INFO-VAX Fri, 12 Jan 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 23 Contents: Re: ES45 versus ES47 Re: Hopeless HP support infrastructure Re: JAVA sanity check please Re: LK461-AE Connected to Intel Linux box running X to Alphaserver DSL10 questi Re: LK461-AE Connected to Intel Linux box running X to Alphaserver DSL10 questio Re: Moving from Bind 8 to Bind 9 Re: ODS5 and hardlinks Re: ODS5 and hardlinks Re: On-shoring of VMS support?? Re: OpenVMS Licence for people in Asia Suggestion: SET FILE/SHADOW= Re: Suggestion: SET FILE/SHADOW= ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:10:27 -0500 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: ES45 versus ES47 Message-ID: <45a66174@usenet01.boi.hp.com> "jbigboote" wrote in message news:1168531305.301331.216830@p59g2000hsd.googlegroups.com... > >From what I've read it looks like there is no clear winner in > performance between the ES45 and ES47; specifically with a 4 CPU > configuration (assming 1.25GHz and 1.15GHz respectively), and 8-16GB > RAM. Of course the ES45s are cheaper than the ES47s, and cost is a > consideration. Does the performance change at all when they are > clustered (two or three nodes)? > How about long-term supportability? Any reason to think the ES47s might > have a longer supported lifespan than the ES45s? > The ES47 (EV7) probably has a longer support lifetime, as it is newer. I would use the ES45 if I had something that required high-performance programmed IO (for example some older graphics cards). Otherwise I would go by price or go with the ES47. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 00:15:03 +0800 From: prep@k9.prep.synonet.com Subject: Re: Hopeless HP support infrastructure Message-ID: <87vejdee0o.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com> clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: > BTW, I have just been told by HP Canada that adding the local domain > onto unqualified domains in incoming email is the expected and > designed behaviour. :-( hp Canada are full of yellow snow! Adding a default domain part is only valid when doing a name to address translation. Anything done to the mail headers must be fully under the control of the re-write rules. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:43:08 -0700 From: Mark Berryman Subject: Re: JAVA sanity check please Message-ID: <45a64d16@mvb.saic.com> JF Mezei wrote: > Could someone go to > > http://www.dslreports.com/tools , select the speed test tool, then > select the java based tool, then select any site and try to run the java > based tool (javascript and java need to be enabled) ? > > Can anyone succeed in making it run on a VMS 8.3 with JAVA 1.5.0 and > Mozilla 1.7.13 ? > > For me, the java app starts (the java logo appears, but then I get the X > on upper left corner an an indication that the applet failed. > > The last remaining "hurdle" was removed when I moved the user disk over > to an ODS5 structure. The java software resided on an ODS5 system disk > already. > > Going to a site to test my java version results in a succesful Java > applet execution which tells me my version etc. > > Also, I seem to be unable to get the java console to come up. (either > right key on the java applet area in the HTML window, or using one of > the menu optiosn in "TOOLS" at top of screen). > > If one person can run this speed test with a similar software config, > then i know there is something wrong with my system. But if other people > are also unable to run this app, then I know it isn't my fault. For me, it works fine using Appletviewer but does not work when run inside CSWB. CSWB complains of a missing class that isn't really missing. So, either I've missed something in setup or there is a bug in CSWB. I think I'll open a ticket with HP. Mark Berryman ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:33:53 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: LK461-AE Connected to Intel Linux box running X to Alphaserver DSL10 questi Message-ID: <9b2b5$45a6c993$cef8887a$21274@TEKSAVVY.COM> urbancamo wrote: > If I connect my LC461 keyboard to my Linux laptop, set the DECW$DISPLAY > on my Alphaserver DS10L and CREATE/TERM/DETACH back onto my Linux > X-Window server, will the OpenVMS specific keys work as intended, or if > not is there some configuration, or will this never work? Your Linux laptop is the one running the X server (terminal) and is the one accepting keystroke codes from the keyboard and translating them into X keycodes that are sent to the client (the VMS box running the app). So you'll need to configure the Linux box to recognise your DEC keyboard. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:26:04 -0800 From: DeanW Subject: Re: LK461-AE Connected to Intel Linux box running X to Alphaserver DSL10 questio Message-ID: <3f119ada0701111626n283e15ej22d5fea9a91cf493@mail.gmail.com> On 1/11/07, JF Mezei wrote: > urbancamo wrote: > > If I connect my LC461 keyboard to my Linux laptop, set the DECW$DISPLAY > > on my Alphaserver DS10L and CREATE/TERM/DETACH back onto my Linux > > X-Window server, will the OpenVMS specific keys work as intended, or if > > not is there some configuration, or will this never work? > > Your Linux laptop is the one running the X server (terminal) and is the one > accepting keystroke codes from the keyboard and translating them into X > keycodes that are sent to the client (the VMS box running the app). So > you'll need to configure the Linux box to recognise your DEC keyboard. This will help: http://mvb.saic.com/freeware/freewarev70/decxterm/ DECxterm V1.9 The procedure remaps the Sun Keyboard, IBM AIX PC type Keyboard, Linux PC type Keyboard and Tru64 Compaq Unix keyboards to mappings suitable for VMS This program is designed to run on a Unix machine, create a terminal emulator with VMS keyboard mappings and then telnet to a VMS machine. -- Dean Woodward =o&o dean.woodward@gmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:21:00 -0800 From: Joe Bloggs Subject: Re: Moving from Bind 8 to Bind 9 Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:11:27 -0500, JF Mezei wrote: >Does anyone know if different views are working on the TCPIP Services 5.6 ? > (this would allow the DNS server to serve different answers depending on >whether the request comes from within the lan or from the outside world for >instance). To add a data point. we've had views working well, for some time now. including 5.6. I forget when Bind 9.x was introduced for HP tcp/ip, but I see that serveral of out Alpha 7.3-2, tcpip 5.4 ECO4, are using Bind 9.2.1 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 20:55:02 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: ODS5 and hardlinks Message-ID: <45A6F886.3B5AA388@spam.comcast.net> JF Mezei wrote: > > That newfangled ODS5 beast is all foreign to me... I don't yet have 20 > years experience with VMS (this comes in may this year :-), so pardon my > newbieness in this matter... > > I've tried to find documentation that *really* described what hardlinks are > all about. Best I could come up with is in comp.os.vms. > > Can someone confirm that SET VOLUME/VOLUME_CHARACTERISTICS=hardlinks (and > the equivalent INIT /VOLUME_CHAR=HARDLINKS changes nothing in usage for the > disk (AKA SET FILE/ENTER SET FILE/REMOVE ) except that it implements some > form of usage count for each file so that a DELETE won't actually release > the blocks unless there are no aliases left for the file ? > > Is this the only difference ? Well, here's what I understand of hard- and soft-links. Perhaps someone more UN*X-savvy can chime in and correct me... As implemented on VMS, what we call a "hardlink" is really more closely akin to a "softlink" or "symbolic link". It's just like an alias, except that a link counter in the file header gets incremented or decremented (as appropriate). Unlike UN*X, however, there is no "chain of links" that can be followed to find all of the links to a file(-chain). As I understand it, were VMS to implement something more closely akin to a UN*X hardlink, we would actually allocate a second file header ("inode" in UNX* parlance) to point to the same (chain of) extent(s) ("file-chain" in UN*X parlance). In that case, DELETE (or the filesystem ACP) would have to implelment a check of all of the file headers to ensure that all the headers referencing the same (chain of) extent(s) get processed on an appropriately qualified DELETE command. VERIFY (ANALYZE/DISK) would have to be "smartened" to track this as well. > If one does a SET VOLUME on an existing disk, must one do a ANA/DISK/REPAIR > to build those number of links to each file ? Good question... Though, I'd expect that the default behaviour is probably to set a link count of one(1) even when a VOLUME is not SET for HARDLINKS. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 22:32:58 -0500 From: Bill Todd Subject: Re: ODS5 and hardlinks Message-ID: David J Dachtera wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: >> That newfangled ODS5 beast is all foreign to me... I don't yet have 20 >> years experience with VMS (this comes in may this year :-), so pardon my >> newbieness in this matter... >> >> I've tried to find documentation that *really* described what hardlinks are >> all about. Best I could come up with is in comp.os.vms. >> >> Can someone confirm that SET VOLUME/VOLUME_CHARACTERISTICS=hardlinks (and >> the equivalent INIT /VOLUME_CHAR=HARDLINKS changes nothing in usage for the >> disk (AKA SET FILE/ENTER SET FILE/REMOVE ) except that it implements some >> form of usage count for each file so that a DELETE won't actually release >> the blocks unless there are no aliases left for the file ? >> >> Is this the only difference ? > > Well, here's what I understand of hard- and soft-links. Perhaps someone more > UN*X-savvy can chime in and correct me... That would not necessarily be me - and if I'm wrong, then I hope that someone more Unix-savvy will chime in and correct me. > > As implemented on VMS, what we call a "hardlink" is really more closely akin to > a "softlink" or "symbolic link". My impression is that VMS's hard-link facility is almost *exactly* the same as Unix's. By contrast, symbolic links are specially-treated stub files that redirect s look-up to the new path which constitutes their data payload (a path which may start and end anywhere) - similar to Windows 'short-cuts'. It's just like an alias, except that a link > counter in the file header gets incremented or decremented (as appropriate). > Unlike UN*X, however, there is no "chain of links" that can be followed to find > all of the links to a file(-chain). I have never heard of any such 'chain of links' in Unix (and it would be IMO unreasonably expensive in terms of additional required updating activity to implement one - but if they had one, then they would have a mechanism for redirecting quota charges when the current owner 'deletes' the file but other linkers remain). > > As I understand it, were VMS to implement something more closely akin to a UN*X > hardlink, we would actually allocate a second file header ("inode" in UNX* > parlance) to point to the same (chain of) extent(s) ("file-chain" in UN*X > parlance). It is possible that you are confusing Unix with Windows - in particular, the Windows FAT file systems, which indeed have chained allocation structures (in fact, that's what the File Allocation Table *is*). I've never heard of anything like a 'file chain' in Unix. Furthermore, I don't believe that Unix has multiple file headers (inodes) associated with any single file (which seems to be what you are describing above - and which IMO would also incur prohibitive overhead, given how often file header/inode information gets updated): just like VMS, each file has a single header/inode metadata descriptor, to which one or more directory entries (using hard links) may point (though Unix may not support use of a file to which *no* directory entries point). - bill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:44:41 +0100 From: Paul Sture Subject: Re: On-shoring of VMS support?? Message-ID: In article , "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > Bob Koehler wrote: > > > In article <45a566cd$0$137$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>, "Dr. Dweeb" > > writes: > > > > > >>That is the difference, the native English English speakers have little > >>problem with Subcontinentals, Aantipodeans, Americans or Liverpudlians ! > >>This is a defining characteristic, and distinguishes us from Americans who > >>- > >>jusdging by the constant flak one sees in the US computer press - have > >>great > >>difficulties understanding anyone other than themselves. > > > > > > It's not our fault if we can't understand Texans. Folks from India, > > the UK, and Oz at least try to be understood. > > > > Australians don't speak English! Many years ago, at Princeton > University, an Australian faculty member asked me for some "types". Huh???? > > It turned out he meant "tapes"!! > There's a definite Cockney influence in the Australian accent. This reminds me of the first PDP game I came across - the RSTS "Guess the Animal" game, which attempted to guess what animal you were thinking of, with the dialogue like "Please type in a question that would distinguish a gnu from a bison" The question which got typed in there was "Can you wash you hands in it?" Aha - found the original source to that: http://www.animalgame.com/play/misc/ANIMAL.BAS > It has been many years since I was last forced to speak with a Texan but > they can, with a great deal of effort, be understood. The effort is not > usually justified! LOL. -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:41:31 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: OpenVMS Licence for people in Asia Message-ID: <45a6f550$0$49208$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> davidc@montagar.com wrote: > Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> Hans Bachner wrote: >>> Michael Unger wrote: >>> The versions running on OpenVMS (Alpha/I64) and Linux don't have this >>> limitation. They have limited configuration options, though. >>> >>>> (And it is rather large -- 26 MB.) >>> 22.5 of which is the .NET runtime. >> .NET ? >> >> Why use .NET for something that has to run on VMS as well ? > > That's only for the Windows port. > > As for using .NET, unless you tell VIsual Studio to not include the > /CLR compiler option, everything is compiled as "Managed Code" and > requires the .NET runtimes. Same C/C++ code, but results in either > .NET or regular object code. Same code base on other systems will > compile just fine into normal object code. ???? When you create a new project in VS you choose CLR or Win32. When you build command line /clr is not default. Somebody has actively to choose CLR. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 20:26:18 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Suggestion: SET FILE/SHADOW= Message-ID: OK, call this another one of JF's wacky suggestions... SET FILE $disk1:[vms$common.sysmgr]systartup_vms.com - /shadow=$disk2:[vms$common.sysmgr]systartup_vms.com So, whenever you make changes to either file, the other file(s) get updated as well (same as when you create a new version. But this would be at the file level, not the disk level. So you could have specific files on a system (or other) disk duplicated/mirrored on different systems in a cluster. This way, when you have multiple distinct system disks (to allow your cluster to stay up with multiple boot nodes), system management becomes much easier. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 20:59:37 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Suggestion: SET FILE/SHADOW= Message-ID: <45A6F999.808761E5@spam.comcast.net> JF Mezei wrote: > > OK, call this another one of JF's wacky suggestions... > > SET FILE $disk1:[vms$common.sysmgr]systartup_vms.com - > /shadow=$disk2:[vms$common.sysmgr]systartup_vms.com > > So, whenever you make changes to either file, the other file(s) get updated > as well (same as when you create a new version. But this would be at the > file level, not the disk level. > > So you could have specific files on a system (or other) disk > duplicated/mirrored on different systems in a cluster. > > This way, when you have multiple distinct system disks (to allow your > cluster to stay up with multiple boot nodes), system management becomes > much easier. My approach would be to have my system disk SYSTARTUP_VMS do only this: 1. Make sure the cluster-common files disk is MOUNTed. 2. Invoke a "SYSTARTUP.COM" from the cluster-common files disk. That way, I'd only have ONE cluster-wide place to maintain such things. YMMV, as always... -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.023 ************************