INFO-VAX Sun, 06 May 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 248 Contents: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Re: Apache on OpenVMS 7.2 Alpha Re: BASIC problem calling LIB$ RTL Re: BASIC problem calling LIB$ RTL Re: BASIC problem calling LIB$ RTL command file for use with sftp2 Re: command file for use with sftp2 Re: Has Linux Peaked ? Re: Slightly OT: HOTMAIL and spam Re: Slightly OT: HOTMAIL and spam Re: Slightly OT: HOTMAIL and spam Re: Slightly OT: HOTMAIL and spam Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 13:06:52 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Message-ID: <90f83$463e0b37$cef8887a$15751@TEKSAVVY.COM> Since HP isn't willing to lift a finger to promote VMS, what if the user community were to launch a jihad to promote VMS via the hobbyist programme ? We start telling popular news sites about it, make the CDs available for download and promote the hell out of it, and use comp.os.vms as a hobbyist support medium. Now, if HP then turns around and tells us we can't do that, we also go to the media and tell the world HP is unhappy with VMS being marketed. HP would have serious egg on its face. (especially when you look at how Sun is making Solaris easy to get.) There are vendors out there (like the guy with british accent whose secretary has a southern georgian accent :-) who have cheap Alphas. When you think about it, user-initiated marketing might be what is needed because not only would it provide much needed marketing for VMS, but it would also corner HP and force it to accept a popular VMS operating system. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 13:11:25 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Message-ID: <463E0C3D.5020706@comcast.net> JF Mezei wrote: > Since HP isn't willing to lift a finger to promote VMS, what if the user > community were to launch a jihad to promote VMS via the hobbyist > programme ? > > We start telling popular news sites about it, make the CDs available for > download and promote the hell out of it, and use comp.os.vms as a > hobbyist support medium. > > Now, if HP then turns around and tells us we can't do that, we also go > to the media and tell the world HP is unhappy with VMS being marketed. > HP would have serious egg on its face. What makes you think HP would even notice (more) egg on its face? BTW, is there anyone left at HP who speaks unaccented American English? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 13:21:46 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Message-ID: <463e0ea2$0$90262$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> JF Mezei wrote: > Since HP isn't willing to lift a finger to promote VMS, what if the user > community were to launch a jihad to promote VMS via the hobbyist > programme ? > > We start telling popular news sites about it, make the CDs available for > download and promote the hell out of it, and use comp.os.vms as a > hobbyist support medium. Depending on how you count there are dozens or hundreds of OS's freely available. Why should the news media pay special attention to VMS hobbyist ?? Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 13:23:40 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Message-ID: <463e0f14$0$90262$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > BTW, is there anyone left at HP who speaks unaccented American English? Does it matter ? Arne PS: According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hurd then Hurd is born in New Your City - does that qualify for american english speaking ? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 13:45:34 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Message-ID: <463E143E.3030805@comcast.net> Arne Vajhøj wrote: > Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > >> BTW, is there anyone left at HP who speaks unaccented American English? > > > Does it matter ? > Only if you are a mono-lingual American trying to follow what the guy in HP technical support is saying! > Arne > > PS: According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hurd then Hurd > is born in New Your City - does that qualify for american english > speaking ? Does Mark Hurd know anything about VMS? Or about the PCs his company sells? Or about the software that runs on those PC's? If not, why would anyone care about what he says? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 13:54:50 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Message-ID: <463e1662$0$90263$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >> >>> BTW, is there anyone left at HP who speaks unaccented American English? >> >> >> Does it matter ? >> > Only if you are a mono-lingual American trying to follow what the guy in > HP technical support is saying! > >> Arne >> >> PS: According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hurd then Hurd >> is born in New Your City - does that qualify for american english >> speaking ? > > Does Mark Hurd know anything about VMS? Or about the PCs his company > sells? Or about the software that runs on those PC's? If not, why > would anyone care about what he says? Sorry. I missed the point that you were talking about support. It is a good guess that Hurd does not know anything technical about VMS. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 17:02:54 +0930 From: Mark Daniel Subject: Re: Apache on OpenVMS 7.2 Alpha Message-ID: <133qtr86791182f@corp.supernews.com> Arne Vajhøj wrote: > Doc wrote: > >> Anything you can do with Apache, you can do with WASD. > > > What about Tomcat integration (mod_jk or other) ? > > Arne Reverse proxy seems to be the most common solution. Tomcat is/can-be an independent server anyway. -- We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. [Kurt Vonnegut; Mother Night] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 11:59:36 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: BASIC problem calling LIB$ RTL Message-ID: <00A6733C.F401ECA3@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <1178418572.462196.151280@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, Hein RMS van den Heuvel writes: > > >On May 2, 9:21 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > >>> LIB$RENAME_FILE returns %BAS-F-TOOFEWARG > >No it did not. LIB$RENAME_FILE was never called. > >> The %BAS-F-TOOFEWARG is misleading error. The problem was that a routine >> entry point was improperly passed to the LIB$RENAME_FILE RTL. I used the >> LOC() and fixed the problem. > >I realize it is pretty much a moot point, but that explanation is >bullshit. Just reporting what was displayed in the symbolic editor. I prefer seeing what is really being executed (machine instructions) and usually debug in DELTA. >The error message was most accurate. > >The basic program was just plain wrong. > >>>> S%=LIB$RENAME_FILE(FROM$,TO$, , , , ,RENAME_ERROR, , , ,RESULT$, ) > >Compare this to for example this slightly contrived example. > > S%=LIB$RENAME_FILE(EDIT$(FROM$,2%),TO >$, , , , ,RENAME_ERROR, , , ,RESULT$, ) > >What do you expect the compile to do? >Pass the address of the edit function or the result of calling it? > >Ditto for RENAME_ERROR... >It is a function, so the result of calling it is passed as an argument >to LIB$RENAME_FILE. However, it is called with 0 arguments so the code >in RENAME_ERROR signals/traps with TOOFEWARG, like it should, BEFORE >LIB$RENAME_FILE is even called. >How is that error message misleading? >If one were to chage the rename_error function to have "OPTION >INACTIVE = SETUP" then it will just (try to) use the non-provided >arguments and crap out with a Memory management violation. > >Cheers, >Hein. Too much knowledge about BASIC for a simple error. I was more interested in this not being MY supplied code (which is was not) and finding what was wrong when the customer invoked my code. As it turned out, wasn't my code at all. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: 6 May 2007 05:37:30 -0700 From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: BASIC problem calling LIB$ RTL Message-ID: <1178455050.752619.127080@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On May 6, 7:59 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <1178418572.462196.151...@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, Hein RMS van den Heuvel writes: >> Too much knowledge about BASIC for a simple error. I still beg to differ.The error would be exactly the same whether the code was written in cobol or fortran or any other HLL. The only thing that would have saved the bad code was a strong function prototype which explicitly declared that argument as address of function. >> Just reporting what was displayed in the symbolic editor. >>I prefer seeing what is really being executed (machine instructions) Same here, same here. That's why before replying I triple checked with BAS/LIST/MACHINE output. Here is that slightly condensed and annotated listing: 0130 RENAME_FILE:: 0134 AND R25, 255, R25 : 016C CMPLT R25, 3, R16 ; Enough arguments? : 0194 JSR R26, DBASIC$INIT ; active = setup : 01A4 CLR R25 01A8 JSR R26, RENAME_ERROR 01B8 LDA R21, 172(FP) ; argument 7 points to result 01B8 LDQ R16, 184(FP) ; argument 1 01C0 STL R0, 172(FP) ; store rename_error result : 01E4 MOV 12, R25 ; argument count : 01F4 JSR R26, LIB$RENAME_FILE ; never get here. : :-) Hein. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 09:21:21 -0400 From: "Neil Rieck" Subject: Re: BASIC problem calling LIB$ RTL Message-ID: <463dc9da$0$16320$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" wrote in message news:1178418572.462196.151280@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... > On May 2, 9:21 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > [...snip...] > > S%=LIB$RENAME_FILE(FROM$,TO$, , , , ,RENAME_ERROR, , , ,RESULT$, ) > > Compare this to for example this slightly contrived example. > > S%=LIB$RENAME_FILE(EDIT$(FROM$,2%),TO > $, , , , ,RENAME_ERROR, , , ,RESULT$, ) > > What do you expect the compile to do? > Pass the address of the edit function or the result of calling it? > The complier will always attempt to evaluate all expressions before attempting to prepare for the call. The main problem with the original program was that the author did not use a formal method to declare LIB$RENAME_FILE. I've seen tons of code like this (almost always written by less disciplined programmers) and the only way to fix it is to replace all the home grown declarations with something like this: %include "starlet" %from %library "sys$library:basic$starlet" ! sys$ %include "$ssdef" %from %library "sys$library:basic$starlet" ! ss$ %include "lib$routines" %from %library "sys$library:basic$starlet" ! lib$ %include "$libclidef" %from %library "sys$library:basic$starlet" ! lib$ cli I took the liberty of peeking into starlet for LIB$RENAME_FILE and this is what I found: ! LIB$RENAME_FILE ! ! Rename One or More Files ! ! The Rename One or More Files routine changes the names of one or more ! files. The specification of the files to be renamed may include ! wildcards. LIB$RENAME_FILE is similar in function to the DCL command ! RENAME. ! EXTERNAL LONG FUNCTION lib$rename_file & ( STRING BY DESC, & STRING BY DESC, & OPTIONAL STRING BY DESC, & STRING BY DESC, & LONG BY REF, & LONG BY VALUE, & LONG BY VALUE, & LONG BY VALUE, & LONG BY VALUE, & STRING BY DESC, & STRING BY DESC, & LONG BY REF & ) Click the following link if you want to see how I peeked into the starlet library. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/hacking_OpenVMS_starlet.html Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 09:01:48 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: command file for use with sftp2 Message-ID: Usage: sftp2 [-D debug_level_spec] [-B batchfile] [-S path] [-h] [-V] [-P port] [-b buffer_size] [-N max_requests] [-c cipher] [-m mac] [-4] [-6] [-o option_to_ssh2] [user@]host[#port] sftp> help SFTP client Sftp2 © Copyright 1976, 2003 Hewlett-Packard Development Company, L.P. Type 'help ', where is one of the following commands: open lopen close quit cd lcd pwd lpwd ls lls get mget put mput rm lrm mkdir lmkdir rmdir lrmdir rename lrename readlink lreadlink symlink lsymlink ascii binary auto setext getext lsroots debug verbose help What I want to do is create a command file with various commands, in particular the names of files to be transferred, then use that as input to sftp2. sftp2 -B filename doesn't seem to work (nor does it give any error message). In other words, what I want is the equivalent of FTP/INPUT and I'm hoping that the input file can contain the same commands I would use interactively. The username and password don't have to be within the command file; they could be specified on the command line. (They could be inside this temporary command file; it really doesn't matter.) Can someone post a working example? ------------------------------ Date: 6 May 2007 02:54:51 -0700 From: Ian Miller Subject: Re: command file for use with sftp2 Message-ID: <1178445291.095723.185990@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> did you quote the -B ie. sftp2 "-B" ... What is the error message? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 11:39:44 +0200 From: Martin Krischik Subject: Re: Has Linux Peaked ? Message-ID: <463da260$1@news.post.ch> John Santos schrieb: >> Difference to VMS is: It took me a quarter of an hour to compile GNU-grep >> (and later GNU-find) on Solaris. No "business requirement" and the >> associated paperwork, explanations, statistic on expected increase in >> productivity, budget etc pp needed. And I still got what I need to work >> efficiently. > Why is this good? Are you permitted to do this on production systems? The tools are installed in my home directory which is mounted to a network directory. And chances that I ever access production Solaris systems are pretty slim. > Are any 2 of the dozens of systems you access on a regular or irregular > basis configured in exactly the same way? Or is it a mishmash of > randomness? Of course not - they are not even the same operating system. But I have well organised Login.com's and .bashrc's to sort out the mess. Martin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 07:59:38 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Slightly OT: HOTMAIL and spam Message-ID: In article <63fab$463ce401$cef8887a$20715@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: > Just a heads up: the microsoft email franchises (hotmail, msn etc) have > recently implemented new email policies. > > If you send an email to one of their subscribers, chances are that the > email will be accepted by hotmail, but hotmail will simply sent it to > the great microsoft bit bucket without any warning or indication. > > However, if an hotmail user sends you a message and you reply to it, it > then the message will get through. > > So don't be surprised when you send a bina fide email and the intended > recipients don't get them on hotmail/msn/whatever) This illustrates the possibilities of backscatter spam. The spammer wants to spam people with a hotmail address. What does he do? He puts that address as the From: address and then sends the spam to lots of other addresses. At these other addresses, it is recognised as spam, gets rejected due to no such user etc. If these other addresses generate a bounce, as opposed to dropping the mail during the SMTP transaction, then the hotmail folks get the bounce, which probably contains the original spam. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 08:02:19 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Slightly OT: HOTMAIL and spam Message-ID: In article <1178418831.223991.261180@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Hein RMS van den Heuvel writes: > On May 5, 4:07 pm, JF Mezei wrote: > > Just a heads up: the microsoft email franchises (hotmail, msn etc) have > > recently implemented new email policies. > > Yeah, I saw a surprising, and suspicious, reduction in spam to my > hotmail account since a few weeks, and it worried me some that they > might be eating Email. > > My other free Email is with gmail and there I have periods of problems > notably with sending to HP. I guess I am hosted on a gmail server > which is blacklisted at time by the crappy mail-abuse 'service', and > HP seems to use those 'services'. At least it comes back (after days) > as 'undeliverable' wiht explanations like: > > Technical details of temporary failure > > TEMP_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 9): 450 Service temporarily > unavailable; Client host [66.249.92.172] blocked using qil.mail- > abuse.com; Mail from 66.249.92.172 blocked using Trend Micro Network > Anti-Spam Service. Please see lookup?66.249.92.172> For more information see > http://www.mail-abuse.com/cgi-bin/lookup?ip_address=66.249.92.172 > > > Highly annoying for an innocent bystander like myself > - I'm not sending spam, just respoding to Email from HP > - It is not my system actually sending the Email > - I can not choose my server @ Gmail Spam has increased so much that one can't avoid rejecting email from addresses which have sent spam in the past. In this case, it seems that Gmail doesn't get rid of spammers quickly enough, and thus gets blacklisted. Lots of folks run an SMTP relay server which their customers send outgoing mail through. Obviously, they make sure that no-one sends spam, to avoid getting blacklisted. ------------------------------ Date: 6 May 2007 03:07:12 -0700 From: Ian Miller Subject: Re: Slightly OT: HOTMAIL and spam Message-ID: <1178446032.593153.155490@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> secure server is a marvellous thing with a https web interface and many fine feaures ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 06:48:58 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Slightly OT: HOTMAIL and spam Message-ID: On Sun, 06 May 2007 03:07:12 -0700, Ian Miller wrote: > secure server is a marvellous thing with a https web interface and > many fine feaures > Indeed it is, with WASD as the web server I can view the entire file system(s) on our cluster from my XP laptop using the Opera browser. In fact, I can open any file with Xemacs, by specifying the full path name, https://... and edit it on the PC, Haven't yet figured out how to open a specific file with Xemacs from the Opera browser. I think I may have to make it a plug in -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 11:25:26 +0200 From: Martin Krischik Subject: Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Message-ID: <463d9f05$1@news.post.ch> Neil Rieck schrieb: > Obviously Sun is targeting this product at a younger audience but those > people are going to be the developers of the future. During all this I > kept asking myself "what is HP doing to promote OpenVMS?" Nothing! And in some respect you shed light from a different angle to the same problem I was ranting about recently: Missing appeal for OpenVMS to the younger generation (Note: I am from the in between generating: I prefer a popper IDE, GUI setup tool, desktop environment etc. pp. but I can work with a command line when needed). Martin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 11:30:31 +0200 From: Martin Krischik Subject: Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Message-ID: <463da036$1@news.post.ch> JF Mezei schrieb: >> Neil Rieck wrote: >> "what is HP doing to promote OpenVMS?" >> > Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >> A rhetorical question? We all know the answer is "Nothing!" > > Now that HP has had VMS for over 5 years, now that Carly has been out > for over a year, can we start to draw conclusions that HP has no > intentions to grow VMS and, like Palmer's "affinity program", HP would > rather see VMS customers migrate to another platform (Windows or HP-UX). Now, why would I replace VMS with HP-UX? I don't see HP-UX being actively promoted or developed (with active_development /= maintanance_development). The only alternatives I can see are Linux and Solaris. Martin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 07:56:48 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Message-ID: <07050607564854_202002DA@antinode.org> From: Martin Krischik > Now, why would I replace VMS with HP-UX? I don't see HP-UX being > actively promoted or developed (with active_development /= > maintanance_development). Perhaps the attractive HP-UX Hobbyist program? No, wait. There isn't one. Never mind. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 09:52:41 -0400 From: "Neil Rieck" Subject: Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Message-ID: <463dd132$0$18465$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> "Steven M. Schweda" wrote in message news:07050607564854_202002DA@antinode.org... > From: Martin Krischik > [...snip...] > > Perhaps the attractive HP-UX Hobbyist program? No, wait. There > isn't one. Never mind. > Yikes. So let me get this straight: In the Compaq days an enthusiast program existed to allow people to buy Tru64 for US$99 but there isn't an equivalent program today for HP-UX ? What are they thinking? Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: 6 May 2007 08:37:26 -0700 From: Rambo Subject: Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Message-ID: <1178465846.324045.104570@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> > Yikes. So let me get this straight: In the Compaq days an enthusiast program > existed to allow people to buy Tru64 for US$99 but there isn't an equivalent > program today for HP-UX ? What are they thinking? But think of that: Tru64 for 0 and VMS for 30 bucks. Really nice alternative... As a side note, I'm becoming increasingly pissed off at HP support too. Took me hour to seek X11 headers and had to order 2 useless things (luckilly for free), before I found out by simple search in software depot by "X11 header files"- that there's just a package with that. I will not mourn when HP will loose server market share, just as I haven't mourned SGI loosing visualization and 3D market share (and they both don't acknowledge the "enthusiasts" community, Sun, however, apparently does). Rambo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 12:05:35 -0400 From: "Neil Rieck" Subject: Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Message-ID: <463df058$0$16263$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> "Martin Krischik" wrote in message news:463d9f05$1@news.post.ch... > Neil Rieck schrieb: > >> Obviously Sun is targeting this product at a younger audience but those >> people are going to be the developers of the future. During all this I >> kept asking myself "what is HP doing to promote OpenVMS?" > > Nothing! And in some respect you shed light from a different angle to the > same problem I was ranting about recently: Missing appeal for OpenVMS to > the younger generation (Note: I am from the in between generating: I > prefer a popper IDE, GUI setup tool, desktop environment etc. pp. but I > can work with a command line when needed). > > Martin > There's another point to all this: Sun wants to remain in business and has decided to embrace other software and hardware technologies. Using investments as an analogy, you get either "bet" your whole portfolio on a single stock (SPARC) or you can protect yourself from disaster by diversification (SPARC, x86, x86-64). Staying with this analogy, HP is becoming less diversified (Itanium2). The Sun IDE was able to produce code which would run on either Solaris or Linux. What if, one day, the folks at HP put their software dogmas aside and produced an equivalent IDE which would generate code for OpenVMS, HP-UX, Linux, and did so for Itanium2, x86-64, and maybe even PA-RISC, Alpha and VAX? I think HP is making a big mistake by not thinking along these lines. Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 12:57:42 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Message-ID: Neil Rieck wrote: >What if, one day, the folks at HP put their software dogmas aside and > produced an equivalent IDE which would generate code for OpenVMS, HP-UX, > Linux, and did so for Itanium2, x86-64, and maybe even PA-RISC, Alpha and > VAX? I think HP is making a big mistake by not thinking along these lines. HP proudly posted on its web site sone IDC study on the effects of IA64. That study gave a rosy future for IA64: HP would not get many new customers, and it would lose 30% of its enterprise customer base due to the forced move to IA64. This can only mean that HP has no real interest in "enterprise" operating systems. The Cerner story of HP wanting Cerner on HP-UX but not VMS is *INEXCUSABLE*. How can anyone now believe that HP truly wants VMS to succeed ? Unless HP tells Cerner to drop plans for HP-UX and stick to VMS, HP will have no credibility when it says that VMS is here to stay in the long term. You can garantee support for 100 years if you want, but if you stop developping and if you push ISVs to other platforms, then it won't matter because there won't be any customers left to support for 100 years. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 13:18:19 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Message-ID: <463e0dd3$0$90262$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Neil Rieck wrote: > There's another point to all this: Sun wants to remain in business and > has decided to embrace other software and hardware technologies. Using > investments as an analogy, you get either "bet" your whole portfolio on > a single stock (SPARC) or you can protect yourself from disaster by > diversification (SPARC, x86, x86-64). Staying with this analogy, HP is > becoming less diversified (Itanium2). I think you should write "VMS" instead of "HP". HP sell a lot of x86/x86-64 boxes. > The Sun IDE was able to produce code which would run on either Solaris > or Linux. What if, one day, the folks at HP put their software dogmas > aside and produced an equivalent IDE which would generate code for > OpenVMS, HP-UX, Linux, and did so for Itanium2, x86-64, and maybe even > PA-RISC, Alpha and VAX? I think HP is making a big mistake by not > thinking along these lines. I believe those multi-architecture executables just consist of different versions appended with a header. It should not be that big an effort to do. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 13:19:15 -0400 From: =?windows-1252?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Message-ID: <463e0e0b$0$90262$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Neil Rieck wrote: > Yikes. So let me get this straight: In the Compaq days an enthusiast > program existed to allow people to buy Tru64 for US$99 but there isn't > an equivalent program today for HP-UX ? What are they thinking? That people will move to Linux ... Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 11:59:16 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Message-ID: <07050611591613_202002DA@antinode.org> From: "Neil Rieck" > > Perhaps the attractive HP-UX Hobbyist program? No, wait. There > > isn't one. Never mind. > > Yikes. So let me get this straight: In the Compaq days an enthusiast program > existed to allow people to buy Tru64 for US$99 but there isn't an equivalent > program today for HP-UX ? What are they thinking? I can't speak authoritatively about their thoughts, but they seem to believe that the DSPP is adequate. I recently inquired about the HP-UX migration program for Non-Commercial Tru64 users, and that was the best anyone could find. Naturally, the DSPP is open only to actual businesses who sell software, not peons like me who sit at home and develop free software. The people I contacted at HP were nice enough, they just had nothing to offer. From: Rambo > But think of that: Tru64 for 0 and VMS for 30 bucks. Really nice > [...] Non-Comm Tru64 was $99 the first time, and $49 for an upgrade, but it did lack the annual license expiration annoyance. (It also lacked the long list of layered product licenses, like, say, for the C++ compiler.) You did get a more complete CD-ROM kit than with VMS (free S&H with a credit-card payment, though). I've been making my own media from downloaded Solaris (and Sun Studio) CD-ROM images, mostly because my Ultra 60 lacks a DVD-ROM drive, but while I was asking HP about Hobbyist HP-UX, I put in an order for my free Solaris medium kit. That's $0, plus $0 S&H. It (three DVD-ROMs in a nice box) arrived a few days later, sooner than I could get a firm "no" from HP on HP-UX. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.248 ************************