posted or talked about anywhere: > > http://www.vista-control.com/itanium_success.htm > "Los Alamos, February 15th. 2007 After implementing mission-critical > systems on Windows-based computers for many years, a customer > experienced a virus in one of these systems that shut down production > for two days while the infected systems were diagnosed, restored and > tested. The impact was that plant production was severely impacted at > no small cost. Despite internal opposition because of the established > standard, Vsystem on HP Itanium servers running OpenVMS was chosen for > the next system to be replaced." > > Imagine something like an exchange being down for this long? > > Think that might make a headline or two? > > With 5-20 platform security patches being released per month, LSE > Operations staff will certainly have their hands full. (sorry JF, > could not resist another plug, but it is reality :-)) > > It would be interesting to find out when (if) they go live. IT magazines like Information Week have been running Windows / LSE ads for many issues now, touting how great the LSE's Windows-based system is. These are Microsoft ads, lest anyone get the wrong impression --- but in the old days I could take customers out for a night at the Hippodrome and several bottles of champagne later I could get them to say anything if I wanted them to. Wanna bet some of that still goes on? -- OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV and customer base. Oh where oh where has my Cerner app gone? Oh where oh where can it be? It's gone to AIX on an IBM box, Oh woe oh woe is me. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 09:48:36 -0400 From: "Syltrem" Subject: Re: Tech support Message-ID: <138269q9nsugp06@corp.supernews.com> "Richard B. Gilbert" a écrit dans le message de news: 467D6912.1030008@comcast.net... > Mujibar was trying to get a job in India. The Personnel Manager said, > "Mujibar, you have passed all the tests, except one. Unless you pass it > you cannot qualify for this job." > > Mujibar said, "I am ready" > > The manager said, "Make a sentence using the words Yellow, Pink and > Green." > > Mujibar thought for a few minutes and said,"Mister manager, I am ready" > > The manager said, "Go ahead." > > Mujibar said, "The telephone goes green, green, and I pink it up, and > say, 'Yellow, this is Mujibar.'" > > Mujibar now works as a technician at a call center for computer problems. > > No doubt you have spoken to him. I have. > Yes, I spoke to Mujibar a couple of times. It's that guy who reads his technical manual to find answers to the questions you ask him. And when he can't find it in the manual, he calls the people who know (they generally live in the U.S.A.) I spoke to Mujibar, read the manual like him, and now wants to also speak directly to the guy in the U.S.A. The latter is now the 1st thing I ask to Mujibar, and I get good technical support. Syltrem ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 08:41:16 -0700 From: DeanW Subject: Re: Tech support Message-ID: <3f119ada0706260841w5a690354i7dd617aee0ca0fbd@mail.gmail.com> On 6/26/07, Syltrem wrote: > > "Richard B. Gilbert" a =E9crit dans le message d= e > > Mujibar now works as a technician at a call center for computer problem= s. > > > > No doubt you have spoken to him. I have. > > Yes, I spoke to Mujibar a couple of times. I talked with him yesterday, although he called himself "Jose". As if I couldn't tell the difference in accents. He said "OK, excellent" a lot. I'm sure he doesn't understand what that really means, because he used it at times I would not have, for example: Me: "My system crashed a couple hours ago; when it tries to boot it hangs immediately after it says 'CPU #01 has joined the active set.' " Jose: "OK... Excellent!" He never did get my last name right; It's W O O D W A R D, not W O D A W R = D. He was missing fundamental knowledge of computers, to wit: My system is crashed and won't boot. Asking me to forward the last few lines of SYS$ERRORLOG is really a waste of time better used looking up someone who can make useful suggestions. The irony is that this is the same customer that has an RX3600 ("Itanium Hardware Q" thread), installation of which was held up for a week because it was delivered w/o a DVD drive. If things had gone to schedule, the old Alpha crashing would have been a *complete* non-event, as it was supposed to stop being the production box last Thursday. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Jun 2007 11:51:12 -0500 From: brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) Subject: Re: Tech support Message-ID: <6LrfXmTseE6e@cuebid.zko.hp.com> DeanW writes: > > He was missing fundamental knowledge of computers, to wit: My system > is crashed and won't boot. Asking me to forward the last few lines of > SYS$ERRORLOG is really a waste of time better used looking up someone > who can make useful suggestions. When I was a customer and was unpleased with the support I got, I asked for the Manager on Duty (the MOD), and that usually got me the help I needed. I have no idea if that concept still exists, but if one is getting substandard support, the only way that it'll get better is if you paying customers complain loudly. If you truly get someone who has no clue, you really must ask to speak to someone more senior; keep on doing that until you get someone who understands the problem. I have no idea what metrics are used to track the support specialists, but if customers routinely ask to escalate the problem, someone in management will notice. HP prides itself on support; if you are unhappy, please complain. Yeah, I agree it should not come to that, but unfortunately it has. -- Rob Brooks MSL -- Nashua brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com ------------------------------ Date: 26 Jun 2007 16:34:52 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Tech support Message-ID: <5ecthcF37sb84U1@mid.individual.net> In article <6LrfXmTseE6e@cuebid.zko.hp.com>, brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) writes: > DeanW writes: >> >> He was missing fundamental knowledge of computers, to wit: My system >> is crashed and won't boot. Asking me to forward the last few lines of >> SYS$ERRORLOG is really a waste of time better used looking up someone >> who can make useful suggestions. > > When I was a customer and was unpleased with the support I got, I asked > for the Manager on Duty (the MOD), and that usually got me the help > I needed. I have no idea if that concept still exists, but if one > is getting substandard support, the only way that it'll get better is if > you paying customers complain loudly. I don't remember which companies in particular it was, but the last one or two times I asked the dork on the line to connect me with their manager they merel said, "No". You have to remember, you're not in the driver's seat any more. And that is not just with VMS!! > > If you truly get someone who has no clue, you really must ask to speak to > someone more senior; keep on doing that until you get someone who understands > the problem. I'll bet they have pools on how long you're willing to stay on hold before you hang up and go away. > > I have no idea what metrics are used to track the support specialists, but > if customers routinely ask to escalate the problem, someone in management will > notice. If management really cared they wouldn't have off-shored in the first place. Any idiot could have seen how performance would drop when you turn something as complex and inportant as this over to uneducated and pretty much uneducatable people like that. > > HP prides itself on support; if you are unhappy, please complain. > > Yeah, I agree it should not come to that, but unfortunately it has. Or do what so many others are doing and find a better product. It really doesn't matter how good VMS was last year or the year before. It is on a rapid downhill slide now and things will not be getting better. And HP doesn't care. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 26 Jun 2007 12:06:17 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Tech support Message-ID: In article <6LrfXmTseE6e@cuebid.zko.hp.com>, brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) writes: > > When I was a customer and was unpleased with the support I got, I asked > for the Manager on Duty (the MOD), and that usually got me the help > I needed. I have no idea if that concept still exists, but if one > is getting substandard support, the only way that it'll get better is if > you paying customers complain loudly. One of the things you got with your national DECUS event registration was someone who would tell you The Magic Word for dealing with DEC support was "elevate". Maybe someone in HP can translate for us? ------------------------------ Date: 26 Jun 2007 13:15:57 -0500 From: brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) Subject: Re: Tech support Message-ID: (Bob Koehler) writes: > brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) writes: >> >> When I was a customer and was unpleased with the support I got, I asked >> for the Manager on Duty (the MOD), and that usually got me the help >> I needed. I have no idea if that concept still exists, but if one >> is getting substandard support, the only way that it'll get better is if >> you paying customers complain loudly. > > One of the things you got with your national DECUS event registration > was someone who would tell you The Magic Word for dealing with DEC > support was "elevate". > > Maybe someone in HP can translate for us? When I was a customer, I was told by someone at DEC that the "magic words" were "Manager on Duty"; I don't know if that's still the case. You'd need to get someone from the Services organisation to reveal today's magic words. -- Rob Brooks MSL -- Nashua brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.346 ************************