INFO-VAX Wed, 23 May 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 282 Contents: CDC software (formerly known as Ross Systems) to drop Gembase VMS support DECC, printf and sys$output Re: DECC, printf and sys$output Re: DECC, printf and sys$output Re: DECC, printf and sys$output Re: Does NASA/JPL etc still use VMS? Re: Does NASA/JPL etc still use VMS? Indexed file (RMS) IRC$V_RRV question Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Re: Managing LAT terminal servers (was replacing) Re: New Zealnders now laughing at global warming Re: New Zealnders now laughing at global warming Re: New Zealnders now laughing at global warming Re: Noahs ark found! Re: Noahs ark found! Re: Noahs ark found! Re: problems with stack dump on itanium Re: problems with stack dump on itanium Re: question on routers recognizing newly created device on HSG80 Re: recognizing newly created device on HSG80 Re: recognizing newly created device on HSG80 Re: recognizing newly created device on HSG80 Re: recognizing newly created device on HSG80 Re: recognizing newly created device on HSG80 Re: recognizing newly created device on HSG80 Re: recognizing newly created device on HSG80 Re: recognizing newly created device on HSG80 Re: recognizing newly created device on HSG80 Re: recognizing newly created device on HSG80 Re: recognizing newly created device on HSG80 Re: Rename Volume Labels Re: Rename Volume Labels Re: Rename Volume Labels Re: Rename Volume Labels Re: Rename Volume Labels Re: Rename Volume Labels Re: Replacing LAT terminal servers Re: Replacing LAT terminal servers Re: Replacing LAT terminal servers Re: Replacing LAT terminal servers Re: Replacing LAT terminal servers Re: Still want: LK461 keyboard Re: Still want: LK461 keyboard Re: Still want: LK461 keyboard Re: Still want: LK461 keyboard Re: Still want: LK461 keyboard Re: Still want: LK461 keyboard Re: Still want: LK461 keyboard Re: TCPIP glitch wih aliases Re: TCPIP programming (sockaddr_in question) Re: TCPIP programming (sockaddr_in question) Re: TCPIP programming (sockaddr_in question) TCPIP Services SMTP, RBLs blocking all inbound email Re: UUEN/DECODE? Re: UUEN/DECODE? Re: UUEN/DECODE? VAXstation 4k motherboard with TurboChannel Adapter available Re: VAXstation 4k motherboard with TurboChannel Adapter available What happened to the ITRC forum? Re: What happened to the ITRC forum? Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Xpdf 3.02 for OpenVMS/Itanium Re: Xpdf 3.02 for OpenVMS/Itanium Re: [TCPIP] UUEN/DECODE? Re: [TCPIP] UUEN/DECODE? Re: [TCPIP] UUEN/DECODE? Re: [TCPIP] UUEN/DECODE? Re: [TCPIP] UUEN/DECODE? Re: [TCPIP] UUEN/DECODE? Re: [TCPIP] UUEN/DECODE? Re: [TCPIP] UUEN/DECODE? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 09:52:55 -0400 From: "Syltrem" Subject: CDC software (formerly known as Ross Systems) to drop Gembase VMS support Message-ID: <1358hpp3ilgls62@corp.supernews.com> Hello group For those of you running Gembase on their Alpha / Itanium servers, know that CDC software's roadmap shows that the next version of Gembase (8.x) will be the last one supported on VMS. So by 2011 at most that will be the end for us. I don't think they realize how much that will cost their customers. We have many applications that are linked to Gembase -- mainly through Oracle and RMS files but we also have complex, external coding using Basic subroutines to do some suff not otherwise possible with Gembase. And of course a lot of DCL around everything. We've been with VMS for 25+ years... and I don`t see what other OS could do some of the things we're used to... Let's just hope hey change their mind, or that HP does something to persuade them not to drop VMS. Porting this to another platform (and ensuring proper disaster recovery capabilities) will be very time consuming and costly, but switching to another ERP system would be much worse, as changing platform should not affect end users where the latter would (of course). So that's another software vendor that will drive VMS down the drain a bit further. Those of you concerned by this should complain to CDC and HP. Right now they (CDC) apparently only talked to a few customers to conclude they will all happily drop VMS in a couple of years from now, so why should they keep VMS in their supported platforms portfolio? It appears like their VMS customer base is on a slow downhill slope. Is this going to continue until they are not in sufficient number to justify the expense? Will all VMS customers drop it in favor of something else ? Are we (my company) so different ? Pls speak ! We have very costly journey in front of us... -- Syltrem http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS information and help, en français) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 07:17:14 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: DECC, printf and sys$output Message-ID: OK, I am somewhat at a loss here. Alpha, VMS 8.3 Given a CHOCOLATE.C which uses printf to generate output: $DEFINE/USER SYS$OUTPUT temp.txt $RUN chocolate.exe How come the output still goes to the terminal (DECTERM) ??????? $PIPE RUN CHOCOLATE > TEMP.TXT did send the output to the file. The HELP for PIPE says that it takes the SYS$OUTPUT of the first command to feed it to the second part. So how come PIPE was able to get to the printf output, but a DEFINE/USER of SYS$OUTPUT didn't ? (this was done from the SYSTEM account in case privileges might make a difference to behaviour). ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 07:54:28 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: DECC, printf and sys$output Message-ID: In article , JF Mezei writes: > OK, I am somewhat at a loss here. > > Alpha, VMS 8.3 > > Given a CHOCOLATE.C which uses printf to generate output: > > $DEFINE/USER SYS$OUTPUT temp.txt > $RUN chocolate.exe > > How come the output still goes to the terminal (DECTERM) ??????? > > > $PIPE RUN CHOCOLATE > TEMP.TXT did send the output to the file. > Just tried it here on Eisner and the first pair of commands did create temp.txt. I'll try it again under 8.3 when I can. What version of the compiler are you using? ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 10:04:09 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: DECC, printf and sys$output Message-ID: <9ukvKyf1UJP+@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , JF Mezei writes: > OK, I am somewhat at a loss here. > > Alpha, VMS 8.3 > > Given a CHOCOLATE.C which uses printf to generate output: > > $DEFINE/USER SYS$OUTPUT temp.txt > $RUN chocolate.exe > > How come the output still goes to the terminal (DECTERM) ??????? > Are those commands actually back-to-back in the command file? You didn't slip a "SHOW LOGICAL" in between for testing? [That would be a bad thing -- SHOW LOGICAL causes user mode logical names to disappear when it runs down] Just to make sure, can you code SYS$TRNLNM into chocolate.exe and verify that SYS$OUTPUT is what you expect it to be? > > $PIPE RUN CHOCOLATE > TEMP.TXT did send the output to the file. PIPE creates a supervisor mode translation for SYS$OUTPUT. This translation is a PPF logical name. DEFINE /USER creates a user mode translation that is not a PPF. But that's not supposed to matter. The CRTL should be able to connect the stdout file descriptor to your SYS$OUTPUT either way. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 16:54:58 +0100 From: Chris Sharman Subject: Re: DECC, printf and sys$output Message-ID: briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: > In article , JF Mezei writes: >> OK, I am somewhat at a loss here. >> >> Alpha, VMS 8.3 >> >> Given a CHOCOLATE.C which uses printf to generate output: >> >> $DEFINE/USER SYS$OUTPUT temp.txt >> $RUN chocolate.exe >> >> How come the output still goes to the terminal (DECTERM) ??????? >> > > Are those commands actually back-to-back in the command file? > You didn't slip a "SHOW LOGICAL" in between for testing? > > [That would be a bad thing -- SHOW LOGICAL causes user mode > logical names to disappear when it runs down] Indeed - the older "$ sho trans" is safe. The other thing which would cause that is a ctrl/Y immediately before the def/user - I've been got by that several times - image rundown (& deletion of user logicals) then happens immediately before chocolate. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 08:40:41 +0200 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: Does NASA/JPL etc still use VMS? Message-ID: <4653e242$0$7604$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk> Vance Haemmerle wrote: > Bob Koehler wrote: >> In article <1179699683.511398.99630@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, >> "tomarsin2015@comcast.net" writes: >>> Refering to the banking and health-care, is VMS still used in the >>> space/astronomy field. I can recall once that there was some >>> software written for VMS in the space industry, but now its all for >>> either SUN/ Windows/Unix. >>> phillip >> >> >> I can tell you with absolute certainty that VMS is used every day >> in space and astronomy, and that much software written for VMS >> now runs on other platforms. >> > > The Multimission Image Processing Laboratory (MIPL) at JPL > decommissioned their VMS machines in 2003 with the retirement of > Galileo a couple of years after I started working at JPL. VICAR, > their image processing system, ( > http://www-mipl.jpl.nasa.gov/external/vicar.html ) which was ported > from IBM in the early 80s to VMS and then to unix in the mid-90s had its > last VMS version (D29) in 2003. Now it's all Solaris and Linux. The only > VMS I know at JPL is an Alpha that is still being used by the NIMS team > (instrument on Galileo). A VAX used by a co-worker as a printer > driver was decommissioned a year or two ago. > At least previously, there was some space shuttle rocket engine (?) rdb database application in use. Since the shuttle is still flying, I would have guessed that the application was as well. But my recollection is a bit fuzzy. Dweeb > The Cassini Imaging Team lead also used VAXes and Alphas running VMS > which I managed. I kept VMS alive there for many years, but when she > moved from Tucson to Boulder, CO and I didn't follow, they dropped it. > > Vance ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 16:08:18 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Does NASA/JPL etc still use VMS? Message-ID: Hi, > At least previously, there was some space shuttle rocket engine (?) rdb > database application in use. Since the shuttle is still flying, I would > have guessed that the application was as well. But my recollection is a bit > fuzzy. FWIW there was someone very recently with a nasa.gov e-mail address trying to get the Java Thin client/server working with Rdb. In my experience VMS can still be found anywhere and everywhere although people keep telling you that it'll be gone "next year". If only customers had a decent middleware solution that allowed them to expose and integrate their rich heritage of VMS based data and 3GL resources with the latest GUI and web based solutions. If only HP's VMS employees hadn't all lost their bottle and were now confined to parroting the latest Gartner report verbatim. You guys at the Bootcamp; go on ask 'em for their WS-AT offering or why we can "really" put up with Business Activity transactions and how ACID was just Old School anal retention. (But I digress) Cheers Richard Maher "Dr. Dweeb" wrote in message news:4653e242$0$7604$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk... > Vance Haemmerle wrote: > > Bob Koehler wrote: > >> In article <1179699683.511398.99630@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, > >> "tomarsin2015@comcast.net" writes: > >>> Refering to the banking and health-care, is VMS still used in the > >>> space/astronomy field. I can recall once that there was some > >>> software written for VMS in the space industry, but now its all for > >>> either SUN/ Windows/Unix. > >>> phillip > >> > >> > >> I can tell you with absolute certainty that VMS is used every day > >> in space and astronomy, and that much software written for VMS > >> now runs on other platforms. > >> > > > > The Multimission Image Processing Laboratory (MIPL) at JPL > > decommissioned their VMS machines in 2003 with the retirement of > > Galileo a couple of years after I started working at JPL. VICAR, > > their image processing system, ( > > http://www-mipl.jpl.nasa.gov/external/vicar.html ) which was ported > > from IBM in the early 80s to VMS and then to unix in the mid-90s had its > > last VMS version (D29) in 2003. Now it's all Solaris and Linux. The only > > VMS I know at JPL is an Alpha that is still being used by the NIMS team > > (instrument on Galileo). A VAX used by a co-worker as a printer > > driver was decommissioned a year or two ago. > > > > At least previously, there was some space shuttle rocket engine (?) rdb > database application in use. Since the shuttle is still flying, I would > have guessed that the application was as well. But my recollection is a bit > fuzzy. > > Dweeb > > > The Cassini Imaging Team lead also used VAXes and Alphas running VMS > > which I managed. I kept VMS alive there for many years, but when she > > moved from Tucson to Boulder, CO and I didn't follow, they dropped it. > > > > Vance > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 07:47:28 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Indexed file (RMS) IRC$V_RRV question Message-ID: While parsing/fixing an indexed file (yeah I finally have time to finish this!), I have encountered instances of the following: A bucket with 2 records in it. The first one is a deleted record, with record size of 65 (which is the key size) and a valid key being provided. The second record has the "fill2" bit in IRCDEF module definitions, but ANA/RMS/INTERACTIVE calls it irc$v_rrv . It has what appears to be a random value for the record length and no valid record data. In this phantom record, the rrv_vbn field contains the same VBN value as "next bucket" value in the bucket's header. So I assume that this was place in the bucket at the time of a split to ensure data integrity. Is this correct ? If I must rebuild this bucket (I rebuild it from scratch and then add recoverable records one by one), can I safely omit this RRV record from the end of the bucket ? AKA: once the split was succesfully completed, does that RRV phantom record still serve a purpose ? Can I safely assume that these RRV records are always the last record in a bucket ? I used the following structure to parse the record header: (inspired from IRCDEF in SYS$LIB_C.TLB ) > struct record_head_struct { > struct { > unsigned irc$$_fill1 : 2 ; > unsigned irc$x_deleted : 1 ; > unsigned irc$$_fill2 : 1 ; > unsigned irc$x_noptrsz : 1 ; > unsigned irc$x_ru_delete : 1 ; > unsigned irc$x_ru_update : 1 ; > unsigned irc$x_first_key : 1 ; > } flag ; > short record_id ; > short rrv_id ; > int rrv_vbn ; > short length ; > } ; *************************** Bucket at VBN=23599 Record: irc$$_fill1=2 irc$x_deleted=1 irc$$_fill2=0 irc$x_noptrsz=0 irc$x_first_key=0 irc$x_ru_delete=0 irc$x_ru_update=0 record_id=29 rrv_id=29 rrv_vbn=23599 length=65 key=>OA$SHARE29:ZAYNGP3AP.TXT Record: irc$$_fill1=2 irc$x_deleted=0 irc$$_fill2=1 irc$x_noptrsz=0 irc$x_first_key=0 irc$x_ru_delete=0 irc$x_ru_update=0 record_id=34 rrv_id=5 rrv_vbn=24745 length=8224 key=> ANALYZE> pos 23599/bucket BUCKET HEADER (VBN 23599) Check Character: %X'73' Key of Reference: 0 VBN Sample: 23599 Free Space Offset: %X'0063' Free Record ID: 46 Next Bucket VBN: 24745 Level: 0 Bucket Header Flags: (0) BKT$V_LASTBKT 0 ANALYZE> down PRIMARY DATA RECORD (VBN 23599, offset %X'000E') Record Control Flags: (2) IRC$V_DELETED 1 (3) IRC$V_RRV 0 (4) IRC$V_NOPTRSZ 0 (5) IRC$V_RU_DELETE 0 (6) IRC$V_RU_UPDATE 0 Record ID: 29 RRV ID: 29, 4-Byte Bucket Pointer: 23599 Key: 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 01234567 ------------------------ -------- 45 52 41 48 53 24 41 4F| 0000 |OA$SHARE| 47 4E 59 41 5A 3A 39 32| 0008 |29:ZAYNG| 54 58 54 2E 50 41 33 50| 0010 |P3AP.TXT| 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20| 0018 | | 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20| 0020 | | 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20| 0028 | | 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20| 0030 | | 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20| 0038 | | 20| 0040 | | ANALYZE> next PRIMARY DATA RECORD (VBN 23599, offset %X'005A') Record Control Flags: (2) IRC$V_DELETED 0 (3) IRC$V_RRV 1 (4) IRC$V_NOPTRSZ 0 (5) IRC$V_RU_DELETE 0 (6) IRC$V_RU_UPDATE 0 Record ID: 34 RRV ID: 5, 4-Byte Bucket Pointer: 24745 ANALYZE> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 10:00:47 -0400 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Message-ID: <27333$46544908$cef88320$2763@TEKSAVVY.COM-Free> Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca] >> Sent: May 20, 2007 12:58 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> Subject: Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? >> >> re: mainframes >> > > > [snip ...] > >> >> The big question is whether Oracle will succeed in making Linux a >> serious platform, acceptable to banks for serious applications. > > mmm... with 5-20 security patches released each and every month? > > Good luck to them .. > > Yeah, I can see the banks jumping all over this as they are not > concerned to much about security are they? > > And in terms of cost savings, I know the billions of $'s in profit > banks make each year is not much, so I can see them really being under > pressure to get rid of those nice, safe back end systems. > > :-) Being *very* active in the financial services indusrty, I can assure you that Oracle, notwithstanding its mult-patches per month, and Linux with its patch du jour approach are in fact supplanting most things. There are very few customers still using VMS, and of those, some are fully committed to VMS whilst most are looking to migrate to unix...usually to Solaris or AIX. I can't recall the last time I saw a shop have any significant PHUX in-house. -- OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV and customer base. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 16:50:56 +0100 From: Chris Sharman Subject: Re: Managing LAT terminal servers (was replacing) Message-ID: Chris Sharman wrote: > I saw that TSM had become freeware - it's possibly the best option, but > I never found the documentation, so never got into it. > > I'll have another look around for TSM etc - does it do Emulex (P4000?) Found & installed tsm from http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware60/tsm/tsm.zip (tsmeco07021, 08, 09): installed 7, without the ivp, then ran @tsm_pak, then installed 8 & 9 with ivp. Answered yes to everything. Still not found any kind of beginners' guide - can anyone help? a url, a pdf, or anything much appreciated. There may be a decade's worth of digital cd subscription around here somewhere, if they've not been binned in my absence - was it on there? Tried to add a server (our one working DECserver 700), but got the following errors. %TSM-E-NET_OBJECT, Error returned by NML; more information follows Privilege Violation. %TSM-W-NO_MATCH, No TSM service circuits match the DECnet database Dialog below (running under SYSTEM with full privs): Still no idea whether it can handle our Emulex Performance 4000 servers (13 out of 15). Any help appreciated. Thanks Chris Installing Terminal Server Manager VMS Version V2.1-09... Restoring the remaining TSM distribution kit files... Adding TSM to DCL command tables... Adding TSM to VMS help library... Defining and setting OBJECT NML to PROXY BOTH ALIAS OUTGOING ENABLED Enabling SERVICE on EWA-0... After the installation use AUTHORIZE to create proxy accounts for all the TSM users (if you have not done so already). Installation procedure for Terminal Server Manager V2.1-09 has completed. %VMSINSTAL-I-MOVEFILES, Files will now be moved to their target directories... © Digital Equipment Corporation 1990, 1994. All rights reserved. Beginning the TSM Installation Verification Procedure. Please ignore the following TSM test data. Terminal Server Manager V2.1-09 Copyright © Digital Equipment Corporation. 1994, 1995 All Rights Reserved. Usage is DIRECTORY Server: IVP_TEST_TSM Circuit(s): EWA-0 Address: FE-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF Maint. Password: 0000000000000000 Type: DS100 Login Password: ACCESS Partition name: DEFAULT DECnet Address: 0 Dump File: SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSTEST]DS1IVP_TEST_TSM.DMP Image File: SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSTEST]PS0801ENG.SYS Reference File: SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSTEST]IVP_TEST_TSM.TXT Installation Verification Procedure for TSM has completed successfully Installation of TSMECO09 V2.1 completed at 16:12 Adding history entry in VMI$ROOT:[SYSUPD]VMSINSTAL.HISTORY Creating installation data file: VMI$ROOT:[SYSUPD]TSMECO09021.VMI_DATA VMSINSTAL procedure done at 16:12 $ ncp sh nod nereus char Node Volatile Characteristics as of 23-MAY-2007 16:27:50 Remote node = 2.25 (NEREUS) Service circuit = EWA-0 Hardware address = 08-00-2B-3C-7A-84 Load file = SYS$SYSROOT:[DECSERVER]WWENG1.SYS Dump file = CLU_COMMON:[DECSERVER]DS7NEREUS.DMP $ tsm add ser nereus Address :08-00-2B-3C-7A-84 Type ( DS100 ):DS700 Circuit ( EWA-0 ): Maintenance Password ( 0000000000000000 ): Login Password ( ACCESS ): Partition Name ( DEFAULT ): DECnet Address ( 0 ):2.25 Dump File ( SYS$COMMON:[DECSERVER]DS7NEREUS.DMP ):CLU_COMMON:[DECSERVER]DS7NEREUS.DMP Image File ( SYS$SYSROOT:[DECSERVER]WWENG1.SYS ): Reference File ( SYS$SYSROOT:[DECSERVER]NEREUS.TXT ): %TSM-I-NML_STARTUP, TSM is establishing a link to NML - please wait %TSM-E-NET_OBJECT, Error returned by NML; more information follows Privilege Violation. %TSM-W-NO_MATCH, No TSM service circuits match the DECnet database $ ncp sh k line Known Line Volatile Summary as of 23-MAY-2007 16:29:32 Line State EIA-0 off EWA-0 on $ ncp sh k c Known Circuit Volatile Summary as of 23-MAY-2007 16:29:35 Circuit State Loopback Adjacent Name Routing Node EIA-0 off EWA-0 on ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 02:17:07 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: New Zealnders now laughing at global warming Message-ID: Neil Rieck wrote: > that Greenland's ice doesn't rise too far from the ocean's surface. It does, unless you consider 6km to be thin. This represents a HUGE volume of stored water. And it also represents a huge area of land which, as it starts to get clear of snow, will capture much more sunlight and accelerate the warming of the island and accelerate the melting of the ice. Remember that it won't take much of a rise in ocean levels to cause a lot of problems. Consider a city like New Orleans. Raise ocean level by half a metre and the next hurricane to hit will definitely push a surge of water that will go over the levies every year. Consider the main new york airports. They are not exactly high about sea level, and a big wind storm with slightly higher water levels will just push water onto the runways. Osaka's airport will become under sea level. Much of the netherland may not be able to cope with higher ocean levels. And Venice, already too low, will suffer greatly. Areas such as Maldives and florida keys will get washed away with every typhoon/hurricane/cyclone. Consider the economic impacts on insurance companies when the weather causes more and more destruction year after year. What happens when a big storm hits new york and water enters subway tunnels ? You may not be flooded where you are in Ontario, but in the end, the insurance rates you pay for your home will rise because the big insurance wholesales like Lloyds of London will charge a lot more money for insurance on insurance companies. Nobody will cry when homes of the rich and famous along the california coast are destroyed by some storm with waves crashing into their living rooms. But insurance companies won't like this happening every year. > This means the volume is low and, for the purpose of this discussion, > we can get away with comparing the surface are of Greenland to the > surface area of all the oceans; the resulting fraction is quite small. > > Don't take my conclusion the wrong way. Global warming is real and > mankind must act now. BTW, the Antartic ice does rise quite a bit > higher than Greenland although still not as high as any mountain made > from rock. > > p.s. Today the BBC put a reporter on that 10 mile long 3 mile wide > piece of ice that just broke away from Greenland. This thing is huge > and the scientists being interviewed stated that we will all be > screwed if this thing drifts into the oil rigs just off the coast of > New Foundland. > > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, > Ontario, Canada. > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 02:29:55 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: New Zealnders now laughing at global warming Message-ID: <43933$4653df7a$cef8887a$16385@TEKSAVVY.COM> Neil Rieck wrote: > p.s. Today the BBC put a reporter on that 10 mile long 3 mile wide > piece of ice that just broke away from Greenland. This thing is huge > and the scientists being interviewed stated that we will all be > screwed if this thing drifts into the oil rigs just off the coast of > New Foundland. It actually broke away a year or two ago. But it has been noticed last year and this is the first attempt to land on it. And no, ice that far north doesn't flow down to newfoundland, it rotates around the pole and will end up in russia and then northern alaska. (or perhaps the other way around). There isn't much off-shore oil drilling (yet) in the arctic due to the ice. When I was there in 1989, there were test rigs next the Hershell Island and some north of Tuktoyaktuk. Not sure how they dealt with winter. ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 12:35:04 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: New Zealnders now laughing at global warming Message-ID: <5biqnoF2spdsoU3@mid.individual.net> In article , JF Mezei writes: > > Consider a city like New Orleans. Raise ocean level by half a metre and > the next hurricane to hit will definitely push a surge of water that > will go over the levies every year. > And yet, after loosing everything and really having nothing to go back there for people are flocking back and being strongly encouraged to do so by the local government knowing full well that they are very likely to get wiped out yet again. Go figure!! People here do realize that the US is so big there is plenty of land available to relocate all those people permanently at a tremendous saving over the cost of continuously rebuilding New Orleans. And someone in an earlier post mentioned how much time JFK would spend underwater if the oceans rose even a little bit. Can you say Schipol? I knew you could!! bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 10:14:53 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: Noahs ark found! Message-ID: In article <1179880417.268547.226000@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, AEF wrote: > On May 21, 11:56 am, "FredK" wrote: > > > > There *are* forums devoted to almost anything. You can find lots of people > > who agree with you, without risking ridicule from people you may need to > > interact with professionally. > > But newsgroups for topics of great general interest are often filled > with severely obnoxious posters. > Very true. Let's make a determined effort to avoid that happening to this news group, eh? -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 04:37:50 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Noahs ark found! Message-ID: You know what would have been great ? If they had not only found Noah's Ark, but also found that it had been running VMS and once they plugged in the systems, they booted without problem after thousands of years of inactivity. They would have found it was running version 34.7, running on a descendant of the 8086, built in a 100 years just before we learn to time travel and go back in time to warn Noah to build an ark to save the earth from a great flood and provide him with a VMS system to book/register all passengers/animals on his cruise ship :-) Such news would be great because it would provide proof that VMS would continue to be developped for the next 100 years and be ported to a viable platform. And this would provide invaluable marketing opportunities, knowing VMS will be around for a long time and will be *THE* OS that is brought back in time to save civilisation from a great flood. ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 12:26:42 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Noahs ark found! Message-ID: <5biq82F2spdsoU2@mid.individual.net> In article <1179880417.268547.226000@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > On May 21, 11:56 am, "FredK" wrote: >> "Andrew" wrote in message >> >> news:1179760297.803505.65120@36g2000prm.googlegroups.com... >> >> >> >> > On 30 Apr, 15:25, Dirk Munk wrote: >> >> gen...@marblecliff.com wrote: >> >> > the same researcher who helped bring about the discovery >> >> > of Mount Sinai now believes he has found Noahs ark on a >> >> > mountain in Iran ... scroll to the bottom and look at the >> >> > pictures and video ... >> >> >> >http://www.arkfever.com/ >> >> >> This time Boob is right. What you see on the pictures is the stern of >> >> the ark. On it they found the inscription "Noahs Ark - Monrovia" in >> >> Hebrew. That proofs Boob is not mistaken this time. >> >> > Thats what you get if you register your ark under a flag of >> > convenience, wildly off course and stuck up a mountain with no >> > navigable water in site. >> >> That was the best thing ever written in this thread. >> >> Sigh. Why do people insist on discussing politics and religion in groups >> like this? >> >> - I have not once seen someones mind changed. > > There could be someone sitting on the fence whose mind is changed and > doesn't post to say so. > >> >> - At best you get those who agree with you agreeing. > > I certainly hope so! > >> >> - At worst, you will be exposed as an idiot. > > This is always a risk!!! 8-D "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 05:29:59 -0700 From: guenterg2005-google@yahoo.de Subject: Re: problems with stack dump on itanium Message-ID: <1179923399.808529.43130@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On 22 Mai, 16:05, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article <1179821800.488553.13...@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, guenterg2005-goo...@yahoo.de writes: > > hi, > > I have a problem with a stack dump from a C++ program under VMS > > Itanium V8.3, C++ V7.2-018. > > The line number which is shown in the stack dump doesn't point to the > > correct line number. If I look to the shown line number in the source > > code it's a completly different routine. > > Anybody has the same problem? Is it a bug? > > One additional information, the program is a multithreaded program. > > 1) make absolutely sure you are looking at the line number from > the C++ compiler listing (not a source editor) for the same > build as the executable you're running will work on ALPHA but not on I64. Dump says %TRACE-I-LINENUMBER, Leading '#' specifies a source file record number. > > 2) if that confirms the wrong line number, then rebuild the program > with assembly language listing and a linker map and you can figure > out where you really were from the addresses in the stack dump I'll wait for the next compiler release ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 05:31:24 -0700 From: guenterg2005-google@yahoo.de Subject: Re: problems with stack dump on itanium Message-ID: <1179923484.412941.9730@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On 22 Mai, 16:03, "Ed Vogel" wrote: > wrote in message > > news:1179821800.488553.13080@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... > > >hi, > >I have a problem with a stack dump from a C++ program under VMS > >Itanium V8.3, C++ V7.2-018. > >The line number which is shown in the stack dump doesn't point to the > >correct line number. If I look to the shown line number in the source > >code it's a completly different routine. > >Anybody has the same problem? Is it a bug? > >One additional information, the program is a multithreaded program. > > There are a number of problems with traceback information > with C++ V7.2 on Integrity. Some of these are documented in > the Release Notes. > > We have corrected most of the problems in the next release, V7.3 > which is currently in field test. Of note, debug and traceback line > numbers will not be the OpenVMS-standard "listing file number" > rather than the source file number which V7.2 has used. > > If you wish to know if your specific problem has been corrected, > you'll need to provide more information. > > We are sorry that problems in V7.2 have caused you difficulty. > > Ed Vogel > DEC/Compaq/HP C/C++ Engineering. Thanks for your answer! I'll wait for the 7.3 release and check it again ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 07:49:51 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: question on routers Message-ID: <8uia4Ky2wGmK@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <1179865746.442383.261640@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, rogv24@yahoo.com writes: > If I have two nodes on a network: "NODE A" with IP address 10.1.1.1 > and "NODE B" with IP address 10.2.1.1. Is a router required to > communicate between the two nodes? > thanks RV > No. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 07:51:00 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: recognizing newly created device on HSG80 Message-ID: Using the wizard on a W2K box talking to SWCC I created a new device Striped + raid, now what do I need to do to get the cluster nodes to recognize it? I tried sysgen> io autoconfigure but that did not work -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 17:39:07 +0200 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: recognizing newly created device on HSG80 Message-ID: <46547c3b$1@news.langstoeger.at> In article , "Tom Linden" writes: >Using the wizard on a W2K box talking to SWCC I created a new device >Striped + raid, now what do I need to do to get the cluster nodes to >recognize it? I tried sysgen> io autoconfigure but that did not >work Normally the CONFIGURE process does this for, that means they do appear automatically if properly configured. (Did you do a SET Dxx ID=xxyy as well?) -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 08:37:14 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: recognizing newly created device on HSG80 Message-ID: On Wed, 23 May 2007 08:39:07 -0700, Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER = wrote: > In article , "Tom Linden" = > writes: >> Using the wizard on a W2K box talking to SWCC I created a new device >> Striped + raid, now what do I need to do to get the cluster nodes to >> recognize it? I tried sysgen> io autoconfigure but that did not >> work > > Normally the CONFIGURE process does this for, that means they do appea= r > automatically if properly configured. (Did you do a SET Dxx ID=3Dxxyy = as = > well?) > Do you mean sysman> config set ? The device I created, should have shown up as $1$DGA11 Haven't done this before. -- = Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 18:20:41 +0200 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: recognizing newly created device on HSG80 Message-ID: <465485f9$1@news.langstoeger.at> In article , "Tom Linden" writes: >Do you mean >sysman> config set ? No. I meant the system process with process name "CONFIGURE" running the SYS$SYSTEM:CONFIGURE.EXE started by the SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP.COM >The device I created, should have shown up as >$1$DGA11 You can't make devices with only 2 digits (but I may be wrong of course) but 4 digits (normally, sys manglers mean the HSG pair with the first 2 digits of the ID number and the second 2 digits of the Dxx unit number. eg. HSG> SET D11 ID=5511 and then a $1$DGA5511 appear automatically (via the CONFIGURE process) on VMS (within seconds/minutes) and you know that this is the D11 of the HSG "55" pair then ;-) I don't know if a HGS "00" pair will give you a $1$DGA11 (as I never named my HSG pairs "00" and therefor my UNIT IDs not 0011 or 11) -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 12:10:18 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: recognizing newly created device on HSG80 Message-ID: SYSMAN> help io IO There are several IO subcommands. Select the one you want from the choices below. Additional information available: AUTOCONFIGURE CONNECT FIND_WWID LOAD REBUILD REPLACE_WWID SCSI_PATH_VERIFY SET SHOW IO Subtopic? Topic? io find IO FIND_WWID The IO FIND_WWID command probes all Fibre Channel ports, detects all previously undiscovered tapes and medium changers behind a Modular Data Router (MDR), and assigns a worldwide identifier (WWID) to each one. The command also displays a list of the devices and their assigned device names and automatically records this information in the SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$DEVICES.DAT file. Finally, the command updates relevant local and clusterwide memory structures. To configure newly attached Fibre Channel tapes, use this command prior to running the SYSMAN command IO AUTOCONFIGURE. You must have CMKRNL privilege to use the IO FIND_WWID command. For more information about Fibre Channel, see the Guidelines for OpenVMS Cluster Configurations. Format IO FIND_WWID Additional information available: Parameters Qualifiers Description Example "Tom Linden" wrote on 05/23/2007 11:37:14 AM: > On Wed, 23 May 2007 08:39:07 -0700, Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER > wrote: > > > In article , "Tom Linden" > > writes: > >> Using the wizard on a W2K box talking to SWCC I created a new device > >> Striped + raid, now what do I need to do to get the cluster nodes to > >> recognize it? I tried sysgen> io autoconfigure but that did not > >> work > > > > Normally the CONFIGURE process does this for, that means they do appear > > automatically if properly configured. (Did you do a SET Dxx ID=xxyy as > > well?) > > > Do you mean > sysman> config set ? > > The device I created, should have shown up as > $1$DGA11 > > Haven't done this before. > > -- > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 09:20:18 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: recognizing newly created device on HSG80 Message-ID: On Wed, 23 May 2007 09:20:41 -0700, Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER = wrote: > In article , "Tom Linden" = > writes: >> Do you mean >> sysman> config set ? > > No. I meant the system process with process name "CONFIGURE" running > the SYS$SYSTEM:CONFIGURE.EXE started by the SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP.COM > >> The device I created, should have shown up as >> $1$DGA11 > > You can't make devices with only 2 digits (but I may be wrong of cours= e) > but 4 digits (normally, sys manglers mean the HSG pair with the first = 2 > digits of the ID number and the second 2 digits of the Dxx unit number= . > > eg. HSG> SET D11 ID=3D5511 > > and then a $1$DGA5511 appear automatically (via the CONFIGURE process)= > on VMS (within seconds/minutes) and you know that this is the D11 of > the HSG "55" pair then ;-) > > I don't know if a HGS "00" pair will give you a $1$DGA11 (as I never > named my HSG pairs "00" and therefor my UNIT IDs not 0011 or 11) > When I created the device in the wizard I gave it the name D11, since I already had D1-D10, and sho dev dg gives $1$DGA1: (HAFNER) ShadowSetMember 0 (member of DSA1:) $1$DGA2: (HAFNER) ShadowSetMember 0 (member of DSA1:) $1$DGA3: (HAFNER) ShadowSetMember 0 (member of DSA2:) $1$DGA4: (HAFNER) ShadowSetMember 0 (member of DSA2:) $1$DGA5: (HAFNER) ShadowSetMember 0 (member of DSA11:) $1$DGA6: (HAFNER) ShadowSetMember 0 (member of DSA11:) $1$DGA7: (HAFNER) ShadowSetMember 0 (member of DSA0:) $1$DGA8: (HAFNER) ShadowSetMember 0 (member of DSA0:) $1$DGA9: (HAFNER) ShadowSetMember 0 (member of DSA12:) $1$DGA10: (HAFNER) ShadowSetMember 0 (member of DSA12:) Now I have to explain that I previously had a BA356 with the shadow set = = DSA0, 1 and 2 which I migrated to the HSG80 but retained the host-based shadowin= g. Looking at the Storage Window GUI which runs through SWCC I note that D1= = thru D10 are listed as good whilst D11 is listed as initializing, so maybe I just= = got impatient? What I would like to accomplish is to migrate DSA0 to the new D11 and go= = from ODS-2 to 5 in the process -- = Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 09:48:16 -0700 From: Peter Weaver Subject: Re: recognizing newly created device on HSG80 Message-ID: <1179938896.336353.55910@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On May 23, 11:37 am, "Tom Linden" wrote: > On Wed, 23 May 2007 08:39:07 -0700, Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER > > wrote: > > In article , "Tom Linden" > > writes: > >> Using the wizard on a W2K box talking to SWCC I created a new device > >> Striped + raid, now what do I need to do to get the cluster nodes to > >> recognize it? I tried sysgen> io autoconfigure but that did not > >> work > > > Normally the CONFIGURE process does this for, that means they do appear > > automatically if properly configured. (Did you do a SET Dxx ID=xxyy as > > well?) > > Do you mean > sysman> config set ? > > The device I created, should have shown up as > $1$DGA11 > > Haven't done this before. > > -- > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client:http://www.opera.com/mail/ As Peter mentioned, make sure you do the SET Dxx ID=xxyy (probably you want SET D11 ID=11), Windows and Unix do not care if you set the ID so the Windows tool you used might have skipped setting it. Once the ID is set then a MCR SYSMAN IO AUTOCONFIGURE /LOG should bring the device in. Peter Weaver www.weaverconsulting.ca CHARON-VAX CHARON-AXP DataStream Reflection PreciseMail HP Commercial Hardware ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 09:48:45 -0700 From: Peter Weaver Subject: Re: recognizing newly created device on HSG80 Message-ID: <1179938924.935948.83580@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On May 23, 11:37 am, "Tom Linden" wrote: > On Wed, 23 May 2007 08:39:07 -0700, Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER > > wrote: > > In article , "Tom Linden" > > writes: > >> Using the wizard on a W2K box talking to SWCC I created a new device > >> Striped + raid, now what do I need to do to get the cluster nodes to > >> recognize it? I tried sysgen> io autoconfigure but that did not > >> work > > > Normally the CONFIGURE process does this for, that means they do appear > > automatically if properly configured. (Did you do a SET Dxx ID=xxyy as > > well?) > > Do you mean > sysman> config set ? > > The device I created, should have shown up as > $1$DGA11 > > Haven't done this before. > > -- > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client:http://www.opera.com/mail/ As Peter mentioned, make sure you do the SET Dxx ID=xxyy (probably you want SET D11 ID=11), Windows and Unix do not care if you set the ID so the Windows tool you used might have skipped setting it. Once the ID is set then a MCR SYSMAN IO AUTOCONFIGURE /LOG should bring the device in. Peter Weaver www.weaverconsulting.ca CHARON-VAX CHARON-AXP DataStream Reflection PreciseMail HP Commercial Hardware ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 19:49:55 +0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Uusim=E4ki?= Subject: Re: recognizing newly created device on HSG80 Message-ID: <46547074$0$15297$9b536df3@news.fv.fi> Just some checks: Did you do HSG80> SET D11 ID=11 ! This sets the identifier needed for VMS HSG80> SET D11 ENA=node1,node2,... ! This allows the access to the disk for the cluster nodes Then you should find them by doing: $ mc sysman io auto $ show devi dg norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: > SYSMAN> help io > > IO > > There are several IO subcommands. Select the one you want from > the choices below. > > > > > Additional information available: > > AUTOCONFIGURE CONNECT FIND_WWID LOAD REBUILD > REPLACE_WWID SCSI_PATH_VERIFY SET SHOW > > IO Subtopic? > Topic? io find > > IO > > FIND_WWID > > The IO FIND_WWID command probes all Fibre Channel ports, detects > all previously undiscovered tapes and medium changers behind a > Modular Data Router (MDR), and assigns a worldwide identifier > (WWID) to each one. The command also displays a list of the > devices and their assigned device names and automatically records > this information in the SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$DEVICES.DAT file. Finally, > the command updates relevant local and clusterwide memory > structures. > > To configure newly attached Fibre Channel tapes, use this command > prior to running the SYSMAN command IO AUTOCONFIGURE. > > You must have CMKRNL privilege to use the IO FIND_WWID command. > > For more information about Fibre Channel, see the Guidelines for > OpenVMS Cluster Configurations. > > Format > > IO FIND_WWID > > > > > Additional information available: > > Parameters Qualifiers Description Example > > "Tom Linden" wrote on 05/23/2007 11:37:14 AM: > >> On Wed, 23 May 2007 08:39:07 -0700, Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER >> wrote: >> >>> In article , "Tom Linden" >>> writes: >>>> Using the wizard on a W2K box talking to SWCC I created a new device >>>> Striped + raid, now what do I need to do to get the cluster nodes to >>>> recognize it? I tried sysgen> io autoconfigure but that did not >>>> work >>> Normally the CONFIGURE process does this for, that means they do appear >>> automatically if properly configured. (Did you do a SET Dxx ID=xxyy as > >>> well?) >>> >> Do you mean >> sysman> config set ? >> >> The device I created, should have shown up as >> $1$DGA11 >> >> Haven't done this before. >> >> -- >> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 10:05:40 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: recognizing newly created device on HSG80 Message-ID: On Wed, 23 May 2007 10:03:00 -0700, Tom Linden wrote: > On Wed, 23 May 2007 09:49:55 -0700, Uusimäki > wrote: > >> >> Just some checks: >> >> Did you do >> HSG80> SET D11 ID=11 ! This sets the identifier needed for VMS >> HSG80> SET D11 ENA=node1,node2,... ! This allows the access to the >> disk for the cluster nodes > > I presume you only enter those nodes which have an HBA? Oh, and for each controller? > >> >> Then you should find them by doing: >> >> $ mc sysman io auto >> $ show devi dg >> >> >> >> >> >> norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: >>> SYSMAN> help io >>> IO >>> There are several IO subcommands. Select the one you want from >>> the choices below. >>> Additional information available: >>> AUTOCONFIGURE CONNECT FIND_WWID LOAD REBUILD >>> REPLACE_WWID SCSI_PATH_VERIFY SET SHOW >>> IO Subtopic? >>> Topic? io find >>> IO >>> FIND_WWID >>> The IO FIND_WWID command probes all Fibre Channel ports, >>> detects >>> all previously undiscovered tapes and medium changers behind a >>> Modular Data Router (MDR), and assigns a worldwide identifier >>> (WWID) to each one. The command also displays a list of the >>> devices and their assigned device names and automatically >>> records >>> this information in the SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$DEVICES.DAT file. >>> Finally, >>> the command updates relevant local and clusterwide memory >>> structures. >>> To configure newly attached Fibre Channel tapes, use this >>> command >>> prior to running the SYSMAN command IO AUTOCONFIGURE. >>> You must have CMKRNL privilege to use the IO FIND_WWID command. >>> For more information about Fibre Channel, see the Guidelines >>> for >>> OpenVMS Cluster Configurations. >>> Format >>> IO FIND_WWID >>> Additional information available: >>> Parameters Qualifiers Description Example >>> "Tom Linden" wrote on 05/23/2007 11:37:14 AM: >>> >>>> On Wed, 23 May 2007 08:39:07 -0700, Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> In article , "Tom Linden" >>>>> writes: >>>>>> Using the wizard on a W2K box talking to SWCC I created a new device >>>>>> Striped + raid, now what do I need to do to get the cluster nodes to >>>>>> recognize it? I tried sysgen> io autoconfigure but that did not >>>>>> work >>>>> Normally the CONFIGURE process does this for, that means they do >>>>> appear >>>>> automatically if properly configured. (Did you do a SET Dxx ID=xxyy >>>>> as >>> >>>>> well?) >>>>> >>>> Do you mean >>>> sysman> config set ? >>>> >>>> The device I created, should have shown up as >>>> $1$DGA11 >>>> >>>> Haven't done this before. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >>> > > > -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 20:31:40 +0300 From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Uusim=E4ki?= Subject: Re: recognizing newly created device on HSG80 Message-ID: <46547a3e$0$15317$9b536df3@news.fv.fi> Yes, exactly, just for the nodes with FC-HBA's. You have to do it only on one controller (you are running them in failover mode of course). Tom Linden wrote: > On Wed, 23 May 2007 10:03:00 -0700, Tom Linden > wrote: > >> On Wed, 23 May 2007 09:49:55 -0700, Uusimäki >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Just some checks: >>> >>> Did you do >>> HSG80> SET D11 ID=11 ! This sets the identifier needed for VMS >>> HSG80> SET D11 ENA=node1,node2,... ! This allows the access to the >>> disk for the cluster nodes >> >> I presume you only enter those nodes which have an HBA? > Oh, and for each controller? > >> >>> >>> Then you should find them by doing: >>> >>> $ mc sysman io auto >>> $ show devi dg >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: >>>> SYSMAN> help io >>>> IO >>>> There are several IO subcommands. Select the one you want from >>>> the choices below. >>>> Additional information available: >>>> AUTOCONFIGURE CONNECT FIND_WWID LOAD REBUILD >>>> REPLACE_WWID SCSI_PATH_VERIFY SET SHOW >>>> IO Subtopic? >>>> Topic? io find >>>> IO >>>> FIND_WWID >>>> The IO FIND_WWID command probes all Fibre Channel ports, >>>> detects >>>> all previously undiscovered tapes and medium changers behind a >>>> Modular Data Router (MDR), and assigns a worldwide identifier >>>> (WWID) to each one. The command also displays a list of the >>>> devices and their assigned device names and automatically >>>> records >>>> this information in the SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$DEVICES.DAT file. >>>> Finally, >>>> the command updates relevant local and clusterwide memory >>>> structures. >>>> To configure newly attached Fibre Channel tapes, use this >>>> command >>>> prior to running the SYSMAN command IO AUTOCONFIGURE. >>>> You must have CMKRNL privilege to use the IO FIND_WWID command. >>>> For more information about Fibre Channel, see the Guidelines >>>> for >>>> OpenVMS Cluster Configurations. >>>> Format >>>> IO FIND_WWID >>>> Additional information available: >>>> Parameters Qualifiers Description Example >>>> "Tom Linden" wrote on 05/23/2007 11:37:14 AM: >>>> >>>>> On Wed, 23 May 2007 08:39:07 -0700, Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> In article , "Tom Linden" >>>>>> writes: >>>>>>> Using the wizard on a W2K box talking to SWCC I created a new device >>>>>>> Striped + raid, now what do I need to do to get the cluster nodes to >>>>>>> recognize it? I tried sysgen> io autoconfigure but that did not >>>>>>> work >>>>>> Normally the CONFIGURE process does this for, that means they do >>>>>> appear >>>>>> automatically if properly configured. (Did you do a SET Dxx >>>>>> ID=xxyy as >>>> >>>>>> well?) >>>>>> >>>>> Do you mean >>>>> sysman> config set ? >>>>> >>>>> The device I created, should have shown up as >>>>> $1$DGA11 >>>>> >>>>> Haven't done this before. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >>>> >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 10:20:15 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: recognizing newly created device on HSG80 Message-ID: On Wed, 23 May 2007 10:31:40 -0700, Uusimäki wrote: > > Yes, exactly, just for the nodes with FC-HBA's. When I try that HSG80-BOT>set d11 enable=hafner Error 1240: Connection hafner not found > > You have to do it only on one controller (you are running them in > failover mode of course). Yes. > > > > > > Tom Linden wrote: >> On Wed, 23 May 2007 10:03:00 -0700, Tom Linden >> wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 23 May 2007 09:49:55 -0700, Uusimäki >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Just some checks: >>>> >>>> Did you do >>>> HSG80> SET D11 ID=11 ! This sets the identifier needed for VMS >>>> HSG80> SET D11 ENA=node1,node2,... ! This allows the access to the >>>> disk for the cluster nodes >>> >>> I presume you only enter those nodes which have an HBA? >> Oh, and for each controller? >> >>> >>>> >>>> Then you should find them by doing: >>>> >>>> $ mc sysman io auto >>>> $ show devi dg >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: >>>>> SYSMAN> help io >>>>> IO >>>>> There are several IO subcommands. Select the one you want from >>>>> the choices below. >>>>> Additional information available: >>>>> AUTOCONFIGURE CONNECT FIND_WWID LOAD REBUILD >>>>> REPLACE_WWID SCSI_PATH_VERIFY SET SHOW >>>>> IO Subtopic? >>>>> Topic? io find >>>>> IO >>>>> FIND_WWID >>>>> The IO FIND_WWID command probes all Fibre Channel ports, >>>>> detects >>>>> all previously undiscovered tapes and medium changers behind a >>>>> Modular Data Router (MDR), and assigns a worldwide identifier >>>>> (WWID) to each one. The command also displays a list of the >>>>> devices and their assigned device names and automatically >>>>> records >>>>> this information in the SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$DEVICES.DAT file. >>>>> Finally, >>>>> the command updates relevant local and clusterwide memory >>>>> structures. >>>>> To configure newly attached Fibre Channel tapes, use this >>>>> command >>>>> prior to running the SYSMAN command IO AUTOCONFIGURE. >>>>> You must have CMKRNL privilege to use the IO FIND_WWID >>>>> command. >>>>> For more information about Fibre Channel, see the Guidelines >>>>> for >>>>> OpenVMS Cluster Configurations. >>>>> Format >>>>> IO FIND_WWID >>>>> Additional information available: >>>>> Parameters Qualifiers Description Example >>>>> "Tom Linden" wrote on 05/23/2007 11:37:14 >>>>> AM: >>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, 23 May 2007 08:39:07 -0700, Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> In article , "Tom Linden" >>>>>>> writes: >>>>>>>> Using the wizard on a W2K box talking to SWCC I created a new >>>>>>>> device >>>>>>>> Striped + raid, now what do I need to do to get the cluster nodes >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> recognize it? I tried sysgen> io autoconfigure but that did not >>>>>>>> work >>>>>>> Normally the CONFIGURE process does this for, that means they do >>>>>>> appear >>>>>>> automatically if properly configured. (Did you do a SET Dxx >>>>>>> ID=xxyy as >>>>> >>>>>>> well?) >>>>>>> >>>>>> Do you mean >>>>>> sysman> config set ? >>>>>> >>>>>> The device I created, should have shown up as >>>>>> $1$DGA11 >>>>>> >>>>>> Haven't done this before. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: >>>>>> http://www.opera.com/mail/ >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >> -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 07:30:01 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: Rename Volume Labels Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > Cross Michael C Mr CIV USAF 53 CSS/SCN wrote: > >> How easy is it to rename volume labels? What is the command syntax to >> do it? > > > Make sure all files on that disk are closed. Aka SHOW DEV/FILES doesn't > show any user files opened or installed, do this for every node in the > cluster. > > $DISMOUNT/CLUSTER DKA200: > $MOUNT DKA200: theoldlabel $temp_disk > $SET VOLUME DKA200:/LABEL=mynewlabel > $DISMOUNT DKA200: > $MOUNT/CLUSTER/SYSTEM DKA200: mynewlabel $mylogical > > > This is necessary because many logicals and locks are based on the > volume label at the time the disk is mounted. If you do the SET VOLUME > on a running disk, the old logical remain defined. > > When you mount the disk privately, you can change the label without > fearing system-wide conflicts. > > (eg: if you want to swap labels from disk1 to disk2 and vice versa, you > can mount disk1 privately and give it disk2's label while disk2 is still > mounted/system/cluster. Then once you dismount disk2, you can mount > disk1 systemwide. This is only necessary if you want to change a 2nd disk's label to be the original label of the 1st disk. (Swapping labels as JF describes.) If you *don't* intend to re-use the original label on another disk, you can just "$ set volume/label" on it without any dismounting or mounting. The system will continue to use the existing locks (and resource names) based on the original label, but nothing will break. In any case, also remember to update your system startup files to use the new label in the "$ mount" commands. HTH -- John Santos Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539 ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 07:41:48 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Rename Volume Labels Message-ID: In article <138449ECC94125418289A81B26BA97B858C6B4@VFEGMLEG01.Enterprise.afmc.ds.af.mil>, "Cross Michael C Mr CIV USAF 53 CSS/SCN" writes: > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Please change your broswer settings so as not to post here in MIME or HTML. > > How easy is it to rename volume labels? What is the command syntax to > do it? > $ help set volume /label ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 07:43:35 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Rename Volume Labels Message-ID: In article <2860d$4653360c$cef8887a$1536@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: > > > This is necessary because many logicals and locks are based on the > volume label at the time the disk is mounted. If you do the SET VOLUME > on a running disk, the old logical remain defined. > I have never had a problem with the locks in any cluster when doing this "live". And I habitually define my own logical names so that no one ends up using the DISK$label-goes-here logical that MOUNT defines. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 15:39:09 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: Rename Volume Labels Message-ID: In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article <2860d$4653360c$cef8887a$1536@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei > writes: > > > > > > This is necessary because many logicals and locks are based on the > > volume label at the time the disk is mounted. If you do the SET VOLUME > > on a running disk, the old logical remain defined. > > > > I have never had a problem with the locks in any cluster when doing > this "live". And I habitually define my own logical names so that > no one ends up using the DISK$label-goes-here logical that MOUNT > defines. But presumably _your_ logical names do reference DISK$label-goes-here? -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 11:54:30 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Rename Volume Labels Message-ID: In article , "P. Sture" writes: > > But presumably _your_ logical names do reference DISK$label-goes-here? > No. When you put a logical name at the end of the MONUT command then the logical name translates to the device name. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 19:22:36 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: Rename Volume Labels Message-ID: In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article , "P. Sture" > writes: > > > > But presumably _your_ logical names do reference DISK$label-goes-here? > > > > No. When you put a logical name at the end of the MONUT command then > the logical name translates to the device name. Understood. -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 07:39:55 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Replacing LAT terminal servers Message-ID: In article , Chris Sharman writes: > > What solution are people using these days? > My DECSERVER 300 refuses to die. It has outlasted several later models. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 13:50:38 +0100 From: Chris Sharman Subject: Re: Replacing LAT terminal servers Message-ID: John E. Malmberg wrote: >> We've got a bunch of terminal servers (various brands) running LAT, >> mainly for a shop floor application running some 20-50 barcode >> scanners (seasonal variation). >> >> Maintenance & configuration is becoming a pain. To clarify - the scanners are serial. > Both the Dec Terminal Servers and the Lantronix can be managed through > Terminal Server Manager. I submitted updated scripts to the freeware > CDs back about the year 2000. The terminal servers are all ancient, and break down quite often. They're mostly Emulex, with a few Lantronix, and one or two Decservers. A colleague used to reinstate all the port setup - not sure how he did it - he's no longer with us. > This include scripts that can be used to regularly back up the current > configurations of all DecServers. I saw that TSM had become freeware - it's possibly the best option, but I never found the documentation, so never got into it. I'm now just doing odd consultancy, and there's not much fondness here for VMS and associated technologies. One proposal is to plug each scanner into a pc!! That won't help the VMS app talk to them all though. The solution needs to be easy for Windows first line support people to manage. I'll have another look around for TSM etc - does it do Emulex (P4000?) Thanks Chris > It is real easy to adapt those DCL scripts for models that they do not > understand. > >> What solution are people using these days? >> >> Our app uses the LAT specific calls as documented in the I/O Ref >> manual to initiate dialogue with each scanner in turn. >> >> I'm guessing it wouldn't be too hard to change to telnet instead, or >> similar? >> >> What would be the preferred hardware and software to multiplex 50 >> scanners to a vms application? > > As I have posted a few times before, the major difference is that with > LAT, when you get a network disconnection, the application will see a > DATA-SET Hangup. > > With a TCP/IP raw socket connected by reverse Telnet, there is no > notification. And were I was, we found that we had to delete the > reverse Telnet port after a network event, and then recreate it before > we could communicate with the remote device. > > I have seen scanners with all sorts of interfaces, including raw > sockets, and wireless ethernet. Some can be programmed to actually do a > telnet login. > > -John > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 15:13:00 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Replacing LAT terminal servers Message-ID: <0SY4i.489$ZA.647@newsb.telia.net> Chris Sharman wrote: > A colleague used to reinstate all the port setup - not sure how he did > it - he's no longer with us. Probably just runed som DCL scripts/jobs... > The solution needs to be easy for Windows first line support people to > manage. What is "manage" in this case ? Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 09:15:41 -0700 From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: Replacing LAT terminal servers Message-ID: <1179936941.566696.77020@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On May 22, 10:08 pm, "John E. Malmberg" wrote: > Chris Sharman wrote: > > [I'm back - consulting for a bit] > > > We've got a bunch of terminal servers (various brands) running LAT, > > mainly for a shop floor application running some 20-50 barcode scanners > > (seasonal variation). > > > Maintenance & configuration is becoming a pain. > > Both the Dec Terminal Servers and the Lantronix can be managed through > Terminal Server Manager. I submitted updated scripts to the freeware > CDs back about the year 2000. > > This include scripts that can be used to regularly back up the current > configurations of all DecServers. > > It is real easy to adapt those DCL scripts for models that they do not > understand. > > > What solution are people using these days? > > > Our app uses the LAT specific calls as documented in the I/O Ref manual > > to initiate dialogue with each scanner in turn. > > > I'm guessing it wouldn't be too hard to change to telnet instead, or > > similar? > > > What would be the preferred hardware and software to multiplex 50 > > scanners to a vms application? > > As I have posted a few times before, the major difference is that with > LAT, when you get a network disconnection, the application will see a > DATA-SET Hangup. > > With a TCP/IP raw socket connected by reverse Telnet, there is no > notification. And were I was, we found that we had to delete the > reverse Telnet port after a network event, and then recreate it before > we could communicate with the remote device. > > I have seen scanners with all sorts of interfaces, including raw > sockets, and wireless ethernet. Some can be programmed to actually do a > telnet login. > > -John > wb8...@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Only Just to back up what John said. We have several customers who require direct non-queued printing at remote sites. They used to use leased lines and MUXservers but recently switched to using VPN tunnels over their internet connections. LAT went away as a result. We put in DECserver 90M+ servers using reverse telnet (TNA) ports; it does work, at least most of the time. Every time their internet link goes down, the VPN tunnels hiccup, or a crow flies overhead and poops on a car in the parking lot, the TNA port loses its connection to the DS90 serial port and has to be deleted and rebuilt. We _never_ had anything close to the level of trouble when using LAT connections. We now have dedicated command procedures available to do the rebuilds under a captive suitably privileged account so the users can do it as soon as they need to. Rich ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 11:53:25 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Replacing LAT terminal servers Message-ID: In article <0SY4i.489$ZA.647@newsb.telia.net>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: > > What is "manage" in this case ? As the first line Windows based support group the only answer must be ctrl-alt-del. ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 03:15:32 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: Still want: LK461 keyboard Message-ID: <1179915332.339704.59950@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On 22 May, 12:32, Marcin 'Rambo' Roguski wrote: > On Sat, 19 May 2007 20:03:43 -0400 > "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" > wrote: > > > I have some for $89 > > Thanks, but I guess I haven't expected THAT much. > What about PowerStorms (3D or 4D)? anything below 50 bucks? The AB552A has a UK list price of =A365. I'm sure that a broker could provide an LK46x for a more reasonable price. The last one I got from a broker in the UK was about =A320. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 07:38:08 -0400 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: Still want: LK461 keyboard Message-ID: wrote in message news:1179915332.339704.59950@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... On 22 May, 12:32, Marcin 'Rambo' Roguski wrote: The AB552A has a UK list price of £65. I'm sure that a broker could provide an LK46x for a more reasonable price. The last one I got from a broker in the UK was about £20. Isn't that ~$130 US? ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 12:16:40 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Still want: LK461 keyboard Message-ID: <5bipl7F2spdsoU1@mid.individual.net> In article , "FredK" writes: > > wrote in message > news:1179915332.339704.59950@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... > On 22 May, 12:32, Marcin 'Rambo' Roguski wrote: > > The AB552A has a UK list price of £65. I'm sure that a broker could > provide an LK46x for a more reasonable price. The last one I got from > a broker in the UK was about £20. > > > Isn't that ~$130 US? That would be pretty close!!! bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 06:03:51 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: Still want: LK461 keyboard Message-ID: <1179925430.547282.89240@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> On 23 May, 12:38, "FredK" wrote: > wrote in message > > news:1179915332.339704.59950@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... > On 22 May, 12:32, Marcin 'Rambo' Roguski wrote: > > The AB552A has a UK list price of =A365. I'm sure that a broker could > provide an LK46x for a more reasonable price. The last one I got from > a broker in the UK was about =A320. > > Isn't that ~$130 US? Yup. Didn't say it made sense, it's just the UK list price. ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 06:04:04 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: Still want: LK461 keyboard Message-ID: <1179925444.048493.199860@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On 23 May, 12:38, "FredK" wrote: > wrote in message > > news:1179915332.339704.59950@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... > On 22 May, 12:32, Marcin 'Rambo' Roguski wrote: > > The AB552A has a UK list price of =A365. I'm sure that a broker could > provide an LK46x for a more reasonable price. The last one I got from > a broker in the UK was about =A320. > > Isn't that ~$130 US? Yup. Didn't say it made sense, it's just the UK list price. ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 06:04:17 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: Still want: LK461 keyboard Message-ID: <1179925457.099027.65480@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On 23 May, 12:38, "FredK" wrote: > wrote in message > > news:1179915332.339704.59950@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... > On 22 May, 12:32, Marcin 'Rambo' Roguski wrote: > > The AB552A has a UK list price of =A365. I'm sure that a broker could > provide an LK46x for a more reasonable price. The last one I got from > a broker in the UK was about =A320. > > Isn't that ~$130 US? Yup. Didn't say it made sense, it's just the UK list price. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 15:01:24 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: Still want: LK461 keyboard Message-ID: In article <5bipl7F2spdsoU1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article , > "FredK" writes: > > > > wrote in message > > news:1179915332.339704.59950@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... > > On 22 May, 12:32, Marcin 'Rambo' Roguski wrote: > > > > The AB552A has a UK list price of £65. I'm sure that a broker could > > provide an LK46x for a more reasonable price. The last one I got from > > a broker in the UK was about £20. > > > > > > Isn't that ~$130 US? > > That would be pretty close!!! > That begs the question: What is the list price in the US? Even with shipping, that route could be cheaper. -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 08:02:26 +0200 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: TCPIP glitch wih aliases Message-ID: <4653f512@news.langstoeger.at> In article , JF Mezei writes: >I needed to move the cluster alias IP from an alpha to a vax. > >I looked at the ifconfig command and issued >ifconfig we0 10.0.0.50 down This disables the whole interface, as you noted. >Also, is there a way to just disable the alias entry so it jumps to >another node ? Or must one delete it and recreate it from scratch ? I think the latter. >(I think what I should have done yesterday was: >$ ifconfig WE0 -alias 10.0.0.50 Have you seen "$ ifconfig WE0 -alias 10.0.0.50 abort" already? >$ ifconfig we0 alias 10.0.0.50 netmask 255.255.0.0 > >But this requires I know the exact parameters to feed to recreate that >interface. And you also need to decide on which interface (if you have more than one) you will place your alias address... >I would rather have those parameters stored in one single place as extra >commands to execure during TCPIP startup and not have to worry about >recreating them whenever I wish to move the alias to another node. How about SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$SYSTARTUP.COM (with some IFs perhaps) -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 12:58:39 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: TCPIP programming (sockaddr_in question) Message-ID: <00A680A1.053C0D6A@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , "Richard Maher" writes: > > > > wrote in message >news:00A67DA8.2B0F9C71@SendSpamHere.ORG... >> In article , "John Gemignani, >Jr." writes: >> > >> > >> > >> > wrote in message >> >news:00A67CAA.A1C5C707@SendSpamHere.ORG... >> >> In article , "Richard Maher" >> >> writes: >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>Hi Brian, >> >>> >> >>>I'll re-read the whole thread again tonight but do these changes yeild >the >> >>>result you're after? >> >>> >> >>>PEER: .WORD 16,0 >> >>>..ADDRESS P_ADR >> >>>..ADDRESS P_LEN >> >>>..LONG 0 >> >>> >> >>>P_LEN: .LONG 0 >> >>>P_ADR: >> >>>addr_dom: .word 0 >> >>>port_num: .word 0 >> >>>host_adr: .byte 0[4] >> >>> .blkb 8 >> > >> > This area is too small. The SIN4 is 16 bytes and the SIN6 is much >> >larger, like 24-32. >> > There should be symbol definitions for these in $INETDEF. In C, I >would >> >often code >> > up the sockaddr as a union of a sin4 and sin6. It is important to >note >> >that you can get >> > an IPv4 encapsulated address using the IPv6 interfaces (there are C >> >macros that check >> > certain IPv6 address fields for the appropriate FF's that indicate >> >such). >> >> Please quote properly. That which you have attributed to me I did not >post. >> >> I originally set the size of the structure to 8 longwords. 4*8 is, or at >> least was, 32 whan I went to school. SIN6$K_LENGTH is 28 so there's AMPLE >> space to store a SIN$, SIN44$ or SIN6$ sockaddr_in definition. >> >> Using the P3 parameter in the $QIO returns the size of data filled in the >> sockaddr_in. The first byte can also be used to determine the type of the >> sockaddr_in data returned. >> -- >> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker >VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >> >> "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > >Hi Brian, John > >OK as I've re-read the thread and didn't twig the first time that you were >using IPV6 (even though you told us :-) Well, I did't know I was using IPv6. All of the machines on my network sit hehind a router on a private net (192.168.x.x) and are NATted from the external IP addys. Where in TCPIP services to I see IPv6 addresses and or how to I enable/disable IPv6? -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 21:45:03 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: TCPIP programming (sockaddr_in question) Message-ID: What software created the BG device for which you are now doing a io$_sensemode? Cheers Richard Maher wrote in message news:00A680A1.053C0D6A@SendSpamHere.ORG... > In article , "Richard Maher" writes: > > > > > > > > wrote in message > >news:00A67DA8.2B0F9C71@SendSpamHere.ORG... > >> In article , "John Gemignani, > >Jr." writes: > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > wrote in message > >> >news:00A67CAA.A1C5C707@SendSpamHere.ORG... > >> >> In article , "Richard Maher" > >> >> writes: > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>>Hi Brian, > >> >>> > >> >>>I'll re-read the whole thread again tonight but do these changes yeild > >the > >> >>>result you're after? > >> >>> > >> >>>PEER: .WORD 16,0 > >> >>>..ADDRESS P_ADR > >> >>>..ADDRESS P_LEN > >> >>>..LONG 0 > >> >>> > >> >>>P_LEN: .LONG 0 > >> >>>P_ADR: > >> >>>addr_dom: .word 0 > >> >>>port_num: .word 0 > >> >>>host_adr: .byte 0[4] > >> >>> .blkb 8 > >> > > >> > This area is too small. The SIN4 is 16 bytes and the SIN6 is much > >> >larger, like 24-32. > >> > There should be symbol definitions for these in $INETDEF. In C, I > >would > >> >often code > >> > up the sockaddr as a union of a sin4 and sin6. It is important to > >note > >> >that you can get > >> > an IPv4 encapsulated address using the IPv6 interfaces (there are C > >> >macros that check > >> > certain IPv6 address fields for the appropriate FF's that indicate > >> >such). > >> > >> Please quote properly. That which you have attributed to me I did not > >post. > >> > >> I originally set the size of the structure to 8 longwords. 4*8 is, or at > >> least was, 32 whan I went to school. SIN6$K_LENGTH is 28 so there's AMPLE > >> space to store a SIN$, SIN44$ or SIN6$ sockaddr_in definition. > >> > >> Using the P3 parameter in the $QIO returns the size of data filled in the > >> sockaddr_in. The first byte can also be used to determine the type of the > >> sockaddr_in data returned. > >> -- > >> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker > >VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > >> > >> "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > > > >Hi Brian, John > > > >OK as I've re-read the thread and didn't twig the first time that you were > >using IPV6 (even though you told us :-) > > Well, I did't know I was using IPv6. All of the machines on my network > sit hehind a router on a private net (192.168.x.x) and are NATted from > the external IP addys. Where in TCPIP services to I see IPv6 addresses > and or how to I enable/disable IPv6? > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 15:05:20 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: TCPIP programming (sockaddr_in question) Message-ID: <00A680B2.B7839670@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , "Richard Maher" writes: > > >What software created the BG device for which you are now doing a >io$_sensemode? > >Cheers Richard Maher Web browsers, remote ssh, remote sftp and ftp, mail servers, etc. Like I said before, I'm trying to "programmatically" perform the equivalent of TCPIP SHOW DEVICE bgxxxx/FULL -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 08:24:25 -0700 From: Rich Jordan Subject: TCPIP Services SMTP, RBLs blocking all inbound email Message-ID: <1179933865.139959.57830@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> I've had three sites suddenly stop receiving email since Monday; they are Alphas using the TCPIP Services SMTP service. All have RBL filtering enabled, all had sbl-xbl.spamhaus.org, and this most recent one also had combined.njabl.org. TCPIP version V5.1 eco 5 and V5.3 eco 4 were impacted, as well as V5.4 eco 5 on the most recent site. All three sites have different ISPs and are using different ISP provided DNS servers. Every inbound connection gets matched by the RBL list and blocked, but when I visit the RBL sites and check our own and other valid IPs they are not present on either list, so should not be blacklisted (I've also checked a couple of aggregations sites that check against multiple RBLs, still no hits). Stopping and restarting the SMTP service did not make a difference. When I removed Spamhaus from the config file, the one site started accepting mail again (albeit with more spam). The most recent one required removing the NJABL list as well, disabling any RBL lookups, before it would accept mail from anyone. I can't restart the TCPIP stack as a whole from here; I can schedule a reboot if needed. Anyone experienced this before? Its like the RBL lookup functionality has deadlocked itself. I wrote to Spamhaus (and did some google searches for recent spamhaus news) in case the problem was at their end but haven't found (or received) anything back. So far only the three VMS sites have been affected; two PC mail servers (one using spamhaus) have not shown the same problems. Thanks for any info. ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 09:21:30 -0700 From: Ken Robinson Subject: Re: UUEN/DECODE? Message-ID: <1179937290.000515.312560@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On May 23, 10:50 am, p...@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) wrote: > I've a UUENCODEd File (a Textfile, encoded on a current VMS system, and sent > via Mail to me) here which when decoded expands to an empty file. What type of machine/OS is receiving the email? Ken ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 09:21:51 -0700 From: Ken Robinson Subject: Re: UUEN/DECODE? Message-ID: <1179937311.886302.143670@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On May 23, 10:50 am, p...@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) wrote: > I've a UUENCODEd File (a Textfile, encoded on a current VMS system, and sent > via Mail to me) here which when decoded expands to an empty file. What type of machine/OS is receiving the email? Ken ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 18:31:21 +0200 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: UUEN/DECODE? Message-ID: <46548879@news.langstoeger.at> In article <1179937290.000515.312560@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, Ken Robinson writes: >On May 23, 10:50 am, p...@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) wrote: >> I've a UUENCODEd File (a Textfile, encoded on a current VMS system, and sent >> via Mail to me) here which when decoded expands to an empty file. > >What type of machine/OS is receiving the email? "My machine" is of course a VMS system (OpenVMS Alpha V8.3) -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 13:12:50 GMT From: "gl@decadence.it" Subject: VAXstation 4k motherboard with TurboChannel Adapter available Message-ID: <46543dd2$0$4784$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it> Hello everyone There's a motherboard for VAXstation 4000/m?? available on ebay with auction name "Digital AACC-2 14593-5598 Main Board" It has a full load of memory cards and a Turbo Channel Adapter (could see on the photos). I would buy it, but shipping to Europe is too expensive for hobbyist purposes. Maybe someone in the USA would find it interesting to play with. Bye gl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 06:09:55 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: VAXstation 4k motherboard with TurboChannel Adapter available Message-ID: On Wed, 23 May 2007 06:12:50 -0700, gl@decadence.it wrote: > Hello everyone > > There's a motherboard for VAXstation 4000/m?? available on ebay with > auction name "Digital AACC-2 14593-5598 Main Board" > It has a full load of memory cards and a Turbo Channel Adapter (could see > on the photos). > I would buy it, but shipping to Europe is too expensive for hobbyist > purposes. > Maybe someone in the USA would find it interesting to play with. Whether it works or not and at what frequency isn't known. Also there is no graphics board, but if you can get it for a few bucks it might be worth the gamble. > > Bye > gl -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 07:04:53 -0700 From: Galen Subject: What happened to the ITRC forum? Message-ID: <1179929093.253576.246260@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com> I just looked at the ITRC OpenVMS forum and saw ONLY the handful of subjects shown below. Did somebody have a drive failure?? The subjects were these: Test Subject Uaaxuooacxfoonw networking userid_itrc 3 04/30/07 04/30/07 Test Subject Taijbdmjnbrzuuy networking Arvindd 0 04/30/07 04/30/07 Test Subject Zupwzoxtefujyji networking Arvindd 0 04/30/07 04/30/07 Test Subject Trywqujhaisteyv networking Arvindd 0 04/30/07 04/30/07 Test Subject Mfhykalxlrwyfcy networking Arvindd 0 04/30/07 04/30/07 Test Subject Cdwmsvtiwqmufpo networking Arvindd 0 04/25/07 04/25/07 Test Subject Cuezqmaqzrgtrvn networking Arvindd 0 04/25/07 04/25/07 Test Subject Bvluebwpoiokvsc networking Arvindd 0 04/25/07 04/25/07 Test Subject Ohigojvioddbvnv networking Arvindd 0 04/25/07 04/25/07 Test Subject Yrgiyuosatdyogs networking Arvindd 0 04/25/07 04/25/07 Test Subject Xnfpjbbdgfpkgqg networking Arvindd 0 04/25/07 04/25/07 Test Subject Hxlipnlvvprneuh networking Arvindd 0 04/25/07 04/25/07 Job Entries system management Lisa Morris 2 03/23/07 03/25/07 Multi-Head ATI Mach64 on PWS 600au hardware Heath Stephens 0 03/23/07 03/23/07 VAX/VMS V7.3, RDB V7.0-81 and app using SYS$HIBER general Veli K=F6rkk=F6 Expert in this area 11 07/20/05 11/24/06 ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 08:14:28 -0700 From: Galen Subject: Re: What happened to the ITRC forum? Message-ID: <1179933268.846073.272180@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> Looks like it's back to normal now, with all the topics restored. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 01:08:40 -0500 From: Dan Foster Subject: Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Message-ID: In article <66dfp8Idh60R@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Larry Kilgallen wrote: >> >> What kind basis do they have for making this claim that it's the first >> one to do it in hardware? Haven't there been a number of >> microprocessors that did this long ago? > > Perhaps they were not _UNIX_ microprocessors, like this one is :-) That's true; but the Motorola 68040 had built-in FP support in hardware some 17 years ago. That is, for the regular version of the '040 and not the LC variant which disabled the FPU and was sold as a lower cost alternative. The '040 was used for several UNIX OSes -- Apple's A/UX, NeXT's NeXTstep (a BSD derivative), Linux, NetBSD, undoubtedly amongst others. Arguably, you could also include some of the PDP and VAX processors as they also ran early BSD UNIX and supported hardware FP. Of course, the MicroVAX processors left out hardware FP processing, so there's some exceptions. Had IBM marketing been more accurate, they'd have perhaps had said: "...the first processor made in the last decade that runs a commercial UNIX OS to support floating point in hardware." But certainly not the first ever. I don't think marketing folks can normally be bothered with accuracy. :-) -Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 10:21:56 +0200 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Message-ID: Tom Linden schrieb: > On Tue, 22 May 2007 16:23:13 -0700, Michael Kraemer > wrote: > >> Tom Linden schrieb: >> >>> Unfortunately they already have their own, with OO extensions and >>> builtin XML parser. >> >> >> but apparently it has a very low profile, >> last time I checked it did not show up on their AIX >> pages. They have a separate PL/I page where one can >> learn that there's also PL/I for AIX, but one has to dig for it. >> And, BTW, the respective link on the Kednos page is invalid, >> thanks to IBM reshuffling their web pages every now and then. > > > Which link was thar? I wil fix that. Last time I checked I think it was http://www-306.ibm.com/software/awdtools/pli/ but this one is correct by now. But another one seems to be incorrect: http://www-306.ibm.com/software/awdtools/pli/library.htm (probably it's enough to drop the htm extension) >> > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 10:31:56 +0200 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Message-ID: Dan Foster schrieb: > > That's true; but the Motorola 68040 had built-in FP support in hardware > some 17 years ago. That is, for the regular version of the '040 and not > the LC variant which disabled the FPU and was sold as a lower cost > alternative. > > The '040 was used for several UNIX OSes -- Apple's A/UX, NeXT's NeXTstep > (a BSD derivative), Linux, NetBSD, undoubtedly amongst others. not to forget the Amiga :-) It even uses the 68040's successor, the 68060. The point isn't *binary* FP support in hardware, that's nothing to brag about, the x86 had it with the x87 coprocessors (and later the 486) from the early 80s onwards. Same goes for the Motorola chips 68881/2 and 68040/060. RISC chips had also FP builtin. Decimal (not binary !) instructions were also in the 68k set. What's new here is *decimal* FP *floating point*. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 03:36:33 -0500 From: Dan Foster Subject: Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Message-ID: In article , Michael Kraemer wrote: > Dan Foster schrieb: >> >> That's true; but the Motorola 68040 had built-in FP support in hardware >> some 17 years ago. That is, for the regular version of the '040 and not >> the LC variant which disabled the FPU and was sold as a lower cost >> alternative. >> >> The '040 was used for several UNIX OSes -- Apple's A/UX, NeXT's NeXTstep >> (a BSD derivative), Linux, NetBSD, undoubtedly amongst others. > > not to forget the Amiga :-) It even uses the 68040's successor, the 68060. Good machine for its class, good hardware. :) (I never owned one but once went to a major Amiga convention in Washington, D.C. in 1989 or 1990 and was very impressed with the hardware and software design. Now I have the UAE Amiga emulator with licensed software.) > The point isn't *binary* FP support in hardware, that's nothing to > brag about, the x86 had it with the x87 coprocessors (and later the > 486) from the early 80s onwards. Same goes for the Motorola chips > 68881/2 and 68040/060. RISC chips had also FP builtin. Decimal (not > binary !) instructions were also in the 68k set. What's new here is > *decimal* FP *floating point*. Ahhhh! I hadn't noticed that subtle difference. Thanks. -Dan ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 03:19:04 -0700 From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Message-ID: <1179915544.792573.308800@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On May 23, 12:53 am, "Main, Kerry" wrote: [...snip...] > > VAX 11780/11785/11750 ..all had FP HW options .. > > Kerry Main > 100% correct but VAX was CISC and POWER6 (and Alpha etc.) are RISC. 15 years ago the RISC industry mantra was "keep instructions simple". Perhaps this was necessary so engineers could concentrate on other stuff like "register renaming" and "speculative execution". Isn't it interesting that as soon as industry stops developing RISC technology (they've decided to stop developing CPU technology in favor of doing the multi-core thing), that CISC stuff is starting to creep back into RISC? Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 03:36:47 -0700 From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Message-ID: <1179916607.383555.138550@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On May 23, 12:47 am, Bill Todd wrote: [...snip...] > > My recollection is that CIS involved decimal *integer* instructions > (supposedly useful for COBOL), not decimal *FP* instructions (as POWER6 > supports). For that matter, good old x86 has supported a few decimal > *integer* instructions since Day 1. > > My guess is that decimal FP may be useful in providing decimal-oriented > rounding behavior - certainly significant for financial calculations, > and perhaps elsewhere. It's a bit difficult for me to imagine that a > sufficient market for high-speed decimal FP exists to justify its cost > in silicon, but given how on-target IBM has been with the rest of its > POWER designs I'm not about to disparage it. > > - bill Bill I have always envied your memory. When I posted my CIS remark last night I turned around (to scan my book case) and couldn't see a single PDP manual. This morning I turned around and saw a hardcover edition of "Computer Engineering: A DEC View of Hardware Systems Design" by "C. Gordon Moore". Here is the official quote from page 384: 1) Data-types representing character sets, character strings, packed decimal strings, and zoned decimal stings. 2) Strings of variable length up to 65k characters. 3) Instructions for processing character strings in each data-type (move, add, subtract, multiply, divide) 4) Instructions for converting among binary integers, packed decimals strings, and zoned decimal strings. 5) Instructions to move the descriptors for variable length strings. ### My recollection was that CIS was best utilized by COBOL. I also seem to remember seeing BCD in there somewhere (but maybe I'm confusing things with another platform?) BTW, this book just reminded me of something else called EIS (extended instruction set) Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 07:44:45 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Message-ID: <63DjHZ$2Pqi0@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <1179844418.137855.83260@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, R Boyd writes: > On May 21, 10:16 pm, Neil Rieck wrote: >> World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway >> > >> >> The POWER6 supposedly is the first UNIX microprocessor able to >> calculate decimal floating-point arithmetic in hardware. Until now, >> calculations involving decimal numbers with floating decimal points >> were done using software. The built-in decimal floating-point >> capability gives advantage to enterprises running complex tax, >> financial, and ERP programs, among others. > > What kind basis do they have for making this claim that it's the first > one to do it in hardware? Haven't there been a number of > microprocessors that did this long ago? Anybody who says "UNIX microprocessor" doesn't know jack about what they are saying. ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 07:46:54 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Message-ID: In article <1179889402.226703.125720@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, Neil Rieck writes: > Now along comes IBM with POWER6 and they are starting to sneak some > cool CISC stuff back into RISC. What's next? INSQUE and REMQUE ? I don't know about POWER, but it's ancestor RISC 6000 had more instructions than any other RISC instruction set in a general purpose RISC processor. (RISC means the instructions are simple, not necessarily the set). ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 12:51:06 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Message-ID: <5birlpF2spdsoU4@mid.individual.net> In article , Dan Foster writes: > In article <66dfp8Idh60R@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Larry Kilgallen wrote: >>> >>> What kind basis do they have for making this claim that it's the first >>> one to do it in hardware? Haven't there been a number of >>> microprocessors that did this long ago? >> >> Perhaps they were not _UNIX_ microprocessors, like this one is :-) > > That's true; but the Motorola 68040 had built-in FP support in hardware > some 17 years ago. That is, for the regular version of the '040 and not > the LC variant which disabled the FPU and was sold as a lower cost > alternative. > > The '040 was used for several UNIX OSes -- Apple's A/UX, NeXT's NeXTstep > (a BSD derivative), Linux, NetBSD, undoubtedly amongst others. > > Arguably, you could also include some of the PDP and VAX processors as > they also ran early BSD UNIX and supported hardware FP. Of course, the > MicroVAX processors left out hardware FP processing, so there's some > exceptions. > > Had IBM marketing been more accurate, they'd have perhaps had said: > "...the first processor made in the last decade that runs a commercial > UNIX OS to support floating point in hardware." > > But certainly not the first ever. > > I don't think marketing folks can normally be bothered with accuracy. :-) > I think people here have missed the main point. They are not claiming to be the first with Floating Point, they are claiming Decimal Floating Point. That would be Floating Point without the rounding errors. Some- thing of great value to banking and financial operations, which was what the original claim was. Many processors (IBM and I am pretty sure the VAX just to mention two) before this have had decimal math capabilities, but only fixed point. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 05:54:57 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Message-ID: On Wed, 23 May 2007 03:36:47 -0700, Neil Rieck wrote: > On May 23, 12:47 am, Bill Todd wrote: > [...snip...] >> >> My recollection is that CIS involved decimal *integer* instructions >> (supposedly useful for COBOL), not decimal *FP* instructions (as POWER6 >> supports). For that matter, good old x86 has supported a few decimal >> *integer* instructions since Day 1. >> >> My guess is that decimal FP may be useful in providing decimal-oriented >> rounding behavior - certainly significant for financial calculations, >> and perhaps elsewhere. It's a bit difficult for me to imagine that a >> sufficient market for high-speed decimal FP exists to justify its cost >> in silicon, but given how on-target IBM has been with the rest of its >> POWER designs I'm not about to disparage it. >> >> - bill > > Bill I have always envied your memory. When I posted my CIS remark > last night I turned around (to scan my book case) and couldn't see a > single PDP manual. This morning I turned around and saw a hardcover > edition of "Computer Engineering: A DEC View of Hardware Systems > Design" by "C. Gordon Moore". Here is the official quote from page > 384: > > 1) Data-types representing character sets, character strings, packed > decimal strings, and zoned decimal stings. > > 2) Strings of variable length up to 65k characters. > > 3) Instructions for processing character strings in each data-type > (move, add, subtract, multiply, divide) > > 4) Instructions for converting among binary integers, packed decimals > strings, and zoned decimal strings. > > 5) Instructions to move the descriptors for variable length strings. > > ### > > My recollection was that CIS was best utilized by COBOL. I also seem > to remember seeing BCD in there somewhere (but maybe I'm confusing > things with another platform?) Actually, these are all PL/I data types, and it really comes from 360 architecture which was designed witgh PL/I in mind. > > BTW, this book just reminded me of something else called EIS (extended > instruction set) > > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, > Ontario, Canada. > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ > > -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 13:16:53 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Message-ID: <5bit64F2t4ae1U1@mid.individual.net> In article , "Main, Kerry" writes: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu] On >> Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon >> Sent: May 22, 2007 3:22 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> Subject: Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway >>=20 >> In article <1179844418.137855.83260@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, >> R Boyd writes: >> > On May 21, 10:16 pm, Neil Rieck wrote: >> >> World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> The POWER6 supposedly is the first UNIX microprocessor able to >> >> calculate decimal floating-point arithmetic in hardware. Until now, >> >> calculations involving decimal numbers with floating decimal points >> >> were done using software. The built-in decimal floating-point >> >> capability gives advantage to enterprises running complex tax, >> >> financial, and ERP programs, among others. >> > >> > What kind basis do they have for making this claim that it's the >> first >> > one to do it in hardware? Haven't there been a number of >> > microprocessors that did this long ago? >>=20 >> Feel free to dispute the claim. What processor did you have in mind? >> I can't think of any that did this in the past 30 or so years. Use >> decimal numbers, yes, but not floating point. >>=20 >> bill >>=20 > > VAX 11780/11785/11750 ..all had FP HW options ..=20 > >:-) Decimal Floating Point? I think not........ bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 11:55:50 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Message-ID: In article , "Tom Linden" writes: > > Actually, these are all PL/I data types, and it really comes from 360 > architecture which was designed witgh PL/I in mind. > PL/I is that old? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 09:43:22 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Message-ID: On Wed, 23 May 2007 09:55:50 -0700, Bob Koehler wrote: > In article , "Tom Linden" > writes: >> >> Actually, these are all PL/I data types, and it really comes from 360 >> architecture which was designed witgh PL/I in mind. >> > > PL/I is that old? > Yes, in fact Gene Amdahl told me that his team worked closely with the group responsible for the new language. -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 17:32:11 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: World's Fastest Processor? For Now, Anyway Message-ID: <5bjc4rF2r5absU1@mid.individual.net> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article , "Tom Linden" writes: >> >> Actually, these are all PL/I data types, and it really comes from 360 >> architecture which was designed witgh PL/I in mind. >> > > PL/I is that old? Your joking, right? "PL/I was developed by IBM, at its Hursley Laboratories in the United Kingdom, as part of the development of System/360. " bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 09:07:32 -0400 From: Chip Coldwell Subject: Xpdf 3.02 for OpenVMS/Itanium Message-ID: I'm trying to recompile my Xpdf packages for OpenVMS/Itanium on one of the HP test-drive systems, but it seems that some crucial DECWindows headers are missing: CXX /FLOAT=IEEE/IEEE=UNDERFLOW/EXTERN=STRICT/WARN=(DISABLE=(NOSIMPINT))/INCLUDE=([-],[-.GOO],[-.FOFI],[-.SPLASH]) - XPDFVIEWER.CC+USER3:[COLDWELL.SOURCE.T1LIB-5_1_1]T1LIB/LIB+USER3:[COLDWELL.SOURCE.FREETYPE-2_3_4.BUILDS.VMS]FREETYPE/LIB #include ....................^ %CXX-F-SRCFILNOOPEN, could not open source file "X11/xpm.h" at line number 21 in file USER3:[COLDWELL.SOURCE.XPDF-3_02.XPDF]XPDFVIEWER.CC;1 %CXX-I-MESSAGE, 1 catastrophic error detected in the compilation of "USER3:[COLDWELL.SOURCE.XPDF-3_02.XPDF]XPDFVIEWER.CC;1". %CXX-I-MESSAGE, Compilation terminated. %MMS-F-ABORT, For target XPDFVIEWER.OBJ, CLI returned abort status: %X18000004. %MMS-F-ABORT, For target [.xpdf]xpdf.exe, CLI returned abort status: %X10EE8034. $ sho log x11 "X11" = "DECW$INCLUDE" (DECW$LOGICAL_NAMES) 1 "DECW$INCLUDE" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[DECW$INCLUDE]" (DECW$LOGICAL_NAMES) = "SYS$SYSROOT:[DECW$INCLUDE.EXTENSIONS]" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[DECW$INCLUDE.ICE]" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[DECW$INCLUDE.SM]" $ dir x11:xpm.h %DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found Does anybody know whom I should contact to get this fixed? Chip -- Charles M. "Chip" Coldwell "Turn on, log in, tune out" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 11:59:03 -0400 From: Chip Coldwell Subject: Re: Xpdf 3.02 for OpenVMS/Itanium Message-ID: On Wed, 23 May 2007, Chip Coldwell wrote: > > I'm trying to recompile my Xpdf packages for OpenVMS/Itanium on one of the > HP test-drive systems, but it seems that some crucial DECWindows headers > are missing: > > CXX /FLOAT=IEEE/IEEE=UNDERFLOW/EXTERN=STRICT/WARN=(DISABLE=(NOSIMPINT))/INCLUDE=([-],[-.GOO],[-.FOFI],[-.SPLASH]) - > XPDFVIEWER.CC+USER3:[COLDWELL.SOURCE.T1LIB-5_1_1]T1LIB/LIB+USER3:[COLDWELL.SOURCE.FREETYPE-2_3_4.BUILDS.VMS]FREETYPE/LIB > > #include > ....................^ > %CXX-F-SRCFILNOOPEN, could not open source file "X11/xpm.h" > at line number 21 in file > USER3:[COLDWELL.SOURCE.XPDF-3_02.XPDF]XPDFVIEWER.CC;1 > > %CXX-I-MESSAGE, 1 catastrophic error detected in the compilation of > "USER3:[COLDWELL.SOURCE.XPDF-3_02.XPDF]XPDFVIEWER.CC;1". > > %CXX-I-MESSAGE, Compilation terminated. > %MMS-F-ABORT, For target XPDFVIEWER.OBJ, CLI returned abort status: > %X18000004. > %MMS-F-ABORT, For target [.xpdf]xpdf.exe, CLI returned abort status: > %X10EE8034. > $ sho log x11 > "X11" = "DECW$INCLUDE" (DECW$LOGICAL_NAMES) > 1 "DECW$INCLUDE" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[DECW$INCLUDE]" (DECW$LOGICAL_NAMES) > = "SYS$SYSROOT:[DECW$INCLUDE.EXTENSIONS]" > = "SYS$SYSROOT:[DECW$INCLUDE.ICE]" > = "SYS$SYSROOT:[DECW$INCLUDE.SM]" > $ dir x11:xpm.h > %DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found > > Does anybody know whom I should contact to get this fixed? Nevermind. The XPM library is not part of the normal DECWindows install, so I have to build that one, too. Chip -- Charles M. "Chip" Coldwell "Turn on, log in, tune out" ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 18:08:43 +0200 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: [TCPIP] UUEN/DECODE? Message-ID: <4654832b$1@news.langstoeger.at> In article <465470d7$1@news.langstoeger.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) writes: >I've a UUENCODEd File (a Textfile, encoded on a current VMS system, and sent >via Mail to me) here which when decoded expands to an empty file. > >I was a little bit surprised because I can see ~90 lines of UU data >and expected a ~60 lines textfile after decoding. But alas. 0 Blocks. I narrowed it down. Every line in the UUENCODED file ended with a "X". Counting the characters led me believe, that the lines were too long by this "X" and so I removed the character in every line. And then I was finally able to UUDECODE the file (and I got my Text - with every line ending in a ^M, which I could also see on Solaris). So, now I've to find out, how the sending VMS system encoded a bad UU file (and what the original file really was, perhaps a VFC file, as the ^M are normally not there in a VMS textfile ;-) and why a Solaris system can UUDECODE such a bad file, while a TCPIP$UUDECODE can not. My question for a UUCODE.TPU is still valid ;-) -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 16:13:47 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: [TCPIP] UUEN/DECODE? Message-ID: <%KZ4i.490$ZA.625@newsb.telia.net> I've found that "uuencode" is not always = "uuencode"... uuencode from different systems gives different numbers in the first line (begin...). I just tried uuencode on a 8.2 system, and it says "begin 750...." on the first line, and there are no "X" on the end of the lines. I can not mail it from that system, though... Jan-Erik. Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER wrote: > In article <465470d7$1@news.langstoeger.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) writes: >> I've a UUENCODEd File (a Textfile, encoded on a current VMS system, and sent >> via Mail to me) here which when decoded expands to an empty file. >> >> I was a little bit surprised because I can see ~90 lines of UU data >> and expected a ~60 lines textfile after decoding. But alas. 0 Blocks. > > I narrowed it down. Every line in the UUENCODED file ended with a "X". > Counting the characters led me believe, that the lines were too long > by this "X" and so I removed the character in every line. And then I was > finally able to UUDECODE the file (and I got my Text - with every line > ending in a ^M, which I could also see on Solaris). > > So, now I've to find out, how the sending VMS system encoded a bad UU > file (and what the original file really was, perhaps a VFC file, as > the ^M are normally not there in a VMS textfile ;-) and why a Solaris > system can UUDECODE such a bad file, while a TCPIP$UUDECODE can not. > > My question for a UUCODE.TPU is still valid ;-) > ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 18:23:05 +0200 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: [TCPIP] UUEN/DECODE? Message-ID: <46548689$1@news.langstoeger.at> In article <%KZ4i.490$ZA.625@newsb.telia.net>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: >I've found that "uuencode" is not always = "uuencode"... >uuencode from different systems gives different >numbers in the first line (begin...). The number in the first line is the protection mask of the source file in UNIX notation. Better forget it... -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 11:59:40 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: [TCPIP] UUEN/DECODE? Message-ID: In article <465470d7$1@news.langstoeger.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) writes: > > I find it strange (it is pure text, always) and annoying (I haven't > more than one UUDECODE on my VMS - btw: before I perhaps write one, > does someone have a UUDECODE in TPU?) I found one written in C a long time ago. Also a uuencode. Most likely from gnu. ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 12:04:02 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: [TCPIP] UUEN/DECODE? Message-ID: In article <4654832b$1@news.langstoeger.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) writes: > > I narrowed it down. Every line in the UUENCODED file ended with a "X". > Counting the characters led me believe, that the lines were too long > by this "X" and so I removed the character in every line. And then I was > finally able to UUDECODE the file (and I got my Text - with every line > ending in a ^M, which I could also see on Solaris). > > So, now I've to find out, how the sending VMS system encoded a bad UU > file (and what the original file really was, perhaps a VFC file, as > the ^M are normally not there in a VMS textfile ;-) and why a Solaris > system can UUDECODE such a bad file, while a TCPIP$UUDECODE can not. Ending in X sounds odd. I'd assume some kind of improper file transfer was involved. Transfer to Solaris probably hid this via it's brain-dead file system. If the transfer was via email and the original was not a standard text format such as variable length or stream, you may have picked up some meta-data that the receiving system thought was data. If the originating and ending system or both VMS, compare a DIR/FULL and a DUMP of the first few blocks. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 19:25:04 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: [TCPIP] UUEN/DECODE? Message-ID: In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article <465470d7$1@news.langstoeger.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter > 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) writes: > > > > I find it strange (it is pure text, always) and annoying (I haven't > > more than one UUDECODE on my VMS - btw: before I perhaps write one, > > does someone have a UUDECODE in TPU?) > > I found one written in C a long time ago. Also a uuencode. > > Most likely from gnu. There's one written in C (V1.1-0, 29-MAR-1996) at http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?UUCODE -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 17:39:27 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: [TCPIP] UUEN/DECODE? Message-ID: <5bjcifF2r5absU2@mid.individual.net> In article <%KZ4i.490$ZA.625@newsb.telia.net>, Jan-Erik Söderholm writes: > I've found that "uuencode" is not always = "uuencode"... > uuencode from different systems gives different > numbers in the first line (begin...). Do you know what that number is? > > I just tried uuencode on a 8.2 system, and it says > "begin 750...." on the first line, and there are > no "X" on the end of the lines. I can not mail > it from that system, though... That number is the "mode" of the file, a unixism obviuously somewhat faked by none-unix systems both in the creation and the interperetation. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 2007 19:46:16 +0200 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: [TCPIP] UUEN/DECODE? Message-ID: <46549a08$1@news.langstoeger.at> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > Ending in X sounds odd. I'd assume some kind of improper > file transfer was involved. Nope. VMSmail COPY=SELF shows that the sending file had this X already. So, something on VMS there (with TCPIP$ENCODE and TCPIP/VMSmail) did it. > Transfer to Solaris probably hid this > via it's brain-dead file system. Nope. "File transfer" was copy&paste ;-) > If the transfer was via email and the original was not a standard > text format such as variable length or stream, you may have picked > up some meta-data that the receiving system thought was data. This is the current bet. But the other problem, that TCPIP$DECODE didn't decode the file, while SOLARIS uudecode did, still stands. Why can't we have tools which tell us when they don't like what they get (instead of only doing nothing and returning a success status)... > If the originating and ending system or both VMS, compare a > DIR/FULL and a DUMP of the first few blocks. The original file was temporary (was deleted after VMSmail with COPY=SELF) But I'll catch one sometimes ;-) Thanks for reading/responding folks -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.282 ************************