INFO-VAX Sat, 05 May 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 245 Contents: Re: BASIC problem calling LIB$ RTL Re: BASIC problem calling LIB$ RTL Booting a poor-man's LAVC [was:Interesting cluster config "deadlock"] Re: Booting a poor-man's LAVC [was:Interesting cluster config "deadlock"] Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? RE: Java problem RE: Java problem Re: Java problem Re: List of VMS command file .COM domain names (was: Free email account VMSUSER. Re: List of VMS command file .COM domain names (was: Free email account VMSUSER. Re: Medical software vendor says it won't support OS on Itanium-basedservers Ita Re: Noahs ark found! Re: Noahs ark found! Re: Noahs ark found! Re: Noahs ark found! Re: Noahs ark found! Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Re: reg:urgent req of hpopenvms Re: reg:urgent req of hpopenvms Re: reg:urgent req of hpopenvms ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 21:18:11 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: BASIC problem calling LIB$ RTL Message-ID: <463BE963.A5E09823@spam.comcast.net> VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > In article , "Jeffrey H. Coffield" writes: > > > > > >VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > >> I'm not a BASIC programmer. Can somebody take a look at this and tell me > >> why calling LIB$RENAME_FILE returns %BAS-F-TOOFEWARG. The equivalent code > >> in Macro works. > >> > > > >Why not this? > > > > NAME FROM$ AS TO$ > > > >Also declaring all variables and compiling with /TYPE:EXPLICIT will > >catch a lot of problems. > > > >Jeff Coffield > > Again, I'm not a BASIC programmer and, as you have pointed out, neither > was the person that authored this code. > > The %BAS-F-TOOFEWARG is misleading error. The problem was that a routine > entry point was improperly passed to the LIB$RENAME_FILE RTL. I used the > LOC() and fixed the problem. I think I see what may have happened. TYPE=EXPLICIT was not in force at compile time, leaving TYPE=IMPLICIT in force. RENAME_ERROR was not explicitly declared as a variable at compile time and the name does not contain a dollar sign ("$"); so, RENAME_ERROR was implicitly declared as a numeric variable of the default type and size. The implicitly declared variable was initialized to zero at runtime. Now consider the calling standard. It is very likely that this leaves two consecutive zero longwords on the stack at just the right alignment - thus signifying the end of the argument list. Thus, the RTL routine likely interpreted that as TOOFEWARG since the apparent end of the argument list occurred before it was expected. Had RENAME_ERROR also been a previously used variable with a non-zero value, the result would likely have been an ACCVIO when the RTL routine tried to use its contents as an address. That would have been equally or even more misleading, and perhaps a bit more difficult to troubleshoot. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 12:36:09 +1000 From: Jim Duff Subject: Re: BASIC problem calling LIB$ RTL Message-ID: <463bed99$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au> David J Dachtera wrote: > VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: [snip] >> Again, I'm not a BASIC programmer and, as you have pointed out, neither >> was the person that authored this code. >> >> The %BAS-F-TOOFEWARG is misleading error. The problem was that a routine >> entry point was improperly passed to the LIB$RENAME_FILE RTL. I used the >> LOC() and fixed the problem. > > I think I see what may have happened. > > TYPE=EXPLICIT was not in force at compile time, leaving TYPE=IMPLICIT in > force. > > RENAME_ERROR was not explicitly declared as a variable at compile time > and the name does not contain a dollar sign ("$"); so, RENAME_ERROR was > implicitly declared as a numeric variable of the default type and size. The > implicitly declared variable was initialized to zero at runtime. Actually, it was. See the line that says: EXTERNAL LONG FUNCTION RENAME_ERROR > > Now consider the calling standard. It is very likely that this leaves > two consecutive zero longwords on the stack at just the right alignment > - thus signifying the end of the argument list. Thus, the RTL routine > likely interpreted that as TOOFEWARG since the apparent end of the > argument list occurred before it was expected. > > Had RENAME_ERROR also been a previously used variable with a non-zero value, the > result would likely have been an ACCVIO when the RTL routine tried to use its > contents as an address. That would have been equally or even more misleading, > and perhaps a bit more difficult to troubleshoot. > Applying Occam's Razor (and compiling /list/machine) you will find that the bare reference to RENAME_ERROR is treated by the compiler as a function invocation. Because RENAME_ERROR requires six arguments, and none are supplied, the runtime error results. Jim. -- www.eight-cubed.com ------------------------------ Date: 4 May 2007 14:10:52 -0500 From: cornelius@encompasserve.org (George Cornelius) Subject: Booting a poor-man's LAVC [was:Interesting cluster config "deadlock"] Message-ID: In article <1171983169.765046.30190@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>, etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk writes: > I know some full production environments that have been like this for many months (years?) > I managed an environment where a VAX with locally attached DSSI disks > was clustered with a pair of turbolasers with shared SCSI. The VAX > needed stuff from the Alphas to boot and the Alphas needed stuff from > the VAX. > We also needed to retain cluster quorum. > Ultimate answer was to bring up the one Alpha with very little > starting. Then bring up the VAX and the other Alpha, then reboot the first Alpha. > Messy, but it worked. > JF Mezei wrote: >> The local transformer blew its fuse on a very cold winter day. I was >> litterally powerless to keep my systems running. >> Upon rebooting, I found myself in an interesting situation. Being in the >> (slow) process of moving stuff and restructuring my cluster, I found out my >> cluster had been left in a precarious state ! >> >> SYSUAF (et all) was still on a node1 disk. User disk is on node2, but node2 >> boots off node3. Old topic, I know, but I think it is important to mention that network based clusters tend to have these issues, especially if you don't have multipathed disks (CI,DSSI, Fibrechannel, etc). CI and DSSI based clusters really are the gold standard and we have to work around the missing features when we go to LAVC's. With regard to non-shared disks, I have tried various things in vanilla, low-to-moderate-budget LAVC's over the years. My first idea, and I used this for some time, was a three member shadow set for the critical data, with one member on each of the three uVAX 3100's that made up the cluster. I wrote an elaborate startup sequence that waited for a second member to join when rebooting from scratch, then tried to mount the shadow set with /NOCOPY and a minimum of two members. Unfortunately, I did not realize that $ MOUNT/NOASSIST would mount _whatever_ members it saw instead of the ones you wanted it to mount, and although I thought I was safe from the old "fall backward in time" issue of mounting a stale shadow member by my two-out-of-three code, I was in fact completely exposed [fixed now - see $ MOUNT/POLICY]. When I learned this, I changed /NOASSIST to /ASSIST and played games: issuing a mount in a spawned subprocess and killing from the parent process if it did not eventually complete, on the assumption that the hang was due to it attempting to ask the (unavailable) operator about some inaccessible disk in the mount op. I still do this for my shared SYSUAF disk in my Fibrechannel clusters, just because it's been working for years and I don't want to destabilize anything. Note that the startup also allows an option for dropping into DCL for manual mount commands if all else fails. I still maintain a couple of poor-man's LAVC's, and have finally decided that if there are no funds to do anything truly highly available/highly reliable, I should just put all the data on the boot node and let the application nodes wait for it if it is down. But for one that I inherited that does multiple node mirroring with non-multipathed disks, I worked around some of the perennial cluster startup issues by just throwing in a long delay in startup to make sure all the nodes have plenty of time to join before going on to try to mount the shadow sets. At some point I may make it a bit smarter, but as far as I am concerned, if there's no budget for high availability then you don't have to pretend you are offering it. Finally, of course, it is allowed to have per-node UAF/RIGHTSLIST/etc, if you have a mechanism for keeping them in synch. Basically, whatever you change anywhere you have to change everywhere. And even if you don't replicate that way it is probably a good idea to keep a reasonably current copy of the SYSUAF stashed away somewhere on each boot disk so you can still log in as SYSTEM if you have to boot without the primary copy. -- George Cornelius cornelius(at)eisner.decus.org cornelius(at)mayo.edu ------------------------------ Date: 4 May 2007 16:44:49 -0500 From: cornelius@encompasserve.org (George Cornelius) Subject: Re: Booting a poor-man's LAVC [was:Interesting cluster config "deadlock"] Message-ID: <7$9fEDFeVHtt@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , cornelius@encompasserve.org (George Cornelius) writes: > Unfortunately, I did not realize > that $ MOUNT/NOASSIST would mount _whatever_ members it saw instead of > the ones you wanted it to mount Correction: What I meant to say was that if you used /NOASSIST it took that as an OK to mount using any _subset_ of the list of members supplied at boot time. -- George Cornelius cornelius(at)eisner.decus.org cornelius(at)mayo.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 13:55:30 -0400 From: sol gongola Subject: Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: >> I though this was supposed to be about >> suggestions for use in a VMS promo. >> >> It is no longer relevant and should be tagged OT. > > I don't know... nobody said how the movie had to be relevant. They just > asked for favorite movies of the VMS crowd. > > Now, if we can can tag OT Noahs ark and all the rest of the *real* nonsense > threads. > "We need a promo for the upcoming HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua, and we would love your input." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 20:48:39 -0700 From: "Z." Subject: Re: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: sol gongola wrote: > "We need a promo for the upcoming HP Partners Roundhouse in Nashua, and we would love your input." Get over yourself! ------------------------------ Date: 4 May 2007 16:10:52 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: RE: Java problem Message-ID: In article , "Main, Kerry" writes: > $ show proc/cont/id=3Dxxx (then hit Q to see quotas) I gotta run home and try that on my 8.3 system. It must have been in the Release Notes, but it didn't sink into the old grey matter. ------------------------------ Date: 5 May 2007 00:07:50 +0200 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: RE: Java problem Message-ID: <463bcad6$1@news.langstoeger.at> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >In article , "Main, Kerry" writes: > >> $ show proc/cont/id=3Dxxx (then hit Q to see quotas) > > I gotta run home and try that on my 8.3 system. It must have been in > the Release Notes, but it didn't sink into the old grey matter. Come on. Who reads the Release Notes at home? First upgrade, then run, then after a long time something new is found ;-) SCNR -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 21:27:26 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Java problem Message-ID: Bob Koehler wrote: >> $ show proc/cont/id=3Dxxx (then hit Q to see quotas) > > I gotta run home and try that on my 8.3 system. It must have been in > the Release Notes, but it didn't sink into the old grey matter. > $HELP SHOW PROC /CONT (warning: the output contains adult material for VMS bigots. Discovering that /CONT has multiple magic keys may cause multiple VMS orgasms). ------------------------------ Date: 4 May 2007 16:19:18 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: List of VMS command file .COM domain names (was: Free email account VMSUSER. Message-ID: In article , moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes: > > The stupid GNV kit also created a [mnt] directory, which is pointers to > all your _other_ disks. So a directory of SYS$SYSDEVICE:[*...] will > list all your files on all your disks, not just SYS$SYSDEVICE! Guess > what a $ PURGE SYS$SYSDEVICE:[*...] will do! > > That GNV kit must have been created by a Unix weenie who didn't understand > the VMS file system, and knew enough VMS to be dangerous ($ SET FILE/ENTER) While I'm not sure I'd call it mnt, the behaviour you're seeing is what a UNIX-portablility kit would need. GNV should include a warning about the consequences and an option not to do this, but should not abandon it. A recursive command from / on a UNIX box will have exactly the problem you're complaining about. When you emulate eunichs, expect to get castrated. (From my Ultrix days, /mnt is a normally empty directory used by the admin to temporarily mount partitions he/she is messing with.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 00:22:11 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: List of VMS command file .COM domain names (was: Free email account VMSUSER. Message-ID: In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >In article , moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes: > >> >> The stupid GNV kit also created a [mnt] directory, which is pointers to >> all your _other_ disks. So a directory of SYS$SYSDEVICE:[*...] will >> list all your files on all your disks, not just SYS$SYSDEVICE! Guess >> what a $ PURGE SYS$SYSDEVICE:[*...] will do! >> >> That GNV kit must have been created by a Unix weenie who didn't understand >> the VMS file system, and knew enough VMS to be dangerous ($ SET FILE/ENTER) > > While I'm not sure I'd call it mnt, the behaviour you're seeing is > what a UNIX-portablility kit would need. GNV should include a > warning about the consequences and an option not to do this, but > should not abandon it. > > A recursive command from / on a UNIX box will have exactly the > problem you're complaining about. When you emulate eunichs, expect > to get castrated. > However if you are going to have this affecting normal VMS commands rather than just Unix commands in the GNV environment ie bash then a lot more integration work needs to be done in VMS ie Extra qualifiers to DIR, PURGE, DELETE etc to stop them following symbolic links and unix style mounts of other disks (and to preserve backwards compatibility the defaults should be NOT to follow such links). (I note that the VMS 8.3 Directory command does have a /SYMLINK qualifier however it appears from help that the default is to follow symlinks which I think is wrong choice. However that makes no difference to the GNV problem since it is using hard-links and mounts.) Also since the GNV root directory links to the top of the disk both VMS commands and recursive unix commands in bash should guard against recursively looping through the contents of that particular directory. This latter effect is an artifact of the way the GNV environment is setup rather than being a "Unix feature" - without GNV the VMS system disk has links from [sysn.syscommon] to [vms$common] but does not have any links back again from within [vms$common] and hence does not suffer from pathological recursion. With GNV installed the system disk suffers from pathological recursion. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University > (From my Ultrix days, /mnt is a normally empty directory used by the > admin to temporarily mount partitions he/she is messing with.) > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 21:14:16 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Medical software vendor says it won't support OS on Itanium-basedservers Ita Message-ID: <463BE878.B6FF9C03@spam.comcast.net> Michiel Erens wrote: > > Andrew wrote: > > On 27 Apr, 14:57, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > >> In article <1177666922.680728.246...@r3g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, > >> Andrew writes: > >> > >> Knowing the complexity of Cerner's product and taking into consideration > >> the dubious future of Itanium (and with it, VMS) can you blame them? > >> This is one of those things that HP management should have anticipated > >> and either didn't, or just chose to ignore. > > > > To be fair to HP Cerner were pretty complimentary about Itanium when > > it came out talking about how it would offer new capabilities to > > OpenVMS customers. > > It is still on their website : > http://www.cerner.com/public/Cerner_2.asp?id=27196 That page says: "Looking forward, Cerner has understood and fully endorses the move to Open VMS running on the Itanium Platform " There is a statement of endorsement, but it lacks any statement of COMMITMENT. (Probably a "guy thing"...) -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: 4 May 2007 10:56:41 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: Noahs ark found! Message-ID: <1178301401.537863.158180@c35g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On May 4, 1:07 pm, Alfred Falk wrote: > AEF wrote innews:1178284173.668688.105910@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com: > > > > > > > On May 4, 9:02 am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob > > Koehler) wrote: [...] > >>From what I remarked about: > > >> ==== > >> 1. The proposition that the sun is in the center of the world and > >> immovable from its place is absurd, philosophically false, and > >> formally heretical; because it is expressly contrary to Holy > >> Scriptures. > > > It says "Holy Scriptures". I guess there could be some other than the > > Bible. Just wondering exactly where in what "Holy Scritpure" the > > charge is referring to. > > > AEF > > In this case, "Holy Scriptures" refers to Genesis _as interpreted by > church leaders_ - who are, of course, divinely inspired and never wrong. > I would say that's what the phrase always means. > > AEF wrote in news:1178281627.335415.304600 > @o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com: > > > Now I'm almost a little surprised because the church did astronomical > > observations and calculations to correct the Julian calendar and start > > the Gregorian calendar in 1582 and this persecution of Galileo happend > > later in the 1600's. And didn't anyone happen to notice that the > > position of the sun relative to "the fixed stars" repeats itself in > > the same yearly cycle as the solstices? This should have been a clue > > but I guess no one picked up on it! (Every star rises about 4 minutes > > [I think it's 3m 56s] earlier each night, completing a "trip" in a > > year. See "sidereal day".) > > These observations are entirely consistant with a stationary earth, and > moving sun and stars - and other planets revolving around the sun. Not > until Newton was there a really good physical reason to choose between > those systems. > > /another AEF Yes except for the remarkable conincidence of the periods of the soltices with the fixed stars. Why would the sun oscillate N and S with the same frequency that it moved against the "fixed stars"? Consistent with the geocentric theory -- yes. But it's still a strong clue that something else might be a better explanation. AEF > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > A L B E R T A Alfred Falk f...@arc.ab.ca > R E S E A R C H Information Systems Dept (780)450-5185 > C O U N C I L 250 Karl Clark Road > Edmonton, Alberta, Canadahttp://www.arc.ab.ca/ T6N 1E4http://outside.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - ------------------------------ Date: 04 May 2007 18:39:31 GMT From: "Dan Drake" Subject: Re: Noahs ark found! Message-ID: On Fri, 4 May 2007 13:09:33 UTC, AEF wrote: > On May 4, 9:02 am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob > Koehler) wrote: > > ... > > I've never experienced any church which actually limited itself to > > teaching only the contents of the Bible. All kinds of authors get > > thier licks in via story books written for Sunday school, new Hymns, > > pamphlets, and such. > > >From what I remarked about: > > > ==== > > 1. The proposition that the sun is in the center of the world and > > immovable from its place is absurd, philosophically false, and formally > > heretical; because it is expressly contrary to Holy Scriptures. > > It says "Holy Scriptures". I guess there could be some other than the > Bible. Just wondering exactly where in what "Holy Scritpure" the > charge is referring to. I would say it's very clear from context that they really mean specific passages from the Bible, but I haven't time just now to look it up. In fact, the bit about Joshua stopping the Sun was discussed quite specifically by both sides. -- Dan Drake dd@dandrake.com http://www.dandrake.com/ porlockjr.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: 04 May 2007 18:46:03 GMT From: "Dan Drake" Subject: Re: Noahs ark found! Message-ID: On Fri, 4 May 2007 17:07:33 UTC, Alfred Falk wrote: > > These observations are entirely consistant with a stationary earth, and > moving sun and stars - and other planets revolving around the sun. Not > until Newton was there a really good physical reason to choose between > those systems. > A statement that is subject to some debate. (And note that the phases of Venus -- not a good physical reason but a good astronomical one -- are really impossible in the old Ptolemaic system, though not that of Tycho Brahe.) But to go further: for entirely convincing observational evidence the world had to wait till the 18th-century discovery of stellar displacement. Then after another century or so there were stellar parallax (Gee, Galileo was right about its existing but being very small because the universe is very large! And so were Copernicus and Archimedes, who did the same math.) and Foucault's pendulum. Similarly, Darwin didn't know beans about the way that descent with modification worked; what he said about it was badly wrong according to what has been found out since. How you ought to deal with incomplete evidence is an open question in the history and philosophy of science, and will always be one, I suppose. One also supposes that this is an odd offshoot of an odd off-topic thread. Might even belong in soc.history.science, if that ng were alive. -- Dan Drake dd@dandrake.com http://www.dandrake.com/ porlockjr.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 16:40:10 -0400 From: "Neil Rieck" Subject: Re: Noahs ark found! Message-ID: <463b8db9$0$16290$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> Got 20 minutes to listen to a TVO speaker discuss the creation of the King James Bible? http://www.tvo.org/podcasts/bi/audio/BIAdamNicholson070106.mp3 Neil -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: 4 May 2007 16:07:59 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Noahs ark found! Message-ID: <9lFJ9IYwTojX@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , Alfred Falk writes: > > These observations are entirely consistant with a stationary earth, and > moving sun and stars - and other planets revolving around the sun. Not > until Newton was there a really good physical reason to choose between > those systems. Galileo's observation of moons orbiting Jupiter was what got him on the road to trouble with the powers that were, and is a really good reason to think that everything revolving around the Earth was not a general enough approach. The church at the time rejected the notion that any movement was not geocentric even though the geometry of the movement was complex. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 11:28:21 -0400 From: "William Webb" Subject: Re: OT: Favorite movies of the VMS crowd? Message-ID: <8660a3a10705030828i22b65cf7iba5154dce1a51fdc@mail.gmail.com> On 03 May 2007 12:46:58 GMT, Doc wrote: > bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in news:59u2mqF2me4l5U1 > @mid.individual.net: > > > In article <1178188074.076568.257080@c35g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > > Rambo writes: > >> "War Game"- This wouldn't happen with a VAX :-) > > > > In the supposed environment involved, it wouldn't have happened > > with any computer. (At least at the time the movie was made, > > physical security for classified systems seems to have relaxed > > an awful lot since then!!) > > Hollywood has always had trouble with computers, they just don't > understand them nor the environments they're used in. > > Sneakers is a far better hacking movie because if you know a little about > crypto you can see that the story could be about an exploit for something > like SSH or one of its predecessors. The makers of Sneakers had the good > sense to be vague enough about the "hack" to keep the story interesting > and believable. > > I think I've seen three or four people mention China Syndrome, do we all > want the slogan to be "Your reactor might meldown, but at least the > computers will tell you about it"?. :-P > > > Doc. > Jakob Nielsen of usability testing renown, devoted one of his Alertbox columns to this subject: "Usability in the Movies -- Top 10 Bloopers". I find his newsletters to be well worth reading, and this one not only makes some significant points, but is highly entertaining as well. http://www.useit.com/alertbox/film-ui-bloopers.html WWWebb ------------------------------ Date: 4 May 2007 12:55:38 -0700 From: Ian Miller Subject: Re: reg:urgent req of hpopenvms Message-ID: <1178308538.294439.109770@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> I thought it encouraging that they are asking for the right sort of skills. Wether you can get someone that matches that list in the right location at the money they are willing to pay is another question. ------------------------------ Date: 04 May 2007 21:48:08 GMT From: Doc Subject: Re: reg:urgent req of hpopenvms Message-ID: Ian Miller wrote in news:1178308538.294439.109770 @q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com: > I thought it encouraging that they are asking for the right sort of > skills. Wether you can get someone that matches that list in the right > location at the money they are willing to pay is another question. Err... Didn't they just get rid of a bunch of people with the right skills? I seem to note that there's now a HoffmanLabs.com website where there used to be an hp email address. Thinking of our movies thread I'm reminded of the bit from Armageddon where the Russian cosmonaut beats the crap out of part of the shuttle while complaining about all electronic components being made in Japan. Mind you, my question as an answer doesn't address the "location" and "money" aspects of your comment, perhaps Mr Mathog's comment hits the mark on that. Doc. ------------------------------ Date: 5 May 2007 00:03:49 +0200 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: reg:urgent req of hpopenvms Message-ID: <463bc9e5$1@news.langstoeger.at> In article , David Mathog writes: >Ever notice how upper management and board level positions are never >exported to countries where they could be filled at a lower cost? But management is exported, too. Or haven't you seen the http://www.callcentermovie.com/ ?? SCNR -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.245 ************************