INFO-VAX Sun, 10 Jun 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 315 Contents: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: Comparative patch installation (was Re: ALPHA_V732_MASTER_ECO_LIST.txt) Re: Comparative patch installation (was Re: ALPHA_V732_MASTER_ECO_LIST.txt) ALPH Re: Hobbyist License Problems Re: Hobbyist License Problems Re: Hobbyist License Problems Re: Hobbyist License Problems Re: Hobbyist License Problems Re: HOWTO: Ignoring wildly OT threads Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Re: OM Group acquired by Nasdaq - VMS probably out Re: OM Group acquired by Nasdaq - VMS probably out Re: OpenVMS Support for C-class Blades Re: OpenVMS Support for C-class Blades Re: OT: Lightning & Time to buy lottery tickets Re: OT: Lightning & Time to buy lottery tickets Re: OT: Lightning & Time to buy lottery tickets Re: OT: Lightning & Time to buy lottery tickets Re: OT: Question to Bob Re: OT: Question to Bob Re: OT: Question to Bob Re: porting ignorance (was Re: Story Time) SRM PGA Firmware Update Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: [Q]Pascal packed arrary of char and varying of char ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 15:01:37 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: <466af90b$0$90269$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> ChrisQuayle wrote: > Couldn't have put it better myself. In a software engineering > environment, with responsible vendor, you are more likely to find out > about bugs and there will be a formal process in place to fix the bug, > regression test etc and have the fix distributed in a structured manner, > so that application of the patch doesn't break anything else. Can we say > that about Linux ?. > > So, the key difference is in the process. With Linux, you may worst case > get whoever is responsible for that section of code programming a fix, > then quickly testing and distributing it, but are enough resources > available to test it with every piece of software that depends on it ?. > Probably not. Paid for "support" doesn't doesn't even touch the edges of > such a requirement. You think Redhat and Oracle are committing fraud when they take support money from customers and are not testing the fixes ?? Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 15:06:50 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: <466afa44$0$90269$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Dr. Dweeb wrote: > Main, Kerry wrote: >> As I mentioned earlier, it is not the roll-out of the patches that is >> the issue. Heck, that is relatively minor as you can even easily do >> this with all of the Windows security patches. >> >> The big issue by far is the re-certification and testing of important >> business applications with all of the monthly OS security patches. >> >> For small and some medium businesses with small numbers of users, >> this is not an issue as they simply apply the patch and reboot. If a >> OS security patch breaks the kernel or an application, then they can >> simply roll-back with minimal impact as the numbers of users are not >> that large. >> >> That is usually not the case with large IT environments with mission >> critical environments. > OK. Just so you guys "get it", here is a real example. > > A system software upgrade is tested and validated. To be deployed at 8 > different sites over a period of 1 year, sheduled deployment determined by > PM downtime of 24*7 manufacturing operations - which by its nature is > planned a long way in advance. > > 2 smaller sites go live before a memory leak rears its ugly head in a large > site, number 3, crashing the application and stalling part of the factory > shipping processes. The resulting cleanup operation consumes DBA and > sysadmin time at every occurrance and occurs at different intervals > depending on the transaction volume of the factory - the larger the factory, > the larger the problem. We are talking daily on a large factory. > > The IT troubleshooters get on the job and isolate the error, create a simple > reproducer and report it as priority 1 bug to the supplier, who duly fix it > within 3 days! The IT guys check out the reproducer and the instances of > live code where the problem was evident and verify that the supplier patch > has indeed solved the problem. > > Q1: Which version of the software was installed at the following 5 sites? > Q:2 When was the software updated at the 3 already installed sites? > > A1: The broken version. > A2: Never (yet) > > In order to release a systems software upgrade, the entire application must > pass certification. This is an $7B pr. year manufacturing company - a > houshold name - SOX compliant and accutely aware of the necessity for > application certification before deployment. > > Why you ask? > > Because the cost of bringing a larger factory down completely is like > $50,000 per hour, while the cost of having a DBA cleanup the stalls is zero, > because he is already sitting there and it is in his job description. The > risk is evaluated, the costs apportioned and the decision made. A > management no-brainer, because the certification requirement and procedures > are very clear and unambiguous. As bizarre as it seems, this is the daily > life of people who maintain and operate the big iron that controls large > manufacturing - not just that particular site. > > When the application is recertified on the patched vendor software, the > patch to the vendor software will be applied to the production environment > in a controlled and phased manner - not before. > > Here endeth the lesson in reality for you guys who wouldn't know a real > high-availability corporate production environment if it landed on your > head! But the conclusion is that Kerry arguments against Linux does not hold water. Because if those systems where running Linux - how many security patches would have been installed on them in that period ? Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 23:40:59 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Comparative patch installation (was Re: ALPHA_V732_MASTER_ECO_LIST.txt) Message-ID: On 06/09/07 17:21, David J Dachtera wrote: > Ron Johnson wrote: >> On 06/07/07 18:46, David J Dachtera wrote: >>> Ron Johnson wrote: >>>> You know... installing "patches" in Linux is a *lot* simpler. >>> You're joking, right? >> Dead serious. In Debian/Ubuntu, it's as simple as: >> # apt-get update && apt-get upgrade >> Then it shows you the outstanding critical bugs and you answer Y or N. >> >> If you're stupid, it's even easier: >> # apt-get update && apt-get -y upgrade >> >> (The "-y" switch means, "answer yes to all questions.) > > ...until it fails. Then, heaven help you. You'll either spend months recovering > from it (based on postings in other groups where I lurk but do not participate), > or you'll scrap it, reformat and start over from a clean install. *Exactly!* Which is why you should never, ever do it. "-y" is useful, though, for automated downloads. Put this in root's crontab to run at night or weekend, when corporate bandwidth usage should be lower: # apt-get update && apt-get -d -y upgrade The "-d" switch means download-only. Makes things easier for you the next day. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 17:21:08 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Comparative patch installation (was Re: ALPHA_V732_MASTER_ECO_LIST.txt) ALPH Message-ID: <466B27D4.D0AAE9C3@spam.comcast.net> Ron Johnson wrote: > > On 06/07/07 18:46, David J Dachtera wrote: > > Ron Johnson wrote: > >> You know... installing "patches" in Linux is a *lot* simpler. > > > > You're joking, right? > > Dead serious. In Debian/Ubuntu, it's as simple as: > # apt-get update && apt-get upgrade > Then it shows you the outstanding critical bugs and you answer Y or N. > > If you're stupid, it's even easier: > # apt-get update && apt-get -y upgrade > > (The "-y" switch means, "answer yes to all questions.) ...until it fails. Then, heaven help you. You'll either spend months recovering from it (based on postings in other groups where I lurk but do not participate), or you'll scrap it, reformat and start over from a clean install. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 18:27:41 GMT From: "Robert Jarratt" Subject: Re: Hobbyist License Problems Message-ID: "P. Sture" wrote in message news:paul.sture.nospam-6D6651.18383609062007@mac.sture.ch... > $ LICENSE LOAD > > This will be done automatically as part of the boot process, so you > don't need to insert it into any startup files. > > -- > Paul Sture Yes that seems to have been it, but the puzzler is that some other products installed OK without doing this and with no intervening boot. Thanks Rob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 18:43:17 GMT From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: Hobbyist License Problems Message-ID: In article , "Robert Jarratt" wrote: >"P. Sture" wrote in message >news:paul.sture.nospam-6D6651.18383609062007@mac.sture.ch... >> $ LICENSE LOAD >> >> This will be done automatically as part of the boot process, so you >> don't need to insert it into any startup files. >> >> -- >> Paul Sture > >Yes that seems to have been it, but the puzzler is that some other products >installed OK without doing this and with no intervening boot. Some products install fine without a license; they only check when you use them. That might explain part of what you see. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 15:20:28 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Hobbyist License Problems Message-ID: <466AFD7C.2050109@comcast.net> Robert Jarratt wrote: > I have just started running OpenVMS 7.3 under the hobbyist program (it is > nearly 20 years since I last used VMS). I have successfully registered > licenses and installed the software for C 6.4, C++ 5.6 and Pascal 5.8. > However, I have also registered licenses for ADA, BASIC and FORTRAN, but > when I install those products (ADA 3.5, BASIC 3.9 and FORTRAN 6.6) they > complain that they are not licensed. Given that I have successfully licensed > VMS and the other products I don't think that it is something wrong with my > procedure (which is just to cut and paste the LICENSE command from the > hobbylist license email). > > Any suggestions as to what the problem might be? > > Thanks > > Have you issued: LICENSE LOAD? What does: $ LICENSE LIST tell you? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 21:13:30 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: Hobbyist License Problems Message-ID: In article , "Robert Jarratt" wrote: > "P. Sture" wrote in message > news:paul.sture.nospam-6D6651.18383609062007@mac.sture.ch... > > $ LICENSE LOAD > > > > This will be done automatically as part of the boot process, so you > > don't need to insert it into any startup files. > > > > -- > > Paul Sture > > Yes that seems to have been it, but the puzzler is that some other products > installed OK without doing this and with no intervening boot. > I think that can be explained by the fact that some installation procedures check for active licenses and others don't. Installation procedures which insist on a license being loaded first can be a pain in the neck. There are times (such as setting up a system before shipping to a customer) when it is better to do an installation now and activate the licenses later. IIRC TCP/IP Services are a guilty party here, where you can't get at some of the menu items in TCPIP$CONFIG unless the relevant licenses are active. A bummer if your Hobbyist licenses have just run out. -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 21:57:01 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Hobbyist License Problems Message-ID: <3a581$466b5a6f$cef8887a$28583@TEKSAVVY.COM> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > Have you issued: LICENSE LOAD? > What does: > $ LICENSE LIST > tell you? Actually, for a running system, SHOW LICENSE is the better tool since it shows the ACTIVE (loaded) licences. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 12:09:03 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: HOWTO: Ignoring wildly OT threads Message-ID: <1181416143.331035.298750@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Jun 8, 8:13 pm, Doug Phillips wrote: > On Jun 8, 5:00 pm, AEF wrote: > > > On Jun 8, 5:20 pm, Doug Phillips wrote: > > > > On Jun 8, 12:31 am, John Santos wrote: > > > > > Doug Phillips wrote: > > > > > On Jun 7, 8:43 am, Paul Anderson wrote: > > > > > >>In article , > > > > >> Ron Johnson wrote: > > > > > >>>Any dedicated newsreader worth it's salt has an "Ignore thread" > > > > >>>feature. > > > > > >>I heard that doing that contributes to global warming. > > > > > > Only if we don't observe the thread. Weisenheimer's theory of thread > > > > > entanglement says that an off-topic thread in one newsgroup will spawn > > > > > an OT discussion in another group and lead to global warming if the OT > > > > > thread is not observed. Thread noodling by the Flying Spaghetti > > > > > Monster can cause the entanglement to appear random. > > > > > > So says the great Weisenheimer. > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > Is this an example of quantum thread entanglement? AEF, care to > > > > comment? > > > > Weirdness doesn't only happen at the quantum level. > > > > Check this out: > > > > Go here > > > > and click: > > > > -> DOWNLOAD THE VIBRATING CORN STARCH MOVIE <- > > > > and pick your video format. > > > > This experiment might be familiar to some, but I suspect some folk > > > might find it new and interesting. > > > > PS: Don't worry, I have no intention of jumping back into the QM wars. > > > Let the future reveal what it may. > > > Wow! Amazing footage. Thanks! I wonder how Ken Ham and company would > > explain this! (Though I still think weather systems is a great > > response for them to chew on.) > > > Anyway, I actually played with cornstarch and water as a kid. I think > > it was an experiment suggested in the "Weekly Reader". You have to mix > > cornstarch and water in just the right proportion. It's hard to get it > > right, but well worth it. You have to add just enough water and you > > get a fascinating goop. You have to add the water slowly and keep > > stirring. If you add too much water it doesn't work. Dig a spoon into > > it and it turns solid. Pick the spoon up, turn the it upside down and > > it the scooped cornstarch and water mixture turns back to liquid and > > drains back into the pan. Stirring it is fascinating. If my memory is > > at all correct, this is highly recommended. Enjoy. > > The good ol' Weekly reader. Still going strong after 105 years! > > Here are a couple of K-12 teacher friendly sites that have the goop > (oobleck) recipe: > > This one's at colostate.edu > > > and this one's at science-house.org > > > Fun stuff for kids of all ages:-) Well, I went to the Weekly Reader Web site and typed 'cornstarch' in the search box and didn't find anything, but in Google stumbled across this: http://www.seed.slb.com/en/scictr/lab/cornstarch/index.htm Man, it was over 30 years ago so I'm not sure I read it in the Weekly Reader or something else. Anyway, cornstarch is still the same so it should still work as advertised, of course. Have fun! AEF ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 15:13:59 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Message-ID: <466afbf3$0$90270$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Main, Kerry wrote: > The challenge with Linux (and Windows) is the sheer volume of monthly > security patches and the impact they have on Operations and QA/Testing > is mind boggling. > > That is experience talking vs. "ignore the faults, because I can manage > my own small little world just fine, therefore all those other large > shops struggling with little things like no App downtime, strict > revision and config management and App re-cert testing processes just do > not know what they are doing .." They know what they are doing. A lot of them are moving towards Linux. > So are you saying that this is what a med shop must do every month for > the 100+ Linux servers running all different versions of Linux? They are not running 100 different versions of Linux more than they are running 100 different versions of VMS or Solaris or z/OS. > And what > do they do when they ask the business for monthly shutdowns to apply > these security patches? They don't. > Linux (and Windows) have a place, but lets get real with understanding > the real Operations challenges when compared to more enterprise class > platforms. Let us understand that out in the real world companies are moving to Linux. > And what do you think large companies use for their standard OS > versions? Do you think they want 20+ different config's running all > across their 100+ Linux servers? They do the same for Linux as for VMs as for Solaris as for z/OS ... Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 15:16:53 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: OM Group acquired by Nasdaq - VMS probably out Message-ID: <466afc9f$0$90270$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> JF Mezei wrote: > John Smith wrote: >> Frankly I'd be amazed if there was *anything* exhaustive analyzed knowing >> how M&A deals are often done. > > "True" due diligence cannot be done until the deal has been announced > publically. Before that, you get Carly and Curly discussing their > wedding in front of a fireplace with a champagne and exchanging what > they know and VERY FEW other people within the respective corporations > would be in the loop to provide them with information on the impact of > such a takeover/merger. > > M&A bankers will advise Carly/Curly on possible synergies of such a > merger based only on publically available documents from both companies. > They can make broad statements about cost savings etc, but they cannot > make definitive ones. > > Once the deal is publically announced, Carly and Curly drop their > clothes and have access to each other's books, and they can they > designate key staff within each company to do the same and report back > to them. > > Such key staff, by having intimate access to a competitor's > books/operations/secrets risks losing his/her job should the merger fail > because of the competitive information they have acquired. > > But this only happens once the deal is announced. So in the case of > NASDAQ, their statement that apparently claims that their technology is > superior to OM's is just the NASDAQ chairmain making an uninformed > opinion to help make his dick appear bigger. > > Now that the deal is announced, due diligence can happen and they can > then make more informed guesses on what Nasdaq would actually be buying > and whether the OM platform is worth preserving or not. And this is why > its i extremely important for OM and the VMS management within HP to > ensure NASDAQ is given high level "VMS is the best" presentations. Dilbert is funny. It may even be reality in some cases. But do not assume that it is always reality. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 15:29:06 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: OM Group acquired by Nasdaq - VMS probably out Message-ID: <466AFF82.9050702@comcast.net> Arne Vajhĝj wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: > >> John Smith wrote: >> >>> Frankly I'd be amazed if there was *anything* exhaustive analyzed >>> knowing >>> how M&A deals are often done. >> >> >> "True" due diligence cannot be done until the deal has been announced >> publically. Before that, you get Carly and Curly discussing their >> wedding in front of a fireplace with a champagne and exchanging what >> they know and VERY FEW other people within the respective corporations >> would be in the loop to provide them with information on the impact of >> such a takeover/merger. >> >> M&A bankers will advise Carly/Curly on possible synergies of such a >> merger based only on publically available documents from both >> companies. They can make broad statements about cost savings etc, but >> they cannot make definitive ones. >> >> Once the deal is publically announced, Carly and Curly drop their >> clothes and have access to each other's books, and they can they >> designate key staff within each company to do the same and report back >> to them. >> >> Such key staff, by having intimate access to a competitor's >> books/operations/secrets risks losing his/her job should the merger >> fail because of the competitive information they have acquired. >> >> But this only happens once the deal is announced. So in the case of >> NASDAQ, their statement that apparently claims that their technology >> is superior to OM's is just the NASDAQ chairmain making an uninformed >> opinion to help make his dick appear bigger. >> >> Now that the deal is announced, due diligence can happen and they can >> then make more informed guesses on what Nasdaq would actually be >> buying and whether the OM platform is worth preserving or not. And >> this is why its i extremely important for OM and the VMS management >> within HP to ensure NASDAQ is given high level "VMS is the best" >> presentations. > > > Dilbert is funny. It may even be reality in some cases. But do not > assume that it is always reality. > > Arne I don't think that Scott Adams has to use his imagination very much. Reality supplies more than enough material to keep the comic strip going! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 14:23:06 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: OpenVMS Support for C-class Blades Message-ID: Joel Loveless wrote: > > I attended a recent Encompass meeting where we were presented with > information about the C class blade systems. One of the topics that > came up was the ability to create virtual network adaptors to be used > by systems internal to the C class chassis. That is interesting. Back in february, HP folks said that there was nothing special about interconnects that VMS instances would use ethernet for interconnect. I wonder if the folks in February were wrong/ignorant, or whether there have been "additions" to the specs since last february with VMS finding a way to do high speed interconnects. This changes those C class blades from being rather useless to VMS to being something to look into if you really must have multiple machines in the same room. Since the concept of blades is really to deal with Windows' inability to run multiple applications (and hence have multiple windows machines), I never saw that much use for blades in a VMS environment. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 23:21:56 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: OpenVMS Support for C-class Blades Message-ID: On 06/09/07 13:23, JF Mezei wrote: [snip] > > Since the concept of blades is really to deal with Windows' inability to > run multiple applications (and hence have multiple windows machines), I > never saw that much use for blades in a VMS environment. Especially since Rdb (and VMS?) are licensed by the processor. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 15:10:19 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: OT: Lightning & Time to buy lottery tickets Message-ID: <466AFB1B.5070804@comcast.net> JF Mezei wrote: > At about 22:57, there was a big bang, flash of light, all the relays on > the old DEC power supplied clicked, smoke came out of the computer > cabinet, but lights then remained on. > > > Lightning hit about 30m from our house on a 12kv line that feeds a > townhouse complex across the street from our backdoor neighbours. > > Thankfully, there is a fuse between the point of lighting strike and the > upstream 12kv line that also feeds our house and it blew, but not before > allowing some of the surve to propagate on the 12kv line. > > That pole is less than 5m from our backdoor neighbour's house. > > 4 ports on the cisco switch remain amber and are not working. One of > those ports was unused. One was connected to an IMAC on the top floor > (long ethernet cable). The imac's ethernet appears blown. My guess is > that a surge happened either on the imac or on the ethernet cable itseld > (electromagnetic stuff on a long wire) which burned the imac's ethernet > interface and the cisco switch's ports. (I would assume the switch is > built with hardware for each group of 4 ports). > > Question: Is it more likely that the imac funneled a power surge to the > ethernet, or is it likely that the nearby lighting caused a current to > flow on the long ethernet cable, burning the ethernet interfaces at both > ends ? > > The DSL modem retained DSL sync, but the PPPoE session was zapped when > the cisco switch went down and the router couldn't talk to the modem. > > > I haven't checked my lottery ticket (drawn 2 hours before lightning), > but I guess I should be a winner :-) > > That telephone pole is amongst trees that separate our properties from a > park where there are very tall poles for park lighting. Always though > lightning would hit the tall park lights instead of hitting the shorter > trees next to us. > > And the lightning did not hit the pole at its tallest portion. On top > is the relatively thin 12Kv line. It then goes down underground to the > nearby townhouse complex. A fuse links the thin overhead line to a > thicker insulated cable that goes underground to the townhouse complex. > Lighthning hit that insulated cable just before it goes in the metal > conduit that brings it underground. > > Initially, it was thought lightning had hit the townhouse complex and > firetrucks were called in. But no visible damage was found. > > This is "act of god",( probably because I asked Bob a difficult question > ;-) so the odds of getting any money back are quite low. You can buy a box called "Zero Surge" from" Zero Surge Inc. 103 Claremont Road Bernardsville, NJ that will protect your equipment from surges on the AC line. Each one is good for something like 1800W. I think you can buy filters of some sort for UTP Ethernet that will protect things from inductive coupling of nearby lightning strikes but I have no details. AC power can be pretty "raggedy ass" in some places; with sags, surges, and brownouts being the order of the day. Putting some protective equipment between your equipment and the power company just might save you a lot of money some day. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 17:33:15 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: OT: Lightning & Time to buy lottery tickets Message-ID: <466B2AAB.CC08DE18@spam.comcast.net> JF Mezei wrote: > > At about 22:57, there was a big bang, flash of light, all the relays on > the old DEC power supplied clicked, smoke came out of the computer > cabinet, but lights then remained on. > > Lightning hit about 30m from our house on a 12kv line that feeds a > townhouse complex across the street from our backdoor neighbours. > > Thankfully, there is a fuse between the point of lighting strike and the > upstream 12kv line that also feeds our house and it blew, but not before > allowing some of the surve to propagate on the 12kv line. > > That pole is less than 5m from our backdoor neighbour's house. > > 4 ports on the cisco switch remain amber and are not working. One of > those ports was unused. One was connected to an IMAC on the top floor > (long ethernet cable). The imac's ethernet appears blown. My guess is > that a surge happened either on the imac or on the ethernet cable itseld > (electromagnetic stuff on a long wire) which burned the imac's ethernet > interface and the cisco switch's ports. (I would assume the switch is > built with hardware for each group of 4 ports). > > Question: Is it more likely that the imac funneled a power surge to the > ethernet, or is it likely that the nearby lighting caused a current to > flow on the long ethernet cable, burning the ethernet interfaces at both > ends ? Think: EMP (Electro-Magnetic Pulse) - induction from energy flowing through the nearby lightning strike. Same thing happened to me about five years ago. Had a UTP cable run on the outside of the house. Lightning struck an evergreen shrub at the far corner of the yard. Lost two ports - one on my LANmodem and another on a PC NIC. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 21:54:59 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: OT: Lightning & Time to buy lottery tickets Message-ID: Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > You can buy a box called "Zero Surge" from" > Zero Surge Inc. > 103 Claremont Road > Bernardsville, NJ The neighbours have had similar ethernet problems. Based on what I have been told, there may be two phenomena at stake here: Induced currents in long ethernet cables. Ground differentials. Currents may be induced in the ground cabling of the house, especially if EMI affects 2nd floor more than basement and this make cause vaoltage differentials that are just too much for electronics. > and brownouts being the order of the day. Putting some protective > equipment between your equipment and the power company just might save > you a lot of money some day. I have some of the old MVII class power conditioners which have a huge condensor in them as well as relays and other stuff. Not sure how much of a surge protection they offer, but the relay offers a cerain time delay before reactivating the power, allowing one to avoid the rough startup phase of electrical power. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 23:43:07 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: OT: Lightning & Time to buy lottery tickets Message-ID: On 06/09/07 21:01, JF Mezei wrote: > David J Dachtera wrote: >> Think: EMP (Electro-Magnetic Pulse) > > > OK then, since EMP is most often associated with WMDs, I have to > conclude that GOD has declare war against my computers :-) There is no God. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 14:27:10 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: OT: Question to Bob Message-ID: >> >> Genesis 3:10 (Adam talking to God) >> >> " >> And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was >> naked; and I hid myself. >> " Translation: God had laced the forbidden Apple with Viagra. Adam was quite ashamed to sport a boner in front of god :-) :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 17:27:24 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: OT: Question to Bob Message-ID: <466B294C.3E7B7DD0@spam.comcast.net> JF Mezei wrote: > > resolve some conundrum asked by kirk> > > Mr Bob, > > If humans are a creation of god, would you agree that it is an exquisite > work of art ? > > If the human body is a work of art created by god, how come people hide > this work of art with clothes ? > > Shouldn't everyone be walking around totally naked everywhere in order > to honour God's work instead of being ashamed of it and trying to hide > it ? Isn't it insulting to God that we would be ashamed of his creation ? > > And, yes, that even includes being naked at the supermarket checkout > counter. Getting kinda brave there, huh, JF? Have your tormentor(s)/stalker(s) disappeared? If so, why do you tempt them to return? -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 23:37:01 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: OT: Question to Bob Message-ID: On 06/09/07 11:54, Doug Phillips wrote: [snip] > There are subtle differences in cultures that just don't carry over. > Even in one's native language certain words defy precise description. > The word "love" has a meaning that everyone understands. Yet, > countless words have been written about "love" and none have perfectly > defined it to everyone's satisfaction. One person's love might be > another person's lust or pity or envy or whatever. English can be a terribly imprecise language. The Greeks had (have?) 4 words for /love/, the Latins two words for /free/, and the Inuit 120+ words for /snow/. Maybe Muslims have it right by not translating the Koran into any other language. (Non-Arabic children must learn Arabic in addition to their native tongue, and that's got to be good for development of cognition.) > Reading is a personal experience. We form the book's world in our > imagination and though we might all read the same book, our worlds are > different. That's what the Bible and other Holy books are all about. > Personal. > > But Adam really thought he could hide from God? What a dork! Remember, in those early chapters, God regularly took on physical form to spend time with Adam. Thus, since children think they can hide from their parents, and Adam & Eve saw God as human-like, and did not have to work or worry, maybe they were childlike, as were the Elois in /The Time Machine/. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 23:18:46 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: porting ignorance (was Re: Story Time) Message-ID: On 06/09/07 07:07, Main, Kerry wrote: [snip] > classroom and graduate projects that port open source > applications-typically running on Linux or Open64-to OpenVMS. "It's a What's Open64? -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 15:31:45 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: SRM PGA Firmware Update Message-ID: I was trying to update the NVRAM firmware in some Fibre HBA's. On a couple of them, the card did not show list under SHO DEV but did under SHOW CONFIG Bus 00 Slot 17: DEGPA-SA Why is that? Apparently when LFU is booted it does a bus probe doesn't find the device probing hose 0, PCI probing PCI-to-ISA bridge, bus 1 bus 0, slot 9 -- ewa -- DE500-BA Network Controller bus 0, slot 11 -- ewb -- DE500-BA Network Controller bus 0, slot 13 -- dqa -- Acer Labs M1543C IDE bus 0, slot 13 -- dqb -- Acer Labs M1543C IDE initializing GCT/FRU at ff32000 and so does not load the PGA0 update firmware. However the DISPLAY command shows the same as the SRM SHOW CONFIG. -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 18:23:30 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: P. Sture wrote: > In article , > Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > >>> Not so many machines here, but also proud to say "no Weendoze", >>> >> Which seems nothing but dumb to me. >> There is clearly a lot of things (in particular >> on the "desktop") where a Windows PC is a far >> better choise the any VMS box. In the same way >> that there are *other* areas where a VMS box >> is better then a PC, of course. But what the >> heck have *proud* whis this to do ? >> > > It's about choice. Pure and simple. > > I can also argue that a Mac with OS X is a far better choice for many > things than a Windows PC. > > I arrived at my choice after considerable experience with Windows. It > was an informed, not dumb, decision. > Of course, but nothing to be particular proud about, is it ? One have to be quite a bit more unique for that, IMHO. Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 15:17:39 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: <466AFCD3.2070605@comcast.net> Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: >> >> Not so many machines here, but also proud to say "no Weendoze", >> > > Which seems nothing but dumb to me. > There is clearly a lot of things (in particular > on the "desktop") where a Windows PC is a far > better choise the any VMS box. In the same way > that there are *other* areas where a VMS box > is better then a PC, of course. But what the > heck have *proud* whis this to do ? > > Jan-Erik. VMS is not too good with office applications like word processing, or spreadsheets. AFAIK there's no Visio for VMS or any similar tool. Windoze and PCs have their place. Render unto Caesar. . . . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 21:17:35 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: In article , Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > P. Sture wrote: > > In article , > > Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > > > >>> Not so many machines here, but also proud to say "no Weendoze", > >>> > >> Which seems nothing but dumb to me. > >> There is clearly a lot of things (in particular > >> on the "desktop") where a Windows PC is a far > >> better choise the any VMS box. In the same way > >> that there are *other* areas where a VMS box > >> is better then a PC, of course. But what the > >> heck have *proud* whis this to do ? > >> > > > > It's about choice. Pure and simple. > > > > I can also argue that a Mac with OS X is a far better choice for many > > things than a Windows PC. > > > > I arrived at my choice after considerable experience with Windows. It > > was an informed, not dumb, decision. > > > > Of course, but nothing to be particular proud about, is it ? > One have to be quite a bit more unique for that, IMHO. > We'll have to agree to disagree on this one then, as I _am_ proud of not simply taking the easy option. -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: 9 Jun 2007 22:09:07 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: <5d0mo3F31rbg8U1@mid.individual.net> In article , "Main, Kerry" writes: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: bill@cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@cs.uofs.edu] On >> Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon >> Sent: June 8, 2007 12:54 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> Subject: Re: Story Time >>=20 >> In article >> > t>, >> "Main, Kerry" writes: >> > > > > [snip ...] > >> > >> > Did I note in one of your other replies that you stated your >> University >> > was running Banner on OpenVMS? >>=20 >> Yes. For the moment. I thought I had heard rumblings somewhere about >> Banner moving to Windows, but I can't say for sure. I hear lot's of >> rumors around here that aren't even close to reality. In any event, >> none of the users would have any idea that VMS is involved as all >> access >> is through Windows interfaces. >>=20 >> > >> > Thx >>=20 >> Your welcome, but I don't know what value this info actually is to >> you. :-) >>=20 >> bill >>=20 > > > Well, my experience with Banner on Universities is that this is *the" > mission critical application of the University. It is similar to SAP in > companies as it contains HR, payroll, registration, scheduling and many > other aspects of running the University. > > My point is that unless your University is different than other > Universities I have been involved with, while OpenVMS may not play a big > part on the Academic side of the University, if Banner is running on it, > then it is typically the *heart* of the University Administration. It > sounds like OpenVMS is indeed playing a huge role in your University. Yes, but, 1. That role is totally invisible. 2. It exists totally at the whim of Banner. If Banner moves to Windows Server2k3 (or 2k5 or Longhorn) VMS goes out the door in a heartbeat along with the extremely high cost of maintaining multiple systems (Windows is already in the datacenter and unlike VMS, there is no possibility that it will be leaving.) > > In addition, while the Academic side of the University tends to jump > from technology to technology (depending on the College), the > Administration is much more conservative and risk adverse. See above. > > Note - from what I have heard (no direct experience), switching Banner > platforms is not an easy task due to all of the customization that > typically occurs over the years - regardless of the platform. And if Banner announces that t hey are going to stop supporting VMS, that difficulty becomes moot. > > Re: Windows GUI for Banner .. exactly what many OpenVMS application > environments have done i.e. rock solid, ultra high security on the back > end with user friendly front ends. And while other platform environments > try to keep up with the numerous monthly security patches, this platform > just keeps on running. Btw, it likely is also running Oracle as well.=20 Of coourse it is. But Oracle doesn't REQUIRE VMS. It runs on other platforms, including Windows. Why would they continue to run Oracle on VMS if Banner moves? Right now, Banner is the only thing keeping VMS in the administrative side of education. What happens when Banner decides, like so many others, that VMS has no long term viability? They begin the port, announce it to their customers who in turn start planning their switch and once those wheels are in motion it would likely take an act of god to stop it. > > Certainly nothing wrong with this GUI picture. In fact, if the Admin > side has been keeping up, they may even be monitoring and managing the > OpenVMS back end with Java or Windows based GUI's from client side > desktops e.g. Availability Manager or OpenVMS Console Manager or other > client side GUI's available for managing OpenVMS. All of which reduces the visibility of VMS and with HP telling no one about it, is it any wonder that so many people think VMS is dead already? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 9 Jun 2007 22:13:07 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: <5d0mvjF31rbg8U2@mid.individual.net> In article , "P. Sture" writes: > In article , > Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > >> > >> > Not so many machines here, but also proud to say "no Weendoze", >> > >> >> Which seems nothing but dumb to me. >> There is clearly a lot of things (in particular >> on the "desktop") where a Windows PC is a far >> better choise the any VMS box. In the same way >> that there are *other* areas where a VMS box >> is better then a PC, of course. But what the >> heck have *proud* whis this to do ? >> > > It's about choice. Pure and simple. > > I can also argue that a Mac with OS X is a far better choice for many > things than a Windows PC. And how is a Mac running OS X any better than any other Unix desktop solution? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 23:13:24 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: On 06/09/07 14:17, Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: >>> >>> Not so many machines here, but also proud to say "no Weendoze", >>> >> >> Which seems nothing but dumb to me. >> There is clearly a lot of things (in particular >> on the "desktop") where a Windows PC is a far >> better choise the any VMS box. In the same way >> that there are *other* areas where a VMS box >> is better then a PC, of course. But what the >> heck have *proud* whis this to do ? >> >> Jan-Erik. > > VMS is not too good with office applications like word processing, or > spreadsheets. AFAIK there's no Visio for VMS or any similar tool. > > Windoze and PCs have their place. Render unto Caesar. . . . *Most* tasks you can do with MS Windows you can also accomplish with "desktop Unix" (Linux or OS X, but *not* FreeBSD). Sometimes, though, you'll have to do them a bit differently. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 23:16:31 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: On 06/09/07 06:38, Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply >> [mailto:helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de] >> Sent: June 9, 2007 4:05 AM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> Subject: RE: Story Time [snip] >> Why not a graphical front end runnin VMS, e.g. a small, cheap >> satellite >> or an X-terminal? Why not a COMPLETE VMS solution, which is possible? >> Why the need for Windows at all? > > Availability Manager is Java based and is fully supported on OpenVMS > (Alpha and IA64) or Windows platforms. > > You decide which platform you want to use. > > Reference: > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/availman/index.html > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/availman/news.html Ah, so *this* is the app that my SysAdmin is always grumbling about. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 16:33:04 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: [Q]Pascal packed arrary of char and varying of char Message-ID: <466b0e7b$0$90270$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Barratt, Chris (FMC) wrote: > or use a call to STR$TRIM, rather than code it yourself.... str$trim(namevary.body, namevary, namevary.length); would also work. Arne ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.315 ************************