INFO-VAX Wed, 14 Mar 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 145 Contents: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: AMD's well may be running dry Re: CO2 was: AMD's well may be running dry Re: CO2 was: AMD's well may be running dry Re: CO2 was: AMD's well may be running dry Re: FTP Login (to remote site) puzzle Re: FTP Login (to remote site) puzzle Re: FTP Login (to remote site) puzzle Re: HP OpenVMS I64 Support Plans? RE: HP OpenVMS I64 Support Plans? Re: HP OpenVMS I64 Support Plans? (was: Re: AMD's well may be running dry) dry) Re: Oracle Standard Edition for VMS Re: Oracle Standard Edition for VMS RE: Oracle Standard Edition for VMS Re: output from cron ssh to VMS? Re: RMS indexed file structure questions Re: Shopping cart that works on VMS Re: VMS Client to Windows Storage Server x64 R2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 13 Mar 2007 11:18:35 -0700 From: "DaveG" Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1173809915.271752.100750@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com> On Mar 13, 10:46 am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article <55mc3uF25oge...@mid.individual.net>, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > > Damn. And nature did all that without man's help. Go figure. > > I don't care who did it. I don't care what's happening on Mars > with respect to global warming. I just want to do what we can to > aleviate it so all my great grandchildren don't starve. I agree with Bob. And when you go home tonight, shut your desk light off if its on. Dave... ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 2007 18:36:32 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <55o99gF267gi4U1@mid.individual.net> In article <1173809915.271752.100750@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>, "DaveG" writes: > On Mar 13, 10:46 am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob > Koehler) wrote: >> In article <55mc3uF25oge...@mid.individual.net>, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >> > Damn. And nature did all that without man's help. Go figure. >> >> I don't care who did it. I don't care what's happening on Mars >> with respect to global warming. I just want to do what we can to >> aleviate it so all my great grandchildren don't starve. > > I agree with Bob. And when you go home tonight, shut your desk light > off if its on. > Actually, I think all the people who believe so strongly in this should shut their cars off (don't sell it, that just moves the problem to someone else's hands) get rid of the TV, stereo, computer, video game, refirgerator, stove and all the other trappings of modern industrialized life. Oops. My mistake. It's me you want to change my lifestyle, not you. Kind of like Al Gore. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 2007 12:03:30 -0700 From: "DaveG" Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1173812610.650394.184780@8g2000cwh.googlegroups.com> On Mar 13, 1:36 pm, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article <1173809915.271752.100...@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>, > "DaveG" writes: > > > On Mar 13, 10:46 am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob > > Koehler) wrote: > >> In article <55mc3uF25oge...@mid.individual.net>, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > >> > Damn. And nature did all that without man's help. Go figure. > > >> I don't care who did it. I don't care what's happening on Mars > >> with respect to global warming. I just want to do what we can to > >> aleviate it so all my great grandchildren don't starve. > > > I agree with Bob. And when you go home tonight, shut your desk light > > off if its on. > > Actually, I think all the people who believe so strongly in this should > shut their cars off (don't sell it, that just moves the problem to > someone else's hands) get rid of the TV, stereo, computer, video game, > refirgerator, stove and all the other trappings of modern industrialized > life. Oops. My mistake. It's me you want to change my lifestyle, > not you. Kind of like Al Gore. > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > b...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include Perhaps every little bit helps. Perhaps. And I wasn't thinking about Al Gore, I was thinking about my kids and their kids. Dave... ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 2007 15:47:42 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1173826062.031724.265240@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Mar 13, 7:55 am, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article , > "Dave Weatherall" writes: > > > > > > > On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 01:12:30 UTC, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) > > wrote: > > >> In article <45f5e64b$0$16288$88260...@free.teranews.com>, > >> "Neil Rieck" writes: > > >> > Check this link for more information about what happened on Earth 250 > >> > Million years ago. > >> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permian_extinction > > >> Damn. And nature did all that without man's help. Go figure. > > >> bill > > > Bill > > nature isn't the problem. Nature was in 'balance' last time > > around and I seem to think that any inhabitants then would not have > > been too keen on what was happening. It may be that wamer temperatures > > are 'natural'. The problem is that the human action increases the > > imbalance and increases the likelihood of catastrophe if we continue > > as we are. No action because its 'natural' won't help avoid the > > effects. > > Or man could abandon his arrogance, admit he is not the top of > the food chain and accept that in the grand scheme of nature he > is an insignificant little gnat. > > When nature is thru with us it will sweep us from the planet just > like the dinosaurs and there is nothing we can do to lengthen or > shorten that period of time. > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > b...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include - Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - well Bill, God is going to come back before that happens and after 1,000 years, create a new earth ... now weither you are here to see it is another matter ... ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 2007 15:48:42 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1173826122.332197.307090@e1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Mar 13, 10:09 am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > In article <55nhomF25qft...@mid.individual.net>, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > >In article , > > "Dave Weatherall" writes: > >> On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 01:12:30 UTC, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) > >> wrote: > > >>> In article <45f5e64b$0$16288$88260...@free.teranews.com>, > >>> "Neil Rieck" writes: > > >>> > Check this link for more information about what happened on Earth 250 > >>> > Million years ago. > >>> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permian_extinction > > >>> Damn. And nature did all that without man's help. Go figure. > > >>> bill > > >> Bill > >> nature isn't the problem. Nature was in 'balance' last time > >> around and I seem to think that any inhabitants then would not have > >> been too keen on what was happening. It may be that wamer temperatures > >> are 'natural'. The problem is that the human action increases the > >> imbalance and increases the likelihood of catastrophe if we continue > >> as we are. No action because its 'natural' won't help avoid the > >> effects. > > >Or man could abandon his arrogance, admit he is not the top of > >the food chain and accept that in the grand scheme of nature he > >is an insignificant little gnat. > > >When nature is thru with us it will sweep us from the planet just > >like the dinosaurs and there is nothing we can do to lengthen or > >shorten that period of time. > > Well the dinosaurs were in the ascendancy for over 150 Million years whereas > the mammals have so far managed less than 65 Million. Our own species Homo > Sapiens has been around for about 150000 years. Homo Erectus seems to have > been around for more like a Million years. > If it hadn't been for an asteriod hit the dinosaurs might still be going > strong. > Unlike the dinosaurs there is at least a possibility that in a few decades time > we might be able to stop such an asteriod. Alternatively today we are perfectly > capable of shortening our stay on Earth. > > David Webb > Security team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 2007 15:49:59 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1173826199.255687.49040@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On Mar 13, 10:09 am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > In article <55nhomF25qft...@mid.individual.net>, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > >In article , > > "Dave Weatherall" writes: > >> On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 01:12:30 UTC, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) > >> wrote: > > >>> In article <45f5e64b$0$16288$88260...@free.teranews.com>, > >>> "Neil Rieck" writes: > > >>> > Check this link for more information about what happened on Earth 250 > >>> > Million years ago. > >>> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permian_extinction > > >>> Damn. And nature did all that without man's help. Go figure. > > >>> bill > > >> Bill > >> nature isn't the problem. Nature was in 'balance' last time > >> around and I seem to think that any inhabitants then would not have > >> been too keen on what was happening. It may be that wamer temperatures > >> are 'natural'. The problem is that the human action increases the > >> imbalance and increases the likelihood of catastrophe if we continue > >> as we are. No action because its 'natural' won't help avoid the > >> effects. > > >Or man could abandon his arrogance, admit he is not the top of > >the food chain and accept that in the grand scheme of nature he > >is an insignificant little gnat. > > >When nature is thru with us it will sweep us from the planet just > >like the dinosaurs and there is nothing we can do to lengthen or > >shorten that period of time. > > Well the dinosaurs were in the ascendancy for over 150 Million years whereas > the mammals have so far managed less than 65 Million. Our own species Homo > Sapiens has been around for about 150000 years. Homo Erectus seems to have > been around for more like a Million years. > If it hadn't been for an asteriod hit the dinosaurs might still be going > strong. > Unlike the dinosaurs there is at least a possibility that in a few decades time > we might be able to stop such an asteriod. Alternatively today we are perfectly > capable of shortening our stay on Earth. > > David Webb > Security team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University > > > > >bill > > >-- > >Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > >b...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > >University of Scranton | > >Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include - Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - so you were around when this asteroid hit? what happened to the dinosaurs is a world flood hit ... ever hear of Noah and the ark? ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 2007 15:52:04 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1173826324.191129.314570@e1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Mar 13, 11:46 am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article <55mc3uF25oge...@mid.individual.net>, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > > Damn. And nature did all that without man's help. Go figure. > > I don't care who did it. I don't care what's happening on Mars > with respect to global warming. I just want to do what we can to > aleviate it so all my great grandchildren don't starve. you cannot do a thing with the sun ... you could try praying to Someone who can ... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 18:06:09 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <07031318060952_2020028F@antinode.org> From: bob@instantwhip.com > so you were around when this asteroid hit? > what happened to the dinosaurs is a world flood hit ... > ever hear of Noah and the ark? Ever hear of Santa Claus and the tooth fairy? For the love of God, or as a personal favor to me, please take this entire inappropriate, pointless, vacuous discussion to a more appropriate forum. (Perhaps comp.os.vms.nla0.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 19:10:35 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <45F74B8B.2C2CC653@spam.comcast.net> bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > > On Mar 13, 11:46 am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob > Koehler) wrote: > > In article <55mc3uF25oge...@mid.individual.net>, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > > > > Damn. And nature did all that without man's help. Go figure. > > > > I don't care who did it. I don't care what's happening on Mars > > with respect to global warming. I just want to do what we can to > > aleviate it so all my great grandchildren don't starve. > > you cannot do a thing with the sun ... > > you could try praying to Someone who can ... I doubt (He) will change (His) plans just for our convenience. This planet has gone through climate changes before. This planet will go through climate changes again. "Not my will, but Thine be done." Get over it. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 19:12:46 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <45F74C0E.82DC5477@spam.comcast.net> Bob Koehler wrote: > > In article <55mc3uF25ogesU1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > > > Damn. And nature did all that without man's help. Go figure. > > > > I don't care who did it. I don't care what's happening on Mars > with respect to global warming. I just want to do what we can to > aleviate it so all my great grandchildren don't starve. The probability of that is close to nil. Climate change on that scale takes hundreds of generations, many centuries even, without cosmic intervention. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:09:11 -0600 From: Jeff Campbell Subject: Re: CO2 was: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1173820232_28111@sp6iad.superfeed.net> JF Mezei wrote: > Tom Linden wrote: >> 160 Billion tons of CO2 goes into the atmosphere every year, man is =20 >> responsible >> for about 6 of those >=20 > How many tonnes do plants reabsorb from the atmosphere ? Your statemen= t=20 > is meaningless without that metric. >=20 > About bio-fuels: they may not be the magic answer to replace oil=20 > completely. But they can certaintly significantly reduce oil use. If al= l=20 > US cars ran on a mix of 10% bio fuel, this would reduce by 10% the net = > CO2 addition from the US cars.=20 Combustion of ethanol forms carbon dioxide and water: C2H5OH + 3 O2 =E2=86=92 2 CO2 +3 H2O > That does not stop the problem, but it is > a step forward. And for every percentage that you reduce net CO2=20 > emissions, it gives you more time to find a permanent solution. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 22:20:30 +0100 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: CO2 was: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <45f7159d$0$184$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk> JF Mezei wrote: > Tom Linden wrote: >> 160 Billion tons of CO2 goes into the atmosphere every year, man is >> responsible >> for about 6 of those > > How many tonnes do plants reabsorb from the atmosphere ? Your > statement is meaningless without that metric. > > About bio-fuels: they may not be the magic answer to replace oil > completely. But they can certaintly significantly reduce oil use. If > all US cars ran on a mix of 10% bio fuel, this would reduce by 10% > the net CO2 addition from the US cars. That does not stop the > problem, but it is a step forward. And for every percentage that you > reduce net CO2 emissions, it gives you more time to find a permanent > solution. The only point of Bio-fuel is to lessen dependence on the middle east. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 2007 15:43:56 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com Subject: Re: CO2 was: AMD's well may be running dry Message-ID: <1173825836.742652.257350@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Mar 13, 1:57 pm, JF Mezei wrote: > Tom Linden wrote: > > 160 Billion tons of CO2 goes into the atmosphere every year, man is > > responsible > > for about 6 of those > > How many tonnes do plants reabsorb from the atmosphere ? Your statement is > meaningless without that metric. > > About bio-fuels: they may not be the magic answer to replace oil completely. But > they can certaintly significantly reduce oil use. If all US cars ran on a mix of > 10% bio fuel, this would reduce by 10% the net CO2 addition from the US cars. > That does not stop the problem, but it is a step forward. And for every > percentage that you reduce net CO2 emissions, it gives you more time to find a > permanent solution. glaciers used to be in California ... we had an ice age ... it was hotter in the 1930s then it is now ... this has been going on for thousands of years ... and it is caused by the sun ... solar flare activity will be at its worst this year and may knock out another satelite or cell communications ... There is nothing you can do about solar flares! Al Gore has you all losing it ... you can all peddle bicycles and that will not change the fact that the sun can cause climate change ... and the scientist who discovered the device that measures ozone levels said we know NOTHING about the ozone and that these holes coming and going may be normal activity that has happened for thousands of years ... calm down ... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:27:06 -0400 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: FTP Login (to remote site) puzzle Message-ID: Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER wrote: > In article <45f5bf35$0$11128$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl>, Wilm Boerhout writes: >> But alas (for Fred B) COPY /FTP has no READCHECK or WRITECHECK >> qualifiers because the ftp client interface wouldn't know what to do >> with it. > > COPY/FTP also doesn't support filenames with wildcards or list of filenames. The COPY/FTP command does not provide for parameter lists for the files, but I've certainly used it for wildcard copies. "COPY/FTP commonly supports the asterisk wildcard character (*) in remote file specifications." Something with the IP stack or ECO? -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:00:05 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: FTP Login (to remote site) puzzle Message-ID: <5c4e5$45f702e8$cef8887a$20851@TEKSAVVY.COM> Stephen Hoffman wrote: > The COPY/FTP command does not provide for parameter lists for the > files, but I've certainly used it for wildcard copies. Wildcard copies from VMS to a remote FTP would work. But for wildcard copy from a remote system to VMS, the software would need to issue MGET commands instead of GET. Not sure COPY/FTP is doing so. (it would need to be able to parse a foreign file system specification (n quotes) to determine if there is a wildcard operation in it). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 19:17:44 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: FTP Login (to remote site) puzzle Message-ID: <45F74D38.790554B1@spam.comcast.net> Rob Brown wrote: > > On Mon, 12 Mar 2007, JF Mezei wrote: > > > depending on what FTP stack you have, you may need to do: > > > > $DEFINE/USER TT SY$INPUT > > $DEFINE/USER SYS$COMMAND SYS$INPUT > > $FTP destination > > > > > > SEND chocolate.TXT > > EXIT > > $! > > As you say, "depending on what FTP stack you have" .... > > Check $HELP FTP. The FTP I have (probably UCX 4.1) allows you to > > $ FTP/USERNAME=FRED/PASSWORD=NERK/INPUT=MYTRANFERCOMMANDS.TXT > > My preference is still COPY/FTP. ...except that COPY/FTP does not support wildcards - must be embedded in an F$SEARCH() loop in script to do that. UCX: $ FTP/USERNAME=FRED/PASSWORD=NERK/INPUT=MYTRANFERCOMMANDS.TXT Multinet $ FTP/USERNAME=FRED/PASSWORD=NERK/TAKE=MYTRANFERCOMMANDS.TXT Both of the above will allow for MGET (wildcard support) as well as changing from ASCII to BINARY mode as needed in a single session. Both COPY/FTP and FTP have their advantages and caveats. Use what works best in the situation. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:58:14 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: HP OpenVMS I64 Support Plans? Message-ID: <3d518$45f70279$cef8887a$20851@TEKSAVVY.COM> Stephen Hoffman wrote: > The public statements around HP product plans are in the OpenVMS > roadmap. The roadmap is a nice document, but it is subject to change anytime, hence it is not a binding legal document. The roadmap on June 24 2001 was a nice rosy document. The roadmap on June 25 2001 was completely different with a focus on that unwanted port to that IA64 thing. Even if IA64 were a success, HP would be quite reluctant to commit to developing new IA64 based systems for more than 5 years into the future. They would have no problems promising support for 15 years into the future. And when you think about it, it isn't that hard to make such a support promise. Even if Intel/HP were to announce today that IA64 was pointless, they would still deliver Tukwilla, promised for 2009, but likely delayed until 2010. From that point in, IA64 based system might sell for another 3-4 years, and the 5 year timer starts at the last sale. That is 12 years. Adding an additional 3 years of support is not that much a burden. Look at VAX support, it is still alive , kicking and keeping VMS alive today. The big issue that isn't discussed however are commitments from serious middleware people such as Oracle for IA64 in the same time lengths that the current owner of VMS is willing to legally commit to. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 17:30:48 -0400 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: HP OpenVMS I64 Support Plans? Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca]=20 > Sent: March 13, 2007 3:58 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: HP OpenVMS I64 Support Plans? >=20 > Stephen Hoffman wrote: > > The public statements around HP product plans are in the OpenVMS=20 > > roadmap. >=20 > The roadmap is a nice document, but it is subject to change=20 > anytime, hence it is=20 > not a binding legal document. >=20 Not indended to be legal document. It's a guide to assist in planning for future features. "Subject to change" is all over the document. Try getting a 5 year futures commitment from any vendor on any platform about any product. Good luck. > The roadmap on June 24 2001 was a nice rosy document. The=20 > roadmap on June 25=20 > 2001 was completely different with a focus on that unwanted=20 > port to that IA64 thing. >=20 > Even if IA64 were a success, HP would be quite reluctant to=20 > commit to developing=20 > new IA64 based systems for more than 5 years into the future.=20 > They would have no=20 > problems promising support for 15 years into the future. >=20 Legalese is legalese - again, try getting a 15 year formal commitment to be made on a public web site from any vendor on any platform about any product. Good luck. > And when you think about it, it isn't that hard to make such=20 > a support promise.=20 > Even if Intel/HP were to announce today that IA64 was=20 > pointless, they would=20 > still deliver Tukwilla, promised for 2009, but likely delayed=20 > until 2010. From=20 > that point in, IA64 based system might sell for another 3-4=20 > years, and the 5=20 > year timer starts at the last sale. That is 12 years. Adding=20 > an additional 3=20 > years of support is not that much a burden. Look at VAX=20 > support, it is still=20 > alive , kicking and keeping VMS alive today. >=20 > The big issue that isn't discussed however are commitments=20 > from serious=20 > middleware people such as Oracle for IA64 in the same time=20 > lengths that the=20 > current owner of VMS is willing to legally commit to. >=20 Try getting a 15 year formal commitment from Oracle, SAP or any other vendor to be made on a public web site. As an example, Oracle could buy SAP or vide versa - do you think lawyers want the new company to be locked in to 15 years of support of all the combined products? Good luck. :-) Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:15:44 -0400 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: HP OpenVMS I64 Support Plans? (was: Re: AMD's well may be running dry) dry) Message-ID: chris wrote: > how long is the support for open vms on itaniums, is it true DOD wanted > support till 2020 for their applications? The public statements around HP product plans are in the OpenVMS roadmap. General discussions and particularly formal support agreements are not something that is particularly unusual, given the comparatively long life-cycles of the projects typical of military and large-scale commercial enterprises, such as building ships, new factories or new production lines. Folks expecting to have a project with a production life-time of many years will tend to buy spares and/or support contracts, and to factor in maintenance and MTBF and related over the expected lifetime of the project. None of this is news to you. If you're fitting some number of OpenVMS I64 boxes into some larger environment and particularly an environment you expect to use for ten or more years in production, you'll likely want to agree upon a contract for software and hardware and upgrade services. With HP, most likely. Almost without doubt, someone from your organization could receive the direct and undivided attention of a corporate officer from within the HP organization for the purposes of this question and of your particular project requirements. -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 13:49:30 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Oracle Standard Edition for VMS Message-ID: <1fe79$45f6e44d$cef8887a$19377@TEKSAVVY.COM> Sue wrote: > Oracle is currently working on 10gR2 version of Oracle Standard > Edition. Oracle is planning to support Standard Edition for the VMS > 10.2 releases via a patch, Sue, did you have anything to do with this ? Such as conveying to VMS management user demand for the standard edition ? Or did Oracle do this totally on its own? Either way, you deserve a virtual, politically correct big HUG ! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 06:44:13 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Oracle Standard Edition for VMS Message-ID: Hi Sue, Great news for VMS! Well done to all involved. Cheers Richard Maher. PS. Now if they would only give Cache Fusion to Rdb (or irony of ironies) give VMS their Lock Manager with (apparently? unlimited Lock-Value-Block size) then that'd be good also :-) I'm not saying replace VMS's DLM but the ability to shift all sorts of "real" data around the cluster (don't care about WAN) with the LVB is functionality that I, for one, find appealing. "No more BLASTing or Pinging hot pages to disk" - you gotta love that! "Sue" wrote in message news:1173797299.597840.257170@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com... > Oracle is currently working on 10gR2 version of Oracle Standard > Edition. Oracle is planning to support Standard Edition for the VMS > 10.2 releases via a patch, which will transform an Enterprise Edition > install into a Standard Edition Install. Oracle is targeting to > release this patch no later than the end of Q2CY07. The bug numbers > against which the patch will be issued are: > 5918466 (Alpha) and 5918474 (Integrity). > Check Oracle's metalink.oracle.com site for the latest updates, > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 20:38:35 -0400 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Oracle Standard Edition for VMS Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca]=20 > Sent: March 13, 2007 1:50 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Oracle Standard Edition for VMS >=20 > Sue wrote: > > Oracle is currently working on 10gR2 version of Oracle Standard > > Edition. Oracle is planning to support Standard Edition for the VMS > > 10.2 releases via a patch,=20 >=20 > Sue, did you have anything to do with this ? Such as=20 > conveying to VMS management=20 > user demand for the standard edition ? Or did Oracle do this=20 > totally on its own? >=20 > Either way, you deserve a virtual, politically correct big HUG ! >=20 And to sweeten the pot a little more ... Oracle has improved its server multi-core licensing strategy which will further improve Integrity platform licensing: (March 02, 2007) http://news.com.com/2102-1006_3-6163674.html?tag=3Dst.util.print "In a move designed to counter Microsoft's growing database influence, Oracle has quietly cut software prices on some lower-end servers using multicore processors, CNET News.com has learned.=20 With the new pricing for Oracle's lower-end Standard Edition and Standard Edition One products, the software company now is effectively matching Microsoft's practice of pegging price to a server's processor socket count and rather than processor core count. The move could cut the costs of purchasing Oracle database software by as much as 87 percent in some cases." Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 14:39:02 -0400 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: output from cron ssh to VMS? Message-ID: The Invisible Fire That Works In Public wrote: > I would like to run a program on a VMS system under cron control on a > Linux system. This works (usually) as intended, except that I cannot > capture the standard output of the program. > "Pseudo-terminal will not be allocated because stdin is not a terminal" This is an error arising from an interaction of Linux and cron and ssh. Based on what I see in your message and what I find on the 'net, this does not involve OpenVMS. I'd suggest you might want to try this same sequence on another box, and that you might want to ask this question in a Linux newsgroup. Based on what I find, it's a pretty common problem. ssh and cron don't seem to like each other. Usual recommendations are -f, -n and -t, IIRC. See , which has some references. For cron, I'd expect the no-password path through ssh need be working end-to-end, too. There's no password prompting available in cron. I might well ask why ssh is used to grab the time off a remote system, or if there is something other than SHOW TIME that is the actual target. There are far easier ways to deal with system time, such as setting up the OpenVMS box to use NTP. All of which implies you're up to something else here. -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: 13 Mar 2007 17:08:27 -0700 From: "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" Subject: Re: RMS indexed file structure questions Message-ID: <1173830906.966857.239590@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Mar 13, 2:32 am, JF Mezei wrote: > Some months ago, I suffered a disk corruption. I tried many tools to try to > rescue a few indexed files, but to no avail. Read the second part of my RMS_TUNING.PPT on the OpenVMS V6.0 Freeware [RMS_TOOLS] Read it again. Now. Since you had disk corruption we may assume that entire blocks, more specifically entire clusters of data are whiped out. What we need to do is 'connect' all seeming valid data buckets with the NEXT pointers together, skipping over bad clusters. - Optionally do so in primary key order. - Optionally accept any bucket which starts out ok, but set the NEXT- FREE-BYTE to just beyon the last whole data record. Valid data bucket are easy to recognize by the 14 bucket header bytes and the 11 or 13 first record header byte with its very recognizable RRV and record flag byte (2 or 6). Suggestions for a next valid data bucket are: - Whatever the next bucket pointer points to - The next adjacent block after the bucket (rounded up to cluster boundary for poorly pre-allocated files) - The next pointer from the index bucket above it. > The solution I have selected is to use a program to scan the raw data in the > file. Each record starts with a filename beginning with "OA$SHAR", and should be > preceeded by 2 bytes indicating record length that should be greater than 64 and > not 2 blanks. Maybe... RECORD / KEY COMPRESSION might make this tricky. The preceding RFA + a 02 byte for 'valid record flag' is more critical. > This **SEEMS** to work. However, there appears to be duplicate keys. > > So I have questions: > > When a record is deleted from a bucket, is the space occupied by the records > zeroed or doe the record remain there intact, with only the index areas updated ? It depends on Prologue 1 vs 3 and whether duplicates are allowed. For most file any deleted record is expunged, by shuffling down the rest of teh bucket and adjusting the next free byte. That means however that if the bucket held records A,B,C and B is deleted you micght actually 'see' A,C,C' where C' is the old C bytes still there, but no longer valid. The index records are never updated for a delete, as they point to a bucket, not to a record. > When a record is delete from a bucket, would records stored after the deleted > record in a bucket be shiften to the "left" by the length of the deleted record > ? (zapping the deleted record, but leaving a ghost image of the last record in > the bucket) ? Yes. > When a record is updated with a longer length, does it get put at the end of > that bucket with its original location left intact ? Or do all records after the > updated record getting shifted to the "right" to leave enough space to rewrite > in-situ the updated record with the few extra bytes in it ? Right shift to make rooom. > In other words, when I see multiple instances of a key in a file, should the > record with the highest relative position in the file be considered the most > recent ? Or is there no way to know ? Look at the first free byte. Use ANAL/RMS ... POSI /BUCK > If I have a bucket size of 30, does this mean that all structures (except the > first 2 blocks) in the file would be 30 blocks long ? Or would index blocks be > allocated with different granularity ? Each key CAN have up to 3 zones with unique bucket sizes, but rarely do. The 30 block everywhere is a safe assumption. The 2 blocks header not. Use ANAL/RMS/INT ! > I have found one area of what appear to be the index. It consists of the 65 byte > keys with no separators between the keys. Is there some "signature" I can look > for at the start of a block to identify this block (or seres of 30 blocks) and > an index block/bucket ? Use ANAL/RMS/INT ! For NO COMPRESSED KEYS The index bucket are filled from low to high with raw values, and the corresponding pointers are in an array running from high to low. Free byte pointers for both. COMPRESSED Index records look like 'Bytes-to-clone-byte, Fresh-Bytes- bytes, Fresh-Data-bytes, Pointer' Use ANAL/RMS/INT use my ZAP tool Too bad this is not a commercially critial file. I love to do this stuff for real money. Fame alone jut doesn't cut it. :-) Regards, Hein van den Heuvel HvdH Performance Consulting. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:11:42 -0700 From: - Subject: Re: Shopping cart that works on VMS Message-ID: Chuck Aaron wrote: > If anyone is running web applications on VMS and using > a shopping cart, can you tell me what shopping cart you > are using or might recommend? > > Thanks. Given that it's written in /very/ vanilla Perl, you might investigate quikstore.com We don't use VMS (anymore) but I bet it'll work You don't talk too much about requirements, so it's a crapshoot answering your question. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 02:46:28 +0100 From: Paul Sture Subject: Re: VMS Client to Windows Storage Server x64 R2 Message-ID: In article <45f6a87c$0$500$815e3792@news.qwest.net>, "Michael D. Ober" wrote: > "Paul Sture" wrote in message > news:paul.sture.nospam-041ED2.16194007032007@mac.sture.ch... > > In article , > > "Michael D. Ober" wrote: > > > >> I'm close to having the VMS NFS Client working with the WSS NFS Server. > >> Since I know this configuration has been asked about before, when I get > >> it, > >> I'll post the configuration for both ends of the link. > > > > As is happens, I have got the VMS NFS Client working with the OS X NFS > > Server. > > > > When you get the Windows flavour working, it might be useful to compare > > notes here, at least from the VMS side. > > > > After two weeks and tech support calls to both HP, who said it's a MS > problem, and to MS, who told me they don't support VMS clients, I > deinstalled the MS Server for Network File Systems (SFU 3.5 plus > enhancements) from our Windows Storage Server. Rebooted, and installed > Hummingbird NFS Maestro Server, which also required a reboot. Four hours > later my NFS link was up, configured, and running. I'm just glad I didn't > have to pay for either support call as I would grade the tech support I got > from both HP and MS abysmal failures. The Hummingbird tech support was > outstanding. > Thanks for the update. -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.145 ************************